We also have a pre-made team. We love the intense challenges the many super pvp fleets present us. We go into those kinds of matches knowing its No Quarter. We know nothing is off limits and there is a chance we might get utterly rolled. If that happens, we get up and dust eachother off with no hard feelings.
Sounds like the fleet I am a member of. We do not dictate to each other what they should or shouldn't use. We only suggest, and it is ultimately up to the individual to take our suggestions or not. Whether it be private queues or public arenas. The point is to have fun.
We play expecting to get cheesed. No hard feelings whether we win or lose.
That the effects of that attitude of "anything goes" really does impact this community weather you like it or not or disagree with it.
There is absolutely nothing "fun" about flying from the respawn point and back into a combat situation only to find yourself grav pulsed, SN doff'd, then tric bombed over and over and over again.
Jungle or no jungle, we are not apes to grit our teeth at one another like a bunch of animals. Just adhere to the frustrations and show some empathy to those that express those concerns and frustrations.
Use your junk in Kerrat, in STFs, in private matches, but going around using that TRIBBLE on people in the queues is just trolling. You don't like it when it's done to you, so don't do it to others. Challenge yourself, not others that use the junk.
Fight the good fight should be our motto from here on. We all know what's messed up and what isn't. We should all convene together every now and then to discuss these things VERBALLY rather than hide behind keyboards, fleet tags, Dev negligence, and use harsh words and phrases.
That the effects of that attitude of "anything goes" really does impact this community weather you like it or not or disagree with it.
There is absolutely nothing "fun" about flying from the respawn point and back into a combat situation only to find yourself grav pulsed, SN doff'd, then tric bombed over and over and over again.
Jungle or no jungle, we are not apes to grit our teeth at one another like a bunch of animals. Just adhere to the frustrations and show some empathy to those that express those concerns and frustrations.
Use your junk in Kerrat, in STFs, in private matches, but going around using that TRIBBLE on people in the queues is just trolling. You don't like it when it's done to you, so don't do it to others.Challenge yourself, not others that use the junk.
Fight the good fight should be our motto from here on. We all know what's messed up and what isn't. We should all convene together every now and then to discuss these things VERBALLY rather than hide behind keyboards, fleet tags, Dev negligence, and use harsh words and phrases.
There is absolutely nothing "fun" about flying from the respawn point and back into a combat situation only to find yourself grav pulsed, SN doff'd, then tric bombed over and over and over again.
My Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit has been the target of a team gravity pulse/anchor focus fire. There was tricobalts being deployed as well. Our premade was outnumbered shortly after the match started. Our 5th team member, for some reason, was sent to the opposing team and we had a PUG player that left not long after we started. While he didn't try his hardest to help his team out, he did manage to kill a few of us.
That said, we did struggle in the beginning, down 6 to 0. We adapted to their strategy and came roaring back. We lost, but the final score was 13-15. Again, this was with the match being 4 vs 5 for 90% of the match.
Would we have liked to have won? Sure. Did we go rage on the forums after it? No. We still had fun.
In fact, some of our worse losses in a PUG match was a 0-15 score against Critz and Turkish RPH. Did we cry about those losses? No, we just realized there are a lot of things we need to work on.
And, frankly, none of you have any clout in dictating your way of playing to everyone else. PvP reputation only goes far with people who care. I want to play the game the way I want. My fleet members feel the same way. I'm sure the majority of the not-so-elite PvPers also feel the same.
In any case, with the new Embassy Sci consoles and the Zero-Point Energy Conduit consoles, I may end up getting rid of one of the one console slot I use to swap out abilities consoles. If you want Cryptic to do something about the ability consoles, keep encouraging them to put out more and more amazing passive consoles.
That the effects of that attitude of "anything goes" really does impact this community weather you like it or not or disagree with it.
There is absolutely nothing "fun" about flying from the respawn point and back into a combat situation only to find yourself grav pulsed, SN doff'd, then tric bombed over and over and over again.
Jungle or no jungle, we are not apes to grit our teeth at one another like a bunch of animals. Just adhere to the frustrations and show some empathy to those that express those concerns and frustrations.
Use your junk in Kerrat, in STFs, in private matches, but going around using that TRIBBLE on people in the queues is just trolling. You don't like it when it's done to you, so don't do it to others. Challenge yourself, not others that use the junk.
Fight the good fight should be our motto from here on. We all know what's messed up and what isn't. We should all convene together every now and then to discuss these things VERBALLY rather than hide behind keyboards, fleet tags, Dev negligence, and use harsh words and phrases.
INTERNATIONALPVP.TYPEFRAG.COM:62245
If you challenge yourself and that is your choice so be it. But if other players in this game have a difference of opinion when it comes to the broken skills; the ships, the consoles and all the cheese and TRIBBLE and cookie cutter nonsense that is now STO pvp... that doesn't give one group of people who decide not to run something in the public queue the go ahead to slander and devalue and demoralize the other group that might see the situation differently.
Even moreso it is very unwise to assume the very fleets who have made the decision to run whatever is considered to be cheap and skill less right now; did not also lobby NOT TO run what was cheap and skill less back in the day. I lobbied for 7th Core not to run Faw when it was broken. Other fleets did. We were trash talked. I lobbied to not run fbp when it was broken. Some klingon fleets took it to a whole new level. Ask Kedric from TRIBBLE. if what i'm saying is not true. I have always been against "the cheese". Its everyone else who has failed to meet the challenge. And if not right now certainly at some other time even if only for a moment in this game.
And then we have Devoras from TSI. Can you honestly say for sure he's not right in his post? Can you doubt with 100% certainty he has in fact been an admirable player and NOT run the same skills he's been killed by when maybe not running with a full TSI premade so much that it led him to become fed up? The same skills other fleets also said they wouldn't use but then used them anyway? Can you honestly say Devoras or any player is not right to be fed up with this whole notion about what is accepted or not accepted in PvP when not just one fleet but MANY FLEETS both well known and who play often; as well as fleets who are'nt so well known and do not play so often use this.... "cheese"?
And what do you tell up and coming fleets who don't see it your way? They've learned they can use these to their advantage. What if they use the "cheese" exceptionally well? Can you say with 100% certainty that in fact these players have 0 skill WITHOUT the skills/consoles/ships/doffs etc that they currently use either alone or as a full fleet team?
I can tell you I've challenged myself for a long time. I've lost members because of my choice to do so. And even then been **** talked by the "elites" who think they are above everyone else. I'll accept your challenge and encourage my fleet to do the same. So long as you don't slander or demoralize any players in this game who may not choose to also endorse your idea about what a perfect pvp should look like.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Regarding Pay-to-win consoles. . .I'm of mixed opinions. I might be biased by the fact that I fly a hit-and-run BoP build in PvP, which doesn't leave a lot of room for tanking or clearing sci-spam.
I absolutely loathe groups of players that throw around graviton pulses, subnukes (doffs or regular), and a couple other things. I don't loathe players who use subspace jump.
I guess my particular sticking point is 'skill'. Graviton pulse is a console that only requires a modicum of timing ability. Yeah, it can be cleared with Sci Team. . .which means escort, destroyers, and most BoPs are probably screwed, as it interferes with the very important Tactical Team setup. Subspace jump is a console that requires a little more skill, and won't help you much if you don't have an alpha to take advantage of the repositioning.
I freely admit that I use P2W myself. I use the Impulse Capacitance Cell and the Magnetometric Overload. The cell is only useful for escaping, and I basically only have it on hand because I fly a BoP, and I run into a lot of people who like to immobilize me. . .if I were using a fleet destroyer or a fleet escort, I probably wouldn't use it. The Magnetometric Overload is hardly 'OP'. It stuns and knocks the target back a few km. Fully specc'd, it can be very effective, as the stun can last 5-10 seconds. Players such as myself and Zirac use 'em. I don't have it fully specc'd, but I probably should. I don't use plasmonic leech or the siphon drones.
I don't believe in using certain P2W consoles. They make things too easy. I wish others would follow this sort of principle and just abstain from certain types of consoles. As it is. . .if I see someone using these consoles, especially in a coordinated spam-like manner, I just avoid them. One of the perks of doing all your PvP in Ker'rat, I guess.
My PvP toon is Krov, of The House of Snoo. Beware of my Hegh'ta of doom.
Nova Core made their bed, now they must lay in it. However, it is nice to see you are trying to clean up y'alls image a bit. Having premades running around with Voldi didn't help matters. You may need to use some bleach on those sheets.
Nova Core made their bed, now they must lay in it. However, it is nice to see you are trying to clean up y'alls image a bit. Having premades running around with Voldi didn't help matters. You may need to use some bleach on those sheets.
Hmmm. Is it so much the bit about cleaning up our image or in fact you mean playing in such a way as to be approved by other players? Kinda like not being able to eat your lunch on the big kid's swings unless you get the schoolyard bullie's approval first?
Hmmm. Must be nice to be so fresh and clean. I appreciate your comment. Yes. I'm hear to clean up the image of Nova Core. We will answer the community's challenge to play the way the community wants us to play. I will make sure of that. And when it is all said and done and enough schoolyard bullies on the playground have been dumped headfirst into the sandbox we will go back to enjoying our lunch the way we choose to. Not the way we are told to by bullies who think they run this game because they have extremely good players. But because it is our own odd egocentric definition of "fun" we use to past the time by until life calls us back in from recess.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Personally I find the most hyprocritical sitation/statement to be:
"Yes, it's ok to use what ever console/ship/Doff/Power combination you want."
"But it's bad to use it in order to cause grief in the ques/Open areas just to try to get Dev attention"
Because Your saying it's ok to use it. Just don't use it to cause grief.
If it causes grief, it shouldn't be Ok to use in the first place.
I've been slowly changing how I feel about "P2W" consoles. My reactions varies now depending on which consoles I run into, but there are 3 that still scream, to me, need some kind of attention for one reason or another..
Vent Theta radiation: Annoying, stupid, No counter to the possible Bug of how it kills ALL of a ships Crew at the same speed regardless of the size of the Ship and keeps it dead until you either A: Die, or B: Get out of combat long enough for it to regenerate.
AMS: Annoying, disruptive, and some times abusive on the verge of GRiefing. Clearable with SCi team, Scramble Only duration reduced with Sensor skill training.. Could use some rechecking between it and Sensor skill.
Aceton Assimilator: Needs some tweeking. It needs to be reduced to 1 deploy per ship per cooldown. Too many of these can lead to griefing. Can be deployed from B'rel-R Cloak and NOT reveal.
And yet, I have seen at least 2 of those consoles employed by some players and fleets of higher reputation..including Nova Core. The Consoles above I named are just examples of grief causing consoles, that when used by veteran, or more experneiced PVPers can cause major grief. Yet It's ok to use it in Nova Core land because you paid for it, so go ahead and use it.
It's the reason why I have been against Nova Core and SOB's ideals in the past, my self. And while there may be players I respect in one form or fashion from each fleet, and may even be friends with, I'm not friends with the entire fleet. And as long as they continue to play in such fashions, I doubt I'd be able to agree with much, if anything, gets stated here on the forums.
I mean let's face it, if you don't agree with using tactics that are wildly felt to be buggy, abusive, and causing of grief, then you shouldn't use them your self and try to give excuses for it.
Personally, I have been "Grief console" free for some time now. And I don't have any of the Doffs that cause grief either as far as I'm aware. But hey, if Nova Core and TSI say it's ok, it might be ok right? So who cares if we scare people away from KVF and FVF ques. As long as WE have fun is the point..:rolleyes:
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
Hmmm. Is it so much the bit about cleaning up our image or in fact you mean playing in such a way as to be approved by other players? Kinda like not being able to eat your lunch on the big kid's swings unless you get the schoolyard bullie's approval first?
Hmmm. Must be nice to be so fresh and clean. I appreciate your comment. Yes. I'm hear to clean up the image of Nova Core. We will answer the community's challenge to play the way the community wants us to play. I will make sure of that. And when it is all said and done and enough schoolyard bullies on the playground have been dumped headfirst into the sandbox we will go back to enjoying our lunch the way we choose to. Not the way we are told to by bullies who think they run this game because they have extremely good players. But because it is our own odd egocentric definition of "fun" we use to past the time by until life calls us back in from recess.
So The rest of the PVP community are bullies? Beating up on Pugs and new players tryin to get into PVP with 5 man AMS teams and all kinds of other dumb consoles seems more like bullying to me. i am sure it has them wanting to pvp more and more.........
I do a lot of PvP (under the name of my KDF cardassian pirate toon Burpoowheel) and i've meet Nova Core members a lot of time (and i've been killed by them an impressive number of time, and kill some of you some times) and I have to be agree with you on everything you told in the first post.
First of all, the Pay To Win things is irrelevent as a lot of universal console can be now obtain by Special Console Pack (at about 1 or 2 M on the exchange for most of them) and as dilithium farming (and yes we can farm dili in season 7) allow us to have ton of zen and buy alomost everything we want for free (it could take a while, sure, but hey ! What do you expect? Having the best stuff on your first day on STO?)
"Cheesing" (and every other "way" of playing) are not a problem neither. Every tactics, every ship, and evey build have its weakness and we just have to find it if we so want to blow the guy using it.
And in conclusion, i want to add that, as a PvPer (not the best around, sure, but not the worst either) I never had a single issue with any member of Nova Core. Each time i met on of them, he was polite, mature and smart. So yes, your fleet beat me almost everytime I encounter its member, but those are the best and more intense fight I have in the game.
PS : And again, sorry for my poor poor english
Cardassian "Pirate-Adventurer-Flirty" Captain Zerf "Bob" Burpoowheel
From the impressive Star-Sloop Obsidian Shrike
That the effects of that attitude of "anything goes" really does impact this community weather you like it or not or disagree with it.
There is absolutely nothing "fun" about flying from the respawn point and back into a combat situation only to find yourself grav pulsed, SN doff'd, then tric bombed over and over and over again.
Jungle or no jungle, we are not apes to grit our teeth at one another like a bunch of animals. Just adhere to the frustrations and show some empathy to those that express those concerns and frustrations.
Use your junk in Kerrat, in STFs, in private matches, but going around using that TRIBBLE on people in the queues is just trolling. You don't like it when it's done to you, so don't do it to others. Challenge yourself, not others that use the junk.
Fight the good fight should be our motto from here on. We all know what's messed up and what isn't. We should all convene together every now and then to discuss these things VERBALLY rather than hide behind keyboards, fleet tags, Dev negligence, and use harsh words and phrases.
INTERNATIONALPVP.TYPEFRAG.COM:62245
I understand your sentiment, but the truth is not everyone will challenge themselves to do the right thing. Just because I found your wallet and returned it to you with all the cash within it dose not mean I should 'expect' the same treatment from someone who finds my wallet. Your just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Real world police make sure that pay-to-win hotrod doing 95 gets pulled over. So what is true there must also be true in the virtual, that only enforcement can deter undesirable behaivor.
Personally I find the most hyprocritical sitation/statement to be:
"Yes, it's ok to use what ever console/ship/Doff/Power combination you want."
"But it's bad to use it in order to cause grief in the ques/Open areas just to try to get Dev attention"
Because Your saying it's ok to use it. Just don't use it to cause grief.
If it causes grief, it shouldn't be Ok to use in the first place.
I've been slowly changing how I feel about "P2W" consoles. My reactions varies now depending on which consoles I run into, but there are 3 that still scream, to me, need some kind of attention for one reason or another..
Vent Theta radiation: Annoying, stupid, No counter to the possible Bug of how it kills ALL of a ships Crew at the same speed regardless of the size of the Ship and keeps it dead until you either A: Die, or B: Get out of combat long enough for it to regenerate.
AMS: Annoying, disruptive, and some times abusive on the verge of GRiefing. Clearable with SCi team, Scramble Only duration reduced with Sensor skill training.. Could use some rechecking between it and Sensor skill.
Aceton Assimilator: Needs some tweeking. It needs to be reduced to 1 deploy per ship per cooldown. Too many of these can lead to griefing. Can be deployed from B'rel-R Cloak and NOT reveal.
And yet, I have seen at least 2 of those consoles employed by some players and fleets of higher reputation..including Nova Core. The Consoles above I named are just examples of grief causing consoles, that when used by veteran, or more experneiced PVPers can cause major grief. Yet It's ok to use it in Nova Core land because you paid for it, so go ahead and use it.
That's right. Perhaps in your fleet you force people to do what you say. But in Nova Core we don't. Does that mean we don't have ideals? Does that mean we don't have values or principles? We are people too. Both players from TRIBBLE. and Nova Core have been burned when trying to play it "fair". I don't mean to speak for TRIBBLE btw. I'm just including them because people trash talk them all the time. I didn't always agree with what they ran in the past either. But their A-team is smart and resourceful. I don't hate. I acknowledge they understand how to use a certain setup to an extreme advantage. If we are going to meet as fleet leaders of multiple fleets and discuss ways we can restrict certain things from use in pvp to improve the overall pvp experience of the community then Nova Core is on board. But we don't dictate to anyone in a public queue they cannot run this or that console because we say so. We can only try and sell them on the idea it devalues the PvP experience as a whole and therefore should understand why it is a bad idea to use this or that thing.
It's the reason why I have been against Nova Core and SOB's ideals in the past, my self. And while there may be players I respect in one form or fashion from each fleet, and may even be friends with, I'm not friends with the entire fleet. And as long as they continue to play in such fashions, I doubt I'd be able to agree with much, if anything, gets stated here on the forums.
Then obviously you weren't around when we would get smashed by other fleets running the "cheese". We were one of the first fleets to not run what was broken or use running it as an excuse to flag down a dev. You claim to be against both Nova Core's and TRIBBLE.'s ideals but it is obvious your words are misinformed and empty. We don't only have pvper's but pver's also in our fleet. We take pride in any way our members choose to show their commitment to the fleet. We have a charter. Mail me in game. I'll invite you to our website. We can have a chill and informed conversation over which I will show you our Charter if you are that interested in learning our "ideals".
I mean let's face it, if you don't agree with using tactics that are wildly felt to be buggy, abusive, and causing of grief, then you shouldn't use them your self and try to give excuses for it.
You cannot ensure every player who queues up won't run the "cheese" as much as any othe player can. We can make alliances. We can be friends. We can lead by majority example. But I don't ever recall you asking for our TS info and hopping on our teamspeak to try and discuss the state of pvp and how you'd like to encourage us to take a different approach to the way we pvp. Again. mail me in game. Back your words up. Lets talk and see if we can't come to an agreement instead of you lining up with everyone else and only talking negatively about what very little you know about the players in our guild.
Personally, I have been "Grief console" free for some time now. And I don't have any of the Doffs that cause grief either as far as I'm aware. But hey, if Nova Core and TSI say it's ok, it might be ok right? So who cares if we scare people away from KVF and FVF ques. As long as WE have fun is the point..:rolleyes:
So The rest of the PVP community are bullies? Beating up on Pugs and new players tryin to get into PVP with 5 man AMS teams and all kinds of other dumb consoles seems more like bullying to me. i am sure it has them wanting to pvp more and more.........
"So player A gets spammed by player B. Player B doesn't spam player A back but after being repeatedly spammed by player A in multiple matches as well as players C-Z. Player B decides to defend himself in the only way he has been shown best by the majority of the other players." I'm sure this hypothetical scenario is one in which many fleets can relate. What skills make pvp unfun to play are not appropriate for the queues. It is technically not the players job to enforce this but the developers job to see what is wrong with certain skills used by players on all sides and tweak them so that everyone is having a good time. PvP has been neglected for longer than many players care to remember. The rest of the community as a whole are not bullies. But players who spam because they were spammed first with no remorse. It doesn't make it right but it is a logical reaction. Nova Core wants whats best for the PvP community. If I can speak with fleet leaders from multiple fleets and we can all agree on what action we will take as a community to ensure the queues are more fun for everyone then we will abide by whatever course is agreed on. But that starts with communication. Not continuing to attack my fleet on what has already happened in the past.
I do a lot of PvP (under the name of my KDF cardassian pirate toon Burpoowheel) and i've meet Nova Core members a lot of time (and i've been killed by them an impressive number of time, and kill some of you some times) and I have to be agree with you on everything you told in the first post.
First of all, the Pay To Win things is irrelevent as a lot of universal console can be now obtain by Special Console Pack (at about 1 or 2 M on the exchange for most of them) and as dilithium farming (and yes we can farm dili in season 7) allow us to have ton of zen and buy alomost everything we want for free (it could take a while, sure, but hey ! What do you expect? Having the best stuff on your first day on STO?)
"Cheesing" (and every other "way" of playing) are not a problem neither. Every tactics, every ship, and evey build have its weakness and we just have to find it if we so want to blow the guy using it.
And in conclusion, i want to add that, as a PvPer (not the best around, sure, but not the worst either) I never had a single issue with any member of Nova Core. Each time i met on of them, he was polite, mature and smart. So yes, your fleet beat me almost everytime I encounter its member, but those are the best and more intense fight I have in the game.
PS : And again, sorry for my poor poor english
Thank you very much for your response. Your english is coming along very nicely. I always encourage my guys to say GG at the end of a match whether we have won or lost. I also have offered suggestions to players to help them with their loadout and invited them to our TS for a more detailed explanation on what might help them to improve. I'm sure you want what's best for pvp too and its nice to see another player who understands the answer is not in continuing to bash others but communicate and attempt to change a style of play that has reached this point because at one point or another too many of us have been "cheesed" over the course of this game.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
First, thanks a lot (for the kind things you told on my english skill).
In addition to what you've just said, I think that the main issue with pvp here is the same main issue we encounter more and more every day in any multiplayer game nowdays : todays people can't deal with difficulty.
If we loose = we quite. I see this behaviour almost everywhere now, and I just think that complaining again and again, and then, lefting the match wont help anyone to improve their "skill".
For those of you who complain on Nova Core (or any other big pvp fleet) tactics, try to think : why "cheese" tactics works so hard on you ? How could you protect your ship against that ? How to blow someone who have a god-like shield cap/regen ?
If you could question yourself on that, and re-think your build, you will, stepp by stepp, improve your gameplay and feel again the fun of pvp (the fun never died, you just miss it)
And if you think you've already try what you can, just ask to them (Nova Core, TSI, doesn't really matter) advise, they will always be glade to help you (as they help me in some question I had). But just keep that in mind : TSI, Nova Core etc... have accesse to the exacte same stuff you have, they do not have any "Q Continuum Covariant Shield [Cap]x42 [GodMod]" or "One-Shoot Quad Polarized-Phased-Anti-Proton [Cheat]x3", so, what they can do, you can do too.
Cardassian "Pirate-Adventurer-Flirty" Captain Zerf "Bob" Burpoowheel
From the impressive Star-Sloop Obsidian Shrike
You remembered my name :eek: I feel so loved. Your just peeved caused I didn't want to join your fleet. It was nothing personal, I just didn't like the logo of TRH, an image bunch of nerdy role players, as a logo in my vids. I'll admit that Task Force Spectre spoiled me, with a nice logo to put on my vids.
That's right. Perhaps in your fleet you force people to do what you say. But in Nova Core we don't. Does that mean we don't have ideals? Does that mean we don't have values or principles? We are people too. Both players from TRIBBLE. and Nova Core have been burned when trying to play it "fair". I don't mean to speak for TRIBBLE btw. I'm just including them because people trash talk them all the time. I didn't always agree with what they ran in the past either. But their A-team is smart and resourceful. I don't hate. I acknowledge they understand how to use a certain setup to an extreme advantage. If we are going to meet as fleet leaders of multiple fleets and discuss ways we can restrict certain things from use in pvp to improve the overall pvp experience of the community then Nova Core is on board. But we don't dictate to anyone in a public queue they cannot run this or that console because we say so. We can only try and sell them on the idea it devalues the PvP experience as a whole and therefore should understand why it is a bad idea to use this or that thing.
"Force People"? You make it sound like the fleet I belong to are bullies. Where we grumply growl and use harsh language to get our way. We simply have fleet rules, like everyone has their own set of them. One of the Fleet rules is No Universal Grief to win consoles in PVP Ques. The reasons for are also explained as to how we've run into those consoles and feel they are not necessary in order to win, and can eaisly, in the hand of a skilled 5 man team, cause harm to the value of fun during such a match.
How ever, considering the Latest Reign of Season 7, and the continue lack of interest from the Development Staff in PVP, I can't guarentee (since I'm not personally a fleet leader as far as I am aware) what the rest of the fleet does. You want that sort of information, talk with the leaders that still play Startrek Online (if any).
I personally have nothing against fleets and their own set of codes, rules or what not. It also doesn't bother me if one fleet is more strict then another. If I don't agree with their ways I won't join up with them. It's that simple. But what I do have a problem with, is seeming double talk. Where there's a claim of fair play yet only on your terms. Terms that can change on a whim from what I have witnessed. Now I could be wrong.. Which I'll get into later.
Then obviously you weren't around when we would get smashed by other fleets running the "cheese". We were one of the first fleets to not run what was broken or use running it as an excuse to flag down a dev. You claim to be against both Nova Core's and TRIBBLE.'s ideals but it is obvious your words are misinformed and empty. We don't only have pvper's but pver's also in our fleet. We take pride in any way our members choose to show their commitment to the fleet. We have a charter. Mail me in game. I'll invite you to our website. We can have a chill and informed conversation over which I will show you our Charter if you are that interested in learning our "ideals".
My words, dear Tripwire, don't come from a misunerstanding, but from experience of the past. I am against the Ideals of any who feels that using any and every griefable effect in STO PVP does not cause any harm. And is willing to use such grief tactics in order to ruin the fun of anyone else who trys to PVP. I have been in the Queues time and again in the past up until Season 7 where I have run into the Nova Core. And each and every time they ran the consoles that cause the most Grief: Anti-matter spread and Vent Theta Radiation in some form or fashion. In addition to that almost any other console, ship ability, or Lobi store combination they could get their hands on, despite how often the words of "This is an Overpowered, or grief causing effect, it shouldn't be used." gets placed on the forums, in Organized PVP, or any other form of media tied to the PVP in this game. Perhaps one or two individuals may have not used as much of the Griefable aspects of those items, but has been my experience that if you see Nova Core, you can expect such tactics. Same for TRIBBLE.
How ever, I am not an unfriendly indivudal. Despite the taunts, or other mocking words I may use in general channels during PVP matches, Ker'rat, or Organized PVP. I do enjoy Fair play and a good time in the PVP Ques. IF going to your Team speak, talking with your members, and reading your Charter could bring about some form of enlightnment, I'm sure I could be all for it. Not that I expect a friendly atmosphere towards me while being there, I'd be willing to do that since you offered. Because I have yet to have anyone in Nova Core make such an offer to me in the past.
You cannot ensure every player who queues up won't run the "cheese" as much as any othe player can. We can make alliances. We can be friends. We can lead by majority example. But I don't ever recall you asking for our TS info and hopping on our teamspeak to try and discuss the state of pvp and how you'd like to encourage us to take a different approach to the way we pvp. Again. mail me in game. Back your words up. Lets talk and see if we can't come to an agreement instead of you lining up with everyone else and only talking negatively about what very little you know about the players in our guild
Very well, I will mail you, how ever I do not understand how that would be me "Backing up my words." Unless there is something that you got from what I said that you feel I need to prove. Which I couldn't possibly understand what it could be. Because I haven't said that Nova Core is a group full of.. Rude, and unintelegent trolls who resort to grief tactics to win, for example.. And nor have I here in this statement as such that was an example, not me stating a fact or even an opinion, because it would be false. I'm afraid how ever I do not recall your @ handle in order to do so, so if you would be so kind as to provide it (Incase you haven't already and I've just missed it while scrolling through most of the previous responses) I will be sure to respond soon.
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
You remembered my name :eek: I feel so loved. Your just peeved caused I didn't want to join your fleet. It was nothing personal, I just didn't like the logo of TRH, an image bunch of nerdy role players, as a logo in my vids.
I'm sure TRH needed a failtastic carebear who runs awful and selfish builds in their fleet. :P
If you think you're ready to move on then do so. However, if you have the slightest chance to work things out one last time then do so.
Otherwise, Turkish RP Heroes extends its hospitality to have you play with us. If you like the way we do things, then by all means you can ASK for a fleet invite.
See? I said that. No fleet invite there for him to "turn down" lol.
Making him a popular tric bomber has made other fleets make him primary kill target... He better talk to Talon about run builds, he's gonna need it or a /logout keybind :cool:
"Force People"? You make it sound like the fleet I belong to are bullies. Where we grumply growl and use harsh language to get our way. We simply have fleet rules, like everyone has their own set of them. One of the Fleet rules is No Universal Grief to win consoles in PVP Ques. The reasons for are also explained as to how we've run into those consoles and feel they are not necessary in order to win, and can eaisly, in the hand of a skilled 5 man team, cause harm to the value of fun during such a match.
How ever, considering the Latest Reign of Season 7, and the continue lack of interest from the Development Staff in PVP, I can't guarentee (since I'm not personally a fleet leader as far as I am aware) what the rest of the fleet does. You want that sort of information, talk with the leaders that still play Startrek Online (if any).
I personally have nothing against fleets and their own set of codes, rules or what not. It also doesn't bother me if one fleet is more strict then another. If I don't agree with their ways I won't join up with them. It's that simple. But what I do have a problem with, is seeming double talk. Where there's a claim of fair play yet only on your terms. Terms that can change on a whim from what I have witnessed. Now I could be wrong.. Which I'll get into later.
My words, dear Tripwire, don't come from a misunerstanding, but from experience of the past. I am against the Ideals of any who feels that using any and every griefable effect in STO PVP does not cause any harm. And is willing to use such grief tactics in order to ruin the fun of anyone else who trys to PVP. I have been in the Queues time and again in the past up until Season 7 where I have run into the Nova Core. And each and every time they ran the consoles that cause the most Grief: Anti-matter spread and Vent Theta Radiation in some form or fashion. In addition to that almost any other console, ship ability, or Lobi store combination they could get their hands on, despite how often the words of "This is an Overpowered, or grief causing effect, it shouldn't be used." gets placed on the forums, in Organized PVP, or any other form of media tied to the PVP in this game. Perhaps one or two individuals may have not used as much of the Griefable aspects of those items, but has been my experience that if you see Nova Core, you can expect such tactics. Same for TRIBBLE.
How ever, I am not an unfriendly indivudal. Despite the taunts, or other mocking words I may use in general channels during PVP matches, Ker'rat, or Organized PVP. I do enjoy Fair play and a good time in the PVP Ques. IF going to your Team speak, talking with your members, and reading your Charter could bring about some form of enlightnment, I'm sure I could be all for it. Not that I expect a friendly atmosphere towards me while being there, I'd be willing to do that since you offered. Because I have yet to have anyone in Nova Core make such an offer to me in the past.
Very well, I will mail you, how ever I do not understand how that would be me "Backing up my words." Unless there is something that you got from what I said that you feel I need to prove. Which I couldn't possibly understand what it could be. Because I haven't said that Nova Core is a group full of.. Rude, and unintelegent trolls who resort to grief tactics to win, for example.. And nor have I here in this statement as such that was an example, not me stating a fact or even an opinion, because it would be false. I'm afraid how ever I do not recall your @ handle in order to do so, so if you would be so kind as to provide it (Incase you haven't already and I've just missed it while scrolling through most of the previous responses) I will be sure to respond soon.
@u.s.s.bloodmage I look forward to hearing from you.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
I agree with you 100% Trip. I look forward to speaking with you on the alliance TS. I'm from 32ND Vipers.
Agreed. Lets make it so.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
This post is a little dumb, his argument for defend the use of the p2w consoles is ridiculous, ur made your reputation, now deal with it, or if u want to "clean" your name, start to play like a man, good pvp'ers don't use that TRIBBLE.
Intrepid and defiant are not free. At least not for me, the silver player. So its p2w from my perspective.
Then ur perpective is limited. End-game ships area aviable via zen (or buy zen with dilithium, or buy the ship/modules in exchange that someone payed with zen), with that "perspective" the entire game is P2W, so go to fly a free tier3-4 ship...
The point here is that a console can break the game balance and ruin players experience, a ship don't. A little more of hull or a slighty better boff layout, or a little more of turn rate won't harm the game as a theta vent or a graviton pulse do. I prefer have a game vs 5 jem'hadar that vs 5 graviton pulse, u can slow down/disable/debuff a jem'hadar an remove that turn rate advantage that they have over other escorts, but there is nothing u can do against a team spamming theta vent, o using graviton pulse with maxed decompiler.
I`ll crosspost from another thread what i had to say about p2w:
Gah, ive learned alot in the past days regarding anything which has to do with payed consoles, and have come to one easy conclusion. P2W is the same as ones morality.
Player A finds X console to be OP, while Player B finds X console to be oki, but not console Y. On the other hand Player A finds console Y to be perfectly legit, and thinks Player B is stupit for beliving Y console is OP. And hence the forum pvp starts.
So comes the questions: Who is more correct? Who has the last say?
In essence none. No one is more correct or wrong than the other. Its hard to say which console is OP and which is not. Certainly there are some obvious ones which can be deemed OP by the majority, but how will that stop the minority from using it? Nothing, since we cannot enforce said "ban" properly without fighting among ourselves. And that to say is counterproductive. Heck there are even non-purchasable consoles/mods which all can aquire when you start the game, which is FAR more OP then the ones you pay for (read; Tric mines combined with DPB2/3). How will one grade them by OPness?
I myself have always been a proponent for everyone to use whatever they please, no matter how cheesey cause it helps them win. Why on earth other players wants to enforce SUBJECTIVE rules and regulations is beyond me, since said rules are hampering growth, tinkering with new strategies and tactics as well as creating an athmosphere there the old vets are always the "correct" ones. Maybe it too can be because other players doesnt know how to overcome said problem and hence invent rules to deal with them, hell I dont know. Now how arrogant is that? Who are we to enforce rules on players? Sure ive made complaints on certain payed consoles, but I overcome and adapt. I too know perfectly well that players who use cheese stuff is only capable of doing that to win, so that just tells me how crappy they are. Once we overcome that cheese the victory is just SO much sweeter, cause said cheese player(s) will have a hard time developing something new.
But in light of my last mess I will still be diplomatic and try to work out some deal with the rest of the community, so everyones wishes and concerns are brought to the table. Which console can we in consensus agree upon is a tad OP, and which is not. After we can try to enforce them socially and as respectful human beings as good as we can.
Yes, my 2 cents on the issue.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
This post is a little dumb, his argument for defend the use of the p2w consoles is ridiculous, ur made your reputation, now deal with it, or if u want to "clean" your name, start to play like a man, good pvp'ers don't use that TRIBBLE.
Ahh. Another belligerent response. I am not defending p2w consoles. I am saying that players regardless of what fleet they are from or how good they are have no control over what other players choose to equip or refrain from equipping on their starship. Fleet leaders can work honestly and sincerely to create a culture of what is in good taste and what is not. But this is a game. Our members are not on our payroll. And we cannot force the way you decide to play on to them. Also you assume everytime a Nova Core team runs into the queue we have each ship stacked 5 high with the same console. But that simply is not true. At one point a decision was made to run AMS to counter all the other AMS from everyone else running it. This is where the trouble started. I cannot change that. All I can do is ensure that moving forward things are done in the best possible way to perform exceptionally in combat while still leaving room for fun gameplay on both sides of the battlefield.
Then ur perpective is limited. End-game ships area aviable via zen (or buy zen with dilithium, or buy the ship/modules in exchange that someone payed with zen), with that "perspective" the entire game is P2W, so go to fly a free tier3-4 ship...
His perspective is fine. Your perspective only has one point of view. In your eyes everyone else is wrong. But that is simply not true. Everyone is pay to win. You either pay in time or grinding "tokens" and in the end still are required to purchase a product either with dilithium or cash.
The point here is that a console can break the game balance and ruin players experience, a ship don't. A little more of hull or a slighty better boff layout, or a little more of turn rate won't harm the game as a theta vent or a graviton pulse do. I prefer have a game vs 5 jem'hadar that vs 5 graviton pulse, u can slow down/disable/debuff a jem'hadar an remove that turn rate advantage that they have over other escorts, but there is nothing u can do against a team spamming theta vent, o using graviton pulse with maxed decompiler.
You are correct. A console can break game balance. A ship can break game balance. Players only equip and fly the ships provided. This is not a player issue. This is a design issue. So you want to bash players and fleets for using what has been intentionally designed because you don't like the fact that it's out of line of how the games mechanics should actually work according to who? You? me? us? everyone? You have no control over that. You can't blame another player for that? You can't dictacte to that player that they spent their money on the wrong console or tell them to dock their ship until its fair to fly it. But Cryptic can. And until they do the jungle will be the jungle... There is a council of fleets that are meeting tommorow to discuss what larger well known fleets and premade teams can do to alleviate the problem. But I assure you the best we can do is create atmosphere. We can create a culture within this "council" that will adhere to standards. But this council still will not control the fleets and players in the public queue who don't adhere to or are not of aware of such culture. We can try and educate them on why it is beneficial but if they refuse? What would you do? Bash them? Berate them? Tell them they are less than you? Players don't have power over the public queue. Get it through your head.
Again your assumption is that whatever fleet team you come across in question is knowingly stacking whatever consoles 5 high everytime you see them on the other side of a match. This is a perfect example of why in fact it is your logic that is at fault. Has it ever occured to you that in fact a fleet team may only have one or two of the said "cheese" consoles in question? Then what? What if they use one or two of those consoles with extreme effectiveness? Are they still a bunch of mindless spammers? Or is there more at work here? You act like these consoles are press one button and the other players respawn. It doesn't work like that. Even the cheesiest consoles still require a setup and an execution at the right time on the right target. Some fleets do this better than others both with and without whatever console is in question.
Again, I am not defending consoles, skills, ships, weapons, or whatever is clearly overpowered or not working as we the player would believe is intended. What I am saying however is that neither you nor anyone else on this forum or in this or any other game can regulate the use of such things in a public queue system. Private queues and tournaments are completely different. And for that very reason support the enforcement of strict regulation of whatever kind for the purpose of the match or in game event.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Dropping the phrase "Pay2Win" would help a lot. It doesn't really describe the phenomenon that people mean when they say it any more. (STO is heavily monetized, but many of the worst culprits are "free" and many expensive items are middling clunkers... Gal-X anyone)
I`ll crosspost from another thread what i had to say about p2w:
Gah, ive learned alot in the past days regarding anything which has to do with payed consoles, and have come to one easy conclusion. P2W is the same as ones morality.
Player A finds X console to be OP, while Player B finds X console to be oki, but not console Y. On the other hand Player A finds console Y to be perfectly legit, and thinks Player B is stupit for beliving Y console is OP. And hence the forum pvp starts.
So comes the questions: Who is more correct? Who has the last say?
In essence none. No one is more correct or wrong than the other. Its hard to say which console is OP and which is not. Certainly there are some obvious ones which can be deemed OP by the majority, but how will that stop the minority from using it? Nothing, since we cannot enforce said "ban" properly without fighting among ourselves. And that to say is counterproductive. Heck there are even non-purchasable consoles/mods which all can aquire when you start the game, which is FAR more OP then the ones you pay for (read; Tric mines combined with DPB2/3). How will one grade them by OPness?
I myself have always been a proponent for everyone to use whatever they please, no matter how cheesey cause it helps them win. Why on earth other players wants to enforce SUBJECTIVE rules and regulations is beyond me, since said rules are hampering growth, tinkering with new strategies and tactics as well as creating an athmosphere there the old vets are always the "correct" ones. Maybe it too can be because other players doesnt know how to overcome said problem and hence invent rules to deal with them, hell I dont know. Now how arrogant is that? Who are we to enforce rules on players? Sure ive made complaints on certain payed consoles, but I overcome and adapt. I too know perfectly well that players who use cheese stuff is only capable of doing that to win, so that just tells me how crappy they are. Once we overcome that cheese the victory is just SO much sweeter, cause said cheese player(s) will have a hard time developing something new.
But in light of my last mess I will still be diplomatic and try to work out some deal with the rest of the community, so everyones wishes and concerns are brought to the table. Which console can we in consensus agree upon is a tad OP, and which is not. After we can try to enforce them socially and as respectful human beings as good as we can.
Yes, my 2 cents on the issue.
I'd like to ask you a hypothetical question. You are fighting someone with this "cheese". You lose. Now. Are you still better than the player who beat you with the cheese? Or is the player that beat you with the cheese better than you because he played in such a way in which your best moves could not power past it? Is it neither? All this talk is subjective. TSI may of beat QEW two tournaments ago. QEW may of beat TSI last tournament held. Who is better? Neither. Both are extremely skilled and well seasoned fleets. Their tactics as a whole are different. Their philosophy on team tactics, team setup and team execution are polar opposites. But they both excel, adapt, and perform among the best known fleets in their own individual ways.
My point is just because a player has a console on his ship and uses it or a group of players do. It does not define their specific level of skills or their morals. In order to discover the morals behind those consoles you wouldn't look at the players using them. You would look at the developers who allowed them to be patched into the game.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
I'd like to ask you a hypothetical question. You are fighting someone with this "cheese". You lose. Now. Are you still better than the player who beat you with the cheese? Or is the player that beat you with the cheese better than you because he played in such a way in which your best moves could not power past it? Is it neither? All this talk is subjective. TSI may of beat QEW two tournaments ago. QEW may of beat TSI last tournament held. Who is better? Neither. Both are extremely skilled and well seasoned fleets. Their tactics as a whole are different. Their philosophy on team tactics, team setup and team execution are polar opposites. But they both excel, adapt, and perform among the best known fleets in their own individual ways.
My point is just because a player has a console on his ship and uses it or a group of players do. It does not define their specific level of skills or their morals. In order to discover the morals behind those consoles you wouldn't look at the players using them. You would look at the developers who allowed them to be patched into the game.
A better player? I lost and thats it. I could have done better, i will improve, i will adapt. Will i use the cheese? Maybe i will, maybe i will not.
As for the morale analogy, i still think it is like that. I would deem grav pulse to be cheese, others would not. I would deem subpsace jump to be perfectly oki, some others would not. So who is more "correct"? Maybe each team as you say have their setups and compositions, but just like consoles it could be considered cheese, as we know that tric mines with DPB is not p2w but still highly... annoying.
But yes, in the end its all Cryptics short sighted implentations which is to fault.
Co-founder of The Spanish Inquisition TSI - Cause no one expects it!
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Dropping the phrase "Pay2Win" would help a lot. It doesn't really describe the phenomenon that people mean when they say it any more. (STO is heavily monetized, but many of the worst culprits are "free" and many expensive items are middling clunkers... Gal-X anyone)
I kind of agree here. It really comes down to cheesy builds in the end. I don't believe vent theta is any more cheesy than tric dpb's are and ones a console and ones an ability. It all comes down to game balance. No one is complaining about people using the oberths lame console because its not out of balance with the game. If the bug was a dilithium bought ship, it would still be the most powerful escort in the game and therefore be slightly OP (or extremely Op in some ppls opinion). It's balance that we crave, and its balance that cryptic starves us of. It's been said many times that this is a pve game with pvp just kind of thrown on top. It's a simple conclusion that has repeatably explained the history of pvp in this game, and while there are many more dynamic explanations as to why pvp sucks so hard right now in this game, it's usually the simplest explanation that cuts to the core of the problem IMO.
Comments
We play expecting to get cheesed. No hard feelings whether we win or lose.
That the effects of that attitude of "anything goes" really does impact this community weather you like it or not or disagree with it.
There is absolutely nothing "fun" about flying from the respawn point and back into a combat situation only to find yourself grav pulsed, SN doff'd, then tric bombed over and over and over again.
Jungle or no jungle, we are not apes to grit our teeth at one another like a bunch of animals. Just adhere to the frustrations and show some empathy to those that express those concerns and frustrations.
Use your junk in Kerrat, in STFs, in private matches, but going around using that TRIBBLE on people in the queues is just trolling. You don't like it when it's done to you, so don't do it to others. Challenge yourself, not others that use the junk.
Fight the good fight should be our motto from here on. We all know what's messed up and what isn't. We should all convene together every now and then to discuss these things VERBALLY rather than hide behind keyboards, fleet tags, Dev negligence, and use harsh words and phrases.
INTERNATIONALPVP.TYPEFRAG.COM:62245
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well said!
Quote of the week:
That said, we did struggle in the beginning, down 6 to 0. We adapted to their strategy and came roaring back. We lost, but the final score was 13-15. Again, this was with the match being 4 vs 5 for 90% of the match.
Would we have liked to have won? Sure. Did we go rage on the forums after it? No. We still had fun.
In fact, some of our worse losses in a PUG match was a 0-15 score against Critz and Turkish RPH. Did we cry about those losses? No, we just realized there are a lot of things we need to work on.
And, frankly, none of you have any clout in dictating your way of playing to everyone else. PvP reputation only goes far with people who care. I want to play the game the way I want. My fleet members feel the same way. I'm sure the majority of the not-so-elite PvPers also feel the same.
In any case, with the new Embassy Sci consoles and the Zero-Point Energy Conduit consoles, I may end up getting rid of one of the one console slot I use to swap out abilities consoles. If you want Cryptic to do something about the ability consoles, keep encouraging them to put out more and more amazing passive consoles.
If you challenge yourself and that is your choice so be it. But if other players in this game have a difference of opinion when it comes to the broken skills; the ships, the consoles and all the cheese and TRIBBLE and cookie cutter nonsense that is now STO pvp... that doesn't give one group of people who decide not to run something in the public queue the go ahead to slander and devalue and demoralize the other group that might see the situation differently.
Even moreso it is very unwise to assume the very fleets who have made the decision to run whatever is considered to be cheap and skill less right now; did not also lobby NOT TO run what was cheap and skill less back in the day. I lobbied for 7th Core not to run Faw when it was broken. Other fleets did. We were trash talked. I lobbied to not run fbp when it was broken. Some klingon fleets took it to a whole new level. Ask Kedric from TRIBBLE. if what i'm saying is not true. I have always been against "the cheese". Its everyone else who has failed to meet the challenge. And if not right now certainly at some other time even if only for a moment in this game.
And then we have Devoras from TSI. Can you honestly say for sure he's not right in his post? Can you doubt with 100% certainty he has in fact been an admirable player and NOT run the same skills he's been killed by when maybe not running with a full TSI premade so much that it led him to become fed up? The same skills other fleets also said they wouldn't use but then used them anyway? Can you honestly say Devoras or any player is not right to be fed up with this whole notion about what is accepted or not accepted in PvP when not just one fleet but MANY FLEETS both well known and who play often; as well as fleets who are'nt so well known and do not play so often use this.... "cheese"?
And what do you tell up and coming fleets who don't see it your way? They've learned they can use these to their advantage. What if they use the "cheese" exceptionally well? Can you say with 100% certainty that in fact these players have 0 skill WITHOUT the skills/consoles/ships/doffs etc that they currently use either alone or as a full fleet team?
I can tell you I've challenged myself for a long time. I've lost members because of my choice to do so. And even then been **** talked by the "elites" who think they are above everyone else. I'll accept your challenge and encourage my fleet to do the same. So long as you don't slander or demoralize any players in this game who may not choose to also endorse your idea about what a perfect pvp should look like.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
I absolutely loathe groups of players that throw around graviton pulses, subnukes (doffs or regular), and a couple other things. I don't loathe players who use subspace jump.
I guess my particular sticking point is 'skill'. Graviton pulse is a console that only requires a modicum of timing ability. Yeah, it can be cleared with Sci Team. . .which means escort, destroyers, and most BoPs are probably screwed, as it interferes with the very important Tactical Team setup. Subspace jump is a console that requires a little more skill, and won't help you much if you don't have an alpha to take advantage of the repositioning.
I freely admit that I use P2W myself. I use the Impulse Capacitance Cell and the Magnetometric Overload. The cell is only useful for escaping, and I basically only have it on hand because I fly a BoP, and I run into a lot of people who like to immobilize me. . .if I were using a fleet destroyer or a fleet escort, I probably wouldn't use it. The Magnetometric Overload is hardly 'OP'. It stuns and knocks the target back a few km. Fully specc'd, it can be very effective, as the stun can last 5-10 seconds. Players such as myself and Zirac use 'em. I don't have it fully specc'd, but I probably should. I don't use plasmonic leech or the siphon drones.
I don't believe in using certain P2W consoles. They make things too easy. I wish others would follow this sort of principle and just abstain from certain types of consoles. As it is. . .if I see someone using these consoles, especially in a coordinated spam-like manner, I just avoid them. One of the perks of doing all your PvP in Ker'rat, I guess.
@DevolvedOne
Hmmm. Is it so much the bit about cleaning up our image or in fact you mean playing in such a way as to be approved by other players? Kinda like not being able to eat your lunch on the big kid's swings unless you get the schoolyard bullie's approval first?
Hmmm. Must be nice to be so fresh and clean. I appreciate your comment. Yes. I'm hear to clean up the image of Nova Core. We will answer the community's challenge to play the way the community wants us to play. I will make sure of that. And when it is all said and done and enough schoolyard bullies on the playground have been dumped headfirst into the sandbox we will go back to enjoying our lunch the way we choose to. Not the way we are told to by bullies who think they run this game because they have extremely good players. But because it is our own odd egocentric definition of "fun" we use to past the time by until life calls us back in from recess.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
"Yes, it's ok to use what ever console/ship/Doff/Power combination you want."
"But it's bad to use it in order to cause grief in the ques/Open areas just to try to get Dev attention"
Because Your saying it's ok to use it. Just don't use it to cause grief.
If it causes grief, it shouldn't be Ok to use in the first place.
I've been slowly changing how I feel about "P2W" consoles. My reactions varies now depending on which consoles I run into, but there are 3 that still scream, to me, need some kind of attention for one reason or another..
Vent Theta radiation: Annoying, stupid, No counter to the possible Bug of how it kills ALL of a ships Crew at the same speed regardless of the size of the Ship and keeps it dead until you either A: Die, or B: Get out of combat long enough for it to regenerate.
AMS: Annoying, disruptive, and some times abusive on the verge of GRiefing. Clearable with SCi team, Scramble Only duration reduced with Sensor skill training.. Could use some rechecking between it and Sensor skill.
Aceton Assimilator: Needs some tweeking. It needs to be reduced to 1 deploy per ship per cooldown. Too many of these can lead to griefing. Can be deployed from B'rel-R Cloak and NOT reveal.
And yet, I have seen at least 2 of those consoles employed by some players and fleets of higher reputation..including Nova Core. The Consoles above I named are just examples of grief causing consoles, that when used by veteran, or more experneiced PVPers can cause major grief. Yet It's ok to use it in Nova Core land because you paid for it, so go ahead and use it.
It's the reason why I have been against Nova Core and SOB's ideals in the past, my self. And while there may be players I respect in one form or fashion from each fleet, and may even be friends with, I'm not friends with the entire fleet. And as long as they continue to play in such fashions, I doubt I'd be able to agree with much, if anything, gets stated here on the forums.
I mean let's face it, if you don't agree with using tactics that are wildly felt to be buggy, abusive, and causing of grief, then you shouldn't use them your self and try to give excuses for it.
Personally, I have been "Grief console" free for some time now. And I don't have any of the Doffs that cause grief either as far as I'm aware. But hey, if Nova Core and TSI say it's ok, it might be ok right? So who cares if we scare people away from KVF and FVF ques. As long as WE have fun is the point..:rolleyes:
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
So The rest of the PVP community are bullies? Beating up on Pugs and new players tryin to get into PVP with 5 man AMS teams and all kinds of other dumb consoles seems more like bullying to me. i am sure it has them wanting to pvp more and more.........
Quote of the week:
First of all, the Pay To Win things is irrelevent as a lot of universal console can be now obtain by Special Console Pack (at about 1 or 2 M on the exchange for most of them) and as dilithium farming (and yes we can farm dili in season 7) allow us to have ton of zen and buy alomost everything we want for free (it could take a while, sure, but hey ! What do you expect? Having the best stuff on your first day on STO?)
"Cheesing" (and every other "way" of playing) are not a problem neither. Every tactics, every ship, and evey build have its weakness and we just have to find it if we so want to blow the guy using it.
And in conclusion, i want to add that, as a PvPer (not the best around, sure, but not the worst either) I never had a single issue with any member of Nova Core. Each time i met on of them, he was polite, mature and smart. So yes, your fleet beat me almost everytime I encounter its member, but those are the best and more intense fight I have in the game.
PS : And again, sorry for my poor poor english
From the impressive Star-Sloop Obsidian Shrike
I understand your sentiment, but the truth is not everyone will challenge themselves to do the right thing. Just because I found your wallet and returned it to you with all the cash within it dose not mean I should 'expect' the same treatment from someone who finds my wallet. Your just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Real world police make sure that pay-to-win hotrod doing 95 gets pulled over. So what is true there must also be true in the virtual, that only enforcement can deter undesirable behaivor.
"So player A gets spammed by player B. Player B doesn't spam player A back but after being repeatedly spammed by player A in multiple matches as well as players C-Z. Player B decides to defend himself in the only way he has been shown best by the majority of the other players." I'm sure this hypothetical scenario is one in which many fleets can relate. What skills make pvp unfun to play are not appropriate for the queues. It is technically not the players job to enforce this but the developers job to see what is wrong with certain skills used by players on all sides and tweak them so that everyone is having a good time. PvP has been neglected for longer than many players care to remember. The rest of the community as a whole are not bullies. But players who spam because they were spammed first with no remorse. It doesn't make it right but it is a logical reaction. Nova Core wants whats best for the PvP community. If I can speak with fleet leaders from multiple fleets and we can all agree on what action we will take as a community to ensure the queues are more fun for everyone then we will abide by whatever course is agreed on. But that starts with communication. Not continuing to attack my fleet on what has already happened in the past.
Thank you very much for your response. Your english is coming along very nicely. I always encourage my guys to say GG at the end of a match whether we have won or lost. I also have offered suggestions to players to help them with their loadout and invited them to our TS for a more detailed explanation on what might help them to improve. I'm sure you want what's best for pvp too and its nice to see another player who understands the answer is not in continuing to bash others but communicate and attempt to change a style of play that has reached this point because at one point or another too many of us have been "cheesed" over the course of this game.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
In addition to what you've just said, I think that the main issue with pvp here is the same main issue we encounter more and more every day in any multiplayer game nowdays : todays people can't deal with difficulty.
If we loose = we quite. I see this behaviour almost everywhere now, and I just think that complaining again and again, and then, lefting the match wont help anyone to improve their "skill".
For those of you who complain on Nova Core (or any other big pvp fleet) tactics, try to think : why "cheese" tactics works so hard on you ? How could you protect your ship against that ? How to blow someone who have a god-like shield cap/regen ?
If you could question yourself on that, and re-think your build, you will, stepp by stepp, improve your gameplay and feel again the fun of pvp (the fun never died, you just miss it)
And if you think you've already try what you can, just ask to them (Nova Core, TSI, doesn't really matter) advise, they will always be glade to help you (as they help me in some question I had). But just keep that in mind : TSI, Nova Core etc... have accesse to the exacte same stuff you have, they do not have any "Q Continuum Covariant Shield [Cap]x42 [GodMod]" or "One-Shoot Quad Polarized-Phased-Anti-Proton [Cheat]x3", so, what they can do, you can do too.
From the impressive Star-Sloop Obsidian Shrike
You remembered my name :eek: I feel so loved. Your just peeved caused I didn't want to join your fleet. It was nothing personal, I just didn't like the logo of TRH, an image bunch of nerdy role players, as a logo in my vids. I'll admit that Task Force Spectre spoiled me, with a nice logo to put on my vids.
@oridjerraa Post#31 @shookyang post #33 @tripwire690 post #37
Well said!!!
@bblbrx post #46
Damn!!! And The truth shall set you free!!! Thank You!!!
"Force People"? You make it sound like the fleet I belong to are bullies. Where we grumply growl and use harsh language to get our way. We simply have fleet rules, like everyone has their own set of them. One of the Fleet rules is No Universal Grief to win consoles in PVP Ques. The reasons for are also explained as to how we've run into those consoles and feel they are not necessary in order to win, and can eaisly, in the hand of a skilled 5 man team, cause harm to the value of fun during such a match.
How ever, considering the Latest Reign of Season 7, and the continue lack of interest from the Development Staff in PVP, I can't guarentee (since I'm not personally a fleet leader as far as I am aware) what the rest of the fleet does. You want that sort of information, talk with the leaders that still play Startrek Online (if any).
I personally have nothing against fleets and their own set of codes, rules or what not. It also doesn't bother me if one fleet is more strict then another. If I don't agree with their ways I won't join up with them. It's that simple. But what I do have a problem with, is seeming double talk. Where there's a claim of fair play yet only on your terms. Terms that can change on a whim from what I have witnessed. Now I could be wrong.. Which I'll get into later.
My words, dear Tripwire, don't come from a misunerstanding, but from experience of the past. I am against the Ideals of any who feels that using any and every griefable effect in STO PVP does not cause any harm. And is willing to use such grief tactics in order to ruin the fun of anyone else who trys to PVP. I have been in the Queues time and again in the past up until Season 7 where I have run into the Nova Core. And each and every time they ran the consoles that cause the most Grief: Anti-matter spread and Vent Theta Radiation in some form or fashion. In addition to that almost any other console, ship ability, or Lobi store combination they could get their hands on, despite how often the words of "This is an Overpowered, or grief causing effect, it shouldn't be used." gets placed on the forums, in Organized PVP, or any other form of media tied to the PVP in this game. Perhaps one or two individuals may have not used as much of the Griefable aspects of those items, but has been my experience that if you see Nova Core, you can expect such tactics. Same for TRIBBLE.
How ever, I am not an unfriendly indivudal. Despite the taunts, or other mocking words I may use in general channels during PVP matches, Ker'rat, or Organized PVP. I do enjoy Fair play and a good time in the PVP Ques. IF going to your Team speak, talking with your members, and reading your Charter could bring about some form of enlightnment, I'm sure I could be all for it. Not that I expect a friendly atmosphere towards me while being there, I'd be willing to do that since you offered. Because I have yet to have anyone in Nova Core make such an offer to me in the past.
Very well, I will mail you, how ever I do not understand how that would be me "Backing up my words." Unless there is something that you got from what I said that you feel I need to prove. Which I couldn't possibly understand what it could be. Because I haven't said that Nova Core is a group full of.. Rude, and unintelegent trolls who resort to grief tactics to win, for example.. And nor have I here in this statement as such that was an example, not me stating a fact or even an opinion, because it would be false. I'm afraid how ever I do not recall your @ handle in order to do so, so if you would be so kind as to provide it (Incase you haven't already and I've just missed it while scrolling through most of the previous responses) I will be sure to respond soon.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I'm sure TRH needed a failtastic carebear who runs awful and selfish builds in their fleet. :P
Haha! Yeah that dude has quite an imagination lol. Maybe we invited him to our teamspeak or something in order to straighten out his build...
We actually only invited him to play on our TS and see how it goes. He called this a fleet invite lol.
Here's proof:
See? I said that. No fleet invite there for him to "turn down" lol.
Making him a popular tric bomber has made other fleets make him primary kill target... He better talk to Talon about run builds, he's gonna need it or a /logout keybind :cool:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
@u.s.s.bloodmage I look forward to hearing from you.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Agreed. Lets make it so.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
Poor soul didnt have time to log out.
Then ur perpective is limited. End-game ships area aviable via zen (or buy zen with dilithium, or buy the ship/modules in exchange that someone payed with zen), with that "perspective" the entire game is P2W, so go to fly a free tier3-4 ship...
The point here is that a console can break the game balance and ruin players experience, a ship don't. A little more of hull or a slighty better boff layout, or a little more of turn rate won't harm the game as a theta vent or a graviton pulse do. I prefer have a game vs 5 jem'hadar that vs 5 graviton pulse, u can slow down/disable/debuff a jem'hadar an remove that turn rate advantage that they have over other escorts, but there is nothing u can do against a team spamming theta vent, o using graviton pulse with maxed decompiler.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
HE can easily deal with Theta. Grav pulse is a little more annoying since not all builds slot Eng Team.
Gah, ive learned alot in the past days regarding anything which has to do with payed consoles, and have come to one easy conclusion. P2W is the same as ones morality.
Player A finds X console to be OP, while Player B finds X console to be oki, but not console Y. On the other hand Player A finds console Y to be perfectly legit, and thinks Player B is stupit for beliving Y console is OP. And hence the forum pvp starts.
So comes the questions: Who is more correct? Who has the last say?
In essence none. No one is more correct or wrong than the other. Its hard to say which console is OP and which is not. Certainly there are some obvious ones which can be deemed OP by the majority, but how will that stop the minority from using it? Nothing, since we cannot enforce said "ban" properly without fighting among ourselves. And that to say is counterproductive. Heck there are even non-purchasable consoles/mods which all can aquire when you start the game, which is FAR more OP then the ones you pay for (read; Tric mines combined with DPB2/3). How will one grade them by OPness?
I myself have always been a proponent for everyone to use whatever they please, no matter how cheesey cause it helps them win. Why on earth other players wants to enforce SUBJECTIVE rules and regulations is beyond me, since said rules are hampering growth, tinkering with new strategies and tactics as well as creating an athmosphere there the old vets are always the "correct" ones. Maybe it too can be because other players doesnt know how to overcome said problem and hence invent rules to deal with them, hell I dont know. Now how arrogant is that? Who are we to enforce rules on players? Sure ive made complaints on certain payed consoles, but I overcome and adapt. I too know perfectly well that players who use cheese stuff is only capable of doing that to win, so that just tells me how crappy they are. Once we overcome that cheese the victory is just SO much sweeter, cause said cheese player(s) will have a hard time developing something new.
But in light of my last mess I will still be diplomatic and try to work out some deal with the rest of the community, so everyones wishes and concerns are brought to the table. Which console can we in consensus agree upon is a tad OP, and which is not. After we can try to enforce them socially and as respectful human beings as good as we can.
Yes, my 2 cents on the issue.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
Again your assumption is that whatever fleet team you come across in question is knowingly stacking whatever consoles 5 high everytime you see them on the other side of a match. This is a perfect example of why in fact it is your logic that is at fault. Has it ever occured to you that in fact a fleet team may only have one or two of the said "cheese" consoles in question? Then what? What if they use one or two of those consoles with extreme effectiveness? Are they still a bunch of mindless spammers? Or is there more at work here? You act like these consoles are press one button and the other players respawn. It doesn't work like that. Even the cheesiest consoles still require a setup and an execution at the right time on the right target. Some fleets do this better than others both with and without whatever console is in question.
Again, I am not defending consoles, skills, ships, weapons, or whatever is clearly overpowered or not working as we the player would believe is intended. What I am saying however is that neither you nor anyone else on this forum or in this or any other game can regulate the use of such things in a public queue system. Private queues and tournaments are completely different. And for that very reason support the enforcement of strict regulation of whatever kind for the purpose of the match or in game event.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I'd like to ask you a hypothetical question. You are fighting someone with this "cheese". You lose. Now. Are you still better than the player who beat you with the cheese? Or is the player that beat you with the cheese better than you because he played in such a way in which your best moves could not power past it? Is it neither? All this talk is subjective. TSI may of beat QEW two tournaments ago. QEW may of beat TSI last tournament held. Who is better? Neither. Both are extremely skilled and well seasoned fleets. Their tactics as a whole are different. Their philosophy on team tactics, team setup and team execution are polar opposites. But they both excel, adapt, and perform among the best known fleets in their own individual ways.
My point is just because a player has a console on his ship and uses it or a group of players do. It does not define their specific level of skills or their morals. In order to discover the morals behind those consoles you wouldn't look at the players using them. You would look at the developers who allowed them to be patched into the game.
Let no other Captain discourage you from what you believe you can achieve in PvP. Debuffs and Disables be damned! Charge up your Backstep and Forge your build out of Lock Boxes, Consoles, and Flash Sales feeding off of only your pure will to chain, spam, and hax your way forward. You will not be forgotten to history.
A better player? I lost and thats it. I could have done better, i will improve, i will adapt. Will i use the cheese? Maybe i will, maybe i will not.
As for the morale analogy, i still think it is like that. I would deem grav pulse to be cheese, others would not. I would deem subpsace jump to be perfectly oki, some others would not. So who is more "correct"? Maybe each team as you say have their setups and compositions, but just like consoles it could be considered cheese, as we know that tric mines with DPB is not p2w but still highly... annoying.
But yes, in the end its all Cryptics short sighted implentations which is to fault.
PaxOttomana: gawd mirror event is like fighting a tsi premade, they keep comin and comin!
I kind of agree here. It really comes down to cheesy builds in the end. I don't believe vent theta is any more cheesy than tric dpb's are and ones a console and ones an ability. It all comes down to game balance. No one is complaining about people using the oberths lame console because its not out of balance with the game. If the bug was a dilithium bought ship, it would still be the most powerful escort in the game and therefore be slightly OP (or extremely Op in some ppls opinion). It's balance that we crave, and its balance that cryptic starves us of. It's been said many times that this is a pve game with pvp just kind of thrown on top. It's a simple conclusion that has repeatably explained the history of pvp in this game, and while there are many more dynamic explanations as to why pvp sucks so hard right now in this game, it's usually the simplest explanation that cuts to the core of the problem IMO.