My guess is that Stahl thought the glut of dilithium pushed into the game by pre-season 7 salvage conversions and a high demand for Zen from Vesta sales would cause a surge of dilithium into the market. That's not an unreasonable conclusion, but it ignores player speculation about a controversial economic change.
Folks have been speculating and holding their dilithium for weeks now with new of the reduced faucets and increased sinks, and as you said an uncertain market means people hold onto their purses while they feel things out.
I'm still at a complete loss as to how they believe the new system will actually increase dilithium refinement on a player by player basis. It's completely at odds with the new system that's in place, and I can't tell if there is just some sort of fundamental disconnect or if they are just bold face lying
Considering the way they went about the Dilithium rewards in STF's and their deception or misleading comments about that whole debacle... I am thinking it's the latter.
If it's not then they should be explaining it to us.
I'm still at a complete loss as to how they believe the new system will actually increase dilithium refinement on a player by player basis. It's completely at odds with the new system that's in place, and I can't tell if there is just some sort of fundamental disconnect or if they are just bold face lying
Anyone with any mathematics and a pocket calculator could have told them that reducing the supply and increasing the necessary outlay would reduce the amount of dil in the game. Hell all you have to do is look at a river for a good analogy.
Now they were probably carefully choosing their words by saying that they wanted the average player refining 32k of dilithium a week rather than the amount of dill in the game, but slamming shut the amount of Dil coming in to the game by cutting off the main ways players were getting dil, and and then claiming they want players refining MORE dil is bald faced lying.
Hell they have reduced the amount of dil you get from SB24 and other sources as well now. Not one of my characters has hit its refining cap since s7 came out. The only one that came close I was playing with all day. I'm on Disability so I have to time to be playing like that. Most people don't.
There is other consequences as well. They have removed the STF loot drops which is going to make blue and purple gear extremely rare in a month or so. That would make crafting viable again... if crafting was not the worst dil sink in creation. That has consequenses.
And you know what will happen in 3 months when people finally hit the top end of the Rommy/Omega grind? Yep it will be the Carsasian Grind! The Dominion Marks! Hell lets have the Borg Marks! why not!
Anyone with any mathematics and a pocket calculator could have told them that reducing the supply and increasing the necessary outlay would reduce the amount of dil in the game. Hell all you have to do is look at a river for a good analogy.
Now they were probably carefully choosing their words by saying that they wanted the average player refining 32k of dilithium a week rather than the amount of dill in the game, but slamming shut the amount of Dil coming in to the game by cutting off the main ways players were getting dil, and and then claiming they want players refining MORE dil is bald faced lying.
Hell they have reduced the amount of dil you get from SB24 and other sources as well now. Not one of my characters has hit its refining cap since s7 came out. The only one that came close I was playing with all day. I'm on Disability so I have to time to be playing like that. Most people don't.
There is other consequences as well. They have removed the STF loot drops which is going to make blue and purple gear extremely rare in a month or so. That would make crafting viable again... if crafting was not the worst dil sink in creation. That has consequenses.
And you know what will happen in 3 months when people finally hit the top end of the Rommy/Omega grind? Yep it will be the Carsasian Grind! The Dominion Marks! Hell lets have the Borg Marks! why not!
I agree none of my Chars have hit their dil cap either... (I only have 3)... I have to say this idea that S7 was all about getting us to refine 32k a week was a blatant lie to cover up the reality.
1) Less spare dilithium to use on the exchange due to new sinks and a removal of 1/3rd of the STF's awarded dilithium (over the average of 5 games with at least 1 blue and purple tech or salvage...(around 9590 Dilithium)...(Current reward over 5 games is fixed at 5800))
This lack of spare dilithium I thought would be in someway ameliorated by everyone exploiting the bug cryptic introduced into the Starbase 24 Fleet event. However it has not and the Zen value continues to slide... this leads me to point 2.
2) Many players have built up reserves but are as expected in any uncertain economic period holding on to their savings... I am sure once Zen reaches a a low enough value the market will be temporarily flooded with dilithium however this will recede and we will return to low Zen prices again in short order... the Zen price may increase by a fraction say about 2-3 points when people reach Teir 5 in the reputation and can convert Marks to Dilithium.
Some of you seem to be confused if there was MORE Dilithium being shunted into the exchange the value of Dilithium would drop (abundant supply, non-scarcity) and consequently the value of Zen would increase they are tied together because the value is based on the rate of exchange. The REALITY is there is far less dilithium on the exchange and the valeu of Zen is as a result collapsing as there is now a shortage of dilithium sellers and and about the same amount of Zen sellers as there were before (maybe slighty less).
However with the current system in place spare dilithium will continue to be scarce and the Zen value will continue to be depressed barring a change in the system or direct manipulation of the exchange by Cryptic.
Great explanation! Economic never was my really strong suit but i believe i finally understand something.
Season 7 have to be the worst pack of idea's ive's seen in STO; leave your ridiculous shared holder for a few second and return to comon sense; this new patch have its good point; i can survived the changes youve's made to the STF and i can even accept the fact that alot of PROC'S are wortless and not effective; BUT I CANT live with the fact that you destroy the dilithium reserve ........ stay like this and 6 month = server bye bye.
Anyone with any mathematics and a pocket calculator could have told them that reducing the supply and increasing the necessary outlay would reduce the amount of dil in the game. Hell all you have to do is look at a river for a good analogy.
Now they were probably carefully choosing their words by saying that they wanted the average player refining 32k of dilithium a week rather than the amount of dill in the game, but slamming shut the amount of Dil coming in to the game by cutting off the main ways players were getting dil, and and then claiming they want players refining MORE dil is bald faced lying.
Hell they have reduced the amount of dil you get from SB24 and other sources as well now. Not one of my characters has hit its refining cap since s7 came out. The only one that came close I was playing with all day. I'm on Disability so I have to time to be playing like that. Most people don't.
There is other consequences as well. They have removed the STF loot drops which is going to make blue and purple gear extremely rare in a month or so. That would make crafting viable again... if crafting was not the worst dil sink in creation. That has consequenses.
And you know what will happen in 3 months when people finally hit the top end of the Rommy/Omega grind? Yep it will be the Carsasian Grind! The Dominion Marks! Hell lets have the Borg Marks! why not!
Well, they CHANGED the supply sources. It's not as simple as a straightforward reduction. Breaking the planet is easier than most STFs and now gives more dil.
Breaking the planet actually only gives 640 dil afaik, it takes ages, and I've never actually had a game of it start up when I queue for it. And since I can no longer see if people are queueing up for it, I cant hop onto a game that's going to start. You would have to do it 12 times over to fill your dil quota.
YOu see, that's the problem. You might say "oh there's other sources now" but in terms of time invested per dil earned you are just getting less dil for your play time then you did before.
And BTP a fun scenario but I'd rather play mine trap that gives 0 dil.
Oh hey, guess whats in the tribble patch notes for the latest build going up?
Hmm...
Guess what, its not for Tribble anymore.
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should. moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
Breaking the planet actually only gives 640 dil afaik, it takes ages, and I've never actually had a game of it start up when I queue for it. And since I can no longer see if people are queueing up for it, I cant hop onto a game that's going to start. You would have to do it 12 times over to fill your dil quota.
Its a fun scenario but I'd rather play mine trap that gives 0 dil.
Oh right... I USED to give 1440. I forgot it was changed. I've not had issues playing it since S7 started.
This game is going down the toilet. I decided to keep playing this game after Cryptic crossed the line in CO by putting a big update name on a set of customizable overhyped Become devices. I left, but taking advantage of the fact that one of the game's designers happened to be checking out his handiwork in-game, I announced in zone chat I would come back to CO when an update contains more actual content than it contains C-store items. Not only is Cryptic turning this game into a "cow clicker" like Farmville, they spend most of their development time making C-store items, dilithium sinks, and grind-fests, and now the updates are starting to have more of this than actual missions. If Season 8 makes things even worse than this, I may leave STO too.
Its worth noting that pre-Season 7, the daily steam users for STO were around 1 thousand, after Season 7 its about 3 thousand. Steam users don't represent the full playerbase, but if that shows a three-fold increase, then its reasonable to assume that - at least for now - Season 7 is not killing the game, and that the servers are far from empty. Facts > Hyperbole.
Three fold increase cause new stuff was added. You can't honestly compare the end of a season population w/ the start of a new one. Try comparing the first month of S6 to first month of S7, or 6th month, or etc. The real proof will be to see how many stick around after the newness wears off.
I have spent $700 on this game between a lifetime sub for 200 and the the other 500 on lock boxes. I have received NOT ONE rare lockbox ship. Yet when I log on to the game I find it so ridiculously over priced to use or aquire dilithium that I'll HAVE to buy more zen just to convert to dilithium if I need dilithium. I haven't donated to my fleet in over a week, and I hardly play the game now for more than ten minutes a day. I guess I'll log on atleast once or twice a week since I wasted money on a lifetime subscription. You know Cryptic... I paid a lifetime sub for the game as is. Atleast I could buy some zen.. an outfit, or some lock box keys. NOT HAVE TO BUY ZEN TO KEEP DILITHIUM STORES UP! You should have made ONE SMALL CHANGE, then surveyed it to see if it worked. Not TRIBBLE up everything in some way and tell us to deal with it. Not when some of us have payed you for a "lifetime" and spent hundreds of dollors in six months. You know... you don't have to appease us. And sure.. you don't have to have our permission when you do things.. But I'd sure as heck make sure you aren't going to absolutely ENRAGE your players and cause them not to want to play by changing things YOU ALREADY HAD IN PLACE YOURSELVES!!
Anyway, I may be so bored and/or sick of the grind that I do not play at all in a few weeks. I just wanted to let everyone here know once and for all. BUYING ZEN IS A WASTE. I tested the odds on boxes. 500 lockboxes = NO SHIP. You'd think they'd give you a guarantee after that many boxes you'd get to pick one ship. Cryptic will not get another cent from me. And I hope you are doing the math Cryptic 700 dollars in six months... good lawd I've paid you for about 3 years worth already. I'll be sure to tell everyone I see exactly how you run this game and do my best to keep them from coming.
DOFFs - overpriced now
DOFF recruitment assignment = overpriced now
TWO reputation factions = tedious, time consuming, click click clicking
... and you must gather marks for BOTH factions
STF's = screwed up on loot now.
Starbase - now receive less from players because of the Embassy and TWO rep factions.
the list goes on...
I'm out. Atleast if I watch Star Trek TOS - Kirk won't keep asking me for handouts for shoddy work!
Haveing read,, some,, of the posts on this thread i feel inclined to throw in my two cents. I am a lifer thats been playing since open beta. I purchased a 1 year sub after playing beta for 20 minutes because i new this game had potiential. Roughly 8 months into my 1 year i bought a lifetime during a sale and have not regretted it. I own ALL fed ships but 4 the game has to offer and have already purchased the ZEN to by the Vetsa SET. Along the way i have bought EVERY costume in the game, as well as ship slots, and costume slots, DOFF slots... my point is,, all those purchases are CHOICES!!! I CHOSE to spend my hard earned money on pixels generated by Cryptic's game engine. I am NOT complaining!!! If i decide to NOT spend another penny on this game,, i WONT spend another penny on this game. THAT is one thing that some people need to realize.. YOU CHOOSE TO SPEND REAL MONEY,, or NOT SPENT REAL MONEY on PIXELS!
YES, Dilthium is a real pain in the TRIBBLE,, and i COMPLETELY agree the daily refine limit needs to be raised to AT LEAST 10k, perhaps more.. however,, i dont know why there are SOOOO many people complaining about spending REAL money on this game? Dont you people realize that if NO ONE spent any money on this game,, the game would cease to exist? I for one LOVE playing STO,, i have 7 fed characters,, 3 are in " storage" mode at the moment,, because maintaining 7 characters just got to damned annoying.
As far as the GRIND,, I run Space missions on one toon, ground missions on two toons, and combination space and ground on the other toon. Do i have the BEST gear in the game? HELL NO! I dont see the need to get the BEST of everything because there really is no reason for it. If you want the BEST of everything,, and you want the FANCY this and COLORFUL that,, then you CHOOSE to grind or spend real money to GET that gear.
I hope STO is here for a LONGGGG time to come, and I personally think the DEVs are doing a GREAT job because the game has come A LONGGGGGG way since Open BETA almost 3 years ago. It bothers me that there are so many complainers, and nay-sayers on the forums. If i was the EP of this game, and read what the OP had to say,, i would be pretty upset and possible angry! How would YOU like it if you worked you TRIBBLE off to TRY to make people happy AS WELL as run a bussiness and yet EVERYTIME you put out a new product you got 300 complaints about it,,,, but you sold 50000 units of your product with very few POSTIVE reviews,, people who LIKE something often dont give reviews, but people who DISLIKE something ALWAYS complain!
I dont know if this rants makes any sense,, but it is what it is... now im logging in to run Mine Trap for the first time of many tonight,,, so SHUT UP AND PLAY,, or go away,, either way MAKE A DAMNED CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*************************** Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon Fighting 5th Attack Squadron The Devils Henchman
I have to disagree with your post, Unless you have a Masters In Business Management, But STO is first and Formost a Business. Which takes precidence over everything else.
If the business is not making money, it shuts down. Yes some of the business changes suck, but does it really suck or is everyone just resistant to change.
PWE isnt making changes to break your bank, to steal your wallet, if you think that, stop buying in game items. I know plenty of people that buy lock boxes, get lock box ships, and c store ships from dilithium conversion, and "Grinding" as you would. people that make you think "**** you must have spent a fortune" But no. just lucky in the lock box gamble.
PWE Isnt oblivious to what we want in the game, but you dont run a business, they have a team doing it, and its not simple to balance what the business needs to what the players want. PWE isnt trying to break the game or forcing you all to quit, change just takes getting used to. Personally, I dont mind the changes at all. if it takes longer to farm dilithium to finish projects. so be it, it just means im going to play the game longer.
Im quite happy taking 3 months to farm dilithium that used to take 2 months. but thats just me. as for fleet projects. if your having trouble filling them, you should have made a bigger fleet, or joined a bigger one. it seems pretty straight forward to me.
Lessons in business, now from a dimwitted 12yo kid (hint: if you can't spell "foremost" and "precedence", you have no lessons to give to anyone about anything).
Sycophants will always exist. In every human gathering, there's always someone willing to not only take a kick to the shins, but thank the kicker afterwards.
Truth is, by introducing timers to what little endgame this "game" has, Cryptic has implicitly admitted what we all knew for a long time: they cannot devellop content fast enough/well enough to keep the playerbase occupied, so they need to make you wait, thumbs wildly twiddling, for 20+ hours every time you play 30min.
This is beyond TRIBBLE, beyond excusing and beyond unacceptable.
I have a small exercise for anyone willing to partake in it: check the past updates. Look back and see how much of it has been content vs how much of it has been cashgrab.
See for yourselves and reach the obvious conclusion: STO isn't a game. Hasn't been for quite a while. It's a shop.
I have to disagree with your post, Unless you have a Masters In Business Management, But STO is first and Formost a Business. Which takes precidence over everything else.
If the business is not making money, it shuts down. Yes some of the business changes suck, but does it really suck or is everyone just resistant to change.
PWE isnt making changes to break your bank, to steal your wallet, if you think that, stop buying in game items. I know plenty of people that buy lock boxes, get lock box ships, and c store ships from dilithium conversion, and "Grinding" as you would. people that make you think "**** you must have spent a fortune" But no. just lucky in the lock box gamble.
PWE Isnt oblivious to what we want in the game, but you dont run a business, they have a team doing it, and its not simple to balance what the business needs to what the players want. PWE isnt trying to break the game or forcing you all to quit, change just takes getting used to. Personally, I dont mind the changes at all. if it takes longer to farm dilithium to finish projects. so be it, it just means im going to play the game longer.
Im quite happy taking 3 months to farm dilithium that used to take 2 months. but thats just me. as for fleet projects. if your having trouble filling them, you should have made a bigger fleet, or joined a bigger one. it seems pretty straight forward to me.
Actually, I do have a Master of Business Administration, focused on Marketing. I avoided bringing it up because I have no wish to turn this into a giant argument from authority.
Here are some basic rules I learned that product developers should keep in mind.
1) Keep changing constantly
2) Make sure the changes are GRADUAL!!!!
3) Changes should provide the customers with increased value (perceived benefit)
PWE/Cryptic has rule 1 down, no questions asked, but rule 2 and 3 not so much. This is exaclty why people are so angry.
I understand that this is a business, but there are far more honest ways of making money than tricking people into a lifer subscription, then dishonestly manipulating the dilithium exchange so that the value of the subscription diminishes. For example, I've seen some F2P games offer a la carte subscriptions. What do I mean about that? I mean if you have a subscription various services such as bank space, free upgraded ships etc could be bought seperately at a higher price if they are individually purchased than a subsciprtion package.
Clearly PWE has no idea how earn money without giving the perception (among the majority of clients) that they are ripping people off. This is a serious problem because PWE/Cryptic will constantly have to keep recruiting new customers instead of retaining repeat business. Retaining loyal customers is always cheaper than acquiring new customers.
That said, if PWE/Cryptic is interested in making real changes, I'd be happy to send you my CV, but I don't work for cheap.
I have spent $700 on this game between a lifetime sub for 200 and the the other 500 on lock boxes. I have received NOT ONE rare lockbox ship. Yet when I log on to the game I find it so ridiculously over priced to use or aquire dilithium that I'll HAVE to buy more zen just to convert to dilithium if I need dilithium. I haven't donated to my fleet in over a week, and I hardly play the game now for more than ten minutes a day. I guess I'll log on atleast once or twice a week since I wasted money on a lifetime subscription. You know Cryptic... I paid a lifetime sub for the game as is. Atleast I could buy some zen.. an outfit, or some lock box keys. NOT HAVE TO BUY ZEN TO KEEP DILITHIUM STORES UP! You should have made ONE SMALL CHANGE, then surveyed it to see if it worked. Not TRIBBLE up everything in some way and tell us to deal with it. Not when some of us have payed you for a "lifetime" and spent hundreds of dollors in six months. You know... you don't have to appease us. And sure.. you don't have to have our permission when you do things.. But I'd sure as heck make sure you aren't going to absolutely ENRAGE your players and cause them not to want to play by changing things YOU ALREADY HAD IN PLACE YOURSELVES!!
Anyway, I may be so bored and/or sick of the grind that I do not play at all in a few weeks. I just wanted to let everyone here know once and for all. BUYING ZEN IS A WASTE. I tested the odds on boxes. 500 lockboxes = NO SHIP. You'd think they'd give you a guarantee after that many boxes you'd get to pick one ship. Cryptic will not get another cent from me. And I hope you are doing the math Cryptic 700 dollars in six months... good lawd I've paid you for about 3 years worth already. I'll be sure to tell everyone I see exactly how you run this game and do my best to keep them from coming.
DOFFs - overpriced now
DOFF recruitment assignment = overpriced now
TWO reputation factions = tedious, time consuming, click click clicking
... and you must gather marks for BOTH factions
STF's = screwed up on loot now.
Starbase - now receive less from players because of the Embassy and TWO rep factions.
the list goes on...
I'm out. Atleast if I watch Star Trek TOS - Kirk won't keep asking me for handouts for shoddy work!
Jesus, I haven't spent half of what you spent and I'm already POed. I can only imagine how you feel. I almost got tricked into being a lifer (was gold), then after S7 came out, I asked for my money back as I was only a lifer for a couple days.
Not to put a damper on everyone's excellent posts but Cryptic doesn't listen to suggestions. If you don't believe me, just check the Tribble forum and see and check out the Black/Missing Textures in the Grahics Issues section. What they do respond to is stastics. Their changes almost killed STF's and we showed them by not playing and/or buying that content. That is how we make a difference and that is the only way to bring about change!
Not to put a damper on everyone's excellent posts but Cryptic doesn't listen to suggestions. If you don't believe me, just check the Tribble forum and see and check out the Black/Missing Textures in the Grahics Issues section. What they do respond to is stastics. Their changes almost killed STF's and we showed them by not playing and/or buying that content. That is how we make a difference and that is the only way to bring about change!
Actually that's what I'm doing. I started by not slating any fleet base projects. It turns out that my own decision (and from what i read, the same is happening in other fleets) was irrelevent, as people stopped contributing from the bottom up (probably because of the increased cost and decrease in dilithium supplies)>
Actually, I do have a Master of Business Administration, focused on Marketing. I avoided bringing it up because I have no wish to turn this into a giant argument from authority.
Here are some basic rules I learned that product developers should keep in mind.
1) Keep changing constantly
2) Make sure the changes are GRADUAL!!!!
3) Changes should provide the customers with increased value (perceived benefit)
PWE/Cryptic has rule 1 down, no questions asked, but rule 2 and 3 not so much. This is exaclty why people are so angry.
I understand that this is a business, but there are far more honest ways of making money than tricking people into a lifer subscription, then dishonestly manipulating the dilithium exchange so that the value of the subscription diminishes. For example, I've seen some F2P games offer a la carte subscriptions. What do I mean about that? I mean if you have a subscription various services such as bank space, free upgraded ships etc could be bought seperately at a higher price if they are individually purchased than a subsciprtion package.
Clearly PWE has no idea how earn money without giving the perception (among the majority of clients) that they are ripping people off. This is a serious problem because PWE/Cryptic will constantly have to keep recruiting new customers instead of retaining repeat business. Retaining loyal customers is always cheaper than acquiring new customers.
That said, if PWE/Cryptic is interested in making real changes, I'd be happy to send you my CV, but I don't work for cheap.
They now how do. Look what they do on Champion online, that exactly the good way to do it, you are a free player you have basic thing you want more you pay for each part of thing you want. You are a gold member you have everything !!
I still not really understand why they don't do exactly the same with STO, for me is two options : they want kill the game or they think star trek fan are stupid and can spend more and more money
now i'm off to STO until they make things better and find some respect for gold member or i will not come back
I agree totally with stopping the base projects until PWE wakes up and restores what was taken away!
Season 7 has introduced more requirements for dil and less ways to get it! Most of us have Jobs and Families and cannot spend all day grinding in STO to try and get the dil required now.
Dil farming did nothing to hurt the game and it provied a balanced way for players like me to build the bases. Now with the Embassy and Personal Reputaion systems online in Season 7, plus taking away dil "farming", it makes no sense to continue trying to get my reputaion or bases completed. So PWE, with your Season 7 "slam it down the players throat" approach, you seem to have killed the players, with jobs and family, desire to even keep playing. Do you realize that the players like me that have limited time to play each day, are the ones that are actually paying for Zen to keep up with the F2P grinders that have all day to grind the dil they need and not spend a dime on your game. Your balance towards the general masses (aka F2P) has created a total mess for the ones who buy your Zen! Check your revenue spreadsheets and see where your real income is coming from! It will not be from the F2P masses that you have now designed the game around!
Please listen to us before you lose the main source of revenue!
Stop the dil taxes! Stop the dil sinkholes! Stop the abuse of your player base!
I said that because I know -exactly- how much effort it takes to get a doff mission started.
Virtually none at all.
Granted, FINDING the missions isn't a cakewalk, but all you need is about 100k EC (for commodities), a crapton of colonists, and some luck with the mission list to finish a colony chain. Which in turn gives all the purples you can wish for, which in turn provide a LOT of whites.
And your post was practically a written confession. You are well aware of these methods of getting good doffs, yet you still cry about the doffgrinder. I wonder why... :rolleyes:
Ok but I have one criticism for this post. One of the main reasons I grind on the academy missions is I'm hoping for a nonbound purple engineer with resolve. None of the colonizing chains offers an engineer with resolve. I am fond of the "children's toys" doff chain which requires 5 engineers with resolve" to get something even halfway decent. I am willing to take the risk with blue doffs to get my purple engineer, but I will not pay through the nose. I also have a problem with bound on pickup doffs because I can't get rid of them (stuckin in my inventory for good) or trade them for a better doff in say "cardassian officer exchange missions". I'm afraid the colonization missions are not a subsitute for the academy missions. I think people like yourself are being overly dismissive of people's concerns about doff missions costing money because you're missing the point The point is not "is it possible to get purple doffs for free?". The point is, PWE is deliberately making more and more things cost dilithium, while drastically reducing the supply of dilithium to artificially inflate the cost of buying dilithium with real world money. The doffs are just another symptom of a greater problem.
They now how do. Look what they do on Champion online, that exactly the good way to do it, you are a free player you have basic thing you want more you pay for each part of thing you want. You are a gold member you have everything !!
I still not really understand why they don't do exactly the same with STO, for me is two options : they want kill the game or they think star trek fan are stupid and can spend more and more money
now i'm off to STO until they make things better and find some respect for gold member or i will not come back
OR better yet, they could copy World of w and let people have ann unlimited number of characters, but cap people at level 30. Then allow people to continue once they become gold members. This would require PWE to do two things though.
1: Creat more content for KDF so that players can start at a lower rank (just like the Feds).
2: Produce a product that will make people want to keep playing for money.
The second part is difficult. Clearly World of W has been successful in giving players enough of a taste of their game that people want to continue. It demonstrates something else as well, confidence. The devs at Blizzard have confidence in the quality of their product and its appeal to customers. Why else would they let people try the game for free?
I agree totally with stopping the base projects until PWE wakes up and restores what was taken away!
Season 7 has introduced more requirements for dil and less ways to get it! Most of us have Jobs and Families and cannot spend all day grinding in STO to try and get the dil required now.
Dil farming did nothing to hurt the game and it provied a balanced way for players like me to build the bases. Now with the Embassy and Personal Reputaion systems online in Season 7, plus taking away dil "farming", it makes no sense to continue trying to get my reputaion or bases completed. So PWE, with your Season 7 "slam it down the players throat" approach, you seem to have killed the players, with jobs and family, desire to even keep playing. Do you realize that the players like me that have limited time to play each day, are the ones that are actually paying for Zen to keep up with the F2P grinders that have all day to grind the dil they need and not spend a dime on your game. Your balance towards the general masses (aka F2P) has created a total mess for the ones who buy your Zen! Check your revenue spreadsheets and see where your real income is coming from! It will not be from the F2P masses that you have now designed the game around!
Please listen to us before you lose the main source of revenue!
Stop the dil taxes! Stop the dil sinkholes! Stop the abuse of your player base!
Yes Cryptic/PWE, try to remember it's us, the guys with credit cards who don't have the time because of working for a living, that actually pay your wages.
Because this in turn allows only a few hours a week playing time, you have now kicked us in the teeth with your stupid dil sinks and made grinding such a bind that you have in effect, brought to a halt numerous fleets in the game when it comes to upgrades.
There is no point in continuing as the time it takes to complete an upgrade far outweighs the effort required to maintain the slog for let's face it, hardly any reward worth mentioning. You have in S7 managed to alienate large members of your community in the pursuit of F2P players, while still expecting the paying ones, the ones who actually financially contribute to keep forking out various amounts per month. Well no longer.
Our fleet has stopped all work on it's projects until something is done with this ridiculous version of the game. We will still keep playing it, but no more contributions, no more zen, no more nothing until something is done. We urge all fleets to do the same until the developers wake up and realise that the paying customer is always right, without us there is no game!
Founder of the 3rd Foot & Mouth Federation Fleet. Join today!
The Khasi of Kalabar: They will die the death of a thousand cuts! Princess Jelhi: Oh! But that's horrible! The Khasi of Kalabar: Not at all my little desert flower, the British are used to cuts!
Comments
Considering the way they went about the Dilithium rewards in STF's and their deception or misleading comments about that whole debacle... I am thinking it's the latter.
If it's not then they should be explaining it to us.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Anyone with any mathematics and a pocket calculator could have told them that reducing the supply and increasing the necessary outlay would reduce the amount of dil in the game. Hell all you have to do is look at a river for a good analogy.
Now they were probably carefully choosing their words by saying that they wanted the average player refining 32k of dilithium a week rather than the amount of dill in the game, but slamming shut the amount of Dil coming in to the game by cutting off the main ways players were getting dil, and and then claiming they want players refining MORE dil is bald faced lying.
Hell they have reduced the amount of dil you get from SB24 and other sources as well now. Not one of my characters has hit its refining cap since s7 came out. The only one that came close I was playing with all day. I'm on Disability so I have to time to be playing like that. Most people don't.
There is other consequences as well. They have removed the STF loot drops which is going to make blue and purple gear extremely rare in a month or so. That would make crafting viable again... if crafting was not the worst dil sink in creation. That has consequenses.
And you know what will happen in 3 months when people finally hit the top end of the Rommy/Omega grind? Yep it will be the Carsasian Grind! The Dominion Marks! Hell lets have the Borg Marks! why not!
I agree none of my Chars have hit their dil cap either... (I only have 3)... I have to say this idea that S7 was all about getting us to refine 32k a week was a blatant lie to cover up the reality.
Most of us however aren't that stupid.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Great explanation! Economic never was my really strong suit but i believe i finally understand something.
Thanks
This particular issue can be boiled to even more simplistic terms
But yeah economics can get a little complicated further up the theoretical chain. Hehe at least I helped someone that makes me feel good
I am also no longer spending money on Zen.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Hmm...
My character Tsin'xing
YOu see, that's the problem. You might say "oh there's other sources now" but in terms of time invested per dil earned you are just getting less dil for your play time then you did before.
And BTP a fun scenario but I'd rather play mine trap that gives 0 dil.
Guess what, its not for Tribble anymore.
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
My character Tsin'xing
Oh good its on the patch notes for the next patch. Let joy be unconfined.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=6705791&postcount=1
Three fold increase cause new stuff was added. You can't honestly compare the end of a season population w/ the start of a new one. Try comparing the first month of S6 to first month of S7, or 6th month, or etc. The real proof will be to see how many stick around after the newness wears off.
Anyway, I may be so bored and/or sick of the grind that I do not play at all in a few weeks. I just wanted to let everyone here know once and for all. BUYING ZEN IS A WASTE. I tested the odds on boxes. 500 lockboxes = NO SHIP. You'd think they'd give you a guarantee after that many boxes you'd get to pick one ship. Cryptic will not get another cent from me. And I hope you are doing the math Cryptic 700 dollars in six months... good lawd I've paid you for about 3 years worth already. I'll be sure to tell everyone I see exactly how you run this game and do my best to keep them from coming.
DOFFs - overpriced now
DOFF recruitment assignment = overpriced now
TWO reputation factions = tedious, time consuming, click click clicking
... and you must gather marks for BOTH factions
STF's = screwed up on loot now.
Starbase - now receive less from players because of the Embassy and TWO rep factions.
the list goes on...
I'm out. Atleast if I watch Star Trek TOS - Kirk won't keep asking me for handouts for shoddy work!
YES, Dilthium is a real pain in the TRIBBLE,, and i COMPLETELY agree the daily refine limit needs to be raised to AT LEAST 10k, perhaps more.. however,, i dont know why there are SOOOO many people complaining about spending REAL money on this game? Dont you people realize that if NO ONE spent any money on this game,, the game would cease to exist? I for one LOVE playing STO,, i have 7 fed characters,, 3 are in " storage" mode at the moment,, because maintaining 7 characters just got to damned annoying.
As far as the GRIND,, I run Space missions on one toon, ground missions on two toons, and combination space and ground on the other toon. Do i have the BEST gear in the game? HELL NO! I dont see the need to get the BEST of everything because there really is no reason for it. If you want the BEST of everything,, and you want the FANCY this and COLORFUL that,, then you CHOOSE to grind or spend real money to GET that gear.
I hope STO is here for a LONGGGG time to come, and I personally think the DEVs are doing a GREAT job because the game has come A LONGGGGGG way since Open BETA almost 3 years ago. It bothers me that there are so many complainers, and nay-sayers on the forums. If i was the EP of this game, and read what the OP had to say,, i would be pretty upset and possible angry! How would YOU like it if you worked you TRIBBLE off to TRY to make people happy AS WELL as run a bussiness and yet EVERYTIME you put out a new product you got 300 complaints about it,,,, but you sold 50000 units of your product with very few POSTIVE reviews,, people who LIKE something often dont give reviews, but people who DISLIKE something ALWAYS complain!
I dont know if this rants makes any sense,, but it is what it is... now im logging in to run Mine Trap for the first time of many tonight,,, so SHUT UP AND PLAY,, or go away,, either way MAKE A DAMNED CHOICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fleet Admiral In charge of Bacon
Fighting 5th Attack Squadron
The Devils Henchman
I have to disagree with your post, Unless you have a Masters In Business Management, But STO is first and Formost a Business. Which takes precidence over everything else.
If the business is not making money, it shuts down. Yes some of the business changes suck, but does it really suck or is everyone just resistant to change.
PWE isnt making changes to break your bank, to steal your wallet, if you think that, stop buying in game items. I know plenty of people that buy lock boxes, get lock box ships, and c store ships from dilithium conversion, and "Grinding" as you would. people that make you think "**** you must have spent a fortune" But no. just lucky in the lock box gamble.
PWE Isnt oblivious to what we want in the game, but you dont run a business, they have a team doing it, and its not simple to balance what the business needs to what the players want. PWE isnt trying to break the game or forcing you all to quit, change just takes getting used to. Personally, I dont mind the changes at all. if it takes longer to farm dilithium to finish projects. so be it, it just means im going to play the game longer.
Im quite happy taking 3 months to farm dilithium that used to take 2 months. but thats just me. as for fleet projects. if your having trouble filling them, you should have made a bigger fleet, or joined a bigger one. it seems pretty straight forward to me.
Sycophants will always exist. In every human gathering, there's always someone willing to not only take a kick to the shins, but thank the kicker afterwards.
Truth is, by introducing timers to what little endgame this "game" has, Cryptic has implicitly admitted what we all knew for a long time: they cannot devellop content fast enough/well enough to keep the playerbase occupied, so they need to make you wait, thumbs wildly twiddling, for 20+ hours every time you play 30min.
This is beyond TRIBBLE, beyond excusing and beyond unacceptable.
I have a small exercise for anyone willing to partake in it: check the past updates. Look back and see how much of it has been content vs how much of it has been cashgrab.
See for yourselves and reach the obvious conclusion: STO isn't a game. Hasn't been for quite a while. It's a shop.
Actually, I do have a Master of Business Administration, focused on Marketing. I avoided bringing it up because I have no wish to turn this into a giant argument from authority.
Here are some basic rules I learned that product developers should keep in mind.
1) Keep changing constantly
2) Make sure the changes are GRADUAL!!!!
3) Changes should provide the customers with increased value (perceived benefit)
PWE/Cryptic has rule 1 down, no questions asked, but rule 2 and 3 not so much. This is exaclty why people are so angry.
I understand that this is a business, but there are far more honest ways of making money than tricking people into a lifer subscription, then dishonestly manipulating the dilithium exchange so that the value of the subscription diminishes. For example, I've seen some F2P games offer a la carte subscriptions. What do I mean about that? I mean if you have a subscription various services such as bank space, free upgraded ships etc could be bought seperately at a higher price if they are individually purchased than a subsciprtion package.
Clearly PWE has no idea how earn money without giving the perception (among the majority of clients) that they are ripping people off. This is a serious problem because PWE/Cryptic will constantly have to keep recruiting new customers instead of retaining repeat business. Retaining loyal customers is always cheaper than acquiring new customers.
That said, if PWE/Cryptic is interested in making real changes, I'd be happy to send you my CV, but I don't work for cheap.
Jesus, I haven't spent half of what you spent and I'm already POed. I can only imagine how you feel. I almost got tricked into being a lifer (was gold), then after S7 came out, I asked for my money back as I was only a lifer for a couple days.
Actually that's what I'm doing. I started by not slating any fleet base projects. It turns out that my own decision (and from what i read, the same is happening in other fleets) was irrelevent, as people stopped contributing from the bottom up (probably because of the increased cost and decrease in dilithium supplies)>
They now how do. Look what they do on Champion online, that exactly the good way to do it, you are a free player you have basic thing you want more you pay for each part of thing you want. You are a gold member you have everything !!
I still not really understand why they don't do exactly the same with STO, for me is two options : they want kill the game or they think star trek fan are stupid and can spend more and more money
now i'm off to STO until they make things better and find some respect for gold member or i will not come back
Season 7 has introduced more requirements for dil and less ways to get it! Most of us have Jobs and Families and cannot spend all day grinding in STO to try and get the dil required now.
Dil farming did nothing to hurt the game and it provied a balanced way for players like me to build the bases. Now with the Embassy and Personal Reputaion systems online in Season 7, plus taking away dil "farming", it makes no sense to continue trying to get my reputaion or bases completed. So PWE, with your Season 7 "slam it down the players throat" approach, you seem to have killed the players, with jobs and family, desire to even keep playing. Do you realize that the players like me that have limited time to play each day, are the ones that are actually paying for Zen to keep up with the F2P grinders that have all day to grind the dil they need and not spend a dime on your game. Your balance towards the general masses (aka F2P) has created a total mess for the ones who buy your Zen! Check your revenue spreadsheets and see where your real income is coming from! It will not be from the F2P masses that you have now designed the game around!
Please listen to us before you lose the main source of revenue!
Stop the dil taxes! Stop the dil sinkholes! Stop the abuse of your player base!
Zeus
Ok but I have one criticism for this post. One of the main reasons I grind on the academy missions is I'm hoping for a nonbound purple engineer with resolve. None of the colonizing chains offers an engineer with resolve. I am fond of the "children's toys" doff chain which requires 5 engineers with resolve" to get something even halfway decent. I am willing to take the risk with blue doffs to get my purple engineer, but I will not pay through the nose. I also have a problem with bound on pickup doffs because I can't get rid of them (stuckin in my inventory for good) or trade them for a better doff in say "cardassian officer exchange missions". I'm afraid the colonization missions are not a subsitute for the academy missions. I think people like yourself are being overly dismissive of people's concerns about doff missions costing money because you're missing the point The point is not "is it possible to get purple doffs for free?". The point is, PWE is deliberately making more and more things cost dilithium, while drastically reducing the supply of dilithium to artificially inflate the cost of buying dilithium with real world money. The doffs are just another symptom of a greater problem.
OR better yet, they could copy World of w and let people have ann unlimited number of characters, but cap people at level 30. Then allow people to continue once they become gold members. This would require PWE to do two things though.
1: Creat more content for KDF so that players can start at a lower rank (just like the Feds).
2: Produce a product that will make people want to keep playing for money.
The second part is difficult. Clearly World of W has been successful in giving players enough of a taste of their game that people want to continue. It demonstrates something else as well, confidence. The devs at Blizzard have confidence in the quality of their product and its appeal to customers. Why else would they let people try the game for free?
Here here!!
Because this in turn allows only a few hours a week playing time, you have now kicked us in the teeth with your stupid dil sinks and made grinding such a bind that you have in effect, brought to a halt numerous fleets in the game when it comes to upgrades.
There is no point in continuing as the time it takes to complete an upgrade far outweighs the effort required to maintain the slog for let's face it, hardly any reward worth mentioning. You have in S7 managed to alienate large members of your community in the pursuit of F2P players, while still expecting the paying ones, the ones who actually financially contribute to keep forking out various amounts per month. Well no longer.
Our fleet has stopped all work on it's projects until something is done with this ridiculous version of the game. We will still keep playing it, but no more contributions, no more zen, no more nothing until something is done. We urge all fleets to do the same until the developers wake up and realise that the paying customer is always right, without us there is no game!
The Khasi of Kalabar: They will die the death of a thousand cuts!
Princess Jelhi: Oh! But that's horrible!
The Khasi of Kalabar: Not at all my little desert flower, the British are used to cuts!