But I concede that I just might have to contribute less to the common goal.
Yes, for two months at most. Provided they don't add a mandatory and insane dilithium sink in the meantime. Something like paying for logging in, for ship bullets, or some TRIBBLE of this kind. If they do then we can start to complain, but for now all you have to do is to make choices. It's frustrating but if you're frustrated it means they won this match because that will make you stay around for a while till you achieve all your goals or to pay for this. In both case they win. :P
I log on today to find that I've met my doff cap again. Great! Now to convert the whites to greens.. ho humm dee doo da.. what the!?! Those dilithium prices for converting doffs!?! And so since I donate the majority of my dilithium to my fleet I've found that I have 4k dilithium on me.. After a few moments I've converted some but not all of my doffs and I'm out of dilithium... oh and the general recruitment mission now costs dilithium.. woo hoo!
Well now.. let's see. I'm trying to use the doff system, gain personal reputation with TWO factions, contribute to my fleet starbase, contribute to my fleet embassy, run FA's for marks for the fleet and for my fleet creds, and run STF's to upgrade ship and personal gear. There is no time to craft, no time to do a red alert, no time to scan anomalys, no time to play storyline missions for fun, no time for random encounters... I've gotta hurry hurry! I've only got an hour today to play, maybe two hours the other days... and five hours one day a week. So one day a week when I get the above list done, I'll have some time to relax and actually look on the game with my eyes... enjoy the scenery.. the content.
It's all a dilithium sink and grind now. Or a real life money grind to buy zen and convert into dilithium. Sure I do not have to do everything. Sure I do not have to be a "completionist". But I came here to enjoy the Star Trek Genre and be a casual player. Now it feels like the majority of other MMO's. Hurry to level, and get ready for the grind, you might get 1/4 of the things you'd like to have done before the next season.
Yes, for two months at most. Provided they don't add a mandatory and insane dilithium sink in the meantime. Something like paying for logging in, for ship bullets, or some TRIBBLE of this kind. If they do then we can start to complain, but for now all you have to do is to make choices. It's frustrating but if you're frustrated it means they won this match because that will make you stay around for a while till you achieve all your goals or to pay for this. In both case they win. :P
You know, I just realized I have you on my friends list in game XD. However you are correct, DOffs are still pretty easy to get, AS LONG AS YOU KNOW YOUR LIMITS. If you know you only have X amount of refined dil to give to this, then you only give that X amount, and worry about getting more later. But he's right. If you can't do both starbase/embassy and DOffs effectively, then pick whichever one is more important, and slow the other one down.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
To borrow a line from Seven of Nine: You will adapt.
And I think that was the thing I realized watching S7 take shape. I rolled several new toons last summer to dilithium farm. I could farm 32k - 40k a night without a lot of effort. It just meant doing a couple dailies and then STF's. I saw the changes being made were specifically designed to stop that.
That's what I've been doing: adapting. First week I've really only played on my two main Fed toons. I've found I've gone from earning 32k dilithium to about 10k. But I'm also having a lot more fun. It's nice to have a reason to do SB24 and Gorn minefield again rather than the same STF's over and over again. I think Mine Trap is best ground mission I've played yet. I've also gone back to breaking the planet and big dig and discovered that they aren't that bad. I never did them before because you didn't get anything for them once you reached level 50.
The discussion on our TS now that most people have enough marks on their main toons for a while is "So what do we want to do for fun?". And that's a good thing.
I do agree that loot should be added back in for STF optionals. I mean give us a reason to try and get the optional. Also having loot at the end of an STF for a chance of some rare/very rare item on elite and maybe common/uncommon on normal wouldn't be a bad idea either.
It wasn't until this season launched that I realized pretty much all our fleet did was run STF's and try to max out dilithium on as many toons as possible. Now I see people wanted to do other things including PVP.
I think a lot depends on why you play the game? To collect virtual items and currency that goes away when the game does or do you play to have fun. Once I got over the initial shock of "I can't get 30k dilithium with very little effort" and figured out, hey let's go have fun things got a lot better.
And from what I've seen in the fleet it breaks down across the mentality. Those of us who want to play to have fun are doing so. Those who seemed to have the goal of collecting as much in game money as possible are frustrated and talking about leaving.
I'm not starting a naked character. But I'm going for the new sets and gear.
I've been tryin to help get the starbase to the point where my fleetmates and I can get the provisions and fleet ships we all want.
But hey, I've been lucky enough to get two of those lock box ships.
I'll just focus on myself now.
I only have so much time and money after all.
See my point?
But I concede that I just might have to contribute less to the common goal. Feels wrong in an MMO tho.
I really thought the fleet starbase projects would bring players together.
Not really. It takes me all of 30 minutes every 2 days to get enough Omega and Romulan marks to keep my reputation running, actually significantly less than that at the lower tiers. I can also farm omega marks and gear to sell at the same time I'm farming dilithium (STFs & Fleet actions).
Again, there seems to be this big race with filling Fleet Starbase missions. Just take your time and donate what you can. Starbases are suppose to be extremely longterm projects. The world isn't going to end if you don't fill up a starbase project at fast as humanly possible, it's not going anywhere.
Y
But I concede that I just might have to contribute less to the common goal. Feels wrong in an MMO tho. I really thought the fleet starbase projects would bring players together.
onece you unlock a tier you then get to do a 40hr project to get the privilage of spending dilith on one just one item if you want anything else is another 40hr project. I sold a ring that i dont wear but still had great sentimental value to me for lifetime membership. I feel so riped off cheated. This season jsut keeps getting worse not better. ive been known to play 15 or 20 hours a day on weekend but now after a couple hrs im so bored and depressed i leave and dont comeback till the next day. how could any sane person call this TRIBBLE an impovement????
I will never ever spend another dime of real world money on this game ever ever ever ever.
onece you unlock a tier you then get to do a 40hr project to get the privilage of spending dilith on one just one item if you want anything else is another 40hr project. I sold a ring that i dont wear but still had great sentimental value to me for lifetime membership. I feel so riped off cheated. This season jsut keeps getting worse not better. ive been known to play 15 or 20 hours a day on weekend but now after a couple hrs im so bored and depressed i leave and dont comeback till the next day. how could any sane person call this TRIBBLE an impovement????
I will never ever spend another dime of real world money on this game ever ever ever ever.
For starters, I freakin LOVE the updates they did to NPCs, the Borg especially. I also love the Tholians on elite. Hence why I find an interesting combination of frustration and amusement when I read all the Borg rage threads here on the forums XD. All the AI updates and weapon updates on elite npcs are great. No more facerolling, actual brain required.
Also, the reputation system, although it is clunky, I have to look at it from the perspective of their target playerbase: Not us vet players, but the new guys. The newly christened Vice Admirals and Lieutenant Generals. I did some quick calculations, and the devs were right. Most of us if we were lucky would pick up our first mk XII set within the first 200 or so ESTFs (ground-wise, space usually within the first 50 or so). We would then usually pick up our second around the 300 mark (space usually around 80-90 mark). From what I've calculated, the number of ESTFs you actually have to run has dropped dramatically for a mk XII ground set (again based off of conjecture, not fact, since I am not tier 5). Also it is easier to get the ground sets, since guess what, YOU NO LONGER HAVE TO RUN EGSTFs TO GET THE GROUND EQUIPMENT. Total bs imo (says the guy who had to do 175 successful IGE runs to get his first proto shield tech, to say nothing of the many failed pug rounds), but that's again aimed for the newbies, not the vets. Looking at it from that PoV, I suddenly see that it's actually easier. Not better mind you, since I say you aren't deserving of a full mk XII set unless you've done the room, been one shotted by armek, and taken a plasma bath (to say nothing of the hundreds of deaths from the plasma spewing heavy and elite tac drones).
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Sorry to dissapoint you in the "new Omega and reputation system" perhaps you might want to get some tissue paper to wipe out the tears...read this post for more information:
Don't think they did a real favor to players by adding another farming of goodies to STO...grinding still grinding no matter how you see it just another name.:cool:
I think like many times in the past the community as much as we hate certain things love others, we will simply do what we always do put up with it.
Simply because no matter how valid or invalid our arguements and points are for those of us who have been here since closed beta we know that no matter how hard you shout its like trying bang your head of a rubber wall.
Ultimatly we knew certain things were coming some good some not so good but do you honestly think after all this time the Dstahl and his team give 2 dog turds what we think or want.
So its a bad case of report the bugs like we always do, the fan boys will be fan boys and the folks with genuine gripes will end up getting TRIBBLE off and go play something else for a bit and the whiners while whine about everything.
So in summation New boss same as old boss your still screwed/unscrewed/existentialy fraked.
This is a good quote, but I think I'm going to disagree on one post.
I'm not putting up with it anymore.
I do have a life-time membership, bought when the game first launched, and because of that I'll log in periodically to see what my stipend will get me. I might even run some dailies from time to time, but for the most part, I'm done.
I'm one of the people who can't spend the time required to make this game fun. DStahl himself even said the design goal of the game is to have every player log in for 4 hours a day in order to reach the dilithium cap. I don't, generally, have 4 hours to sit in one setting. I might get close to 3 as my daughter is napping, but that's about as close as I get, and usually it's a lot less.
It's not fun, to me, to log in with my limited time allotment and just do one thing (grind dil). That doesn't include, btw, grinding for the new rep systems or anything else. That's just logging in with the intent to gain Dil.
No, you can't have my stuff, as I said I will log in from time to time. It just isn't going to be very often. Those of you who have decided to stick with Cryptic, I truly wish you the best, but I'm going to go check out Star Wars... I hear they went F2P last week with a much more user-friendly system.
This is a good quote, but I think I'm going to disagree on one post.
I'm not putting up with it anymore.
I do have a life-time membership, bought when the game first launched, and because of that I'll log in periodically to see what my stipend will get me. I might even run some dailies from time to time, but for the most part, I'm done.
I'm one of the people who can't spend the time required to make this game fun. DStahl himself even said the design goal of the game is to have every player log in for 4 hours a day in order to reach the dilithium cap. I don't, generally, have 4 hours to sit in one setting. I might get close to 3 as my daughter is napping, but that's about as close as I get, and usually it's a lot less.
It's not fun, to me, to log in with my limited time allotment and just do one thing (grind dil). That doesn't include, btw, grinding for the new rep systems or anything else. That's just logging in with the intent to gain Dil.
No, you can't have my stuff, as I said I will log in from time to time. It just isn't going to be very often. Those of you who have decided to stick with Cryptic, I truly wish you the best, but I'm going to go check out Star Wars... I hear they went F2P last week with a much more user-friendly system.
Peace and Long Life, STO!
Totally agree with you m8.... Too many other games out there for me to get all worked up about STO. Bummer.:(
STFs with no Loot Bags are like cheeseburgers with no cheese.
That is my biggest complain and let down from season 7.
Then there are the Doff upgrading costs matter and the ridiculously slow Reputation system.
To tell the truth, the game was way more entertaining before Season 7 for me, and it will reflect in my real money for Zen expenses. I certainly am not buying the Vesta until devs make another move to sweeten our pot.
STFs with no Loot Bags are like cheeseburgers with no cheese.
That is my biggest complain and let down from season 7.
Then there are the Doff upgrading costs matter and the ridiculously slow Reputation system.
To tell the truth, the game was way more entertaining before Season 7 for me, and it will reflect in my real money for Zen expenses. I certainly am not buying the Vesta until devs make another move to sweeten our pot.
Agreed.
On STF's I'd recommend bringing back the old reward system AS WELL as keeping the reputation system. Bingo both camps happy in one move. I realise thats quite a glib statement and that it would involved a lot of work but the idea is sound surely?
Those that miss the rewards and the excitement of "chance" can STF to their hearts content and those that dont like the STF's can grind for it.
And I think thats as important as the removal/reduction in the dilithium award....the missing feeling of chance. Will I get that proto? will I get to complete the set?...etc.
Excitement has been replaced with the mundane, the robotic.
(and if anyone mentions lockboxes in answer to chance...let me show you how the airlock works :P)
40 hours for a project cycle time? So this wasnt really made for players that have multiple toons then? As has been echoed many times, in many posts, and in much more colourful language....we work in RL, we dont need to work in our down time as well.
STFs with no Loot Bags are like cheeseburgers with no cheese.
That is my biggest complain and let down from season 7.
Then there are the Doff upgrading costs matter and the ridiculously slow Reputation system.
To tell the truth, the game was way more entertaining before Season 7 for me, and it will reflect in my real money for Zen expenses. I certainly am not buying the Vesta until devs make another move to sweeten our pot.
Wholeheartedly agree. I used to STF for hours trying to get the proto tech. And I was rewarded with good team-mates, peeps on my friends list, a few hundred thousand ecs (or millions depending on drops), and some dil. Take away the loot bag, and I just don't feel like playing. I log on, refine dil, advance rep system, do DOff missions, fly for a few minutes looking for more DOff missions, laugh at the TRIBBLE on DS9, then log off. On all toons.
I don't mind the removal of proto tech. I really don't. I DO however mind the complete removal of loot bags. Also the private queues being removed is just another wrench in the works. I am glad they gave us back the dil, but in all honesty, I enjoyed the random loot bags. I always got a minimum of 10k ECs (usually some crappy mk XI rare console), up to a maximum of a few million (a good mk XII blue or the like). They were the main reason I did the STFs (other than the chance to get the tech, and for the EDCs of course).
And now? No motivation. At all.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
STFs with no Loot Bags are like cheeseburgers with no cheese.
That is my biggest complain and let down from season 7.
Then there are the Doff upgrading costs matter and the ridiculously slow Reputation system.
To tell the truth, the game was way more entertaining before Season 7 for me, and it will reflect in my real money for Zen expenses. I certainly am not buying the Vesta until devs make another move to sweeten our pot.
Have you ever ordered a cheeseburger without cheese? The cashier looks at you funny and says "So....you want a hamburger?" And I say "No I want a cheeseburger with no cheese" And he says "A cheeseburger costs extra. It would be cheaper to just order a Hamburger" Then I say "That's not what I want. Give me a cheeseburger with no cheese". Then what happens? I get a cheeseburger with cheese on it. In the end I got what I asked for but not what I wanted.
I'm one of the people who can't spend the time required to make this game fun. DStahl himself even said the design goal of the game is to have every player log in for 4 hours a day in order to reach the dilithium cap.
I'm not going to contest some of the genuine grievances, nor your motives for quitting, but I will contest the claim that "the game" is to force players to log in for 4 hours a day, because it's not true at all.
Yes, one of the objectives of these new changes is to force players who want to reach the Dil cap within 3-4 hours (which was the AVERAGE session length, not the TARGET session length, as noted in the post) do more things than console-click or just do STFs over and over and over. Whether or not that was successful is a different discussion.
BUT, reaching your dil cap is NOT "the design goal of the game", just a design goal for the way endgame rewards are distributed. That might not sound like much of a difference, but it's a very important distinction to make.
I'm going to go check out Star Wars... I hear they went F2P last week with a much more user-friendly system.
Whoever you heard it from was dead wrong. You think the F2P monetization in this game is bad? A free player in the Old Republic is treated like a prisoner in a SuperMax. SWTOR's F2P philosophy is to hobble the free players with restrictions and inconveniences.
These inconveniences only disappear when you subscribe, at which point you realize you're actually just playing the most heavily WoW-derived MMO since, well, WoW, and WITHOUT the years of maturation that makes WoW a reasonably convenient game to play.
You think waiting two days to equip your endgame gear is bad? How about getting it, but not being able to WEAR IT unless you cough up some Cartel Coins? AND there is no system in place to grind in-game resources for Cartel Coin conversion. It's all real cash or nothing.
I'm not trying to discourage you from playing it (I'm playing it myself!), but I am warning you and anyone else away from the notion that they'll be able to play without paying a cent and still receive even a fraction of the "full" experience.
Here's the difference between STO and SWTOR's outlooks right now: With STO, I can say (as a lifetimer) that the player who chooses to pay nothing, at LEAST does NOT lose out. Those who pay GAIN, but those who don't at least do not LOSE (unless you're talking about PVP).
I cannot say the same for the free player in SWTOR. Not at this time, at least.
My suggestion is to at least pay $5 for the "Digital Upgrade" pack, which includes a mount and will automatically bump you up to "Preferred" status, i.e. the "not treated like scum on a stormtrooper's boot heel" status.
Speaking as a "preferred" player on TOR, we still get treat like (Rebel) scum on the boots of a Stormtrooper. Hell, one of my characters is guild master, and I can't even access my own guild bank because I'm not subbed. No mailing of items or credits, and only 2 character slots means that I can't use a character to equip a main. I am pleased to see that all the purples my main was wearing from before F2P she still has equipped.
Oh, and even as preferred, you still get a reduction on the amount of XP and credits you earn from missions. In fact, I'd say the only good point about TOR's F2P model is that it allows you to play through all of the story misssions without paying.
Sorry for the slight tangent, back on topic...
I understand where the OP is coming from, and for the most part agree. Sure, the new content is fun (apart from that damned trade mission, lol), but the devs do seem to be intent on making everything ingame a huge grindfest and/or a money grab.
Also, I did like Dan Stahl's warning in his dev blog about dilithium ("We are putting dilithium back into the STFs, but don't be surprised if it crashes the market"). Dilithium comes from more places in smaller amounts, with some of the obvious 'exploits' removed, adding time to the dilithium grind, making fewer people hit the cap (I suspect from personal experience, no proof), plus a load of new dilithium sinks designed to eat whatever dilithium you earn. Yet, the Dil/Zen exchange seems to suggest there is more dilithium in game as the price for Zen is dropping rapidly. Does this make sense to anyone else? Dilithium is harder to get, yet there is more in game.
Speaking as a "preferred" player on TOR, we still get treat like (Rebel) scum on the boots of a Stormtrooper. Hell, one of my characters is guild master, and I can't even access my own guild bank because I'm not subbed. No mailing of items or credits, and only 2 character slots means that I can't use a character to equip a main. I am pleased to see that all the purples my main was wearing from before F2P she still has equipped.
Oh, and even as preferred, you still get a reduction on the amount of XP and credits you earn from missions. In fact, I'd say the only good point about TOR's F2P model is that it allows you to play through all of the story misssions without paying.
Sorry for the slight tangent, back on topic...
I understand where the OP is coming from, and for the most part agree. Sure, the new content is fun (apart from that damned trade mission, lol), but the devs do seem to be intent on making everything ingame a huge grindfest and/or a money grab.
Also, I did like Dan Stahl's warning in his dev blog about dilithium ("We are putting dilithium back into the STFs, but don't be surprised if it crashes the market"). Dilithium comes from more places in smaller amounts, with some of the obvious 'exploits' removed, adding time to the dilithium grind, making fewer people hit the cap (I suspect from personal experience, no proof), plus a load of new dilithium sinks designed to eat whatever dilithium you earn. Yet, the Dil/Zen exchange seems to suggest there is more dilithium in game as the price for Zen is dropping rapidly. Does this make sense to anyone else? Dilithium is harder to get, yet there is more in game.
In the last 2 weeks, alot of people converted into Dilithium whatever they had left of Borg Salvages and EDC. So that might have boosted the Dilithium in the game.
Some players were sitting over 200 EDC and hundreds of other salvage parts so... If your account had multiple characters that did many STFs, suddenly converting all you had gave you a big boost of Dilithium ( 8000 Refinement for weeks without counting what you would gain by playing daily ).
You might be right there Tali. I guess we'll find out over the next month or so.
Dilithium is appreciating in Value not crashing.
Zen is crashing in value.
The reason is twofold.
1) Less spare dilithium to use on the exchange due to new sinks and a removal of 1/3rd of the STF's awarded dilithium (over the average of 5 games with at least 1 blue and purple tech or salvage...(around 9590 Dilithium)...(Current reward over 5 games is fixed at 5800))
This lack of spare dilithium I thought would be in someway ameliorated by everyone exploiting the bug cryptic introduced into the Starbase 24 Fleet event. However it has not and the Zen value continues to slide... this leads me to point 2.
2) Many players have built up reserves but are as expected in any uncertain economic period holding on to their savings... I am sure once Zen reaches a a low enough value the market will be temporarily flooded with dilithium however this will recede and we will return to low Zen prices again in short order... the Zen price may increase by a fraction say about 2-3 points when people reach Teir 5 in the reputation and can convert Marks to Dilithium.
Some of you seem to be confused if there was MORE Dilithium being shunted into the exchange the value of Dilithium would drop (abundant supply, non-scarcity) and consequently the value of Zen would increase they are tied together because the value is based on the rate of exchange. The REALITY is there is far less dilithium on the exchange and the valeu of Zen is as a result collapsing as there is now a shortage of dilithium sellers and and about the same amount of Zen sellers as there were before (maybe slighty less).
However with the current system in place spare dilithium will continue to be scarce and the Zen value will continue to be depressed barring a change in the system or direct manipulation of the exchange by Cryptic.
Hang on. If there was a glut in Dil, wouldn't that cause the price of Dil to zen to rise, not fall?
This is kinda what I was getting at (probably badly and making little sense), yet we see the price falling, making Zen less valuable in terms of dilithium.
The devs warned us that the market would crash because we wanted too much dil in game, and even though there are people sitting on stockpiles of the stuff, the price is dropping.
This lack of spare dilithium I thought would be in someway ameliorated by everyone exploiting the bug cryptic introduced into the Starbase 24 Fleet event. However it has not and the Zen value continues to slide...
That is probably because said bug isn't common public knowledge. I heard about people exploiting the private queue system to get dilithium really quickly, but no idea what that bug was. I suspect SB24 is much the same. Even though a lot of the dilithium system seems to be the devs trying to exploit us players, not all players try to exploit the game.
This is kinda what I was getting at (probably badly and making little sense), yet we see the price falling, making Zen less valuable in terms of dilithium.
The devs warned us that the market would crash because we wanted too much dil in game, and even though there are people sitting on stockpiles of the stuff, the price is dropping.
I wonder why that could be...
If the devs did in fact say that then the devs are lying or have no idea about supply and demand economics. Why would making Dilithium so abundant that more and more of it reached the exchange make Zen worth less? If there is more Dilithium than Zen on the exchange then Zen automatically becomes more valuable. If the devs wanted to increase the value of Zen against dilithium they would flood the exchange with dilithium by increasing dilithium rewards.
If you are right about them saying it then they are either ignorant or intentionally deceiving people.
More Dilithium on the Exchange = More valuable Zen.
As for the SB24 believe me there were a fair amount of people doing it, I won't call it an exploit because it was Cryptics fault... no one TRIBBLE anything.
The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy.
I take this to mean 'We'll see how it goes, but if we decide that you are getting too many Zen for your dilithium, we will artificially inflate the prices.'
I take this to mean 'We'll see how it goes, but if we decide that you are getting too many Zen for your dilithium, we will artificially inflate the prices.'
If people are getting too much Zen for their Dilithium it means there's NOT ENOUGH dilithium on the exchange and the only people to blame for that are CRYPTIC who have taken too much dilithium out of the game and created too many dilithium sinks.
I find it hilarious that he doesn't want players worrying about the economy, since Season 7: Dilithium CockUp thats all players in the know have been worrying about.
As I see it, Craptic nerfed players' dil income in order to cause dil shortage on exchange; this way a paying player has to buy more zen for $ in order to fill dil sinks. Thats the only part of ingame economy they care about. Market will be fairly stable as long as there are players sitting on piles of unrefined ore. When they refine their supplies and fill sinks or convert to zen, exchange rate will plummet. Huge shortage of dil and Craptic not wanting to fix this by artificially adding dil to exchange. Said players will have to grind dil with reduced efficiency or use their wallets. Pay more $ for less dil.
Obvious cash grab is obvious.
May 2013, automatic permanent ban for mentioning gold-seller sites pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should. moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
As I see it, Craptic nerfed players' dil income in order to cause dil shortage on exchange; this way a paying player has to buy more zen for $ in order to fill dil sinks. Thats the only part of ingame economy they care about. Market will be fairly stable as long as there are players sitting on piles of unrefined ore. When they refine their supplies and fill sinks or convert to zen, exchange rate will plummet. Huge shortage of dil and Craptic not wanting to fix this by artificially adding dil to exchange. Said players will have to grind dil with reduced efficiency or use their wallets. Pay more $ for less dil.
Obvious cash grab is obvious.
Hehe tell me something we don't know.
It was so obvious that no amount of PR Propaganda from Stahl was going to cover up the reality of what this is.
If people are getting too much Zen for their Dilithium it means there's NOT ENOUGH dilithium on the exchange and the only people to blame for that are CRYPTIC who have taken too much dilithium out of the game and created too many dilithium sinks.
I find it hilarious that he doesn't want players worrying about the economy, since Season 7: Dilithium CockUp thats all players in the know have been worrying about.
My guess is that Stahl thought the glut of dilithium pushed into the game by pre-season 7 salvage conversions and a high demand for Zen from Vesta sales would cause a surge of dilithium into the market. That's not an unreasonable conclusion, but it ignores player speculation about a controversial economic change.
Folks have been speculating and holding their dilithium for weeks now with new of the reduced faucets and increased sinks, and as you said an uncertain market means people hold onto their purses while they feel things out.
I'm still at a complete loss as to how they believe the new system will actually increase dilithium refinement on a player by player basis. It's completely at odds with the new system that's in place, and I can't tell if there is just some sort of fundamental disconnect or if they are just bold face lying
Comments
Yes, for two months at most. Provided they don't add a mandatory and insane dilithium sink in the meantime. Something like paying for logging in, for ship bullets, or some TRIBBLE of this kind. If they do then we can start to complain, but for now all you have to do is to make choices. It's frustrating but if you're frustrated it means they won this match because that will make you stay around for a while till you achieve all your goals or to pay for this. In both case they win. :P
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Well now.. let's see. I'm trying to use the doff system, gain personal reputation with TWO factions, contribute to my fleet starbase, contribute to my fleet embassy, run FA's for marks for the fleet and for my fleet creds, and run STF's to upgrade ship and personal gear. There is no time to craft, no time to do a red alert, no time to scan anomalys, no time to play storyline missions for fun, no time for random encounters... I've gotta hurry hurry! I've only got an hour today to play, maybe two hours the other days... and five hours one day a week. So one day a week when I get the above list done, I'll have some time to relax and actually look on the game with my eyes... enjoy the scenery.. the content.
It's all a dilithium sink and grind now. Or a real life money grind to buy zen and convert into dilithium. Sure I do not have to do everything. Sure I do not have to be a "completionist". But I came here to enjoy the Star Trek Genre and be a casual player. Now it feels like the majority of other MMO's. Hurry to level, and get ready for the grind, you might get 1/4 of the things you'd like to have done before the next season.
You know, I just realized I have you on my friends list in game XD. However you are correct, DOffs are still pretty easy to get, AS LONG AS YOU KNOW YOUR LIMITS. If you know you only have X amount of refined dil to give to this, then you only give that X amount, and worry about getting more later. But he's right. If you can't do both starbase/embassy and DOffs effectively, then pick whichever one is more important, and slow the other one down.
And I think that was the thing I realized watching S7 take shape. I rolled several new toons last summer to dilithium farm. I could farm 32k - 40k a night without a lot of effort. It just meant doing a couple dailies and then STF's. I saw the changes being made were specifically designed to stop that.
That's what I've been doing: adapting. First week I've really only played on my two main Fed toons. I've found I've gone from earning 32k dilithium to about 10k. But I'm also having a lot more fun. It's nice to have a reason to do SB24 and Gorn minefield again rather than the same STF's over and over again. I think Mine Trap is best ground mission I've played yet. I've also gone back to breaking the planet and big dig and discovered that they aren't that bad. I never did them before because you didn't get anything for them once you reached level 50.
The discussion on our TS now that most people have enough marks on their main toons for a while is "So what do we want to do for fun?". And that's a good thing.
I do agree that loot should be added back in for STF optionals. I mean give us a reason to try and get the optional. Also having loot at the end of an STF for a chance of some rare/very rare item on elite and maybe common/uncommon on normal wouldn't be a bad idea either.
It wasn't until this season launched that I realized pretty much all our fleet did was run STF's and try to max out dilithium on as many toons as possible. Now I see people wanted to do other things including PVP.
I think a lot depends on why you play the game? To collect virtual items and currency that goes away when the game does or do you play to have fun. Once I got over the initial shock of "I can't get 30k dilithium with very little effort" and figured out, hey let's go have fun things got a lot better.
And from what I've seen in the fleet it breaks down across the mentality. Those of us who want to play to have fun are doing so. Those who seemed to have the goal of collecting as much in game money as possible are frustrated and talking about leaving.
That's my $.02.
It's a f2p game, what in the hell do you expect?
Not really. It takes me all of 30 minutes every 2 days to get enough Omega and Romulan marks to keep my reputation running, actually significantly less than that at the lower tiers. I can also farm omega marks and gear to sell at the same time I'm farming dilithium (STFs & Fleet actions).
Again, there seems to be this big race with filling Fleet Starbase missions. Just take your time and donate what you can. Starbases are suppose to be extremely longterm projects. The world isn't going to end if you don't fill up a starbase project at fast as humanly possible, it's not going anywhere.
*Takes out more popcorn and continues to watch the spectacle from his lawn chair*
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
And now ... they will tear players apart .
"Working as intended ... yeeessss ! " :cool:
I will never ever spend another dime of real world money on this game ever ever ever ever.
Sorry to dissapoint you in the "new Omega and reputation system" perhaps you might want to get some tissue paper to wipe out the tears...read this post for more information:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=452031
Don't think they did a real favor to players by adding another farming of goodies to STO...grinding still grinding no matter how you see it just another name.:cool:
This is a good quote, but I think I'm going to disagree on one post.
I'm not putting up with it anymore.
I do have a life-time membership, bought when the game first launched, and because of that I'll log in periodically to see what my stipend will get me. I might even run some dailies from time to time, but for the most part, I'm done.
I'm one of the people who can't spend the time required to make this game fun. DStahl himself even said the design goal of the game is to have every player log in for 4 hours a day in order to reach the dilithium cap. I don't, generally, have 4 hours to sit in one setting. I might get close to 3 as my daughter is napping, but that's about as close as I get, and usually it's a lot less.
It's not fun, to me, to log in with my limited time allotment and just do one thing (grind dil). That doesn't include, btw, grinding for the new rep systems or anything else. That's just logging in with the intent to gain Dil.
No, you can't have my stuff, as I said I will log in from time to time. It just isn't going to be very often. Those of you who have decided to stick with Cryptic, I truly wish you the best, but I'm going to go check out Star Wars... I hear they went F2P last week with a much more user-friendly system.
Peace and Long Life, STO!
Totally agree with you m8.... Too many other games out there for me to get all worked up about STO. Bummer.:(
That is my biggest complain and let down from season 7.
Then there are the Doff upgrading costs matter and the ridiculously slow Reputation system.
To tell the truth, the game was way more entertaining before Season 7 for me, and it will reflect in my real money for Zen expenses. I certainly am not buying the Vesta until devs make another move to sweeten our pot.
Agreed.
On STF's I'd recommend bringing back the old reward system AS WELL as keeping the reputation system. Bingo both camps happy in one move. I realise thats quite a glib statement and that it would involved a lot of work but the idea is sound surely?
Those that miss the rewards and the excitement of "chance" can STF to their hearts content and those that dont like the STF's can grind for it.
And I think thats as important as the removal/reduction in the dilithium award....the missing feeling of chance. Will I get that proto? will I get to complete the set?...etc.
Excitement has been replaced with the mundane, the robotic.
(and if anyone mentions lockboxes in answer to chance...let me show you how the airlock works :P)
40 hours for a project cycle time? So this wasnt really made for players that have multiple toons then? As has been echoed many times, in many posts, and in much more colourful language....we work in RL, we dont need to work in our down time as well.
Wholeheartedly agree. I used to STF for hours trying to get the proto tech. And I was rewarded with good team-mates, peeps on my friends list, a few hundred thousand ecs (or millions depending on drops), and some dil. Take away the loot bag, and I just don't feel like playing. I log on, refine dil, advance rep system, do DOff missions, fly for a few minutes looking for more DOff missions, laugh at the TRIBBLE on DS9, then log off. On all toons.
I don't mind the removal of proto tech. I really don't. I DO however mind the complete removal of loot bags. Also the private queues being removed is just another wrench in the works. I am glad they gave us back the dil, but in all honesty, I enjoyed the random loot bags. I always got a minimum of 10k ECs (usually some crappy mk XI rare console), up to a maximum of a few million (a good mk XII blue or the like). They were the main reason I did the STFs (other than the chance to get the tech, and for the EDCs of course).
And now? No motivation. At all.
Have you ever ordered a cheeseburger without cheese? The cashier looks at you funny and says "So....you want a hamburger?" And I say "No I want a cheeseburger with no cheese" And he says "A cheeseburger costs extra. It would be cheaper to just order a Hamburger" Then I say "That's not what I want. Give me a cheeseburger with no cheese". Then what happens? I get a cheeseburger with cheese on it. In the end I got what I asked for but not what I wanted.
I'm not going to contest some of the genuine grievances, nor your motives for quitting, but I will contest the claim that "the game" is to force players to log in for 4 hours a day, because it's not true at all.
Yes, one of the objectives of these new changes is to force players who want to reach the Dil cap within 3-4 hours (which was the AVERAGE session length, not the TARGET session length, as noted in the post) do more things than console-click or just do STFs over and over and over. Whether or not that was successful is a different discussion.
BUT, reaching your dil cap is NOT "the design goal of the game", just a design goal for the way endgame rewards are distributed. That might not sound like much of a difference, but it's a very important distinction to make.
Whoever you heard it from was dead wrong. You think the F2P monetization in this game is bad? A free player in the Old Republic is treated like a prisoner in a SuperMax. SWTOR's F2P philosophy is to hobble the free players with restrictions and inconveniences.
These inconveniences only disappear when you subscribe, at which point you realize you're actually just playing the most heavily WoW-derived MMO since, well, WoW, and WITHOUT the years of maturation that makes WoW a reasonably convenient game to play.
You think waiting two days to equip your endgame gear is bad? How about getting it, but not being able to WEAR IT unless you cough up some Cartel Coins? AND there is no system in place to grind in-game resources for Cartel Coin conversion. It's all real cash or nothing.
I'm not trying to discourage you from playing it (I'm playing it myself!), but I am warning you and anyone else away from the notion that they'll be able to play without paying a cent and still receive even a fraction of the "full" experience.
Here's the difference between STO and SWTOR's outlooks right now: With STO, I can say (as a lifetimer) that the player who chooses to pay nothing, at LEAST does NOT lose out. Those who pay GAIN, but those who don't at least do not LOSE (unless you're talking about PVP).
I cannot say the same for the free player in SWTOR. Not at this time, at least.
My suggestion is to at least pay $5 for the "Digital Upgrade" pack, which includes a mount and will automatically bump you up to "Preferred" status, i.e. the "not treated like scum on a stormtrooper's boot heel" status.
Oh, and even as preferred, you still get a reduction on the amount of XP and credits you earn from missions. In fact, I'd say the only good point about TOR's F2P model is that it allows you to play through all of the story misssions without paying.
Sorry for the slight tangent, back on topic...
I understand where the OP is coming from, and for the most part agree. Sure, the new content is fun (apart from that damned trade mission, lol), but the devs do seem to be intent on making everything ingame a huge grindfest and/or a money grab.
Also, I did like Dan Stahl's warning in his dev blog about dilithium ("We are putting dilithium back into the STFs, but don't be surprised if it crashes the market"). Dilithium comes from more places in smaller amounts, with some of the obvious 'exploits' removed, adding time to the dilithium grind, making fewer people hit the cap (I suspect from personal experience, no proof), plus a load of new dilithium sinks designed to eat whatever dilithium you earn. Yet, the Dil/Zen exchange seems to suggest there is more dilithium in game as the price for Zen is dropping rapidly. Does this make sense to anyone else? Dilithium is harder to get, yet there is more in game.
In the last 2 weeks, alot of people converted into Dilithium whatever they had left of Borg Salvages and EDC. So that might have boosted the Dilithium in the game.
Some players were sitting over 200 EDC and hundreds of other salvage parts so... If your account had multiple characters that did many STFs, suddenly converting all you had gave you a big boost of Dilithium ( 8000 Refinement for weeks without counting what you would gain by playing daily ).
Dilithium is appreciating in Value not crashing.
Zen is crashing in value.
The reason is twofold.
1) Less spare dilithium to use on the exchange due to new sinks and a removal of 1/3rd of the STF's awarded dilithium (over the average of 5 games with at least 1 blue and purple tech or salvage...(around 9590 Dilithium)...(Current reward over 5 games is fixed at 5800))
This lack of spare dilithium I thought would be in someway ameliorated by everyone exploiting the bug cryptic introduced into the Starbase 24 Fleet event. However it has not and the Zen value continues to slide... this leads me to point 2.
2) Many players have built up reserves but are as expected in any uncertain economic period holding on to their savings... I am sure once Zen reaches a a low enough value the market will be temporarily flooded with dilithium however this will recede and we will return to low Zen prices again in short order... the Zen price may increase by a fraction say about 2-3 points when people reach Teir 5 in the reputation and can convert Marks to Dilithium.
Some of you seem to be confused if there was MORE Dilithium being shunted into the exchange the value of Dilithium would drop (abundant supply, non-scarcity) and consequently the value of Zen would increase they are tied together because the value is based on the rate of exchange. The REALITY is there is far less dilithium on the exchange and the valeu of Zen is as a result collapsing as there is now a shortage of dilithium sellers and and about the same amount of Zen sellers as there were before (maybe slighty less).
However with the current system in place spare dilithium will continue to be scarce and the Zen value will continue to be depressed barring a change in the system or direct manipulation of the exchange by Cryptic.
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This is kinda what I was getting at (probably badly and making little sense), yet we see the price falling, making Zen less valuable in terms of dilithium.
The devs warned us that the market would crash because we wanted too much dil in game, and even though there are people sitting on stockpiles of the stuff, the price is dropping.
I wonder why that could be...
Edit:
That is probably because said bug isn't common public knowledge. I heard about people exploiting the private queue system to get dilithium really quickly, but no idea what that bug was. I suspect SB24 is much the same. Even though a lot of the dilithium system seems to be the devs trying to exploit us players, not all players try to exploit the game.
If the devs did in fact say that then the devs are lying or have no idea about supply and demand economics. Why would making Dilithium so abundant that more and more of it reached the exchange make Zen worth less? If there is more Dilithium than Zen on the exchange then Zen automatically becomes more valuable. If the devs wanted to increase the value of Zen against dilithium they would flood the exchange with dilithium by increasing dilithium rewards.
If you are right about them saying it then they are either ignorant or intentionally deceiving people.
More Dilithium on the Exchange = More valuable Zen.
As for the SB24 believe me there were a fair amount of people doing it, I won't call it an exploit because it was Cryptics fault... no one TRIBBLE anything.
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In this post right here.
I take this to mean 'We'll see how it goes, but if we decide that you are getting too many Zen for your dilithium, we will artificially inflate the prices.'
If people are getting too much Zen for their Dilithium it means there's NOT ENOUGH dilithium on the exchange and the only people to blame for that are CRYPTIC who have taken too much dilithium out of the game and created too many dilithium sinks.
I find it hilarious that he doesn't want players worrying about the economy, since Season 7: Dilithium CockUp thats all players in the know have been worrying about.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Obvious cash grab is obvious.
pwebranflakes: this system is currently in place and working the way it should.
moradum: I got banned for saying "I started my day with cutting off 3 MM off of the bottom of my cabinet"
Hehe tell me something we don't know.
It was so obvious that no amount of PR Propaganda from Stahl was going to cover up the reality of what this is.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
My guess is that Stahl thought the glut of dilithium pushed into the game by pre-season 7 salvage conversions and a high demand for Zen from Vesta sales would cause a surge of dilithium into the market. That's not an unreasonable conclusion, but it ignores player speculation about a controversial economic change.
Folks have been speculating and holding their dilithium for weeks now with new of the reduced faucets and increased sinks, and as you said an uncertain market means people hold onto their purses while they feel things out.
I'm still at a complete loss as to how they believe the new system will actually increase dilithium refinement on a player by player basis. It's completely at odds with the new system that's in place, and I can't tell if there is just some sort of fundamental disconnect or if they are just bold face lying