Well, I'm glad the STFs now have Dilithium, but the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I also hate the corporate speak in the recent posts; makes my skin crawl.
I think the Fleet actions should be unnerfed, because really, what's the difference if we have more options in how we get our Dilithium. I also think that the ground for both STFs and Fleet Actions should get more Dilithiums/marks, because otherwise, no one will play those.
I started playing this when the game went free to play. Say what you will about us F2P players, but I honestly don't have the money nor interest to pay a monthly sub just for a single game when I can pick and chose what to purchase on multiple F2P games that will keep my interest in playing those games much longer than just one game.
I went from level 0-50 in six games of playing, and of course the next logical action was to start running the STFs. Within a week I was already bored of running the stfs, BUT just like with "Tour" the reward outweighs the boredom.
Personally I like the fact that they have spread Dilithium over a larger amount of actions to give some what more variety, but yes it's still a grind.
I would still like to see the 8k cap raised to 10k thou simply because of the increased systems needing Dilithium.
So Dan or anyone else with the knowledge on the economics part of the game I have a question for you please:
Would the 2-3k increase of the dilithium cap really effect the in-game economics that much now that there are all these different systems in place needing Dilithium??
Holy Frak someone who made sense in all this un-necessary hoopla...
Thanks STO community! Now I get to run 3!!! STF's to equal the dil I could get from one 10-15 minute Starbase 24. You seem to think this is an improvement. I was quite looking forward to only doing 1-2 elite STF's a week for marks while spending the rest of the time playing the much easier, no teamwork needed Starbase for my dil. Now I get to go back to the 'ol STF grind for my dil because the community is bad at math and trying new things.
They were trying to help us, and you told them, "Stop it! We like it terrible!"
You are not being fair here!
We did not ask for Dilithium Rewards to be reduced in Fleet Actions!
We asked that the "hardest" and most tactical content of the game, the STF, get back his RIGHTFUL reward!
Even now as we speak, i still believe we are getting screwed, but now all the playerbase is getting screwed, not just STFers.
To make things RIGHT, devs should have left things as they were in FA and simply hold to their word and put back Dilithium in STF as IT WAS PROMISED at first!
The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world.
-How does Dilithium Trade factor into all of this?-
While the Dilithium Trading economy is entirely the realm of players trading with other players, our goal with the Dilithium changes in Season 7 is to stay out of the way as much as possible while increasing the amount of Dilithium earned on average by level 50 players.
We expect the market to fluctuate as players find the new balance, but in general we want players earning Dilithium to get a decent amount of Zen for their trade so that players who are putting in the most effort to earn Dilithium can find a market to trade the time they?ve spent in the game for Zen.
They say they leave the economy "ENTIRELY" up to the players and want to "stay out of the way as much as possible", in the next paragraph they insinuate they are trying to manipulate us into changing the economy, i.e. "we want players earning dilithium to get a decent amount of Zen for their trade". I don't see this ending well at all. I haven't seen the players say it is THEIR goal to have the economy changed.
Earlier in the Dev blog post there is this:
-Pre-Season 7 Dilithium Concerns-
Concern 1 ? Active level 50 players are refining far less Dilithium than we expect them to.
Prior to Season 7, the average amount of Dilithium refined by an active level 50 player was 3100 per session or 13,250 per week. That is far less than the cap of 8000 per day when you consider that most level 50 players play multiple days per week and slightly more than the average hours per session.
Of course this means we WON'T see the 8k refine cap removed/raised any time soon since according to them, there aren't enough players hitting their cap or more to warrant such a change. I'm gonna say that this makes me conclude they are going for inflating the Zen price. "Players are refining far less dilithium than we "EXPECT" them too" and the fact they are saying they want to make it easier to get Dilithium.
#1 Allow us ways and incentives to refine more Dilithium thus hitting our daily 8k limit or more.
#2 More Dilithium in game means Zen prices go up due to more demand for Zen.
#3 Due to higher demand for Zen, players need to buy more Zen to exchange for Dilithium to meet their Dilithium needs
#4 Due to more Zen being sold the company makes more money
Side note: I think the reason for the new/increased Dilithium costs for doffs at the accademy (general recruitment, reassign underperforming) is to coerce people to be more willing to buy Zen and spend it on doff packs in the C-store (hence the recent bug ship/lobi crystal/other TRIBBLE rewards in the 1 particular C-store doff pack, and they make more money)
In the end everybody is happy. Cryptic/PWE makes more money, and the players (well the teenagers that are left with parents who have high limit credit cards) enjoy the new and cool stuff added to the game. :P
It's not about getting us to play less popular content. It's about getting us to earn more Dilithium, spend it on Zen, and sellers having to buy more Zen to meet the demand that will ensue eventually. Just my take on the whole thing.
THAT is not the problem, not by a long shoot because you just replaced one Dilithium Grind (STFs) with another (Fleet Actions).
The problem is Omega Marks.
There is NO solo content for Omega Marks besides the "[easy]" missions on Defera that pay little and they are not exactly solo friendly either that leaves with the question of how players can enter STFs without being properly geared but also what happens when nobody queues.
In 3-4 months people that play STFs will be done, they would have zero incentive to play STFs after that point and so many people that currently run STFs would stop, in part because as they grant no Dilithium amassing the amounts for extra sets would be a "double grind", in one side they would have to grind for Marks and on the other for Dilithium and since they could not do both at the same time and having extra sets serves no real reason we would start looking at longer and longer queue times until we ended up with the same situation as Fleet Actions, few to none would be playing then.
If there was no Dilithium cost attached to Set gear then yes, I could understand removing the Dilithium reward but that is not what happen? even you are putting more Dilithium sources in then you sure as hell are also adding Dilithium sinks (Embassy, Omege and Romulan Stores) and if people are "hoarding it" ... well my Advance Fleet weapon comes with a 10,000 Dilithium tag AS WELL as Fleet Mark price, you want to remove Dilithium? fine ... but also remove Dilithium COSTS from the game since everything useful apparently comes with one, down to DOFFs.
it may not be solo...but the borg sector invasions areas give 10 omega marks and 480 dilth pre block per day....not to shabby if you ask me lol
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
You still thought it was a good idea to force your players/customers to play the game in a way you found acceptable; for an amount of time per day you found acceptable, not taking into consideration if it was what they wanted or would enjoy.
You still completely ignored your player/customer feedback about your coming changes and did what you wanted, reguardless.
This is in no way good business practice. You do not ignore what custmers tell you, then tell your customers what you have decided it is they want. And you most certainly never lie to them. Not if you wish for them to remain customers for long.
As everyone else is; I am glad that you decided to re-think some of your recent decisions; and to actually take into account what it is the players/customers would like. This is definately an improvement we are all happy with.
But this never should have been an issue in the first place; and the damage is done. Restoring players/custoners confidence in you is going to take time and considerably more then an "oops, our bad" post on your part.
If I wanted this attitude of the company telling me what I want and be frelling happy with it, I would be playing EA games on Origin. The fact of the matter is, I don't and won't because EA's customer service pulls these sort of stunts CONSTANTLY.
While I'm thankful that the decision has been reversed, I can tell you I am one of those folk that's going to take a considerably long time to regain my trust (and confidence) in this. Oh, I'll still play, though it will be for considerably less time because I'm finding the requirement times for the Omega and Romulan tiers to be positively draconian. More than 36 hours to go from Tier 0 to Tier 1 (when Fleet projects at those levels were considerably less?) This qualifies as sucktastically poor grind. And earning the Romulan Marks on New Romulus stinks of the grinding I would expect in Blizzard North's World of ********.
Makes me regret not going and helping on Tribble. Not that it seemed to matter given it took backlash for Cryptic/PWE to listen
I recall the statement made in the discussion about dilithium about concerns over players 'not refining enough dilithium ore', and that got me thinking...
To make it more accessible to players, why not further increase the rewards given, particularly with the dilithium costs associated with the fleet starbase/embassy projects (especially the special projects, that eat up 200,000 dilithium) and the higher tier reputation projects (requisitions and unlocks). Here's what I'd like to propose:
1. Leave the Fleet Action dilithium rewards and cooldowns where they are right now.
2. STFs, which require serious amounts of teamwork just to complete and also achieve the optional objectives deserve large dilithium rewards for those who run them. Bump up the rewards for them to reflect the skill needed and reduce the cooldown for these missions by half.
Normal STFs = 720 dilithium.
Bonus objective = 10% bonus to dilthium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Elite STFs = 1,440 dilithium
Bonus objective = 25% bonus to dilithium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same
Borg Neural Processors stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Holy Frak someone who made sense in all this un-necessary hoopla...
thanks I appreciate that.
There's so many numbers that they have to try to balance out that sometimes they just seem to get lost in the numbers. If people could step back and realize that in all of that sometimes they will get lost in trying to balance the numbers and it'll take a bit for them to realize it and come up with a strategy things would go so much smoother.
In the end we've gained more variety in getting Dilithium, granted not the high numbers that people want, but now there's more variety at least and that's a start. more dil per action whatever that might be really isn't the answer to everyone's prayers because in the end there's still the 8k cap.
More ways to get Dilithium and again as I suggested before a small increase to 10k or 11k for golds/lifers would take the pressure off which system to put Dilithium in. The only other suggestion I would make would be to decrease dil requirements to an even 1500 or 2000 for a project compared to something that between 1500-2000. For example taking an 1800 dil requirement and putting it either at 1500 or 2000. Then it becomes a much simpler balancing issue for players on when/where to spend Dilithium.
After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.
There have been numerous posts explaining the rationale that went into the reward changes and I can clearly state that our goal of getting more Dilithium into the average player has been very successful. As the data suggested, there is a huge contingent of players that simply do not play STFs but are eager to earn Dilithium in other content. These players are benefiting from the addition of Dilithium in the Fleet Actions, so that worked well.
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
Season 7 is an awesome content filled update that the team is very proud of that has been overshadowed by player frustrations over the Dilithium changes. Cryptic has and always will take player feedback into consideration when making decisions and this is a case where we agree with the players that Dilithium should be back in the STFs. It is more fun to run STFs when you can earn Dilithium towards end game gear and no amount of data driven logic can outweigh this.
So here are the changes we'll be making in a maintenance build by the end of this week.
Normal STF runs will grant 480 Dilithium
Elite STF runs will grant 960 Dilithium
Space Fleet Action runs will grant 480 Dilithium
Ground Fleet Action runs will grant 640 Dilithium
This is in addition to the other rewards that STFs and Fleet Actions grant.
While this is still a change from Season 6, we hope that these new amounts will help the average player earn more Dilithium per day while maintaining the Dilithium that players who like to run STFs were receiving.
The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world.
Thank you for your patience and for being the best community of any MMO.
- dstahl
(p.s. the web team has updated the blog I posted last night with these changes to help cut down on confusion.)
The key lesson everyone should take from this is, without Cryptic/PWE we would not have STO, BUT, but without US there is no STO either.
Before MAJOR changes occur that could impact core gameplay that addicts like myself (hardcore elite player) depend on for happy happy fun times, you know what I would like to see happen?
Surveys.
Lots of surveys. For instance if you took 50 players and asked them "hey how would you feel if you lost dil from a bunch of stuff, and yet more stuff cost dil? would you keep playing that content? would you play other stuff?" This whole entire mess could have been avoided entirely.
I'm sure you can read between the lines for this, you have devs and designers who build the game, come up with content, come up with concepts. But you are forgetting your BEST resource. The players. For a lot of us, we live, breathe, sleep and think Star Trek.
Finally I just want to say thank you for ignoring (hopefully) the MASSIVE nerdrage you guys were subjected to, thanks for the changes, I don't mind a minor reduction in dil from elites, that's fine, it was one of my suggestions, to spread things out a little bit.
Now I will be happy to do my normal grind, collecting borg processors and stuff along with my dil. I can survive not getting bonus loot. If I offended anyone with any of my posts earlier today I apologize, but you know about people and their opinions....
After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs.
This is a good change, but I still think you should add small amounts of dilithium to mission replays and most PvE queue instances, and remove dilithium from the basic embassy projects.
I recall the statement made in the discussion about dilithium about concerns over players 'not refining enough dilithium ore', and that got me thinking...
To make it more accessible to players, why not further increase the rewards given, particularly with the dilithium costs associated with the fleet starbase/embassy projects (especially the special projects, that eat up 200,000 dilithium) and the higher tier reputation projects (requisitions and unlocks). Here's what I'd like to propose:
1. Leave the Fleet Action dilithium rewards and cooldowns where they are right now.
2. STFs, which require serious amounts of teamwork just to complete and also achieve the optional objectives deserve large dilithium rewards for those who run them. Bump up the rewards for them to reflect the skill needed and reduce the cooldown for these missions by half.
Normal STFs = 720 dilithium.
Bonus objective = 10% bonus to dilthium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Elite STFs = 1,440 dilithium
Bonus objective = 25% bonus to dilithium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same
Borg Neural Processors stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
The key lesson everyone should take from this is, without Cryptic/PWE we would not have STO, BUT, but without US there is no STO either.
Before MAJOR changes occur that could impact core gameplay that addicts like myself (hardcore elite player) depend on for happy happy fun times, you know what I would like to see happen?
Surveys.
Lots of surveys. For instance if you took 50 players and asked them "hey how would you feel if you lost dil from a bunch of stuff, and yet more stuff cost dil? would you keep playing that content? would you play other stuff?" This whole entire mess could have been avoided entirely.
I'm sure you can read between the lines for this, you have devs and designers who build the game, come up with content, come up with concepts. But you are forgetting your BEST resource. The players. For a lot of us, we live, breathe, sleep and think Star Trek.
Finally I just want to say thank you for ignoring (hopefully) the MASSIVE nerdrage you guys were subjected to, thanks for the changes, I don't mind a minor reduction in dil from elites, that's fine, it was one of my suggestions, to spread things out a little bit.
Now I will be happy to do my normal grind, collecting borg processors and stuff along with my dil. I can survive not getting bonus loot. If I offended anyone with any of my posts earlier today I apologize, but you know about people and their opinions....
Cheers!
What is the point of surveys if they don't listen to player feedback in the first place until everybody gets pissed? Isn't that the reason why Dstahl created this thread to announce a half-assed reversal on some Dilithium changes?
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
Since season 7 hit the Tribble server people have been complaining about the reduced Dilithium rewards in STFs. Then when season 7 launches the Dilithium rewards in STFs are completely gone after it was already announced, and promised, they would still be there with the amounts as it were on the test server. And people have also been upset about the General Recruitment/Reassign Underperforming doff assignments at the academy costing Dilithium and/or having their costs increased.
What is the point of surveys if they don't listen to player feedback in the first place until everybody gets pissed? Isn't that the reason why Dstahl created this thread to announce a half-assed reversal on some Dilithium changes?
Since season 7 hit the Tribble server people have been complaining about the reduced Dilithium rewards in STFs. Then when season 7 launches the Dilithium rewards in STFs are completely gone after it was already announced, and promised, they would still be there with the amounts as it were on the test server. And people have also been upset about the General Recruitment/Reassign Underperforming doff assignments at the academy costing Dilithium and/or having their costs increased.
My point was, maybe they should listen to the player base more? To prevent blow ups, to prevent devs from looking like asses by having to reverse a decision.
I'm a lifetime subscriber, plus I buy stuff from the z-store, I like to think the game I support takes my opinions into account, doesn't everyone feel they should have a say? Of course they do.
Every single person on this planet is opinionated in one form or another.
Elite stf's are like crack, and what happens with you take an addicts crack away from him? You get the friggin bull that's what you get. Change needs to be gradual, not abrupt ugly and painful. You'd be surprised what a person can handle when the change comes slowly enough that you don't really notice it.
After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.
There have been numerous posts explaining the rationale that went into the reward changes and I can clearly state that our goal of getting more Dilithium into the average player has been very successful. As the data suggested, there is a huge contingent of players that simply do not play STFs but are eager to earn Dilithium in other content. These players are benefiting from the addition of Dilithium in the Fleet Actions, so that worked well.
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
Season 7 is an awesome content filled update that the team is very proud of that has been overshadowed by player frustrations over the Dilithium changes. Cryptic has and always will take player feedback into consideration when making decisions and this is a case where we agree with the players that Dilithium should be back in the STFs. It is more fun to run STFs when you can earn Dilithium towards end game gear and no amount of data driven logic can outweigh this.
So here are the changes we'll be making in a maintenance build by the end of this week.
Normal STF runs will grant 480 Dilithium
Elite STF runs will grant 960 Dilithium
Space Fleet Action runs will grant 480 Dilithium
Ground Fleet Action runs will grant 640 Dilithium
This is in addition to the other rewards that STFs and Fleet Actions grant.
While this is still a change from Season 6, we hope that these new amounts will help the average player earn more Dilithium per day while maintaining the Dilithium that players who like to run STFs were receiving.
The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world.
Thank you for your patience and for being the best community of any MMO.
- dstahl
(p.s. the web team has updated the blog I posted last night with these changes to help cut down on confusion.)
Im quite amased, and stunned really,
You aktually turned season 7 into a very very good season and all u had to do was put back the dilithium for us who fought hard against the evil borgys.
i might aktually start to like you again!
i approve of this and i also have to personally congratulate you.
takeing back a decision you once made and thought was right is no little task.
well done a honest and very accurate well done much apriciated and again well done.
we cannot thank you enough for putting the rewards back and aktually let us enjoy the game instead of haveing to find another game to play.
thanks
If only they fix Cloaking bugg *new message BOOM decloacked.
im makeing this thread as a dedication for just a very simple but morally needed action.
A Thank you to Dstahl ( and possibly any other cryptic dude that shared in this bad event ) for listening reading and takeing action.
i must personally say i take back 50% of all ive said in the past days and an i do apologise.
but i do felt the situation did need some harsh words and drastic measures. ( i do not regret that part )
As an Elite Stf fan and player Thank you for listening and giving back our joy in the game.
our channel we had was empty hardly people playing now its starting to kick back to life.
small buds of players are returning and playing.
Thank you season 7 when i first saw it all i could see was "how the *** am i going to be able to do anything with no dilithium to pay the rent of starbases and equipment and consumables"
i could honestly not even play the game.
now when the economy is going back i feel much more motivateing to get back on track and possible open new ways to explore this season.
so yes thank you for listening and acting correctly.
i just thought that maybe there is others who wishes to say the same to you and the developers team. and thus i made this thread so maybe they will drop by and tell you their words.
anyways i spoken to much and to often for this year thanks and hopefully we all get a happy ending.
season 7 now that economy is back in place and working might just be the best one you guys made
/ with best regards ghosty
If only they fix Cloaking bugg *new message BOOM decloacked.
We as a fleet thank you the dev team for listening and making this right for the player base, We understand needing to make the game work with in the field of the economy, but as you stated fun is more value to the economy then anger. As Leader of Icarus Elite I speak for my fleet here and im proud to be able to say Icarus Elite and our group in game will not be leaving as you proved you do listen to the player base, no other MMO out there would do this.
Now from me personally,
I believe if you had asked us the players more directly about our thoughts on a change this massive we could have expressed better our thought's, Thank you from me a 1,000+ day player I was so close to leaving the game but my faith has been restored.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
***IcarusElite.org***R'C, 1 of 3, Dr. Bellet(FED)-Pal'Kin, Lihop, Casya(KDF) LVL 50.***Jan '08 Account I EARNED my 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! LTS = Death to Vet. System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
True, I have been harsh, and will continue to be so if I feel it is warranted. (I still feel some wake-up slaps are needed.)
That said, I do appreciate and respect that you folks are up to the task of reading through these forums and paying attention. It would be so much easier to close that tab and just ignore things until it 'blows over', but for better or worse, this is part of the job and you're rising to the occasion.
The current.. situation.. is still not resolved, but thank you for the thankless work.
it is just amazing how people can thank them from TRIBBLE them. They didn't listen or it would have never made it to a live server, they only dropped it to 0 dil so they could raise it to the crappy limits in the updated and slide all the other changes by without as much complaining.
.......
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions .......
Well to be completely honest I have absolutely no idea how that was ever a concern because nobody can refine more than 8000 daily (9000 for vets of a certain mark). The amount of dilithium in the economy is directly limited to that and not how much unrefined dilithium any person can obtain in a day. This "fix" is a thinly disguised effort to reduce the amount of dilithium earned in STFs compared to season 6 and have people accept it and even be happy about it because many will now say "at least its better than nothing". In the end dilithium earned through STFs has been nerfed and dilithium expenditures increased all with a goal of having people buy more zen to convert to dilithium.
Thanks for taking feedback into consideration so quickly. It an unusual thing for an MMO to do.
This is my second post in 4 months of playing and both have been related to these changes. These are simply my extended thoughts after checking out the new content and balancing my opinion of that against the dilithium changes.
I really hope you're considering other feedback on the one-click style of dil income. At least up dil rewards for doff missions on crit successes, accolades, and/or some other on-the-fly, but do it every day kind of thing.
I can understand a push may be needed time to time to help generate real-world income in a partially f2p game, but taking what has already been given to players is often followed by discontinued accounts. Might be small numbers at first, but you folks have been in games as players and devs long enough to know how that trickle-effect works. Once their friends start telling them how great this new game is, they'll eventually follow, and the new replaces the old.
I like STO a great deal. I don't play STF's much and DOff's are a good deal of the game to me due to the complexity of doing it well. I'm staying on as f2p, but I am letting my subscription lapse next month. I've experienced a moderte amount of new content and thus far, with the removal of the one-clicks and the loss of 15,000 Dil per day in 15 minutes, I no longer feel that I'm getting the same value for my dollar. The amount of time and zen(including real-world currency spent to buy some of that zen) I spent to buy the additional character slots for the purpose of long-term infrastructural investment, are wasted. That hurts.
The only way to satisfy game players is by increased reward, not less. Each new game offers new rewards the first time you play it, after you've had them all, or at least the ones you want, it's time for new rewards from somewhere else...unless, the game you are playing constantly provides that. You folks have kind of done the opposite to an extent. While offering new rewards, the time required to obtain dil is largely increased overall and the rewards you are offering require that very dil. Not only is the time requirement increased but a highly popular and fully-permitted-at-the-time method of quick acquisition (the one worthwhile gimme on dil), has been taken away. (I may eat my words depending how you resolve the foundry requirements, but most of this feedback is based on that change...so i hope you consider it along with others)
The new STF's are fun, and feel more properly aligned as far as balancing among players in the events. New Romulus looks great, but it feels no different than several WoW expansions over the years. It's 3rd grade stuff. No challenge, but to help my fleet, I'll do whats needed there. Great job of the gfx and sounds, but the content related to the camp and reputation is poorly done and not any kind of new in it's style or basic design. Happy to have the new doff missions as well.
I'll likely stay f2p until I feel like I've gotten that moneys worth back, will will largely be based on how long it takes to acquire the ships and equipment i was working the Dil to purchase. Granted, the stipend for gold membership would help along the way, but It would be in conflict with making a statement I'm willing to stand behind.
I am more than reasonably certain if you guys followed the suggestion I put up about fleet action and STF rewards, you'd have a very happy bunch of players. That goes in addition to keeping the drop loot from the fleet actions. My only regret is not posting that sooner. I respectfully ask that you seriously consider my solution, especially as it was offered without comments to fuel the "nerd-rage" that exploded earlier on the forums.
That suggestion again is this, in a nutshell: Fleet Actions = 1,440 dilithium.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Normal STFs = 720 dilithium.
Bonus objective = 10% bonus to dilthium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Elite STFs = 1,440 dilithium
Bonus objective = 25% bonus to dilithium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same
Borg Neural Processors stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Since those of us who haven't gotten the high-end STF gear will be going gung-ho in the Omega rep system to get that, and quite possibly the most popular way to do that would be getting friends together to do STF runs, this proposal makes alot of sense.
Granted, the Fleet Actions can likewise be run fairly quickly and also be very player-profitable, which equals to a happy player. This, in turn, will help said player progress further in game content and be able to help support the rep system and his/her fleet with the starbase and/or embassy projects. More dilithium available, as my proposal indicated, means happier players and help for especially small fleets who want to level up their starbase/embassy without it taking a ridiculously long time.
This would also make it more likely that players will trade in any excess dilithium they may have after the above-mentioned projects in order to get Zen for purchases in the C-Store.
I ask you. (not to sound Vulcan) Isn't that a logical solution?
On another topic, I do appreciate having another adventure zone, and being able to experience a new level of story content. Personally, I love a good story, and being able to see it come about here makes me happy. It also helps to answer questions I had since the cataclysm referred to in Star Trek (2009) about whether any of the Romulan dissidents (underground / reunificationists) had survived to continue on their peaceful course.
And BTW as far as Dilithium infusion into the economy - you were the one who put in the 8000 refinement cap to keep the Dilithium economy from spiraling out of hand.
I will say again, the fact you stated in the blog that Level 50 players on average were way below that cap on a daily basis and you wanted to increase the average seems to be contradicted by the concern you had in this latest post. Either you need a better proofreader, or you were not being honest about your dilithium goals for S7 you stated in Blog #17 as part of your justification for your original Dilithium changes that you are now (thankfully) reverting to a fair degree.
Still thanks for bowing to all the Feedback in game and on these Forums.
After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.
There have been numerous posts explaining the rationale that went into the reward changes and I can clearly state that our goal of getting more Dilithium into the average player has been very successful. As the data suggested, there is a huge contingent of players that simply do not play STFs but are eager to earn Dilithium in other content. These players are benefiting from the addition of Dilithium in the Fleet Actions, so that worked well.
Well, I am glad they listened to the players, and I am thankful they changed course.
I just wished they didn't add the spin.
I would rather just hear the truth, which is that season seven's premiere was not successful. You can tell by how easy it was to access the server on day one. When season six made its premiere, the servers were virtually impossible to enter.
It stinks to say this, but I think they lost players.
I don't know how many KDF characters exist, but the population in the fleet action and stf queues is nonexistent. KDF is a virtual ghost town. As a result of starting my first KDF character, I have been too busy with the faction to notice the Fed side.
I wonder if the long grinds to build fleetbases have caused people to walk away.
it is just amazing how people can thank them from TRIBBLE them.
That's because Cryptic gave them cookies and milk afterwards to not tell mommy and daddy on them.;)
They didn't listen or it would have never made it to a live server, they only dropped it to 0 dil so they could raise it to the crappy limits in the updated and slide all the other changes by without as much complaining.
Exactly. Their intention was to have the Dilithium reduced in STFs. Hard core STFers are like homeless guys on crack. They need their fix. At the last minute they decided that due to all the complaints they're gonna take away the crack, I mean Dilithium, and see how they like doing without. Then the players start begging for it back and don't care if it is the reduced amount compared to what it was in season 6. Now they will have their fix and stop complaining about it.
It makes me wonder what extreme lengths Cryptic/PWE will go to in order to manipulate the players into doing what they want.
Take it all away and they get mad about it then give them less. Later take more away and they are mad but not so much then give them even less than before. Then later take even more away and nobody says anything. Then they can take what they want and how much they want with no opposition until we have next to nothing and they have everything.
And it's not hard to believe all the teenagers with high limit credit card parents are so gullible and saying "OH THANK YOU SO MUCH I LOVE YOU! I'll buy the Astroglide next time to make the, uh, transition smoother."
Comments
looks i have to reconsider
I think the Fleet actions should be unnerfed, because really, what's the difference if we have more options in how we get our Dilithium. I also think that the ground for both STFs and Fleet Actions should get more Dilithiums/marks, because otherwise, no one will play those.
Holy Frak someone who made sense in all this un-necessary hoopla...
You are not being fair here!
We did not ask for Dilithium Rewards to be reduced in Fleet Actions!
We asked that the "hardest" and most tactical content of the game, the STF, get back his RIGHTFUL reward!
Even now as we speak, i still believe we are getting screwed, but now all the playerbase is getting screwed, not just STFers.
To make things RIGHT, devs should have left things as they were in FA and simply hold to their word and put back Dilithium in STF as IT WAS PROMISED at first!
Oh really?
Dev blog #17 (last section before the comments) http://sto.perfectworld.com/blog/?p=747851
-How does Dilithium Trade factor into all of this?-
They say they leave the economy "ENTIRELY" up to the players and want to "stay out of the way as much as possible", in the next paragraph they insinuate they are trying to manipulate us into changing the economy, i.e. "we want players earning dilithium to get a decent amount of Zen for their trade". I don't see this ending well at all. I haven't seen the players say it is THEIR goal to have the economy changed.
Earlier in the Dev blog post there is this:
-Pre-Season 7 Dilithium Concerns-
Of course this means we WON'T see the 8k refine cap removed/raised any time soon since according to them, there aren't enough players hitting their cap or more to warrant such a change. I'm gonna say that this makes me conclude they are going for inflating the Zen price. "Players are refining far less dilithium than we "EXPECT" them too" and the fact they are saying they want to make it easier to get Dilithium.
#1 Allow us ways and incentives to refine more Dilithium thus hitting our daily 8k limit or more.
#2 More Dilithium in game means Zen prices go up due to more demand for Zen.
#3 Due to higher demand for Zen, players need to buy more Zen to exchange for Dilithium to meet their Dilithium needs
#4 Due to more Zen being sold the company makes more money
Side note: I think the reason for the new/increased Dilithium costs for doffs at the accademy (general recruitment, reassign underperforming) is to coerce people to be more willing to buy Zen and spend it on doff packs in the C-store (hence the recent bug ship/lobi crystal/other TRIBBLE rewards in the 1 particular C-store doff pack, and they make more money)
In the end everybody is happy. Cryptic/PWE makes more money, and the players (well the teenagers that are left with parents who have high limit credit cards) enjoy the new and cool stuff added to the game. :P
It's not about getting us to play less popular content. It's about getting us to earn more Dilithium, spend it on Zen, and sellers having to buy more Zen to meet the demand that will ensue eventually. Just my take on the whole thing.
it may not be solo...but the borg sector invasions areas give 10 omega marks and 480 dilth pre block per day....not to shabby if you ask me lol
If I wanted this attitude of the company telling me what I want and be frelling happy with it, I would be playing EA games on Origin. The fact of the matter is, I don't and won't because EA's customer service pulls these sort of stunts CONSTANTLY.
While I'm thankful that the decision has been reversed, I can tell you I am one of those folk that's going to take a considerably long time to regain my trust (and confidence) in this. Oh, I'll still play, though it will be for considerably less time because I'm finding the requirement times for the Omega and Romulan tiers to be positively draconian. More than 36 hours to go from Tier 0 to Tier 1 (when Fleet projects at those levels were considerably less?) This qualifies as sucktastically poor grind. And earning the Romulan Marks on New Romulus stinks of the grinding I would expect in Blizzard North's World of ********.
Makes me regret not going and helping on Tribble. Not that it seemed to matter given it took backlash for Cryptic/PWE to listen
I recall the statement made in the discussion about dilithium about concerns over players 'not refining enough dilithium ore', and that got me thinking...
To make it more accessible to players, why not further increase the rewards given, particularly with the dilithium costs associated with the fleet starbase/embassy projects (especially the special projects, that eat up 200,000 dilithium) and the higher tier reputation projects (requisitions and unlocks). Here's what I'd like to propose:
1. Leave the Fleet Action dilithium rewards and cooldowns where they are right now.
Fleet Actions = 1,440 dilithium.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
2. STFs, which require serious amounts of teamwork just to complete and also achieve the optional objectives deserve large dilithium rewards for those who run them. Bump up the rewards for them to reflect the skill needed and reduce the cooldown for these missions by half.
Normal STFs = 720 dilithium.
Bonus objective = 10% bonus to dilthium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Elite STFs = 1,440 dilithium
Bonus objective = 25% bonus to dilithium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same
Borg Neural Processors stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
thanks I appreciate that.
There's so many numbers that they have to try to balance out that sometimes they just seem to get lost in the numbers. If people could step back and realize that in all of that sometimes they will get lost in trying to balance the numbers and it'll take a bit for them to realize it and come up with a strategy things would go so much smoother.
In the end we've gained more variety in getting Dilithium, granted not the high numbers that people want, but now there's more variety at least and that's a start. more dil per action whatever that might be really isn't the answer to everyone's prayers because in the end there's still the 8k cap.
More ways to get Dilithium and again as I suggested before a small increase to 10k or 11k for golds/lifers would take the pressure off which system to put Dilithium in. The only other suggestion I would make would be to decrease dil requirements to an even 1500 or 2000 for a project compared to something that between 1500-2000. For example taking an 1800 dil requirement and putting it either at 1500 or 2000. Then it becomes a much simpler balancing issue for players on when/where to spend Dilithium.
The key lesson everyone should take from this is, without Cryptic/PWE we would not have STO, BUT, but without US there is no STO either.
Before MAJOR changes occur that could impact core gameplay that addicts like myself (hardcore elite player) depend on for happy happy fun times, you know what I would like to see happen?
Surveys.
Lots of surveys. For instance if you took 50 players and asked them "hey how would you feel if you lost dil from a bunch of stuff, and yet more stuff cost dil? would you keep playing that content? would you play other stuff?" This whole entire mess could have been avoided entirely.
I'm sure you can read between the lines for this, you have devs and designers who build the game, come up with content, come up with concepts. But you are forgetting your BEST resource. The players. For a lot of us, we live, breathe, sleep and think Star Trek.
Finally I just want to say thank you for ignoring (hopefully) the MASSIVE nerdrage you guys were subjected to, thanks for the changes, I don't mind a minor reduction in dil from elites, that's fine, it was one of my suggestions, to spread things out a little bit.
Now I will be happy to do my normal grind, collecting borg processors and stuff along with my dil. I can survive not getting bonus loot. If I offended anyone with any of my posts earlier today I apologize, but you know about people and their opinions....
Cheers!
This is a good change, but I still think you should add small amounts of dilithium to mission replays and most PvE queue instances, and remove dilithium from the basic embassy projects.
this would be perfect.
+1
What is the point of surveys if they don't listen to player feedback in the first place until everybody gets pissed? Isn't that the reason why Dstahl created this thread to announce a half-assed reversal on some Dilithium changes?
Since season 7 hit the Tribble server people have been complaining about the reduced Dilithium rewards in STFs. Then when season 7 launches the Dilithium rewards in STFs are completely gone after it was already announced, and promised, they would still be there with the amounts as it were on the test server. And people have also been upset about the General Recruitment/Reassign Underperforming doff assignments at the academy costing Dilithium and/or having their costs increased.
I very much approve!
What a way to listen to the community - Bravo!
My point was, maybe they should listen to the player base more? To prevent blow ups, to prevent devs from looking like asses by having to reverse a decision.
I'm a lifetime subscriber, plus I buy stuff from the z-store, I like to think the game I support takes my opinions into account, doesn't everyone feel they should have a say? Of course they do.
Every single person on this planet is opinionated in one form or another.
Elite stf's are like crack, and what happens with you take an addicts crack away from him? You get the friggin bull that's what you get. Change needs to be gradual, not abrupt ugly and painful. You'd be surprised what a person can handle when the change comes slowly enough that you don't really notice it.
Look at me giving them ideas... uh oh...
Im quite amased, and stunned really,
You aktually turned season 7 into a very very good season and all u had to do was put back the dilithium for us who fought hard against the evil borgys.
i might aktually start to like you again!
i approve of this and i also have to personally congratulate you.
takeing back a decision you once made and thought was right is no little task.
well done a honest and very accurate well done much apriciated and again well done.
we cannot thank you enough for putting the rewards back and aktually let us enjoy the game instead of haveing to find another game to play.
thanks
A Thank you to Dstahl ( and possibly any other cryptic dude that shared in this bad event ) for listening reading and takeing action.
i must personally say i take back 50% of all ive said in the past days and an i do apologise.
but i do felt the situation did need some harsh words and drastic measures. ( i do not regret that part )
As an Elite Stf fan and player Thank you for listening and giving back our joy in the game.
our channel we had was empty hardly people playing now its starting to kick back to life.
small buds of players are returning and playing.
Thank you season 7 when i first saw it all i could see was "how the *** am i going to be able to do anything with no dilithium to pay the rent of starbases and equipment and consumables"
i could honestly not even play the game.
now when the economy is going back i feel much more motivateing to get back on track and possible open new ways to explore this season.
so yes thank you for listening and acting correctly.
i just thought that maybe there is others who wishes to say the same to you and the developers team. and thus i made this thread so maybe they will drop by and tell you their words.
anyways i spoken to much and to often for this year
season 7 now that economy is back in place and working might just be the best one you guys made
/ with best regards ghosty
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=447051
Please dont post duplicates about the same subject.
We as a fleet thank you the dev team for listening and making this right for the player base, We understand needing to make the game work with in the field of the economy, but as you stated fun is more value to the economy then anger. As Leader of Icarus Elite I speak for my fleet here and im proud to be able to say Icarus Elite and our group in game will not be leaving as you proved you do listen to the player base, no other MMO out there would do this.
Now from me personally,
I believe if you had asked us the players more directly about our thoughts on a change this massive we could have expressed better our thought's, Thank you from me a 1,000+ day player I was so close to leaving the game but my faith has been restored.
R'C Icarus Commander,
IcarusElite.Org @rf93
***IcarusElite.org***R'C, 1 of 3, Dr. Bellet(FED)-Pal'Kin, Lihop, Casya(KDF) LVL 50.***Jan '08 Account I EARNED my 1000 days...I didn't BUY it! LTS = Death to Vet. System: 10/10/12 Never Forget Something should be done for those who cared enough to have a 1000+ day sub.
DELTA PRICE RISING
That said, I do appreciate and respect that you folks are up to the task of reading through these forums and paying attention. It would be so much easier to close that tab and just ignore things until it 'blows over', but for better or worse, this is part of the job and you're rising to the occasion.
The current.. situation.. is still not resolved, but thank you for the thankless work.
Well to be completely honest I have absolutely no idea how that was ever a concern because nobody can refine more than 8000 daily (9000 for vets of a certain mark). The amount of dilithium in the economy is directly limited to that and not how much unrefined dilithium any person can obtain in a day. This "fix" is a thinly disguised effort to reduce the amount of dilithium earned in STFs compared to season 6 and have people accept it and even be happy about it because many will now say "at least its better than nothing". In the end dilithium earned through STFs has been nerfed and dilithium expenditures increased all with a goal of having people buy more zen to convert to dilithium.
This is my second post in 4 months of playing and both have been related to these changes. These are simply my extended thoughts after checking out the new content and balancing my opinion of that against the dilithium changes.
I really hope you're considering other feedback on the one-click style of dil income. At least up dil rewards for doff missions on crit successes, accolades, and/or some other on-the-fly, but do it every day kind of thing.
I can understand a push may be needed time to time to help generate real-world income in a partially f2p game, but taking what has already been given to players is often followed by discontinued accounts. Might be small numbers at first, but you folks have been in games as players and devs long enough to know how that trickle-effect works. Once their friends start telling them how great this new game is, they'll eventually follow, and the new replaces the old.
I like STO a great deal. I don't play STF's much and DOff's are a good deal of the game to me due to the complexity of doing it well. I'm staying on as f2p, but I am letting my subscription lapse next month. I've experienced a moderte amount of new content and thus far, with the removal of the one-clicks and the loss of 15,000 Dil per day in 15 minutes, I no longer feel that I'm getting the same value for my dollar. The amount of time and zen(including real-world currency spent to buy some of that zen) I spent to buy the additional character slots for the purpose of long-term infrastructural investment, are wasted. That hurts.
The only way to satisfy game players is by increased reward, not less. Each new game offers new rewards the first time you play it, after you've had them all, or at least the ones you want, it's time for new rewards from somewhere else...unless, the game you are playing constantly provides that. You folks have kind of done the opposite to an extent. While offering new rewards, the time required to obtain dil is largely increased overall and the rewards you are offering require that very dil. Not only is the time requirement increased but a highly popular and fully-permitted-at-the-time method of quick acquisition (the one worthwhile gimme on dil), has been taken away. (I may eat my words depending how you resolve the foundry requirements, but most of this feedback is based on that change...so i hope you consider it along with others)
The new STF's are fun, and feel more properly aligned as far as balancing among players in the events. New Romulus looks great, but it feels no different than several WoW expansions over the years. It's 3rd grade stuff. No challenge, but to help my fleet, I'll do whats needed there. Great job of the gfx and sounds, but the content related to the camp and reputation is poorly done and not any kind of new in it's style or basic design. Happy to have the new doff missions as well.
I'll likely stay f2p until I feel like I've gotten that moneys worth back, will will largely be based on how long it takes to acquire the ships and equipment i was working the Dil to purchase. Granted, the stipend for gold membership would help along the way, but It would be in conflict with making a statement I'm willing to stand behind.
I am more than reasonably certain if you guys followed the suggestion I put up about fleet action and STF rewards, you'd have a very happy bunch of players. That goes in addition to keeping the drop loot from the fleet actions. My only regret is not posting that sooner. I respectfully ask that you seriously consider my solution, especially as it was offered without comments to fuel the "nerd-rage" that exploded earlier on the forums.
That suggestion again is this, in a nutshell:
Fleet Actions = 1,440 dilithium.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Normal STFs = 720 dilithium.
Bonus objective = 10% bonus to dilthium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Elite STFs = 1,440 dilithium
Bonus objective = 25% bonus to dilithium and Omega Marks
Base Omega Marks stay the same
Borg Neural Processors stay the same.
Cooldown = 30 minutes
Since those of us who haven't gotten the high-end STF gear will be going gung-ho in the Omega rep system to get that, and quite possibly the most popular way to do that would be getting friends together to do STF runs, this proposal makes alot of sense.
Granted, the Fleet Actions can likewise be run fairly quickly and also be very player-profitable, which equals to a happy player. This, in turn, will help said player progress further in game content and be able to help support the rep system and his/her fleet with the starbase and/or embassy projects. More dilithium available, as my proposal indicated, means happier players and help for especially small fleets who want to level up their starbase/embassy without it taking a ridiculously long time.
This would also make it more likely that players will trade in any excess dilithium they may have after the above-mentioned projects in order to get Zen for purchases in the C-Store.
I ask you. (not to sound Vulcan) Isn't that a logical solution?
On another topic, I do appreciate having another adventure zone, and being able to experience a new level of story content. Personally, I love a good story, and being able to see it come about here makes me happy. It also helps to answer questions I had since the cataclysm referred to in Star Trek (2009) about whether any of the Romulan dissidents (underground / reunificationists) had survived to continue on their peaceful course.
I just wished they didn't add the spin.
I would rather just hear the truth, which is that season seven's premiere was not successful. You can tell by how easy it was to access the server on day one. When season six made its premiere, the servers were virtually impossible to enter.
It stinks to say this, but I think they lost players.
I don't know how many KDF characters exist, but the population in the fleet action and stf queues is nonexistent. KDF is a virtual ghost town. As a result of starting my first KDF character, I have been too busy with the faction to notice the Fed side.
I wonder if the long grinds to build fleetbases have caused people to walk away.
Thank you Cryptic for changing your mind.
Exactly. Their intention was to have the Dilithium reduced in STFs. Hard core STFers are like homeless guys on crack. They need their fix. At the last minute they decided that due to all the complaints they're gonna take away the crack, I mean Dilithium, and see how they like doing without. Then the players start begging for it back and don't care if it is the reduced amount compared to what it was in season 6. Now they will have their fix and stop complaining about it.
It makes me wonder what extreme lengths Cryptic/PWE will go to in order to manipulate the players into doing what they want.
Take it all away and they get mad about it then give them less. Later take more away and they are mad but not so much then give them even less than before. Then later take even more away and nobody says anything. Then they can take what they want and how much they want with no opposition until we have next to nothing and they have everything.
And it's not hard to believe all the teenagers with high limit credit card parents are so gullible and saying "OH THANK YOU SO MUCH I LOVE YOU! I'll buy the Astroglide next time to make the, uh, transition smoother."