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Announcement About Upcoming Dilithium Changes - Nov 14, 2012

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  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Sorry Mr.Stahl , but I can't find it in myself to thank you .

    Not after this emotional wrangling that has left me exhausted .

    Not after being lied to . (again)

    Not after being made to feel like a cog in a metric .

    Oh and your numbers are off again ... unless your intent is to Not Award the average player with more Dil .

    Because if you do want to reward the average player , then you should have left the FA award as it was ... (or closer to what it was) to simply put an OBVIOUS button for blind people that don't know the game that good, that says "Dilithium in HERE!!!" (as a fleetie of mine said) .

    See ... , you can cater to the Terilynn crowd and the STF crowd at the same time .
    It does not have to be One or the Other .

    So tell me (or don't) : have you lied to us when you said that you wanted the "average" player to earn more Dil ?
    Because putting the greater amount of Dil BACK into STF's puts it AGAIN out of the reach of Terilynn & co . .

    I'm saying this as an avid STF-er who didn't log in for 2 days now because of the crapticular changes in the last 2 days that you call "balancing the economy" .

    And I'm also saying this because despite being dumber than a post ("what do you need Dilithium for ?" Terilynn S. , PodcastUGC Nov.14) -- I still feel a compassion for the folks like her who do not really understand the economic aspect of the game they are playing -- but they are trying to have fun in the game in their own way and earn stuff non the less .

    So ... my point is that raising the FA awards just a little won't break your economy , and won't leave the ppl like Terilynn (who have a seething hatred for all things STF (players included) feeling like "oh those STF-ers , they got us again ... , we won't earn as much Dil because of them !! ") .

    Please consider the following improvements :

    Normal STF runs will grant 480 Dilithium
    Elite STF runs will grant 960 Dilithium
    Space Fleet Action runs will grant 480 Dilithium -- make this 580
    Ground Fleet Action runs will grant 640 Dilithium -- make this 780

    Trust me , the game WON'T break .
    (well not because of this anyway)
  • scififan78scififan78 Member Posts: 1,383 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I do understand some of the logic behind some of the decisions made. The one click to rule them all foundry missions for the Officer Reports were an exploit in a business sense. I can also see the removal of the Chart B'tran Nebula daily. My biggest issue with that one though is that there really is not a replacement for it. Yall removed/reduced dilitium from the STFs but moved them to the FAs. I have an idea for a replacement for the Chart B'tran Nebula.

    "Patrol the Front Lines"

    It would be a daily that awards dilithium. When you accept the orders, your ship is sent to patrol a random sector block. This mission would only unlock once your captain has completed all of the normal Patrol missions. The idea behind the patrol being random is that it would break up the monotomy of doing the exact same missions every day.
  • speedofheatspeedofheat Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Well done for listening to the player base.

    Shame on you for not listening or understanding the reaction and feedback you had on tribble and avoiding the issue altogether.

    But Gratz fro responding so quickly.
    y3m-yM6W2jBAA7NpYi95PewTOHD9vSNpFGl3huKvuKsGif7jH9lBSYRtnx-AxOUzQw00u0SrjnMeAt0McFsPmCC2FoawxgX3ZON4Ork7H39MCRYsgBUn0QYSADDqYpB6wB5twq-_jNOp7AdrNeItQjiXChE9kwGvBsqc-vTz7oj3YM?width=660&height=198&cropmode=none
  • tehjoneltehjonel Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I'm just gonna leave this here...

    STO Dilithium Army...
  • digimatldigimatl Member Posts: 44 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I must say i still cant understand why the dev team did not listen to any feedback from tribble and did, out of the blue, that unbelievable stupid move on tuesday? I mean such things always fire back.

    But i am also impressed that you guys did listen in the end and did not came up with some wishy-washy (f.e. Lower fleet dilth project requirements by 2.324%....) way of solving it. It is still less than before but there are also new ways of aquiring items so this should balance out. I am okay with that.

    And I will not spin any conspiracy theories but just say thanks, and hope that this experience benefits us all (player base and dev team) in the future.

    greatings
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tebsutebsu Member Posts: 372 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Thanks Cryptic !! <3
    What ? Calaway.
  • daboholicdaboholic Member Posts: 265 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    As others have pointed out, this is a more balanced approach that may have implications for Dilithium exchange rates in the future (because there will be much more Dilithium in the economy) - but we want players having fun with the new Season 7 content - not worrying about how to get Dilithium.

    Well unless the STF's start awarding Refined Dilithium how will it put more into the economy?

    There's still an 8k per day refinement cap, so if I'm in a STF earning Dilithium I can't possibly be in a Fleet Action earning it at the same time.

    All this does is give players more options on how to reach that 8k cap.
    dastahl wrote: »
    So in other words - we stuck to our guns - left the change in - it accomplished exactly what we wanted it to (help players get more Dilithium) but that doesn't equal "fun" for the community. We needed to see the data after S7 launch in order to realize that players can have their cake and eat it too and the game will be ok.

    Well your changes didn't help me get more Dilithium.

    Of my 5 characters, my 4 alts are now refining less per day then they ever have and my main is only refining 8k per day due to the stockpile I got from cashing out all my EDC's and Proto Tech before you screwed me in the latest conversion.
  • g8472hgg8472hg Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Sorry, I have still bad feelings about cryptic, again. (I'm still remembering for the "buy lifer account and you will reveive 250 emblems veteran reward action. Then the 250 emblems are stolen!) "All this has happened before, and all this will happen again."

    And I won't spend any money for zen, till the game won't confortable and fun. Cryptic wants my money, not me theirs.
  • eskwaweskwaw Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    this looks like a start.

    but we need something like loot in stf's too !

    a idea could be MK XII kiT's as rare loot ... only a idea
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 929 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Two things...

    1-Thank you...

    2-Please revamp the Current Body model displaced on the main page of this company's site. To a more formal and less 'sexual suggested presentation.
    dastahl wrote: »
    Greetings!

    After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.

    There have been numerous posts explaining the rationale that went into the reward changes and I can clearly state that our goal of getting more Dilithium into the average player has been very successful. As the data suggested, there is a huge contingent of players that simply do not play STFs but are eager to earn Dilithium in other content. These players are benefiting from the addition of Dilithium in the Fleet Actions, so that worked well.

    However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.

    Season 7 is an awesome content filled update that the team is very proud of that has been overshadowed by player frustrations over the Dilithium changes. Cryptic has and always will take player feedback into consideration when making decisions and this is a case where we agree with the players that Dilithium should be back in the STFs. It is more fun to run STFs when you can earn Dilithium towards end game gear and no amount of data driven logic can outweigh this.

    So here are the changes we'll be making in a maintenance build by the end of this week.
    • Normal STF runs will grant 480 Dilithium
    • Elite STF runs will grant 960 Dilithium
    • Space Fleet Action runs will grant 480 Dilithium
    • Ground Fleet Action runs will grant 640 Dilithium

    This is in addition to the other rewards that STFs and Fleet Actions grant.

    While this is still a change from Season 6, we hope that these new amounts will help the average player earn more Dilithium per day while maintaining the Dilithium that players who like to run STFs were receiving.

    The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world.

    Thank you for your patience and for being the best community of any MMO.


    - dstahl


    (p.s. the web team has updated the blog I posted last night with these changes to help cut down on confusion.)
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  • kalvorax#3775 kalvorax Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    ONLY thing i dislike about the FA's is that they can stick us into FA's that are almost complete....thats just not right -.-
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
  • purvee1purvee1 Member Posts: 360 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    This. This, please. Having to pay dilithium to reassign underperforming doffs is outrageous.

    I can get the DoFF to pay me for throwing him out an airlock or lining him (and 4 others) up agaisnt a wall and shooting them.

    I guess being a neglected minority has its good points.

    But overall thanks for the change. I did an STF last night any response at the end of it was "is that all?" and I wondered how hard it would be to chase Red Alerts.
  • xlocutusofborgxxlocutusofborgx Member Posts: 1,376 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Good call devs, and ty dan for fixing this.

    Just remember one thing dan for the future, more time for feedback before season release, get those bugs cleared and make sure things are on a good note with most of the community before releasing stuff. We want to show you appreciation but we also want you guys to listen to what we desire of this game.

    Community at times can be harsh, i for one know this, but showing that you guys do care about this game means alot to us.. we need to see it more.. really do. Anyways good move and Iam glad you went back and fixed this. Cheers

    Locutus
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    R E S I S T A N C E - I S - F U T I L E
  • dkratascodkratasco Member Posts: 585 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    dastahl wrote: »

    However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium

    And how would this happend if we still have 8k per day rafination limits? I can even earn ~20k dilithium but I can use only 8k.

    Why you care how I obtain it and how much of it?
    to keep players on equal footing in the acquisition of Refined Dilithium

    Nice slogan, but not true. It demands from player hours of grind every day. What if someone is casual player with real life? What if he/she can play for more than 3 hours/day only at weekends and in week can log in only for ~30 minutes? Why that player can't make him-/herself stock of Ore, refine it at weekdays and have possibility to spend those 30 minutes doing what he/she want?

    You want make dhilit as some sort "time" currency so give it as reward from all sort of missions because I also spend my time in game playing them. Right now it's: "You don't play what and how we want, you don't spend time in STO".
  • kalvorax#3775 kalvorax Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    i say KEEP the FA's as they are now before the patch...but make the cooldown 45 mins....and add the dilth back into the STFs like your planning...... these Fleet actions are brimming with life now after so long of being dormant.....i dont care if its not as TEAM based per say.....but ist still fun as heck to go into a HUGE firefight against klinks/Feds.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
  • synthscanner#2101 synthscanner Member Posts: 470 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Thank you for adding dilithium back into the STF rewards.

    :3
  • adamonlineadamonline Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    What worry's me is that you still don't seem to understand why so many of us were upset about this... it wasn't so much that you took dilithium away from the STFs, it was more that you did it in a very underhanded last minuet via the backdoor way with little to zero warning it would happen on the eve of season 7 and when we asked you about it you ignored our comments while happily posting about other topics untill you were ready to post a blog about it that basically said "this is the way it is, deal with it" ... we even then had cryptic staff posting that the players were "short sighted" for even questioning the change.

    Your complete and utter lack of candid disclosure ahead of the time and complete lack of respect for the community shown is the real core of the problem here.

    Yes you changed it back and yes it is better overall now for everyone, but that dosnt change the root ongoing issue here does it? This game used to be famous for its honesty, what did become of that?
  • deadspacex64deadspacex64 Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    doff prices are still insane, so adding dil rewards back to stf's actually did nothing to solve that. there's still an 8k cap, so extra dilithium wasn't the main issue, just a symptom.

    reducing doff prices to 1/5 of their current value would be reasonable, especially considering the cost 5x duty officers + dil and you get a random. that's less of a burden on new players or players with multiple alts then the current prices.

    simply put stahl, trying to force sales on one item or down one or 2 avenues fails. trying to sell doff packs and zen for the exchange equates to people buying less of everything else.

    diversify if you want strong CS sales. have weekly sales of items. add more fashions for ships and player avatars. old adage you have to spend at least some money to make money (design/dev costs) what you tried and are doing in S7 was pure laziness by altering game mechanics. you didn't even need to add the content to pull that off.

    just moving some numbers around and instant higher prices for everything with reduced income. while you did add new content...it wasn't necessary for the changes.. they could have been done at anytime.

    you also seriously need to get off your collective posteriors about the klingon faction. fed is more popular simply because of your own restrictions on the klingons. so it's an artificially induced imbalance promoted by your decisions. claiming that fed faction earns you more and is the one to push content for is a fail when you weigh the dice at every turn in that factions favor.

    you give players more choices, more options, more stay, more pay. you try to force players into what you think is best/profitable = failure. only sheeples like to be led/forced...and there's not enough of them to keep your game afloat, not to mention they follow trends, so if people start leaving, they will to...think about that.
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  • warpetwarpet Member Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    haha :/ great again will be forced to do stfs :( give fleet actions 960 dil
  • breadandcircusesbreadandcircuses Member Posts: 2,355 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    adamonline wrote: »
    What worry's me is that you still don't seem to understand why so many of us were upset about this... it wasn't so much that you took dilithium away from the STFs, it was more that you did it in a very underhanded last minuet via the backdoor way with little to zero warning it would happen on the eve of season 7 and when we asked you about it you ignored our comments while happily posting about other topics untill you were ready to post a blog about it that basically said "this is the way it is, deal with it" ... we even then had cryptic staff posting that the players were "short sighted" for even questioning the change.

    Your complete and utter lack of candid disclosure ahead of the time and complete lack of respect for the community shown is the real core of the problem here.

    Yes you changed it back and yes it is better overall now for everyone, but that dosnt change the root ongoing issue here does it? This game used to be famous for its honesty, what did become of that?

    I agree entirely, and while the partial restoration of dilithium to STF's is a step in the right direction it is not the whole path. No specifics were given as far as conversion rates for existing Borg tech we'd collected, and I am sad to say I had enough faith in you to make it a reasonable conversion. I logged off with 15 Prototype items and a few EDC's that had been worth 34560 dilithium, and when I logged back in I had a sealed box with 1500 Omega Marks, 8 Borg Neural Processors, and 1000 (seriously) dilithium, which just seems ridiculous. I have a fleetmate that had 8 EDC's and ended up with a box with 500 Omega Marks and 4 Borg Neural Processors. Not really understanding the conversion rates there buddy... :confused:

    Next time you plan on converting ANY resources as part of an update, please provide a clear and specific method of how you intend to convert those resources. Oh, and as far as the sealed crate is concerned, wasting inventory space with something used on projects that have 40hr timers just seems silly; I couldn't race to tier V even if I could open it given the timers involved. Dude :rolleyes:

    I hesitated on buying the Lifetime subscription as a direct result of the changes that I'd seen rumors of, and the lack of enough detail to make an informed decision. After all this, I am glad I did. If I had paid $200 for what just went on I would be... greatly perturbed. I really do want you to change my mind, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Yes, I know the price is $300 now, but that's not going to happen in any case. Sorry.

    <edit>
    Ok, just did some thinking, and revised my opinion. This is not a step in the right direction, it's even worse than the Season 7 change. Now, you have to do a Fleet Action for 480 dilithium AND an Elite STF for 960 to get the 1440 dilithium that you were getting from a single Fleet Action or STF. So, hardcore STF fans have to run Fleet Actions and the more casual Fleet Action players have to run STF's, and everyone is forced to grind two missions for the reward one gave before. No, not better, not added, just shuffled around in a way that makes it even worse.
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  • marielangmarielang Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    2 little 2 late uesd to get drops blue quality or better we kept the fleet bank stocked with good items for people who had just joined or leveld up. used to get salvage that could sell for extra dilithium. btran no longer had dilithium reward. dof and other dilithium cost have jumped up over 1000% in some places and the star base still has 200,000 dilithium upgrade missions. This is Like Being ***** and Afterwards Having the Rapist Say Hes Real Sorry Here Have a Free Morning After Pill. you have still gutted this game and I think you will see it soon in you bottom line profits. all you had to do to make the old system work was to let mk12 omaga/maco/honor. be pruchesed for 100 or 150 edc's each. the old saying goes KISS Keep It Simple Stupid.
  • admiralthorr360admiralthorr360 Member Posts: 130 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I think season 7 is just a bad dream we need to wake up from. I'd elaborate but a lot of the posts of discontent speak for me and I'd probably rage if I went further.
  • diogene0diogene0 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I guess the solution to the increased dil flow (I'd like to believe you on that part, why not?) could be more huge but completely optional and individual dilithium sinks, similar to the starbase featured projects. Just make sure that it looks completely optional, and everyone should be happy with that except the usual hardcore completionists who can't stop themselves from getting every little useless feature you add. :P
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  • khayuungkhayuung Member Posts: 1,876 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    In case no one else noticed, this is a dil nerf in disguise.

    Running FAs are brainless but are completed so fast fleetmates were getting more than they did with the old eSTFs.

    Now the only time STFs come ahead is when you hit T5 and start turning everything into dil. But you still won't match the ease it is to top a FA and make off with EC and dil.

    So stop celebrating, you've been had. :P


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  • tachyonharmonictachyonharmonic Member Posts: 292 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    It wasn't an easy decision by any stretch of the imagination and even though the Dilithium changes to remove STFs has been on TRIBBLE since the test weekend promo, it wasn't until we looked at the data today and saw that everyone had more Dilithium on average and still weren't happy - that I decided that the data driven approach was accomplishing the goal of giving players more Dilithium, but wasn't making some of our hardcore players happy at all.

    So in other words - we stuck to our guns - left the change in - it accomplished exactly what we wanted it to (help players get more Dilithium) but that doesn't equal "fun" for the community. We needed to see the data after S7 launch in order to realize that players can have their cake and eat it too and the game will be ok.

    Do you think people having extra Dilithium might have something to do with the fact that we realized how terrible the Omega Crate conversion was, and everyone game-wide was saying to cash out your tokens? That would be my first guess, based on what was happening with the players.
  • rikwesselsrikwessels Member Posts: 367 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    My problem with the whole dilithium scheme has nothing to do with STF's or fleet actions but with the underlying mechanic being used :

    - make everything cost heaps of the stuff
    - try to force players to play content you want them to play ,not necessarily what they like in order to get the stuff
    - implementing a cap/cooldown on how often they can play that content

    That isn't a "time based " currency but rather a scheme to slow down progression ( regardless of howmuch time you're willing to invest let alone effort ) so they won't burn through the content before you guys are able to produce the next batch of episodes .That will be the decisive factor : if progression is too fast you'll simply nerf dilithium again because there's no content left .

    What you should do to expedite release of new content is get together a group of players ( easily recognized by reading the forums ) in a sort of unofficial player counsel and talk about the direction of the game . You can ask foundry authors for their input on mission/episode design even by making them sign an NDA prior to this process .
  • realdarth5ava63realdarth5ava63 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Dan you folded like a T-shirt at the gap.

    Players you do see we are getting less for more work now, well at lest i got my 8K cap in record time without having to read about 10% or 5km.

    Thanks Dan.
  • freed89freed89 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    I am glad you have reversed your decision on the stf problem. Thank you for that.
  • realmysticgrealmysticg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    dastahl wrote: »
    Greetings!

    After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.
    Thank you. We're a small fleet and this will help us greatly as we much prefer running STF's together than anything else and before this reversal we'd effectively lost our lifeblood.

    Does Cryptic have any plans to look at EDC's in the near future as the methods to collect these seem to have dropped off a cliff? Are they being phased out?
  • vinru821vinru821 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!:D

    - A VERY happy player again.
    :eek:
This discussion has been closed.