Raise the refining cap to 24,000 dilithium per day.
I'm happy with the cooldowns and the dlilthium that we will be having now.
If the cap is raised by x3 it will severely decrease the value of dilithium and mess up the dilithium exchange, the price per zen will skyrocket, that is one thing that I dont want to see.
Though i do not run STFs nor do I run Fleet Actions, I will commend you on reverting the changes to dilithium earnings to those that dio run these and care very much about those missions.
Glad to see at least that forums are being monitored and listened to.
I'll have further feedback as time goes on I'm sure but the team as a whole did fantastic work on S7 and it'll be nice to get back into game and be focused on that.
This seems like a reasonable approach to me.
Perfect? No. Reasonable? Yes.
You have a wide variety of players to cater to, however, and so I can recognize that perfect isn't always an option.
You still thought it was a good idea to force your players/customers to play the game in a way you found acceptable; for an amount of time per day you found acceptable, not taking into consideration if it was what they wanted or would enjoy.
You still completely ignored your player/customer feedback about your coming changes and did what you wanted, reguardless.
This is in no way good business practice. You do not ignore what custmers tell you, then tell your customers what you have decided it is they want. And you most certainly never lie to them. Not if you wish for them to remain customers for long.
As everyone else is; I am glad that you decided to re-think some of your recent decisions; and to actually take into account what it is the players/customers would like.
But this never should have been an issue in the first place; and the damage is done. Restoring players/custoners confidence in you is going to take time and considerably more then an "oops, our bad" post on your part.
Can't really add anything else to this. Well said.
"Fool me once, shame on you."
"Fool me twice, shame on me."
In short, we won't be fooled again. Or in the very least, take a note from the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition;
- Keep your lies consistent.
- A good lie is easier to believe than the truth.
Thank you for listening to the community. Now I have something more to look forward in stf, something other than omega mark and neural proc. Shouldn't have done it the way you did, that just pest ppl off.
But at least you man enough to admit you made a mistake, that's worth something in my book
Jamal : Tactical space specialist. USS Bug Warrior and many others
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
You still thought it was a good idea to force your players/customers to play the game in a way you found acceptable; for an amount of time per day you found acceptable, not taking into consideration if it was what they wanted or would enjoy.
You still completely ignored your player/customer feedback about your coming changes and did what you wanted, reguardless.
This is in no way good business practice. You do not ignore what custmers tell you, then tell your customers what you have decided it is they want. And you most certainly never lie to them. Not if you wish for them to remain customers for long.
As everyone else is; I am glad that you decided to re-think some of your recent decisions; and to actually take into account what it is the players/customers would like.
But this never should have been an issue in the first place; and the damage is done. Restoring players/custoners confidence in you is going to take time and considerably more then an "oops, our bad" post on your part.thers earlier in this thread.
The playerbase deserves an apology for the dev team's actions. I'm not asking for stuff or a free ship or anything like that. But a statement from the dev team stating on how badly they misjudged the playerbase on this matter and how WRONG you guys were to do this would go a fair way towards fixing some of what's happened.
Thank you so much for listening to your customer base, you guys made a great
call! STO is a really fun game, and the STF's are still some of the most fun areas in
the game, and the extra Dilith Reward adds a little smile at the end of the run!
Good Job and good Call Cryptic/PWE
Tieberion, Captain of the USS Excalibur NX-97000-B
pleased to see your reversing a little. i will like to say please do some reversing on the underperforming doff exchange. that you have well and truely over vauled that. it was a system that players that purchased reinforcement packs would use. so what i'm saying is it's like being charged zen then charged again and as such actually harms the the way i might go about spending zen on doffs..... your charges are far to high.
so either reverse or lower all doff packs in the c/z-store 275 then having to pay way over the odds to exchange whites/green/blues you don't want is crazy.
In case you haven't noticed, they're congratulating them on putting back the Dilithilum in STFs. Read: congratulating one small change.
That congratulations probably doesn't convey their feelings about the entire situation.
No, the sentiments are glowing, overly positive. You don't congratulate your boss for cutting your pay, then firing you, then hiring you back at cut pay.
STFs are still cut in half for what they used to give out. Yet rates are massively increased. It's a cash grab, nothing else. Designed entirely to limit dilithium but increase the cost of everything to require loads of dilithium.
Can't make the dil you now need? Don't worry, you can pay real world money to get it!
There is nothing, not one single thing, in this entire patch, worthy of praise once you realize the facts of what they're doing. It's borderline sinking their own ship on purpose.
After many hours of deliberation and review of the post Season 7 player data, I've made the call to reverse the decision to remove Dilithium as a reward for running STFs. In addition, we've also decided to keep Dilithium as a reward in Fleet Actions.
There have been numerous posts explaining the rationale that went into the reward changes and I can clearly state that our goal of getting more Dilithium into the average player has been very successful. As the data suggested, there is a huge contingent of players that simply do not play STFs but are eager to earn Dilithium in other content. These players are benefiting from the addition of Dilithium in the Fleet Actions, so that worked well.
However, our concern that there would be too much Dilithium in the economy if we left Dilithium in both STFs and Fleet Actions has been outweighed by the frustration we've seen from STF fans since the launch of Season 7.
Season 7 is an awesome content filled update that the team is very proud of that has been overshadowed by player frustrations over the Dilithium changes. Cryptic has and always will take player feedback into consideration when making decisions and this is a case where we agree with the players that Dilithium should be back in the STFs. It is more fun to run STFs when you can earn Dilithium towards end game gear and no amount of data driven logic can outweigh this.
So here are the changes we'll be making in a maintenance build by the end of this week.
Normal STF runs will grant 480 Dilithium
Elite STF runs will grant 960 Dilithium
Space Fleet Action runs will grant 480 Dilithium
Ground Fleet Action runs will grant 640 Dilithium
This is in addition to the other rewards that STFs and Fleet Actions grant.
While this is still a change from Season 6, we hope that these new amounts will help the average player earn more Dilithium per day while maintaining the Dilithium that players who like to run STFs were receiving.
The additional Dilithium may impact the player-to-player Dilithium exchange rates in the future, but we would rather you were having fun in Season 7 than worrying about the economy. We have enough of that to deal with in the real world.
Thank you for your patience and for being the best community of any MMO.
- dstahl
(p.s. the web team has updated the blog I posted last night with these changes to help cut down on confusion.)
Well, color me impressed! Not only did you all LISTEN to the players, you DID something about it, AND right away!
You certainly have earned my gratitude, and you've done much that adds "Clustomer Marks";) in my account book!
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge (...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
You still thought it was a good idea to force your players/customers to play the game in a way you found acceptable; for an amount of time per day you found acceptable, not taking into consideration if it was what they wanted or would enjoy.
You still completely ignored your player/customer feedback about your coming changes and did what you wanted, reguardless.
This is in no way good business practice. You do not ignore what custmers tell you, then tell your customers what you have decided it is they want. And you most certainly never lie to them. Not if you wish for them to remain customers for long.
As everyone else is; I am glad that you decided to re-think some of your recent decisions; and to actually take into account what it is the players/customers would like. This is definately an improvement we are all happy with.
But this never should have been an issue in the first place; and the damage is done. Restoring players/custoners confidence in you is going to take time and considerably more then an "oops, our bad" post on your part.
^This^
My thoughts exactly.
"If your conscience is bothering you, you should sooth it with the knowledge that you may have just saved the ENTIRE Alpha Quadrant. And all it cost was the life of one Romulan senator, one criminal, & the self-respect of one Starfleet officer. I don't know about you, but I call that a bargain." - Elim Garak
And what's even better is that the Com thanks Cryptic for making this change, what means that you now have to spend more time to get 1440 Dil. Now you have to do one Fleet Action for 1440. Thats about 15 minutes. After that change hits live, you need to do 15 minutes Fleet action and another 15 Minutes STF's just to get the same 1440. And all the "Thank you so much for listening to your customer base" sayers do really think thats something to thank Cryptik for?
No, the sentiments are glowing, overly positive. You don't congratulate your boss for cutting your pay, then firing you, then hiring you back at cut pay.
STFs are still cut in half for what they used to give out. Yet rates are massively increased. It's a cash grab, nothing else. Designed entirely to limit dilithium but increase the cost of everything to require loads of dilithium.
Can't make the dil you now need? Don't worry, you can pay real world money to get it!
There is nothing, not one single thing, in this entire patch, worthy of praise once you realize the facts of what they're doing. It's borderline sinking their own ship on purpose.
They are glowing, but they only mention this one change... that does not speak praise about the lack of changes to anything else, but I don't know about you.
Seperate issues are separate issues, even when related. That's all I'm seeing
Was named Trek17.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Would still like to see dilithium added in some way for completing a Featured Episode series. But right now I'd be more interested in knowing if Reputation Marks are going to be added to the Borg and Romulan episodes at some point?
Saying that, why is it we can't earn small amounts of Fleet Marks when playing all of the game content when we're teamed up with other members from our fleet? A bit like how Guild Wars 2 offers guild influence when doing the same in that game.
While I have to say "thank you" for listening to us, I have to prepare either the proverbial "slap to the face", or at least a facepalm, for the "kneejerk" reaction shown here.
While I agree that the hardest content in the game (E-STF) should pay the "best", this maneuver all but assures everyone rushes to the E-STF queues again, and (especially) the space fleet actions will dry back up like S5, S6, etc. - what's more important, random consoles/loot/ECs and Dil, or the same amount of Dil & Omega Marks?
I would have gone with the "promised" (or proposed, depending on how one looks at it) 480/960 for STFs, and, if a drop to FAs had to be made to counterbalance this, I would have dropped both space and ground to 680, not 680/480. This way, the "conceptual plan" to drive people into FAs would exist (as the min-maxer loot gatherer that can't handle E-STFs would be in the FAs outside of the required Omega grind), and "casual" players would prefer the higher payout for their time (at least until they can handle E-STFs).
As always, it's "your call", but I still smell hypocrisy in these *ahem* maneuvers. For trying to raise up the overall dilithium availability and refining rates, putting all the dilithium in one basket isn't gonna drive up the play-rates, it's just gonna aggrivate select portions of the community... Honestly, I'd ditch the "Cryptic select" part of it and scatter dilithium all over the place so that 3.5 hours of play = 8000 dilithium, and you get the "goal" of having everyone maxing dilithium...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Your boss cuts your pay, then fires you, then rehires you at cut pay.
You still get a cut pay, which is better then nothing at all.
Don't get me wrong, I would love a nice and easy mission that lets me get 50 romulan, fleet and omega marks plus 5000 dilithium in half an hour's worth of gameplay, but that's not going to happen.
What we got is a compromise, which is frankly, not perfect, but better then before.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Season 7 is an awesome content filled update that the team is very proud of that has been overshadowed by player frustrations over the Dilithium changes. Cryptic has and always will take player feedback into consideration when making decisions and this is a case where we agree with the players that Dilithium should be back in the STFs. It is more fun to run STFs when you can earn Dilithium towards end game gear and no amount of data driven logic can outweigh this.
Well, color me surprised.
Thank you for listening to our feedback, hopefully next time the devs and part of the community that is willing to test and give constructive feedback can work these kinds of issues out on tribble before it hits the general playerbase.
Pity. I liked the changes. it made all the fleet actions, fleet events, STFs, and what-have-you distinct and drew me to play Starbase 24 for the first time since I started playing. But of course, the resounding cacaphony of incessant whinging from the dimwitted masses win out over good old-fashioned reason and logic.
I feel badly for Stahl and the STO team, who have not only had to take abuse over the Dilithium Exchange rates, but the changes to Dilithium rewards. I've even heard people accusing the dev team of fabricating the intention to change it to curry favour with the players by changing it back? Since when were we entitled to this stuff?
Does anyone remember playing when there was no dilithium at all? I don't remember anyone complaining then. People still ran STFs. Oh, but hey, it's not worth doing if the only thing you get out of it is fun, right?
Does anyone remember playing when there was no dilithium at all? I don't remember anyone complaining then. People still ran STFs. Oh, but hey, it's not worth doing if the only thing you get out of it is fun, right?
You can't use that as an argument really. That's like me saying "hey, remember when bread was free and nobody got paid, but now people charge for bread and you don't get paid you complain..."
They decided to make Dilithium an integral part of end game content, they can't then turn around and remove most of the sources of gaining it whilst upping the cost of things it's used for.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
Pity. I liked the changes. it made all the fleet actions, fleet events, STFs, and what-have-you distinct and drew me to play Starbase 24 for the first time since I started playing. But of course, the resounding cacaphony of incessant whinging from the dimwitted masses win out over good old-fashioned reason and logic.
I feel badly for Stahl and the STO team, who have not only had to take abuse over the Dilithium Exchange rates, but the changes to Dilithium rewards. I've even heard people accusing the dev team of fabricating the intention to change it to curry favour with the players by changing it back? Since when were we entitled to this stuff?
Does anyone remember playing when there was no dilithium at all? I don't remember anyone complaining then. People still ran STFs. Oh, but hey, it's not worth doing if the only thing you get out of it is fun, right?
There's fun, then there's reward
Diablo pretty much figured out the formula: Kill=Reward. Fun for many if not most is found in the trophies/reward you get after completing a run successfuly. IF dilithium was not required for SO much, if there wasnt a number of reasons this happened originally and IF STF's generated proper rewards. There would NOT have been the complaining there is right now. STF's for the effort you have to throw into them especially the elites do NOT give proper rewards and in many eyes never HAVE. I'm glad my fleet is beginning to enter phase 4 of base construction so i can start phasing out my STF gear and going pure fleet. But i still need GOBS of dilithium. There is no way around that.
It's linked and that link cant be as cut as you think.
I find STFs tedious and take too long. I *loved* fleet actions.
Know what I especially loved? I especially loved doing something more fun than an STF, and getting three times the dilithium for it.
Now? Now everyone's gonna rush back to the STFs, and I get to watch dilithium trickle in again. What, do I have to threaten to get rid of my lifetime subscription? (Actually, I'm busy writing my article on S7 for Geekparty.com, and I'll likely just revise it to reflect this new change. I wrote the article last night, and it was supposed to go live tomorrow, but I'll have to push it back another day.)
All of the fleet actions and STFs should reward about 1k dilithium (less than the current - soon to be lowered rate for Fleet Actions, more for normal STFs, a little less for Elites) with Elite STFs getting something special of value (best I can think of is an item either granting decent loot or say 500 dil).
Then you have:
Normal STFs --> just the dilith (and some of those marks, not that you need many );
Fleet Actions --> dilithium + EC loot;
Elite STFs --> dilithium + player's choice of either decent loot or another 500 dil (oh, and those marks, blah, blah...).
That would be my view.
EDIT: Addendum: If you like STFs, play STFs, if you like Fleet Actions, ... you get the idea. And well elites are elites, they've got to reflect that in rewards as well.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Comments
I'm happy with the cooldowns and the dlilthium that we will be having now.
If the cap is raised by x3 it will severely decrease the value of dilithium and mess up the dilithium exchange, the price per zen will skyrocket, that is one thing that I dont want to see.
Though i do not run STFs nor do I run Fleet Actions, I will commend you on reverting the changes to dilithium earnings to those that dio run these and care very much about those missions.
Glad to see at least that forums are being monitored and listened to.
I'll have further feedback as time goes on I'm sure but the team as a whole did fantastic work on S7 and it'll be nice to get back into game and be focused on that.
This seems like a reasonable approach to me.
Perfect? No. Reasonable? Yes.
You have a wide variety of players to cater to, however, and so I can recognize that perfect isn't always an option.
Can't really add anything else to this. Well said.
"Fool me once, shame on you."
"Fool me twice, shame on me."
In short, we won't be fooled again. Or in the very least, take a note from the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition;
- Keep your lies consistent.
- A good lie is easier to believe than the truth.
But at least you man enough to admit you made a mistake, that's worth something in my book
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
::Heads over to Twitter:: #AngrySTOpossee Sorry folks, raid's cancelled.
In all seriousness though, thank you
Commander, Starfleet Corps of Engineers • 7th Fleet
Commanding Officer, U.S.S. HEART OF OAK • NX-1759-B • Odyssey class Star Cruiser ( Lexington Tactical Configuration))
(Steam - feel free to follow/friend me : )
Sheep!
It's not a good thing. It's a very bad thing. It remains a bad thing despite this PR stunt they staged.
The playerbase deserves an apology for the dev team's actions. I'm not asking for stuff or a free ship or anything like that. But a statement from the dev team stating on how badly they misjudged the playerbase on this matter and how WRONG you guys were to do this would go a fair way towards fixing some of what's happened.
call! STO is a really fun game, and the STF's are still some of the most fun areas in
the game, and the extra Dilith Reward adds a little smile at the end of the run!
Good Job and good Call Cryptic/PWE
That congratulations probably doesn't convey their feelings about the entire situation.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
so either reverse or lower all doff packs in the c/z-store 275 then having to pay way over the odds to exchange whites/green/blues you don't want is crazy.
:eek:
No, the sentiments are glowing, overly positive. You don't congratulate your boss for cutting your pay, then firing you, then hiring you back at cut pay.
STFs are still cut in half for what they used to give out. Yet rates are massively increased. It's a cash grab, nothing else. Designed entirely to limit dilithium but increase the cost of everything to require loads of dilithium.
Can't make the dil you now need? Don't worry, you can pay real world money to get it!
There is nothing, not one single thing, in this entire patch, worthy of praise once you realize the facts of what they're doing. It's borderline sinking their own ship on purpose.
Well, color me impressed! Not only did you all LISTEN to the players, you DID something about it, AND right away!
You certainly have earned my gratitude, and you've done much that adds "Clustomer Marks";) in my account book!
Fleet Commander
Caprica's Revenge
(...actually active since November 2010, which may one day be important to archaeologists, but not to anyone else...)
^This^
My thoughts exactly.
Seperate issues are separate issues, even when related. That's all I'm seeing
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
Saying that, why is it we can't earn small amounts of Fleet Marks when playing all of the game content when we're teamed up with other members from our fleet? A bit like how Guild Wars 2 offers guild influence when doing the same in that game.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
While I agree that the hardest content in the game (E-STF) should pay the "best", this maneuver all but assures everyone rushes to the E-STF queues again, and (especially) the space fleet actions will dry back up like S5, S6, etc. - what's more important, random consoles/loot/ECs and Dil, or the same amount of Dil & Omega Marks?
I would have gone with the "promised" (or proposed, depending on how one looks at it) 480/960 for STFs, and, if a drop to FAs had to be made to counterbalance this, I would have dropped both space and ground to 680, not 680/480. This way, the "conceptual plan" to drive people into FAs would exist (as the min-maxer loot gatherer that can't handle E-STFs would be in the FAs outside of the required Omega grind), and "casual" players would prefer the higher payout for their time (at least until they can handle E-STFs).
As always, it's "your call", but I still smell hypocrisy in these *ahem* maneuvers. For trying to raise up the overall dilithium availability and refining rates, putting all the dilithium in one basket isn't gonna drive up the play-rates, it's just gonna aggrivate select portions of the community... Honestly, I'd ditch the "Cryptic select" part of it and scatter dilithium all over the place so that 3.5 hours of play = 8000 dilithium, and you get the "goal" of having everyone maxing dilithium...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
You still get a cut pay, which is better then nothing at all.
Don't get me wrong, I would love a nice and easy mission that lets me get 50 romulan, fleet and omega marks plus 5000 dilithium in half an hour's worth of gameplay, but that's not going to happen.
What we got is a compromise, which is frankly, not perfect, but better then before.
Well, color me surprised.
Thank you for listening to our feedback, hopefully next time the devs and part of the community that is willing to test and give constructive feedback can work these kinds of issues out on tribble before it hits the general playerbase.
I feel badly for Stahl and the STO team, who have not only had to take abuse over the Dilithium Exchange rates, but the changes to Dilithium rewards. I've even heard people accusing the dev team of fabricating the intention to change it to curry favour with the players by changing it back? Since when were we entitled to this stuff?
Does anyone remember playing when there was no dilithium at all? I don't remember anyone complaining then. People still ran STFs. Oh, but hey, it's not worth doing if the only thing you get out of it is fun, right?
You can't use that as an argument really. That's like me saying "hey, remember when bread was free and nobody got paid, but now people charge for bread and you don't get paid you complain..."
They decided to make Dilithium an integral part of end game content, they can't then turn around and remove most of the sources of gaining it whilst upping the cost of things it's used for.
There's fun, then there's reward
Diablo pretty much figured out the formula: Kill=Reward. Fun for many if not most is found in the trophies/reward you get after completing a run successfuly. IF dilithium was not required for SO much, if there wasnt a number of reasons this happened originally and IF STF's generated proper rewards. There would NOT have been the complaining there is right now. STF's for the effort you have to throw into them especially the elites do NOT give proper rewards and in many eyes never HAVE. I'm glad my fleet is beginning to enter phase 4 of base construction so i can start phasing out my STF gear and going pure fleet. But i still need GOBS of dilithium. There is no way around that.
It's linked and that link cant be as cut as you think.
I find STFs tedious and take too long. I *loved* fleet actions.
Know what I especially loved? I especially loved doing something more fun than an STF, and getting three times the dilithium for it.
Now? Now everyone's gonna rush back to the STFs, and I get to watch dilithium trickle in again. What, do I have to threaten to get rid of my lifetime subscription? (Actually, I'm busy writing my article on S7 for Geekparty.com, and I'll likely just revise it to reflect this new change. I wrote the article last night, and it was supposed to go live tomorrow, but I'll have to push it back another day.)
All of the fleet actions and STFs should reward about 1k dilithium (less than the current - soon to be lowered rate for Fleet Actions, more for normal STFs, a little less for Elites) with Elite STFs getting something special of value (best I can think of is an item either granting decent loot or say 500 dil).
Then you have:
Normal STFs --> just the dilith (and some of those marks, not that you need many
Fleet Actions --> dilithium + EC loot;
Elite STFs --> dilithium + player's choice of either decent loot or another 500 dil (oh, and those marks, blah, blah...).
That would be my view.
EDIT: Addendum: If you like STFs, play STFs, if you like Fleet Actions, ... you get the idea. And well elites are elites, they've got to reflect that in rewards as well.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!