Well, we're still getting our dillithium! And we have new episodes to play! I'm excited whatever the changes!! And we have a great game that is action-packed and suspenseful without bloody/gore violence. Just as long as the game works great, you take our concerns into consideration, and you keep the game as awesome as it is now, and improving every day, I'll always be a player! Thanks Cryptic! I love STO!!! ((PS>>> I just made Commander...)))
Well, we're still getting our dillithium! And we have new episodes to play! I'm excited whatever the changes!! And we have a great game that is action-packed and suspenseful without bloody/gore violence. Just as long as the game works great, you take our concerns into consideration, and you keep the game as awesome as it is now, and improving every day, I'll always be a player! Thanks Cryptic! I love STO!!! ((PS>>> I just made Commander...)))
The most ironic is that the reputation system actually damage the reputation of STO. When you are in business, Cryptic you are making players not happy and it is very hard to gain back reputation now, players just don't trust you anymore. You might return some dilithium, but last week my fleet lost 14 active friends, they all said they never want to play Star Trek Online anymore and it makes me want to quit now. bye.
Despite Cryptic's god awful decision with the diliithium changes and reputation system for end game gear, my fleet is still growing strong. I think the only thing with our fleet that keeps us in this game right now is purely the company. We're also running Dilithium events to help people get through stuff like Deferi Daily to hit their cap each day. Now we're running these as groups I'm finding I'm exceeding what I can refine each day, although when I get back to work it'll probably be a different story.
I can't see up and quitting will give the best results. Yeah it may help Cryptic see the light in the long run after they've had to shut down servers, but that means alot of people losing out on playing STO.
The best option IMO is to stick with it and voice our opinions. I find it funny that the Ask Cryptic comes out and I barely see any questions in regards to the recent changes, but you go to the Dev Blog posts and there is tons of feedback.
If the Ask Cryptic was only to get questions about the recent changes and when are they going to fix these horrid changes they have made, they'd have to respond to them and they can't just make up questions if they don't want to answer them (well they could and if they did I'd probably have an even lower opinion of Cryptic). But if we don't say anything when Ask Cryptic comes out, the chances of something being done will be less likely.
Most the fun in this game for me is getting on with my friends and fleet members, getting on Mumble and having a laugh. Although, the recent cost changes to upgrade the DOFF's does still have me annoyed.
Either way.... Never Give Up! Never Surrender! (Galaxy Quest)
I have been reading this thread for a while, and it bothers me on several levels....I have been playing around with season 7 and IT IS NOT A BAD UPDATE. it is not perfect by anymeans, but i have come to expect no game will be 100% perfect.
As for the grind with dilithium...You can meet your 8k limit daily, in about an hour and half in most cases by simply doing the dailies, pvp, deferi sector, the three in the eta eradani system, strange new worlds, and any stfs/fleet actions you want to fill the gap. I agree with the removal of some of the dilithium from somethings. It forces us to experience the game as a whole. So the argument that you can't make your 8k limit without hours of play time is false. You just want to things are they were before. Things Change get used to it.
As for STFs this systems works well for more casual players such as a few of my friends, it helps them obtain endgame stuff without spending 12 hours a day doing stfs. As those drops in the old system where pretty random, this helps everyone upgrade and get the systems they want.
You may bash me for speaking out against the grain, or ACTUALLY LIKING season 7, but there it is.
You may bash me for speaking out against the grain, or ACTUALLY LIKING season 7, but there it is.
I actually agree with you in regards to earning your Dilithium. Especially alot quicker in groups like I said previously. My issue is purely with the low cap and the amount of dilithium required for all these extras and increase in cost on stuff like DoFF's, I do think if your gonna be doing everything in this game that costs Dilithium (Crafting, Upgrading Doff's and Projects) the cap does need an increase and the amount of dilithium rewarded needs to be increased on a few things or scaled down on Projects (200k Dilithium for a fish tank, DJ? Seriously?).
A reputation system is a sure way to make everyone get what they want, I agree. However they should have left the Old requisition system available still at the change over for anyone that still had the EDCs / Salvages etc or opened the store to people who had EDC's etc that got converted so they didn't lose out on the stuff they had earned. It would have been nice to have known that the Crate wouldn't be available to use till Tier 3.
Aside from the bugs (to be expected) the only thing I was 100% against is the increase in price of upgrading your DoFF's and adding 1000 Dilithium to each recruitment assignment from the Personal Officer. It'd be nice to see the DIL Cap Doubled at least for LTS / Gold and made available for purchase off the C-Store. They've done it for EC Cap and Bank Slots, why not Dilithium? I bet you alot of people who aren't Gold or LTS would purchase it. Then hey look, they've made some more income and at the same time made some players happy.
I agree with you that there are issues with the dilithium cap, but many of those issues have been going on since Season 6 launched and the large dilithium projects, etc have been released.
The Auto-Refine which gold/lts subscribers are supposed to get has been unreliable for a while. But these issues don't have anything to do with Season 7, or any changes they made. That is what I was speaking out against, is the complaints that it will take all day to get 8k...I understand alot of people play this game only want to play PVP or STFs. I think the point of adjusting how and where you can get dilithium was to get players to expand their horizons into the other aspects of the game.
I have to wonder how much of the dissatisfaction with dilithium earnings is due to that people have come to see the dilithium cap as what they 'should' be making with average play, rather than the upper limit.
The huge costs in dilithium the devs put on Starbase projects in order to tailor them for fleets of 50+ members no doubt has no small impact on this, but even without those, I wonder how many people would have felt 'cheated' if they only made 2k dilithium in one or two hours worth of play?
Just a perspective here. The cap isn't what people should be using as a standard, in my opinion.
I have to wonder how much of the dissatisfaction with dilithium earnings is due to that people have come to see the dilithium cap as what they 'should' be making with average play, rather than the upper limit.
The huge costs in dilithium the devs put on Starbase projects in order to tailor them for fleets of 50+ members no doubt has no small impact on this, but even without those, I wonder how many people would have felt 'cheated' if they only made 2k dilithium in one or two hours worth of play?
Just a perspective here. The cap isn't what people should be using as a standard, in my opinion.
The problem is, Dilithum=Zen. And now Zen=Dilithium.
The upper level costs of Starbase projects puts a premium on dilithium. Now it's needed for fleet credits, its needed for zen, its needed for pure CONSTRUCTION both embassy and starbase.
That 8k cap throttles how fast you can get dilithium. You use the cap because while it was work it wasnt all that bad to cap before. If you do as you suggest you then must suggest dilithium isnt worth what the game suggests it is OR what the devs SAY it is. The fact that they suggested it should basically take 2nd job type of hours to cap out says all i need to hear about how they feel about the people playing this game. And how i should feel about them. I've done this dance in other games it never ends well. Those games survived. Though Funcom is being sold off. Your 2k Dilithium in 1-2 hours of play? That's what the devs want.
The problem is, Dilithum=Zen. And now Zen=Dilithium.
The upper level costs of Starbase projects puts a premium on dilithium. Now it's needed for fleet credits, its needed for zen, its needed for pure CONSTRUCTION both embassy and starbase.
That 8k cap throttles how fast you can get dilithium. You use the cap because while it was work it wasnt all that bad to cap before. If you do as you suggest you then must suggest dilithium isnt worth what the game suggests it is OR what the devs SAY it is. The fact that they suggested it should basically take 2nd job type of hours to cap out says all i need to hear about how they feel about the people playing this game. And how i should feel about them. I've done this dance in other games it never ends well. Those games survived. Though Funcom is being sold off. Your 2k Dilithium in 1-2 hours of play? That's what the devs want.
It's interesting the value people put on grinding and getting as much in-game currency by any means they can. Well, I guess people play these games for their own reasons, but I don't play it for the grind, or to max out my dilithium every day. That isn't the goal for me.
And I think I have much more fun and get much more enjoyment out of the game thanks to that.
Perhaps the problem isn't the dance, but that you want to dance in the first place?
Simply put, dilithium costs have gotten far too expensive to actually be called "fun." We just hit T4 and are banging for the shipyard. I've waited, and grinded hard in anticipation of getting a F-AE. 900,000dil PLUS for the shipyard. How can this be? Do the devs actually PLAY as part of a fleet, do they not know that this price isn't "fun", it's back-breaking? As it is projects for the fleet are slowly grinding to a halt under the strain of both fleet and reputation requirements. How could the devs NOT have seen this coming?
Cryptic, whatever motive you had for shaping the game this way IS destroying all semblance of enjoyment. For Christ sake, I signed up to kill ships, explore and enjoy the company of people who feel passionately about the StarTrek IP, not to be a one-man Cash Cow for people who seem to have gotten far to greedy for my own good.
Something to consider: I have 24 other games on my box, and another soon to be loaded. If you, Dan, had the choice between playing a game that you love, but doesn't seem to give frak about you, or whether you're enjoying yourself, or a game like Skyrim, what would YOU do? I suspect that there are many of us who are being forced by STO's new "financial model" to make this stark choice. Again, I like STO, but I simply can't commit this much of my time and resources to it just to succeed at it.
What do I suggest that the devs do? I have no suggestions. You guys have to know that you've gone WAY too far with costs. Start there perhaps.
Didn't read the whole thread, I was glad at first that dilitium was reintroduced into stf. Well good play reduce fleet action dilitium to put it into dilitium. And now the game is a dilitium sink and its getting a lot harder to get it so not happy at all.
I think I'm gonna get that Diablo 3 game now. You're taking the fun out of this game.
Jamal : Tactical space specialist. USS Bug Warrior and many others
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
Didn't read the whole thread, I was glad at first that dilitium was reintroduced into stf. Well good play reduce fleet action dilitium to put it into dilitium. And now the game is a dilitium sink and its getting a lot harder to get it so not happy at all.
I think I'm gonna get that Diablo 3 game now. You're taking the fun out of this game.
I can understand this, but when you can make 1k+ dilithium just on DOFF assignments (effort required: near zero), it is hard to determine how 'alot harder' it is than before such changes.
I am still hoping the devs make adjustments for smaller fleets. With the addition of Embassies, the smaller fleets now have twice the demands if they want to keep up with the limited assignments (ours may miss being able to do the latest one because of the need to work on our Embassy).
not being funnie but they saying most players look at most players
a new account (dont realy need dill as wast as low lvls)
b dill items at low lvl become useless in 5-10lvls
c stf only got use due to the pay of dill and loot ( boring and pointless now)
d only real time u need dill is when u join a fleet and want to help build
d.1 u hit lvl 50 and u need zen for reskill
d.2 u hit lvl 50 and want a good ship from z-store
d.3 u hit 50 and want a carrier with good hanger bays
yes the 8k cap dose become a pain even befor the pointless changes due to like my fleet at tier 4 asking for 300k- stupid amounts of dill to get the job done (not counting embassy now)
most of the content in this game done once at low lvls and not realy done again most
most of the post here about the cap and dill changes is near to good points it SHOULDNT OF BEEN CHANGED
if u wanted more people to have dill pay (most players being low lvls) all u had to do is add smal amounts to things like the gorn mine filed normal pay and loot with a extra small pay of say 100 to 200 dill for the newbis (not that there realy use till lvl 50)
only change to stf's should of been little less loot and added the bnp (everyone happy)(game has not become a 9-5 job)
as an opion u could of added for fleets or in z-store the opion to incress the cap by 2k for players in fleets on tier3 and higher for the dill refine the even easyer part is befor any says it u add in the game a simple ui that if u join a fleet tier 3 for the extra 2k it stays active soon as u leave it deactive keeping u at the normal 8k it not hard to do this
this then for high tier fleets can do the stupid amounts of dill for fsb jobs + embassy
eceryone happy still and game still not 9-5 job + new pve's everyone still playing and happy
not this TRIBBLE u have now that clearly see less players in the game and boring
p.s since the change of stf and borg chips ds9 is preity much a ghost town well done for that too
if ur going to keep the changes as is u need to cut all dill cost on fleet star base by half!!!!!!!!!
this is just my take on what should of happend others may think different and others may agree and others have different idears
The problem is not the 8k cap, that in my opinion is fine (since they are so worry about the imaginary "too much Dilithium in the economy "). The problem here is that they took away any kind of fun while u try to get dill. Yes, before this mess and their "fixes" grinding was not soooooooo boring and flat. Get the SAME amount of dill we were used to make everyday now is just harder... it feels harder. Im sure the one who said few comments ago that get 2k dill is ok never tried to buy a 30k dill hangar bay or fill the insane fleet projects with 1.9 million dill.
And then, of course, we have this stupid unbalance where u can get VA rank in one week with a hand tied behind ur back just for wait 6325763 days to get the rep to tier 2.
Lol there is now a rumour they will take away dilithium from fleet action dailies to replace it with fleet marks. Bye bye 8k cap, I will never be able to reach you now hehe.
Aaah, cryptic, I can't wait until you take away all possible ways to get dilithium so the only way to get it is by buying it with IRL money.
well lets stay with the reassignment for a moment, lets say i have all white doffs and i want to change into one purple, costs as follows:
white to green:
5 whites + 500 dil = 1 green
green to blue
5 greens + 2500 dill = 1 blue
blue to purple
5 blues + 5000 dill = 1 purple
5x5000 + 5x(2500) + 25x(500) = 50k dil
so one purple BOFF costing now 50k dilithium and 25 white boffs???
This is actually a case of exponential growth. You have to multiply your greens by 25(5/blue) and the whites by another 5 (5 for each of the 25 greens). There is a small arithmetic error as well. So to correct the numbers:
1(5000) + 5(2500) + 25(500) = 30k dil
so one purple BOFF costing now 30k dilithium and 125 white BOffs..
Comments
STO took a PWI to the knee.
what new episodes?
I can't see up and quitting will give the best results. Yeah it may help Cryptic see the light in the long run after they've had to shut down servers, but that means alot of people losing out on playing STO.
The best option IMO is to stick with it and voice our opinions. I find it funny that the Ask Cryptic comes out and I barely see any questions in regards to the recent changes, but you go to the Dev Blog posts and there is tons of feedback.
If the Ask Cryptic was only to get questions about the recent changes and when are they going to fix these horrid changes they have made, they'd have to respond to them and they can't just make up questions if they don't want to answer them (well they could and if they did I'd probably have an even lower opinion of Cryptic). But if we don't say anything when Ask Cryptic comes out, the chances of something being done will be less likely.
Most the fun in this game for me is getting on with my friends and fleet members, getting on Mumble and having a laugh. Although, the recent cost changes to upgrade the DOFF's does still have me annoyed.
Either way.... Never Give Up! Never Surrender! (Galaxy Quest)
Well....STO has become a parody of itself,so that quote is quite fitting.:D
Take back your home,end the grind!
Volunteer moderators policing the forums is like a mall cop trying to solve a murder.
As for the grind with dilithium...You can meet your 8k limit daily, in about an hour and half in most cases by simply doing the dailies, pvp, deferi sector, the three in the eta eradani system, strange new worlds, and any stfs/fleet actions you want to fill the gap. I agree with the removal of some of the dilithium from somethings. It forces us to experience the game as a whole. So the argument that you can't make your 8k limit without hours of play time is false. You just want to things are they were before. Things Change get used to it.
As for STFs this systems works well for more casual players such as a few of my friends, it helps them obtain endgame stuff without spending 12 hours a day doing stfs. As those drops in the old system where pretty random, this helps everyone upgrade and get the systems they want.
You may bash me for speaking out against the grain, or ACTUALLY LIKING season 7, but there it is.
Commanding Officer USS Frontenac
Commanding Officer Enterprise NX-01
I actually agree with you in regards to earning your Dilithium. Especially alot quicker in groups like I said previously. My issue is purely with the low cap and the amount of dilithium required for all these extras and increase in cost on stuff like DoFF's, I do think if your gonna be doing everything in this game that costs Dilithium (Crafting, Upgrading Doff's and Projects) the cap does need an increase and the amount of dilithium rewarded needs to be increased on a few things or scaled down on Projects (200k Dilithium for a fish tank, DJ? Seriously?).
A reputation system is a sure way to make everyone get what they want, I agree. However they should have left the Old requisition system available still at the change over for anyone that still had the EDCs / Salvages etc or opened the store to people who had EDC's etc that got converted so they didn't lose out on the stuff they had earned. It would have been nice to have known that the Crate wouldn't be available to use till Tier 3.
Aside from the bugs (to be expected) the only thing I was 100% against is the increase in price of upgrading your DoFF's and adding 1000 Dilithium to each recruitment assignment from the Personal Officer. It'd be nice to see the DIL Cap Doubled at least for LTS / Gold and made available for purchase off the C-Store. They've done it for EC Cap and Bank Slots, why not Dilithium? I bet you alot of people who aren't Gold or LTS would purchase it. Then hey look, they've made some more income and at the same time made some players happy.
By Grabthar's hammer, it's a good idea! (IMO) lol
The Auto-Refine which gold/lts subscribers are supposed to get has been unreliable for a while. But these issues don't have anything to do with Season 7, or any changes they made. That is what I was speaking out against, is the complaints that it will take all day to get 8k...I understand alot of people play this game only want to play PVP or STFs. I think the point of adjusting how and where you can get dilithium was to get players to expand their horizons into the other aspects of the game.
But over all I agree with you Nierion
Commanding Officer USS Frontenac
Commanding Officer Enterprise NX-01
The huge costs in dilithium the devs put on Starbase projects in order to tailor them for fleets of 50+ members no doubt has no small impact on this, but even without those, I wonder how many people would have felt 'cheated' if they only made 2k dilithium in one or two hours worth of play?
Just a perspective here. The cap isn't what people should be using as a standard, in my opinion.
Commanding Officer USS Frontenac
Commanding Officer Enterprise NX-01
The problem is, Dilithum=Zen. And now Zen=Dilithium.
The upper level costs of Starbase projects puts a premium on dilithium. Now it's needed for fleet credits, its needed for zen, its needed for pure CONSTRUCTION both embassy and starbase.
That 8k cap throttles how fast you can get dilithium. You use the cap because while it was work it wasnt all that bad to cap before. If you do as you suggest you then must suggest dilithium isnt worth what the game suggests it is OR what the devs SAY it is. The fact that they suggested it should basically take 2nd job type of hours to cap out says all i need to hear about how they feel about the people playing this game. And how i should feel about them. I've done this dance in other games it never ends well. Those games survived. Though Funcom is being sold off. Your 2k Dilithium in 1-2 hours of play? That's what the devs want.
It's interesting the value people put on grinding and getting as much in-game currency by any means they can. Well, I guess people play these games for their own reasons, but I don't play it for the grind, or to max out my dilithium every day. That isn't the goal for me.
And I think I have much more fun and get much more enjoyment out of the game thanks to that.
Perhaps the problem isn't the dance, but that you want to dance in the first place?
Just a thought.
Cryptic, whatever motive you had for shaping the game this way IS destroying all semblance of enjoyment. For Christ sake, I signed up to kill ships, explore and enjoy the company of people who feel passionately about the StarTrek IP, not to be a one-man Cash Cow for people who seem to have gotten far to greedy for my own good.
Something to consider: I have 24 other games on my box, and another soon to be loaded. If you, Dan, had the choice between playing a game that you love, but doesn't seem to give frak about you, or whether you're enjoying yourself, or a game like Skyrim, what would YOU do? I suspect that there are many of us who are being forced by STO's new "financial model" to make this stark choice. Again, I like STO, but I simply can't commit this much of my time and resources to it just to succeed at it.
What do I suggest that the devs do? I have no suggestions. You guys have to know that you've gone WAY too far with costs. Start there perhaps.
I think I'm gonna get that Diablo 3 game now. You're taking the fun out of this game.
E'Mc2 : Science Reman torp T'Varo, deadly annoyance :P
Kunmal: Tactical fed Klingon, ground specialist, USS Kanewaga
Ka -tet Tier 5 fleet fully completed Starbase and fleet property
I can understand this, but when you can make 1k+ dilithium just on DOFF assignments (effort required: near zero), it is hard to determine how 'alot harder' it is than before such changes.
I am still hoping the devs make adjustments for smaller fleets. With the addition of Embassies, the smaller fleets now have twice the demands if they want to keep up with the limited assignments (ours may miss being able to do the latest one because of the need to work on our Embassy).
a new account (dont realy need dill as wast as low lvls)
b dill items at low lvl become useless in 5-10lvls
c stf only got use due to the pay of dill and loot ( boring and pointless now)
d only real time u need dill is when u join a fleet and want to help build
d.1 u hit lvl 50 and u need zen for reskill
d.2 u hit lvl 50 and want a good ship from z-store
d.3 u hit 50 and want a carrier with good hanger bays
yes the 8k cap dose become a pain even befor the pointless changes due to like my fleet at tier 4 asking for 300k- stupid amounts of dill to get the job done (not counting embassy now)
most of the content in this game done once at low lvls and not realy done again most
most of the post here about the cap and dill changes is near to good points it SHOULDNT OF BEEN CHANGED
if u wanted more people to have dill pay (most players being low lvls) all u had to do is add smal amounts to things like the gorn mine filed normal pay and loot with a extra small pay of say 100 to 200 dill for the newbis (not that there realy use till lvl 50)
only change to stf's should of been little less loot and added the bnp (everyone happy)(game has not become a 9-5 job)
as an opion u could of added for fleets or in z-store the opion to incress the cap by 2k for players in fleets on tier3 and higher for the dill refine the even easyer part is befor any says it u add in the game a simple ui that if u join a fleet tier 3 for the extra 2k it stays active soon as u leave it deactive keeping u at the normal 8k it not hard to do this
this then for high tier fleets can do the stupid amounts of dill for fsb jobs + embassy
eceryone happy still and game still not 9-5 job + new pve's everyone still playing and happy
not this TRIBBLE u have now that clearly see less players in the game and boring
p.s since the change of stf and borg chips ds9 is preity much a ghost town well done for that too
if ur going to keep the changes as is u need to cut all dill cost on fleet star base by half!!!!!!!!!
this is just my take on what should of happend others may think different and others may agree and others have different idears
And then, of course, we have this stupid unbalance where u can get VA rank in one week with a hand tied behind ur back just for wait 6325763 days to get the rep to tier 2.
It's not a rumor.
[Unrepentant] Lapo@overlapo: the problem with space STF
is that you can't properly teabag your defeated opponent
Unrepentant: Home of the Rainbow Warrior and the Rainbow Brigade.
1(5000) + 5(2500) + 25(500) = 30k dil
so one purple BOFF costing now 30k dilithium and 125 white BOffs..