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Official Into the Hive Feedback Thread

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  • sirsrisirsri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    So many things to say.

    Group: Elite difficulty, pug, got queen past the giant gorn of doom phase and about half dead in the next (I believe) final phase. Two tacs and eng and a ... uh... sci? Not sure. Only one group, spent and hour and 15 on it.

    So my old feedback, that it's basically shallow still applies. Adding more damage doesn't actually make it interesting.

    The giant circles you place on the floor don't last long enough to be seem to be more than just inconvenient.

    So the 3 parts.

    First part, run around, hit button, kill borg. Gets old fast, gets old by the time you're on the 8th generator. I'm not sure if you want us to knock them off the edge, but that seems to be a possible trick here, and that could largely trivialize the whole thing.

    Second room, click button, kill borg, don't put circles on your whole group, but if you do... meh. The circle placement should matter (Think defiles on the lich king, or puddles on putricide if you want an example here), but it doesn't. The whole mechanic is a ticking cone of doom onto your character and you shouldn't want to plant it somewhere bad. But well, it doesn't hit very hard and it's actually quite a long tick down so you end up not really getting much out of it.

    Long ominous corridor of nothing. Seems odd. I could get used to it being nothing, but on first impressions it seems odd.

    Queen encounter

    2 borg packs.
    Queen
    2 Borg packs
    Queen + circles
    Giant Gorn + borg pack
    Queen (got her to 50%) + circles + green squares.

    So first of all... why does this encounter reset... at all? one of the good things about the space game is it's relatively 'no fail' nature, you can lemming yourself on the encounter to make progress. On the ground you can get yourself to a point part way through the last boss where your group is simply not capable of succeeding. That's bad. Especially if you die a lot and people have too many wounds to be effective.

    The borg trash packs... again, seems like we could knock them off the edge?
    The queen herself doesn't seem to hit as hard as the elite tactical drones. What's the point in having anti-borg gear that can't stand up to a borg? Because they can almost one shot you even in MK XI maco gear. This might, in part, be an AI focusing fire problem (if you have no idea what I'm talking about lanchester attrition models will explain how it's a quadratic increase in casualties for ranged where you concentrate fire).

    Giant gorn.. meh.

    The whole thing overall:

    The Green squares of doom mechanic: Unfortunately whomever your artist is decided to get creative with these and it's a green square around a decal in green on a black floor. But from within the circle it's actually quite hard to tell which direction is out in a hurry.



    I made a comment in /tts about your designers designing for the technology they think you have, not the technology you actually have. And that deserves some elaboration.

    First of all, your game physics is wonky. Because you don't do ragdoll you end up with animations doing lateral slides. It's looks weird, and completely out of place on the borg and stranger still it's not always clear what effect a 'knockback' is going to have. What does this have to do with 'the hive' when the same basic problem effects ships (including big capital ships like donatra's scimitar)? Well it's not obvious when a knockback shouldn't work, or when it should basically, and so it's not always clear what the designer intent was. Do you expect me to try and knock these guys off the side? That's fine (and surprisingly satisfying even the hundredth time), but if that's a necessary part of the encounter I have no idea. Especially on the queen, where you could knock most of the borg packs off the edge not being able to tell when it's going to behave the way you want and when it isn't is annoying. Maybe your designers can tell, but to an outside observer it just looks like your physics is broken.

    Secondly gates/forcefields. Why do your designers keep putting these things in? Seriously. Did your lead content designer program the gates and think they work perfectly? Because they don't. Ever. The problem is probably actually in your triggering system, not the forcefield/gate code itself, but either way it's not all that helpful. My lingering suspicion is that you suffer from common triggering problems related to floating point rounding errors, z-checks (essentially someone can jump over a trigger point), and your trigger-player collision code isn't executing fast enough or in synch with the client-server position synchronization code. I realize when you started development this was a non option, but these days if you can do that on a GPU on your racks it's much much much much much (did I mention much) better than on a CPU. Seriously, the forefields don't add anything positive to any of the in game content. You died, and tried to respawn well tough you're locked over there. Everyone died, encounter resetting (again, encounters shouldn't reset, that's not consistent with the rest of your game, maybe- big maybe, restart the phase, but not the whole encounter), now you're trapped in a forcefield and have to wait to get killed 'again' because you respawned thinking the encounter was over when it wasn't. You've got technology for respawn points, forcefields, transporters etc. but it's not clear how it's supposed to work when you're just using it from an outside player, and it's more frustrating and disconnecting me from the content than helping.

    Third: You can put all sorts of effects in, which, on their own, look very cool. The green squares of doom for example. But you have to think about how each effect combines with the others you already have. In the first part you only rarely see the green squares in isolation because of all of the effects happening at the same time. It's all well and good to have these cool animations, but they're worse than useless if you can't actually see them happening because they interact badly with other animations. This is a 'you have the technology to show them off, but not show them off well with other animations' problem.

    I could go on, but it's not all that complimentary, and I think you get the idea.

    As I've said previously, the core problems are really your entire ground game, the mechanics of it, and how your designers approach it.

    Into the hive itself has some good overarching stuff to it, it's clear you've learned from the previous STF's with long corridors of trash and so on. It's 3 distinct encounter areas, each of which only takes about 5 minutes if done perfectly, so the pacing is good. But you rely on buggy stuff; clicking the panels seemed to fail twice on us in the first room, but I can't tell you how, because I was clicking, the borg spawned, it *seemed* to work, maybe we wiped or a borg can repair the panel or something, hard to say, forcefields and gateways respawn etc. and the encounter actually gets harder the more you try, and fail, because your character gets more and more wounded. On test this is particularly problematic because there's no easy supply of critical regenerators.


    In the space game basically two good players can carry the other 3 through elite stf's. That might be a bit too easy, but the ground game you need 5 people who are all able to pull their own weight, and you need group abilities synergy- that you don't have because people don't have synergy in pugs. I could easily see some group combinations never being able to do the borg packs phases on the last boss.



    If I were your lead designer I'd pull into the Hive until you've had a look at all of the ground combat, gotten to the point where players can select their own kit abilities and so on, and release it then as a showcase of stuff you couldn't give players before, but can now. Right now it's just a reminder of why not to play ground game elite content if you can avoid it. And that's not fixable on just "The Hive" without trivializing it.
  • sirsrisirsri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    suaveks wrote: »
    No more pointless cutscenes, please...

    If you die once on the floor, then you should know to be careful next time. Keep in mind that STFs are (or at least were...) not about breezing through them without issues, but learning good new strategies and being a team player, even if that means learning on your mistakes. You don't really need a cutscene reminder every time you play just for that.

    Not everyone can actually see that floor being lit.

    Though I agree, more cutscenes don't add much.
  • sirsrisirsri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Oh and unrelated to my previous two points.

    I'm not sure if this is hive specific. But if *one* person cancels out of the cinematic on the last boss the fight starts up, even if the other four people are still watching. Meaning they are dead before knowing what happened.
  • bkell1977abkell1977a Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    brigadooom wrote: »
    Not exactly the epic STF we've been hoping for. Highly disappointing as it is now. Completely missing a space section, on top of being a bit short.

    This corridor I think needs a trick or two. It's dying for some cool firefight or technique with the floor squares.

    Some sort of bounding overwatch or something, where you have to advance down the corridor clearing Borg groups from clear squares (so that you can get to them safely) while at the same time keeping a Borg with a super AOE death laser from being able to charge it up to obliterate the whole corridor, while avoiding the squares on the floor.

    EDIT: OK I nerded out and attempted (very poorly) to illustrate what I meant. Click here.

    A corridor like that shouldn't be wasted!

    Don't know if this is in the thread already but they are doing a space run to match. It's mentioned in another thread, you fight the Borg queens diamond ship.

    Apparently it was going to be a surprise but they let people know because of the negative feedback they're getting.
  • brigadooombrigadooom Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    bkell1977a wrote: »
    Don't know if this is in the thread already but they are doing a space run to match. It's mentioned in another thread, you fight the Borg queens diamond ship.

    Apparently it was going to be a surprise but they let people know because of the negative feedback they're getting.

    Ah, thanks, that's good to know. :)
    ----
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • bkell1977abkell1977a Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    brigadooom wrote: »
    Ah, thanks, that's good to know. :)

    Here's the link:

    http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=6250331#post6250331
  • gpgtxgpgtx Member Posts: 1,579 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    i tryed running it durring the event earlier today 3 out of 4 times i got stopped by the force field bug

    the last time after 45 minutes of trying to get past the final part people just started leaving. we even had the queen down to 10hp until EVERY floor panel lit up green in the room every single one
    victoriasig_zps23c45368.jpg
  • sean2448sean2448 Member Posts: 815 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    and romulan and stf store reputationis up plus colony so where is everyone

    we need people on tribble

    make sure you bring 12 when you copy over
  • rodentmasterrodentmaster Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    That's the first sign of the end of STF participation. Nobody wants that. They're playing STFs on holodeck before it goes "live" and everyone stops bothering with it.
  • flekhflekh Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    That's the first sign of the end of STF participation. Nobody wants that. They're playing STFs on holodeck before it goes "live" and everyone stops bothering with it.

    pretty much that.
    I'll rather enjoy the last couple days before Season 7: Quit in Disgust goes live, than waste it on Tribble. 'Might change my mind if someone reports that they removed the new Dil sinks, but I've pretty much given up hope on that.
  • centersolacecentersolace Member Posts: 11,178 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    flekh wrote: »
    pretty much that.
    I'll rather enjoy the last couple days before Season 7: Quit in Disgust goes live, than waste it on Tribble. 'Might change my mind if someone reports that they removed the new Dil sinks, but I've pretty much given up hope on that.

    I wouldn't mind the dil sinks, but they're making it harder to earn it!!! The Dil sinks should be enough. If they aren't, GET BETTER DIL SINKS!!!! :mad:

    Anyway, going back to the OP, first two rooms are great, simple enough to figure out, challenging to stay alive. The Queens room? Loads of Over Powered enemy walls and big DPS Sponge. Le sad. :(
  • ferrus3ferrus3 Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    So first of all thanks to the Dev team and to everyone else who played Into The Hive with me today. It was fun, if not challenging.
    I don't know if it's just me, or if I'm too used to the old STF's, but with Into The Hive I felt that we completed it out of luck as opposed to anything else. We tried god knows how many times to kill the Borg Queen and then all of a sudden she died and we was happy. :cool: How we killed her, I'm not sure
    Secondly the cut scene is cool, but will most likely be annoying after I've done the mission a couple more times, like 10+.
    Finally after examining the dead Borg queen's head on the ground, and exiting the mission, I never received any Omega Marks. :eek:
    Over all though it was fun and I'm looking forward to it going live.
  • trenttylertrenttyler Member Posts: 110 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I didnt manage to go on the run, becuase i was in a never ending DS9 loading screen. Myabe next time
  • red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I only got to play this once so far. I liked it - although I have VERY limited experience with ground STFs, it was very good. I would however offer the following suggestions:

    1) Do SOMETHING about the pits. They're hard to see and way too easy to fall into. It's very frustrating to be three seconds into the Queen's chamber and end up splattered on the ground 100 feet below.

    2) She seems to regenerate a bit too quickly. It almost seems to completely negate your attack attempt when she recharges. This is frustrating. At least on Normal mode, this should be slowed down considerably, so you can at least have a chance at whittling her away. It's hard enough to survive between rounds, so making you have to essentially start all over again against the Queen once you're already wounded and low on supplies is a bit much.

    There may be other things I'm missing, so I may add to this, but that's what I think overall as of now.

    BTW, apologies to those who I was teaming with - our run went long and I got my connection cut off. Sorry about that.
  • reconalpha1reconalpha1 Member Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I?ve only played it twice not much interest on tribble when I log in. I normally wait 20 -25min and log out if I don?t get in.

    I must say I was disappointed with it. After hearing the Title floating around the forums in the last 2+ years, I thought it would be the jem of all the other STFs you know the preverbal cherry on top.

    Our PUG team managed to finish it in less than 40min considering I played it on the 2nd day it came out on tribble(Elite Version).

    The whole thing felt dated nothing new no clever puzzle to figure out like the others.
    It was basically your typical kill this group and move on type scenario you would find on a patrol ground mission.

    I guess the Hopscotch floor thing did add a small touch of excitement in the beginning but that was it. I have not returned to play it because it just doesn?t peak my interest anymore.

    I guess this would be considered the Superman IV version of the series. I was really hoping for the ?Return of the Jedi? quality version.
  • aegon1iceaegon1ice Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    I finished ITH today and have to say I expected more of it.

    1) The timer for the optional is ridiculous - even more if you think of the shock-plate ping-pong game.

    2) The Assimilated Gorn is almost a 1:1 copy from Elite Force 2. Looks cool, but is the scorpion sting really neccessary? The Borg seem to really have suffered from brain damage thanks to Voyager:rolleyes: They are getting more and more absurd.

    3) Borg Queen
    The best thing of her is the Voice Over. That is really good. Congrats on that. Who did the VO for her? When I first saw her I instantly got the image of Kerrigan from Starcraft 2. You guys love SC2, don't you? First, the Bortas and now the Queen.
    She should stick to the original version of the Queen. Like I said the Borg are getting more and more ridiculous.


    Bugs:
    I get the part with the transporter cells. Nevertheless I think there are a few flaws attached to that.

    1. I died at the Queen fight and spawned in one cell. I then got marked with the targeting scanner and got an Orbital Strike in the cell.

    2.In addition the plattforms in the resurrection cells are the same ones which get electrified. Thus, they will kill you in your cell over and over again.

    Are these two really necessary? The cells should be excluded from Orbital Strikes and electrification. I mean they are rezz-circles and these are meant to be safe from attacks, because you died already...kind of inconsistent game philosophy here. Please make the cells immunity areas.

    3) Rewards. We completed the STF, but did not get any loot. Nor did we get any Omega Marks out of it which is obviously a bug.

    4) The Queen's diying cutscene.
    I think you should look over this once more, because the time the Queen died and moaned my camera was still spanning towards her, making me miss the whole death scene. When the camera reached her spot she was just lying there on the floor :(


    5) Ending...not?

    I thought Into the Hive marks the end of the Borg story line? Where is it. All happens is that we kill the Queen and thats it. No conclusion, no cutscene showing exploding Unimatrix 1, no exploding Borg and alcoves...really disappointing.
    Imagine this in VOY:Endgame:
    Admiral Janeway infects the Queen. Queen just moans and lies dead on the floor. Next scene is how Voyager enters Sol Sector. No explosions, no connection...nothing. Just loose ends.

    Make it and ending it deserves. We fight the Queen - The Borg and show us the success of our efforts. Task Force Omega does not even say "Thanks" after finishing your job and saving billions...
  • red01999red01999 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    aegon1ice wrote: »
    1) The timer for the optional is ridiculous - even more if you think of the shock-plate ping-pong game.

    Although I wouldn't say ridiculous, I did think it was too short, though I didn't think of that for my little review.
    aegon1ice wrote: »
    3) Borg Queen
    The best thing of her is the Voice Over. That is really good. Congrats on that. Who did the VO for her? When I first saw her I instantly got the image of Kerrigan from Starcraft

    Agreed, the VO was good.
    aegon1ice wrote: »
    5) Ending...not?

    I thought Into the Hive marks the end of the Borg story line? Where is it. All happens is that we kill the Queen and thats it. No conclusion, no cutscene showing exploding Unimatrix 1, no exploding Borg and alcoves...really disappointing.

    I don't see how this is the end. Killing a queen doesn't bring the whole collective down, I imagine. I think the temporary victory Voyager seemed to attain was probably largely bolstered by the fact that they obliterated a lot of Borg infrastructure doing it.

    Chances are a new queen is chosen shortly thereafter. Considering she's essentially the amalgamated essence of the entire collective, you would, in practical terms, have to probably cripple the collective badly on a more fundamental level in order to prevent a new queen from rising.
  • mikiiymikiiy Member Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited October 2012
    Seems this got changed quiete a bit since we tested it the last time.. theres now roamers and the epic end fight feels now a bit more epic too.. in fact i think it has grown to the point (on elite) that having 2 decent healers for the boss fight seems to be recommended with all the crazy borg drone spam there.

    Having almost all the room flash up green in the end seems a bit to much and overall i think this may be most pug-unfriendly stf on elite now since the last room seems to be close to impossible when not bringing the right class combination (i.e. no healer).
  • thundraniumthundranium Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    i would like the mission a bit longer and more co operative team work objectives out there. e.g guarding transformer in CGE and players have to simultaneously hit the console in IGE. The area map seems to be shorter than the other 3. It would be nice to extend the map a bit and more borgs come out and play. It wouldn't hurt to have a few hostages for us to rescue to get extra bonus drop.
  • armilianlgarmilianlg Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    As of yet, have not recieved any Omega Marks from Hive Onslaught on tribble server.
  • bghostbghost Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    armilianlg wrote: »
    As of yet, have not recieved any Omega Marks from Hive Onslaught on tribble server.
    same here but received some from the other stf's
  • karmapointkarmapoint Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited November 2012
    Problems in the The hive mission, in elite and normal versions:

    If the queen borg fall in the pit (alone, because the normal player can't throw her), she become invencible and frozen in the small border behind of the plataform.

    You can't hit her, can't throw her, she can't move and can't attack you.

    To reset the room and begin again, you are forced to suicide the whole team and respawn. In the normal version is ok, but in the elite version is really problematic.

    Other problem I noted: The 4 energy cells in the coners. If someone die and wake here, you can't go out, because the console inside and outside of the cell can't work well. Sometimes you can go out alone or wait 2 minutes, but in many cases, you are forced to leave the mission because no one can turn on the console in any of the 4 coners outside of each energy cell or the prisioner can't use the console inside of the cell. This happens in the elite and normal versions, with both factions, kdf and fed.
    Brasilis Elite Squad
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    PW/Crypt can't make more KDF Content?
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