Well, I seem to be crazy lucky and got all three parts of the space mkXII MACO set and all mkXII borg space weapons on 5 characters and have mkXI ground sets on 4 of my 5 characters from EDCs.
I'm using the current currencies to earn dilithium, so I won't really have any spare EDCs or techs to be taken into account when the Rep conversion script hits Holodeck, I'll be on absolutely zero reputation. While this is not a big hassle and the reputation system in itself seems to be fun, it does leave a bad taste in my mouth having completed hundreds of elite runs.
How about giving a headstart for those of us with hundreds of runs under our belt? You Cryptic actually have the data of how many stfs the individual player have run. They are called accolades. This is what I'd do :
Starfleet Silver Star / Klingon Defense Force Silver Star (75 runs) accolades should grant the player tier I Omega Rep.
Starfleet Cross / Klingon Defense Force Cross (150 runs) accolades should grant the player tier II rep. I'm being generous, because 150 runs even on normal give you access to one full mkXI set which is currently told to be the tier III rewards.
U.F.P. Medal of Honor / Klingon Empire Medal of Honor (300 runs) accolades should grant the player tier III in Omega Rep. Players with MoH accolades are very likely to have complete mkXII sets, so they technically should be granted at least tier IV, if not tier V, but I can see tier III a good compromise.
If you do plan to continue adding new factions to this system, don't be afraid to give out a handful of players some well earned reputation with only one faction, they will have plenty more to work on as time passes according to you.
Saving the 4th fleet - my Foundry mission live on Holodeck. Have fun!
The total amount of Dilithium needed to reach tier 5 in Omega or Romulan reputation is 82k total.
OK so the dilithium is another sink, but imho not a problem, with 11 Characters i can theoretically make 88K Dilithium in one day (of course i don't have the time to really do that, but in a weekend and a six pack red bull it should be possible).
My problem rather is the timegating with these Projects again.
I probably could spend the dilithium for all my chars on day 1, then all i would need to do is play a certain amount of STFs to get the Borg Marks, the thing is i will have to wait 2 Months and probably have the marks far sooner than i can even press the buttons.
I can understand why you did that with Starbases, but why slow down personal progress with 40 hour timegates? Or even with dailies?
All you do is keep me out of the game or make me swap characters because there is nothing left to do for me today with my current Character.
Personally i see myself just buying the Fleet Elite gear from the Starbase that is already available to me now instead of grinding every single character up over 2 months to get some half decent gear from STFs.
And once i have that Fleet gear i have no reason to go for STF gear anymore anyway.
But ok whatever, you guys make the game rules, i have no other choice than to play by them and make the best of it.
But really Cryptic, please think about one thing, you keep making NEW systems, for 3 YEARS now.
The Community keeps screaming for CONTENT (and by that we mean STAR TREK STORY MISSIONS), but you keep making Systems and now these silly 10 minute repeatable PvE maps.
Nobody asked for this Reputation System, we asked for an EDC cost for mark 12 Sets, we asked for some item in the system to be Account Bound (Requisitions would have made perfect sense for this) a few new STFs maybe and thats it.
That would have been a logical improvement and delivered what we asked for in far less time, but nope you scratch the whole thing and make a complete new System instead.
One that adds new things people will complain about.
You always do that.
I bet some day when you notice that shooter mode is absolutely unplayable you will just restart there too, instead of doing the 3 or 5 needed fixes to make it playable as it is?
The Problem with that approach is that no System you ever do is really complete and always has these last unfinished 5% hanging in the air... and at some point you will replace it again with another unfinished thing. It's like a never ending cycle.
This is now the 3rd variant of STFs.
You don't keep the Systems you have and fix / polish / improve them over time, you REPLACE them.
That costs time and money and personally i'd rather had seen the invested time this time put in another thing... like a Reputation System for the Foundry, because that one is a REAL broken System and NEEDS replacing ASAP.
The STF System was WORKING and it did so just fine.
And the BS you try to sell us with "chance of getting gear" being a problem for you...
if that was truly the case, then you should have started with getting rid of LockBoxes first.
You can open 1000 LockBoxes and never get the Ship you want, yet you are concerned about players playing STFs and not getting a loot drop?
That doesn't make much sense, does it? I think all you've seen was a System in your game that did not require Dilithium yet, but delivered viable Endgame Gear and needed to be mone(y)tized, and the whiners on the forum were just an opportunity to say "hey you asked for this, look what we made for you".
That makes much more sense, PR wise.
And you know what? THAT IS OK too!
I just don't like to be BSed about stuff.
If that helps you keep the game running then i'm fine with it, but don't tell me that i or anybody else asked for this kind of change.
You said that you've implemented the current system based on someone who plays 3hrs per week. Honestly that statement doesn't fly. You can't possibly earn enough dil or other resources in that time in order to complete the projects and get the gear. As I've stated, you would need to max out your daily dil cap for a month and half just to get a FULL gear set. Never mind the resources needed to fill the projects.
Even if the 3hr/week line was accurate.... what if someone who plays a lot more than 3 hrs per week? You're basically penalizing those who do play more by forcing a minimum time frame for project completion. So there is no reward or incentive to putting more time into the game.
Indeed and that doesn't even take into account the other commitments in game a player may have. There is already a fleet dilithium sink and they are adding a doff one as well. It seems nonsensical!
Just because it seems like a lot of people aren't seeing Cryptic's logic on the dilithium thing.
The currently stated purpose is to make dilithium scarcer. They believe that this will make things easier for the players who grind for dilithium by making others more anxious to buy it, thus altering exchange rates to make dilithium more valuable, so that you can grind less dilithium and get the same zen for it.
The problem with this logic is that it sees the players purchasing dilithium with zen as the only ones who will be putting it into the sinks. This isn't the in-game reality at all, the fact is that many people are putting dilithium into the already existing sinks as fast as they can grind it. That is to say, grinding and sinking dilithium are not actions performed by separate classes of players, but by the same players, which means that ultimately the players who want to get as much as they can out of the game are both grinding and sinking, and the sinking is already outpacing the grinding with the fleet system alone (this all is ignoring the refining cap, which many players are already hitting every day, meaning they cannot possibly grind more no matter how much they put into the game). Making the sources smaller and adding more sinks, as is described here, ultimately just means that players have to work harder and get less, not that their market power increases.
EDIT: Or, because I'm taking an Economics course this semester, Cryptic is modeling this as a simple Classical Supply and Demand problem, and they need to factor in the Keynesian idea of the worker as a consumer.
You are indeed correct reducing the supply of dollars does not not mean the new higher valued dollars will not be used to the things all players need, I.e. Doffs and end-game rewards as well as fleets. F2P Players will not be able to take much advantage from the exchange rate if they are pouring 70% of their dilithium into sinks across the game.
This is a misapplication of the intended use of dilithium.
And as yet we have not had any explanation as to why these new dilithium sinks for season 7 are there. Very very disappointing, it does not inspire trust when the central issue is being evaded.
i'm concerned that dilithium requiments is getting out of hand and is going thru the roof...... while dilthium rewards are being down scaled. seems there in it's self shows it's majorly unbalanced.
in short it seems that cryptics right hand aint got a clue what the left hand is doing with some of these changes. as a long term player i'm concerned it's going to be more harmful than good to the games health. how the changes to the doff exchange system is a smart move????... unless i get to pick the new doff(s) myself rather than it be random? all the changes just force me away from using that doff exchange altogether.
i'm concerned that dilithium requiments is getting out of hand and is going thru the roof...... while dilthium rewards are being down scaled. seems there in it's self shows it's majorly unbalanced.
in short it seems that cryptics right hand aint got a clue what the left hand is doing with some of these changes. as a long term player i'm concerned it's going to be more harmful than good to the games health. how the changes to the doff exchange system is a smart move????... unless i get to pick the new doff(s) myself rather than it be random? all the changes just force me away from using that doff exchange altogether.
There is absolutly no rationale or logic behind the dilithium costs in the doff system that meets with any current explanation by Cryptic.
So this means that since I have the assimilated engines, Deflector and Shields that I now have a borg tractor beam.
Okay now all I need is the cutting array to give the borg a taste of there own medicine.
In all seriousness if this makes it easier to get the MX XII gear I'm up for it as it seems to be virtually impossible to get them at the moment
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"We agree it isn?t fair and are about to change the STF reward structure"
When we tested the sys on Tribble pre season6 we told u it wasn't fair. Now development time must go into correcting the issue rather than developing promised content. Are u truthfully listening to our criticism as we test the new sys on tribble?
"The goal of the conversion is to make it fair and equitable for everyone"
We lost out with the conversion of emblems to dilithium.
"Any items converted this way will go into a storage device which cannot be retrieved until the character reaches Tier 5"
No buyables teir 1-4?
"Our calculations show on average a 60% reduction in the number of runs needed to get a full gear set"
This is a calculation based on mk12, mk11 gear (which saw most players content) increases in price, with the investment required to advance and the removal of salvage stf dilithium gains r lower. Furthermore those who painfully did acquire the mk12 set must now return to further grind. Essentially the calculation is narrow and does'nt incorporate a multitude of factors.
"The removal of the Assimilated Module from the existing Borg Space Set has been a balancing move we've been meaning to make for some time now"
There goes my mixed Borg/Reman set bonus. Was PvP considered in the balancing or as always neglected?
"This predictable, regimented progression will allow players that have been playing for months (perhaps even years)"
Uhh Stf sets haven't been out years.. who's writing this lol.
To much demand to little supply with the dilith in sto and this is gonna make it worse in that matter. I like the fact they are working on changes but sometimes the implementation is not indicative of the end result.
My suggestions for now:
Consolidation of currencies:
[*] We only need EC, GPL, and Dilith, and Fleet/STF Marks
[*] EC for base gear, GPL for Social items like uniform(s) and dilith for the zen and the Fleet/STF marks for obvious reasons, anything more just makes it too complex and back to how it was ala S1.
Resources for Projects:
[*] These need to be dynamic based on number of people in a fleet vs static
[*] Bigger the fleet more needed (less time on completion), Smaller fleet less need (more time for completion)
[*] STF/gear projects you can still keep to marks, but leave the dilith for the gear when you want to convert it to account bound or just unbind it.
For the love of sanity please increase or have the option in the store to increase our daily refine limit cause 8k a day for those that only have 1 toon per faction per account is not even gonna cut it with all the sinks.
Dan, this is what I do not get. You clearly state that you want to reward players for there time with Dilithium, and allow a f2p or any player have the ability to buy stuff for free by converting time into Dilithium, and then into Zen to buy what you want.
The thing is, with these changes to the Dilthium rewards, you are effectively stating that you are going to cut the worth of our time in game by half!!
Why? Will every single mission in game reward Dilithium on replay when season 7 goes live?
That is the only thing that could possibly make up for what you are about to do, why devalue the worth of your players time, but then increase ways that you have to use Dilithium to get anywhere in game.....
The designers had a desire to see more people playing the Fleet Actions by making Fleet Actions the best source of Dilithium. Keep in mind that STFs will reward Dilithium AND Omega Marks - and Omega Marks can then be converted to more Dilithium after you've hit max level in Omega, so it may seem just be a short sighted argument.
Ok dstahl but you are forgetting the people who simply dont want to do FLEET ACTIONS AT ALL.
what are you doing ? yes you are takeing away the core ELITE stf teams ability to get dilithium and increasing the cost of our gear by 500%
how the hell can you sleep at night knowing what your planning to do against the Elite stf Teams ?
We who farm elite stf should not be penalized it should be encouraged.
WE DESERVE the rewards of 1.100 dilithium per Elite Stf.
What you are telling us is AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA you can now go and do Traelus satelite mission instead of Elite Stf and get more DIlithium! takes you 2 min ! HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
are you kidding me ?
dstahl me and many others are in a solo fleet. that means we are alone in our fleets we have a channel in wich me share and go do elite stfs.
WE DONT WANT fleet actions. we hate it.
what do we do ? we do elite stfs and want our Dilithium for the effort we put in.
what you are doing is takeing away every single shred of our gameing enjoyment and shove it down the toilette by lowering the reward from 1.100 dilithium to a meager and lowly pitiful excuse of 480.
Which one of your developers said they wanted us to do more fleet actions and lower the rewards from elite stfs Let him come to the forum and say it in our face.
he is attempting to ruin the game for us.
is he working for another company on the side perhaps ?
he must be since he destroys the game 480 dilithium for a elite stf
we are 5 man team players doing elite stfs and ur excuse for the time and effort we do is 480 dilithium wish is same as 2 min traelus mission in some pitiful solo corner of the map ?
thanks for kicking us in the face
If only they fix Cloaking bugg *new message BOOM decloacked.
Ok, just checked with the designers and here is what they've done for Season 7
- Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
- Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
- Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium)
In Season 7, Fleet Actions will now become the best source of Dilithium between the two types of Events.
In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
All others = Green + 960 Dilithium
In addition, at max level in the Omega Fleet a repetable project unlocks that converts Omega Marks to Dilithium at a rate of 50 marks to 500 dilithium or thereabouts.
The new Red Alert daily in the New Romulus Sector also rewards 480 Dilithium in addition to Rom marks.
All of this could change before Season 7 hits, but that is what the current plan is.
When you say "fleet actions", are you talking the old fleet actions (ie, those with the visible first/second/third mechanic), or are you talking "all" fleet actions including the mark-earning fleet alerts / incursion / blockade / 20 man defense / NWS?
And if it's only the former, does the latter get Dilith at the "STF" rates of 240 per "normal" run?
If so, this addresses concern #1 of mine, as that "most" (if not all) "end-game content" will be rewarding players with Dilithium, meaning it is that much closer to being a "true" time-earned currency...
Which then brings up my second concern, this line:
"A casual player should be able to earn all inputs required for the Omega Reputation system within 3 1-hour play sessions per week." (Paraphrase as trying to search out this post might lead to epic fail/frustration, and emphasis mine)
As one of those "casual" players, I play normals only. Don't have the time / fleet / mad solo skills (aka love for tactical in an Escort) etc. to run elites on a regular basis. Many "casual" players feel the same way.
My math: 240 per run * 4 runs/day * 3 sessions/week * 8.6 weeks (60 calendar days) = 24,768. A far cry from the ~80,000 Dilithium I'm hearing is the cost to get to tier 5, nevermind the 30,000 extra to complete that Mk XII set that's driving this whole change...
Heck, even 90 days worth (12.9 weeks) of running the 3 1-hour sessions only equals 37,152 dilithium overall...
And even doubling it to having the players grinding out elites only for this timeframe = not enough to cover the costs...
You see, when you first advertised "reputation = easily attainable inputs", I though that by diverting my 3 hours of STFs/week would cover all my dilithium needs for Omega. Then toss in 3 hours of Rommie content/week and cover Rommie costs. Then, all remaining income can go to the Starbase/new DOff system costs (or, I can take "DOffing income" and apply it to DOffs with the new increases in upgrades/general recruitment, and apply fleet actions to the starbase, etc. etc.) However, it seems that I'm still gonna have to take a month off from spending dilithium anywhere else in the game just to cover the costs of these reputation systems, and that's assuming that I actually max out at 8k Dil daily (which, if I were to only do 240 paying STFs/other activities, means 34 activities/day, cut down some if the DOffs pay well or I do the "campy" 3k B'tran run which eats up 30+ minutes until I get the systems down...)
Makes me a lot less keen on fully levelling my KDF Sci to go with my 2 Fed sci's, or branching out and trying KDF engineer eventually, as getting them into "endgame" is gonna be a pain in the kiester...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
But really Cryptic, please think about one thing, you keep making NEW systems, for 3 YEARS now.
The Community keeps screaming for CONTENT (and by that we mean STAR TREK STORY MISSIONS), but you keep making Systems and now these silly 10 minute repeatable PvE maps.
THIS. More Storycontent please!!!
Hopefully you are tricking enough grinders and instant gratifications junkies into buying Dilithium with Zen that you have enough money to get STORY content into season 8 :rolleyes:
Am I glad I didn't find any way to buy a LTS with the Steam Wallet. I would have, just out of impulsive behavior.
The only thing I still somewhat enjoyed in the game was doing ground STFs with a couple of friends BECAUSE I had a (random) chance to get something "interesting" along with a fair amount of dilithium and some crappy loots that could give me a couple of thousands of ECS at a merchant's desk (which still is better than ZERO).
A few weeks back, I bought two character slots to help in the grinding scheme that the starbase is. I leveled them both up but I havent done any episode yet because I'm waiting for the reruns to happen (there is a recuring bug on KDF that prevents us to get the special rewards on reruns when we already did the episodes).
So, up until now, I was enjoying my two new toons because of STFs. When season 7 hits, I will probably stop playing STFs because I am not interested in any of the new reputation marks.
I dont care anymore about fleet events (and I am not alone because, on KDF, queuing for one match makes you wait too long before it starts simply for the lack of other players queuing).
I never cared about Nukara or Defera. I played the Vault event until I got my MK XII purple set on one character. I will not play Vault for the new reputation system.
What will I want to do in this game when season 7 hits? I really can't see it. Can anyone give me a clue?
I keep seeing the words by devs on the forum similar to "we are discussing these major issues and will be adjusting them", then weeks, months go by. The SB still takes insane dilithium and Doffs, the bartender assignment is a nightmare trap for most fleets, the chef assignment is so badly designed it is comical. How long does changing some numbers really take? The grind is so bad most of the fleet is burnt out on it.
My biggest problem with S7 is just dilithium. The SB is a giant hole, the embassy will be another giant hole, and the 2 reputation systems and gear costs make the others an impossible task. Not to mention the added costs of dilithium to grind Doffs..for the SB, but don't we need 300% of our daily dil for the SB anyway? The amount of dilithium you current can get for your $ or zen is VERY low, before S6 the average player couldn't easily F2P, now this isn't a problem, it only takes 30-40mins to max out dilithium/day, less for klingons.
In S7 that balance will be pushed out further, you will get nearly no dil for zen, which will force most people to stop trading for dilithium. Even then the people that are F2P will have to shove all their dil into buying way overpriced pieces of equipment for literally months and months, it has the ability to just destroy good sensible economics.
What will I want to do in this game when season 7 hits? I really can't see it. Can anyone give me a clue?
How about playing foundry missions?
RP with the fleet/friends?
Flying STF with some online friends because you like chatting with them.
Casually enjoying the game.
Finding some other game with more content?
[..]
- The goal of the conversion is to retain "purchasing power" as close to what it was previously. We looked at the amount of items needed to obtain gear sets and set out to ensure that if you had enough items to get a specific gear piece or gear set, the conversion would be do its best to retain that purchasing power in the new system. Keep in mind that the way you obtain MACO/HONOR/OMEGA sets is going to be different because it will no longer be in a store, and will instead be via projects. So just having a conversion rate would not necessarily help you decide whether to cash out yet or not. The way you obtain dilithium and gear is changing in this system and you'll be able to see most of those changes on Tribble.
Ok, you can not give us a full information about what is converted to which other items. Could you at least guarantee that somebody who keeps a Prototype-Tech in the Bank will get everything he needs to get a Mk XII Set-Item as soon as he unlocks Tier 5 in the Omega Reputation?
I don't speak about giving that person enough ore to refine until he has got the Dilithium it takes to get that Item.
[..]
- The conversion will be different for everyone which is why we aren't posting a chart. When you get your crate, it will tell your character specifically how much Omega Marks, Borg Neural Processors, and Dilithium your items were converted to. If you are worried that the exchange may not be to your liking, then you'll have to make the call whether to spend or not. For the most part we are posting this blog to give you enough time to make that call for yourself.
So it is a non-linear conversion, for example: "You get 8 Omega Marks per EDC for the first 20 EDCs, after that 5 Omega-Marks per EDC"?
If that is the truth, how many of our EDCs/Techs/Salvages may we keep per character without loosing something to the non-linearity?
The Omega-Reputation System might be more predictable then the old one, but turning a "Mission-Reward" (assimilated Console) into some kind of D-Store item, that will cost you about a month of Dilithium Refinement is not correct.
Lowering the rewards for Elite-STF to the same level as the daily-lore question at the academy, is that a joke? I can't laugh about that one... You should think about increasing the rewards, do you want us to do 18 Elite-STFs per day and per character, without the chance to sell a Tech/Salvage for additional Dilithium?
Well, we will get a Elite-Omega-Mark for those STFs, that we can sell, once we hit Tier 5 in the Omega-Reputation...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
How about playing foundry missions?
RP with the fleet/friends?
Flying STF with some online friends because you like chatting with them.
Casually enjoying the game.
Finding some other game with more content?
1) Never was attracted by foundry missions outside of the 3-console clicking ones. From what I've read, they're thin stories boxed in existing old assets with no rewards.
2) Role-Playing what? A lifeless amiba?
3) My virtual friends are a little like me. They will probably not do STFs when season 7 hits.
4) For me, a game implies playing. Like I said, I don't see anything to play with in STO anymore.
5) What does "finding another game" have to do with what will THIS game offer me?
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
1) Never was attracted by foundry missions outside of the 3-console clicking ones. From what I've read, they're thin stories boxed in existing old assets with no rewards.
2) Role-Playing what? A lifeless amiba?
3) My virtual friends are a little like me. They will probably not do STFs when season 7 hits.
4) For me, a game implies playing. Like I said, I don't see anything to play with in STO anymore.
5) What does "finding another game" have to do with what will THIS game offer me?
Regarding your opinion about Foundry. Yes there are some stupid missions out there. But if you take a few moments to read up on the best of them you'll find that the real highlights outshine anything Cryptic has ever done DESPITE only having access to reused assets and no fancy cutscenes.
Lols :D:D Sorry, I can't no other then laugh, with the solution of Cryptic and the reactions upon it.
Lemme be clear, I am watching carefully the new development after Season 7 and will decide then if I kick off this game from my system or not, but how stupid are both parties. Devs are creating a new system to give each a fair change to get what they want, but the gaming community never saw (together with the devs) the most obvious solution.
We have those EDC's, isn't it. Why not drop the drops of rare/very rare tech & prototypes and make everything that's is for the Borg part of the game simply payable with those EDC's.
Example :
Borg Engine/Deflector/Shield = 5 EDC's as it is now
Mark X equipment & weapons (Omega/MACO included) = 20 EDC's a piece
Mark XI equipment & weapons (Omega/MACO included) = 40 EDC's a piece
Mark XII equipment & weapons (Omega/Maco included) = 80 EDC's a piece
Pretty simple, loads wouldn't mind to rerun the STF's over and over again, knowing that they will get what they want, eventually. Plus, less currency forms and a way easier to implement by the devs. Sadly that those devs have looked too far for a solution and the gaming community not farther as their nose.
In addition Fleet Actions will now have better rewards in general
Gold = Purple + 1920 Dilithium
Silver = Purple + 960 Dilithium
Bronze = Blue + 960 Dilithium
All others = Green + 960 Dilithium
Ok, this is good enough, imho it would be better to remove the rewards based on the positions (or dps) because it could create disagreements in a group or fleet, as they said the other users, but...
- Normal STFs now reward 240 Dilithium + Omega Marks
- Elite STFs now reward 480 Dilithium + Omega Marks + Borg Commodity for MKXII Sets
- Fleet Actions now reward 960 Dilithium (1st place Gold gets 2x this = 1920 Dilithium
this? SERIOUSLY? 480dil for an ELITE stf is a very low drop, c'mon! Please, think about THIS point before S7
ps: at this point you can reduce stfs cd to 50%, just to balance... no?
Borg Engine/Deflector/Shield = 5 EDC's as it is now Mark X equipment & weapons (Omega/MACO included) = 20 EDC's a piece Mark XI equipment & weapons (Omega/MACO included) = 40 EDC's a piece Mark XII equipment & weapons (Omega/Maco included) = 80 EDC's a piece
Pretty simple, loads wouldn't mind to rerun the STF's over and over again, knowing that they will get what they want, eventually. Plus, less currency forms and a way easier to implement by the devs. Sadly that those devs have looked too far for a solution and the gaming community not farther as their nose.
o Visuals of the Ground Set will be an entirely new variant of the existing Mk XII MACO Ground Armor
So, what's going to happen with the old visuals? Will my current MK XII set be replaced?
I like the news that my BOFFS now also can show the visuals. Will they need to actually wear the armor (like usually) or do I only have to unlock them as a costume option (like the way it's for the player atm).
o Visuals of the Ground Set will be an entirely new variant of the existing Mk XII MACO Ground Armor
So, what's going to happen with the old visuals? Will my current MK XII set be replaced?
It's a different set with a new costume unlock; Cryptic will not remove the set you already have, neither will they remove the costume you've unlocked.
I like the news that my BOFFS now also can show the visuals. Will they need to actually wear the armor (like usually) or do I only have to unlock them as a costume option (like the way it's for the player atm).
Well, having just come out of yet another infected ground (normal) without an optional, with a team that had a couple of drop outs and then also lack of coordination, it showed that this is the point of the STF model - teaching team work, helping each other out and then trying for it to get the optional and the endgame.
But with the new system, which is yet another grindfest, which is what the majority of the game is turning into - I don't even remember the last time I went on an away mission with my BOFFs now, having to grind grind and grind...it's getting to the point of actually I might even pay to play the new Trek game in 2013.
As fun as pew pew is, it's just not quite Star Trek, this has turned into a grinding war fest really. I wonder what Gene must be thinking...
Comments
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
I'm using the current currencies to earn dilithium, so I won't really have any spare EDCs or techs to be taken into account when the Rep conversion script hits Holodeck, I'll be on absolutely zero reputation. While this is not a big hassle and the reputation system in itself seems to be fun, it does leave a bad taste in my mouth having completed hundreds of elite runs.
How about giving a headstart for those of us with hundreds of runs under our belt? You Cryptic actually have the data of how many stfs the individual player have run. They are called accolades. This is what I'd do :
Starfleet Silver Star / Klingon Defense Force Silver Star (75 runs) accolades should grant the player tier I Omega Rep.
Starfleet Cross / Klingon Defense Force Cross (150 runs) accolades should grant the player tier II rep. I'm being generous, because 150 runs even on normal give you access to one full mkXI set which is currently told to be the tier III rewards.
U.F.P. Medal of Honor / Klingon Empire Medal of Honor (300 runs) accolades should grant the player tier III in Omega Rep. Players with MoH accolades are very likely to have complete mkXII sets, so they technically should be granted at least tier IV, if not tier V, but I can see tier III a good compromise.
If you do plan to continue adding new factions to this system, don't be afraid to give out a handful of players some well earned reputation with only one faction, they will have plenty more to work on as time passes according to you.
OK so the dilithium is another sink, but imho not a problem, with 11 Characters i can theoretically make 88K Dilithium in one day (of course i don't have the time to really do that, but in a weekend and a six pack red bull it should be possible).
My problem rather is the timegating with these Projects again.
I probably could spend the dilithium for all my chars on day 1, then all i would need to do is play a certain amount of STFs to get the Borg Marks, the thing is i will have to wait 2 Months and probably have the marks far sooner than i can even press the buttons.
I can understand why you did that with Starbases, but why slow down personal progress with 40 hour timegates? Or even with dailies?
All you do is keep me out of the game or make me swap characters because there is nothing left to do for me today with my current Character.
Personally i see myself just buying the Fleet Elite gear from the Starbase that is already available to me now instead of grinding every single character up over 2 months to get some half decent gear from STFs.
And once i have that Fleet gear i have no reason to go for STF gear anymore anyway.
But ok whatever, you guys make the game rules, i have no other choice than to play by them and make the best of it.
But really Cryptic, please think about one thing, you keep making NEW systems, for 3 YEARS now.
The Community keeps screaming for CONTENT (and by that we mean STAR TREK STORY MISSIONS), but you keep making Systems and now these silly 10 minute repeatable PvE maps.
Nobody asked for this Reputation System, we asked for an EDC cost for mark 12 Sets, we asked for some item in the system to be Account Bound (Requisitions would have made perfect sense for this) a few new STFs maybe and thats it.
That would have been a logical improvement and delivered what we asked for in far less time, but nope you scratch the whole thing and make a complete new System instead.
One that adds new things people will complain about.
You always do that.
I bet some day when you notice that shooter mode is absolutely unplayable you will just restart there too, instead of doing the 3 or 5 needed fixes to make it playable as it is?
The Problem with that approach is that no System you ever do is really complete and always has these last unfinished 5% hanging in the air... and at some point you will replace it again with another unfinished thing. It's like a never ending cycle.
This is now the 3rd variant of STFs.
You don't keep the Systems you have and fix / polish / improve them over time, you REPLACE them.
That costs time and money and personally i'd rather had seen the invested time this time put in another thing... like a Reputation System for the Foundry, because that one is a REAL broken System and NEEDS replacing ASAP.
The STF System was WORKING and it did so just fine.
And the BS you try to sell us with "chance of getting gear" being a problem for you...
if that was truly the case, then you should have started with getting rid of LockBoxes first.
You can open 1000 LockBoxes and never get the Ship you want, yet you are concerned about players playing STFs and not getting a loot drop?
That doesn't make much sense, does it? I think all you've seen was a System in your game that did not require Dilithium yet, but delivered viable Endgame Gear and needed to be mone(y)tized, and the whiners on the forum were just an opportunity to say "hey you asked for this, look what we made for you".
That makes much more sense, PR wise.
And you know what? THAT IS OK too!
I just don't like to be BSed about stuff.
If that helps you keep the game running then i'm fine with it, but don't tell me that i or anybody else asked for this kind of change.
/rant
Indeed and that doesn't even take into account the other commitments in game a player may have. There is already a fleet dilithium sink and they are adding a doff one as well. It seems nonsensical!
You are indeed correct reducing the supply of dollars does not not mean the new higher valued dollars will not be used to the things all players need, I.e. Doffs and end-game rewards as well as fleets. F2P Players will not be able to take much advantage from the exchange rate if they are pouring 70% of their dilithium into sinks across the game.
This is a misapplication of the intended use of dilithium.
And as yet we have not had any explanation as to why these new dilithium sinks for season 7 are there. Very very disappointing, it does not inspire trust when the central issue is being evaded.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
in short it seems that cryptics right hand aint got a clue what the left hand is doing with some of these changes. as a long term player i'm concerned it's going to be more harmful than good to the games health. how the changes to the doff exchange system is a smart move????... unless i get to pick the new doff(s) myself rather than it be random? all the changes just force me away from using that doff exchange altogether.
There is absolutly no rationale or logic behind the dilithium costs in the doff system that meets with any current explanation by Cryptic.
And yes it is hugely damaging.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Okay now all I need is the cutting array to give the borg a taste of there own medicine.
In all seriousness if this makes it easier to get the MX XII gear I'm up for it as it seems to be virtually impossible to get them at the moment
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Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I think they said many many pages back there will be an announcement about it on friday
When we tested the sys on Tribble pre season6 we told u it wasn't fair. Now development time must go into correcting the issue rather than developing promised content. Are u truthfully listening to our criticism as we test the new sys on tribble?
"The goal of the conversion is to make it fair and equitable for everyone"
We lost out with the conversion of emblems to dilithium.
"Any items converted this way will go into a storage device which cannot be retrieved until the character reaches Tier 5"
No buyables teir 1-4?
"Our calculations show on average a 60% reduction in the number of runs needed to get a full gear set"
This is a calculation based on mk12, mk11 gear (which saw most players content) increases in price, with the investment required to advance and the removal of salvage stf dilithium gains r lower. Furthermore those who painfully did acquire the mk12 set must now return to further grind. Essentially the calculation is narrow and does'nt incorporate a multitude of factors.
"The removal of the Assimilated Module from the existing Borg Space Set has been a balancing move we've been meaning to make for some time now"
There goes my mixed Borg/Reman set bonus. Was PvP considered in the balancing or as always neglected?
"This predictable, regimented progression will allow players that have been playing for months (perhaps even years)"
Uhh Stf sets haven't been out years.. who's writing this lol.
My suggestions for now:
Consolidation of currencies:
[*] We only need EC, GPL, and Dilith, and Fleet/STF Marks
[*] EC for base gear, GPL for Social items like uniform(s) and dilith for the zen and the Fleet/STF marks for obvious reasons, anything more just makes it too complex and back to how it was ala S1.
Resources for Projects:
[*] These need to be dynamic based on number of people in a fleet vs static
[*] Bigger the fleet more needed (less time on completion), Smaller fleet less need (more time for completion)
[*] STF/gear projects you can still keep to marks, but leave the dilith for the gear when you want to convert it to account bound or just unbind it.
For the love of sanity please increase or have the option in the store to increase our daily refine limit cause 8k a day for those that only have 1 toon per faction per account is not even gonna cut it with all the sinks.
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The thing is, with these changes to the Dilthium rewards, you are effectively stating that you are going to cut the worth of our time in game by half!!
Why? Will every single mission in game reward Dilithium on replay when season 7 goes live?
That is the only thing that could possibly make up for what you are about to do, why devalue the worth of your players time, but then increase ways that you have to use Dilithium to get anywhere in game.....
Ok dstahl but you are forgetting the people who simply dont want to do FLEET ACTIONS AT ALL.
what are you doing ? yes you are takeing away the core ELITE stf teams ability to get dilithium and increasing the cost of our gear by 500%
how the hell can you sleep at night knowing what your planning to do against the Elite stf Teams ?
We who farm elite stf should not be penalized it should be encouraged.
WE DESERVE the rewards of 1.100 dilithium per Elite Stf.
What you are telling us is AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA you can now go and do Traelus satelite mission instead of Elite Stf and get more DIlithium! takes you 2 min ! HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA
are you kidding me ?
dstahl me and many others are in a solo fleet. that means we are alone in our fleets we have a channel in wich me share and go do elite stfs.
WE DONT WANT fleet actions. we hate it.
what do we do ? we do elite stfs and want our Dilithium for the effort we put in.
what you are doing is takeing away every single shred of our gameing enjoyment and shove it down the toilette by lowering the reward from 1.100 dilithium to a meager and lowly pitiful excuse of 480.
Which one of your developers said they wanted us to do more fleet actions and lower the rewards from elite stfs Let him come to the forum and say it in our face.
he is attempting to ruin the game for us.
is he working for another company on the side perhaps ?
he must be since he destroys the game 480 dilithium for a elite stf
we are 5 man team players doing elite stfs and ur excuse for the time and effort we do is 480 dilithium wish is same as 2 min traelus mission in some pitiful solo corner of the map ?
thanks for kicking us in the face
When you say "fleet actions", are you talking the old fleet actions (ie, those with the visible first/second/third mechanic), or are you talking "all" fleet actions including the mark-earning fleet alerts / incursion / blockade / 20 man defense / NWS?
And if it's only the former, does the latter get Dilith at the "STF" rates of 240 per "normal" run?
If so, this addresses concern #1 of mine, as that "most" (if not all) "end-game content" will be rewarding players with Dilithium, meaning it is that much closer to being a "true" time-earned currency...
Which then brings up my second concern, this line:
"A casual player should be able to earn all inputs required for the Omega Reputation system within 3 1-hour play sessions per week." (Paraphrase as trying to search out this post might lead to epic fail/frustration, and emphasis mine)
As one of those "casual" players, I play normals only. Don't have the time / fleet / mad solo skills (aka love for tactical in an Escort) etc. to run elites on a regular basis. Many "casual" players feel the same way.
My math: 240 per run * 4 runs/day * 3 sessions/week * 8.6 weeks (60 calendar days) = 24,768. A far cry from the ~80,000 Dilithium I'm hearing is the cost to get to tier 5, nevermind the 30,000 extra to complete that Mk XII set that's driving this whole change...
Heck, even 90 days worth (12.9 weeks) of running the 3 1-hour sessions only equals 37,152 dilithium overall...
And even doubling it to having the players grinding out elites only for this timeframe = not enough to cover the costs...
You see, when you first advertised "reputation = easily attainable inputs", I though that by diverting my 3 hours of STFs/week would cover all my dilithium needs for Omega. Then toss in 3 hours of Rommie content/week and cover Rommie costs. Then, all remaining income can go to the Starbase/new DOff system costs (or, I can take "DOffing income" and apply it to DOffs with the new increases in upgrades/general recruitment, and apply fleet actions to the starbase, etc. etc.) However, it seems that I'm still gonna have to take a month off from spending dilithium anywhere else in the game just to cover the costs of these reputation systems, and that's assuming that I actually max out at 8k Dil daily (which, if I were to only do 240 paying STFs/other activities, means 34 activities/day, cut down some if the DOffs pay well or I do the "campy" 3k B'tran run which eats up 30+ minutes until I get the systems down...)
Makes me a lot less keen on fully levelling my KDF Sci to go with my 2 Fed sci's, or branching out and trying KDF engineer eventually, as getting them into "endgame" is gonna be a pain in the kiester...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
THIS. More Storycontent please!!!
Hopefully you are tricking enough grinders and instant gratifications junkies into buying Dilithium with Zen that you have enough money to get STORY content into season 8 :rolleyes:
The only thing I still somewhat enjoyed in the game was doing ground STFs with a couple of friends BECAUSE I had a (random) chance to get something "interesting" along with a fair amount of dilithium and some crappy loots that could give me a couple of thousands of ECS at a merchant's desk (which still is better than ZERO).
A few weeks back, I bought two character slots to help in the grinding scheme that the starbase is. I leveled them both up but I havent done any episode yet because I'm waiting for the reruns to happen (there is a recuring bug on KDF that prevents us to get the special rewards on reruns when we already did the episodes).
So, up until now, I was enjoying my two new toons because of STFs. When season 7 hits, I will probably stop playing STFs because I am not interested in any of the new reputation marks.
I dont care anymore about fleet events (and I am not alone because, on KDF, queuing for one match makes you wait too long before it starts simply for the lack of other players queuing).
I never cared about Nukara or Defera. I played the Vault event until I got my MK XII purple set on one character. I will not play Vault for the new reputation system.
What will I want to do in this game when season 7 hits? I really can't see it. Can anyone give me a clue?
My biggest problem with S7 is just dilithium. The SB is a giant hole, the embassy will be another giant hole, and the 2 reputation systems and gear costs make the others an impossible task. Not to mention the added costs of dilithium to grind Doffs..for the SB, but don't we need 300% of our daily dil for the SB anyway? The amount of dilithium you current can get for your $ or zen is VERY low, before S6 the average player couldn't easily F2P, now this isn't a problem, it only takes 30-40mins to max out dilithium/day, less for klingons.
In S7 that balance will be pushed out further, you will get nearly no dil for zen, which will force most people to stop trading for dilithium. Even then the people that are F2P will have to shove all their dil into buying way overpriced pieces of equipment for literally months and months, it has the ability to just destroy good sensible economics.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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How about playing foundry missions?
RP with the fleet/friends?
Flying STF with some online friends because you like chatting with them.
Casually enjoying the game.
Finding some other game with more content?
I don't speak about giving that person enough ore to refine until he has got the Dilithium it takes to get that Item.
So it is a non-linear conversion, for example: "You get 8 Omega Marks per EDC for the first 20 EDCs, after that 5 Omega-Marks per EDC"?
If that is the truth, how many of our EDCs/Techs/Salvages may we keep per character without loosing something to the non-linearity?
The Omega-Reputation System might be more predictable then the old one, but turning a "Mission-Reward" (assimilated Console) into some kind of D-Store item, that will cost you about a month of Dilithium Refinement is not correct.
Lowering the rewards for Elite-STF to the same level as the daily-lore question at the academy, is that a joke? I can't laugh about that one... You should think about increasing the rewards, do you want us to do 18 Elite-STFs per day and per character, without the chance to sell a Tech/Salvage for additional Dilithium?
Well, we will get a Elite-Omega-Mark for those STFs, that we can sell, once we hit Tier 5 in the Omega-Reputation...
If Star Trek Online was an Open-Source (GPL) Game, we would have a low-grind fork.
1) Never was attracted by foundry missions outside of the 3-console clicking ones. From what I've read, they're thin stories boxed in existing old assets with no rewards.
2) Role-Playing what? A lifeless amiba?
3) My virtual friends are a little like me. They will probably not do STFs when season 7 hits.
4) For me, a game implies playing. Like I said, I don't see anything to play with in STO anymore.
5) What does "finding another game" have to do with what will THIS game offer me?
Technically it's an octahedron, not a diamond.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
Regarding your opinion about Foundry. Yes there are some stupid missions out there. But if you take a few moments to read up on the best of them you'll find that the real highlights outshine anything Cryptic has ever done DESPITE only having access to reused assets and no fancy cutscenes.
Lemme be clear, I am watching carefully the new development after Season 7 and will decide then if I kick off this game from my system or not, but how stupid are both parties. Devs are creating a new system to give each a fair change to get what they want, but the gaming community never saw (together with the devs) the most obvious solution.
We have those EDC's, isn't it. Why not drop the drops of rare/very rare tech & prototypes and make everything that's is for the Borg part of the game simply payable with those EDC's.
Example :
Borg Engine/Deflector/Shield = 5 EDC's as it is now
Mark X equipment & weapons (Omega/MACO included) = 20 EDC's a piece
Mark XI equipment & weapons (Omega/MACO included) = 40 EDC's a piece
Mark XII equipment & weapons (Omega/Maco included) = 80 EDC's a piece
Pretty simple, loads wouldn't mind to rerun the STF's over and over again, knowing that they will get what they want, eventually. Plus, less currency forms and a way easier to implement by the devs. Sadly that those devs have looked too far for a solution and the gaming community not farther as their nose.
Ok, this is good enough, imho it would be better to remove the rewards based on the positions (or dps) because it could create disagreements in a group or fleet, as they said the other users, but...
this? SERIOUSLY? 480dil for an ELITE stf is a very low drop, c'mon! Please, think about THIS point before S7
ps: at this point you can reduce stfs cd to 50%, just to balance... no?
This made me very upset too... better they up it, and rather reduce the Dili amount you get from Omega Things
So, what's going to happen with the old visuals? Will my current MK XII set be replaced?
I like the news that my BOFFS now also can show the visuals. Will they need to actually wear the armor (like usually) or do I only have to unlock them as a costume option (like the way it's for the player atm).
Adding a way to buy Mk12 gear with EDC is all that the majority of the playerbase ever wanted.
It's a different set with a new costume unlock; Cryptic will not remove the set you already have, neither will they remove the costume you've unlocked.
I can't answer this as I don't know...
But with the new system, which is yet another grindfest, which is what the majority of the game is turning into - I don't even remember the last time I went on an away mission with my BOFFs now, having to grind grind and grind...it's getting to the point of actually I might even pay to play the new Trek game in 2013.
As fun as pew pew is, it's just not quite Star Trek, this has turned into a grinding war fest really. I wonder what Gene must be thinking...