You're entire post is nothing but a personal attack combined with a tantrum. You have a teenage daughter or you are actually someones teenage daughter?
I'd report your post, but it isn't worth it. You don't understand and will never understand no matter how small I make the words.
I guess us "cupcakes" could learn a lot from someone who takes thier video games (yeah, its still a video game) way too seriously such as a video game tough guy "grunt" like you. :rolleyes:
Bye now. I'm done explaining things to you. Hope you have fun at your prom.
I don't see how I attacked you personally and I never referred to myself as a grunt. I was talking generally as RP.. I think you need to reread and re-examine my post. I never spoke about me. *scratches head*
The one that is personally attacking is you... I don't know if you're a space cake or not. I do apologize if you identify as a cake. But you're definitely trolling this thread now. Nothing you've stated is in any way shape or form related or has any relevance to the OP's post.
Do me a favor... do report me and let's see if there are grounds... notice how many posts I have to actually care?
---- Back to TOPIC... AGAIN ----
The naming of this new system is wrong if in fact it allows you to simply run Infected Space Elite over and over again to gain the "Elite" equipment. In RP, how does being a good ship captain make you eligible to go on grunt missions?
This should be called the "Cake System" if it stays that way.
"If you cannot control yourself, you cannot command others." -- Klingon Honor Guard Manual, Pg. 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by boglejam73
Edit: Oh, an nobody but you should care if you have the ground set, either. Thats the big problem with this whole thread - some of the people posting in it are only upset because they are losing thier ability to show off.
Buddy your clueless
Elite Maco gear is a badge of honor to wear
It proves to all what you can do and what you
Have done
Space cupcakes got no right buying what they
Can't earn.... On the ground, cryptic should realize this
And take steps so those looking for a cake walk
Can't wear the costume there not capable of
Earning.
Right now the people wearing Omega Maco and
Honor guard costumes got the right to wear their
Gear
A space pansey only has the right to polish it
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
No, most people on my friends list or in my fleet who don't do grounds is because they think it is too hard, and it is if you don't have gear for elites. Especially if you don't know what to do. Plus, grounds usually take longer than space missions.
This is freeloading because I could easily do more space missions than grounds and get the gear way faster than actually doing grounds. You HAVE to have some good players to do elite grounds, not the same for space.
I worked hard for my ground gear, spent a while getting it with my fleet and then helping my fleet members get theirs, and now anyone can just join up a space pug and get ground gear. Totally defeats the purpose of having to work for it. And grinding isn't working for it if you can have a poor space team and still win.
Just like on any other MMO, you get the elite gear by doing the elite gear bosses/missions/raids/whatever. You have to earn it.
Look, we aren't going to agree on this. Thats not a problem and you at least defend your position without going all forum tough-guy. I respect that.
But you keep arguing it as a learn-to-play issue. It isn't. Any monkey can learn to do anything in this game. Its probably the most simple modern MMO from a game mechanics standpoint most players have ever played. The real test of the STFs isn't how good you are - its how much grind you are willing to do and how many run-thrus it takes for you to get lucky on the drops.
I for one am glad that new people coming up will be able to grind the content they want to grind instead of being forced to grind things they hate.
The other place you come from is the show-off factor. Frankly, I just don't get this argument at all. The fact that someone has a full set of MK XII ground armor isn't impressive or even shows that you are some sort of uber-l33t badass. You migh be, but your armor set doesn't show me that. All it shows me is you had the intestinal fortitude to play a lot of ground maps over and over again. For all I know from looking at your toon, I have no idea if you were a good teammate or just dragged everyone down and needed on every drop while f'ing up the optionals on almost every run.
I've seen gobs of players in full armor who suck at ground. The only conclusion I was able to draw after viewing them in action was that they are either the luckiest prototype-drop players on the planet or they belong to really good and patient fleets.
However you got the armor, and whatever kind of player you are, doesn't matter to anyone other than you. Why anyone cares how anyone else plays the game or what grind they should have to do for a piece of shiny just doesn't make any sense to me.
As someone who has been here since day 1, I think this is by far the best iteration of the STF queues and rewards they have come up with. Well, except for combining dilithium costs in now along with the grind. That is no good, but at least the entire randomness of the proptype drops has been addressed. Now if they could just come up with an effective way to punish the AFKers, I'd be pretty happy.
You got it all wrong. You think it doesn't matter if me or anyone else is a good player or not, but the guys in my fleet and friends list do care. If I was bad I would mess up the team. And there is a learning curve for ground STFs, know where to stand or when/who to shoot, etc. You can't just run through like a monkey would and hope to achieve something.
When I play STFs, if I see you in full optional gear I know you have an idea how to do the mission. So now all these guys without any experience will have the gear, when half of them probably don't know how or don't want to use their abilities (wouldn't be surprised how many of those I've seen). Why should the people who actually try be compared to these guys? Plus I've never seen these AFK players you mention.
And last, I don't know of any other popular MMO that basically hands out gear for not doing something. You can't get raid gear without doing raids. And you don't have two different types of gear in WoW that you do here - space and ground. All the more reason to keep it separate.
Elite Maco gear is a badge of honor to wear
It proves to all what you can do and what you
Have done
No, not really. It shows you have the patience to do the same thing over and over again. Or it shows that your fleet is kind and helps you along. Or it shows you are incredibly lucky. Or it shows you AFKed while others ran missions around you. It may also show you are really good at ground STFs. Or a combination of all of those things. It doesn't prove any of those thou.
its a video game. Quit trying to RP in a forum post and save it for Drozana already. :rolleyes:
I think Starfleet would court martial somebody who went around calling people "cupcakes" or "soft." Well, probably mandatory therapy first.
So I'd have trouble buying that even on Drosana.
I agree with some of the substance of what he's saying. I think there need to be reasons to run ground. There may be. Some projects may use ground loot drops.
But MMOs outside of EvE, EQ, and Warhammer are not meant for the hardcore achiever mentality.
This is a game that's meant for "cupcakes," really, and it's not MEANT to have elite statuses aside from what you pay for and what you cooperate or coordinate for. This isn't really a game for grizzled veterans or elite players.
You might as well complain that Windows Solitaire needs to showcase the brutal oppression of monarchist states and that soft players should be locked in the stockades.
You got it all wrong. You think it doesn't matter if me or anyone else is a good player or not,
It doesn't matter to me if you are good or not. I'm willing to bet it doesn't matter to anyone else in game except for the people you mentioned - your fleet and friends.
If I was bad I would mess up the team. And there is a learning curve for ground STFs, know where to stand or when/who to shoot, etc. You can't just run through like a monkey would and hope to achieve something.
Yes, but you know I am right when I say you can be bad and still get all of the gear. How many times have you had to handhold people thru runs? How many times did you have to be handheld thru runs? And, as I have pointed out, you could do nothing but walk thru the map 15 feet behind four of your totally badass fleetmates and still get proto drops.
Your armor says absolutely nothing to me about whether you are any good at the game or not.
It means something to you because YOU know how you earnd it and you should take pride in that. But nobody but you (and your pals) gives a flip.
And last, I don't know of any other popular MMO that basically hands out gear for not doing something. You can't get raid gear without doing raids. And you don't have two different types of gear in WoW that you do here - space and ground. All the more reason to keep it separate.
No one is getting anything for doing nothing. You are still doing a ton of grinding in the new system. The only difference is you can now do the grind you prefer over the grind you find tiresome. And the newbs will all be doing that grind AND paying dilithium. As fr as ground only rewarding ground/space only space - even during the story missions in STO there are examples where you can pick which type of reward you get at the end of the mission. This just makes the STFs consistant with the lower level story missions and the reward options there.
No, not really. It shows you have the patience to do the same thing over and over again. Or it shows that your fleet is kind and helps you along. Or it shows you are incredibly lucky. Or it shows you AFKed while others ran missions around you. It may also show you are really good at ground STFs. Or a combination of all of those things. It doesn't prove any of those thou.
So the solution to this is to run them over and over again.. or join a fleet that is kind and helps you along. I don't believe in luck so I have nothing to say other than you're out of luck there.
its a video game. Quit trying to RP in a forum post and save it for Drozana already. :rolleyes:
This response is most troubling to be honest in regards to the future of this game. The whole game revolves on story lines and the part we play as participants in this universe.
and you should not take underhanded stabs at the folks that actively RP in Drozana and other stations. That's how they have their fun and there is no reason why they should be singled out.
"If you cannot control yourself, you cannot command others." -- Klingon Honor Guard Manual, Pg. 16
I agree with some of the substance of what he's saying. I think there need to be reasons to run ground. There may be. Some projects may use ground loot drops.
So far, the concern that ground queues might become deserted is really the only legitimate gripe I have heard from the guys who want things to stay space/ground.
I agree that is a concern, but then I think it also points out the fundamental problem with ground STFs - I think most people don't find them to be all that fun. Otherwise, the queues would be popping even if we could choose to do space only or ground only, right?
For me, I find them to be not as fun as space. I also mostly PUG STFs, and ground PUGs are about as brutal to suffer thru as a trip to the dentist.
So far, the concern that ground queues might become deserted is really the only legitimate gripe I have heard from the guys who want things to stay space/ground.
I agree that is a concern, but then I think it also points out the fundamental problem with ground STFs - I think most people don't find them to be all that fun. Otherwise, the queues would be popping even if we could choose to do space only or ground only, right?
For me, I find them to be not as fun as space. I also mostly PUG STFs, and ground PUGs are about as brutal to suffer thru as a trip to the dentist.
If projects require things like the ground hypos, it could be a choice between playing ground, having a friend who does, or paying high exchange prices for ground drops.
That's fair. Nobody has to do ground but do it more and you'll be rich.
If projects require things like the ground hypos, it could be a choice between playing ground, having a friend who does, or paying high exchange prices for ground drops.
That's fair. Nobody has to do ground but do it more and you'll be rich.
Yeah, or if the ground queues dry up because of theses changes, they can always increase the dilithium reward a tad more than the space STFs to create more of an incentive.
I think a lot of the guys who are complaining about ground STFs no longer being strictly tied to ground rewards weren't around for the initial wave of forum complaints when the STFs were split into seperate ground/space missions and the rewards were tied to them in the current manner. If they were, they'd realize these proposed changes are one of the rare instances where Cryptic is actually implementing user feedback. Late, but better than never.
If cryptic pushes thru this change allowing
Elite armor costumes to be purchased with
( cheep ) earned space points
Elite armor will be meaningless it will have no value
Running ground missions will be equally meaningless
There harder take longer and require a team
The teams will cease to exist, the socialization
Created by these teams will suffer, it's like cryptic
Is undermining the group play hurting the entire
Reason behind having fleets and starbases
Looks like it's going to become a SOLO game
Solo games don't require a online connection
More things like ground and the elite costumes
Needs to be brought into the game to give us
A reason to play
This move of season 7 is a bad move it will hurt
The game I'n the long run and cost the company
Money. Why have a online/solo game where I can solo
All of the content myself
Poor poor planning this has not been thought out
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Well, now that we can grind space for ground rewards.
Can we get the full STF experience back as well. Space+ground in one mission like in the old days. It would give us back the story they STFs lost in the revamp, plus since you have to do space and ground no one can complain anymore that you only do space to buy ground rewards.
Well, now that we can grind space for ground rewards.
Can we get the full STF experience back as well. Space+ground in one mission like in the old days. It would give us back the story they STFs lost in the revamp, plus since you have to do space and ground no one can complain anymore that you only do space to buy ground rewards.
That there.. I would welcome.. great suggestion.
But that unfortunately will open a whole new bottle of whine.
"If you cannot control yourself, you cannot command others." -- Klingon Honor Guard Manual, Pg. 16
Well, now that we can grind space for ground rewards.
Can we get the full STF experience back as well. Space+ground in one mission like in the old days. It would give us back the story they STFs lost in the revamp, plus since you have to do space and ground no one can complain anymore that you only do space to buy ground rewards.
Great idea bring it on!
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I think the reason most people prefer to grind space missions over ground missions for gear (i have myself for the mk 11 omega force gear....more for the looks than the stats, which are still better than what i used before) because ground missions SUCK, cryptic focuses more on space than ground, as you can tell by all the prevalent bugs on ground missions, particularly in the stfs.
hell, If i want to grind space stfs for eds/marks, than that is my choice, i do not want to be forced to do something that most people avoid because it is so buggy....but on the other hand, i miss alot of the story to the stfs....but it sucks when even on NORMAL ground, people just get fed up and leave after playing a ground stf and repeating a process x amount of times....on ONE area.
Heck, just yesterday 2 of my fleet mates and I, along with 2 pugs, were running ISE, it started good, until one guy messed up the cycle and left...by the end of the stf (over an HOUR later) it was just myself and fleeties running it with the last pug being afk until the end of the stf.....and 2 of us got ****y rewards.
however, i wouldn't mind having to run a hadnful of ground missions to get marks for the ground set.....on the fact that we need x amount of omega marks and maybe 3-9 ground marks for a ground set (depending on what mk we are going for) with 9 ground mks being mk 12 (3 for each piece.)
I find this line of replies sadly hilarious. We put a lot of work into the massive list of fixes/changes above, and ya'll are hung up on the ability to skip our content. =p
I always thought we all had the "choice" to run or not the ground missions. I personally did not feel obligated in any way.
Oh we did, I just never remember anyone moaning when Mk11 space and ground gear could be bought with EDC's and salvage that you can get from both space and ground.
All that is happening now is all space and ground gear no matter what the Mk level, is now combined into one store. Great!
The only thing that ever showed how big your epeen is regarding the stf's, was the titles you get for getting all optional etc. Those will still be there.
All that the Elite stf gear shows, is you just happened to be lucky enough on that particular day to get the rare drops required and thats it
The only thing that ever showed how big your epeen is regarding the stf's, was the titles you get for getting all optional etc. Those will still be there.
All that the Elite stf gear shows, is you just happened to be lucky enough on that particular day to get the rare drops required and thats it
Exactly right. People who think others see them pimpin around ESD in the armor and swoon over how l33t they are are just kidding themselves.
All Im saying
1. You should have to do ground missions to buy ground gear.
2. You should have to do space missions to buy space gear.
I agree with this statement.
Most of the players in STO are even more casual than usual. A lot of them are even unable to steer their ship and activate a power at the same time.
So the switch to different space and ground queues was a good decision.
But giving the ground MK XII sets to people who do not deserve it is an affront to the players who aren't that casual or able to learn to press several buttons at the same time.
Like giving the accolade "Veteran" to everyone with enough money.
(I am not a LTS and don't do many ground STF's xD)
Well, now that we can grind space for ground rewards.
Can we get the full STF experience back as well. Space+ground in one mission like in the old days. It would give us back the story they STFs lost in the revamp, plus since you have to do space and ground no one can complain anymore that you only do space to buy ground rewards.
I very much like this idea. Most of the arguments here for these changes are because people don't like to do ground or think it is too difficult. Since when did getting anything good come without doing something you don't like or is tough? Combining both missions again would mean you have to put in extra effort to finish ground, can't just skip through and get the goodies.
I think the reason most people prefer to grind space missions over ground missions for gear (i have myself for the mk 11 omega force gear....more for the looks than the stats, which are still better than what i used before) because ground missions SUCK, cryptic focuses more on space than ground, as you can tell by all the prevalent bugs on ground missions, particularly in the stfs.
hell, If i want to grind space stfs for eds/marks, than that is my choice, i do not want to be forced to do something that most people avoid because it is so buggy....but on the other hand, i miss alot of the story to the stfs....but it sucks when even on NORMAL ground, people just get fed up and leave after playing a ground stf and repeating a process x amount of times....on ONE area.
however, i wouldn't mind having to run a hadnful of ground missions to get marks for the ground set.....on the fact that we need x amount of omega marks and maybe 3-9 ground marks for a ground set (depending on what mk we are going for) with 9 ground mks being mk 12 (3 for each piece.)
I don't mind the current setup of being able to get Mark11 gear with EDC, you can still look good and have good gear without having to hassle through ground missions. But there should still be another tier above that for actually doing the grounds, which is what you propose last. That I can agree with. I never once said I want people to do the same amount of runs that I have done, I just want people to do the missions a few times. It would populate elites with a few more players than if everyone was doing just space, and you would have to do something difficult to get either the helmet or the harder optional accolades.
Plus, I'm sorry but to anyone who says its just a game who cares, caring about how you look is dumb, etc, that is a stupid outlook. If you didn't care about looks or didn't care about the game you would not be playing and you would not be arguing so hard for this change. Mark11 gear is almost as good as Mark12 and fine in every other instance of the game. And I for one do care what I look like in game because I think it is fun earning the best stuff, so why shouldn't I show it off?
I think the reason most people prefer to grind space missions over ground missions for gear (i have myself for the mk 11 omega force gear....more for the looks than the stats, which are still better than what i used before) because ground missions SUCK, cryptic focuses more on space than ground, as you can tell by all the prevalent bugs on ground missions, particularly in the stfs.
i.e. "you stop linking what I dislike right now!"
Also, what bugs?
Ground STFs are fine missions. The problem is as simple as the fact that not many people enjoy STO ground combat in general, thus dislike running ground STFs. And that's fine. As I already said I am all for the idea of allowing players to grind what they want and still be able to get certain rewards. All the "prestige" and "showing off" is unimportant to me and if someone wants to brag about their Mk XII ground set they've got without a slightest idea how ground STFs work it's their right. As is my right to simply ignore them and move along.
The major issue here is that ground STFs are going to be practically dead as a result of this change. This worries me really, as I'm one of those few people who actually enjoy running ground STFs with pre-made teams. They're fun, challening, and need way more teamwork than any of the game's space mission. Sad thing is, they're usually twice as long, and as such will not be ideal for the sole purpose of grinding, which will discourage people from playing them.
If anyone at Cryptic is reading this, please consider adjusting the STFs rewards to reflect the actual amount of time and effort required to complete them. It's fine for players to grind only infected space if they want to, but there should be some incentive to run ground missions as well. I mean, more than just once for the accolades, which are already easy to get.
The major issue here is that ground STFs are going to be practically dead as a result of this change.
Yeah. My suggestion is to make ground STFs pay out more dilithium than space STFs. That would give some incentive to people to queue up still, even if they hate ground STFs.
Yeah. My suggestion is to make ground STFs pay out more dilithium than space STFs. That would give some incentive to people to queue up still, even if they hate ground STFs.
I'm ok with that as a fair compromise. I love to do grounds and if people don't play them...
you have NO Respect for hard work or your just plan jealous either way you keep proving you can troll.
You might want to look in the mirror before you go accusing other people.
So I state it again, you did no hard work to earn the ground or space Mk 12 gear, it was pure chance and luck that you got them.
The titles we were awarded for doing all the optionals etc are the only thing we worked for on the eiltes.
I have done hundreds of elites and have zero problems with the new system, hell I might even one day get to complete my Mk12 sets....
On the one hand, an actual "player reputation" is what you are focused in on - the idea that gear unlocks signify your position in the player pecking order. That could be accomplished with a Title, imho.
But, on the flip side, I do see this from an MMO perspective: it would be like getting gear from two separate raid paths just by doing the one raid type.
As a former hard-core Age of Conan raider (reformed), I would have been furious if they suddenly put Tier 1 drops in the Tier 0 raids (and lets face it, ground is quite a bit more difficult).
I guess I see your point, but then there's the fact that the gear (space) doesn't unlock any new look unless it's actually equipped, while the ground gear actually unlocks a ground costume set. (the basic one is available now just for EDC, which I happily earned all 120 of in space)
If the "look" of space gear was revamped to become a new layer of unlocked "costuming" for our ships, instead of shown/hidden effects from equipped gear, then I'd say there is a good amount of ground to stand on.
As a casual raider now, I leave it to the hardcore types to determine what kind of reward for their efforts they demand. I would rather see the costume/uniform option become a mark of ranking up through either the space or ground pathways, but keep the gear specific to the path you've taken. After all, a Space Elite exclusive player should also be able to stand out. Maybe separating the Mk XII uniform unlocks out between space and ground (as I clearly see at least 2 KHG designs on NPCs - the engraved set of bracers and arm armor vrs the ridged version, plus a spiked version I see only on Naussicans) would be better? PLUS a third uniform variant on the armor pieces reserved for persons who hold both elite unlocks?
So 1 basic uniform for either of the Mk XI set unlock accolades, An advanced design for the completed Space Elite Mk XII unlock Accolade, a vatiant of that advanced design for the completed Ground Elite Mk XII unlock accolade, and a fouth, new, top-level uniform unlock for anyone who has both the advanced space and ground uniforms. Leave the gear locked to the type of STF you run (using your ground vrs space elite marks) Otherwise, as a space-only STFer, I feel left out of the cool uniforms.
Either way, I'm not entirely comfortable with having my next costume unlock rely exclusively on ground missions.
Wampaq@Jnoh, Fleet Leader: ..Bloodbath and Beyond[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]'Iw HaH je Hoch! ALL HOLDINGS FINISHED! - Starbase 5-5-5-5 || Embassy 3-3-3 || Mine 3-3-3 || Spire 3-3-3 A laid back KDF fleet welcoming independent, casual, & part-time players and groups. Roms & alts welcome. Send in-game mail to Wampaq@Jnoh, visit our recruitment thread and FB page for more info.
You might want to look in the mirror before you go accusing other people.
So I state it again, you did no hard work to earn the ground or space Mk 12 gear, it was pure chance and luck that you got them.
The titles we were awarded for doing all the optionals etc are the only thing we worked for on the eiltes.
I have done hundreds of elites and have zero problems with the new system, hell I might even one day get to complete my Mk12 sets....
Maybe I missed something.. how exactly do you know what Blake has or has not done again?
I know I busted my rear running grounds over and over again to get my gear and if we, as a team, did not succeed I don't remember a "spin the wheel" option to leave it all up to luck.
Seriously how can people survive thinking that everything they do is a product of random chance. There is no luck involved in ground STFs and getting the gears. There is no such thing as luck period. Not even random generators have chance results.
I actually second Blake's statement, nothing boglejam has stated has shown anything other than hostile arguments, a disregard for other people's hard work/achievements ingame and a desire to implement a system that rewards the unworthy while arrogantly claiming what others are thinking. Heck he even insulted me and had a "i will report you" tantrum simultaneously when my views were contradictory to his.
Almost seems that you're on that same boat since you know how Blake got his gear, yet we have successfully obtained ours without any voodoo rituals or bribing of the saints. You would submit that you're inability to obtain your MK XII gear is a result of the forces of nature working against you?
We do need to bring back the 4+ hour long missions or implement some system that while stroking one's pride will makes everyone else happy to choose to try out or walk another path. After all, I cannot recall in canon where a good ship captain necessarily equates to a good ground commander, why would it be different in the future?
All this "feel good" and entitlement systems can potentially push hardcore non-silver players out. This space for ground equipment ability removes all incentive and goal from the end game content to many.
And please Cryptic, do not only use the forums and it's participants as a gauge to measure anything in regards to the general population. It's fact that most gamers simply will not sacrifice their game time to post on forums, but will use them as reference.
"If you cannot control yourself, you cannot command others." -- Klingon Honor Guard Manual, Pg. 16
you have NO Respect for hard work or your just plan jealous either way you keep proving you can troll.
Honestly, After hardcore raiding in EQ for 4 years from 1999 to 2003; and then doing hardcore raiding in WoW (during the Vanilla WoW era when the really high end stuff was all 40 man raids, and raid instances like Molten Core took multiple nights of 4+ hour runs to clear; and DON'T get me started on what you need to do for Black Win lair... circa 2005 - 2009)
Nothing in the endgame of STO is "hard work" in MMO terms.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Comments
I don't see how I attacked you personally and I never referred to myself as a grunt. I was talking generally as RP.. I think you need to reread and re-examine my post. I never spoke about me. *scratches head*
The one that is personally attacking is you... I don't know if you're a space cake or not. I do apologize if you identify as a cake. But you're definitely trolling this thread now. Nothing you've stated is in any way shape or form related or has any relevance to the OP's post.
Do me a favor... do report me and let's see if there are grounds... notice how many posts I have to actually care?
---- Back to TOPIC... AGAIN ----
The naming of this new system is wrong if in fact it allows you to simply run Infected Space Elite over and over again to gain the "Elite" equipment. In RP, how does being a good ship captain make you eligible to go on grunt missions?
This should be called the "Cake System" if it stays that way.
Originally Posted by boglejam73
Edit: Oh, an nobody but you should care if you have the ground set, either. Thats the big problem with this whole thread - some of the people posting in it are only upset because they are losing thier ability to show off.
Buddy your clueless
Elite Maco gear is a badge of honor to wear
It proves to all what you can do and what you
Have done
Space cupcakes got no right buying what they
Can't earn.... On the ground, cryptic should realize this
And take steps so those looking for a cake walk
Can't wear the costume there not capable of
Earning.
Right now the people wearing Omega Maco and
Honor guard costumes got the right to wear their
Gear
A space pansey only has the right to polish it
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
You got it all wrong. You think it doesn't matter if me or anyone else is a good player or not, but the guys in my fleet and friends list do care. If I was bad I would mess up the team. And there is a learning curve for ground STFs, know where to stand or when/who to shoot, etc. You can't just run through like a monkey would and hope to achieve something.
When I play STFs, if I see you in full optional gear I know you have an idea how to do the mission. So now all these guys without any experience will have the gear, when half of them probably don't know how or don't want to use their abilities (wouldn't be surprised how many of those I've seen). Why should the people who actually try be compared to these guys? Plus I've never seen these AFK players you mention.
And last, I don't know of any other popular MMO that basically hands out gear for not doing something. You can't get raid gear without doing raids. And you don't have two different types of gear in WoW that you do here - space and ground. All the more reason to keep it separate.
No, not really. It shows you have the patience to do the same thing over and over again. Or it shows that your fleet is kind and helps you along. Or it shows you are incredibly lucky. Or it shows you AFKed while others ran missions around you. It may also show you are really good at ground STFs. Or a combination of all of those things. It doesn't prove any of those thou.
See the above explanation. I'm not trying to say you didn't get yours the legit way, but only you really know. And only you should really care.
its a video game. Quit trying to RP in a forum post and save it for Drozana already. :rolleyes:
I think Starfleet would court martial somebody who went around calling people "cupcakes" or "soft." Well, probably mandatory therapy first.
So I'd have trouble buying that even on Drosana.
I agree with some of the substance of what he's saying. I think there need to be reasons to run ground. There may be. Some projects may use ground loot drops.
But MMOs outside of EvE, EQ, and Warhammer are not meant for the hardcore achiever mentality.
This is a game that's meant for "cupcakes," really, and it's not MEANT to have elite statuses aside from what you pay for and what you cooperate or coordinate for. This isn't really a game for grizzled veterans or elite players.
You might as well complain that Windows Solitaire needs to showcase the brutal oppression of monarchist states and that soft players should be locked in the stockades.
It makes about as much sense.
It doesn't matter to me if you are good or not. I'm willing to bet it doesn't matter to anyone else in game except for the people you mentioned - your fleet and friends.
Yes, but you know I am right when I say you can be bad and still get all of the gear. How many times have you had to handhold people thru runs? How many times did you have to be handheld thru runs? And, as I have pointed out, you could do nothing but walk thru the map 15 feet behind four of your totally badass fleetmates and still get proto drops.
Your armor says absolutely nothing to me about whether you are any good at the game or not.
It means something to you because YOU know how you earnd it and you should take pride in that. But nobody but you (and your pals) gives a flip.
No one is getting anything for doing nothing. You are still doing a ton of grinding in the new system. The only difference is you can now do the grind you prefer over the grind you find tiresome. And the newbs will all be doing that grind AND paying dilithium. As fr as ground only rewarding ground/space only space - even during the story missions in STO there are examples where you can pick which type of reward you get at the end of the mission. This just makes the STFs consistant with the lower level story missions and the reward options there.
So the solution to this is to run them over and over again.. or join a fleet that is kind and helps you along. I don't believe in luck so I have nothing to say other than you're out of luck there.
I thank you for finally seeing this as an illegitimate way of getting the ground gear.
This response is most troubling to be honest in regards to the future of this game. The whole game revolves on story lines and the part we play as participants in this universe.
and you should not take underhanded stabs at the folks that actively RP in Drozana and other stations. That's how they have their fun and there is no reason why they should be singled out.
So far, the concern that ground queues might become deserted is really the only legitimate gripe I have heard from the guys who want things to stay space/ground.
I agree that is a concern, but then I think it also points out the fundamental problem with ground STFs - I think most people don't find them to be all that fun. Otherwise, the queues would be popping even if we could choose to do space only or ground only, right?
For me, I find them to be not as fun as space. I also mostly PUG STFs, and ground PUGs are about as brutal to suffer thru as a trip to the dentist.
If projects require things like the ground hypos, it could be a choice between playing ground, having a friend who does, or paying high exchange prices for ground drops.
That's fair. Nobody has to do ground but do it more and you'll be rich.
Yeah, or if the ground queues dry up because of theses changes, they can always increase the dilithium reward a tad more than the space STFs to create more of an incentive.
I think a lot of the guys who are complaining about ground STFs no longer being strictly tied to ground rewards weren't around for the initial wave of forum complaints when the STFs were split into seperate ground/space missions and the rewards were tied to them in the current manner. If they were, they'd realize these proposed changes are one of the rare instances where Cryptic is actually implementing user feedback. Late, but better than never.
Elite armor costumes to be purchased with
( cheep ) earned space points
Elite armor will be meaningless it will have no value
Running ground missions will be equally meaningless
There harder take longer and require a team
The teams will cease to exist, the socialization
Created by these teams will suffer, it's like cryptic
Is undermining the group play hurting the entire
Reason behind having fleets and starbases
Looks like it's going to become a SOLO game
Solo games don't require a online connection
More things like ground and the elite costumes
Needs to be brought into the game to give us
A reason to play
This move of season 7 is a bad move it will hurt
The game I'n the long run and cost the company
Money. Why have a online/solo game where I can solo
All of the content myself
Poor poor planning this has not been thought out
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Many have worked hard to get the ground accolades and Proto ground gear.
Now Cryptic wants to allow players to earn rewards they have not worked for.
Then they want to call it a reputation system that lies about your efforts.
What until all the Vault Flyers find out their grind for Data Logs is going the same direction.
If you not willing to work for a reward or work at all, you don't have a right to reply here.
If you want to be dishonest to yourself and earn a reward that you have not earned.
Well I feel sorry for you and all less than respectful comments.
You dishonor the elite players and all their hard work and YOU should be disgusted with your self.
Because you will never understand a honest days wage for a honest days work.
If Cryptic does put this linked reward system, it will hurt them as people will not do the ground grinds anymore.
Im not worried if you get the armor either because, I will still have my Elite Accolade costume.
That means if you want one you will have to work on getting optional on the ground.
From what I read some of you guys don't like to work or cannot learn how.
Thats fine will me, but do show all those you see with Elite Costumes Respect.
Because they have worked hard and earned the respect.
Anything you say about someones rewards, hard work, or for a system that takes away is wrong.
So show some respect and be honest with yourselves this is suppose to be game about Star Trek.
Star Trek was always about respect, honor, and being human.
It never hurts to be human and think of others and their hard work
I welcome the change because it gives people a choice rather than forcing people to do content they do not like.
Can we get the full STF experience back as well. Space+ground in one mission like in the old days. It would give us back the story they STFs lost in the revamp, plus since you have to do space and ground no one can complain anymore that you only do space to buy ground rewards.
I always thought we all had the "choice" to run or not the ground missions. I personally did not feel obligated in any way.
That there.. I would welcome.. great suggestion.
But that unfortunately will open a whole new bottle of whine.
Great idea bring it on!
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
hell, If i want to grind space stfs for eds/marks, than that is my choice, i do not want to be forced to do something that most people avoid because it is so buggy....but on the other hand, i miss alot of the story to the stfs....but it sucks when even on NORMAL ground, people just get fed up and leave after playing a ground stf and repeating a process x amount of times....on ONE area.
Heck, just yesterday 2 of my fleet mates and I, along with 2 pugs, were running ISE, it started good, until one guy messed up the cycle and left...by the end of the stf (over an HOUR later) it was just myself and fleeties running it with the last pug being afk until the end of the stf.....and 2 of us got ****y rewards.
however, i wouldn't mind having to run a hadnful of ground missions to get marks for the ground set.....on the fact that we need x amount of omega marks and maybe 3-9 ground marks for a ground set (depending on what mk we are going for) with 9 ground mks being mk 12 (3 for each piece.)
Oh we did, I just never remember anyone moaning when Mk11 space and ground gear could be bought with EDC's and salvage that you can get from both space and ground.
All that is happening now is all space and ground gear no matter what the Mk level, is now combined into one store. Great!
The only thing that ever showed how big your epeen is regarding the stf's, was the titles you get for getting all optional etc. Those will still be there.
All that the Elite stf gear shows, is you just happened to be lucky enough on that particular day to get the rare drops required and thats it
Exactly right. People who think others see them pimpin around ESD in the armor and swoon over how l33t they are are just kidding themselves.
I agree with this statement.
Most of the players in STO are even more casual than usual. A lot of them are even unable to steer their ship and activate a power at the same time.
So the switch to different space and ground queues was a good decision.
But giving the ground MK XII sets to people who do not deserve it is an affront to the players who aren't that casual or able to learn to press several buttons at the same time.
Like giving the accolade "Veteran" to everyone with enough money.
(I am not a LTS and don't do many ground STF's xD)
I very much like this idea. Most of the arguments here for these changes are because people don't like to do ground or think it is too difficult. Since when did getting anything good come without doing something you don't like or is tough? Combining both missions again would mean you have to put in extra effort to finish ground, can't just skip through and get the goodies.
I don't mind the current setup of being able to get Mark11 gear with EDC, you can still look good and have good gear without having to hassle through ground missions. But there should still be another tier above that for actually doing the grounds, which is what you propose last. That I can agree with. I never once said I want people to do the same amount of runs that I have done, I just want people to do the missions a few times. It would populate elites with a few more players than if everyone was doing just space, and you would have to do something difficult to get either the helmet or the harder optional accolades.
Plus, I'm sorry but to anyone who says its just a game who cares, caring about how you look is dumb, etc, that is a stupid outlook. If you didn't care about looks or didn't care about the game you would not be playing and you would not be arguing so hard for this change. Mark11 gear is almost as good as Mark12 and fine in every other instance of the game. And I for one do care what I look like in game because I think it is fun earning the best stuff, so why shouldn't I show it off?
you have NO Respect for hard work or your just plan jealous either way you keep proving you can troll.
Also, what bugs?
Ground STFs are fine missions. The problem is as simple as the fact that not many people enjoy STO ground combat in general, thus dislike running ground STFs. And that's fine. As I already said I am all for the idea of allowing players to grind what they want and still be able to get certain rewards. All the "prestige" and "showing off" is unimportant to me and if someone wants to brag about their Mk XII ground set they've got without a slightest idea how ground STFs work it's their right. As is my right to simply ignore them and move along.
The major issue here is that ground STFs are going to be practically dead as a result of this change. This worries me really, as I'm one of those few people who actually enjoy running ground STFs with pre-made teams. They're fun, challening, and need way more teamwork than any of the game's space mission. Sad thing is, they're usually twice as long, and as such will not be ideal for the sole purpose of grinding, which will discourage people from playing them.
If anyone at Cryptic is reading this, please consider adjusting the STFs rewards to reflect the actual amount of time and effort required to complete them. It's fine for players to grind only infected space if they want to, but there should be some incentive to run ground missions as well. I mean, more than just once for the accolades, which are already easy to get.
Yeah. My suggestion is to make ground STFs pay out more dilithium than space STFs. That would give some incentive to people to queue up still, even if they hate ground STFs.
I'm ok with that as a fair compromise. I love to do grounds and if people don't play them...
You might want to look in the mirror before you go accusing other people.
So I state it again, you did no hard work to earn the ground or space Mk 12 gear, it was pure chance and luck that you got them.
The titles we were awarded for doing all the optionals etc are the only thing we worked for on the eiltes.
I have done hundreds of elites and have zero problems with the new system, hell I might even one day get to complete my Mk12 sets....
Problem is we all to regrind and pay for it now under the umbrella as new content.
Ofc it stands to reason it seems new to you if never had it before
Just doesn't help us other people and don't change the fact is recycled content
I don't know if I agree.
On the one hand, an actual "player reputation" is what you are focused in on - the idea that gear unlocks signify your position in the player pecking order. That could be accomplished with a Title, imho.
But, on the flip side, I do see this from an MMO perspective: it would be like getting gear from two separate raid paths just by doing the one raid type.
As a former hard-core Age of Conan raider (reformed), I would have been furious if they suddenly put Tier 1 drops in the Tier 0 raids (and lets face it, ground is quite a bit more difficult).
I guess I see your point, but then there's the fact that the gear (space) doesn't unlock any new look unless it's actually equipped, while the ground gear actually unlocks a ground costume set. (the basic one is available now just for EDC, which I happily earned all 120 of in space)
If the "look" of space gear was revamped to become a new layer of unlocked "costuming" for our ships, instead of shown/hidden effects from equipped gear, then I'd say there is a good amount of ground to stand on.
As a casual raider now, I leave it to the hardcore types to determine what kind of reward for their efforts they demand. I would rather see the costume/uniform option become a mark of ranking up through either the space or ground pathways, but keep the gear specific to the path you've taken. After all, a Space Elite exclusive player should also be able to stand out. Maybe separating the Mk XII uniform unlocks out between space and ground (as I clearly see at least 2 KHG designs on NPCs - the engraved set of bracers and arm armor vrs the ridged version, plus a spiked version I see only on Naussicans) would be better? PLUS a third uniform variant on the armor pieces reserved for persons who hold both elite unlocks?
So 1 basic uniform for either of the Mk XI set unlock accolades, An advanced design for the completed Space Elite Mk XII unlock Accolade, a vatiant of that advanced design for the completed Ground Elite Mk XII unlock accolade, and a fouth, new, top-level uniform unlock for anyone who has both the advanced space and ground uniforms. Leave the gear locked to the type of STF you run (using your ground vrs space elite marks) Otherwise, as a space-only STFer, I feel left out of the cool uniforms.
Either way, I'm not entirely comfortable with having my next costume unlock rely exclusively on ground missions.
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Maybe I missed something.. how exactly do you know what Blake has or has not done again?
I know I busted my rear running grounds over and over again to get my gear and if we, as a team, did not succeed I don't remember a "spin the wheel" option to leave it all up to luck.
Seriously how can people survive thinking that everything they do is a product of random chance. There is no luck involved in ground STFs and getting the gears. There is no such thing as luck period. Not even random generators have chance results.
I actually second Blake's statement, nothing boglejam has stated has shown anything other than hostile arguments, a disregard for other people's hard work/achievements ingame and a desire to implement a system that rewards the unworthy while arrogantly claiming what others are thinking. Heck he even insulted me and had a "i will report you" tantrum simultaneously when my views were contradictory to his.
Almost seems that you're on that same boat since you know how Blake got his gear, yet we have successfully obtained ours without any voodoo rituals or bribing of the saints. You would submit that you're inability to obtain your MK XII gear is a result of the forces of nature working against you?
We do need to bring back the 4+ hour long missions or implement some system that while stroking one's pride will makes everyone else happy to choose to try out or walk another path. After all, I cannot recall in canon where a good ship captain necessarily equates to a good ground commander, why would it be different in the future?
All this "feel good" and entitlement systems can potentially push hardcore non-silver players out. This space for ground equipment ability removes all incentive and goal from the end game content to many.
And please Cryptic, do not only use the forums and it's participants as a gauge to measure anything in regards to the general population. It's fact that most gamers simply will not sacrifice their game time to post on forums, but will use them as reference.
Honestly, After hardcore raiding in EQ for 4 years from 1999 to 2003; and then doing hardcore raiding in WoW (during the Vanilla WoW era when the really high end stuff was all 40 man raids, and raid instances like Molten Core took multiple nights of 4+ hour runs to clear; and DON'T get me started on what you need to do for Black Win lair... circa 2005 - 2009)
Nothing in the endgame of STO is "hard work" in MMO terms.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."