i am not personally a fan of ground but for the gear you should probably have to run ground. right now on holo you have to run ground missions to get the ground tech drops
Think about it, doesn't give much of a reason to play the other STF's when you can just grind ISE and get every pinnacle reward in the game.
Right. Because its a video game. Why should anyone have to do things they don't find to be enjoyable in a video game? Why should someone who hates ground STFs not have a chance to get a MACO or Omega ground set to use in the other 98% of the ground game that is fun just because they don't want to run (what they consider to be) un-fun ground STFs?
The new system marginalizes the harder STF's, marginlizes the rewards, while offering no new ones in return.
No, the new system simply no longer punishes people for their bad luck on the prototype drops. You act like the only way to get a ground set is to be a skillful uber-l33t badass. I could simply queue up for elite events, sit at spawn, need on every drop, and wait to get lucky on proptype drops. No skill, leetness, or nothing.
The new system does offer new rewards for the optionals, so cheer up - you can still be a unique-and-special-optional-snowflake.
Right. Because its a video game. Why should anyone have to do things they don't find to be enjoyable in a video game? Why should someone who hates ground STFs not have a chance to get a MACO or Omega ground set to use in the other 98% of the ground game that is fun just because they don't want to run (what they consider to be) un-fun ground STFs?
This is a video game - not a job.
No, the new system simply no longer punishes people for their bad luck on the prototype drops. You act like the only way to get a ground set is to be a skillful uber-l33t badass. I could simply queue up for elite events, sit at spawn, need on every drop, and wait to get lucky on proptype drops. No skill, leetness, or nothing.
The new system does offer new rewards for the optionals, so cheer up - you can still be a unique-and-special-optional-snowflake.
I think you miss the point entirely.
This will severely reduce the number of people doing ground missions. It is not healthy for a game to have 50% of it's endgame missions derelict.
Right. Because its a video game. Why should anyone have to do things they don't find to be enjoyable in a video game? Why should someone who hates ground STFs not have a chance to get a MACO or Omega ground set to use in the other 98% of the ground game that is fun just because they don't want to run (what they consider to be) un-fun ground STFs?
This is a video game - not a job.
The rewards in almost all MMO's require a "grind" and forces players to do things they might not normally do. Other STF's run the risk of becoming superfluous because a majority of players will choose the route of what is quick and easy.
The new system does offer new rewards for the optionals, so cheer up - you can still be a unique-and-special-optional-snowflake.
You can name call all you want, but unique rewards are what keeps allot of players playing. When the rewards become easily accessible to everyone they are no longer rewards.
That's my opinion, it's okay if you disagree. No need to troll.
We all know it's ISE, followed by CSE and KASE. All space missions... the truth is people will simply not bother with ground, well except us few who enjoy them. Most people try to avoid ground anyway they can as it is already.
I think what we will see is no one really doing grounds anymore.
all stfs are about the same.. they all have 15 minute timers and you can complete even the ground ones in time to get the optional
ive done kage with like 3min left on the clock and cge in like 10 min from start to finish.
whats going to suck is the people who wont pay the 180k dilithium to get good gear and run those stfs in junk regular exchange gear..
[12:35] Vessel Two of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 225232 (271723) Plasma Damage to you with Plasma Lance.
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
I am not seeing anything in the new system that stops you from doing ground if you really enjoy it, but you would have people that don't, come along anyways?
Enjoy ground, it will still be there....
This will severely reduce the number of people doing ground missions. It is not healthy for a game to have 50% of it's endgame missions derelict.
I see your point, but how about this for a counterpoint.....
Why will it severly reduce the number of people doing ground missions?
My guess is because (other than the two guys who posted they prefer ground - masochists! ) most of the players don't find them to be all that fun and/or hate that they can pull off the perfect run 100 times and still not actually get a rare prototype drop.
I play a video game to have fun and I appreciate a system that lets me aquire loot playing the game in a manner that is fun for me and takes out the completely stupid random prototype drops.
Think about that for a minute - before I was having to do missions that I found tedious and not fun and could do them upwards of a hundred times and not score one piece of MACO mk XII. And thats the system you prefer?
I see your point, but how about this for a counterpoint.....
Why will it severly reduce the number of people doing ground missions?
My guess is because (other than the two guys who posted they prefer ground - masochists! ) most of the players don't find them to be all that fun and/or hate that they can pull off the perfect run 100 times and still not actually get a rare prototype drop.
I play a video game to have fun and I appreciate a system that lets me aquire loot playing the game in a manner that is fun for me and takes out the completely stupid random prototype drops.
Think about that for a minute - before I was having to do missions that I found tedious and not fun and could do them upwards of a hundred times and not score one piece of MACO mk XII. And thats the system you prefer?
No thanks.
Ground has stabbity death! I like Stabbity death! Hacking Borg to bits with a batleth is LOTS of fun!
Honestly, Space STFs are somewhat easier simply because they don't have adaptation. If Borg ships could adapt you'd see a definate shift in how many people thought space was better.
But yeah.... relying on random drops to maybe, possibly get what I want? No thanks.
The rewards in almost all MMO's require a "grind" and forces players to do things they might not normally do. Other STF's run the risk of becoming superfluous because a majority of players will choose the route of what is quick and easy.
The player still has to grind. The only difference is they can do the grind they prefer (ground or space or some of both) instead of one or the other.
And now there is a definite outcome versus grinding with no hope other than lady luck smiling down upon you.
Equating one problem to another does not nullify my original concerns.
And I am not trying to say you don't have a point. I just think a lot of people are hung up on the "look at me!" aspect of the ground sets and that is coloring their opinion on what is, objectively, a much improved system for the majority of the playerbase.
You can name call all you want, but unique rewards are what keeps allot of players playing. When the rewards become easily accessible to everyone they are no longer rewards.
If you feel hurt because of my joke, sorry. The rewards are still unique, they still require a grind. The only difference is that players can now do their preferred grind and they don't have to hope they will eventually get the prototype gods to take pity on them.
And I still don't understand how anyone can really get upset about these rewards being "earned" in this manner when I already pointed out anyone can AFK thru enough elite STFs to get the full set without doing anything at all.
I think this new system will actually IMPROVE ground STFs as only people who want to play them, will play them. People who want to "cheat" with this new system will not be a burden on other players for the sake of a drop and those that have played countless STFs can actually get the gear they deserve without having to rely on the pathetically low drop rate.
These two issues are (mainly) what put me off running ground STFs which is a shame as I find them more enjoyable and engaging than the rather dull space missions.
Ground has stabbity death! I like Stabbity death! Hacking Borg to bits with a batleth is LOTS of fun!
Honestly, Space STFs are somewhat easier simply because they don't have adaptation. If Borg ships could adapt you'd see a definate shift in how many people thought space was better.
But yeah.... relying on random drops to maybe, possibly get what I want? No thanks.
Lol, I did 189 IGE's to get my first Ultra-rare PSG, and I've heard that is actually quite quick!
I agree and I think most who play STF's agree that the random drop thing is a joke, it's a luckers paradise that does not reward skill, ability or teamwork.
However whilst I am happy to see this go the way of the dodo... I think that not making unique marks for ground and space will effectively make the ground game defunct which is a shame because they are actually quite fun when you get a good team going.
I also worry that the less ground mission that get played the less they will spend any time actively developing that part of the game.
The player still has to grind. The only difference is they can do the grind they prefer (ground or space or some of both) instead of one or the other.
And now there is a definite outcome versus grinding with no hope other than lady luck smiling down upon you.
And I am not trying to say you don't have a point. I just think a lot of people are hung up on the "look at me!" aspect of the ground sets and that is coloring their opinion on what is, objectively, a much improved system for the majority of the playerbase.
If you feel hurt because of my joke, sorry. The rewards are still unique, they still require a grind. The only difference is that players can now do their preferred grind and they don't have to hope they will eventually get the prototype gods to take pity on them.
And I still don't understand how anyone can really get upset about these rewards being "earned" in this manner when I already pointed out anyone can AFK thru enough elite STFs to get the full set without doing anything at all.
Not trolling, just countering what I consider to be a flawed argument based on faulty premises.
Sure but stabbity death is discouraged by Infected trigger points and boss design, Cure boss design, etc. only great place for stabbity death is Cure node defense and The Queen.
And the upside is that if ground is underplayed, Cryptic will need to address it to maximize their content dollar.
Sure but stabbity death is discouraged by Infected trigger points and boss design, Cure boss design, etc. only great place for stabbity death is Cure node defense and The Queen.
And the upside is that if ground is underplayed, Cryptic will need to address it to maximize their content dollar.
Hehe are you kidding, the best way to kill Armek is as a Sci/Medic slashing him to bits, lots of fun
also... they might just not bother to develop anything for ground if there is no demand.
Hehe are you kidding, the best way to kill Armek is as a Sci/Medic slashing him to bits, lots of fun
also... they might just not bother to develop anything for ground if there is no demand.
Which brings me back to my original question for you - why is there no demand? And if the answer is what I suspect it is (most players find the ground STFs to be tedious and not fun) why is making the reluctant player play it (and drag down the people who actually want to play it) a good idea?
I'm just not seeing how this new proposed system isn't a 1000% improvement over what we currently have.
Except for the addition of dilithium to the set piece costs.
That and the dilithium price jack on the doff grinder/doff recruiting really have me bummed about almost all of season 7.
Which brings me back to my original question for you - why is there no demand? And if the answer is what I suspect it is (most players find the ground STFs to be tedious and not fun) why is making the reluctant player play it (and drag down the people who actually want to play it) a good idea?
I'm just not seeing how this new proposed system isn't a 1000% improvement over what we currently have.
Except for the addition of dilithium to the set piece costs.
That and the dilithium price jack on the doff grinder/doff recruiting really have me bummed about almost all of season 7.
I don't think that is just because they don't like the ground format, I think if the space missions were as long, people would probably mix it up more.
As for the rest I agree... and I hate this change to the grinder I've been sacrificing goats to the gaming god to strike down whoever had that "bright" idea.
\
I also worry that the less ground mission that get played the less they will spend any time actively developing that part of the game.
Yeah,I see your point as the SPACE part of "Into The Hive" blows the ground part away...oh, wait...;)
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Ground has stabbity death! I like Stabbity death! Hacking Borg to bits with a batleth is LOTS of fun!
Honestly, Space STFs are somewhat easier simply because they don't have adaptation. If Borg ships could adapt you'd see a definate shift in how many people thought space was better.
But yeah.... relying on random drops to maybe, possibly get what I want? No thanks.
I have wondered - why the borg ships never forced you to rotate weapons frequency??
Perhaps they need to modify the borg space missions to be more canon.
First off... Since when is an RPG a "video game"?.. Pacman.. that's a video game... Galaga, Missile Command, Super Mario Bros... these are "Video Games". If RPGs are in fact video games, then hell.. I've been playing "Video Games" since they were laid out on tables and required a handful of dice and an imaginative brain to set the fields up. These RPGs just happen to be digital now guys.. seriously. Who compares AD&D to Space Invaders?
RPG's typically require some level of grind, achievement, and test of skills (both personal and char-based)... I ran Infected Ground 78 times to get a PSG, and loved each run.. Ran Khit 48 times to get my armor.. each was rewarding in it's own way... ran Cure once . At the end tho, there was a sense of accomplishment and pride that I had succeeded in this venture and obtained my first MK XII set.
I don't personally like space missions because they are "simple" in comparison to ground missions. Where's the challenge or test of skill in mad-tapping your space bars like crazed apes and the only challenge is deciding to turn left or right? I don't consider myself any more capable than the next guy. I just am not lazy and do consider work, challenging and a worthy challenge, work.
There is no comparison in terms of challenge, and Cryptic really expects people with pride in their accomplishments to happily sit by and enjoy their product while spacebar mad-tapping apes potentially get an easier ride now?
Damn right I wear my Omega/MACO MK XII, with pride.. because I put the work and time I needed to in order to get it. There is a REPUTATION attached to both these armor sets which differs from person to person, but it exists none the less. To the rook's, it can mean a goal to accomplish. To the haters it can envoke envy.
If anyone thinks that pride is "Elitist" or snobbish or pointless, evaluate your own accomplishments and see how it would feel to get them stripped from you.
----
And yea.. I mispelled some things intentionally.. If you understood it and still felt the need to correct it then you're as dumb as I am.
"If you cannot control yourself, you cannot command others." -- Klingon Honor Guard Manual, Pg. 16
I agree that ground missions are much harder
And require more skill and time to complete
Verses space.
Too allow someone to buy ground elite gear
Without ever doing a ground mission is cryptics
Attempt to give the baby a bottle that don't have
What it takes to earn that armor
I would ask cryptic sure let them have the gear
But not the costume, they haven't earned the right
To wear it
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I agree that ground missions are much harder
And require more skill and time to complete
Verses space.
Too allow someone to buy ground elite gear
Without ever doing a ground mission is cryptics
Attempt to give the baby a bottle that don't have
What it takes to earn that armor
I would ask cryptic sure let them have the gear
But not the costume, they haven't earned the right
To wear it
Great idea Jellico... man I'm voting you for President
Let them have the equipment.. and make the visuals Accolade based. This way the entitled can get the toys given to them and those deserving can "wear" it.
"If you cannot control yourself, you cannot command others." -- Klingon Honor Guard Manual, Pg. 16
Sure but stabbity death is discouraged by Infected trigger points and boss design, Cure boss design, etc. only great place for stabbity death is Cure node defense and The Queen.
And the upside is that if ground is underplayed, Cryptic will need to address it to maximize their content dollar.
enh.... you can weapon swap for certain STFs. some need a sniper rifle, but not all of them. As the saying goes.... Adapt and overcome. In Cure ground, I massacre those dorks with melee. Armek is a bit of an issue, but the rest of it is a cakewalk to melee.
Space side you don't need to worry quite as much about what you're using. You don't need to take into consideration what the situation is, you just blow up Borg ships and collect your reward.
Borg have never used shields atall in space goingby canon. Instead,they have heavy hull regen.
Borg space shields are an invention of STO.
that's debatable.... the first episode had some sort of mention of a strange energy field that surrounded the ship and protected it from attacks. In Voy, there are explicit mentions of Borg ship shielding.
that's debatable.... the first episode had some sort of mention of a strange energy field that surrounded the ship and protected it from attacks. In Voy, there are explicit mentions of Borg ship shielding.
I remember 7of9 adapting voyagers shielding to
Borg specs bit still I can't remember seeing
A Borg ship with shields
With the exception of the Borg ship on enterprise
But it was not a true borg ship either
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Comments
i am not personally a fan of ground but for the gear you should probably have to run ground. right now on holo you have to run ground missions to get the ground tech drops
Yes.
Right. Because its a video game. Why should anyone have to do things they don't find to be enjoyable in a video game? Why should someone who hates ground STFs not have a chance to get a MACO or Omega ground set to use in the other 98% of the ground game that is fun just because they don't want to run (what they consider to be) un-fun ground STFs?
This is a video game - not a job.
No, the new system simply no longer punishes people for their bad luck on the prototype drops. You act like the only way to get a ground set is to be a skillful uber-l33t badass. I could simply queue up for elite events, sit at spawn, need on every drop, and wait to get lucky on proptype drops. No skill, leetness, or nothing.
The new system does offer new rewards for the optionals, so cheer up - you can still be a unique-and-special-optional-snowflake.
I think you miss the point entirely.
This will severely reduce the number of people doing ground missions. It is not healthy for a game to have 50% of it's endgame missions derelict.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Do Ground missions to get ground gear.
Do Space missions to get space gear.
IF NOT THEN LETS HAVE A NEW SYSTEM
We can all ask for a new system that gives us all the best gear and equipment in the game.
We can get rid of the Exchange the need for EC and people complaining they dont have this or that.
Then everyone can feel good about what they have even though they never really earned or grinded for it, but got it anyway.
But no one would vote for that system, but its ok to get STF Ground or Space gear even if you never did one or the other.
The rewards in almost all MMO's require a "grind" and forces players to do things they might not normally do. Other STF's run the risk of becoming superfluous because a majority of players will choose the route of what is quick and easy.
Equating one problem to another does not nullify my original concerns.
You can name call all you want, but unique rewards are what keeps allot of players playing. When the rewards become easily accessible to everyone they are no longer rewards.
That's my opinion, it's okay if you disagree. No need to troll.
all stfs are about the same.. they all have 15 minute timers and you can complete even the ground ones in time to get the optional
ive done kage with like 3min left on the clock and cge in like 10 min from start to finish.
whats going to suck is the people who wont pay the 180k dilithium to get good gear and run those stfs in junk regular exchange gear..
[12:44] Vessel One of Two Unimatrix 01 deals 1019527 (1157678) Kinetic Damage to you with Plasma Energy Bolt Explosion.
My character Tsin'xing
And me. Much more fun than point at the target and smash the spacebar and fire of some fancy keybind.:D
Enjoy ground, it will still be there....
I see your point, but how about this for a counterpoint.....
Why will it severly reduce the number of people doing ground missions?
My guess is because (other than the two guys who posted they prefer ground - masochists!
I play a video game to have fun and I appreciate a system that lets me aquire loot playing the game in a manner that is fun for me and takes out the completely stupid random prototype drops.
Think about that for a minute - before I was having to do missions that I found tedious and not fun and could do them upwards of a hundred times and not score one piece of MACO mk XII. And thats the system you prefer?
No thanks.
Honestly, Space STFs are somewhat easier simply because they don't have adaptation. If Borg ships could adapt you'd see a definate shift in how many people thought space was better.
But yeah.... relying on random drops to maybe, possibly get what I want? No thanks.
My character Tsin'xing
The player still has to grind. The only difference is they can do the grind they prefer (ground or space or some of both) instead of one or the other.
And now there is a definite outcome versus grinding with no hope other than lady luck smiling down upon you.
And I am not trying to say you don't have a point. I just think a lot of people are hung up on the "look at me!" aspect of the ground sets and that is coloring their opinion on what is, objectively, a much improved system for the majority of the playerbase.
If you feel hurt because of my joke, sorry. The rewards are still unique, they still require a grind. The only difference is that players can now do their preferred grind and they don't have to hope they will eventually get the prototype gods to take pity on them.
And I still don't understand how anyone can really get upset about these rewards being "earned" in this manner when I already pointed out anyone can AFK thru enough elite STFs to get the full set without doing anything at all.
Not trolling, just countering what I consider to be a flawed argument based on faulty premises.
I think this new system will actually IMPROVE ground STFs as only people who want to play them, will play them. People who want to "cheat" with this new system will not be a burden on other players for the sake of a drop and those that have played countless STFs can actually get the gear they deserve without having to rely on the pathetically low drop rate.
These two issues are (mainly) what put me off running ground STFs which is a shame as I find them more enjoyable and engaging than the rather dull space missions.
Lol, I did 189 IGE's to get my first Ultra-rare PSG, and I've heard that is actually quite quick!
I agree and I think most who play STF's agree that the random drop thing is a joke, it's a luckers paradise that does not reward skill, ability or teamwork.
However whilst I am happy to see this go the way of the dodo... I think that not making unique marks for ground and space will effectively make the ground game defunct which is a shame because they are actually quite fun when you get a good team going.
I also worry that the less ground mission that get played the less they will spend any time actively developing that part of the game.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Sure but stabbity death is discouraged by Infected trigger points and boss design, Cure boss design, etc. only great place for stabbity death is Cure node defense and The Queen.
And the upside is that if ground is underplayed, Cryptic will need to address it to maximize their content dollar.
Hehe are you kidding, the best way to kill Armek is as a Sci/Medic slashing him to bits, lots of fun
also... they might just not bother to develop anything for ground if there is no demand.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Which brings me back to my original question for you - why is there no demand? And if the answer is what I suspect it is (most players find the ground STFs to be tedious and not fun) why is making the reluctant player play it (and drag down the people who actually want to play it) a good idea?
I'm just not seeing how this new proposed system isn't a 1000% improvement over what we currently have.
Except for the addition of dilithium to the set piece costs.
That and the dilithium price jack on the doff grinder/doff recruiting really have me bummed about almost all of season 7.
I don't think that is just because they don't like the ground format, I think if the space missions were as long, people would probably mix it up more.
As for the rest I agree... and I hate this change to the grinder I've been sacrificing goats to the gaming god to strike down whoever had that "bright" idea.
#2311#2700#2316#2500
Yeah,I see your point as the SPACE part of "Into The Hive" blows the ground part away...oh, wait...;)
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I have wondered - why the borg ships never forced you to rotate weapons frequency??
Perhaps they need to modify the borg space missions to be more canon.
Perhaps someone needs to talk to Borticus??
RPG's typically require some level of grind, achievement, and test of skills (both personal and char-based)... I ran Infected Ground 78 times to get a PSG, and loved each run.. Ran Khit 48 times to get my armor.. each was rewarding in it's own way... ran Cure once
I don't personally like space missions because they are "simple" in comparison to ground missions. Where's the challenge or test of skill in mad-tapping your space bars like crazed apes and the only challenge is deciding to turn left or right? I don't consider myself any more capable than the next guy. I just am not lazy and do consider work, challenging and a worthy challenge, work.
There is no comparison in terms of challenge, and Cryptic really expects people with pride in their accomplishments to happily sit by and enjoy their product while spacebar mad-tapping apes potentially get an easier ride now?
Damn right I wear my Omega/MACO MK XII, with pride.. because I put the work and time I needed to in order to get it. There is a REPUTATION attached to both these armor sets which differs from person to person, but it exists none the less. To the rook's, it can mean a goal to accomplish. To the haters it can envoke envy.
If anyone thinks that pride is "Elitist" or snobbish or pointless, evaluate your own accomplishments and see how it would feel to get them stripped from you.
----
And yea.. I mispelled some things intentionally.. If you understood it and still felt the need to correct it then you're as dumb as I am.
Borg have never used shields atall in space goingby canon. Instead,they have heavy hull regen.
Borg space shields are an invention of STO.
And require more skill and time to complete
Verses space.
Too allow someone to buy ground elite gear
Without ever doing a ground mission is cryptics
Attempt to give the baby a bottle that don't have
What it takes to earn that armor
I would ask cryptic sure let them have the gear
But not the costume, they haven't earned the right
To wear it
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Great idea Jellico... man I'm voting you for President
Let them have the equipment.. and make the visuals Accolade based. This way the entitled can get the toys given to them and those deserving can "wear" it.
Let ALL ground costumes be unlocked via ground only Accolades.
Space side you don't need to worry quite as much about what you're using. You don't need to take into consideration what the situation is, you just blow up Borg ships and collect your reward.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I remember 7of9 adapting voyagers shielding to
Borg specs bit still I can't remember seeing
A Borg ship with shields
With the exception of the Borg ship on enterprise
But it was not a true borg ship either
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse