The Reputation system has nothing to do with players measuring the worth of fellow players. What your talking about is displaying trophies, and even that is not an effective way to measure skill since any good pre-made can carry a unskilled player through the missions.
The Reputation system has nothing to do with players measuring the worth of fellow players. What your talking about is displaying trophies, and even that is not an effective way to measure skill since any good pre-made can carry a unskilled player through the missions.
True: but at least they knew what the map looked like and
They had to do the missions dozens of times if
They were lucky
Perhaps a lot more than a few dozen mission before
The Mk12 droped and by that time they had earned
The right to wear the armor and even ready to help
Others get there armor
It sure made joining a fleet worthwhile , but now
With the new changes we may even lose that fleet joining perk,
As easy and fast as space missions are you sure
Don't need a fleets help to look uber I'n your elite
Maco armor now huh
Even though you don't even know what the maps
Look like from where you were soposed to get the
Drops from.
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
In Dark Frontier, the Borg Queen discusses with 7 of 9 the best approach to dealing with the weapons used by species 10026. The agreed upon approach to resisting the rotating frequency phaser beams was to Triaxialate the Borg ship's shields.
Presumably, all borg ships have it but it's not mentioned much.
Borg have shields like every other species, but they are not visible.
As much as I agree with some of the OPs concerns, this whole season is going to end up being one giant grind anyway. As such, is there really a difference what mission/STF players are going to grind?
If players want their ground gear, but don't want to grind ground STFs - let them. I'm fine with it. They'll still need the accolades to unlock costume variants anyway, so they'd have to complete them at least once with all the optionals (and that means at least a bit of effort on their part).
And do we really care what someone else decides to show off? Ok, so someone did get his Mk XII ground by doing Infected Space only, so what? He had to wait an hour between each playthrough by grinding the same thing over and over. He'll still get only the basic visual variant to show off, while him actually having better ground gear shouldn't be much of an issue for others to be honest. He earned it, one way or another. Don't forget that this is still a game and people want to have fun in their own way without feeling left out.
Also, after grinding all the STFs during recent months I must say that even now having the whole set does not reflect player's actuall skills. How many times I've played with guys having the whole Mk XII set yet still managing to TRIBBLE things over for the whole team I won't even attempt to count...
In all honesty, the only thing that concerns me is that ground STFs are going to be neglected as a result. Not many people like them (I personally do, because they're the only thing left in the game that can be considered at least somewhat challenging), so now they won't play them, sticking only to space ones. But as I said, it's their choice. The only thing Cryptic should do is increase or adjust the amount of Omega and/or Elite marks rewarded. Considering ground STFs tend to be longer and more difficult than space I believe they should reward more marks as a result. This way players would still be able to get their gear grinding whatever they want, but would be encouraged to play ground missions with a perspective of obtaining appropriate/better rewards.
If RPGs are in fact video games, then hell.. I've been playing "Video Games" since they were laid out on tables and required a handful of dice and an imaginative brain to set the fields up.
Really? You don't understand the difference between a tabletop RPG and a Massive Multiplayer Online game?
Well, if you played the game with dice and paper, it wasn't a video game. If you played it with electricity and a monitor, its a video game. Maybe you are confused because both are games...?
No one in this thread has. But if you are talking about a video game that uses the AD&D rules and Space Invaders, then it would be a valid comparison - both are video games.
RPG's typically require some level of grind, achievement, and test of skills (both personal and char-based)... I ran Infected Ground 78 times to get a PSG, and loved each run.. Ran Khit 48 times to get my armor.. each was rewarding in it's own way... ran Cure once . At the end tho, there was a sense of accomplishment and pride that I had succeeded in this venture and obtained my first MK XII set.
Yay for you getting your set. The problem the proposed changes are addressing is the other guy - the poor schlep - who has run those same numbers of Elite ground runs and gotten exactly zero set prototype drops.
If anyone thinks that pride is "Elitist" or snobbish or pointless, evaluate your own accomplishments and see how it would feel to get them stripped from you.
Nothing you said explains how making people grind maps they don't like is a good idea. Basically, your post was just a long version of I-had-to-do-X, everyone-else-should-too! with some "spacebar-tapping apes" insults thrown in.
Sorry you are bent out of shape that people will get to play the game how they want to play it and still earn mk XII ground gear. I am not bent out of spae in the least by this and think it will make STF grinding a lot more enjoyable for those people coming up who hate ground STFS.
The Reputation system has nothing to do with players measuring the worth of fellow players. What your talking about is displaying trophies, and even that is not an effective way to measure skill since any good pre-made can carry a unskilled player through the missions.
Good point.
Don't forget too that there are plenty of guys running around in MK XII armor sets who did nothing but sit at the initial spawn point, pressed need on every drop, and waited to win the prototype drop lottery, too.
Those who got the drops the legit way know they got it legit and should take pride in that.
If you think wearing the armor makes you look cool in the eyes of the noobs, then it isn't pride that you are concerned with - its showing off.
That is a great idea let anyone have the equipment but not the costume.
Let ALL ground costumes be unlocked via ground only Accolades.
But doesn't this just prove what I am saying?
Doesn't this prove that you aren't complaining because people will get the gear in an easier manner than you had to but are actually complaining because you will no longer be able to show off the costume unlocks as some sort of status symbol?
Seems kind of silly to me to worry about what other people are wearing in a video game.
I'd be more upset (if I was actually upset about any of this) that people aren't going to have to do the mind-numbingly stupid number of ground runs that I had to do.
Doesn't this prove that you aren't complaining because people will get the gear in an easier manner than you had to but are actually complaining because you will no longer be able to show off the costume unlocks as some sort of status symbol?
Seems kind of silly to me to worry about what other people are wearing in a video game.
I'd be more upset (if I was actually upset about any of this) that people aren't going to have to do the mind-numbingly stupid number of ground runs that I had to do.
Actually..... doesn't one of the ground costumes require the accolades as-is?
I read the thread title and I think "Sensationalist much ?"
Personal Opinion :
Quit worrying so much about how other people get their gear, and how other people play and enjoy the game.
Seriously.
If a game you are supposed to be playing ... you know, for FUN, is getting you all wadded up emotionally and making you get angry at how someone else, is playing or got their gear, I suggest taking a deep breath and walking away from the game for awhile.
Maybe come back when just having the ability to pew pew at something is entertaining and , once again ... let me stress again ... FUN.
All this concern over how other people are getting their stuff , the LTS sale and new benefit, the upcoming season 7 changes to gear ... more to come I am sure.
What good does it do you, except to give you a negative emotion to deal with.
Start worrying about yourselves people, geez.
As I said, personal opinion, your mileage may vary.
I know there are people out there for whom this game is SO important that getting all worked up over this seems to make sense to them. Shrug.
I think the best solution is to have ground elite marks and space elite marks for equipment right now. Someone said why make someone do ground that doesn't want to? Nobody is forcing anyone, but if you want ground gear then learn ground.
When I joined our fleet nobody in the fleet did ground, it was a joke in the fleet, space was all that mattered. Now running the fleet we do a lot of ground, people that didn't get ground before are pros, they saw what a good ground team could turn ground into and wanted that. Bad PUG ground is no different than bad PUG space, except in ground you just get stuck and unable to advance, in space you'll lose and it will end.
The reason to make people play ground is that once people get over their ground phobia they do really like it. Our fleet does Nukara and Defera regularly, many members run elite STFs on the ground now. In space its all pew pew, in ground its the interaction of people, the team work and people you meet that make it far superior to space.
Nobody is forcing anyone, but if you want ground gear then learn ground.
First of all - "learn" isn't the issue. I've done tons of ground STFs. I know how to do them. I don't LIKE doing them. Doing them more will not make me like them any more than I currently like them. And why should doing ground missions only reward ground items? There are regular PvE missions that reward ground gear for space success or let you pick ground or space gear at the end of the mission. Why make players play ground if they don't want to?
The reason to make people play ground is that once people get over their ground phobia they do really like it.
See above. It isn't that (some) people "fear" ground. They just don't like ground play as much as space play. Making them do more of something they don't like isn't going to make them like it more.
Sorry, still not seeing an argument that is convincing me the proposed changes aren't a good thing. (and so far, the changes to STFs are the only good thing I am seeing in season 7 - everything else I am either totally not liking or am still on the fence over)
First of all - "learn" isn't the issue. I've done tons of ground STFs. I know how to do them. I don't LIKE doing them. Doing them more will not make me like them any more than I currently like them. And why should doing ground missions only reward ground items? There are regular PvE missions that reward ground gear for space success or let you pick ground or space gear at the end of the mission. Why make players play ground if they don't want to?
See above. It isn't that (some) people "fear" ground. They just don't like ground play as much as space play. Making them do more of something they don't like isn't going to make them like it more.
Sorry, still not seeing an argument that is convincing me the proposed changes aren't a good thing.
If you don't like doing ground STFs, then why would you want the armor? All this does is let people get elite gear that they didn't earn. I'm all for removing the chance prospect, but you should have to be able to complete some ground STFs to have the ability to wear it. Not a whole lot of times completing it, but enough to show you aren't a beginner for ground STFs. I'd hate nothing more than to see guys in MKxii armor that don't even know how to do the missions.
If you don't like doing them then you probably aren't any good at them, sorry, its true. Ground combat is not intuitive, it takes a lot of study to really get it, most people never do.
The reason why the accolades exist only for ground STFs is easy to understand, nobody cares if you have the space sets.
I'd hate nothing more than to see guys in MKxii armor that don't even know how to do the missions.
You already have that. On a good chunk of the ground STF runs I have been on (more on normal, but on elite, too) there have been spawn campers (AFKers, guys who don't help - just grab the goodie bag - need on every item). They aren't just there for the dilithium.
If you don't like doing them then you probably aren't any good at them, sorry, its true. Ground combat is not intuitive, it takes a lot of study to really get it, most people never do.
The reason why the accolades exist only for ground STFs is easy to understand, nobody cares if you have the space sets.
This reply isn't actually responsive to anything I said and seems to exist solely to make you feel special about your ground STF abilities.
Here, have some validation: You ARE special!
Feel better now?
Edit: Oh, an nobody but you should care if you have the ground set, either. Thats the big problem with this whole thread - some of the people posting in it are only upset because they are losing thier ability to show off.
People are talking about the random drops here, and that's not the point in the OP. Random chance will be GONE and it will be good for everyone, period. That's currently the only thing keeping you from getting your shinies -- and I mean Mk XII stuff. (Because spending 120 EDCs on the Mk XI set is NOT anything close. It only lets you wear an incomplete and lame armor. Not something to brag about.)
Random chance or not, the current system has you doing ground missions to get the ground shinies. The proposed system will allow you to run space content to get the ground shinies. And I disagree with that (agreeing with the OP). One of the points being said by many here about ISE being "farmed" extensively to acquire the ground XII set. This will obviously make ground content be less played. The point in playing them will be completing the optionals only, and you all know how hard that is, specially in pugs. That said, in my opinion, Elite Marks should have ground and space versions to promote ground content.
I put a lot more stock into player performance seeing system messages in the No Win Scenario than seeing gear. As far as I can tell it is very hard to carry dead weight in that mission.
Dead weight is really what holds back the sense of achievement some players hunger for. A ground version of No Win Scenario with a cosmetic unlock would solve this problem. Then the best of the best can have their cake and eat it too. Add a cosmetic unlock for beating 9 waves in the space scenario as well.
took me over 4 months to get the tech for mk xii maco engines to finish the set but i had the rest for months , in one way the new system is better but far to much dilithium is needed tbh seeing as you need the omega marks also (as well as the elite marks) . had the mk xii maco armor for months also but never had the tech drops for the other stuff , been trying for that on and off since march
There are plenty of ground missions people do like to play outside of the STFs....
You already have that. On a good chunk of the ground STF runs I have been on (more on normal, but on elite, too) there have been spawn campers (AFKers, guys who don't help - just grab the goodie bag - need on every item). They aren't just there for the dilithium.
So you think people should be rewarded with the elite ground gear just because they can't do ground missions? Like I said, I'm all for getting rid of the chance on drops, but you should still have to do the ground missions. If everyone only does the space and buys the elite gear, it isn't really elite gear anymore. There won't be anything special about it anymore. Anytime I do pugs if I see someone with some stf gear I know they SHOULD know what to do. I earned my gear by playing the ground missions and beating the optionals, so I should be rewarded justly.
If this slides, why not just give all players all the elite gear when they hit 50. Basically the same thing. You don't see me complaining that I don't have elite fleet weapons because I know me and my fleet have to earn it. Freeloading just ruins games.
So you think people should be rewarded with the elite ground gear just because they can't do ground missions?
You keep making it sound as if people CAN'T do the ground missions. Anyone can do them, they aren't all that hard, especially if you have one or two good players to team with. It isn't about can't - it's about want. People who play video games play to have fun, not to be forced to play content they don't enjoy. Any options that game developers give to players that enables players to do the fun parts of the game is a win.
If everyone only does the space and buys the elite gear, it isn't really elite gear anymore.
Its still elite, just instead of running x space runs and x ground runs, the player has to run 2x space. They did the same amount of grind, they just spent the time with the content they preferred, instead of being forced to play content they don't like.
If this slides, why not just give all players all the elite gear when they hit 50. Basically the same thing.
No, that isn't the same thing. That would be skipping the grind completely. And we got our armor before Cryptic added dilithium costs. People getting the ground sets after season 7 have to do the grind AND pay dilithium. So, hey...you won!
You don't see me complaining that I don't have elite fleet weapons because I know me and my fleet have to earn it. Freeloading just ruins games.
It isn't freeloading. Its still the same grind. The only difference is the player gets to choose what maps they do the grind on.
Basically it just sounds like to me that you are upset that people don't have to earn the reward in the exact same manner you had to earn it. Get over it. Things change. You still got your shinies. Quit worrying about how others get their shinies.
You keep making it sound as if people CAN'T do the ground missions. Anyone can do them, they aren't all that hard, especially if you have one or two good players to team with. It isn't about can't - it's about want. People who play video games play to have fun, not to be forced to play content they don't enjoy. Any options that game developers give to players that enables players to do the fun parts of the game is a win.
Its still elite, just instead of running x space runs and x ground runs, the player has to run 2x space. They did the same amount of grind, they just spent the time with the content they preferred, instead of being forced to play content they don't like.
You got your reward. Why does it matter to you if someone else gets to earn their reward by changing the grind pattern? Its still one big grind.
No, that isn't the same thing. That would be skipping the grind completely.
It isn't freeloading. Its still the same grind. The only difference is the player gets to choose what maps they do the grind on.
No, most people on my friends list or in my fleet who don't do grounds is because they think it is too hard, and it is if you don't have gear for elites. Especially if you don't know what to do. Plus, grounds usually take longer than space missions.
This is freeloading because I could easily do more space missions than grounds and get the gear way faster than actually doing grounds. You HAVE to have some good players to do elite grounds, not the same for space.
I worked hard for my ground gear, spent a while getting it with my fleet and then helping my fleet members get theirs, and now anyone can just join up a space pug and get ground gear. Totally defeats the purpose of having to work for it. And grinding isn't working for it if you can have a poor space team and still win.
Just like on any other MMO, you get the elite gear by doing the elite gear bosses/missions/raids/whatever. You have to earn it.
Also, as stated before, I think that taking away the chance % is alright. Sometimes it can take a LONG time to get a low % drop. But as the same with the new Lifetime deal, New people didn't earn those vet rewards, why should they get it? I just recently bought lifetime because it was on sale, not because I want the vet rewards. I didn't earn those and I feel like I shouldn't have them. It just screws the people that put in the time and effort for something.
Personally, as someone with very little interest in Space STFs and a love of Ground STFs, I don't care how people get their sets.
I have 2/3rds of my Omega MK XII Ground set (going through IGE like you wouldn't believe to get my PSG), which I got by sheer luck. Others in my fleet who have been playing elites a lot more frequently than I have have yet to get even one prototype tech drop. If they are rewarded (to an extent - dilithium cost notwithstanding) for their perserverence (which is what the new rep system kind of does) then I'm all for it.
People who do stroll around post-S7 release in Mk XII kit you know have done at least a certain number of STFs, and gone through the grindy Tiers to get it. So, in many ways, they have earned it; they had to grind those Marks didn't they? Are they a fully-rounded STF player? Who knows, but did they have a certain amount of fun and enjoy their grinding process? If the answer to the latter is yes, then it's job done. If not, well, they're big boys and girls and should be able deal with it.
As others have said, you don't get the helmet for any Ground set until you get optionals on all of the Elite STFs. For those who desire bragging rights, that is the one to aim for. For everyone else, they'll play what they enjoy.
Personally, as someone with very little interest in Space STFs and a love of Ground STFs, I don't care how people get their sets.
I have 2/3rds of my Omega MK XII Ground set (going through IGE like you wouldn't believe to get my PSG), which I got by sheer luck. Others in my fleet who have been playing elites a lot more frequently than I have have yet to get even one prototype tech drop. If they are rewarded (to an extent - dilithium cost notwithstanding) for their perserverence (which is what the new rep system kind of does) then I'm all for it.
People who do stroll around post-S7 release in Mk XII kit you know have done at least a certain number of STFs, and gone through the grindy Tiers to get it. So, in many ways, they have earned it; they had to grind those Marks didn't they? Are they a fully-rounded STF player? Who knows, but did they have a certain amount of fun and enjoy their grinding process? If the answer to the latter is yes, then it's job done. If not, well, they're big boys and girls and should be able deal with it.
As others have said, you don't get the helmet for any Ground set until you get optionals on all of the Elite STFs. For those who desire bragging rights, that is the one to aim for. For everyone else, they'll play what they enjoy.
As others have said, you don't get the helmet for any Ground set until you get optionals on all of the Elite STFs. For those who desire bragging rights, that is the one to aim for. For everyone else, they'll play what they enjoy.
Tim
You get a helmet without the optionals. The optionals give you a DIFFERENT helmet, shoulder pieces, and add-on bits.
First off...play STO without a monitor. Hows that working for you? Yeah, its a video game.
That sounds like the arguments my teenage daughter gives me as for why she should stay up on the weekends "remove the school the next day.. not a school night". Not getting into childish debates, facts are facts no matter how subtle the changes. Monitors.. dude I was playing video games before there were "Monitors".
If you don't understand my explanation.. read it again. You're not going to redefine what a video game is by dissecting my post nor do I care to teach you anything to argue about it, that's what parents are for.
If you read it again and still don't understand it.. read it a third time... and again.. and again.. and again...
Edit: Oh, an nobody but you should care if you have the ground set, either. Thats the big problem with this whole thread - some of the people posting in it are only upset because they are losing thier ability to show off.
This should clue you in that not everyone agrees with the "I'm entitled" based space-cupcake defense/explanation of why it's good.
Back on TOPIC
From an RP point of view, If someone wants ground equipment.. they should do ground and prove tey deserve it.. get the "Reputation" for having been in the trenches with the Borg hand to hand or toe to toe... Not hiding behind hulls and consoles like cowards and feed the "I should get ground armor" entitled cupcakes while forgetting those that have already invested their time and put in the effort.. learned the maps... established strategies.. helped rooks in their runs.. and have already gone through the grind.
Nothing wrong with the space cupcakes that get bored when things get tough on the ground.. they should get their space gear and earn cupcake reputations... leave the hard work to the grunts and reward them appropriately, or you will end up losing players and this will start looking more and more like WoW with snot nosed diaper kids in spaceships.
If you can't get your set and are willing to put in the time and effort... then get in a fleet that can help you get yours and be on your merry.
"If you cannot control yourself, you cannot command others." -- Klingon Honor Guard Manual, Pg. 16
That sounds like the arguments my teenage daughter gives me as for why she should stay up on the weekends "remove the school the next day.. not a school night". Not getting into childish debates, facts are facts no matter how subtle the changes. Monitors.. dude I was playing video games before there were "Monitors".
If you don't understand my explanation.. read it again. You're not going to redefine what a video game is by dissecting my post nor do I care to teach you anything to argue about it, that's what parents are for.
If you read it again and still don't understand it.. read it a third time... and again.. and again.. and again...
This should clue you in that not everyone agrees with the "I'm entitled" based space-cupcake defense/explanation of why it's good.
Back on TOPIC
From an RP point of view, If someone wants ground equipment.. they should do ground and prove tey deserve it.. get the "Reputation" for having been in the trenches with the Borg hand to hand or toe to toe... Not hiding behind hulls and consoles like cowards and feed the "I should get ground armor" entitled cupcakes while forgetting those that have already invested their time and put in the effort.. learned the maps... established strategies.. helped rooks in their runs.. and have already gone through the grind.
Nothing wrong with the space cupcakes that get bored when things get tough on the ground.. they should get their space gear and earn cupcake reputations... leave the hard work to the grunts and reward them appropriately, or you will end up losing players and this will start looking more and more like WoW with snot nosed diaper kids in spaceships.
If you can't get your set and are willing to put in the time and effort... then get in a fleet that can help you get yours and be on your merry.
You're entire post is nothing but a personal attack combined with a tantrum. You have a teenage daughter or you are actually someones teenage daughter?
I'd report your post, but it isn't worth it. You don't understand and will never understand no matter how small I make the words.
I guess us "cupcakes" could learn a lot from someone who takes thier video games (yeah, its still a video game) way too seriously such as a video game tough guy "grunt" like you. :rolleyes:
Bye now. I'm done explaining things to you. Hope you have fun at your prom.
You're entire post is nothing but a personal attack combined with a tantrum. You have a teenage daughter or you are actually someones teenage daughter?
I'd report your post, but it isn't worth it. You don't understand and will never understand no matter how small I make the words.
I guess us "cupcakes" could learn a lot from someone who takes thier video games (yeah, its still a video game) way too seriously such as a video game tough guy "grunt" like you. :rolleyes:
Bye now. I'm done explaining things to you. Hope you have fun at your prom.
Wow talk about childish. Whatever is going on with you guys, you need to stop. This is supposed to be a mature forum, not some name calling high school drama. Grow up.
I still don't see any significance in your argument against mine. It just sounds like you (and others who agree) can't finish their set or find ground too hard and want to use this as a means to get their gear. How is that any fair to the guys who actually had to learn how to do ground STF's and had to suffer through public groups or the speed runs when you have your friends on?
When I first started playing and I saw the STF armor, I told myself I wanted to get that so I had to learn how to do it. I learned how to do STF's and now they are easy to me. If you don't take that effort, why should you get that gear? Part of the reason for getting the higher mark sets is the visuals, so you can show off. With these changes, lots more people will be in the elite gear with the visuals, and the guys who got it the right way are just members of the crowd.
I understand you don't like ground or some people think they are too hard, but that's what MarkXI was for. You still could get it with EDC and get some cool costumes, but to really show off or have the best gear you had to make the effort. All I have to do now is grind the super easy space elites and I'm done. Not cool.
Wow talk about childish. Whatever is going on with you guys, you need to stop. This is supposed to be a mature forum, not some name calling high school drama. Grow up.
I still don't see any significance in your argument against mine. It just sounds like you (and others who agree) can't finish their set or find ground too hard and want to use this as a means to get their gear. How is that any fair to the guys who actually had to learn how to do ground STF's and had to suffer through public groups or the speed runs when you have your friends on?
When I first started playing and I saw the STF armor, I told myself I wanted to get that so I had to learn how to do it. I learned how to do STF's and now they are easy to me. If you don't take that effort, why should you get that gear? Part of the reason for getting the higher mark sets is the visuals, so you can show off. With these changes, lots more people will be in the elite gear with the visuals, and the guys who got it the right way are just members of the crowd.
I understand you don't like ground or some people think they are too hard, but that's what MarkXI was for. You still could get it with EDC and get some cool costumes, but to really show off or have the best gear you had to make the effort. All I have to do now is grind the super easy space elites and I'm done. Not cool.
Look, we aren't going to agree on this. Thats not a problem and you at least defend your position without going all forum tough-guy. I respect that.
But you keep arguing it as a learn-to-play issue. It isn't. Any monkey can learn to do anything in this game. Its probably the most simple modern MMO from a game mechanics standpoint most players have ever played. The real test of the STFs isn't how good you are - its how much grind you are willing to do and how many run-thrus it takes for you to get lucky on the drops.
I for one am glad that new people coming up will be able to grind the content they want to grind instead of being forced to grind things they hate.
The other place you come from is the show-off factor. Frankly, I just don't get this argument at all. The fact that someone has a full set of MK XII ground armor isn't impressive or even shows that you are some sort of uber-l33t badass. You migh be, but your armor set doesn't show me that. All it shows me is you had the intestinal fortitude to play a lot of ground maps over and over again. For all I know from looking at your toon, I have no idea if you were a good teammate or just dragged everyone down and needed on every drop while f'ing up the optionals on almost every run.
I've seen gobs of players in full armor who suck at ground. The only conclusion I was able to draw after viewing them in action was that they are either the luckiest prototype-drop players on the planet or they belong to really good and patient fleets.
However you got the armor, and whatever kind of player you are, doesn't matter to anyone other than you. Why anyone cares how anyone else plays the game or what grind they should have to do for a piece of shiny just doesn't make any sense to me.
As someone who has been here since day 1, I think this is by far the best iteration of the STF queues and rewards they have come up with. Well, except for combining dilithium costs in now along with the grind. That is no good, but at least the entire randomness of the proptype drops has been addressed. Now if they could just come up with an effective way to punish the AFKers, I'd be pretty happy.
Comments
True: but at least they knew what the map looked like and
They had to do the missions dozens of times if
They were lucky
Perhaps a lot more than a few dozen mission before
The Mk12 droped and by that time they had earned
The right to wear the armor and even ready to help
Others get there armor
It sure made joining a fleet worthwhile , but now
With the new changes we may even lose that fleet joining perk,
As easy and fast as space missions are you sure
Don't need a fleets help to look uber I'n your elite
Maco armor now huh
Even though you don't even know what the maps
Look like from where you were soposed to get the
Drops from.
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Borg have shields like every other species, but they are not visible.
If players want their ground gear, but don't want to grind ground STFs - let them. I'm fine with it. They'll still need the accolades to unlock costume variants anyway, so they'd have to complete them at least once with all the optionals (and that means at least a bit of effort on their part).
And do we really care what someone else decides to show off? Ok, so someone did get his Mk XII ground by doing Infected Space only, so what? He had to wait an hour between each playthrough by grinding the same thing over and over. He'll still get only the basic visual variant to show off, while him actually having better ground gear shouldn't be much of an issue for others to be honest. He earned it, one way or another. Don't forget that this is still a game and people want to have fun in their own way without feeling left out.
Also, after grinding all the STFs during recent months I must say that even now having the whole set does not reflect player's actuall skills. How many times I've played with guys having the whole Mk XII set yet still managing to TRIBBLE things over for the whole team I won't even attempt to count...
In all honesty, the only thing that concerns me is that ground STFs are going to be neglected as a result. Not many people like them (I personally do, because they're the only thing left in the game that can be considered at least somewhat challenging), so now they won't play them, sticking only to space ones. But as I said, it's their choice. The only thing Cryptic should do is increase or adjust the amount of Omega and/or Elite marks rewarded. Considering ground STFs tend to be longer and more difficult than space I believe they should reward more marks as a result. This way players would still be able to get their gear grinding whatever they want, but would be encouraged to play ground missions with a perspective of obtaining appropriate/better rewards.
First off...play STO without a monitor. Hows that working for you? Yeah, its a video game.
Really? You don't understand the difference between a tabletop RPG and a Massive Multiplayer Online game?
Well, if you played the game with dice and paper, it wasn't a video game. If you played it with electricity and a monitor, its a video game. Maybe you are confused because both are games...?
No one in this thread has. But if you are talking about a video game that uses the AD&D rules and Space Invaders, then it would be a valid comparison - both are video games.
Yay for you getting your set. The problem the proposed changes are addressing is the other guy - the poor schlep - who has run those same numbers of Elite ground runs and gotten exactly zero set prototype drops.
You may be shocked to find out that there are other people who don't personally like ground missions.
Nothing you said explains how making people grind maps they don't like is a good idea. Basically, your post was just a long version of I-had-to-do-X, everyone-else-should-too! with some "spacebar-tapping apes" insults thrown in.
Sorry you are bent out of shape that people will get to play the game how they want to play it and still earn mk XII ground gear. I am not bent out of spae in the least by this and think it will make STF grinding a lot more enjoyable for those people coming up who hate ground STFS.
Good point.
Don't forget too that there are plenty of guys running around in MK XII armor sets who did nothing but sit at the initial spawn point, pressed need on every drop, and waited to win the prototype drop lottery, too.
Those who got the drops the legit way know they got it legit and should take pride in that.
If you think wearing the armor makes you look cool in the eyes of the noobs, then it isn't pride that you are concerned with - its showing off.
But doesn't this just prove what I am saying?
Doesn't this prove that you aren't complaining because people will get the gear in an easier manner than you had to but are actually complaining because you will no longer be able to show off the costume unlocks as some sort of status symbol?
Seems kind of silly to me to worry about what other people are wearing in a video game.
I'd be more upset (if I was actually upset about any of this) that people aren't going to have to do the mind-numbingly stupid number of ground runs that I had to do.
My character Tsin'xing
Personal Opinion :
Quit worrying so much about how other people get their gear, and how other people play and enjoy the game.
Seriously.
If a game you are supposed to be playing ... you know, for FUN, is getting you all wadded up emotionally and making you get angry at how someone else, is playing or got their gear, I suggest taking a deep breath and walking away from the game for awhile.
Maybe come back when just having the ability to pew pew at something is entertaining and , once again ... let me stress again ... FUN.
All this concern over how other people are getting their stuff , the LTS sale and new benefit, the upcoming season 7 changes to gear ... more to come I am sure.
What good does it do you, except to give you a negative emotion to deal with.
Start worrying about yourselves people, geez.
As I said, personal opinion, your mileage may vary.
I know there are people out there for whom this game is SO important that getting all worked up over this seems to make sense to them. Shrug.
Whatever ...
Peace, Love, and Happy Halloween !
When I joined our fleet nobody in the fleet did ground, it was a joke in the fleet, space was all that mattered. Now running the fleet we do a lot of ground, people that didn't get ground before are pros, they saw what a good ground team could turn ground into and wanted that. Bad PUG ground is no different than bad PUG space, except in ground you just get stuck and unable to advance, in space you'll lose and it will end.
The reason to make people play ground is that once people get over their ground phobia they do really like it. Our fleet does Nukara and Defera regularly, many members run elite STFs on the ground now. In space its all pew pew, in ground its the interaction of people, the team work and people you meet that make it far superior to space.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
First of all - "learn" isn't the issue. I've done tons of ground STFs. I know how to do them. I don't LIKE doing them. Doing them more will not make me like them any more than I currently like them. And why should doing ground missions only reward ground items? There are regular PvE missions that reward ground gear for space success or let you pick ground or space gear at the end of the mission. Why make players play ground if they don't want to?
See above. It isn't that (some) people "fear" ground. They just don't like ground play as much as space play. Making them do more of something they don't like isn't going to make them like it more.
Sorry, still not seeing an argument that is convincing me the proposed changes aren't a good thing. (and so far, the changes to STFs are the only good thing I am seeing in season 7 - everything else I am either totally not liking or am still on the fence over)
If you don't like doing ground STFs, then why would you want the armor? All this does is let people get elite gear that they didn't earn. I'm all for removing the chance prospect, but you should have to be able to complete some ground STFs to have the ability to wear it. Not a whole lot of times completing it, but enough to show you aren't a beginner for ground STFs. I'd hate nothing more than to see guys in MKxii armor that don't even know how to do the missions.
The reason why the accolades exist only for ground STFs is easy to understand, nobody cares if you have the space sets.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
There are plenty of ground missions people do like to play outside of the STFs....
You already have that. On a good chunk of the ground STF runs I have been on (more on normal, but on elite, too) there have been spawn campers (AFKers, guys who don't help - just grab the goodie bag - need on every item). They aren't just there for the dilithium.
This reply isn't actually responsive to anything I said and seems to exist solely to make you feel special about your ground STF abilities.
Here, have some validation: You ARE special!
Feel better now?
Edit: Oh, an nobody but you should care if you have the ground set, either. Thats the big problem with this whole thread - some of the people posting in it are only upset because they are losing thier ability to show off.
Random chance or not, the current system has you doing ground missions to get the ground shinies. The proposed system will allow you to run space content to get the ground shinies. And I disagree with that (agreeing with the OP). One of the points being said by many here about ISE being "farmed" extensively to acquire the ground XII set. This will obviously make ground content be less played. The point in playing them will be completing the optionals only, and you all know how hard that is, specially in pugs. That said, in my opinion, Elite Marks should have ground and space versions to promote ground content.
The game will be extremely grind already, no matter if elite marks are space or ground flagged.
STO Screenshot Archive
Dead weight is really what holds back the sense of achievement some players hunger for. A ground version of No Win Scenario with a cosmetic unlock would solve this problem. Then the best of the best can have their cake and eat it too. Add a cosmetic unlock for beating 9 waves in the space scenario as well.
DELTA PRICE RISING
So you think people should be rewarded with the elite ground gear just because they can't do ground missions? Like I said, I'm all for getting rid of the chance on drops, but you should still have to do the ground missions. If everyone only does the space and buys the elite gear, it isn't really elite gear anymore. There won't be anything special about it anymore. Anytime I do pugs if I see someone with some stf gear I know they SHOULD know what to do. I earned my gear by playing the ground missions and beating the optionals, so I should be rewarded justly.
If this slides, why not just give all players all the elite gear when they hit 50. Basically the same thing. You don't see me complaining that I don't have elite fleet weapons because I know me and my fleet have to earn it. Freeloading just ruins games.
You keep making it sound as if people CAN'T do the ground missions. Anyone can do them, they aren't all that hard, especially if you have one or two good players to team with. It isn't about can't - it's about want. People who play video games play to have fun, not to be forced to play content they don't enjoy. Any options that game developers give to players that enables players to do the fun parts of the game is a win.
Its still elite, just instead of running x space runs and x ground runs, the player has to run 2x space. They did the same amount of grind, they just spent the time with the content they preferred, instead of being forced to play content they don't like.
You got your reward. Why does it matter to you if someone else gets to earn their reward by changing the grind pattern? Its still one big grind.
No, that isn't the same thing. That would be skipping the grind completely. And we got our armor before Cryptic added dilithium costs. People getting the ground sets after season 7 have to do the grind AND pay dilithium. So, hey...you won!
It isn't freeloading. Its still the same grind. The only difference is the player gets to choose what maps they do the grind on.
Basically it just sounds like to me that you are upset that people don't have to earn the reward in the exact same manner you had to earn it. Get over it. Things change. You still got your shinies. Quit worrying about how others get their shinies.
No, most people on my friends list or in my fleet who don't do grounds is because they think it is too hard, and it is if you don't have gear for elites. Especially if you don't know what to do. Plus, grounds usually take longer than space missions.
This is freeloading because I could easily do more space missions than grounds and get the gear way faster than actually doing grounds. You HAVE to have some good players to do elite grounds, not the same for space.
I worked hard for my ground gear, spent a while getting it with my fleet and then helping my fleet members get theirs, and now anyone can just join up a space pug and get ground gear. Totally defeats the purpose of having to work for it. And grinding isn't working for it if you can have a poor space team and still win.
Just like on any other MMO, you get the elite gear by doing the elite gear bosses/missions/raids/whatever. You have to earn it.
I have 2/3rds of my Omega MK XII Ground set (going through IGE like you wouldn't believe to get my PSG), which I got by sheer luck. Others in my fleet who have been playing elites a lot more frequently than I have have yet to get even one prototype tech drop. If they are rewarded (to an extent - dilithium cost notwithstanding) for their perserverence (which is what the new rep system kind of does) then I'm all for it.
People who do stroll around post-S7 release in Mk XII kit you know have done at least a certain number of STFs, and gone through the grindy Tiers to get it. So, in many ways, they have earned it; they had to grind those Marks didn't they? Are they a fully-rounded STF player? Who knows, but did they have a certain amount of fun and enjoy their grinding process? If the answer to the latter is yes, then it's job done. If not, well, they're big boys and girls and should be able deal with it.
As others have said, you don't get the helmet for any Ground set until you get optionals on all of the Elite STFs. For those who desire bragging rights, that is the one to aim for. For everyone else, they'll play what they enjoy.
Tim
Tim is wise.
You get a helmet without the optionals. The optionals give you a DIFFERENT helmet, shoulder pieces, and add-on bits.
That sounds like the arguments my teenage daughter gives me as for why she should stay up on the weekends "remove the school the next day.. not a school night". Not getting into childish debates, facts are facts no matter how subtle the changes. Monitors.. dude I was playing video games before there were "Monitors".
If you don't understand my explanation.. read it again. You're not going to redefine what a video game is by dissecting my post nor do I care to teach you anything to argue about it, that's what parents are for.
If you read it again and still don't understand it.. read it a third time... and again.. and again.. and again...
This should clue you in that not everyone agrees with the "I'm entitled" based space-cupcake defense/explanation of why it's good.
Back on TOPIC
From an RP point of view, If someone wants ground equipment.. they should do ground and prove tey deserve it.. get the "Reputation" for having been in the trenches with the Borg hand to hand or toe to toe... Not hiding behind hulls and consoles like cowards and feed the "I should get ground armor" entitled cupcakes while forgetting those that have already invested their time and put in the effort.. learned the maps... established strategies.. helped rooks in their runs.. and have already gone through the grind.
Nothing wrong with the space cupcakes that get bored when things get tough on the ground.. they should get their space gear and earn cupcake reputations... leave the hard work to the grunts and reward them appropriately, or you will end up losing players and this will start looking more and more like WoW with snot nosed diaper kids in spaceships.
If you can't get your set and are willing to put in the time and effort... then get in a fleet that can help you get yours and be on your merry.
You're entire post is nothing but a personal attack combined with a tantrum. You have a teenage daughter or you are actually someones teenage daughter?
I'd report your post, but it isn't worth it. You don't understand and will never understand no matter how small I make the words.
I guess us "cupcakes" could learn a lot from someone who takes thier video games (yeah, its still a video game) way too seriously such as a video game tough guy "grunt" like you. :rolleyes:
Bye now. I'm done explaining things to you. Hope you have fun at your prom.
Wow talk about childish. Whatever is going on with you guys, you need to stop. This is supposed to be a mature forum, not some name calling high school drama. Grow up.
I still don't see any significance in your argument against mine. It just sounds like you (and others who agree) can't finish their set or find ground too hard and want to use this as a means to get their gear. How is that any fair to the guys who actually had to learn how to do ground STF's and had to suffer through public groups or the speed runs when you have your friends on?
When I first started playing and I saw the STF armor, I told myself I wanted to get that so I had to learn how to do it. I learned how to do STF's and now they are easy to me. If you don't take that effort, why should you get that gear? Part of the reason for getting the higher mark sets is the visuals, so you can show off. With these changes, lots more people will be in the elite gear with the visuals, and the guys who got it the right way are just members of the crowd.
I understand you don't like ground or some people think they are too hard, but that's what MarkXI was for. You still could get it with EDC and get some cool costumes, but to really show off or have the best gear you had to make the effort. All I have to do now is grind the super easy space elites and I'm done. Not cool.
Look, we aren't going to agree on this. Thats not a problem and you at least defend your position without going all forum tough-guy. I respect that.
But you keep arguing it as a learn-to-play issue. It isn't. Any monkey can learn to do anything in this game. Its probably the most simple modern MMO from a game mechanics standpoint most players have ever played. The real test of the STFs isn't how good you are - its how much grind you are willing to do and how many run-thrus it takes for you to get lucky on the drops.
I for one am glad that new people coming up will be able to grind the content they want to grind instead of being forced to grind things they hate.
The other place you come from is the show-off factor. Frankly, I just don't get this argument at all. The fact that someone has a full set of MK XII ground armor isn't impressive or even shows that you are some sort of uber-l33t badass. You migh be, but your armor set doesn't show me that. All it shows me is you had the intestinal fortitude to play a lot of ground maps over and over again. For all I know from looking at your toon, I have no idea if you were a good teammate or just dragged everyone down and needed on every drop while f'ing up the optionals on almost every run.
I've seen gobs of players in full armor who suck at ground. The only conclusion I was able to draw after viewing them in action was that they are either the luckiest prototype-drop players on the planet or they belong to really good and patient fleets.
However you got the armor, and whatever kind of player you are, doesn't matter to anyone other than you. Why anyone cares how anyone else plays the game or what grind they should have to do for a piece of shiny just doesn't make any sense to me.
As someone who has been here since day 1, I think this is by far the best iteration of the STF queues and rewards they have come up with. Well, except for combining dilithium costs in now along with the grind. That is no good, but at least the entire randomness of the proptype drops has been addressed. Now if they could just come up with an effective way to punish the AFKers, I'd be pretty happy.