I direct you to Star Trek: Klingon Academy. It IS possible to make good Star Trek games, without focusing on the "almighty Federation" or it's "Human masters".
Cryptic seems to have overlooked this little "gem" of a game. Released in 2000, 12 years later it's STILL being modded (albeit not as active anymore).
Wasn't Klingon Academy seen as a pretty colossal commercial failure, despite being a good game?
Some of what you're saying simply won't fly on the forums.
What I will say is this:
If you have Fed and KDF Romulans, DON'T try to make them a pure substitute or surrogate for a Romulan faction. Please, stop and think about what KIND of Romulans would take each route. Think about how they fit in.
The Fed versions would almost have to be Unificationists.
The KDF version would be glorified slaves. Poor. Hungry, Desperate. Mistrusted. Quite likely disfigured. I threw it out there and it may seem gruesome for a Teen game but I'd probably throw in something like a mandatory shaved head, KDF-emblem face tattoos, and an idea like J'mpok requiring any Romulan who defects to cut off one of their own ears, with some kind of loyalty oath about how the clever need two ears but the obediant need only one.
The Fed version would be practically Vulcan, like T'Pol or Valeris (both intended as half-Romulan).
The KDF version, I think, would have to make Nero look pampered and cosmopolitan by comparison. Because it means selling out or rising up out of Klingon slave pens. And it should almost echo those dark chapters of history where slaves fought for slave holders or oppressed people fought for enemy tyrants against their own. These almost have to be Theta radiation scarred beasts, the worst of the criminals and most desperate of the survivors, Romulans without faith or pride.
to sum it up lap dogs and to me that dont sound like romulans romulans do not trust outsiders or like them this sould be evident from all of star trek movie and show
to sum it up lap dogs and to me that dont sound like romulans romulans do not trust outsiders this sould be evident from all of star trek movie and show
I have a problem with the idea that "races are a certain way" in Star Trek.
Cultures are, maybe.
But a Klingon raised by Ferengi will act like a Ferengi.
And we're talking about a setting where there hasn't BEEN a Romulan Empire for a full generation, where what passed for a Romulan Empire was a few cosplaying Tal'Shiar.
The species is nearly gone. Most have been enslaved or turned into laborers. There are adult Romulans (and they may account for the majority of living Romulans in the galaxy) who have never seen the Empire. They've never served it. They only know it from books and records, provided they have access to those.
The only ones really "living the dream" are a small elite who are working for the Iconians.
Even if Cryptic had the resources, I don't think Romulans should really be all that much like they were pre-Hobus. For that, you'd need a TNG era MMO and this game needs to make some hard breaks with TNG and TOS somewhere. The destruction of Romulus shouldn't be something that gets glossed over. It should redefine Romulans.
That's one of my problems with a Romulan or a Cardassian faction. If it resembles the faction that people who enjoyed them on TNG and DS9 want, it's wrong for the setting.
Great to see you posting and getting involved with the thread, Dan.
I hear what you say, and actually understand what you mean. The levelling on Fed side IS fast compared to the KDF. I don't want faster levelling on the KDF (truthfully, I want less XP per mission on BOTH sides to slow it down so I can enjoy my ship but that's a different matter).
I even understand your reservations about creating a third faction in its own right but I quote your own attitude towards the KDF of "build it and they will come".
On the forums you have Romulan supporters being almost as vocal as the KDF. In game you have players creating their own "alien" Romulans because they have no other option. On this very thread you have players talking about their own Romulan "RP" fleet (I say "RP" because they are having to pretend it's a real Romulan). Then you have players like me.
I want the KDF to have more stories so I can enjoy my favourite race doing that it's supposed to do, not shoehorned into doing what the Federation does.
I also want to spend money on character slots to play a Romulan. I want to play for the RSE as a Romulan or even a "loyal" Reman. I want to play a Vulcan Unificationist on the RSE. I want to play Selay, Hirogen or whatever other race is exclusive to the RSE on ships whose cloaks don't break as easily as the Klingon's. Heck the lower level ships can even be re-skinned Klingon ships for all I care (House of Torg selling old D5 and D7 ships to a broken people? Happened before which is how the Romulans got many ships in the first place). I could even see some House of Torg Klingons on the RSE side (without the traits which make a Klingon honourable of course).
I voted Klingon content because that is where my heart lies. I would be happy to see the RSE because I am a Star Trek fan and a STO gamer and this would be best for the game (maybe not the devs, who would have to work their mivoks off ).
Please, don't shoehorn Romulans and Remans into the remaining factions.
PS Oh and if you are thinking of removing content from the Fed side, please start with the "Bring a Jumja stick to Memory Alpha mission". What? We can build personal shield generators but can't replicate a Jumja stick?
"...we are far more united and have far more in common with each other than the things that divide us.”
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
The Star Trek Universe is so vast that you can never really finish it anyway. But giving people more options is good, as it binds people to the game. People who will buy Romulan C-Store ships, for example.
On content, I think the solution is simple:
The Foundry is full of awesome (truly awesome) Klingon missions. Choose 50 of them, attach appropriate levelling XP rewards to them, and you have a level 1 to 50 KDF faction with a man-week of work.
Likewise, add Level 40-50 Romulans with tier 5 ships and some dailies, open up the Foundry for creating Romulan content, wait a bit, then add 50 Foundry missions as full story missions, add 1 ship per tier, and lower the starting level to 1.
Let the community do the work for you.
Do you think those missions really teach people how to play?
The Fed missions are supposed to.
That's part of why they require the 1-20 Fed content to be played.
They could have unlocked Klingons at level 1. They didn't.
Playing 50 missions doesn't teach you the game and, in theory, the Klingon War front Fed side does.
I have a problem with the idea that "races are a certain way" in Star Trek.
Cultures are, maybe.
But a Klingon raised by Ferengi will act like a Ferengi.
And we're talking about a setting where there hasn't BEEN a Romulan Empire for a full generation, where what passed for a Romulan Empire was a few cosplaying Tal'Shiar.
The species is nearly gone. Most have been enslaved or turned into laborers. There are adult Romulans (and they may account for the majority of living Romulans in the galaxy) who have never seen the Empire. They've never served it. They only know it from books and records, provided they have access to those.
The only ones really "living the dream" are a small elite who are working for the Iconians.
Even if Cryptic had the resources, I don't think Romulans should really be all that much like they were pre-Hobus. For that, you'd need a TNG era MMO and this game needs to make some hard breaks with TNG and TOS somewhere. The destruction of Romulus shouldn't be something that gets glossed over. It should redefine Romulans.
That's one of my problems with a Romulan or a Cardassian faction. If it resembles the faction that people who enjoyed them on TNG and DS9 want, it's wrong for the setting.
to me the romluans are in disarray no more then that only take one thing to unite them again if i can only play i romulan lap dog then they just need to stay out of the game and stay as NPC
I think you're confusing the RSE with High Elves in WoW. The Romulan race is not almost extinct, while losing Romulous was as big a blow to the RSE as losing Earth would be to the Federation it wouldn't mean the extinction of humanity.
Like the Romulan Alliance System? Of course you do, it sounds fine to you because you aren't Romulans, you're FED or KDF who are going to make a Romulan alt, it makes a HUGE difference in perspective.
The Star Trek Universe is so vast that you can never really finish it anyway. But giving people more options is good, as it binds people to the game. People who will buy Romulan C-Store ships, for example.
On content, I think the solution is simple:
The Foundry is full of awesome (truly awesome) Klingon missions. Choose 50 of them, attach appropriate levelling XP rewards to them, and you have a level 1 to 50 KDF faction with a man-week of work.
Likewise, add Level 40-50 Romulans with tier 5 ships and some dailies, open up the Foundry for creating Romulan content, wait a bit, then add 50 Foundry missions as full story missions, add 1 ship per tier, and lower the starting level to 1.
Let the community do the work for you.
this is great ide for KDF and a romulan stand alone
I think you're confusing the RSE with High Elves in WoW. The Romulan race is not almost extinct, while losing Romulous was as big a blow to the RSE as losing Earth would be to the Federation it wouldn't mean the extinction of humanity.
bigo ding ding ding we have a winer think ppl still bying into that supernova that threatens the entire galaxy and think most if not the entier fleet of the RSE got destroyed JJ and that movie .......
I think you're confusing the RSE with High Elves in WoW. The Romulan race is not almost extinct, while losing Romulous was as big a blow to the RSE as losing Earth would be to the Federation it wouldn't mean the extinction of humanity.
Losing Vulcan in Star Trek 2009 left behind only a few thousand Vulcans.
If we're going with Rome (since that's the relevant metaphor for Romulus) then they went from 5 million to around 30,000 during their fall. So that may be a useful percentage. Or it may be helpful to consider that the Roman Empire was 40% urban and highly centralized, much more so than contemporary societies. Given that the United States TODAY is relatively urban (around 80%) and using that as a benchmark for how urban the future of Trek would be, for Romulus to feel Roman, most of the population would have to be on the planet Romulus.
This also matches what we know of Romulus.
Whereas Earth had 9 billion inhabitants, Romulus had 18 billion despite a presumably matched fleet size and number of people in the larger empire. Nearly all of whom were lost in the supernova.
bigo ding ding ding we have a winer think ppl still bying into that supernova that threatens the entire galaxy and think most if not the entier fleet of the RSE got destroyed JJ and that movie .......
This game is based around the aftermath of that supernova. This game explains why the supernova was a threat to the galaxy.
If you don't buy into the supernova, you're rejecting STO's setting to begin with.
I think a Romulan full faction is important. Not as a sub-set of Federation of Klingons, but in its own right.
Let players make Romulan foundry missions before we can create Romulan characters, and integrate the best into the flow.
you know to me the foundry again to me was the Dev way to make a excuse to not make mission as much and it has showing over 2 years but they could take like doing a poll for the say top 5 Dev picked foundry mission the player base votes number one get adopted to Dev mission and i could do with out Voice overs and cute scenes i would more likely play a Dev adopted mission then i will looking for mission in the foundry
let me give you example of why i dont like foundry mission they are like the books to me they are not cannon what the Dev makes or if they took the ide of adopting mission it would be like prime universe cannon to me
This game is based around the aftermath of that supernova. This game explains why the supernova was a threat to the galaxy.
If you don't buy into the supernova, you're rejecting STO's setting to begin with.
hmmmm thot it said in a mission it threatened the system not the galaxy but its been since year one since i played any of the story line mission so i could be off
[...]
When it comes to a Romulan faction, the question still remains, would it be healthy for the game to introduce an entirely new faction that is now in the situation we just worked to solve? More than likely, if we were to add the ability to play as a Romulan, we would want to make it so that they could have their own experience, but ultimately fit somehow into the confines of our two faction game. Whether or not this means Romulans ultimately having to choose between which faction they support or something else entirely, the idea that Romulans would be a 3rd unique faction unto itself is a road STO may not take, if only to ensure the future health of the game.
[...]
There is just one minor thing that will bite you in the back most certainly then. Territorial control pvp just doesn't work right in a two faction game with huge population gaps between the factions. I've been there. I've played more than 5 years on a **** Server with a 2.5A/1M/0.75H relation and that server was considered 'mostly' balanced because most of the time there was some kind of truce between the smaller realms. When some parts of the community switched to warhammer and its two faction game the smaller faction got steamrolled over and over again, with a much smaller advantage of population (1 Chaos/1.2 Order [yes that is correct, I had the 'luck' to play on one of the few servers were order actually had more players]). Same company, mostly the same playerbase, very different outcomes.
Losing Vulcan in Star Trek 2009 left behind only a few thousand Vulcans.
If we're going with Rome (since that's the relevant metaphor for Romulus) then they went from 5 million to around 30,000 during their fall. So that may be a useful percentage. Or it may be helpful to consider that the Roman Empire was 40% urban and highly centralized, much more so than contemporary societies. Given that the United States TODAY is relatively urban (around 80%) and using that as a benchmark for how urban the future of Trek would be, for Romulus to feel Roman, most of the population would have to be on the planet Romulus.
This also matches what we know of Romulus.
Whereas Earth had 9 billion inhabitants, Romulus had 18 billion despite a presumably matched fleet size and number of people in the larger empire. Nearly all of whom were lost in the supernova.
lets not take jj movie as example for alot of his story had lots of holes
also i dont beleave most of the RST was bottled up in one system galaxy is a big place ya know
and to be blunt stop compering star trek to real life equations you dont know how many planet where in the RSE how many system they had or even what the entier population of RSE is all you do is a guessing game
IMHO this is one of the lower prioities. Put done the PvP-forks for a second and please listen first. Why do I come to this conclusion ?
If I remember correctly (please correct me if I remember this wrong) the devs mentioned that the total number of players doing PvP are that low (compared to the people doing PvE) that dropping PvP completly from the game would not effect the game population at all.
This should tell us much about the need to improve PvP. But it also tells us that there are not many people doing PvP. IMO STO was always heavy PvE-sided and I believe it will always be. Improving PvP (what-ever-that-should-mean if not balancing) would improve the game only for a small part of the STO population.
If PvP is improved/fixed/balanced new PvP players are also needed. At the current distribution of player population and chooseable faction from start I do not see that happen very quickly.
The entry for completly new players also needs to be simplfied. Not everyone wants to play as Federation or even worse Fed-vs-Fed PvP (you do not really fight, only ... aeehmm ... do Wargames! ... right) because of lack of factions. What are with the people who want to play the "Bad Guys" only ?
Currently there is only the KDF option after unlocking by playing Federation. It is like being allowed to join the Dark Side only after you managed to played halve of the game on the Light Side. I believe this is a problem. In a perfect situation all factions would be available from first day of playing. Maybe you can not start every race/faction from level 1 but thats ok (and can be fixed with a later release if needed) because of total mission selection for that race/faction.
I think both big SciFi IPs can be compared: both are very one-sided and focused regarding the official storytelling side (Light Side/Federation). If my memory works correct the Dark Side has a bigger or at least comparable player base in SWTOR. There are many people that just want to play as the "Bad Guys". But it needs to be a option first. Diversity is the key to success. I would even go so far to say STO will never outgrow it is current population level by big extent without more diversity. At the moment many Fed mission make you feel to be the Bad Guy and not a Federation captain honouring the Prime Directive and the high morale code of the UFP. But maybe Im alone with this ...
The leveling speed is too fast for enough PvP at something other than endgame level. Do you play some PvP matches or do two missions and go to the next rank with new powers and ships? Even when you only do PvE you can hit endgame before you finish all mission content. I believe that fast level process works against low- and mid-level PvP. I do not know how and if this can be fixed at all.
Everything that helps bringin more (paying) customers into STO is good. But do you really think improving PvP is the best method ? I believe players need to be able to play as a faction/race/career they want and fly a ship/do things they like to be happy and continue playing the game.
Thanks for listening.
Now you can raise the PvP-forks again ...
Thinking about the "Improve Exploration" option ...
Like a other poster already said. "No true exploration possible." The exploration engine would need an almost infinite list of options to generate new missions on-the-fly which do not repeat after a few runs. It can be done but it would requiere a very solid SOA like architecture to make the immersion of exploring the universe.
Multiple option count in a mission, variable length / duration, decision based routing and further option selectiong .... the list of to-do's to get this running is a major task for a developer.
Regarding KDF content update & Romulan faction.
Cryptic has shown & mentioned that content in mission form is not devliered easy and fast. Cryptic can not deliever new missions on a regular level (weekly, bi-weekly, monthly). Maybe there are plans to change this. We do not know.
All is focused on endgame. Missions for leveling are nice to have but not what you will use on daily basis after you hit endgame. I personally do not want to get more level-up-mission for Federation or KDF that need months of developemtn time and are consumed in minutes and never touched again. It will not extend my game experience.
If "normal" mission will not give you any reward comparable to the STF loot system or tokens to get high-level gear from a STF-gear-store system it will not be replayed very often. Why should you replay the mission (Im aware I only using the reward argument here)?
And to the devs : Thanks for the Ask Cryptic and the poll in this !
Please continue your great work :-)
reflecting on what Dstahl wrote, i think it would benefit the game more, if the romulans became an additional race for the KDF.
a.) more content for KDF
b.) more ships for KDF
c.) more people, playing KDF
all the story elements could be done in a 3 episode feature series. But the klingons do not invade romulan territory, they rather overthrow what is left of the senat while sela is gone with the iconians.
reflecting on what Dstahl wrote, i think it would benefit the game more, if the romulans became an additional race for the KDF.
a.) more content for KDF
b.) more ships for KDF
c.) more people, playing KDF
all the story elements could be done in a 3 episode feature series. But the klingons do not invade romulan territory, they rather overthrow what is left of the senat while sela is gone with the iconians.
i will delete my account if this gose down
but would make for a ide to get the hole RSE united again
When it comes to a Romulan faction, the question still remains, would it be healthy for the game to introduce an entirely new faction that is now in the situation we just worked to solve? More than likely, if we were to add the ability to play as a Romulan, we would want to make it so that they could have their own experience, but ultimately fit somehow into the confines of our two faction game. Whether or not this means Romulans ultimately having to choose between which faction they support or something else entirely, the idea that Romulans would be a 3rd unique faction unto itself is a road STO may not take, if only to ensure the future health of the game.
hmmmm what concerns me is your gonna balls this up with thinking it could cause harm. are you worried that when a romulan faction is added next year that some people leave the FEDS for the RSE or even worse lol KDF players also leave for the RSE???? making the KDF even smaller? it could happen but thats the reality of choice which we don't have but should have.
i have 5 toons, 3 fed & 2 kdf i will be joining a romulan faction when added and i couldn't give a hoot about all the money(c/zen-store, lifer, aswell as in game resouces etc) and work i've spent over in my fleet bases and such on both sides. i'm fully prepared to do it all over again. anyway by the time RSE hits holodeck most starbase would most likely be T5.
when you talk of the 'confines of our two faction game' thats where sto went wrong from day 1! it never should have been just a 2 faction game.
kdf content. well you could use this as an idea.... propmoting some foundry mission to episodes. any authors mission that gets selected gets rewarded. more slots, maybe a huge chunk of zen and dilth. almost like paying them thru an ingame process for their work??
It is interesting to see all of the responses in this thread about the feature options for 2013. It is clear that the game has a lot of room to grow and over the next year it is going to be our goal to tackle as many of the features on that list as we can.
When it comes to "factions", one concern I share is that when it comes to Star Trek fans, it is predominantly made up of "Federation" fans. No matter how many other races or factions we consider, the Federation will always be the most popular because they have the "leading role" in the TV shows, Movies, and most Games/Books.
There is also the concern that players have put a lot of effort into their existing characters and fleets. It wouldn't necessarily be a healthy choice to introduce a 3rd faction that has its own fleets, duty officer system, ships, and bridge officers because it would be disruptive to the fleets and friendships you've made in game.
All of this is above and beyond the question of whether or not there would be enough "missions" for a faction to have a solid game experience.
Whenever I think of Federation and KDF mission equality, it reminds me of the challenges we had before we launched the game. There was a drive to get "X hours of mission gameplay" into the box before it shipped. This resulted in a decent amount of episodes and a large amount of lesser quality patrol missions.
Since then we recognized that we wanted to make higher quality episodes AND add KDF as a full PVE faction. What we've been doing over the last two years is adding premium new high quality episodes playable by either faction because it was hitting two birds with one stone.
Add in all of the STF changes, the new Fleet Actions, the DOFF system and now we have a situation where there is almost TOO much leveling content on the Fed side and a decent amount on the KDF side. After looking at a lot of data, it is clear that Fed characters that use the duty officer system and run queued event outlevel the patrol and episode content to the point where most players hit max level before completing the Romulan episode series. In our goal to introduce more quality episodes, we now have a leveling curve that is very fast for the FED side.
When I think of creating "Parity" for the KDF, the goal would *not* be to get KDF to the same place as the FED, because the fact is, the FED curve is too fast. In addition to adding just a few more Episodes for the KDF, we need to weed out some of the less important FED patrols from the leveling path. That is what will get both factions to 1-50 leveling curve parity.
When it comes to a Romulan faction, the question still remains, would it be healthy for the game to introduce an entirely new faction that is now in the situation we just worked to solve? More than likely, if we were to add the ability to play as a Romulan, we would want to make it so that they could have their own experience, but ultimately fit somehow into the confines of our two faction game. Whether or not this means Romulans ultimately having to choose between which faction they support or something else entirely, the idea that Romulans would be a 3rd unique faction unto itself is a road STO may not take, if only to ensure the future health of the game.
Please don't mistake any of this as the "plan of record" but instead me sharing my thoughts on the poll results and what it might mean for STO in 2013. Anything can happen and plans can and do change, but it is fun to discuss and get your feedback when it comes to these ideas.
Dude, what's to discuss, we want playable Romulans with Romulan ships supporting the Romulan Empire. Why are we being treated like we're asking for as I said in another thead an Aston Martin made out of platinum?
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
There is also the concern that players have put a lot of effort into their existing characters and fleets. It wouldn't necessarily be a healthy choice to introduce a 3rd faction that has its own fleets, duty officer system, ships, and bridge officers because it would be disruptive to the fleets and friendships you've made in game.
All of this is above and beyond the question of whether or not there would be enough "missions" for a faction to have a solid game experience.
Retrait and Respecies tokens could help with that. Personally having collected around 15k accolade points on my main I would delete him in a heartbeat and start all over with the friggin starbase, if it were a romulan starbase. Quite frankly the only reason I have invested that heavily into this game is so that maybe one day i could do just that .
Since then we recognized that we wanted to make higher quality episodes AND add KDF as a full PVE faction. What we've been doing over the last two years is adding premium new high quality episodes playable by either faction because it was hitting two birds with one stone.
Add in all of the STF changes, the new Fleet Actions, the DOFF system and now we have a situation where there is almost TOO much leveling content on the Fed side and a decent amount on the KDF side.
/snip
When it comes to a Romulan faction, the question still remains, would it be healthy for the game to introduce an entirely new faction that is now in the situation we just worked to solve? More than likely, if we were to add the ability to play as a Romulan, we would want to make it so that they could have their own experience, but ultimately fit somehow into the confines of our two faction game. Whether or not this means Romulans ultimately having to choose between which faction they support or something else entirely, the idea that Romulans would be a 3rd unique faction unto itself is a road STO may not take, if only to ensure the future health of the game.
Please don't mistake any of this as the "plan of record" but instead me sharing my thoughts on the poll results and what it might mean for STO in 2013. Anything can happen and plans can and do change, but it is fun to discuss and get your feedback when it comes to these ideas.
What happened to "CBS won't allow too many [insert lockbox ship] flying all over the Federation." But they are fine with D'deridex? Romulans are not part of the Federation or the KDF. So what are some ways to achieve their own experience in a cost dev time efficient manner? Certainly not by allowing federation players to create a Romulan character with a blue hud and access to the mogai.
Brainstorming wall of text: TL;DR below.
The basics as I see them:
General:
Different UI, yes it is that simple.
Doffs, since they are a must have item we need RSE artwork, no way am I letting Fed or Klingon targs run my warbird, we need new face pictures, everything else can be copied form KDF FED standard doffs Would be nice to have a few true romulans with a special trait, but no must have. MOst important my roster is filled with pointy eared green blooded heroes.
In our home sector we could hav a few unique missions, but generally we just have the same missions as the FED/KDF, but if RSE accepts Doff missions in a FED/KDF sector we get an infiltration bonus.
Ship: Dohh, obviously we want to fly our top of the line T5 RSE ships. Before reaching T5 we could infiltrate s.b. other factions and be able to fly their ships. more c-store sales from existing content, and we only have to deal with balancing the consoles already in game. RSE can buy both KDF and FED T1-4 ships. They could get a special skin to make it obvious that they are not KDF or FED ships, if art department has the time.
PvP: Abolish it, or end those stupid FvF queues, and get all those people that have been hired to start working on balance already. The miserable state that PvP is in has nothing to do with the RSE...moving on. Yes open world, for the green ones would be grande....*sigh*
Items: Romulans should have their own STF set, can't be that hard to make it, is it?
Crafting: No clue how this trainwreck is going to be salvaged in general, but hell give the RSE disruptor a similar visual effect to the ground gun already in game and everybody happy.
Lvling:
About these high quality two faction missions: check their dialogues, the single most immersion breaking thing about them, is the fact that my KDF cpt is still addressed as a Federation VA. But the idea is still solid.
Would it be too much to remaster some fed episode, giving replay value to feds, while opening up dialogue and objective paths for both RSE and KDF?
Finally give us an infiltration intro so we can play in some FED missions as Vulcans. Lets say after a quick tutorial, even flying FED ships for that time, giving you C-store revenue for lower level ships/consoles? Once we hit lvl, we go back to Rator and get promoted, now we infiltrate the KDF, rinse repeat, new players learn to use cloak. Finally some remastered missions and the existing FEs and we should have more then enough PvE to get us from what 30-50?
One we're done infiltrating each faction the BOs we accumulated during our trip stay with us, or can be traded at Rator, so they become PoW and we get Rom/Rem officers in exchange. If you have to tech to ensure they keep their stats that would enable RSE players to buy up officers form the exchange and change the paper doll to something romulan, while giving RSE access to the space traits and BO skills currently in game.
Rator map: Yes we need it, with Respec guy, BO trainer, ....
This could be a season long stand in for our Starbases. Let Fleets gain [reputation] by donating resources to the colony. Which would then help to upgrade Raotr 3.
The main problem with Friends being kept seperate is that KDF-FED partner fleets have no way of interacting, and that outside STFs things are not cross faction.
Just a thought: Once the community has spend the better part of SX building up Rator (by that time most fleets will be T5 anyway) individual fleets can decide to donate provision to a Romulan starbase/partner fleet. This would be an excellent time point to rethink how partner fleets work. maybe they have the same calendar, fleet chat, bank.... The problem is not having a third faction per se, but the way that the minor and the major factions can interact via the fleet system. Learn from the KDF and the RSE will be fun, while feeling independent enough.
Why can't partner fleets not visit each others starbases? Involve the house system for the KDF, and make loose ties between the faction possible, with a solid in-game explanation.
TL;DR: The reason why a third faction becomes a problem has something to do with how STo handles faction and fleets in general. Not with the population bias. Fix the former and the second won't be an issue for the RSE.
Retrait and Respecies tokens could help with that. Personally having collected around 15k accolade points on my main I would delete him in a heartbeat and start all over with the friggin starbase, if it were a romulan starbase. Quite frankly the only reason I have invested that heavily into this game is so that maybe one day i could do just that .
What happened to "CBS won't allow too many [insert lockbox ship] flying all over the Federation." But they are fine with D'deridex? Romulans are not part of the Federation or the KDF. So what are some ways to achieve their own experience in a cost dev time efficient manner? Certainly not by allowing federation players to create a Romulan character with a blue hud and access to the mogai.
Brainstorming wall of text: TL;DR below.
The basics as I see them:
General:
Different UI, yes it is that simple.
Doffs, since they are a must have item we need RSE artwork, no way am I letting Fed or Klingon targs run my warbird, we need new face pictures, everything else can be copied form KDF FED standard doffs Would be nice to have a few true romulans with a special trait, but no must have. MOst important my roster is filled with pointy eared green blooded heroes.
In our home sector we could hav a few unique missions, but generally we just have the same missions as the FED/KDF, but if RSE accepts Doff missions in a FED/KDF sector we get an infiltration bonus.
Ship: Dohh, obviously we want to fly our top of the line T5 RSE ships. Before reaching T5 we could infiltrate s.b. other factions and be able to fly their ships. more c-store sales from existing content, and we only have to deal with balancing the consoles already in game. RSE can buy both KDF and FED T1-4 ships. They could get a special skin to make it obvious that they are not KDF or FED ships, if art department has the time.
PvP: Abolish it, or end those stupid FvF queues, and get all those people that have been hired to start working on balance already. The miserable state that PvP is in has nothing to do with the RSE...moving on. Yes open world, for the green ones would be grande....*sigh*
Items: Romulans should have their own STF set, can't be that hard to make it, is it?
Crafting: No clue how this trainwreck is going to be salvaged in general, but hell give the RSE disruptor a similar visual effect to the ground gun already in game and everybody happy.
Lvling:
About these high quality two faction missions: check their dialogues, the single most immersion breaking thing about them, is the fact that my KDF cpt is still addressed as a Federation VA. But the idea is still solid.
Would it be too much to remaster some fed episode, giving replay value to feds, while opening up dialogue and objective paths for both RSE and KDF?
Finally give us an infiltration intro so we can play in some FED missions as Vulcans. Lets say after a quick tutorial, even flying FED ships for that time, giving you C-store revenue for lower level ships/consoles? Once we hit lvl, we go back to Rator and get promoted, now we infiltrate the KDF, rinse repeat, new players learn to use cloak. Finally some remastered missions and the existing FEs and we should have more then enough PvE to get us from what 30-50?
One we're done infiltrating each faction the BOs we accumulated during our trip stay with us, or can be traded at Rator, so they become PoW and we get Rom/Rem officers in exchange. If you have to tech to ensure they keep their stats that would enable RSE players to buy up officers form the exchange and change the paper doll to something romulan, while giving RSE access to the space traits and BO skills currently in game.
Rator map: Yes we need it, with Respec guy, BO trainer, ....
This could be a season long stand in for our Starbases. Let Fleets gain [reputation] by donating resources to the colony. Which would then help to upgrade Raotr 3.
The main problem with Friends being kept seperate is that KDF-FED partner fleets have no way of interacting, and that outside STFs things are not cross faction.
Just a thought: Once the community has spend the better part of SX building up Rator (by that time most fleets will be T5 anyway) individual fleets can decide to donate provision to a Romulan starbase/partner fleet. This would be an excellent time point to rethink how partner fleets work. maybe they have the same calendar, fleet chat, bank.... The problem is not having a third faction per se, but the way that the minor and the major factions can interact via the fleet system. Learn from the KDF and the RSE will be fun, while feeling independent enough.
Why can't partner fleets not visit each others starbases? Involve the house system for the KDF, and make loose ties between the faction possible, with a solid in-game explanation.
TL;DR: The reason why a third faction becomes a problem has something to do with how STo handles faction and fleets in general. Not with the population bias. Fix the former and the second won't be an issue for the RSE.
reflecting on what Dstahl wrote, i think it would benefit the game more, if the romulans became an additional race for the KDF.
a.) more content for KDF
b.) more ships for KDF
c.) more people, playing KDF
all the story elements could be done in a 3 episode feature series. But the klingons do not invade romulan territory, they rather overthrow what is left of the senat while sela is gone with the iconians.
I have a problem with the idea that "races are a certain way" in Star Trek.
Cultures are, maybe.
But a Klingon raised by Ferengi will act like a Ferengi.
A Klingon, raised by Humans, did NOT act like a Human. He may have learnt some of the "foolish" Human values, like compassion and empathy, but he still had his Honor, and pride of the Empire.
Speaking ofcourse, of "Ambassador" Worf (later General, in STO).
A Klingon, raised by Humans, did NOT act like a Human. He may have learnt some of the "foolish" Human values, like compassion and empathy, but he still had his Honor, and pride of the Empire.
Speaking ofcourse, of "Ambassador" Worf (later General, in STO).
not to say he left starfleet ones for gowron to serve the klingon empire for he did not like the oders picard gave him
When it comes to a Romulan faction, the question still remains, would it be healthy for the game to introduce an entirely new faction that is now in the situation we just worked to solve? More than likely, if we were to add the ability to play as a Romulan, we would want to make it so that they could have their own experience, but ultimately fit somehow into the confines of our two faction game. Whether or not this means Romulans ultimately having to choose between which faction they support or something else entirely, the idea that Romulans would be a 3rd unique faction unto itself is a road STO may not take, if only to ensure the future health of the game.
Then don't bother doing FED and KDF Romulans, it's definitely not worth it, and you'll likely make the game so far away from the Star Trek series that it couldn't really be named "Star Trek". I would likely play a lvl 50 faction only, but I voted for KDF content instead since I have more interest in factions than in new costumes.
Also, the fleet issues are a false concern, many people would create a mirror RSE fleet. They would likely not invest as much time and ressources into it, but it wouldn't break current fleets at all.
Comments
Wasn't Klingon Academy seen as a pretty colossal commercial failure, despite being a good game?
to sum it up lap dogs and to me that dont sound like romulans romulans do not trust outsiders or like them this sould be evident from all of star trek movie and show
system Lord Baal is dead
I have a problem with the idea that "races are a certain way" in Star Trek.
Cultures are, maybe.
But a Klingon raised by Ferengi will act like a Ferengi.
And we're talking about a setting where there hasn't BEEN a Romulan Empire for a full generation, where what passed for a Romulan Empire was a few cosplaying Tal'Shiar.
The species is nearly gone. Most have been enslaved or turned into laborers. There are adult Romulans (and they may account for the majority of living Romulans in the galaxy) who have never seen the Empire. They've never served it. They only know it from books and records, provided they have access to those.
The only ones really "living the dream" are a small elite who are working for the Iconians.
Even if Cryptic had the resources, I don't think Romulans should really be all that much like they were pre-Hobus. For that, you'd need a TNG era MMO and this game needs to make some hard breaks with TNG and TOS somewhere. The destruction of Romulus shouldn't be something that gets glossed over. It should redefine Romulans.
That's one of my problems with a Romulan or a Cardassian faction. If it resembles the faction that people who enjoyed them on TNG and DS9 want, it's wrong for the setting.
I hear what you say, and actually understand what you mean. The levelling on Fed side IS fast compared to the KDF. I don't want faster levelling on the KDF (truthfully, I want less XP per mission on BOTH sides to slow it down so I can enjoy my ship but that's a different matter).
I even understand your reservations about creating a third faction in its own right but I quote your own attitude towards the KDF of "build it and they will come".
On the forums you have Romulan supporters being almost as vocal as the KDF. In game you have players creating their own "alien" Romulans because they have no other option. On this very thread you have players talking about their own Romulan "RP" fleet (I say "RP" because they are having to pretend it's a real Romulan). Then you have players like me.
I want the KDF to have more stories so I can enjoy my favourite race doing that it's supposed to do, not shoehorned into doing what the Federation does.
I also want to spend money on character slots to play a Romulan. I want to play for the RSE as a Romulan or even a "loyal" Reman. I want to play a Vulcan Unificationist on the RSE. I want to play Selay, Hirogen or whatever other race is exclusive to the RSE on ships whose cloaks don't break as easily as the Klingon's. Heck the lower level ships can even be re-skinned Klingon ships for all I care (House of Torg selling old D5 and D7 ships to a broken people? Happened before which is how the Romulans got many ships in the first place). I could even see some House of Torg Klingons on the RSE side (without the traits which make a Klingon honourable of course).
I voted Klingon content because that is where my heart lies. I would be happy to see the RSE because I am a Star Trek fan and a STO gamer and this would be best for the game (maybe not the devs, who would have to work their mivoks off
Please, don't shoehorn Romulans and Remans into the remaining factions.
PS Oh and if you are thinking of removing content from the Fed side, please start with the "Bring a Jumja stick to Memory Alpha mission". What? We can build personal shield generators but can't replicate a Jumja stick?
Jo Cox 22.6.1974 - 16.6.2016
Do you think those missions really teach people how to play?
The Fed missions are supposed to.
That's part of why they require the 1-20 Fed content to be played.
They could have unlocked Klingons at level 1. They didn't.
Playing 50 missions doesn't teach you the game and, in theory, the Klingon War front Fed side does.
to me the romluans are in disarray no more then that only take one thing to unite them again if i can only play i romulan lap dog then they just need to stay out of the game and stay as NPC
system Lord Baal is dead
this is great ide for KDF and a romulan stand alone
system Lord Baal is dead
bigo ding ding ding we have a winer think ppl still bying into that supernova that threatens the entire galaxy and think most if not the entier fleet of the RSE got destroyed JJ and that movie .......
system Lord Baal is dead
just thinking outside the box here but is this not what the tutorial is for?
this game not that hard to get as ive always side a 4 year old could play this game
system Lord Baal is dead
Let players make Romulan foundry missions before we can create Romulan characters, and integrate the best into the flow.
Losing Vulcan in Star Trek 2009 left behind only a few thousand Vulcans.
If we're going with Rome (since that's the relevant metaphor for Romulus) then they went from 5 million to around 30,000 during their fall. So that may be a useful percentage. Or it may be helpful to consider that the Roman Empire was 40% urban and highly centralized, much more so than contemporary societies. Given that the United States TODAY is relatively urban (around 80%) and using that as a benchmark for how urban the future of Trek would be, for Romulus to feel Roman, most of the population would have to be on the planet Romulus.
This also matches what we know of Romulus.
Whereas Earth had 9 billion inhabitants, Romulus had 18 billion despite a presumably matched fleet size and number of people in the larger empire. Nearly all of whom were lost in the supernova.
This game is based around the aftermath of that supernova. This game explains why the supernova was a threat to the galaxy.
If you don't buy into the supernova, you're rejecting STO's setting to begin with.
Nope.
That's what leveling is for in an MMO.
you know to me the foundry again to me was the Dev way to make a excuse to not make mission as much and it has showing over 2 years but they could take like doing a poll for the say top 5 Dev picked foundry mission the player base votes number one get adopted to Dev mission and i could do with out Voice overs and cute scenes i would more likely play a Dev adopted mission then i will looking for mission in the foundry
let me give you example of why i dont like foundry mission they are like the books to me they are not cannon what the Dev makes or if they took the ide of adopting mission it would be like prime universe cannon to me
system Lord Baal is dead
hmmmm thot it said in a mission it threatened the system not the galaxy but its been since year one since i played any of the story line mission so i could be off
system Lord Baal is dead
There is just one minor thing that will bite you in the back most certainly then. Territorial control pvp just doesn't work right in a two faction game with huge population gaps between the factions. I've been there. I've played more than 5 years on a **** Server with a 2.5A/1M/0.75H relation and that server was considered 'mostly' balanced because most of the time there was some kind of truce between the smaller realms. When some parts of the community switched to warhammer and its two faction game the smaller faction got steamrolled over and over again, with a much smaller advantage of population (1 Chaos/1.2 Order [yes that is correct, I had the 'luck' to play on one of the few servers were order actually had more players]). Same company, mostly the same playerbase, very different outcomes.
lets not take jj movie as example for alot of his story had lots of holes
also i dont beleave most of the RST was bottled up in one system galaxy is a big place ya know
and to be blunt stop compering star trek to real life equations you dont know how many planet where in the RSE how many system they had or even what the entier population of RSE is all you do is a guessing game
system Lord Baal is dead
IMHO this is one of the lower prioities. Put done the PvP-forks for a second and please listen first. Why do I come to this conclusion ?
If I remember correctly (please correct me if I remember this wrong) the devs mentioned that the total number of players doing PvP are that low (compared to the people doing PvE) that dropping PvP completly from the game would not effect the game population at all.
This should tell us much about the need to improve PvP. But it also tells us that there are not many people doing PvP. IMO STO was always heavy PvE-sided and I believe it will always be. Improving PvP (what-ever-that-should-mean if not balancing) would improve the game only for a small part of the STO population.
If PvP is improved/fixed/balanced new PvP players are also needed. At the current distribution of player population and chooseable faction from start I do not see that happen very quickly.
The entry for completly new players also needs to be simplfied. Not everyone wants to play as Federation or even worse Fed-vs-Fed PvP (you do not really fight, only ... aeehmm ... do Wargames! ... right) because of lack of factions. What are with the people who want to play the "Bad Guys" only ?
Currently there is only the KDF option after unlocking by playing Federation. It is like being allowed to join the Dark Side only after you managed to played halve of the game on the Light Side. I believe this is a problem. In a perfect situation all factions would be available from first day of playing. Maybe you can not start every race/faction from level 1 but thats ok (and can be fixed with a later release if needed) because of total mission selection for that race/faction.
I think both big SciFi IPs can be compared: both are very one-sided and focused regarding the official storytelling side (Light Side/Federation). If my memory works correct the Dark Side has a bigger or at least comparable player base in SWTOR. There are many people that just want to play as the "Bad Guys". But it needs to be a option first. Diversity is the key to success. I would even go so far to say STO will never outgrow it is current population level by big extent without more diversity. At the moment many Fed mission make you feel to be the Bad Guy and not a Federation captain honouring the Prime Directive and the high morale code of the UFP. But maybe Im alone with this ...
The leveling speed is too fast for enough PvP at something other than endgame level. Do you play some PvP matches or do two missions and go to the next rank with new powers and ships? Even when you only do PvE you can hit endgame before you finish all mission content. I believe that fast level process works against low- and mid-level PvP. I do not know how and if this can be fixed at all.
Everything that helps bringin more (paying) customers into STO is good. But do you really think improving PvP is the best method ? I believe players need to be able to play as a faction/race/career they want and fly a ship/do things they like to be happy and continue playing the game.
Thanks for listening.
Now you can raise the PvP-forks again ...
Thinking about the "Improve Exploration" option ...
Like a other poster already said. "No true exploration possible." The exploration engine would need an almost infinite list of options to generate new missions on-the-fly which do not repeat after a few runs. It can be done but it would requiere a very solid SOA like architecture to make the immersion of exploring the universe.
Multiple option count in a mission, variable length / duration, decision based routing and further option selectiong .... the list of to-do's to get this running is a major task for a developer.
Regarding KDF content update & Romulan faction.
Cryptic has shown & mentioned that content in mission form is not devliered easy and fast. Cryptic can not deliever new missions on a regular level (weekly, bi-weekly, monthly). Maybe there are plans to change this. We do not know.
All is focused on endgame. Missions for leveling are nice to have but not what you will use on daily basis after you hit endgame. I personally do not want to get more level-up-mission for Federation or KDF that need months of developemtn time and are consumed in minutes and never touched again. It will not extend my game experience.
If "normal" mission will not give you any reward comparable to the STF loot system or tokens to get high-level gear from a STF-gear-store system it will not be replayed very often. Why should you replay the mission (Im aware I only using the reward argument here)?
And to the devs : Thanks for the Ask Cryptic and the poll in this !
Please continue your great work :-)
a.) more content for KDF
b.) more ships for KDF
c.) more people, playing KDF
all the story elements could be done in a 3 episode feature series. But the klingons do not invade romulan territory, they rather overthrow what is left of the senat while sela is gone with the iconians.
i will delete my account if this gose down
but would make for a ide to get the hole RSE united again
system Lord Baal is dead
hmmmm what concerns me is your gonna balls this up with thinking it could cause harm. are you worried that when a romulan faction is added next year that some people leave the FEDS for the RSE or even worse lol KDF players also leave for the RSE???? making the KDF even smaller? it could happen but thats the reality of choice which we don't have but should have.
i have 5 toons, 3 fed & 2 kdf i will be joining a romulan faction when added and i couldn't give a hoot about all the money(c/zen-store, lifer, aswell as in game resouces etc) and work i've spent over in my fleet bases and such on both sides. i'm fully prepared to do it all over again. anyway by the time RSE hits holodeck most starbase would most likely be T5.
when you talk of the 'confines of our two faction game' thats where sto went wrong from day 1! it never should have been just a 2 faction game.
kdf content. well you could use this as an idea.... propmoting some foundry mission to episodes. any authors mission that gets selected gets rewarded. more slots, maybe a huge chunk of zen and dilth. almost like paying them thru an ingame process for their work??
Dude, what's to discuss, we want playable Romulans with Romulan ships supporting the Romulan Empire. Why are we being treated like we're asking for as I said in another thead an Aston Martin made out of platinum?
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
Retrait and Respecies tokens could help with that. Personally having collected around 15k accolade points on my main I would delete him in a heartbeat and start all over with the friggin starbase, if it were a romulan starbase. Quite frankly the only reason I have invested that heavily into this game is so that maybe one day i could do just that .
What happened to "CBS won't allow too many [insert lockbox ship] flying all over the Federation." But they are fine with D'deridex? Romulans are not part of the Federation or the KDF. So what are some ways to achieve their own experience in a cost dev time efficient manner? Certainly not by allowing federation players to create a Romulan character with a blue hud and access to the mogai.
Brainstorming wall of text: TL;DR below.
The basics as I see them:
General:
Different UI, yes it is that simple.
Doffs, since they are a must have item we need RSE artwork, no way am I letting Fed or Klingon targs run my warbird, we need new face pictures, everything else can be copied form KDF FED standard doffs Would be nice to have a few true romulans with a special trait, but no must have. MOst important my roster is filled with pointy eared green blooded heroes.
In our home sector we could hav a few unique missions, but generally we just have the same missions as the FED/KDF, but if RSE accepts Doff missions in a FED/KDF sector we get an infiltration bonus.
Ship: Dohh, obviously we want to fly our top of the line T5 RSE ships. Before reaching T5 we could infiltrate s.b. other factions and be able to fly their ships. more c-store sales from existing content, and we only have to deal with balancing the consoles already in game. RSE can buy both KDF and FED T1-4 ships. They could get a special skin to make it obvious that they are not KDF or FED ships, if art department has the time.
PvP: Abolish it, or end those stupid FvF queues, and get all those people that have been hired to start working on balance already. The miserable state that PvP is in has nothing to do with the RSE...moving on. Yes open world, for the green ones would be grande....*sigh*
Items: Romulans should have their own STF set, can't be that hard to make it, is it?
Crafting: No clue how this trainwreck is going to be salvaged in general, but hell give the RSE disruptor a similar visual effect to the ground gun already in game and everybody happy.
Lvling:
About these high quality two faction missions: check their dialogues, the single most immersion breaking thing about them, is the fact that my KDF cpt is still addressed as a Federation VA. But the idea is still solid.
Would it be too much to remaster some fed episode, giving replay value to feds, while opening up dialogue and objective paths for both RSE and KDF?
Finally give us an infiltration intro so we can play in some FED missions as Vulcans. Lets say after a quick tutorial, even flying FED ships for that time, giving you C-store revenue for lower level ships/consoles? Once we hit lvl, we go back to Rator and get promoted, now we infiltrate the KDF, rinse repeat, new players learn to use cloak. Finally some remastered missions and the existing FEs and we should have more then enough PvE to get us from what 30-50?
One we're done infiltrating each faction the BOs we accumulated during our trip stay with us, or can be traded at Rator, so they become PoW and we get Rom/Rem officers in exchange. If you have to tech to ensure they keep their stats that would enable RSE players to buy up officers form the exchange and change the paper doll to something romulan, while giving RSE access to the space traits and BO skills currently in game.
Rator map: Yes we need it, with Respec guy, BO trainer, ....
This could be a season long stand in for our Starbases. Let Fleets gain [reputation] by donating resources to the colony. Which would then help to upgrade Raotr 3.
The main problem with Friends being kept seperate is that KDF-FED partner fleets have no way of interacting, and that outside STFs things are not cross faction.
Just a thought: Once the community has spend the better part of SX building up Rator (by that time most fleets will be T5 anyway) individual fleets can decide to donate provision to a Romulan starbase/partner fleet. This would be an excellent time point to rethink how partner fleets work. maybe they have the same calendar, fleet chat, bank.... The problem is not having a third faction per se, but the way that the minor and the major factions can interact via the fleet system. Learn from the KDF and the RSE will be fun, while feeling independent enough.
Why can't partner fleets not visit each others starbases? Involve the house system for the KDF, and make loose ties between the faction possible, with a solid in-game explanation.
TL;DR: The reason why a third faction becomes a problem has something to do with how STo handles faction and fleets in general. Not with the population bias. Fix the former and the second won't be an issue for the RSE.
Waiting for romulans since beta, LLAP
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
are you after my romulan heart?
system Lord Baal is dead
Not in a billion years
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
my thots to
system Lord Baal is dead
A Klingon, raised by Humans, did NOT act like a Human. He may have learnt some of the "foolish" Human values, like compassion and empathy, but he still had his Honor, and pride of the Empire.
Speaking ofcourse, of "Ambassador" Worf (later General, in STO).
not to say he left starfleet ones for gowron to serve the klingon empire for he did not like the oders picard gave him
system Lord Baal is dead
Then don't bother doing FED and KDF Romulans, it's definitely not worth it, and you'll likely make the game so far away from the Star Trek series that it couldn't really be named "Star Trek". I would likely play a lvl 50 faction only, but I voted for KDF content instead since I have more interest in factions than in new costumes.
Also, the fleet issues are a false concern, many people would create a mirror RSE fleet. They would likely not invest as much time and ressources into it, but it wouldn't break current fleets at all.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.