I'd prefer they just fix the problem they created by either rasing the prices of the fleet doffs or marking them as recognizably un-usable.
Huzzah...working as intended.
But I do agree with the changes you request. I'm not defending the current way it works, I'm just showing that we can still take advantage from a broken situation. I know it's not a stable situation if people buy doffs they won't be able to use. The UI change is required.
Not sure about a price change. Getting millions of fleet credits isn't hard...
They have a very interesting use: the grinder. It's magic. You should give a try.
So they are definitely usefull. It's not a removal of the feature, it's just a nerf.
Magic is what comes out of lock boxes. This is something much more glorious.
Let me see if I got this. They fixed an exploit but didn't find the new exploit it generated? As I see it, they just made it more tedious to do the same thing you could do before with a bit of extra time and cost.
Why not simply increase the timers and raise the cost of fleet DOffs? That solution carries the bonus of not disrupting the exchange. Huzzah!
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
Devian - not from the personnel officer - those still work for projects. The ones that don't work are the ones bought from the Fleet DOFF vendor.
well, they do work - as intended.
They also sell well on the exchange (as intended).
I think PWE missed the point here. People put those doffs from the fleet doff vendor at their own expense. Same with dismissing them for dil and recruitment xp. Now other than two ships that I want and a few pieces of fleet ship/ground equipment there's nothing to spend the fleet credits on. They implemented something good then in their bungling they removed it and wrecked the doff market. Why would I buy doffs for fleet projects when they could be from the fleet doff vendor. Basically they've undermined my reason to play, so instead I'm going to have have getting space rich selling doffs.
But I do agree with the changes you request. I'm not defending the current way it works, I'm just showing that we can still take advantage from a broken situation. I know it's not a stable situation if people buy doffs they won't be able to use. The UI change is required.
Not sure about a price change. Getting millions of fleet credits isn't hard...
Doesn't matter if its hard, it still has to be done (time sink).
And I wouldn't use difficulty as a cornerstone of your argument, since DOFF recruitment missions (the other way of aquiring white commons) require nothing at all other than you to wait out the timer for three days.
At least the number of fleet credits I earn (by grinding fleet marks or sacrificing consumables/doffs) is based on me actually doing something.
Because... 1. Thats too easy, and 2. It wouldnt generate any extra revenue.
And why should they? Obviously theres no problem with the Exchange, or the DOff market, or the Starbase system due to the latest patch?
No problem at all. Its now working as intended...
Well... your posts have been spammy, trolly, have added nothing to the discussion, and are fairly offensive.
You might not know this, but sarcasm doesn't really bleed through in text. So while you might think you're helping, all you're doing is making our complaints not seem legitimate by inserting yourself with these inane and banal comments which are only on topic in the loosest way.
President of the Amnian Illithid Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Please spread the word that the term "Mind Flayer" is a derogatory term to our kind.
Well... your posts have been spammy, trolly, have added nothing to the discussion, and are fairly offensive.
You might not know this, but sarcasm doesn't really bleed through in text. So while you might think you're helping, all you're doing is making our complaints not seem legitimate by inserting yourself with these inane and banal comments which are only on topic in the loosest way.
Know what else doesn't work well in text? Condescention. Although your post is pretty good at trying to convey it. :rolleyes:
His posts are fine. If you'd rather not read them, ignore him.
I'm pretty sure the ignore feature still works - as intended.
So I havent gotten a chance to get into the game yet. What is ESD chat looking like as people are suddenly discovering that the 300K EC DOFF they just bought to finish up a project is useless?
This has forced me to cash in a lot of my fleet credits as I'll have to sell all these doffs now before PWE make fleet credits completely worthless. I hope everyone enjoys the doffs that I'm selling.
Discuss the issue or leave the discussion. If you don't want to discuss the issue, but continue to post with the apparent aim of provoking other posters and derailing the discussion, you're either a troll or PWE sock puppet.
Well... your posts have been spammy, trolly, have added nothing to the discussion, and are fairly offensive.
You might not know this, but sarcasm doesn't really bleed through in text. So while you might think you're helping, all you're doing is making our complaints not seem legitimate by inserting yourself with these inane and banal comments which are only on topic in the loosest way.
Know what else doesn't work well in text? Condescention. Although your post is pretty good at trying to convey it. :rolleyes:
His posts are fine. If you'd rather not read them, ignore him.
I'm pretty sure the ignore feature still works - as intended.
....and THIS ^^^^^
.....Are exactly why PWE should allow for crazy notions like Petition threads. Each of these people are entitled to thier opinion, but none of these posts actualy deals with the problem at hand. If you were a DEV, would YOU bother to read thru pages and pages of this?
So I havent gotten a chance to get into the game yet. What is ESD chat looking like as people are suddenly discovering that the 300K EC DOFF they just bought to finish up a project is useless?
.....Are exactly why PWE should allow for crazy notions like Petition threads. Each of these people are entitled to thier opinion, but none of these posts actualy deals with the problem at hand. If you were a DEV, would YOU bother to read thru pages and pages of this?
Again nothing against you three.
Exactly. #my2ECs
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
Discuss the issue or leave the discussion. If you don't want to discuss the issue, but continue to post with the apparent aim of provoking other posters and derailing the discussion, you're either a troll or PWE sock puppet.
What discussion?
The devs remain mute on this, so all we have is one side complaining about this horrble design that they didnt even have the common courtesy to mention in the patch notes.
.....Are exactly why PWE should allow for crazy notions like Petition threads. Each of these people are entitled to thier opinion, but none of these posts actualy deals with the problem at hand. If you were a DEV, would YOU bother to read thru pages and pages of this?
Again nothing against you three.
Yeah, of course, if Cryptic wanted to end the discussion, they could also just post something explaining why this decision was made and what the ramifications are going forward.
If they don't know what they are going to do about this issue, they could just post something that says "hey, yeah..we effed up. We will kick it around a little and let you know what we will do to un-eff this. Stay tuned. Thanks."
or they can continue to remain silent, in which case all we are left to assume is that it is indeed....
The real issue, from PWE's point of view, was that players were disbanding the doffs, turning them into DL, and thereby disincentivizing the sale of Zpoints for exchange into dil.
PWE would far prefer players not hit their dil cap as easily or on as many chars, and use the doffgrinder and doffbreaker to get doffs for SBs, which consumes more dil and drives further purchases of Zpoints for the DL exchange.
It's greed plain and simple. The SB system is more than adequate as what it was intended to be, a massive resource sink to drive Zstore purchases and a mechanism designed to drive fleet bullying to make further purchases, but that wasn't good enough for PWE, whose admins are apparently willing to sacrifice game elegance and functionality to squeeze a few more bucks out of the playerbase.
At least the number of fleet credits I earn (by grinding fleet marks or sacrificing consumables/doffs) is based on me actually doing something.
True. But in MMOs, you will always have people spending 20h a day, hardly sleeping and feeding themselves to achieve something. It there was a well known infinite doff generator, you can be sure that there would be people trying to generate infinite amounts of doffs. You might think it would be a good thing. You may also consider that buying doff packs keeps the servers running and pays the wages of people working on the game.
Several ways to break the doff market and system were existing before this patch, but they have limits, and people who know them don't abuse them like crazy so that balance can be preserved, and everyone is happy with that.
Again I'm not saying that the devs are always right, they often make bad decisions (as everyone does), I'm just looking for the most acceptable solution for everyone, players and game owners. That's the way to maximize your chance to get changes: ask for something they can give you, not for what you really want.
Can you still grind up the doffs? Does the newly created doff inherit the "bought from the fleet" flag? If not, it's not a total dealbreaker, since you can buy 5, grind them up to a green, then grind them down to 3 whites. It makes the whole thing more expensive than it is now, but still miles cheaper than any other option, although the whole process is pretty annoying.
The real issue, from PWE's point of view, was that players were disbanding the doffs, turning them into DL, and thereby disincentivizing the sale of Zpoints for exchange into dil.
PWE would far prefer players not hit their dil cap as easily or on as many chars, and use the doffgrinder and doffbreaker to get doffs for SBs, which consumes more dil and drives further purchases of Zpoints for the DL exchange.
It's greed plain and simple. The SB system is more than adequate as what it was intended to be, a massive resource sink to drive Zstore purchases and a mechanism designed to drive fleet bullying to make further purchases, but that wasn't good enough for PWE, whose admins are apparently willing to sacrifice game elegance and functionality to squeeze a few more bucks out of the playerbase.
I initially thought it was tied to dilithium, too. But then isn't just removing the dilithium reward for dismissing the fleet doff a good enough solution?
Im just angry for the people who have will spend thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of ECs on DOffs to use on projects, and find when they try (and fail) to donate this DOff to their project, because theres no way of telling between a fleet and regular DOff on the exchange.
Im angry on behalf of the members of my fleet (and Im sure, many others) who have spent hard-earned fleet credits on DOffs that are now worth a lot less than they were 6 hours ago.
Im angry, that theres been no clarification or official word from Cryptic about this issue.
Im angry, that this massive change wasnt even mentioned on the latest Patch Notes, or those for Tribble when it was tested.
But what makes me most angry of all, is when this was reported for being a potential bug, the only answer we got was a glib "Working as intended" from Cryptic.
Thats not just a gameplay error. Its not even a loss of time, or resources. Hell, its not even the inconvenience it has, and will cause to tens of thousands of people...
...its the fact that it was brushed off with a glib three-word official response.
So, please excuse any offense I may have caused. Its nothing compared to what this issue is causing, and will cause, a lot of people in this game.
The real issue, from PWE's point of view, was that players were disbanding the doffs, turning them into DL, and thereby disincentivizing the sale of Zpoints for exchange into dil.
...
That issue isn't resolved if you can still transfer fleet doffs to regular doffs. Besides, that also doesn't require you to prevent their use in fleet projects.
By the way, the anger over this will undoubtedly cause them to fix the fleet doff to regular doff conversion, not restore fleet doffs for use on fleet projects.
Kobayashi Maru
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
The real issue, from PWE's point of view, was that players were disbanding the doffs, turning them into DL, and thereby disincentivizing the sale of Zpoints for exchange into dil.
PWE would far prefer players not hit their dil cap as easily or on as many chars, and use the doffgrinder and doffbreaker to get doffs for SBs, which consumes more dil and drives further purchases of Zpoints for the DL exchange.
It's greed plain and simple. The SB system is more than adequate as what it was intended to be, a massive resource sink to drive Zstore purchases and a mechanism designed to drive fleet bullying to make further purchases, but that wasn't good enough for PWE, whose admins are apparently willing to sacrifice game elegance and functionality to squeeze a few more bucks out of the playerbase.
With all the DIL that is easily available in game as it is, they could have simply removed the DIL value of the DOFFs when dismissed. Hell they could do this right across the board and they would be justified in doing so.
If what you suggest is the motivation, and they have said nothing so far, then there was a far simpler solution at hand.
What they have done however just seems very amaturish, ham-handed, and impulsive.
That issue isn't resolved if you can still transfer fleet doffs to regular doffs. Besides, that also doesn't require you to prevent their use in fleet projects.
By the way, the anger over this will undoubtedly cause them to fix the fleet doff to regular doff conversion, not restore fleet doffs for use on fleet projects.
N.B. Ive just tested this, and it works. If you buy 5 Fleet Common DOffs, "boil" them up to one Uncommon (Green) DOff, then break it back down to 3 Common DOffs, these DOffs work as normal.
Still, it means you're spending 2,500 Fleet Credits on three white officers, not to mention the time and dilithium involved in boiling/breaking them all. A fair chunk, when a fleet ship needs 20,000
True. But in MMOs, you will always have people spending 20h a day, hardly sleeping and feeding themselves to achieve something. It there was a well known infinite doff generator, you can be sure that there would be people trying to generate infinite amounts of doffs. You might think it would be a good thing. You may also consider that buying doff packs keeps the servers running and pays the wages of people working on the game.
Several ways to break the doff market and system were existing before this patch, but they have limits, and people who know them don't abuse them like crazy so that balance can be preserved, and everyone is happy with that.
Again I'm not saying that the devs are always right, they often make bad decisions (as everyone does), I'm just looking for the most acceptable solution for everyone, players and game owners. That's the way to maximize your chance to get changes: ask for something they can give you, not for what you really want.
This is a dishonest and manipulative PWE sock puppet argument.
First off, no, extra revenue doesn't go to "pay the wages of people working on the game" or "keep the servers up". Any revenue past expenditures is pure profit and goes into the pockets of the owners. And it is maxmizing that profit that is their goal. Such is the nature of business.
The dishonest argument to the effect that giving corps money does some good for sympathetic people is a stock argument used by sock puppets for pretty much every video game company out there.
Second, the bit about "20 hours a day" is a strawman aimed at making the reader blame the "no lifers" for the situation and not the devs and producers who made the call. Again, this is a common cheap shot used by sock puppets.
Third, you talk about "ways to break the doff system" and "limits", but this is totally dishonest, because the fleet doffs were resource-negative and bottlenecked by the supply of fleet marks and project timers.
Your intent is to imply that it was an unlimited spigot of doffs that has now been shunted, this is completely untrue. So why even make the untrue claim? You seem to have no other point in doing so other than to advocate players giving PWE $$$ for doffpacks.
Finally, the close of your argument is a petty and insincere attempt to sound reasonable and honest when you are nothing of the sort. You mention that devs "sometimes" make bad decisions, trying to imply this is not one of those occasions when clearly it is, without arguing against that obvious fact.
You are looking out for PWE and only PWE, proof being you are misrepresenting the facts and seem to have no recurrent theme to what you say other than advocating giving them $$$.
Comments
well, they do work - as intended.
where is my nerf football!!!!
doh!
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
But I do agree with the changes you request. I'm not defending the current way it works, I'm just showing that we can still take advantage from a broken situation. I know it's not a stable situation if people buy doffs they won't be able to use. The UI change is required.
Not sure about a price change. Getting millions of fleet credits isn't hard...
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Magic is what comes out of lock boxes. This is something much more glorious.
Let me see if I got this. They fixed an exploit but didn't find the new exploit it generated? As I see it, they just made it more tedious to do the same thing you could do before with a bit of extra time and cost.
Why not simply increase the timers and raise the cost of fleet DOffs? That solution carries the bonus of not disrupting the exchange. Huzzah!
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
They also sell well on the exchange (as intended).
I think PWE missed the point here. People put those doffs from the fleet doff vendor at their own expense. Same with dismissing them for dil and recruitment xp. Now other than two ships that I want and a few pieces of fleet ship/ground equipment there's nothing to spend the fleet credits on. They implemented something good then in their bungling they removed it and wrecked the doff market. Why would I buy doffs for fleet projects when they could be from the fleet doff vendor. Basically they've undermined my reason to play, so instead I'm going to have have getting space rich selling doffs.
Doesn't matter if its hard, it still has to be done (time sink).
And I wouldn't use difficulty as a cornerstone of your argument, since DOFF recruitment missions (the other way of aquiring white commons) require nothing at all other than you to wait out the timer for three days.
At least the number of fleet credits I earn (by grinding fleet marks or sacrificing consumables/doffs) is based on me actually doing something.
And why should they? Obviously theres no problem with the Exchange, or the DOff market, or the Starbase system due to the latest patch?
No problem at all. Its now working as intended...
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
Well... your posts have been spammy, trolly, have added nothing to the discussion, and are fairly offensive.
You might not know this, but sarcasm doesn't really bleed through in text. So while you might think you're helping, all you're doing is making our complaints not seem legitimate by inserting yourself with these inane and banal comments which are only on topic in the loosest way.
Know what else doesn't work well in text? Condescention. Although your post is pretty good at trying to convey it. :rolleyes:
His posts are fine. If you'd rather not read them, ignore him.
I'm pretty sure the ignore feature still works - as intended.
Since its highly doubtful that it will be fixed, due to this unbelievable "working as intended" comment regarding said game-breaking feature...
...why not laugh about it? Its better than crying...
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
Because it contributes nothing to the discussion.
Discuss the issue or leave the discussion. If you don't want to discuss the issue, but continue to post with the apparent aim of provoking other posters and derailing the discussion, you're either a troll or PWE sock puppet.
^^^^THIS....
.....THIS^^^^....
....and THIS ^^^^^
.....Are exactly why PWE should allow for crazy notions like Petition threads. Each of these people are entitled to thier opinion, but none of these posts actualy deals with the problem at hand. If you were a DEV, would YOU bother to read thru pages and pages of this?
Again nothing against you three.
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
I don't plan to unsubscribe over this issue - as I love the Game and for the most part I am happy with what the dev's do.
And all I said was that "some" people might want to know if it was "working as intended" after this boondoggle
I guess some humour is "not working as intended"
What discussion?
The devs remain mute on this, so all we have is one side complaining about this horrble design that they didnt even have the common courtesy to mention in the patch notes.
Yeah, of course, if Cryptic wanted to end the discussion, they could also just post something explaining why this decision was made and what the ramifications are going forward.
If they don't know what they are going to do about this issue, they could just post something that says "hey, yeah..we effed up. We will kick it around a little and let you know what we will do to un-eff this. Stay tuned. Thanks."
or they can continue to remain silent, in which case all we are left to assume is that it is indeed....
working as intended.
Huzzah!
PWE would far prefer players not hit their dil cap as easily or on as many chars, and use the doffgrinder and doffbreaker to get doffs for SBs, which consumes more dil and drives further purchases of Zpoints for the DL exchange.
It's greed plain and simple. The SB system is more than adequate as what it was intended to be, a massive resource sink to drive Zstore purchases and a mechanism designed to drive fleet bullying to make further purchases, but that wasn't good enough for PWE, whose admins are apparently willing to sacrifice game elegance and functionality to squeeze a few more bucks out of the playerbase.
True. But in MMOs, you will always have people spending 20h a day, hardly sleeping and feeding themselves to achieve something. It there was a well known infinite doff generator, you can be sure that there would be people trying to generate infinite amounts of doffs. You might think it would be a good thing. You may also consider that buying doff packs keeps the servers running and pays the wages of people working on the game.
Several ways to break the doff market and system were existing before this patch, but they have limits, and people who know them don't abuse them like crazy so that balance can be preserved, and everyone is happy with that.
Again I'm not saying that the devs are always right, they often make bad decisions (as everyone does), I'm just looking for the most acceptable solution for everyone, players and game owners. That's the way to maximize your chance to get changes: ask for something they can give you, not for what you really want.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I initially thought it was tied to dilithium, too. But then isn't just removing the dilithium reward for dismissing the fleet doff a good enough solution?
Im just angry for the people who have will spend thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of ECs on DOffs to use on projects, and find when they try (and fail) to donate this DOff to their project, because theres no way of telling between a fleet and regular DOff on the exchange.
Im angry on behalf of the members of my fleet (and Im sure, many others) who have spent hard-earned fleet credits on DOffs that are now worth a lot less than they were 6 hours ago.
Im angry, that theres been no clarification or official word from Cryptic about this issue.
Im angry, that this massive change wasnt even mentioned on the latest Patch Notes, or those for Tribble when it was tested.
But what makes me most angry of all, is when this was reported for being a potential bug, the only answer we got was a glib "Working as intended" from Cryptic.
Thats not just a gameplay error. Its not even a loss of time, or resources. Hell, its not even the inconvenience it has, and will cause to tens of thousands of people...
...its the fact that it was brushed off with a glib three-word official response.
So, please excuse any offense I may have caused. Its nothing compared to what this issue is causing, and will cause, a lot of people in this game.
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
That issue isn't resolved if you can still transfer fleet doffs to regular doffs. Besides, that also doesn't require you to prevent their use in fleet projects.
By the way, the anger over this will undoubtedly cause them to fix the fleet doff to regular doff conversion, not restore fleet doffs for use on fleet projects.
Join Date: Sept 2008
"Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't give them to patients." - The Doctor
With all the DIL that is easily available in game as it is, they could have simply removed the DIL value of the DOFFs when dismissed. Hell they could do this right across the board and they would be justified in doing so.
If what you suggest is the motivation, and they have said nothing so far, then there was a far simpler solution at hand.
What they have done however just seems very amaturish, ham-handed, and impulsive.
Also, I'm up almost 1m ec on this after only 20 minutes. I've noticed some of the doffs I've been selling are being relisted at lower prices.
N.B. Ive just tested this, and it works. If you buy 5 Fleet Common DOffs, "boil" them up to one Uncommon (Green) DOff, then break it back down to 3 Common DOffs, these DOffs work as normal.
Still, it means you're spending 2,500 Fleet Credits on three white officers, not to mention the time and dilithium involved in boiling/breaking them all. A fair chunk, when a fleet ship needs 20,000
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
This is a dishonest and manipulative PWE sock puppet argument.
First off, no, extra revenue doesn't go to "pay the wages of people working on the game" or "keep the servers up". Any revenue past expenditures is pure profit and goes into the pockets of the owners. And it is maxmizing that profit that is their goal. Such is the nature of business.
The dishonest argument to the effect that giving corps money does some good for sympathetic people is a stock argument used by sock puppets for pretty much every video game company out there.
Second, the bit about "20 hours a day" is a strawman aimed at making the reader blame the "no lifers" for the situation and not the devs and producers who made the call. Again, this is a common cheap shot used by sock puppets.
Third, you talk about "ways to break the doff system" and "limits", but this is totally dishonest, because the fleet doffs were resource-negative and bottlenecked by the supply of fleet marks and project timers.
Your intent is to imply that it was an unlimited spigot of doffs that has now been shunted, this is completely untrue. So why even make the untrue claim? You seem to have no other point in doing so other than to advocate players giving PWE $$$ for doffpacks.
Finally, the close of your argument is a petty and insincere attempt to sound reasonable and honest when you are nothing of the sort. You mention that devs "sometimes" make bad decisions, trying to imply this is not one of those occasions when clearly it is, without arguing against that obvious fact.
You are looking out for PWE and only PWE, proof being you are misrepresenting the facts and seem to have no recurrent theme to what you say other than advocating giving them $$$.