Don't allow fleet doffs to be sold on the Exchange.
That said, I could see where doffs on the Exchange could be used as an exploit to gather more Dilithium than a player could earn otherwise -- if they could be dismissed for Dilithium, you could buy up any number of doffs and churn through them.
What I am wondering about is whether fleet doffs can be fed to the doff cruncher?
I suspect not, but not really wanting to experiment with it to find out the hard way.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Are you serious? So on the exchange, I purchased a fleet doff, which had NO value for the fleet project - and they have not provided a mechanism to identify this?
I'd be well.. not OK with it.. but at least understanding of it IF:
A) Cryptic actually gives us a reasonable and logical explanation as to WHY this happened (My guess is fleets were advancing faster than they expected..)
We were able to tell the difference between the fleet req doffs and regular doffs from anywhere else
"Working as intended" is not an explanation or description of the situation, simply letting us no that they intentionally stealth'd this into the patch, hoping nobody would notice, without any apparent reason other than to enrage the community at large.
However these doffs highly resemble those obtained from the reinforcements duty officer pack and off hand I can not think of a way to distinguish them from reinforcement pack doffs also posted on the exchange.
I have studied this and bought and sold doffs ..... one thing is sure the common resolve doffs are not base doffs and can be used in base projects. Still in testing ....... ...... ......
Today's patch removed the ability to contribute fleet doffs to starbase projects. This was not included in the patch notes but in response to a bug report we did get a working as intended post.
It's going well. When people are finding they can't use the doffs they've bought they're relisting them at a lower price. Watch the doff market collapse in comic fashion.
However these doffs highly resemble those obtained from the reinforcements duty officer pack and off hand I can not think of a way to distinguish them from reinforcement pack doffs also posted on the exchange.
I have studied this and bought and sold doffs ..... one thing is sure the common resolve doffs are not base doffs and can be used in base projects. Still in testing ....... ...... ......
I thought the fleet doffs all had resolve. Have to double check that.
Why not just make the fleet doffs bound? Would solve the exchange issue.
_____________________
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's going well. When people are finding they can't use the doffs they've bought they're relisting them at a lower price. Watch the doff market collapse in comic fashion.
Well the market already collapsed.
The only safe buy is the doff packs (you can find them under reward packs on the exchange) and greens you ungrind for now.
Seems plausible given the current situation. There's probably still going to be some fun on the exchange for a while as a number of weekend players turn up and buy doffs not realising what's happened.
Wait, so the DOFF's you buy with Fleet Credits can no longer be contributed to starbases? Then what is the point of having these doffs? I thought that was the whole point of adding them because there weren't enough ways to get white doffs.
So we're back to either paying real money for DOFF packs or slowly getting the 15 freebies from the recruitment missions every four days? And now we can't even safely buy them off the Exchange?
i know what happened and why it was let through and why its "working as intended".
when they changed the specifics of what a fleet duty officer becomes when its dismissed- the no xp or dil, this changed the back end code of what this kind of duty officer is.
remember when the escort carrier class was introduced and it couldnt be used in stfs because it didnt meet requirments?
this is what happened to the fleet duty officers.
so they are in fact no longer "duty officers" for the purpose of donations like they were before, they are now "fleet duty officers". this is all on the back end.
the front end which we see hasnt gotten any visual updates so they still appear to be "duty officers" while in fact they are actually "fleet duty officers".
the reason they cant be donated to fleet projects is because those require "duty officers", not "fleet duty officers".
the reason they can be sold on the exchange is because the exchange only shows the front end of what is there, not the back end.
they either completely forgot that changing the fleet duty officers from "duty officers" to "fleet duty officers" would exempt them from projects that have a requirement of "duty offciers".
the reason they can still be boiled is because to combine duty officers the requirements are probably "all non dilithium bought duty officers" (if im not mistaken this isnt even an issue because there are no common white duty officers that can be bought with dilithium).
so it all boilds down to this....
they were lazy in segragating the fleet duty officers by making them not give any rewards when dismissed, with the result of them then being useless for contributing to starbases because they are in fact no longer the duty officer kind needed for the projects.
then when zero said that this is all "working as intended" its a nice simple coverup that they didnt foresee this result happening so the simpliest anwser to give us... is that its "working as intended".
which is true. with the changes implimented it is all working as the coding is intended to work.
the real quesiton is why they left this out of the patch notes when it was pointed out, then confirmed by the community on tribble then verified by a dev. YET left out of the notes.
While I don't agree with some of your description there are some valid points. Fleet doffs look like doffs but aren't. They don't seem aware of the cost that goes into obtaining fleet credits, and that there's not much worth spending the credits on. Given that there are only a couple of ships and some ship/ground gear that I like most of my fleet credits will end up worthless.
When they added FC to doffs this actually gave me a reason to focus on fleet credits and it gave a shot in the arm to fleet projects. I could have sold the doffs on the exchange for ec but instead I put them in fleet projects and mashed up some of the useless ones for a limited amount of dil. The opportunity cost to me of putting them into fleet projects is that I could have sold them for a significant amount. The funny thing is they actually had it right the way it was, and they've broken the system for some bizarre ill-conceived idea.
Perhaps if they discussed the issues they were having people could have suggested some ideas. One of the ideas in there might have worked, unlike what they did in this patch. There was also no reason to do this as a stealth change. Nothing about this change makes any rational sense.
e: One thing I think they could be concerned about is the white doff to fleet credit effective rebate. That's a downward spiral even with fleet credit boost running. The fleet credits for white doffs is already disproportionately low. Going from 500 fc to 150 fc does not form a positive feedback loop that would lead to infinite doffs or other game breaking features.
There are also fleet projects and fleet store items which are one use-one event items that are worthless at their current prices. There's other stuff that should be rebalanced so that people actually buy them. There's a serious issue of the perception of the value of fleet credits at this time. They should be looking at the cause of the problem rather than fluff around on the surface.
they can be crunched...what it boils down to is: buy 5 common doffs for 2500 FC...or on the exchange, then make a uncommon one...which u just exchange for 3 common again, that can be used for SB projects.
before it was: 2500 FC gave you 5 common doffs for SB projects now it is 2500 for 3 + a lot of paperwork
essentially...they are more expensive than before.
what is however most disturbing, is the fact that NO information about this was given in the patch notes.
is cryptic a company where the right hand does not know what the left hand does? So it seems...or do they deliberately misinform customers/playerbase? I give them the bonus of the doubt and say they do not talk alot to each other about game changes...
I have noticed prices going back up - they have not reversed this silliness have they? I have all projects on CD so I can't check
No. What's happened is that more people have logged in and started buying doffs without realising a stealth change has occurred. I'm expecting this to cycle for most of the next week. Thus I'm forced to cash in (dump) as many fleet credits as possible before they're worthless.
i know what happened and why it was let through and why its "working as intended".
when they changed the specifics of what a fleet duty officer becomes when its dismissed- the no xp or dil, this changed the back end code of what this kind of duty officer is.
remember when the escort carrier class was introduced and it couldnt be used in stfs because it didnt meet requirments?
this is what happened to the fleet duty officers.
so they are in fact no longer "duty officers" for the purpose of donations like they were before, they are now "fleet duty officers". this is all on the back end.
the front end which we see hasnt gotten any visual updates so they still appear to be "duty officers" while in fact they are actually "fleet duty officers".
the reason they cant be donated to fleet projects is because those require "duty officers", not "fleet duty officers".
the reason they can be sold on the exchange is because the exchange only shows the front end of what is there, not the back end.
they either completely forgot that changing the fleet duty officers from "duty officers" to "fleet duty officers" would exempt them from projects that have a requirement of "duty offciers".
the reason they can still be boiled is because to combine duty officers the requirements are probably "all non dilithium bought duty officers" (if im not mistaken this isnt even an issue because there are no common white duty officers that can be bought with dilithium).
so it all boilds down to this....
they were lazy in segragating the fleet duty officers by making them not give any rewards when dismissed, with the result of them then being useless for contributing to starbases because they are in fact no longer the duty officer kind needed for the projects.
then when zero said that this is all "working as intended" its a nice simple coverup that they didnt foresee this result happening so the simpliest anwser to give us... is that its "working as intended".
which is true. with the changes implimented it is all working as the coding is intended to work.
the real quesiton is why they left this out of the patch notes when it was pointed out, then confirmed by the community on tribble then verified by a dev. YET left out of the notes.
yeah i could agree with that assasement...if it wasn't for the "working as intended" statement. That made things clear that it is as it should be in the first place, even if the patchnotes do not reflect that change in any way.
so whats it now, for us...what is true? what is wrong? it's not like they didn't test it on tribble, and people pointed that mistake out. There was still time to fix that.
Point Form
?s
*Why are Fleet Doffs being sold on exchange and unusable in base projects?
*Why was no warning provided about this "genius design" that was so well thought out...
*Will there be a change to this?
*Can we at least please be able to tell the difference when buying DOFFs on the exchange? People use the exchange to supply base projects for what they need... they pay amply for what they DO need and should be able to USE what they buy. This is a SICK joke if this happens with very rare expensive doffs... x.x
There's my feedback. Looking for any answers please/thanks. Yes it is apparent I'm not happy. Just want to figure this stuff out that's all. I'd request no one post unless they have some sort of an idea to some of these questions/gripes.
In regards to the ongoing concerns surrounding the current PATCH as relates to the changes made to Fleet Doffs..... could you say something / ANYTHING? At least acknowledge you are aware of our concerns.
So far the only response came yesterday, "working as intended". That clearly, in light of the player base response seen in the forums today, is not enough. Beyond that the only others actions have been the community mods closing, merging, and moving threads.
Are we of so little value to you?
Will it take us moving our time and Money somewhere else to illicit a response?
This is the right place to discuss it. It's not ignored it's just they're trying to figure out how to deal with this. Given that they appear to have had no idea of the consequences they will first have to understand what they did and why it's so damaging to the doff market and perception of value of fleet credits.
They probably don't realise is that the doff sink that they'd made will now no longer function. They should be happy that players were actually using the fleet credits for something given that they have very little value, even when you have a tier 2 or tier 3 starbase.
Okay the previous thread got trolled down but the issue is still there.
In few words: after todays patch doffs that you can get from starbase are not usable in starbase mission. Yet they look, walk and quack absolutely the same as the normal doffs.
And they also tradeable on exchange.
Which is frankly creating a bit of an issue right now, cause you can buy sensor doff for 500k and find out that it's not usable for it's intended purpose. Read "you can not feed it to sb project".
I also believe this belongs in the general community feedback. Because well I am a member of general community. And the general community should be aware of such issue. And General Community clearly expressed its outrage (available here for those who are curious http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=363891
)
The cryptic representative response in the patch notes tread was "This is working as intended". Available here:
And as a member of general community and also a paying customer I do believe that this was done in error, and certainly hope that this will be fix as soon as possible. Because frankly it is killing the exchange system completely.
Also I would kindly request all posters in the thread to keep the tread civilised because trolling won't solve an issue and most likely will make the tread to a trashbin.
I think this thread does need to be here. There are a lot of players that have no way of knowing about the significant change that will hurt them in their ec wallet. Of course I'm taking advantage of that knowledge and dumping useless doffs for profit before my fleet credits become worthless.
The change is so significant that it should have been published in the patch notes rather than concealed when buying doffs from the exchange is an everyday activity. The Devs should have had some consideration for the poor GMs that are going to have to deal with a flood of tickets that this will generate.
I would actually disagree that this is the right place to discuss this issue. As it impacts the starbase system and the exchange more than the actual doff system. And a higher percentage of the community than warrants all threads being stuck in a lower traffic area.
I am also disappointed about the lack of response beyond a short working as intended. By this point in the day it really comes across as just ignoring / avoiding an issue.
My question is WHY? Seriously, other than SB projects... who really needs Common Doffs? This was a huge bonus to small fleets... and even medium fleets whose resources have begun to thin....
While I don't agree with some of your description there are some valid points. Fleet doffs look like doffs but aren't. They don't seem aware of the cost that goes into obtaining fleet credits, and that there's not much worth spending the credits on. Given that there are only a couple of ships and some ship/ground gear that I like most of my fleet credits will end up worthless.
When they added FC to doffs this actually gave me a reason to focus on fleet credits and it gave a shot in the arm to fleet projects. I could have sold the doffs on the exchange for ec but instead I put them in fleet projects and mashed up some of the useless ones for a limited amount of dil. The opportunity cost to me of putting them into fleet projects is that I could have sold them for a significant amount. The funny thing is they actually had it right the way it was, and they've broken the system for some bizarre ill-conceived idea.
Perhaps if they discussed the issues they were having people could have suggested some ideas. One of the ideas in there might have worked, unlike what they did in this patch. There was also no reason to do this as a stealth change. Nothing about this change makes any rational sense.
e: One thing I think they could be concerned about is the white doff to fleet credit effective rebate. That's a downward spiral even with fleet credit boost running. The fleet credits for white doffs is already disproportionately low. Going from 500 fc to 150 fc does not form a positive feedback loop that would lead to infinite doffs or other game breaking features.
There are also fleet projects and fleet store items which are one use-one event items that are worthless at their current prices. There's other stuff that should be rebalanced so that people actually buy them. There's a serious issue of the perception of the value of fleet credits at this time. They should be looking at the cause of the problem rather than fluff around on the surface.
FYI 500 fleet credits cost 10 fleetmarks only. This is the weak point of the system, it's not doff rewarding fleet credits. This means one doff every 4 minutes with a good team. A good 5 man team farming fleetmarks can get 75 in an hour. A lot more than the academy stuff.
They did something right (adding the FC for doffs), so they decided that it worked too well and had to nerf it. TBH I can't actually understand what they were trying to do.
Comments
Allow fleet doffs to be used in projects, OR
Don't allow fleet doffs to be sold on the Exchange.
That said, I could see where doffs on the Exchange could be used as an exploit to gather more Dilithium than a player could earn otherwise -- if they could be dismissed for Dilithium, you could buy up any number of doffs and churn through them.
What I am wondering about is whether fleet doffs can be fed to the doff cruncher?
I suspect not, but not really wanting to experiment with it to find out the hard way.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
That's working as intended.
A) Cryptic actually gives us a reasonable and logical explanation as to WHY this happened (My guess is fleets were advancing faster than they expected..)
"Working as intended" is not an explanation or description of the situation, simply letting us no that they intentionally stealth'd this into the patch, hoping nobody would notice, without any apparent reason other than to enrage the community at large.
Buy it.
Then dismiss it.
If you get recruitment xp and dilithium, you could have used it in the fleet project.
If you get nothing, then it was a useless Fleet Doff.
Working as intended!
Or you could just buy c-store Doffs...not that there is anything like a motive to push you that direction or anything by Cryptic...oh no......
I have studied this and bought and sold doffs ..... one thing is sure the common resolve doffs are not base doffs and can be used in base projects. Still in testing ....... ...... ......
It's going well. When people are finding they can't use the doffs they've bought they're relisting them at a lower price. Watch the doff market collapse in comic fashion.
I thought the fleet doffs all had resolve. Have to double check that.
Why not just make the fleet doffs bound? Would solve the exchange issue.
Come join the 44th Fleet.
startrek.44thfleet.com[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Well the market already collapsed.
The only safe buy is the doff packs (you can find them under reward packs on the exchange) and greens you ungrind for now.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
It was fun feeding it on the way down but I had to head to work. I'll be interested to see what the prices are like this weekend.
Well expect 20k or so for white doffs. 5 whites should match the average price of one green.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
So we're back to either paying real money for DOFF packs or slowly getting the 15 freebies from the recruitment missions every four days? And now we can't even safely buy them off the Exchange?
when they changed the specifics of what a fleet duty officer becomes when its dismissed- the no xp or dil, this changed the back end code of what this kind of duty officer is.
remember when the escort carrier class was introduced and it couldnt be used in stfs because it didnt meet requirments?
this is what happened to the fleet duty officers.
so they are in fact no longer "duty officers" for the purpose of donations like they were before, they are now "fleet duty officers". this is all on the back end.
the front end which we see hasnt gotten any visual updates so they still appear to be "duty officers" while in fact they are actually "fleet duty officers".
the reason they cant be donated to fleet projects is because those require "duty officers", not "fleet duty officers".
the reason they can be sold on the exchange is because the exchange only shows the front end of what is there, not the back end.
they either completely forgot that changing the fleet duty officers from "duty officers" to "fleet duty officers" would exempt them from projects that have a requirement of "duty offciers".
the reason they can still be boiled is because to combine duty officers the requirements are probably "all non dilithium bought duty officers" (if im not mistaken this isnt even an issue because there are no common white duty officers that can be bought with dilithium).
so it all boilds down to this....
they were lazy in segragating the fleet duty officers by making them not give any rewards when dismissed, with the result of them then being useless for contributing to starbases because they are in fact no longer the duty officer kind needed for the projects.
then when zero said that this is all "working as intended" its a nice simple coverup that they didnt foresee this result happening so the simpliest anwser to give us... is that its "working as intended".
which is true. with the changes implimented it is all working as the coding is intended to work.
the real quesiton is why they left this out of the patch notes when it was pointed out, then confirmed by the community on tribble then verified by a dev. YET left out of the notes.
When they added FC to doffs this actually gave me a reason to focus on fleet credits and it gave a shot in the arm to fleet projects. I could have sold the doffs on the exchange for ec but instead I put them in fleet projects and mashed up some of the useless ones for a limited amount of dil. The opportunity cost to me of putting them into fleet projects is that I could have sold them for a significant amount. The funny thing is they actually had it right the way it was, and they've broken the system for some bizarre ill-conceived idea.
Perhaps if they discussed the issues they were having people could have suggested some ideas. One of the ideas in there might have worked, unlike what they did in this patch. There was also no reason to do this as a stealth change. Nothing about this change makes any rational sense.
e: One thing I think they could be concerned about is the white doff to fleet credit effective rebate. That's a downward spiral even with fleet credit boost running. The fleet credits for white doffs is already disproportionately low. Going from 500 fc to 150 fc does not form a positive feedback loop that would lead to infinite doffs or other game breaking features.
There are also fleet projects and fleet store items which are one use-one event items that are worthless at their current prices. There's other stuff that should be rebalanced so that people actually buy them. There's a serious issue of the perception of the value of fleet credits at this time. They should be looking at the cause of the problem rather than fluff around on the surface.
before it was: 2500 FC gave you 5 common doffs for SB projects now it is 2500 for 3 + a lot of paperwork
essentially...they are more expensive than before.
what is however most disturbing, is the fact that NO information about this was given in the patch notes.
is cryptic a company where the right hand does not know what the left hand does? So it seems...or do they deliberately misinform customers/playerbase? I give them the bonus of the doubt and say they do not talk alot to each other about game changes...
No. What's happened is that more people have logged in and started buying doffs without realising a stealth change has occurred. I'm expecting this to cycle for most of the next week. Thus I'm forced to cash in (dump) as many fleet credits as possible before they're worthless.
yeah i could agree with that assasement...if it wasn't for the "working as intended" statement. That made things clear that it is as it should be in the first place, even if the patchnotes do not reflect that change in any way.
so whats it now, for us...what is true? what is wrong? it's not like they didn't test it on tribble, and people pointed that mistake out. There was still time to fix that.
?s
*Why are Fleet Doffs being sold on exchange and unusable in base projects?
*Why was no warning provided about this "genius design" that was so well thought out...
*Will there be a change to this?
*Can we at least please be able to tell the difference when buying DOFFs on the exchange? People use the exchange to supply base projects for what they need... they pay amply for what they DO need and should be able to USE what they buy. This is a SICK joke if this happens with very rare expensive doffs... x.x
There's my feedback. Looking for any answers please/thanks. Yes it is apparent I'm not happy. Just want to figure this stuff out that's all. I'd request no one post unless they have some sort of an idea to some of these questions/gripes.
In regards to the ongoing concerns surrounding the current PATCH as relates to the changes made to Fleet Doffs..... could you say something / ANYTHING? At least acknowledge you are aware of our concerns.
So far the only response came yesterday, "working as intended". That clearly, in light of the player base response seen in the forums today, is not enough. Beyond that the only others actions have been the community mods closing, merging, and moving threads.
Are we of so little value to you?
Will it take us moving our time and Money somewhere else to illicit a response?
Please?:(
This is the official response.
Enjoy the game!!!
Not even 5 minutes and this was moved too. If onlythey could be as on top of other, more pressing concerns. Damn.
They probably don't realise is that the doff sink that they'd made will now no longer function. They should be happy that players were actually using the fleet credits for something given that they have very little value, even when you have a tier 2 or tier 3 starbase.
In few words: after todays patch doffs that you can get from starbase are not usable in starbase mission. Yet they look, walk and quack absolutely the same as the normal doffs.
And they also tradeable on exchange.
Which is frankly creating a bit of an issue right now, cause you can buy sensor doff for 500k and find out that it's not usable for it's intended purpose. Read "you can not feed it to sb project".
I also believe this belongs in the general community feedback. Because well I am a member of general community. And the general community should be aware of such issue. And General Community clearly expressed its outrage (available here for those who are curious
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=363891
)
The cryptic representative response in the patch notes tread was "This is working as intended". Available here:
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=5396211&postcount=20
And as a member of general community and also a paying customer I do believe that this was done in error, and certainly hope that this will be fix as soon as possible. Because frankly it is killing the exchange system completely.
Also I would kindly request all posters in the thread to keep the tread civilised because trolling won't solve an issue and most likely will make the tread to a trashbin.
Sincerely yours
abc.
The change is so significant that it should have been published in the patch notes rather than concealed when buying doffs from the exchange is an everyday activity. The Devs should have had some consideration for the poor GMs that are going to have to deal with a flood of tickets that this will generate.
I am also disappointed about the lack of response beyond a short working as intended. By this point in the day it really comes across as just ignoring / avoiding an issue.
Is it intentional?
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
FYI 500 fleet credits cost 10 fleetmarks only. This is the weak point of the system, it's not doff rewarding fleet credits. This means one doff every 4 minutes with a good team. A good 5 man team farming fleetmarks can get 75 in an hour. A lot more than the academy stuff.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Don't fix what's not broken.