The community is starting to very much feel like PWE does not care about it's player base. There are only a few ways we can voice our concerns, here in these forums, or by simply not spending anymore money or time.
Petition threads are against the rules, but you're welcome to have a discussion about the issue.
Thanks
syberghost
Community Moderator for the STO Forums
I don't have a problem with the rules, I do have a problem with them being vague. If a man starts a thread and he has a bunch of people posting in agreement, then eventually the thread could be considered a petition. Besides any of that, there doesn't seem to be enough forum users to generate more than 100 or so signatures.
Back on topic though, I asked Branflakes and Borticus on twitter yesterday to at the very least explain the intent behind the changes. I asked on the tribble release notes forum. Now I am asking here.
The reason I ask about the intent is that the way this change was structured there is going to be a huge side effect of confusing and frustrating players. Unless the intent was to confuse and frustrate your userbase, I think this was a bad change to make.
How is it going to confuse and frustrate people? Simply put, there are no adequate filters on the exchange to filter out these new duty officers that can't be donated to fleet projects. So if even 10% of the people that were purchasing enough of them to warrant changing them continue to do so in a batch of 20, 30, 80, 100 or however many they were buying, well... then they're just going to be sitting in their roster getting state. Some percentage of them are then going to post them on the exchange.
That, that is when it is going to start making people angry. There is no way to differentiate between the fleet doffs and non-fleet doffs. They don't bind like ferra's do, they don't have any special attributes, nothing. So people are going to buy them, and then they won't be able to use them for... well, unless they were buying them for the effect but that so rarely happens.
BUT, since I have to guess what the intent was... and I hate guessing, I'd wager that the point of the change was to prevent the larger fleets from being able to go purchase doffs and donate them at a rate that made their fleet projects fill up quickly.
The problem there is that the solution they went with was... probably the worst one of the bunch.
They could have removed the common boxes all together and gated them by offering 5 of them as a reward from the officer of the watch quest that nobody does because it only rewards 5 fleet marks.
They could have added in an additional fleet mark cost when purchasing them (5/10/25/75) and that would have slowed down.
There were a ton of options for gating those with either resources or content. Instead Cryptic spent extra man hours making them worthless on the exchange and potentially destabilized ever non-civilian duty officer category on the exchange. I would still really like to know just what the intent was here.
President of the Amnian Illithid Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Please spread the word that the term "Mind Flayer" is a derogatory term to our kind.
I could be wrong here, but basic fed doff pack cost 300 zen (let's say 3 buks) and gives 5 doffs of random quality/specialty. Having opened 10 such packs the other day I got 50 doffs: say 3 blues, 5 greens, the rest is white. Now here's the kicker:
ONLY ONE SECURITY SPECIALTY DOFF out of 50 doffs/10 packs.
That's one security doff for 30 buks. I got 2 sensor doffs too but that's beside the point.
I assume we will never see the stats on how good the doff packs are selling, but you tell me, given the experience outlined above if you need 30 security doffs are you going to spend real money on doff packs?
Ive just gone and tested the Boil and Break using 5 common Fleet DOffs.
This DOES still work, have just done it. Boil up 5 Fleet Commons into 1 Green, and break that green into 3 Whites (which are unbound and "normal").
Still, this means that you're spending 2500 Fleet Credits on 3 White DOffs, and the time/effort spent in having to do it on a large scale for big projects too...
Man, why don't you just type "moved out of general discussion so it will hopefully quietly die unnoticed by the vast majority of the community this effects...."?
We all are going to assume thats why its moved. The devs are just as capable of clicking on "todays posts" as the rest of us are.
By that logic, we'd just have one massive categroy for the entire forums. Why bother organizing anything at all? :P
Understood and I apologise. The problem is those discussions get heated and messages get lost, while those with the power and/or authority to address our concerns get tired of reading thru the rhetoric and just move on.
The community is starting to very much feel like PWE does not care about it's player base. There are only a few ways we can voice our concerns, here in these forums, or by simply not spending anymore money or time.
Guess which way I'll be voicing mine going forward?
Fair enough, but before you jump ship, let's wait to see what the explanation is. I'd like to see what their reasoning is too. Is it to prevent some sort of exploit? To me, just as most people in this thread, it seems counter-intuitive to the system. If one wants to submit SB Doffs into SB projects, it seems like it would just be paying for SB projects with...
Oh, I see...
I wonder if the profit in Fleet Marks for submitting an SB Doff > The cost in Fleet Marks for buying the SB Doff in the first place. Yes, if so, that would be a major exploit. Any other work-arounds besides disallowing them from use in SB projects? I'd have to think about that...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
I wonder if the profit in Fleet Marks for submitting an SB Doff > The cost in Fleet Marks for buying the SB Doff in the first place. Yes, if so, that would be a major exploit. Any other work-arounds besides disallowing them from use in SB projects? I'd have to think about that...
Cost of a Common Fleet DOff (random) - 500 Fleet Credit
Cost of a Common Fleet DOff (Eng, Sci or Tac) - 750 Fleet Credits
Reward for donating a Common DOff - 150 Fleet Credits.
I fail to see how that is an exploit, if Im losing 350-600 Fleet Credits per DOff just to help level my own starbase...
By that logic, we'd just have one massive categroy for the entire forums. Why bother organizing anything at all? :P
Fair enough, but before you jump ship, let's wait to see what the explanation is. I'd like to see what their reasoning is too. Is it to prevent some sort of exploit? To me, just as most people in this thread, it seems counter-intuitive to the system. If one wants to submit SB Doffs into SB projects, it seems like it would just be paying for SB projects with...
Oh, I see...
I wonder if the profit in Fleet Marks for submitting an SB Doff > The cost in Fleet Marks for buying the SB Doff in the first place. Yes, if so, that would be a major exploit. Any other work-arounds besides disallowing them from use in SB projects? I'd have to think about that...
a common fleet doff cost 500 fleet creds. Submit him for a project and you earn 150. Not exactly a net gain there leading to an exploit that I see.
And if this is the only reason they did this, then the obvious freaking solution was to raise the cost of the common fleet doff to offset the mark payout if you used it in a project.
Considering the vast majority of Fleet DOFF awarded were spce/ground warfare specialists which aren't useable on projects, this argument really doesn't go anywhere....
a common fleet doff cost 500 fleet creds. Submit him for a project and you earn 150. Not exactly a net gain there leading to an exploit that I see.
And if this is the only reason they did this, then the obvious freaking solution was to raise the cost of the common fleet doff to offset the mark payout if you used it in a project.
Considering the vast majority of Fleet DOFF awarded were spce/ground warfare specialists which aren't useable on projects, this argument really doesn't go anywhere....
They have a very interesting use: the grinder. It's magic. You should give a try.
So they are definitely usefull. It's not a removal of the feature, it's just a nerf.
By that logic, we'd just have one massive categroy for the entire forums. Why bother organizing anything at all? :P
Fair enough, but before you jump ship, let's wait to see what the explanation is. I'd like to see what their reasoning is too. Is it to prevent some sort of exploit? To me, just as most people in this thread, it seems counter-intuitive to the system. If one wants to submit SB Doffs into SB projects, it seems like it would just be paying for SB projects with...
Oh, I see...
I wonder if the profit in Fleet Marks for submitting an SB Doff > The cost in Fleet Marks for buying the SB Doff in the first place. Yes, if so, that would be a major exploit. Any other work-arounds besides disallowing them from use in SB projects? I'd have to think about that...
Hmmmmm I see where you are going there. I deal with people problem, not math, in the real world so I can speak intelligently on this. Won't stop me from speaking to what I do THINK I know though
A single white Fleet Doff costs 500 Fleet Credits
A single Fleet Credit = 1 Dilithium
One Fleet Mark = 50 Fleet Credits
So one Fleet Doff effectively costs 10 Fleet Marks.
When you contribute a non-civillian DOFF you get 150 Fleet Credits which is equal to 3 Fleet Marks.
My Brain hurts... someone else take over please......!!!
The duty officers you tried to put in are working as intended. Today's patch means that doffs that originated from the personal officer cannot be put into projects. However, they can be sold on the exchange with no way of knowing.
I recommend submitting a ticket explaining the situation you are in, and point out that they have deliberately destroyed the entire doff market. Also, ask that the person who made the decision be fired.
They have a very interesting use: the grinder. It's magic. You should give a try.
So they are definitely usefull. It's not a removal of the feature, it's just a nerf.
go to eta erandi, go to fleet base, buys doffs, leave fleet base, go to sirius, go to sol, go to SFA, do upgrade fleet doffs to green mission, do downgrade green doff back to white mission, leave sfa, go to sirius, go to eta erandi......
oh yeah, thats magical alright. Magically TRIBBLE and a huge waste of time. But you keep on defending it, buddy. You DOFF your little heart out.
I'd prefer they just fix the problem they created by either rasing the prices of the fleet doffs or marking them as recognizably un-usable.
Cost of a Common Fleet DOff (random) - 500 Fleet Credit
Cost of a Common Fleet DOff (Eng, Sci or Tac) - 750 Fleet Credits
Reward for donating a Common DOff - 150 Fleet Credits.
I fail to see how that is an exploit, if Im losing 350-600 Fleet Credits per DOff just to help level my own starbase...
Thanks for the info. My fleet didn't have any projects requiring DOffs (save for one that requires a purple Doctor I don't have), so I couldn't bounce numbers personally.
Then my only guess is that they don't want anyone doing it at a discount? But like I said, an official explanation sure would be nice.
Thanks for the info. My fleet didn't have any projects requiring DOffs (save for one that requires a purple Doctor I don't have), so I couldn't bounce numbers personally.
Then my only guess is that they don't want anyone doing it at a discount? But like I said, an official explanation sure would be nice.
ha. Think we already got the official explanation yesterday when this was initially reported as a bug......
go to eta erandi, go to fleet base, buys doffs, leave fleet base, go to sirius, go to sol, go to SFA, do upgrade fleet doffs to green mission, do downgrade fleet doffs back to white mission, leave sfa, go to sirius, go to eta erandi......
oh yeah, thats magical alright. Magically TRIBBLE and a huge waste of time. But you keep on defending it, buddy. You DOFF your little heart out.
I'd prefer they just fix the problem they created by either rasing the prices of the fleet doffs or marking them as recognizably un-usable.
Huzzah...working as intended.
^^^^DAS!!! They need to quit wasting band-aids on the problems they created in the first place.
ISSUE: Need Common DOFFS for projects, but they are hard to come by.
BAND-AID: Fleet DOFFS now available, apparently without thought or testing as to how this will affect either the economy and/or base progression.
ISSUE: (The reason for the next band aid has not yet actualy been given, we can only assume that it was working as intended, but someone else now has other intentions)
BAND-AID: NERF Fleet DOFFS so that they can now NOT be used for the reason the much of the STO community believed they were intended, again without thought or testing as to how this will effect the economy and/or base progression.
We are all a bunch of monkeys behind a bunch of typewritters, and they are hoping against hope that somehow thru all of this we will collectively.... well you get the idea.:rolleyes:
^^^^DAS!!! They need to quit wasting band-aids on the problems they created in the first place.
ISSUE: Need Common DOFFS for projects, but they are hard to come by.
BAND-AID: Fleet DOFFS now available, appaerntly without thought or testing as to how this will affect the either the economy and/or base progression.
ISSUE: (The reason for the next band aid has not yet actualy been given, we can only assume that it was working as intended, but somelese now has other intentions)
BAND-AID: NERF Fleet DOFFS so that they can now NOT be used for the reason the enitre community thought they were intended, again without thought or testing as to how this will effect the economy and/or base progression.
We are all a bunch of monkeys behind a bunch of typewritters, and they are hoping against hope that somehow thru all of this we will collectively.... well you get the idea.:rolleyes:
That all of us monkeys will bang out on all those typewriters the lost Shakespeare play entitled....
"A Midsummers Night of Working as Intended Dream"....?
Comments
Working as intended :-)
I don't have a problem with the rules, I do have a problem with them being vague. If a man starts a thread and he has a bunch of people posting in agreement, then eventually the thread could be considered a petition. Besides any of that, there doesn't seem to be enough forum users to generate more than 100 or so signatures.
Back on topic though, I asked Branflakes and Borticus on twitter yesterday to at the very least explain the intent behind the changes. I asked on the tribble release notes forum. Now I am asking here.
The reason I ask about the intent is that the way this change was structured there is going to be a huge side effect of confusing and frustrating players. Unless the intent was to confuse and frustrate your userbase, I think this was a bad change to make.
How is it going to confuse and frustrate people? Simply put, there are no adequate filters on the exchange to filter out these new duty officers that can't be donated to fleet projects. So if even 10% of the people that were purchasing enough of them to warrant changing them continue to do so in a batch of 20, 30, 80, 100 or however many they were buying, well... then they're just going to be sitting in their roster getting state. Some percentage of them are then going to post them on the exchange.
That, that is when it is going to start making people angry. There is no way to differentiate between the fleet doffs and non-fleet doffs. They don't bind like ferra's do, they don't have any special attributes, nothing. So people are going to buy them, and then they won't be able to use them for... well, unless they were buying them for the effect but that so rarely happens.
BUT, since I have to guess what the intent was... and I hate guessing, I'd wager that the point of the change was to prevent the larger fleets from being able to go purchase doffs and donate them at a rate that made their fleet projects fill up quickly.
The problem there is that the solution they went with was... probably the worst one of the bunch.
They could have removed the common boxes all together and gated them by offering 5 of them as a reward from the officer of the watch quest that nobody does because it only rewards 5 fleet marks.
They could have added in an additional fleet mark cost when purchasing them (5/10/25/75) and that would have slowed down.
There were a ton of options for gating those with either resources or content. Instead Cryptic spent extra man hours making them worthless on the exchange and potentially destabilized ever non-civilian duty officer category on the exchange. I would still really like to know just what the intent was here.
I saw that coming
I dare say that with the advent of season 6 and Fleet Money Pits, PWE saw us coming too. :mad:
Hmmmm...I would say that is working as intended!
This DOES still work, have just done it. Boil up 5 Fleet Commons into 1 Green, and break that green into 3 Whites (which are unbound and "normal").
Still, this means that you're spending 2500 Fleet Credits on 3 White DOffs, and the time/effort spent in having to do it on a large scale for big projects too...
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
Fair enough, but before you jump ship, let's wait to see what the explanation is. I'd like to see what their reasoning is too. Is it to prevent some sort of exploit? To me, just as most people in this thread, it seems counter-intuitive to the system. If one wants to submit SB Doffs into SB projects, it seems like it would just be paying for SB projects with...
Oh, I see...
I wonder if the profit in Fleet Marks for submitting an SB Doff > The cost in Fleet Marks for buying the SB Doff in the first place. Yes, if so, that would be a major exploit. Any other work-arounds besides disallowing them from use in SB projects? I'd have to think about that...
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
Cost of a Common Fleet DOff (random) - 500 Fleet Credit
Cost of a Common Fleet DOff (Eng, Sci or Tac) - 750 Fleet Credits
Reward for donating a Common DOff - 150 Fleet Credits.
I fail to see how that is an exploit, if Im losing 350-600 Fleet Credits per DOff just to help level my own starbase...
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
I'm going to guess that perhaps this will drive prices down? Gah who knows. Their silence is deafening.
a common fleet doff cost 500 fleet creds. Submit him for a project and you earn 150. Not exactly a net gain there leading to an exploit that I see.
And if this is the only reason they did this, then the obvious freaking solution was to raise the cost of the common fleet doff to offset the mark payout if you used it in a project.
Considering the vast majority of Fleet DOFF awarded were spce/ground warfare specialists which aren't useable on projects, this argument really doesn't go anywhere....
My thoughts exactly. If they had done this by mistake, i would think there would be some sort of response by now.
Theyre either horrible at game design or horrible at CS.
Oh well, going to put a couple hundered fleet doffs on the exchange for lulz.
They have a very interesting use: the grinder. It's magic. You should give a try.
So they are definitely usefull. It's not a removal of the feature, it's just a nerf.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Hmmmmm I see where you are going there. I deal with people problem, not math, in the real world so I can speak intelligently on this. Won't stop me from speaking to what I do THINK I know though
A single white Fleet Doff costs 500 Fleet Credits
A single Fleet Credit = 1 Dilithium
One Fleet Mark = 50 Fleet Credits
So one Fleet Doff effectively costs 10 Fleet Marks.
When you contribute a non-civillian DOFF you get 150 Fleet Credits which is equal to 3 Fleet Marks.
My Brain hurts... someone else take over please......
nerf?... I call it "blows chunks"!
Sorry, my patience is starting to wane (not with you of course)
Thx
Delirium Tremens
Tier 4 Starbase, Tier 3 Embassy
http://dtfleet.com/
I recommend submitting a ticket explaining the situation you are in, and point out that they have deliberately destroyed the entire doff market. Also, ask that the person who made the decision be fired.
this is a game breaking issue, as those doffs are now on exchange and IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL if a doff is sb doff or not.
Doh!!!!!!!~:)
go to eta erandi, go to fleet base, buys doffs, leave fleet base, go to sirius, go to sol, go to SFA, do upgrade fleet doffs to green mission, do downgrade green doff back to white mission, leave sfa, go to sirius, go to eta erandi......
oh yeah, thats magical alright. Magically TRIBBLE and a huge waste of time. But you keep on defending it, buddy. You DOFF your little heart out.
I'd prefer they just fix the problem they created by either rasing the prices of the fleet doffs or marking them as recognizably un-usable.
Huzzah...working as intended.
Then my only guess is that they don't want anyone doing it at a discount? But like I said, an official explanation sure would be nice. Chillax sport :P This isn't a contest or debate; I'm just trying to figure it out as much as any other fleet member.
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
ha. Think we already got the official explanation yesterday when this was initially reported as a bug......
wait for it........
Working as intended!
You knew it was coming, right?
^^^^DAS!!! They need to quit wasting band-aids on the problems they created in the first place.
ISSUE: Need Common DOFFS for projects, but they are hard to come by.
BAND-AID: Fleet DOFFS now available, apparently without thought or testing as to how this will affect either the economy and/or base progression.
ISSUE: (The reason for the next band aid has not yet actualy been given, we can only assume that it was working as intended, but someone else now has other intentions)
BAND-AID: NERF Fleet DOFFS so that they can now NOT be used for the reason the much of the STO community believed they were intended, again without thought or testing as to how this will effect the economy and/or base progression.
We are all a bunch of monkeys behind a bunch of typewritters, and they are hoping against hope that somehow thru all of this we will collectively.... well you get the idea.:rolleyes:
everything is "WORKING AS INTENDED" - remember me I am Legend
That all of us monkeys will bang out on all those typewriters the lost Shakespeare play entitled....
"A Midsummers Night of Working as Intended Dream"....?
Bogle, in your signature, under the "Former Cardassian Oppressor", you need to add the line "Now Working as Intended".
You know it makes sense...
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
I'll see if I still have the file somewhere and add it in. Maybe add in Huzzah, too.
This is a feature, which is now Working as Intended...
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
I don't care how long you've been playing. I only care about how you play.
And remember to follow the rules.
Ninth Fleet - 20 years, from SFC2:EAW to STO and still going strong...
Resistance is futile.