But when you phase cloak ? you are still visible aren't you ? I do not have Karfi myself, but when I see them do it in PvP I just though they are "incorporeal" but still targetable.
The visiablity portion maybe dependant on aux etc. But, no you should be untargetable at that point, have no collision, and have a massive stealth bonus +serveral thousand. Also, the console can't be activated if you're TB'd or have no aux similarly to other cloaks.
Edit: Just tested, stealth range of ~92000 at lower aux and 96000 at higher aux. Again, the mine just kept on coming.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Did you try to run away to like 6km and see if the mine still targets you ? I mean if the problem is like it was on pets, that kept following you even if you were cloaked, or if the mines simply have high stealth detection.
A passive stealth detection worth like 150 sensor points should detect you at about 2,5km.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
The big issue being not many players have used mines effectively even before the revamp problem people are finding is that even before your revamp tricobalt mines were the strongest damaging projectile in the game.
The real issue is that most players do not carry counters for these such as grav well, faw, tbr, scramble sensors (red october method make it activate on its owner before it can activate on you). Also people can argue to till they are blue in the face but even 1 point of shielding on a facing also absorbs most of the damage anyways thats why I always keep distribute shields a keystroke nearby.
Its not really much of an I win ability though because of the fact that most of the quick non target shields functions have been taken out of play so its not as easy for someone to do a quick take out your shields and tricobalt you. I'd rather see people setup proper counters than complain of it as an easy win tactic.
Um a single torpedo or turret platform can overcome most of the mines on the map. And most of the times there is a carrier in the team, its pets can also deal with mines. Maybe an increase in the threat the mintes generate would make everyone happy.
While I'm very glad to hear that Mines have become more viable as primary kill tactics since the recent changes, we certainly weren't intending to invent an "I Win" button of any kind. I mean, they can still be targeted and destroyed, or even just plain avoided, so mines have numerous drawbacks, but it's possible that Tricobalts aren't suffering from those drawbacks sufficiently to offset their high damage potential.
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
I'd get the "one crit, it all crits" issue solved first as it should alter the rarity of the super-damage mine pattern.
I'm only just having a look at tric mines after 2 years of playing.
Can you tell me.... what are people speccing into to achieve 40k? just projectile weapons? or projectile weapons specialisation also?
and avoid any mine launchers with a damage x3 modifier on it?
Thanks
It takes around x3, 30% or x4 28% damage consoles with a MK XII Tric mine to get a base damage of around 40k. With projectile weapons skills maxed out. Projectile weapons specialisation just boosts crit damage and crit chance.
If you need precise numbers I can log in and check.
It takes around x3, 30% or x4 28% damage consoles with a MK XII Tric mine to get a base damage of around 40k. With projectile weapons skills maxed out. Projectile weapons specialisation just boosts crit damage and crit chance.
If you need precise numbers I can log in and check.
Thanks for that.
This is for my sciscort....I was only getting a mere 23k without crits. Might try this on my tac for better results.
While I'm very glad to hear that Mines have become more viable as primary kill tactics since the recent changes, we certainly weren't intending to invent an "I Win" button of any kind. I mean, they can still be targeted and destroyed, or even just plain avoided, so mines have numerous drawbacks, but it's possible that Tricobalts aren't suffering from those drawbacks sufficiently to offset their high damage potential.
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
I'd try the "wait and see" approach first. It's hard to say if it's actually overpowered or if this is one of those insanely lucky occurences. We know the guy got lucky, simply because it was a crit on TWO detonations.
KDF cannot get them in the exchange. No one cannot the item cannot be put on exchange.
The point defense console wont work ?
...Can be had for a bit less than a million EC's now.
...So this mine hasn't killed PvP yet ? I'm surprised, I got spammed with these the other night and decided I'm done with PvP till this gets sorted (in anything other than 'it's a good day to die' dilith farm mission). My ENG toon and raptor crew don't have enough heals to counter the damage from stacked salvos.
...So this mine hasn't killed PvP yet ? I'm surprised, I got spammed with these the other night and decided I'm done with PvP till this gets sorted (in anything other than 'it's a good day to die' dilith farm mission). My ENG toon and raptor crew don't have enough heals to counter the damage from stacked salvos.
Throwing in the towel cuz you may have to tweak your build?
Don't counter the damage - prevent it. Mines are easily destroyed thru dozens of different ways, so long as you can see 'em. Borticus' suggestion of decreasing their stealth may help, but I don't think it's that big a deal to begin with. Just means there's another tactic to adapt to.
oh they can because they are in a reward box from the tholian boxes. its subspace jump for fed and point def for klingons
Yes the Point Defence for KDF is in that reward box but what has that got to do with what we are taking about? The automated defence turret which shoots incoming torps and mines is not in that reward box.
Throwing in the towel cuz you may have to tweak your build?
Don't counter the damage - prevent it. Mines are easily destroyed thru dozens of different ways, so long as you can see 'em. Borticus' suggestion of decreasing their stealth may help, but I don't think it's that big a deal to begin with. Just means there's another tactic to adapt to.
"Throwing in the towel cuz you may have to tweak your build?"
Thats really not a fair assumption of my build on your part.
We'll see if 'seeing' them helps, but I'm already at a disadvantage being an ENG capt flying a raptor so a further tweek may not be possible- it may come down to scrapping the build and my toon (which I'm already in the process of planning).
"Throwing in the towel cuz you may have to tweak your build?"
Thats really not a fair assumption of my build on your part.
We'll see if 'seeing' them helps, but I'm already at a disadvantage being an ENG capt flying a raptor so a further tweek may not be possible- it may come down to scrapping the build and my toon (which I'm already in the process of planning).
so you're an eng...in a raptor...and you think mines are your biggest problem?'
But seriously...think about this: To be able to drop a very limited number of tric mines, you'r opponent has to give up two aft weapons slots, and possibly one or more Tac boff stations of LT or higher rank! To counter their advantage, all you need is to give up one aft weapon slot and put a photon mine launcher there.
See? the cost to counter tric mines is MINIMAL compared to the cost dropping them! And best of all, you can carry a photon mine launcher in your inventory, and only slot it if your enemies are dropping tric mines- So you don't have to commit one single skillpoint or sacrifice one single weapons or boff slot when meeting non-mine-dropping opponents.
so you're an eng...in a raptor...and you think mines are your biggest problem?'
But seriously...think about this: To be able to drop a very limited number of tric mines, you'r opponent has to give up two aft weapons slots, and possibly one or more Tac boff stations of LT or higher rank! To counter their advantage, all you need is to give up one aft weapon slot and put a photon mine launcher there.
See? the cost to counter tric mines is MINIMAL compared to the cost dropping them! And best of all, you can carry a photon mine launcher in your inventory, and only slot it if your enemies are dropping tric mines- So you don't have to commit one single skillpoint or sacrifice one single weapons or boff slot when meeting non-mine-dropping opponents.
Hmm, OK, so I have to give up a turret slot (for the Photon mines) AND have my a** pointed at the mines to launch mine, right ? Do I also need to equip a photon det console for the mines (since I don't use a photon torpedo and can't pull it from inv while in combat) ?
"so you're an eng...in a raptor...and you think mines are your biggest problem?"
:P
NO, my BIGGEST problem is trying to roll a different toon for PvP, and levelling/equipping it while trying to maintain realistic dilith / fleet marks farming for my fleet..
No, just crapping out the mines, and keep on flyin by the tric mine will be enough. Pets aggro to pets, and or closest targets.
Also, just having CSV on your ship will be enough to counter mines. Which you should probably have on your ship anyway given the myriad of carrier turds I mean pets there are in pvp.
Mind if I make a suggestion? Go to my cruiser thread, go to the pyrokinetic Negvhar build. And build that. You'll do almost as much damage, and be happier. (and if you want swap the plas torps out for Transphasics. Just remember to change your consoles with em ) Actually it's quite likely that you will kill MORE people with the pyro/kinetic Neggy I have than that raptor due to bleedthrough.
I was testing dispersal patterns on my tac and here are some practical experiences.
I think the reduction of cooldown of dispersal patterns created a situation when they do not benefit from tactical initiative. This should in theory allow you to drop 2 dispersal patterns in quick succession. In reality, the second drop destroyes mines from first drop, if you use it from the same launcher. So that means I have to use two mine launchers to avoid this - and that's probably too much of opportunity cost. I can understand it works poorly with tricobalt launchers (it actually doesnt work at all) because they are powerful, but not for normal mines, especially quick ones like photons or plasma.
Second, while I understand any sane pvper hates too much trash floating in the space, I think the mines droped by dispersal patterns (not just regular launchers) should stay active a little longer. All mines self destruct after 1 min, i would increase dispersal pattern mines to 1:30.
Dispersal pattern Beta = the net is too wide
Dispersal pattern Alpha = the delay between drops is too long, it might something to do, that on low levels starships do not move so quick as on 50
Quantums, Plasma, Chronitons and Trasnphasic are really nice now. Photon mines are little underwhelming as faster recharge is useless with dispersal patterns, and they do little dmg. They simply lack something. I would propose subsystem disable proc :P but I'm not brave enough.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
Mind if I make a suggestion? Go to my cruiser thread, go to the pyrokinetic Negvhar build. And build that.
YOWZA ! A ship that I loath,with BOFFS I don't have, setup for the role I don't want to fill. EVERYTHING I hate all in one package. Will consider/ discuss further in this thread, ok ? http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=352131
:cool:
The most awsome thing about Trics, that most people seem to forget when complaining about them, is that the explosion affects ALL players. Friendly AND enemy!
A Tric-mine heavy team staying close and healing, will probably deal more damage to themselves than to their enemies! One ship flies in there, catches all the mines, and shares the blast with the whole mine-spamming team!
Trics are not OP, they're just hilarious, and damn funny to play with! Most unstable element ever added to a battle!
EDIT: OK, I admit it... I'm a HUGE fan of big explosions! Even when I'm the one eating them! It's just awsome!
Tric mines do not deal damage to teammates or self. Tested this extensively with fleetmates yesterday.
That said, while you can be kinda tricky with the trics, the opportunity cost and ease of incidentally clearing them makes them nothing more dangerous that a high risk/reward weapon. In essence, there is a huge risk that your mines will be completely wiped out before ever being effective. To be frank, if you're using trics with a mine power, two or go home (aside from a torpedo boat setup, anyway) because of the way the cooldowns work out.
Comments
The visiablity portion maybe dependant on aux etc. But, no you should be untargetable at that point, have no collision, and have a massive stealth bonus +serveral thousand. Also, the console can't be activated if you're TB'd or have no aux similarly to other cloaks.
Edit: Just tested, stealth range of ~92000 at lower aux and 96000 at higher aux. Again, the mine just kept on coming.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
A passive stealth detection worth like 150 sensor points should detect you at about 2,5km.
Um a single torpedo or turret platform can overcome most of the mines on the map. And most of the times there is a carrier in the team, its pets can also deal with mines. Maybe an increase in the threat the mintes generate would make everyone happy.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
I'm only just having a look at tric mines after 2 years of playing.
Can you tell me.... what are people speccing into to achieve 40k? just projectile weapons? or projectile weapons specialisation also?
and avoid any mine launchers with a damage x3 modifier on it?
Thanks
I'd get the "one crit, it all crits" issue solved first as it should alter the rarity of the super-damage mine pattern.
It takes around x3, 30% or x4 28% damage consoles with a MK XII Tric mine to get a base damage of around 40k. With projectile weapons skills maxed out. Projectile weapons specialisation just boosts crit damage and crit chance.
If you need precise numbers I can log in and check.
Thanks for that.
This is for my sciscort....I was only getting a mere 23k without crits. Might try this on my tac for better results.
@rudiefix Feds: Rudiefix / Thron / Opa
@rudiefix KDFs: Lill / Xifeidur / Dehr / Ugly
@rudiefix Roms (KDF alligned): Chicita
it would, if more than 5% of the current playerbase had it...
-Dassem, the red matter guy-
plz pm me i got some nice offers
play a klink and buy one in the exchange
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
My character Tsin'xing
oh they can because they are in a reward box from the tholian boxes. its subspace jump for fed and point def for klingons
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
The point defense console wont work ?
...Can be had for a bit less than a million EC's now.
...So this mine hasn't killed PvP yet ? I'm surprised, I got spammed with these the other night and decided I'm done with PvP till this gets sorted (in anything other than 'it's a good day to die' dilith farm mission). My ENG toon and raptor crew don't have enough heals to counter the damage from stacked salvos.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Throwing in the towel cuz you may have to tweak your build?
Don't counter the damage - prevent it. Mines are easily destroyed thru dozens of different ways, so long as you can see 'em. Borticus' suggestion of decreasing their stealth may help, but I don't think it's that big a deal to begin with. Just means there's another tactic to adapt to.
"Throwing in the towel cuz you may have to tweak your build?"
Thats really not a fair assumption of my build on your part.
We'll see if 'seeing' them helps, but I'm already at a disadvantage being an ENG capt flying a raptor so a further tweek may not be possible- it may come down to scrapping the build and my toon (which I'm already in the process of planning).
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
so you're an eng...in a raptor...and you think mines are your biggest problem?'
But seriously...think about this: To be able to drop a very limited number of tric mines, you'r opponent has to give up two aft weapons slots, and possibly one or more Tac boff stations of LT or higher rank! To counter their advantage, all you need is to give up one aft weapon slot and put a photon mine launcher there.
See? the cost to counter tric mines is MINIMAL compared to the cost dropping them! And best of all, you can carry a photon mine launcher in your inventory, and only slot it if your enemies are dropping tric mines- So you don't have to commit one single skillpoint or sacrifice one single weapons or boff slot when meeting non-mine-dropping opponents.
Hmm, OK, so I have to give up a turret slot (for the Photon mines) AND have my a** pointed at the mines to launch mine, right ? Do I also need to equip a photon det console for the mines (since I don't use a photon torpedo and can't pull it from inv while in combat) ?
"so you're an eng...in a raptor...and you think mines are your biggest problem?"
:P
NO, my BIGGEST problem is trying to roll a different toon for PvP, and levelling/equipping it while trying to maintain realistic dilith / fleet marks farming for my fleet..
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Also, just having CSV on your ship will be enough to counter mines. Which you should probably have on your ship anyway given the myriad of carrier turds I mean pets there are in pvp.
Also, eng in a raptor? *lesigh* :P
wow, all this hate for the combo I'm trapped in.
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
Mind if I make a suggestion? Go to my cruiser thread, go to the pyrokinetic Negvhar build. And build that. You'll do almost as much damage, and be happier. (and if you want swap the plas torps out for Transphasics. Just remember to change your consoles with em
I think the reduction of cooldown of dispersal patterns created a situation when they do not benefit from tactical initiative. This should in theory allow you to drop 2 dispersal patterns in quick succession. In reality, the second drop destroyes mines from first drop, if you use it from the same launcher. So that means I have to use two mine launchers to avoid this - and that's probably too much of opportunity cost. I can understand it works poorly with tricobalt launchers (it actually doesnt work at all) because they are powerful, but not for normal mines, especially quick ones like photons or plasma.
Second, while I understand any sane pvper hates too much trash floating in the space, I think the mines droped by dispersal patterns (not just regular launchers) should stay active a little longer. All mines self destruct after 1 min, i would increase dispersal pattern mines to 1:30.
Dispersal pattern Beta = the net is too wide
Dispersal pattern Alpha = the delay between drops is too long, it might something to do, that on low levels starships do not move so quick as on 50
Quantums, Plasma, Chronitons and Trasnphasic are really nice now. Photon mines are little underwhelming as faster recharge is useless with dispersal patterns, and they do little dmg. They simply lack something. I would propose subsystem disable proc :P but I'm not brave enough.
Oh dear. It's careless suggestions like this the dev's seem to take to heart bud. "Loose lips sink ships" and all that
YOWZA ! A ship that I loath,with BOFFS I don't have, setup for the role I don't want to fill. EVERYTHING I hate all in one package. Will consider/ discuss further in this thread, ok ?
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=352131
:cool:
Awoken Dead
Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
A Tric-mine heavy team staying close and healing, will probably deal more damage to themselves than to their enemies!
Trics are not OP, they're just hilarious, and damn funny to play with! Most unstable element ever added to a battle!
EDIT: OK, I admit it... I'm a HUGE fan of big explosions! Even when I'm the one eating them! It's just awsome!
That said, while you can be kinda tricky with the trics, the opportunity cost and ease of incidentally clearing them makes them nothing more dangerous that a high risk/reward weapon. In essence, there is a huge risk that your mines will be completely wiped out before ever being effective. To be frank, if you're using trics with a mine power, two or go home (aside from a torpedo boat setup, anyway) because of the way the cooldowns work out.