Seeing those numbers, aux to damp just got much more sweetier.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
While I haven't done it yet please keep in mind KDF Ad frigs drop Tric mines. While my Tac-Fi (AbusingP2WEnjoy) will abuse this @ somepoint, NPC pets really need to be considered when buffing mines.
I don't think the pet mines will be any different. Tric mine damage was not altered much. The big change was made to the dispersal pattern ability. The reason we see so many huge numbers now, is because we have Tac captains with multiple TCD consoles dropping fully buffed clusters of trics.
I really don't see anissue with this... did a few pvp matches last night, and the amount of GW, Tyken, TBR, PSW, FAW and CSV out there almost kept the enviroment mine-free. The pets also took out their share. (as well as taking their share of the mine damage)
(I made an experimental transph-build, and went into a pvp match with 3 torp launcers, 2 mine launchers, a cluster torp, and one beam arry on a MVAM. I totally aced the damage numbers, but was completely unable to kill anything... it was all fail!)
I don't think the pet mines will be any different. Tric mine damage was not altered much. The big change was made to the dispersal pattern ability. The reason we see so many huge numbers now, is because we have Tac captains with multiple TCD consoles dropping fully buffed clusters of trics.
Tric Mine Base dmg on my cloaked brel... is 42k !!! BASE... if it didn't get a buff wth.
Oh pet mines are different. I tried and they hit for about 18k without shields. Now thats not as scary as what players can do but still. Also you have 4 of these pets and mines are only one of their weapons.
Still since you cant thell them when and where the mines should go this wont affect pvp too much I think. But in pvm with a GW3 its hilarious.
im thinking of adding 1 to my warp plasma dumps, though im not speced in projectile damage at all. would it be worth it? are those huge damage numbers only gettable when buffed and speced to the max?
I think basically if you're going for a warp plasma spam build, you're going to be Tac buffing anyway so why not. Worst case you're just out a turret or whatever.
Tric Mine Base dmg on my cloaked brel... is 42k !!! BASE... if it didn't get a buff wth.
I'm trying to search my memory now... Before torpedo abilities started affecting tric torps, they had the same base damage as mines, afai remember.
After the nerf/change (now), the torps do 9k. I can't be 100% accurate on this, but I remember 2 years ago I was playing with tric torps, and they were somewhere in the 30-40k area... with crits above 100k. So mines should be the same.... yeah... I remember being disappointed that my tric mines did 40k hits on STF infected gate, and it was just 5-6% of the gate health... 40ish sounds right.
My best tip will be to ask Minimax about this. He was bumping people off with those torps on a regular basis. He should remember.
EDIT: For some reason, the number 32k popped up in my mind... with no TCD consoles... and possibly 6 or 9 points in projectiles.
EDIT2: Remembered I did a NPC trick video a long time ago. This is in a ship with max 2 tac consoles, but I don't think I used TCD consoles, as they were hard to get at the time. As you see from the video, against NPCs with no shield power, they usually scored about 30k without critting, and no debuffing. I'm fairly certain I wasn't too heavily specced into them either, as I reserved most of my skillz for sci. (old skill system)
I'm trying to search my memory now... Before torpedo abilities started affecting tric torps, they had the same base damage as mines, afai remember.
After the nerf/change (now), the torps do 9k. I can't be 100% accurate on this, but I remember 2 years ago I was playing with tric torps, and they were somewhere in the 30-40k area... with crits above 100k. So mines should be the same.... yeah... I remember being disappointed that my tric mines did 40k hits on STF infected gate, and it was just 5-6% of the gate health... 40ish sounds right.
My best tip will be to ask Minimax about this. He was bumping people off with those torps on a regular basis. He should remember.
EDIT: For some reason, the number 32k popped up in my mind... with no TCD consoles... and possibly 6 or 9 points in projectiles.
EDIT2: Remembered I did a NPC trick video a long time ago. This is in a ship with max 2 tac consoles, but I don't think I used TCD consoles, as they were hard to get at the time. As you see from the video, against NPCs with no shield power, they usually scored about 30k without critting, and no debuffing. I'm fairly certain I wasn't too heavily specced into them either, as I reserved most of my skillz for sci. (old skill system)
W/3 Tac consoles cloak & khg partial boost I remember getting Tric Torps near or above 40k base max projectiles but probably not max consoles. I'd think 5 Tac consoles boats could do this or more if they really wanted to for lolz.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
ive run into a few wile vm'ed, tractor beam'ed and warp plasma'ed, they certainly weren't ship shattering. remember that like all kinetic damage, it only deals 1/4 of its listed damage to shields, and then only 10% of that or less hits your hull
ive run into a few wile vm'ed, tractor beam'ed and warp plasma'ed, they certainly weren't ship shattering. remember that like all kinetic damage, it only deals 1/4 of its listed damage to shields, and then only 10% of that or less hits your hull
Stacks of Tricobalt mines, bye bye shields, bye bye hull, and what do you do when you have teams built around this ;p? You can't very well escape slow spam from multiple targets either hehe.
Stacks of Tricobalt mines, bye bye shields, bye bye hull, and what do you do when you have teams built around this ;p? You can't very well escape slow spam from multiple targets either hehe.
drop a few photon mines of your own to eat their trics?
(note to self: keep a photon mine launcer at hand to slot if facing tric-teams)
While I'm very glad to hear that Mines have become more viable as primary kill tactics since the recent changes, we certainly weren't intending to invent an "I Win" button of any kind. I mean, they can still be targeted and destroyed, or even just plain avoided, so mines have numerous drawbacks, but it's possible that Tricobalts aren't suffering from those drawbacks sufficiently to offset their high damage potential.
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
While I'm very glad to hear that Mines have become more viable as primary kill tactics since the recent changes, we certainly weren't intending to invent an "I Win" button of any kind. I mean, they can still be targeted and destroyed, or even just plain avoided, so mines have numerous drawbacks, but it's possible that Tricobalts aren't suffering from those drawbacks sufficiently to offset their high damage potential.
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
The big issue being not many players have used mines effectively even before the revamp problem people are finding is that even before your revamp tricobalt mines were the strongest damaging projectile in the game.
The real issue is that most players do not carry counters for these such as grav well, faw, tbr, scramble sensors (red october method make it activate on its owner before it can activate on you). Also people can argue to till they are blue in the face but even 1 point of shielding on a facing also absorbs most of the damage anyways thats why I always keep distribute shields a keystroke nearby.
Its not really much of an I win ability though because of the fact that most of the quick non target shields functions have been taken out of play so its not as easy for someone to do a quick take out your shields and tricobalt you. I'd rather see people setup proper counters than complain of it as an easy win tactic.
While I'm very glad to hear that Mines have become more viable as primary kill tactics since the recent changes, we certainly weren't intending to invent an "I Win" button of any kind. I mean, they can still be targeted and destroyed, or even just plain avoided, so mines have numerous drawbacks, but it's possible that Tricobalts aren't suffering from those drawbacks sufficiently to offset their high damage potential.
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
Instead of reducing their Stealth Values, perhaps reduce their Severity so that even with CrtD x3 they can't get a Crit higher then 40k?
You think that your beta test was bad?
Think about this: American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I personaly wouldn't touch them yet. It's not like they are spammed in pvp...yet. There is plenty of counters in PvP to deal with them effectively I guess.
If i have it ready, I usually destroy tricobalt mine with tractorbeam if my weapons are in firing cycle.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
While I'm very glad to hear that Mines have become more viable as primary kill tactics since the recent changes, we certainly weren't intending to invent an "I Win" button of any kind. I mean, they can still be targeted and destroyed, or even just plain avoided, so mines have numerous drawbacks, but it's possible that Tricobalts aren't suffering from those drawbacks sufficiently to offset their high damage potential.
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
I'd have to do more testing, but my only real concern w/mines in general is they seem to detect cloaked vessels better than the players who drop them. Also, they don't seem to disengage if the cloaked player evasives away, it's a similar issue to the ping w/pets. Once in a DSE I decloaked, then recloaked. The NPCs while they didn't fire nor use an ability after I recloaked, they still had me on target lock.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
I think it should have stayed on Tribble for testing a while longer.
But yeah, the issue here isn't that the tric is bugged or overpowered: It's always been this way.
It's just that before the changes, mine usage among players was even more rare than a prototype tech drop. Coupled with the pre-change's lackluster performance means that even if you do encounter a minelayer, it was far less trouble to just take the hit instead of spec'ing in a countermeasure.
I suspect the only reason tricobalt mines are now seeing more use is due to being affected by Dispersal Pattern. With a 1m recycle time, dropping one easily destroyable mine every 60 seconds just wasn't feasible enough.
I'd have to do more testing, but my only real concern w/mines in general is they seem to detect cloaked vessels better than the players who drop them. Also, they don't seem to disengage if the cloaked player evasives away, it's a similar issue to the ping w/pets. Once in a DSE I decloaked, then recloaked. The NPCs while they didn't fire nor use an ability after I recloaked, they still had me on target lock.
It's actually pretty easy to detect cloaked players with enough +sensor rating. So there is nothing wrong if a device created as MINE has above average sensor rating.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
It's actually pretty easy to detect cloaked players with enough +sensor rating. So there is nothing wrong if a device created as MINE has above average sensor rating.
Like I said I'd need to do more testing. But, as another example I used the phase cloak console on the Karfi which is supposed to break target locks in addition to preventing damage. A mine which had detected me, kept coming at me and approached to zero distance as I was moving. It doesn't seem like they're losing their lock when a player cloaks.
[Zone] Dack@****: cowards can't take a fed 1 on 1 crinckley cowards Hahahaha you smell like flowers
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
But when you phase cloak ? you are still visible aren't you ? I do not have Karfi myself, but when I see them do it in PvP I just though they are "incorporeal" but still targetable.
"Cryptic Studio’s Jack Emmert (2010): Microtransactions are the biggest bunch of nonsense. I like paying one fee and not worrying about it – like my cellphone. The world’s biggest MMO isn’t item based, even though the black market item GDP is bigger than Russia … microtransactions make me want to die.”
While I'm very glad to hear that Mines have become more viable as primary kill tactics since the recent changes, we certainly weren't intending to invent an "I Win" button of any kind. I mean, they can still be targeted and destroyed, or even just plain avoided, so mines have numerous drawbacks, but it's possible that Tricobalts aren't suffering from those drawbacks sufficiently to offset their high damage potential.
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
Do you mind takeing a look at Fleet mines which are useless. They have the DMGx3 which does not work with mines. There are also no options for transphasic mines in the fleet store.
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
Instead of reducing their Stealth Values, perhaps reduce their Severity so that even with CrtD x3 they can't get a Crit higher then 40k?
I think the my tric mines hit harder than 40k even without critting, when I use tac buffs.
I really don't see the problem with tric mines the way they are. I have yet to see anyone make efficient use of them in PvP. Sure they do a lot of damage, but you can drop them only every 30 seconds (at the cost of two weapons slots). I tried slotting 2 launchers myself, and during a whole PvP match I didn't have one good hit. Most of the time they were destroyed by GW, TBR, Tykens, EWP, Theta rad, PSW, FAW, CSV, pets and other mines. When one of them chanced to hit a ship, the shields took the edge off the blow.
It's an extremely fickle weapon, it fires once every 30 sec, getting them to drop more frequently requires the use of very 'expensive' tac abilities, and 2 mines are destroyed just as easily as one by AoE abilities, and almost all abilities in game have the opportunity to prevent them from doing damage. I don't think the damage is out of line at all. In fact, I still regard them as a wasted weapons slot in pvp. Sure, they have a freak chance at scoring, but one kill a month is not worth two weapons slots, a tac ltc slot, and all your tac consoles....
Comments
One crits, it all crits.
I don't think the pet mines will be any different. Tric mine damage was not altered much. The big change was made to the dispersal pattern ability. The reason we see so many huge numbers now, is because we have Tac captains with multiple TCD consoles dropping fully buffed clusters of trics.
I really don't see anissue with this... did a few pvp matches last night, and the amount of GW, Tyken, TBR, PSW, FAW and CSV out there almost kept the enviroment mine-free. The pets also took out their share. (as well as taking their share of the mine damage)
(I made an experimental transph-build, and went into a pvp match with 3 torp launcers, 2 mine launchers, a cluster torp, and one beam arry on a MVAM. I totally aced the damage numbers, but was completely unable to kill anything... it was all fail!)
Tric Mine Base dmg on my cloaked brel... is 42k !!! BASE... if it didn't get a buff wth.
Still since you cant thell them when and where the mines should go this wont affect pvp too much I think. But in pvm with a GW3 its hilarious.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Indeed it is.
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
I think basically if you're going for a warp plasma spam build, you're going to be Tac buffing anyway so why not. Worst case you're just out a turret or whatever.
vids and guides and stuff
[9:52] [Zone #11] Neal@trapper1532: im a omega force shadow oprative and a maoc elite camander and here i am taking water samples
I'm trying to search my memory now... Before torpedo abilities started affecting tric torps, they had the same base damage as mines, afai remember.
After the nerf/change (now), the torps do 9k. I can't be 100% accurate on this, but I remember 2 years ago I was playing with tric torps, and they were somewhere in the 30-40k area... with crits above 100k. So mines should be the same.... yeah... I remember being disappointed that my tric mines did 40k hits on STF infected gate, and it was just 5-6% of the gate health... 40ish sounds right.
My best tip will be to ask Minimax about this. He was bumping people off with those torps on a regular basis. He should remember.
EDIT: For some reason, the number 32k popped up in my mind... with no TCD consoles... and possibly 6 or 9 points in projectiles.
EDIT2: Remembered I did a NPC trick video a long time ago. This is in a ship with max 2 tac consoles, but I don't think I used TCD consoles, as they were hard to get at the time. As you see from the video, against NPCs with no shield power, they usually scored about 30k without critting, and no debuffing. I'm fairly certain I wasn't too heavily specced into them either, as I reserved most of my skillz for sci. (old skill system)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAvaK5kGYXI&list=UULmXfQThrnc1HNI1hjPsNVg&index=2&feature=plcp
Sort of a fun video
W/3 Tac consoles cloak & khg partial boost I remember getting Tric Torps near or above 40k base max projectiles but probably not max consoles. I'd think 5 Tac consoles boats could do this or more if they really wanted to for lolz.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Do Zoidbergs come in a more patina green as oppossed to that sickening Lime pastel color?
R.I.P
Probably. I'm sure there's one parallel universe out there which would have him in a nice patina green for you.
I don't see the Tricmines ripping PvP a new one. It's just too damn hard to be a mine out there.
however...
It's definately a ILOL button for PvE!
I think they need to be nerfed.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
Pack a TBR or a GW and nerf them yourself! :P
Stacks of Tricobalt mines, bye bye shields, bye bye hull, and what do you do when you have teams built around this ;p? You can't very well escape slow spam from multiple targets either hehe.
| Join Date: January 2009 | Computer | Fleet: Broken Wings |
drop a few photon mines of your own to eat their trics?
(note to self: keep a photon mine launcer at hand to slot if facing tric-teams)
My character Tsin'xing
As a result, I'm considering reducing the Stealth values on Tricobalt Mines. I'm open to hearing other constructive options as well, if these have truly created an imbalance.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
The big issue being not many players have used mines effectively even before the revamp problem people are finding is that even before your revamp tricobalt mines were the strongest damaging projectile in the game.
The real issue is that most players do not carry counters for these such as grav well, faw, tbr, scramble sensors (red october method make it activate on its owner before it can activate on you). Also people can argue to till they are blue in the face but even 1 point of shielding on a facing also absorbs most of the damage anyways thats why I always keep distribute shields a keystroke nearby.
Its not really much of an I win ability though because of the fact that most of the quick non target shields functions have been taken out of play so its not as easy for someone to do a quick take out your shields and tricobalt you. I'd rather see people setup proper counters than complain of it as an easy win tactic.
Instead of reducing their Stealth Values, perhaps reduce their Severity so that even with CrtD x3 they can't get a Crit higher then 40k?
Think about this:
American Football has been in open beta for 144 years. ~Kotaku
If i have it ready, I usually destroy tricobalt mine with tractorbeam if my weapons are in firing cycle.
I'd have to do more testing, but my only real concern w/mines in general is they seem to detect cloaked vessels better than the players who drop them. Also, they don't seem to disengage if the cloaked player evasives away, it's a similar issue to the ping w/pets. Once in a DSE I decloaked, then recloaked. The NPCs while they didn't fire nor use an ability after I recloaked, they still had me on target lock.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
But yeah, the issue here isn't that the tric is bugged or overpowered: It's always been this way.
It's just that before the changes, mine usage among players was even more rare than a prototype tech drop. Coupled with the pre-change's lackluster performance means that even if you do encounter a minelayer, it was far less trouble to just take the hit instead of spec'ing in a countermeasure.
I suspect the only reason tricobalt mines are now seeing more use is due to being affected by Dispersal Pattern. With a 1m recycle time, dropping one easily destroyable mine every 60 seconds just wasn't feasible enough.
It's actually pretty easy to detect cloaked players with enough +sensor rating. So there is nothing wrong if a device created as MINE has above average sensor rating.
Like I said I'd need to do more testing. But, as another example I used the phase cloak console on the Karfi which is supposed to break target locks in addition to preventing damage. A mine which had detected me, kept coming at me and approached to zero distance as I was moving. It doesn't seem like they're losing their lock when a player cloaks.
Random Quote from Kerrat
"Sumlobus@****: your mums eat Iced Targ Poo"
C&H Fed banter
Do you mind takeing a look at Fleet mines which are useless. They have the DMGx3 which does not work with mines. There are also no options for transphasic mines in the fleet store.
I think the my tric mines hit harder than 40k even without critting, when I use tac buffs.
I really don't see the problem with tric mines the way they are. I have yet to see anyone make efficient use of them in PvP. Sure they do a lot of damage, but you can drop them only every 30 seconds (at the cost of two weapons slots). I tried slotting 2 launchers myself, and during a whole PvP match I didn't have one good hit. Most of the time they were destroyed by GW, TBR, Tykens, EWP, Theta rad, PSW, FAW, CSV, pets and other mines. When one of them chanced to hit a ship, the shields took the edge off the blow.
It's an extremely fickle weapon, it fires once every 30 sec, getting them to drop more frequently requires the use of very 'expensive' tac abilities, and 2 mines are destroyed just as easily as one by AoE abilities, and almost all abilities in game have the opportunity to prevent them from doing damage. I don't think the damage is out of line at all. In fact, I still regard them as a wasted weapons slot in pvp. Sure, they have a freak chance at scoring, but one kill a month is not worth two weapons slots, a tac ltc slot, and all your tac consoles....