How is it that there are still people that seem to be surprised when Perfect World slaps them in the face? Aren't you supposed to wise up after the first dozen times?
Didnt read every page. But of course lock box ships should get upgraded.
Im just peeved that Season 6 StarBases dont mean much for me Personally since seems all the C-Store ships I bought are the ones they arent bothering to update. How could the 6 I paid real money for not be included?
I don't really mind the fact of the lockbox ships getting buffed to compete with the fleet variants. But would rather it be that you had to pay for the buff with fleet credits. Other wise the ships like the Atrox, Maurader Patrol, Kar'fi and Garumba that are current "endgame" ships that they don't plan on releasing fleet variants of should get the same treatment as the Galor, D'kora and Attack Ship. We paid for them as endgame and now they are getting ignored while the Lockbox endgame ships are getting buffed to compete with all teh fleet versions.
I would ask Cryptic and PWE to give the Atrox, Marader, Kar'fi and Garumba the same love that they are giving to the Lockboxes. Not like the 7 of the ships are scheduled for fleet variants anyways.
Considering the amount of time and money I put into getting my bug I'm happy they are keeping it up to date with the fleet ships. It is supposed to be a great ship. The defiant looks just as good imo and that has a cloak.
Perhaps there should be a cost associated with upgrading the lockbox ships. Seems fair.
Considering the amount of time and money I put into getting my bug I'm happy they are keeping it up to date with the fleet ships. It is supposed to be a great ship. The defiant looks just as good imo and that has a cloak.
Perhaps there should be a cost associated with upgrading the lockbox ships. Seems fair.
ditto.
I don't have a problem with lockbox ships getting a bump to remain amongst the best ships in the game. I don't have a bug ship, but as long as they aren't ridiculously overpowered I'm okay if they have a slight edge. Looking forward to another console slot on my D'Kora, which I spent $0 to obtain as I bought it off the Exchange for 80 million EC, earned by crafting Mk XII consoles.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
With this upgrade my Galor goes up to over 14k shields - 2nd field generator added for the new Sci slot - which means it will last longer than before and longer than most ships in the same catagory.
Giving the bug another Tac slot gives it a lot more punch than ever before.
I can see the lock box ships becoming more and more desirable and becoming out of the reach of casual players - i bought my Galor for 83mil a while back and i think they are 110+ now, for the D'kora i think theres less than 10 listed now on the exchange
Considering the amount of time and money I put into getting my bug I'm happy they are keeping it up to date with the fleet ships. It is supposed to be a great ship. The defiant looks just as good imo and that has a cloak.
Perhaps there should be a cost associated with upgrading the lockbox ships. Seems fair.
With this upgrade my Galor goes up to over 14k shields - 2nd field generator added for the new Sci slot - which means it will last longer than before and longer than most ships in the same catagory.
Giving the bug another Tac slot gives it a lot more punch than ever before.
I can see the lock box ships becoming more and more desirable and becoming out of the reach of casual players - i bought my Galor for 83mil a while back and i think they are 110+ now, for the D'kora i think theres less than 10 listed now on the exchange
This
The bug ship is now (current state on Tribble) the escort to beat, and I still don't know what to classify the D'Kora as (insane hull, dual cannons and maneuverable). A D'Kora outfitted right can hold all three Cube lanes to the Kang and can take the three Raptors single handed as is and still come and help in the other lane with the remaining Raptors. Dunno to much about the Galor, no one ever impressed me with one, but from what I read above. They were as is gimmick ships in my book, ships with unique quirks that made them appealing to some play styles (until the D'Kora, I still consider it broken on some levels).
Hi, my name is: Elim Garak, Former Cardassian Oppressor
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
there are people who paid lots of money for those lockbox ships (most times, much more than a single cstore ship). its only fair, that they get an update for free.
I'm fine with this. People put in a lot of money or work for those ships.
Now while we're at it, let's let the B'rel retro's cloak work like it should. No more of this 3-second nonsense.
Why should they fix it? it's not like you put in as much money or work for it than those who got the lockbox ships. You get what you pay for, that means you don't deserve a fix.
there are people who paid lots of money for those lockbox ships (most times, much more than a single cstore ship). its only fair, that they get an update for free.
haters gonna hate
Lockbox ships need to be teir 5 shipyard projects to keep some balance in the game.
Lockbox ships need to be teir 5 shipyard projects to keep some balance in the game.
Unless part of the reason they are doing this is for people who aren't in fleets. If this is the case then they would need to be some sort of grind to obtain said upgrades.
Not everyone wants to be in a fleet. I really didn't like how season six was pushing everyone to join/create one just to get new ships. Now it seems they don't have to...
This thread has convinced me to stop spending money on PW/Cryptic games.
I will spend my monthly stipend here and on Champions...and not a Zen more:(
Fleet or not.. Fact is i make more then 1000 Ferengi Lock Bxes in a Month, if i play extreme in a week,
1 key each box = 900 Cryptic points for 10 = 90 Crypos a key
1000 FerengiRipgamersbox = 90.000 Cryptic Points to open them
90K CP = 90000 : 5 = 180 X 50?
total : 9000 Euro for Ferengi Gaming Company ..but instead of this sh....i dont buy a single CR Point ever again unless they dont throw these ??Fake we rip your money Boxes?? out of the game!
That makes the game unplayable, even that the storage place wouldnt handle all that stuff
I said it in another thread that seems to have gotten buried but here's my take on this:
They have rough balance numbers, yes? So they should know what kind of percentage improvement fleet ships are over Tier 5.
So here's what *I* would do.
I'd upgrade the Atrox/Guramba/Galaxy-X/Excelsior/lockbox ships to Fleet Quality.
I'd then come up with a debuff passive power that reduces them in effectiveness by the % that the fleet tier is a boost. This debuff can be removed for fleet marks at Fleet Tier 5.
So, for example: They have 10 consoles. They have a debuff which reduces the effectiveness of consoles by 10% (the net value is roughly the same as 9 consoles), reduces shield modifier by 10%, and reduces hull hitpoints by 4%.
Now what this means is, these ships WOULD see more benefit than standard Tier 5 when it comes to stacking C-Store ability consoles. But in all other respects would still be Tier 5, in terms of balance.
Then when you remove the -10% console stats, -10% shield modifier, and -4% hull debuff, the ship would become fleet tier.
Because these ships would be designed as fleet tier already, just with a debuff that pushes them back down to their current Holodeck levels of effectiveness. (Yes, they'd have 10 consoles instead of 9. But their total console gain would be at 90% effectiveness, effectively making it LIKE they have 9 consoles until they remove the debuff.)
The c-store schem is only for ships on the c-store.
If you already have that ship, if its one you have already bought you dont need to buy the schem.
Its just there to stop people making c-store ships without buying them on the c-store.
It's actually quite a good system.
For Example, I have the Defiant, i bought it from the C-Store. When i want to make the fleet upgraded version i will not need to buy the schem as i have already unlocked the schem because i have bought the ship on the c-store.
But If i didnt have the Defiant, if i'd chosen not to buy it from the C-Store. If i wanted to make a fleet upgraded version of it i would need to buy the schem (probably the same price as the original ship and comes unlocks the basic ship also).
Listen to the priority one interview again. its stated quite clearly.
If this is the case then that is ok, I have no troubles in spending a few fleet credits to upgrade my cstore ship so long as it never costs more real life money to do so.
If this is the case then why wasn't the lockbox ships given the same treatment?
If this is the case then that is ok, I have no troubles in spending a few fleet credits to upgrade my cstore ship so long as it never costs more real life money to do so.
If this is the case then why wasn't the lockbox ships given the same treatment?
I can see a few things.
One is that CBS had to give reluctant approval to these ships. So adding a second version, even limited to owners of the first, might be more difficult than an upgrade.
The other big one is that time, activity, and effort are all completely analogous to money. The plan with the fleet tier is largely to get people to buy DOffs/dilithium/recipes; while people have the option to grind them, Cryptic is hoping people will pay real money RATHER than grind them. And if it's ultimately about money, lockbox ships already cost 8x what the next most expensive ship costs.
Incidentally, if I'd been in charge of systems on STO, my ultimate solution probably would have been to give every T5 ship 15 consoles and 177% the current hull but introduce consoles but have a debuff that causes all stat gains and base stats to function at 56% effectiveness.
Then gradually, over time, allow people to increase the effectiveness of their consoles and hull.
This has a couple of net gains.
First of all, it would de-necessitate separate versions of any T5 ship. The only new ships needed would be ships that don't exist at T5.
Second, it makes C-Store ability consoles significantly more valuable to equip until you've progressed further. Once you've removed all the passive stat debuffs, stat consoles would be ideal. Until then, C-Store ability consoles are patently better than stat improving consoles.
Third, it increases the number of consoles people want to earn, which makes the gearing process take longer.
One is that CBS had to give reluctant approval to these ships. So adding a second version, even limited to owners of the first, might be more difficult than an upgrade.
The other big one is that time, activity, and effort are all completely analogous to money. The plan with the fleet tier is largely to get people to buy DOffs/dilithium/recipes; while people have the option to grind them, Cryptic is hoping people will pay real money RATHER than grind them. And if it's ultimately about money, lockbox ships already cost 8x what the next most expensive ship costs.
The problem is, the more I see on tribble and read on these forums makes me not want to get involved.
It is a very very slippery slope cryptic have created that I am not sure people should be taking part in.
I already know it is a lost cause because people have already started sliding down that slope along with them.
I foresee by next year, pvp will be opened up surounding the starbases and all those stories we hear from asia regarding the "castle" type play where you have to survive constant attacks from other fleets or lose everything, is slowly becoming a reality in sto
I foresee by next year, pvp will be opened up surounding the starbases and all those stories we hear from asia regarding the "castle" type play where you have to survive constant attacks from other fleets or lose everything, is slowly becoming a reality in sto
While only time will tell, I believe this thought might go against how STO is mainly a casual gamer experience. PWE/Cryptic would rather have people pay money because they don't want to grind. Having constant attacks on a starbase would mean players constantly online to defend, which would give them the ability to grind more and purchase less.
Why should they fix it? it's not like you put in as much money or work for it than those who got the lockbox ships. You get what you pay for, that means you don't deserve a fix.
Wow, did I say something to upset you? Are you one of the guys who ended up on my list?
I was just throwing it out there as a nice gimmick to make up for not being able to upgrade the b'rel. I didn't say I deserved anything.
I have many C-Store ships that I bought with cash / Stipend.
I also have the Galor and Dkora that I?ve yet to commission. (Only cost 6 million EC for the keys)
My big question now is what happens with C-Store Ships that we earned with tokens like the Defiant Refit and the Galaxy Retrofit and the like, can we still upgrade them since we have them on the toon?
I tokened my Defiant Refit, Galaxy Refit, Voyager Refit, Kar?Fi and Brel Refit.
Another question of mine is what about stock ships like the Vo?Quv; will there be a fleet version of it and what would be the cost to claim it?
It does seem like a bit of a slap in the face to players the bought any ships from the C-Store to now have to spend more money or grind more dilithium to upgrade their bought and paid for C-Store ships when the lock box ships get the instant upgrade for free.
I have many C-Store ships that I bought with cash / Stipend.
I also have the Galor and Dkora that I?ve yet to commission. (Only cost 6 million EC for the keys)
My big question now is what happens with C-Store Ships that we earned with tokens like the Defiant Refit and the Galaxy Retrofit and the like, can we still upgrade them since we have them on the toon?
I tokened my Defiant Refit, Galaxy Refit, Voyager Refit, Kar?Fi and Brel Refit.
Another question of mine is what about stock ships like the Vo?Quv; will there be a fleet version of it and what would be the cost to claim it?
It does seem like a bit of a slap in the face to players the bought any ships from the C-Store to now have to spend more money or grind more dilithium to upgrade their bought and paid for C-Store ships when the lock box ships get the instant upgrade for free.
In terms of the lockbox ships, regardless of what you paid, Cryptic made $200 on every one of them because that's the average cost to obtain and they have a large sample size. Even if you bought keys with EC and got lucky, someone bought those keys with cash and the average cost of obtaining one is what Cryptic makes. (People who get them in few tries are offset by people who never get one, including those not trying to get one.)
In terms of "token'd" ships, all you get from C-Store ships are the costumes and the consoles. None of the token'd ships have a unique C-Store costume. So you got the console. Everything else is earnable. Granted, you only have the console on that one character and can't reclaim it if you lose it but you got the console, which is the only edge a person gets from having the C-Store ship first. (For example: you have the ablative armor console. That's all anyone who bought the C-Store ship would get. The fleet ship is a NEW ship that can equip that console, that anyone can get.)
In terms of the other T5 ships (including stock ships), I believe they're in the fleet store.
In terms of cost, I don't have them handy.
But the Fleet ships come in two tiers. One costs fleet marks, which are earned in-game. Around 5 per easy mission. Some harder stuff can award 50+. A fleet ship costs 25,000 or so and requires joining a fleet that has it unlocked. However, you keep your fleet marks regardless of whether you're in a fleet or not. You don't need to be in a fleet to earn fleet marks; just to spend them. The fleet progress unlocks the store. You keep the marks and anything you buy with them regardless of anything else.
The first fleet version is just a Tier 5 ship. 9 consoles and whatnot. Think of this as an alternative to the C-Store ships, minus the special ability console.
The second fleet version has 10 consoles, improved hull, and improved stat modifier. This one costs 25,000 fleet marks, as I recall, plus 4 design spec thing-ys. These design spec thing-ys can be earned in-game somehow OR purchased from the C-Store for impatient people.
If you have the console, you have the only benefit that the C-Store ship confers over fleet versions.
THAT SAID, the C-Store ships are more powerful than stock T5 ships and being powerful will earn you more fleet marks.
So there are essentially three tiers of ship:
1 Dilithium/token ships at Rear Admiral.
2A Fleet ships/retrofits which cost 25k fleet marks plus require fleet progress
2B C-Store ships, which are like 2A but have a special ability console
3 Fleet marks plus design spec thing-y ships. These require the most massive amount of work. These are the 10 console ships with noticeable stat gains. You could, say, theoretically skip straight to this tier without buying a C-Store ship but you won't get the power console for the high tier ships -- or the power console or costume for the lower tier retrofitted ships.
When you buy ships in the C-Store, you ONLY get two things under the new system:
1. The convenience of having a version of the ship now.
2. The power console.
But you could get a version without the power console without spending a dime. However, the console-less in-game version that is matched to the C-Store ship will probably take most people over 3 months to earn (less if you've maxed duty officer progress and get good at the no-win scenario) and the true upgrade (10 console version) will take OVER 3 months to earn unless you're really good, really progressed, and use the C-Store as a shortcut.
Comments
Only the excelsior got an Hp buff.
Rewarding people to do anything will cause them to do it.
Ergo not rewarding them might cause them to stop, thus removing a very non Trek thing from the game.
Im just peeved that Season 6 StarBases dont mean much for me Personally since seems all the C-Store ships I bought are the ones they arent bothering to update. How could the 6 I paid real money for not be included?
I would ask Cryptic and PWE to give the Atrox, Marader, Kar'fi and Garumba the same love that they are giving to the Lockboxes. Not like the 7 of the ships are scheduled for fleet variants anyways.
Perhaps there should be a cost associated with upgrading the lockbox ships. Seems fair.
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
ditto.
I don't have a problem with lockbox ships getting a bump to remain amongst the best ships in the game. I don't have a bug ship, but as long as they aren't ridiculously overpowered I'm okay if they have a slight edge. Looking forward to another console slot on my D'Kora, which I spent $0 to obtain as I bought it off the Exchange for 80 million EC, earned by crafting Mk XII consoles.
Former/Cryptic Name: Captain_Hans_Langsdorff
Founding member, Special Service Squadron
"Fear God and Dread Nought." First Sea Lord, Adm. Jacky Fisher
Giving the bug another Tac slot gives it a lot more punch than ever before.
I can see the lock box ships becoming more and more desirable and becoming out of the reach of casual players - i bought my Galor for 83mil a while back and i think they are 110+ now, for the D'kora i think theres less than 10 listed now on the exchange
This
The bug ship is now (current state on Tribble) the escort to beat, and I still don't know what to classify the D'Kora as (insane hull, dual cannons and maneuverable). A D'Kora outfitted right can hold all three Cube lanes to the Kang and can take the three Raptors single handed as is and still come and help in the other lane with the remaining Raptors. Dunno to much about the Galor, no one ever impressed me with one, but from what I read above. They were as is gimmick ships in my book, ships with unique quirks that made them appealing to some play styles (until the D'Kora, I still consider it broken on some levels).
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?
Now while we're at it, let's let the B'rel retro's cloak work like it should. No more of this 3-second nonsense.
haters gonna hate
Why should they fix it? it's not like you put in as much money or work for it than those who got the lockbox ships. You get what you pay for, that means you don't deserve a fix.
Lockbox ships need to be teir 5 shipyard projects to keep some balance in the game.
Unless part of the reason they are doing this is for people who aren't in fleets. If this is the case then they would need to be some sort of grind to obtain said upgrades.
Not everyone wants to be in a fleet. I really didn't like how season six was pushing everyone to join/create one just to get new ships. Now it seems they don't have to...
I will spend my monthly stipend here and on Champions...and not a Zen more:(
Fleet or not.. Fact is i make more then 1000 Ferengi Lock Bxes in a Month, if i play extreme in a week,
1 key each box = 900 Cryptic points for 10 = 90 Crypos a key
1000 FerengiRipgamersbox = 90.000 Cryptic Points to open them
90K CP = 90000 : 5 = 180 X 50?
total : 9000 Euro for Ferengi Gaming Company
That makes the game unplayable, even that the storage place wouldnt handle all that stuff
They have rough balance numbers, yes? So they should know what kind of percentage improvement fleet ships are over Tier 5.
So here's what *I* would do.
I'd upgrade the Atrox/Guramba/Galaxy-X/Excelsior/lockbox ships to Fleet Quality.
I'd then come up with a debuff passive power that reduces them in effectiveness by the % that the fleet tier is a boost. This debuff can be removed for fleet marks at Fleet Tier 5.
So, for example: They have 10 consoles. They have a debuff which reduces the effectiveness of consoles by 10% (the net value is roughly the same as 9 consoles), reduces shield modifier by 10%, and reduces hull hitpoints by 4%.
Now what this means is, these ships WOULD see more benefit than standard Tier 5 when it comes to stacking C-Store ability consoles. But in all other respects would still be Tier 5, in terms of balance.
Then when you remove the -10% console stats, -10% shield modifier, and -4% hull debuff, the ship would become fleet tier.
Because these ships would be designed as fleet tier already, just with a debuff that pushes them back down to their current Holodeck levels of effectiveness. (Yes, they'd have 10 consoles instead of 9. But their total console gain would be at 90% effectiveness, effectively making it LIKE they have 9 consoles until they remove the debuff.)
If this is the case then that is ok, I have no troubles in spending a few fleet credits to upgrade my cstore ship so long as it never costs more real life money to do so.
If this is the case then why wasn't the lockbox ships given the same treatment?
I can see a few things.
One is that CBS had to give reluctant approval to these ships. So adding a second version, even limited to owners of the first, might be more difficult than an upgrade.
The other big one is that time, activity, and effort are all completely analogous to money. The plan with the fleet tier is largely to get people to buy DOffs/dilithium/recipes; while people have the option to grind them, Cryptic is hoping people will pay real money RATHER than grind them. And if it's ultimately about money, lockbox ships already cost 8x what the next most expensive ship costs.
Then gradually, over time, allow people to increase the effectiveness of their consoles and hull.
This has a couple of net gains.
First of all, it would de-necessitate separate versions of any T5 ship. The only new ships needed would be ships that don't exist at T5.
Second, it makes C-Store ability consoles significantly more valuable to equip until you've progressed further. Once you've removed all the passive stat debuffs, stat consoles would be ideal. Until then, C-Store ability consoles are patently better than stat improving consoles.
Third, it increases the number of consoles people want to earn, which makes the gearing process take longer.
The problem is, the more I see on tribble and read on these forums makes me not want to get involved.
It is a very very slippery slope cryptic have created that I am not sure people should be taking part in.
I already know it is a lost cause because people have already started sliding down that slope along with them.
I foresee by next year, pvp will be opened up surounding the starbases and all those stories we hear from asia regarding the "castle" type play where you have to survive constant attacks from other fleets or lose everything, is slowly becoming a reality in sto
While only time will tell, I believe this thought might go against how STO is mainly a casual gamer experience. PWE/Cryptic would rather have people pay money because they don't want to grind. Having constant attacks on a starbase would mean players constantly online to defend, which would give them the ability to grind more and purchase less.
If they would do this nobody would by any loack-box anymore
Wow, did I say something to upset you? Are you one of the guys who ended up on my list?
I was just throwing it out there as a nice gimmick to make up for not being able to upgrade the b'rel. I didn't say I deserved anything.
I have many C-Store ships that I bought with cash / Stipend.
I also have the Galor and Dkora that I?ve yet to commission. (Only cost 6 million EC for the keys)
My big question now is what happens with C-Store Ships that we earned with tokens like the Defiant Refit and the Galaxy Retrofit and the like, can we still upgrade them since we have them on the toon?
I tokened my Defiant Refit, Galaxy Refit, Voyager Refit, Kar?Fi and Brel Refit.
Another question of mine is what about stock ships like the Vo?Quv; will there be a fleet version of it and what would be the cost to claim it?
It does seem like a bit of a slap in the face to players the bought any ships from the C-Store to now have to spend more money or grind more dilithium to upgrade their bought and paid for C-Store ships when the lock box ships get the instant upgrade for free.
In terms of the lockbox ships, regardless of what you paid, Cryptic made $200 on every one of them because that's the average cost to obtain and they have a large sample size. Even if you bought keys with EC and got lucky, someone bought those keys with cash and the average cost of obtaining one is what Cryptic makes. (People who get them in few tries are offset by people who never get one, including those not trying to get one.)
In terms of "token'd" ships, all you get from C-Store ships are the costumes and the consoles. None of the token'd ships have a unique C-Store costume. So you got the console. Everything else is earnable. Granted, you only have the console on that one character and can't reclaim it if you lose it but you got the console, which is the only edge a person gets from having the C-Store ship first. (For example: you have the ablative armor console. That's all anyone who bought the C-Store ship would get. The fleet ship is a NEW ship that can equip that console, that anyone can get.)
In terms of the other T5 ships (including stock ships), I believe they're in the fleet store.
In terms of cost, I don't have them handy.
But the Fleet ships come in two tiers. One costs fleet marks, which are earned in-game. Around 5 per easy mission. Some harder stuff can award 50+. A fleet ship costs 25,000 or so and requires joining a fleet that has it unlocked. However, you keep your fleet marks regardless of whether you're in a fleet or not. You don't need to be in a fleet to earn fleet marks; just to spend them. The fleet progress unlocks the store. You keep the marks and anything you buy with them regardless of anything else.
The first fleet version is just a Tier 5 ship. 9 consoles and whatnot. Think of this as an alternative to the C-Store ships, minus the special ability console.
The second fleet version has 10 consoles, improved hull, and improved stat modifier. This one costs 25,000 fleet marks, as I recall, plus 4 design spec thing-ys. These design spec thing-ys can be earned in-game somehow OR purchased from the C-Store for impatient people.
If you have the console, you have the only benefit that the C-Store ship confers over fleet versions.
THAT SAID, the C-Store ships are more powerful than stock T5 ships and being powerful will earn you more fleet marks.
So there are essentially three tiers of ship:
1 Dilithium/token ships at Rear Admiral.
2A Fleet ships/retrofits which cost 25k fleet marks plus require fleet progress
2B C-Store ships, which are like 2A but have a special ability console
3 Fleet marks plus design spec thing-y ships. These require the most massive amount of work. These are the 10 console ships with noticeable stat gains. You could, say, theoretically skip straight to this tier without buying a C-Store ship but you won't get the power console for the high tier ships -- or the power console or costume for the lower tier retrofitted ships.
When you buy ships in the C-Store, you ONLY get two things under the new system:
1. The convenience of having a version of the ship now.
2. The power console.
But you could get a version without the power console without spending a dime. However, the console-less in-game version that is matched to the C-Store ship will probably take most people over 3 months to earn (less if you've maxed duty officer progress and get good at the no-win scenario) and the true upgrade (10 console version) will take OVER 3 months to earn unless you're really good, really progressed, and use the C-Store as a shortcut.
20,000 fleet credits + a C-store Token (no word on price) for a fleet version of a ship.