From my quick trip to the tribble shipyards, all the fleet versions of T5 ships need a c-store schematic, as I recall. The ships that weren't T5 before or are new ships (Aquarius, Ho'sus) come in two flavors, one needs a schematic, the other doesn't. I believe the non-schematic version is slightly weaker.
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Player A spends money on a ship. Player B spends money on a ship.
Player B's ship gets buffed up to match fleet ships
Player A has to grind for months to unlock the privilege of buying their fleet ship 'upgrade' for fleet credits.
The source of the anger should be obvious.
And just for the record, some people with the lockbox ships got them without spending a penny of real money.
You also forgot the many ships that have no Fleet version like the Excelsior, Dreadnought, Guramba and Kar'fi, so now we paid for ships that are going to be left behind and I am sure those Lockbox ships will get another buff down the line when some other big ship change comes into play. The timing of that ship sale was smart since many people bought stuff and once Season 6 comes to Holodeck and they see that they paid for an inferior version of that ship, I am sure they will really want to continue supporting this game by spending real money in the Zen store.
I bought four Tier 5 ships with the Armitage being the latest, only to hear the Fleet Ship podcast a few days after my purchase and it made me really disappointed since I just wasted $25 for an inferior version of that ship. You would think Cryptic would want players that are willing to spend real money on ships to continue to buy more ships in the Zen store but with this current model of the Fleet versions being superior to what I am spending my real money on, why would I bother ever buying another ship for real money again. I have two KDF ships that are on the list for no upgraded Fleet version so now they are going to be on the weaker side and my two Fed ships are outclassed by the Fleet versions of the same ships, that $100 really feels well spent now.
Except that the bug ship, the best escort in the game, got a buff of like 3k shields, 2k hull and another tactical console slot (to 5 slots). And one only got that ship by paying lots of cash or hundreds of millions EC.
Arawn - SOB OP *is* the new balance!
Here's the thing. Is it better to BE the best pure escort?
It's the purest escort and the best pure escort, sure.
But take the D'Kora. It's not a pure anything and I'm pretty sure people who do damage parsing have found it significantly out-DPSes all ships, including the Jem'Hadar bug, while having higher survivability.
MMOs traditionally have a hybrid tax and encourage pure playstyles.
I think STO does the reverse, if anything. My experience is that Tacs are better in cruisers than Engineers. Engineers are better in escorts than Tacs.
I think the Armitage is probably a better option than the Bug. The Bug is a better "pure" escort but the Armitage has all the whistles and bells of any escort and, without any penalty, has better shields and can have a healing pet.
The ONE place where STO rewards specialization is in modifiers. For example, RCS Accelerators do more on a ship that already has higher turnrate. Shield consoles do more for ships with higher shields.
But in general, a good escort is probably worse off for being a pure escort.
I've never flown the bug. I've never flown the D'Kora. (I have one I'm saving for when I can promote my Klingon marauding Ferengi to a playable KDF Captain.) But my observation is that the Bug is worse off, substantially, for being the best escort. A good escort would be an escort that isn't entirely tuned to be escort-like.
Specialization is BAD. The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship specializes heavily at its role. An imperfect escort with pets or heals will be more viable than a straight escort with better escort layout and stats.
Heck, the Vesta sounds like it will be a high turnrate science ship that has a tactical BOff layout and can equip dual heavies... and I think it will probably outclass escorts or science ships in practice. It will probably be even better if it's a science ship with a primary engineering BO focus and dual heavies.
The escort that is the best at being an escort is probably the worst escort. This game is full of quiet "reverse-hybrid taxes."
I'd go so far as to say that outside of some science synergy with sci-ships, you'd be better off to NEVER match your Captain's class with your ship type and that the ideal is probably LESS tanky cruisers, LESS tactically oriented escorts, and (once we see some) very non science-y sci ships.
If there's a concern about one ship being upgraded, it should be the D'Kora and not the bug.
The D'Kora can turn as well as a Galor or Excelsior, can equip dual heavies, and has tons of perks.
The bug is a squishy escort, optimized and specialized at being an escort. The ideal is probably for any ship to be as hybridized as possible, as far from its class' designed role as possible.
Player A spends money on a ship. Player B spends money on a ship.
Player B's ship gets buffed up to match fleet ships
Player A has to grind for months to unlock the privilege of buying their fleet ship 'upgrade' for fleet credits.
The source of the anger should be obvious.
And just for the record, some people with the lockbox ships got them without spending a penny of real money.
The question is how much they spent on the ship.
Every SINGLE lockbox ship generated at least $200 average. (For every one that generated less, many generated more. From Cryptic's POV, it's a $200 ship.) This is without even considering people who bought keys to sell on the exchange to round up the EC to buy one of these ships, effectively netting Cryptic a potential second round of profit if those keys went to folks who weren't trying for the ship and didn't get it.)
The other ships that people paid money for were maybe $25. And Cryptic is maybe angling for another $15 from them to upgrade those ships as per character unlocks.
In the grand scheme of things, the lockbox ship owner already paid their upgrade fee.
Like I said, I'd be all for earning the upgrade. But lockbox ship owners should not be left behind at the Fleet tier.
Nor should Dreadnaught, Excelsior, Kar'fi, or Atrox owners. But I'm sure there will be a way to bring them in the fold too and I'll be arguing for that until it happens.
From my quick trip to the tribble shipyards, all the fleet versions of T5 ships need a c-store schematic, as I recall. The ships that weren't T5 before or are new ships (Aquarius, Ho'sus) come in two flavors, one needs a schematic, the other doesn't. I believe the non-schematic version is slightly weaker.
Have you bought any C-Store ships on Tribble?
Because "owning" them doesn't count unless you've bought them on Tribble, where your C-Store unlocks don't count.
They didn't get that big a buff. The D'kora and Galor now have 3 science consoles instead of 2. Those are dump slots anyway.
The D'kora already had 3 science slots.... I'm hoping they get a 4th engineering or 4th Tactical console slot... being a cruiser I expect it to be another engineering slot tho
Here's the thing. Is it better to BE the best pure escort?
It's the purest escort and the best pure escort, sure.
But take the D'Kora. It's not a pure anything and I'm pretty sure people who do damage parsing have found it significantly out-DPSes all ships, including the Jem'Hadar bug, while having higher survivability.
MMOs traditionally have a hybrid tax and encourage pure playstyles.
I think STO does the reverse, if anything. My experience is that Tacs are better in cruisers than Engineers. Engineers are better in escorts than Tacs.
I think the Armitage is probably a better option than the Bug. The Bug is a better "pure" escort but the Armitage has all the whistles and bells of any escort and, without any penalty, has better shields and can have a healing pet.
The ONE place where STO rewards specialization is in modifiers. For example, RCS Accelerators do more on a ship that already has higher turnrate. Shield consoles do more for ships with higher shields.
But in general, a good escort is probably worse off for being a pure escort.
I've never flown the bug. I've never flown the D'Kora. (I have one I'm saving for when I can promote my Klingon marauding Ferengi to a playable KDF Captain.) But my observation is that the Bug is worse off, substantially, for being the best escort. A good escort would be an escort that isn't entirely tuned to be escort-like.
Specialization is BAD. The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship specializes heavily at its role. An imperfect escort with pets or heals will be more viable than a straight escort with better escort layout and stats.
Heck, the Vesta sounds like it will be a high turnrate science ship that has a tactical BOff layout and can equip dual heavies... and I think it will probably outclass escorts or science ships in practice. It will probably be even better if it's a science ship with a primary engineering BO focus and dual heavies.
The escort that is the best at being an escort is probably the worst escort. This game is full of quiet "reverse-hybrid taxes."
I'd go so far as to say that outside of some science synergy with sci-ships, you'd be better off to NEVER match your Captain's class with your ship type and that the ideal is probably LESS tanky cruisers, LESS tactically oriented escorts, and (once we see some) very non science-y sci ships.
If there's a concern about one ship being upgraded, it should be the D'Kora and not the bug.
The D'Kora can turn as well as a Galor or Excelsior, can equip dual heavies, and has tons of perks.
The bug is a squishy escort, optimized and specialized at being an escort. The ideal is probably for any ship to be as hybridized as possible, as far from its class' designed role as possible.
The special console on the D'kora or namely the Battlemode ability also improves the DPS & Turnrate as well.... I wish I had one for all my Fed toons....
the basic version (no console) can be obtained with just fleet creds. the Retrofit version (more powerful but still no console) needs fleet creds and the cstore schematic. in order to have the console on the ship, you need the actual Cstore version.
P.S. I think those who actually own the Cstore ship should beable to get the Fleet upgraded version for just Fleet points, or A very Reduced cost for the schematic.
But lockbox ship owners should not be left behind at the Fleet tier.
So why not make the 'fleet' lockbox ships require a T3 or whatever starbase and have the old one in your posession before being able to acquire it for a sum of fleet merits.
That's a much fairer solution, rather than giving them an immediate (and completely free) fleet boost, months before anybody else is able to unlock the 'fleet' ships. At least, in my view anyway.
So why not make the 'fleet' lockbox ships require a T3 or whatever starbase and have the old one in your posession before being able to acquire it for a sum of fleet merits.
That's a much fairer solution, rather than giving them an immediate (and completely free) fleet boost, months before anybody else is able to unlock the 'fleet' ships. At least, in my view anyway.
If lockbox ships are so rare because CBS wants them to be, why would they want them to then be upgraded so as to be persistant?
If that excuse is to be believd it would be better if these ships were eventually outclassed so more rare ships can be introduced.
Sounds too much like having your cake and eating it too.
Nobody made anybody gamble to excess to get the flavor of the week.
I still remember rounding up 5 friends to get a Galaxy X that they promptly nerfed and devalued.
I will NEVER forget that.
CBS didn't really like them being in lockboxes, either. They wanted them to be rare. Cryptic ran with the lockbox approach. Here we are.
And if Cryptic starts taking the approach with lockbox ship owners that "nobody made you gamble," I think it would make it harder for them to sell more lockboxes.
Please understand that we want EVERYONE to be in a kingdom...I mean, "fleet". There, everyone can meet at their castle....errr, I mean, "Starbase" and you can upgrade your mount...errrr, I mean horse....I mean, "Starship".
If lockbox ships are so rare because CBS wants them to be, why would they want them to then be upgraded so as to be persistant?
If that excuse is to be believd it would be better if these ships were eventually outclassed so more rare ships can be introduced.
Sounds too much like having your cake and eating it too.
Nobody made anybody gamble to excess to get the flavor of the week.
I still remember rounding up 5 friends to get a Galaxy X that they promptly nerfed and devalued.
I will NEVER forget that.
And there lies another problem.
These lockbox ships have no buisness whatsoever of being competitive with fleet ships, as canonicly they are inferior to modern federation and klingon ships.
Bugships can be busted up like popcorn by Defiants and Bird of Prey's, Galor's are no match for even a nebula class starship, etc.
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid." - Q
And there lies another problem.
These lockbox ships have no buisness whatsoever of being competitive with fleet ships, as canonicly they are inferior to modern federation and klingon ships.
Bugships can be busted up like popcorn by Defiants and Bird of Prey's, Galor's are no match for even a nebula class starship, etc.
Canonicly, warp ten is lizard Janeway and lizard Paris having lizard babies because they occupied every space in the universe at once, including eachother.
So if we move away from the incredibly fickle definitions of canon for a moment and concentrate on the game as it is, we end up with the following situation: We are playing a game in which the Excelsior, from the late 23rd Century is still one of the most able and competitive cruisers in 2409. The B'rel is still one of the finest raiders. Thanks to fleet ships, the venerable K't'inga becomes the equal of the Vor'cha. These fleet ships are the result of upgrades. Logic dictates that these same upgrades could be performed on the Galor (as was stated on the dev blog introducing it), and the D'kora (a new model from a failing company according to the dev blog introducing it).
In fact, the only anomoly is the Jem'Hadar bug ship, which admittedly appears to be a prime condition vintage ship according to the fluff, one that somehow can go toe to toe with a Defiant or a B'rel, yet was swatted by them like flies in DS9. Although that means precisely jack of course, because of character shields (or inverse ninja law, or storm trooper effect). Look how easily the Defiant rolled B'rel class birds of Prey and how easy the blew up until you put Worf, Jadzia or Martok on one. Then it became an absolute pwn mobile. Fact of the matter is, ships on screen were as powerful or as weak as the plot dictated. Nothing more, nothing less. Hell, the Bird of Prey was even as big or small as the plot dictated.
I understand that you're probably knarked, but your post seems to me to be rooted more in sour grapes than actual logic.
Another thing to bear in mind for everyone before you have a burst blood vessel or something: Not all the fleet ships we're going to get are currently there. The Aquarius wasn't the other day but is now, so this doesn't mean that Excelsiors or Garumbas (both of which I have by the way!) will be left in the dirt. Also, I don't think we should necessarily assume that we'll have to make a second purchase. As far as I can tell, we've seen conflicting opinions as to wether or not owning the "original" will exempt you from an additional cash layout to get the fleet version, and no link to any concrete information (if one can be provided I'd be grateful). And considering how seemingly easy it was to gate Spiral Wave disruptors to Galor owners, I don't have much in the way of worries that any ships will be unfairly forgotten or cast by the wayside.
If you wanna get knarked, get knarked about the Galaxy R not getting the same degree of love or flexibility as the Negh'var.
They didn't get that big a buff. The D'kora and Galor now have 3 science consoles instead of 2. Those are dump slots anyway.
The D'kora already had 3 science slots.... I'm hoping they get a 4th engineering or 4th Tactical console slot... being a cruiser I expect it to be another engineering slot tho
The D'Kora got a 4th Engineering slot - I copied my Tac to Tribble an hour ago and noticed the new slot. (I'm currently undecided on what I'm gonnna stick in there... but it's a nice buff on what is already probably the best all-round Fedside ship. Another Tac slot would have been waaaay overkill IMO.)
I certainly will no longer be buying any ships in the cstore or lockboxes. The fact that lockbox ships are getting a free update and cstore ships arent is just absurd. Though since PWE took Cryptic over, the absurd decisions seem to be getting all the more absurd...
This clearly shows that cryptic do not want us buying cstore ships.
Which is why they shouldn't authorize these "Fleet Bugs."
Their time has passed.
It's the more modern Fleet Ships time in the sun.
Less options are not good.
I can totally understand claiming the lockbox upgrades should cost fleet marks. Although the whole point of the system is really, on some level, to monetize per character upgrades, which lockboxes did in spades.
I think it's a pretty much a borderline unacceptable level of sour grapes to say they should be passed over. It's asking Cryptic to jack over lockbox players. If that's your attitude, I hope you DON'T find much satisfaction with the game because you're taking your unhappiness with a policy (one I was very NOT CRAZY about but am warming to) and you want it taken out on other players.
It's the EXACT SAME THING as lifers targeting F2P players or F2P players griping about lifer perks.
People who buy these ships are basically buying another lifetime subscription, given the average level of investment. Asking their viability to be stripped by being outclassed is like asking Cryptic to raise the level cap for everyone except Liberated Borg, because those should be a rare novelty. EXACTLY the same.
Now... I'm totally with you if you think lockbox ships should cost something to upgrade. Although if the whole point of the upgrades is to raise money, a lockbox ship already did that more than a fleet upgrade of a C-Store ship. So, frankly, I can't get all that outraged and would simply thank Cryptic for my upgrade. The game is supposed to provide more power for more cash spent at this point. The idea of penalizing or limiting the value of high ticket items to the extent some here are proposing is silly.
Preventing the lockbox ships from even being upgradeable would be bad for business. Business kinda should be driving the decisions. If you want to say more ships (Excelsior/Kar'fi/etc.) should be upgradeable or upgraded for free as well? That's a valid point, perhaps. Or that all ships that cost above X dollars should get a free upgrade.
If you want fewer options or to limit other players from even having an option to upgrade, that's very small of you.
For me, the negotiation is about effort and money and how much effort and money should be needed, which is not unlike my position on the T5 Connie or the Dreadnaught or anything else, really. The question is whether the existing lockbox ships have taken enough money/effort (and the two are absolutely the same thing, totally interchangeable concepts; effort = money and money = effort) or whether it should require more for an upgrade.
The D'kora already had 3 science slots.... I'm hoping they get a 4th engineering or 4th Tactical console slot... being a cruiser I expect it to be another engineering slot tho
Having more than one toon is a stupid idea since lockboxes.Everything is expsnive and locked on char.Now new fleet ships are locked on char...so why would anyone want to play/experience a sci for example?
And no I am not going to hire someone to grind fleet credits for me.
And just for the record, some people with the lockbox ships got them without spending a penny of real money.
Just for the record - apart from the D'Kora which I bought yesterday for 65 million Energy Credits I also have three C-Store ships (Galaxy Retrofit, Long Range Science Retrofit, B'rel Bird of Prey Retrofit). I haven't spent a penny of real money on those three ships either (gather dilithium and buy ships during sales), so this argument of yours is invalid.
I bought four Tier 5 ships with the Armitage being the latest, only to hear the Fleet Ship podcast a few days after my purchase and it made me really disappointed since I just wasted $25 for an inferior version of that ship.
Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand - you'll have to buy some kind of a token from the store if you don't have a C-Store version of the ship. And if one's interested in having a specific console they still have to buy the ship from the store.
I for example would still buy the Prometheus from the C-Store because for me it has to have a Multi Vector Assault Mode. Then I'll probably buy the new version in the fleet shipyard. On the other hand - I very much like the Akira too but torpedo point defence system doesn't interest me at all so I'll probably settle with the fleet version (I'll have to buy that token from C-Store).
I don't see a problem here. The real problem is what they did to the owners of ships like the Guramba. There is absolutely NO WAY to upgrade those ships.
Actually I just really detest gambling and don't think that people should be rewarded for doing it.
I'm OK with them having to be upgraded the same as the new ones, but no free upgrades.
I'm not crazy about gambling. Not everyone with one of these ships gambled even once.
And technically, to suggest people shouldn't be rewarded for "gambling" now positions you in that category of forum post where you are attacking a class of players. Furries are protected here and you can get in trouble for attacking them. So are Klingons, free players, lifers, etc.
Attacking lockbox item owners (not all of whom "gambled"; some busted their tail for the EC to buy one) or even attacking gamblers in the playerbase? Not really cool. I'd imagine, if this keeps up, it will be the kind of thing infractions go out for.
You can be opposed to raffles, gambling, or bingo. You can say that you think Cryptic shouldn't run these style of events but, frankly, they have no moral qualms with it and are looking for the right delivery method... but the policy of doing it is pretty much non-negotiable. Still, you can hate it from now until doomsday. Nobody says you have to like it.
I don't think you can dump on the people who do the gambling (a class of other player) or cheer on them getting punished.
If you see it as a sin, hate the sin. It's really, really outside the scope of a message board to hate sinners, though, or advocate their punishment. I think if people focus on the vice and the buyer as victim model, you can post til you're blue in the face. I doubt it will change anything big as games of chance and repeatable purchases are the CENTRAL CORE of Cryptic's business model, the reason the game exists, why they keep the servers operational, what the work of around 40 people exists to support. At best, they'll tweak it to be more slick, more polished. Their job is to sell more raffle boxes, after all. And their job is to make a quality Star Trek product that supports these kinds of sales, just like the guy who designed the Star Trek lottery tickets or slot machines. That doesn't mean the Star Trek part goes out the window but, on a level, this a Star Trek-themed toy shop and casino. You can always get MORE Star Trek but you can't ever get less casino in that mix.
But, ultimately, hating on other players just isn't cool. And while I'm not reporting posts, I suspect that if people start seeing infractions going out, that will be the dividing line. It won't be a conspiracy to silence people who speak the truth. It will be, ultimately, that:
You can criticize Cryptic's policy. You can dislike lockboxes and express that dislike all day long. You can't, for moral reasons or any other, express detest for a class of players, including gamblers. Not everybody is racially enlightened or cool with people of all religions, genders, sexualities, or other defining traits. A forum that counts Furries as a protected group will almost certain protrect gamblers and the practice of gambling similarly when the heart of their business model and what they make is a themed raffle. And, honestly, the raffle has been the defining core of what makes an MMO for over ten years now even if the delivery of the raffle system has shifted.
Well it looks like the complainers got what they wanted....we might as well follow the trend and demand for normal ships to be buffed to fleet level... :rolleyes:
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You also forgot the many ships that have no Fleet version like the Excelsior, Dreadnought, Guramba and Kar'fi, so now we paid for ships that are going to be left behind and I am sure those Lockbox ships will get another buff down the line when some other big ship change comes into play. The timing of that ship sale was smart since many people bought stuff and once Season 6 comes to Holodeck and they see that they paid for an inferior version of that ship, I am sure they will really want to continue supporting this game by spending real money in the Zen store.
I bought four Tier 5 ships with the Armitage being the latest, only to hear the Fleet Ship podcast a few days after my purchase and it made me really disappointed since I just wasted $25 for an inferior version of that ship. You would think Cryptic would want players that are willing to spend real money on ships to continue to buy more ships in the Zen store but with this current model of the Fleet versions being superior to what I am spending my real money on, why would I bother ever buying another ship for real money again. I have two KDF ships that are on the list for no upgraded Fleet version so now they are going to be on the weaker side and my two Fed ships are outclassed by the Fleet versions of the same ships, that $100 really feels well spent now.
Here's the thing. Is it better to BE the best pure escort?
It's the purest escort and the best pure escort, sure.
But take the D'Kora. It's not a pure anything and I'm pretty sure people who do damage parsing have found it significantly out-DPSes all ships, including the Jem'Hadar bug, while having higher survivability.
MMOs traditionally have a hybrid tax and encourage pure playstyles.
I think STO does the reverse, if anything. My experience is that Tacs are better in cruisers than Engineers. Engineers are better in escorts than Tacs.
I think the Armitage is probably a better option than the Bug. The Bug is a better "pure" escort but the Armitage has all the whistles and bells of any escort and, without any penalty, has better shields and can have a healing pet.
The ONE place where STO rewards specialization is in modifiers. For example, RCS Accelerators do more on a ship that already has higher turnrate. Shield consoles do more for ships with higher shields.
But in general, a good escort is probably worse off for being a pure escort.
I've never flown the bug. I've never flown the D'Kora. (I have one I'm saving for when I can promote my Klingon marauding Ferengi to a playable KDF Captain.) But my observation is that the Bug is worse off, substantially, for being the best escort. A good escort would be an escort that isn't entirely tuned to be escort-like.
Specialization is BAD. The Jem'Hadar Attack Ship specializes heavily at its role. An imperfect escort with pets or heals will be more viable than a straight escort with better escort layout and stats.
Heck, the Vesta sounds like it will be a high turnrate science ship that has a tactical BOff layout and can equip dual heavies... and I think it will probably outclass escorts or science ships in practice. It will probably be even better if it's a science ship with a primary engineering BO focus and dual heavies.
The escort that is the best at being an escort is probably the worst escort. This game is full of quiet "reverse-hybrid taxes."
I'd go so far as to say that outside of some science synergy with sci-ships, you'd be better off to NEVER match your Captain's class with your ship type and that the ideal is probably LESS tanky cruisers, LESS tactically oriented escorts, and (once we see some) very non science-y sci ships.
If there's a concern about one ship being upgraded, it should be the D'Kora and not the bug.
The D'Kora can turn as well as a Galor or Excelsior, can equip dual heavies, and has tons of perks.
The bug is a squishy escort, optimized and specialized at being an escort. The ideal is probably for any ship to be as hybridized as possible, as far from its class' designed role as possible.
The question is how much they spent on the ship.
Every SINGLE lockbox ship generated at least $200 average. (For every one that generated less, many generated more. From Cryptic's POV, it's a $200 ship.) This is without even considering people who bought keys to sell on the exchange to round up the EC to buy one of these ships, effectively netting Cryptic a potential second round of profit if those keys went to folks who weren't trying for the ship and didn't get it.)
The other ships that people paid money for were maybe $25. And Cryptic is maybe angling for another $15 from them to upgrade those ships as per character unlocks.
In the grand scheme of things, the lockbox ship owner already paid their upgrade fee.
Like I said, I'd be all for earning the upgrade. But lockbox ship owners should not be left behind at the Fleet tier.
Nor should Dreadnaught, Excelsior, Kar'fi, or Atrox owners. But I'm sure there will be a way to bring them in the fold too and I'll be arguing for that until it happens.
Have you bought any C-Store ships on Tribble?
Because "owning" them doesn't count unless you've bought them on Tribble, where your C-Store unlocks don't count.
If that excuse is to be believd it would be better if these ships were eventually outclassed so more rare ships can be introduced.
Sounds too much like having your cake and eating it too.
Nobody made anybody gamble to excess to get the flavor of the week.
I still remember rounding up 5 friends to get a Galaxy X that they promptly nerfed and devalued.
I will NEVER forget that.
The D'kora already had 3 science slots.... I'm hoping they get a 4th engineering or 4th Tactical console slot... being a cruiser I expect it to be another engineering slot tho
The special console on the D'kora or namely the Battlemode ability also improves the DPS & Turnrate as well.... I wish I had one for all my Fed toons....
P.S. I think those who actually own the Cstore ship should beable to get the Fleet upgraded version for just Fleet points, or A very Reduced cost for the schematic.
So why not make the 'fleet' lockbox ships require a T3 or whatever starbase and have the old one in your posession before being able to acquire it for a sum of fleet merits.
That's a much fairer solution, rather than giving them an immediate (and completely free) fleet boost, months before anybody else is able to unlock the 'fleet' ships. At least, in my view anyway.
I agree with this.
CBS didn't really like them being in lockboxes, either. They wanted them to be rare. Cryptic ran with the lockbox approach. Here we are.
And if Cryptic starts taking the approach with lockbox ship owners that "nobody made you gamble," I think it would make it harder for them to sell more lockboxes.
CBS was reluctant to approve the lockbox ships to begin with.
Separate upgraded versions would require additional approvals.
https://youtube.com/user/MyBalkanGaming
Which is why they shouldn't authorize these "Fleet Bugs."
Their time has passed.
It's the more modern Fleet Ships time in the sun.
OFT and much more civil then anything I could say about the matter
a history of sto pvp: 2010 - 2011
a history of sto pvp: 2012 - 2013
Welcome to Star Trek: Onrine!!!!
Please understand that we want EVERYONE to be in a kingdom...I mean, "fleet". There, everyone can meet at their castle....errr, I mean, "Starbase" and you can upgrade your mount...errrr, I mean horse....I mean, "Starship".
Get used to this, guys.
And there lies another problem.
These lockbox ships have no buisness whatsoever of being competitive with fleet ships, as canonicly they are inferior to modern federation and klingon ships.
Bugships can be busted up like popcorn by Defiants and Bird of Prey's, Galor's are no match for even a nebula class starship, etc.
Canonicly, warp ten is lizard Janeway and lizard Paris having lizard babies because they occupied every space in the universe at once, including eachother.
So if we move away from the incredibly fickle definitions of canon for a moment and concentrate on the game as it is, we end up with the following situation: We are playing a game in which the Excelsior, from the late 23rd Century is still one of the most able and competitive cruisers in 2409. The B'rel is still one of the finest raiders. Thanks to fleet ships, the venerable K't'inga becomes the equal of the Vor'cha. These fleet ships are the result of upgrades. Logic dictates that these same upgrades could be performed on the Galor (as was stated on the dev blog introducing it), and the D'kora (a new model from a failing company according to the dev blog introducing it).
In fact, the only anomoly is the Jem'Hadar bug ship, which admittedly appears to be a prime condition vintage ship according to the fluff, one that somehow can go toe to toe with a Defiant or a B'rel, yet was swatted by them like flies in DS9. Although that means precisely jack of course, because of character shields (or inverse ninja law, or storm trooper effect). Look how easily the Defiant rolled B'rel class birds of Prey and how easy the blew up until you put Worf, Jadzia or Martok on one. Then it became an absolute pwn mobile. Fact of the matter is, ships on screen were as powerful or as weak as the plot dictated. Nothing more, nothing less. Hell, the Bird of Prey was even as big or small as the plot dictated.
I understand that you're probably knarked, but your post seems to me to be rooted more in sour grapes than actual logic.
Another thing to bear in mind for everyone before you have a burst blood vessel or something: Not all the fleet ships we're going to get are currently there. The Aquarius wasn't the other day but is now, so this doesn't mean that Excelsiors or Garumbas (both of which I have by the way!) will be left in the dirt. Also, I don't think we should necessarily assume that we'll have to make a second purchase. As far as I can tell, we've seen conflicting opinions as to wether or not owning the "original" will exempt you from an additional cash layout to get the fleet version, and no link to any concrete information (if one can be provided I'd be grateful). And considering how seemingly easy it was to gate Spiral Wave disruptors to Galor owners, I don't have much in the way of worries that any ships will be unfairly forgotten or cast by the wayside.
If you wanna get knarked, get knarked about the Galaxy R not getting the same degree of love or flexibility as the Negh'var.
The D'Kora got a 4th Engineering slot - I copied my Tac to Tribble an hour ago and noticed the new slot. (I'm currently undecided on what I'm gonnna stick in there... but it's a nice buff on what is already probably the best all-round Fedside ship. Another Tac slot would have been waaaay overkill IMO.)
This clearly shows that cryptic do not want us buying cstore ships.
Vice Admiral Five: Federation Patrol Alliance (Personal Alt Fleet).
Captain Shakira: Ferasan Shadow Force.
This isn't difficult to understand.
And lockbox ships ARE c-store. Where do you think the keys come from?
Less options are not good.
I can totally understand claiming the lockbox upgrades should cost fleet marks. Although the whole point of the system is really, on some level, to monetize per character upgrades, which lockboxes did in spades.
I think it's a pretty much a borderline unacceptable level of sour grapes to say they should be passed over. It's asking Cryptic to jack over lockbox players. If that's your attitude, I hope you DON'T find much satisfaction with the game because you're taking your unhappiness with a policy (one I was very NOT CRAZY about but am warming to) and you want it taken out on other players.
It's the EXACT SAME THING as lifers targeting F2P players or F2P players griping about lifer perks.
People who buy these ships are basically buying another lifetime subscription, given the average level of investment. Asking their viability to be stripped by being outclassed is like asking Cryptic to raise the level cap for everyone except Liberated Borg, because those should be a rare novelty. EXACTLY the same.
Now... I'm totally with you if you think lockbox ships should cost something to upgrade. Although if the whole point of the upgrades is to raise money, a lockbox ship already did that more than a fleet upgrade of a C-Store ship. So, frankly, I can't get all that outraged and would simply thank Cryptic for my upgrade. The game is supposed to provide more power for more cash spent at this point. The idea of penalizing or limiting the value of high ticket items to the extent some here are proposing is silly.
Preventing the lockbox ships from even being upgradeable would be bad for business. Business kinda should be driving the decisions. If you want to say more ships (Excelsior/Kar'fi/etc.) should be upgradeable or upgraded for free as well? That's a valid point, perhaps. Or that all ships that cost above X dollars should get a free upgrade.
If you want fewer options or to limit other players from even having an option to upgrade, that's very small of you.
For me, the negotiation is about effort and money and how much effort and money should be needed, which is not unlike my position on the T5 Connie or the Dreadnaught or anything else, really. The question is whether the existing lockbox ships have taken enough money/effort (and the two are absolutely the same thing, totally interchangeable concepts; effort = money and money = effort) or whether it should require more for an upgrade.
D'kora: 39,000 hull hp 1.15 shield mod, 1 engi console slot
Galor: 37,500 hull hp, 1.3 shield mod, 1 sci console slot
Bug: 34,500 hull hp, 1.0 shield mod, 1 tac console slot
I'm OK with them having to be upgraded the same as the new ones, but no free upgrades.
And no I am not going to hire someone to grind fleet credits for me.
Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand - you'll have to buy some kind of a token from the store if you don't have a C-Store version of the ship. And if one's interested in having a specific console they still have to buy the ship from the store.
I for example would still buy the Prometheus from the C-Store because for me it has to have a Multi Vector Assault Mode. Then I'll probably buy the new version in the fleet shipyard. On the other hand - I very much like the Akira too but torpedo point defence system doesn't interest me at all so I'll probably settle with the fleet version (I'll have to buy that token from C-Store).
I don't see a problem here. The real problem is what they did to the owners of ships like the Guramba. There is absolutely NO WAY to upgrade those ships.
I'm not crazy about gambling. Not everyone with one of these ships gambled even once.
And technically, to suggest people shouldn't be rewarded for "gambling" now positions you in that category of forum post where you are attacking a class of players. Furries are protected here and you can get in trouble for attacking them. So are Klingons, free players, lifers, etc.
Attacking lockbox item owners (not all of whom "gambled"; some busted their tail for the EC to buy one) or even attacking gamblers in the playerbase? Not really cool. I'd imagine, if this keeps up, it will be the kind of thing infractions go out for.
You can be opposed to raffles, gambling, or bingo. You can say that you think Cryptic shouldn't run these style of events but, frankly, they have no moral qualms with it and are looking for the right delivery method... but the policy of doing it is pretty much non-negotiable. Still, you can hate it from now until doomsday. Nobody says you have to like it.
I don't think you can dump on the people who do the gambling (a class of other player) or cheer on them getting punished.
If you see it as a sin, hate the sin. It's really, really outside the scope of a message board to hate sinners, though, or advocate their punishment. I think if people focus on the vice and the buyer as victim model, you can post til you're blue in the face. I doubt it will change anything big as games of chance and repeatable purchases are the CENTRAL CORE of Cryptic's business model, the reason the game exists, why they keep the servers operational, what the work of around 40 people exists to support. At best, they'll tweak it to be more slick, more polished. Their job is to sell more raffle boxes, after all. And their job is to make a quality Star Trek product that supports these kinds of sales, just like the guy who designed the Star Trek lottery tickets or slot machines. That doesn't mean the Star Trek part goes out the window but, on a level, this a Star Trek-themed toy shop and casino. You can always get MORE Star Trek but you can't ever get less casino in that mix.
But, ultimately, hating on other players just isn't cool. And while I'm not reporting posts, I suspect that if people start seeing infractions going out, that will be the dividing line. It won't be a conspiracy to silence people who speak the truth. It will be, ultimately, that:
You can criticize Cryptic's policy. You can dislike lockboxes and express that dislike all day long. You can't, for moral reasons or any other, express detest for a class of players, including gamblers. Not everybody is racially enlightened or cool with people of all religions, genders, sexualities, or other defining traits. A forum that counts Furries as a protected group will almost certain protrect gamblers and the practice of gambling similarly when the heart of their business model and what they make is a themed raffle. And, honestly, the raffle has been the defining core of what makes an MMO for over ten years now even if the delivery of the raffle system has shifted.
I still haven't heard anything from the devs, but did they update C-Store ships?
LTS, here since...when did this game launch again?