Caitian physiology correction/improvements

blackmarch0 · July 2012

Can we have the caitians get the proper lower leg form (ankle and foot portions need to be extended and more reminescent of canine/feline physiolgy).. as well as having more hair and mane options, especially for the females?

tharkan · July 2012

Well there is a bit of a problem with your suggestion. You want Caitians to be more like the way they were in soft canon and in the animated series (and i am confused on whether or not that is considered soft canon or regular canon). However, Caitians in STO are, as far as I can tell, following the canon of the movies/shows that they appeared in, in which case they are physiologically correct.

capnmanx · July 2012

tharkan wrote: »

Well there is a bit of a problem with your suggestion. You want Caitians to be more like the way they were in soft canon and in the animated series (and i am confused on whether or not that is considered soft canon or regular canon). However, Caitians in STO are, as far as I can tell, following the canon of the movies/shows that they appeared in, in which case they are physiologically correct.

There's no point putting something in the game if you aren't going to spare a thought for why people wanted it in the first place. The Caitians in the films were significant only because they secured the species' place in canon; M'Ress is the only one who really has fans, because she was the only one who really qualifies as a character. Naturally, the TAS version is what most folks were thinking of whenever the subject of Caitians came up.

eiledon · July 2012

it's not just a matter of changing the character models though, there are all the costume options to be rerigged to fit the altered physiology. And if they don't rerig the clothing they are reducing their profit options for those playing caitian (not going to buy a uniform you can't wear). If they do rerig the clothing then every new outfit would have to be created in two forms - humanoid lower limbs and caitian/ferasan lower limb - additional workload for somewhat limited return.

not to mention creating animation cycles for crouching, running, sitting etc.

nice thought but can't see it being implemented to be honest.

capnmanx · July 2012

eiledon wrote: »

it's not just a matter of changing the character models though, there are all the costume options to be rerigged to fit the altered physiology. And if they don't rerig the clothing they are reducing their profit options for those playing caitian (not going to buy a uniform you can't wear). If they do rerig the clothing then every new outfit would have to be created in two forms - humanoid lower limbs and caitian/ferasan lower limb - additional workload for somewhat limited return.

not to mention creating animation cycles for crouching, running, sitting etc.

nice thought but can't see it being implemented to be honest.

Possibly, but I don't think it would need to be any more complicated than adding a new set of boots (unless they wanted to add Caitian specific variants of existing footwear, which would be interesting). A species that walks around on its tip-toes wouldn't need to be any different from a human character wearing high heels (except, without the heels... obviously).

zokiro12 · July 2012

I'd definitely like to see digitigrade leg options for the Caitian and Ferasan models. With or without boots, they'd look great, and the problem of boots could be solved in the same way as the Gorn: just don't have boots. We already have such leg options in Cryptic's other title, Champions Online, so I think they could pretty easily transfer the code from one engine to another in order to make digitigrade legs an option at least.

Also. Moar Caitian, Ferasan and Gorn parts in the alien creator please.

Edit: oh, and also, more mane-like hair options for Ferasan and Caitian females. One thing I loved about M'Ress was the hair she had, that long mane. I'd love it if my character could have something like that.

eiledon · July 2012

not saying i wouldnt like it if my T'Challa was more cat-like, just saying unlikely they will devote time to it. Look at the half assed hair options, even the recent Ferasan additions leave me cold.

That would have been the perfect opportunity to rebuild the Caitian/Ferasan model (especially seeing the Tholian multi jointed legs) however there is a cost income ratio applied to a lot of these things.

psiameese · July 2012

With regard to which legs are canon to the movie Caitian, we actually never see their booted feet in any of the Star Trek IV Council Chamber scenes. What does this mean? It means that we really don't know if Caitian are a plantigrade or digigrade species in the movie.

The obvious choice is to refer back to the cartoon.

So to make the STO Caitian digigrade is a matter of creative choice by the Dev team. As well as interest in setting aside Art Team time for costume assets to accommodate the change. While factoring in Ferasan art assets as well. A bootless option, as well as more than one type of boots would be necessary.

This is not an overnight task. But one that can be done should the Dev team choose to implement a more polished species. Which could benefit further creativity for additional species.

blackmarch0 · July 2012

capnmanx wrote: »

There's no point putting something in the game if you aren't going to spare a thought for why people wanted it in the first place. The Caitians in the films were significant only because they secured the species' place in canon; M'Ress is the only one who really has fans, because she was the only one who really qualifies as a character. Naturally, the TAS version is what most folks were thinking of whenever the subject of Caitians came up.

I agree.
I'd wager that something more nonhuman would be preferred by a majority of players rather than having a cat head stuck on a human body.
My guess as to why they were done like they are currently is because it probably reduced a lot of actual workload for the designers. But yes i'd also guess that the TAS caitian is what mosts think of. It's also the one i'd go with since thats where they were introduced and had the most appearances.

As for the movies the one that actually looks caitian you don't get to see the lower of the portion of the body. the one you do is different enough that it may be another species.

capnmanx wrote: »

Possibly, but I don't think it would need to be any more complicated than adding a new set of boots (unless they wanted to add Caitian specific variants of existing footwear, which would be interesting). A species that walks around on its tip-toes wouldn't need to be any different from a human character wearing high heels (except, without the heels... obviously).

I dont think the upper (torso) options would have to be altered. basically the changes would be in the lower leg.. I'd imagine that just removing the boots and perhaps just expanding the leg clothing model abit to provide a little more room, and then maybe a different animation for the foot. so I don't think it would be a total revamp just a few modifications.
and no its probably not going to be important enough to get on the list for quite some time if at all (here's to hopin for it here).

sesshimato · July 2012

blackmarch0 wrote: »

I agree.
I'd wager that something more nonhuman would be preferred by a majority of players rather than having a cat head stuck on a human body.
My guess as to why they were done like they are currently is because it probably reduced a lot of actual workload for the designers. But yes i'd also guess that the TAS caitian is what mosts think of. It's also the one i'd go with since thats where they were introduced and had the most appearances.

As for the movies the one that actually looks caitian you don't get to see the lower of the portion of the body. the one you do is different enough that it may be another species.

I dont think the upper (torso) options would have to be altered. basically the changes would be in the lower leg.. I'd imagine that just removing the boots and perhaps just expanding the leg clothing model abit to provide a little more room, and then maybe a different animation for the foot. so I don't think it would be a total revamp just a few modifications.
and no its probably not going to be important enough to get on the list for quite some time if at all (here's to hopin for it here).

I know that this is a dead topic, but I wanted to put my two cents into this.

It is not just as simple as clothing modifying, and such. The actual MODEL would have to be retooled, then re-rigged to the skeleton. Not to mention the model skeleton would have to be reworked.

Then, they would have to re-rig the clothing\skinning and then make a whole new pants\dress\whatever to match.

It's actually alot more involved than alot of people\nerds\players think.

I've done some of that stuff in the past, and I'll tell ya'll it's a pain in the TRIBBLE. Period.

yukonsam · July 2012

To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy to just have some big hair. The styles we've been given are a definite step forward, and I'm thankful we've finally got something, but I'd like to see some more momentum in the direction of full-blown manes.

Proportional and positional changes to rigging can be batched. They may need fine tuning after the batch runs, but it's a lot less work that doing everything manually (which IS a royal pain).

Caitian physiology correction/improvements

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