Do u wanna have endgame ships without be part of a fleet? Ok, i wanna have endgame ships without spent real money.
I believe everything should be able to be earned in-game through normal gameplay. C-Store-only ships are just as bad as fleet-gated ships (and for the record, I have not purchased a C-Store ship or a Lockbox ship, and have no plans to ever do so). FYI, not being in a fleet does not mean one doesn't participate in groups activities- I have logged many, many STFs and have a robust friends list. I simply don't care for the drama guilds/fleets seem to breed.
I left EVE Online specifically to get away from needing to be in player-run organizations to be competitive. You didn't NEED to be in a corporation in that game either, but....
So. Lemme understand this clearly (as no transcript of the podcast whatever is out, and I don't have time or will to listen to the entire thing.)
My recently bought Excelsior, using gifted c-points and dilithium I farmed for a good while, is going to be obsolete when starbases come out, because they'll have a +1 variant?
And to get the new excelsior/excelsior look, I must get into a fleet that is uber-awesome/has some members willing to put a lot of money into it?
BLAH is my response.
I'm a silver player, and unable to put money into c-points myself, but if this is saying I have to put lots more time and effort into a game I'm already burning out on (STF's on a single character have reduced my interest in the endgame greatly at the moment. At least until they put the XII gear onto EDC's as well...). It's just not good I think.
I've bought almost every fed ship as I'm completely in love with trek and I love flying different tubs. I'm not adverse to spending for the things I love. The issue I have is the fact the
At a game that allows for so much choice seems to be forcing our hands in to joining a fleet.
Please, PWE, let us make ou own choices without penalizing us.
It would be nice to have a little more clarification on how the C-Store "fleet tokens" are going to work, what they're going to cost, and which ships will require them.
I would say that they should work it so that if you already have the C-Store ship, you don't need to buy a token for the fleet version. You'd still have to advance your shipyards, do the provisioning projects, and spend fleet credits so it wouldn't completely negate the point of fleet advancement while being entirely fair.
Would that be more or less acceptable?
I would also point out that the fleet ships will be per-character while the C-Store ships are account-wide. If you have to buy a token for each fleet ship, the C-Store version might wind up being less expensive. Depends on the cost of tokens.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
I think it's way to early to get all upset over this stuff. We won't be seeing fleet ships for 7 months after release minimum. There's going to be a heck of a lot happening in the next 7-8 months. I'm sure that STO isn't going to kill it's own revenue stream.
Unless the text on tribble is wrong, or I'm reading it wrong, not every fleet ship requires a tier 5 shipyard. Some only need a tier 1, and even the science refits mainly require tier 3 and below, with the LRSV being the tier 5 exception. It's mainly, from what I can tell, the cruisers that require the highest tiers on average. So really, you could be seeing fleet Olympics flying around soon after S6 launches.
It would be nice to have a little more clarification on how the C-Store "fleet tokens" are going to work, what they're going to cost, and which ships will require them.
.
LOL. i just had an evil thought. what if they put the "fleet ship tokens" in lockboxes.
LOL. i just had an evil thought. what if they put the "fleet ship tokens" in lockboxes.
Bwahahahaha..
If they do, I will blame you....and I have a particular set of skills that allow me to track people like you down, and deliver vengeance the likes of which only Liam Neeson can imagine! :P
I drive a brand new car. Next year when the slightly better model comes out should I go to the dealer and demand a free upgrade? Yeah, sounds pretty stupid to me too.
On a fair and logical note. I believe C-store ships should have the option to upgrade, via cash or grind.But saying you didn't get your money's worth out of your ship contridicts the reason you bought it in the first place, that being because you thought it was worth it at the time, and I bet you had fun.
I think it's way to early to get all upset over this stuff. We won't be seeing fleet ships for 7 months after release minimum. There's going to be a heck of a lot happening in the next 7-8 months. I'm sure that STO isn't going to kill it's own revenue stream.
Tier 1 shipyard fleet ships will probably be hitting the space docks a couple weeks after launch, if it even takes that long.. It will be months before we see one of those crazy 5 Tac console Defiants though, and many months before we start seeing some of the BoPs and Sci ships.
Well the problem is the c-store ships are not as good as the fleet versions. As a company who relies heavily on the c-store for the majority of their income from this game now with f2p it doesn't make a whole lot of sense especially when they are upsetting the people who have been supporting the game paying for these ships. This imo is a real bad move, a big loss of income will result, unless the c-store ships can either be equal to the fleet ships or better.
Remember to get the good fleet version your still gonna shell out to the C-store to get the token to buy the fleet ship, so they're making money either way.
"..and like children playing after sunset, we were surrounded by darkness." -Ruri Hoshino
They already talked about this even though they are selling the c-store ship look a likes in fleet versions they will be missing on huge thing and that is the console. now i know this dose not sound like much but think about it. you are already in possession of a low level c-store ship and they make it a fleet one. hurry you can now fly it if you did not buy it but your missing your console for that ship. so what do you do you spend the 2000 c-store points to get the console. lol its actually an ingenious way of doing it and i take my hat off to pwe they sure do know how to get us intrigued.
over all its better to get the fleet version of one particular ship and then if you have the console to just switch it over to the fleet level. I know i may even hang up my Ferengi ship for the carrier or even the Negvar.
Remember to get the good fleet version your still gonna shell out to the C-store to get the token to buy the fleet ship, so they're making money either way.
The biggest issue is us being ripped off, those of us who have just bought ships form the C-store and are now told to be happy with a console and costume for 2000CP.
They already talked about this even though they are selling the c-store ship look a likes in fleet versions they will be missing on huge thing and that is the console. now i know this dose not sound like much but think about it. you are already in possession of a low level c-store ship and they make it a fleet one. hurry you can now fly it if you did not buy it but your missing your console for that ship. so what do you do you spend the 2000 c-store points to get the console. lol its actually an ingenious way of doing it and i take my hat off to pwe they sure do know how to get us intrigued.
over all its better to get the fleet version of one particular ship and then if you have the console to just switch it over to the fleet level. I know i may even hang up my Ferengi ship for the carrier or even the Negvar.
2000CP for a console, a lousy console? I did not pay 2000CP for a console and costume, I bought the ship for the ship, for a top level ship. It's insulting and no way to treat their customers. I bought a tier 5 ship as I was lead to believe that it was a top end ship, if I had fair warning that it wasn't going to be for much longer I wouldn't have bought the last 5 c-store General/Admiral ships. They directly mislead their customers, waited until only weeks before season 6 is supposed to come out to let us know about this and even had sales to try and make more people buy these soon to be obsolete ships.
And as a matter of fact, I don't use the tier 5 level consoles, in fact the two c-store consoles and 1 weapon I actually use come from commander and captain level c-store ships.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
I'm sorry, maybe I am missing something... let me restate the general feeling as I see it...
Complaint 1: Fleet Ships are better than C-Store Ships... unfair to those who bought C-Store Ships.
Complaint 2: Fleet Ships are not available to non-fleet aligned players.
Lets address complaint 1; The fact that a player bought a C-Store ship, or multiple C-Store ships having an issue with a newer, upgraded ship just doesn't make sense to me. So, whenever a new ship comes out, if you have at anytime bought a C-Store ship, you should get the bonus/add on? So there can be no new upgrades to ships.... ever? Unless you get the upgrade for free? Several of you have commented that you have bought multiple "end-game +1 ships"... if they were truly end-game, why would you need more than 1? For that matter, who ever said the c-store ships were end game? Link to post by a developer please....
Response 2: A ship that is a reward for being a part of a team that has grinded for months to achieve a goal... yes... it should be available only to those that participated in the grind. Absolutely, finally... something that cant be just bought with a credit card. Second point here is that it is considered a disadvantage to those who choose not to join a fleet.... well yeah... or... create your own fleet of one, and grind away. Nothing saying this cant be done.
EDIT: The premise of the argument is invalid... since it is possible to be a fleet of 1... while it will take longer to earn, it is possible. Non-Aligned Players are not excluded in any manner.
Also, doesnt seem that anyone is taking skill into account here... I have seen the HEC handle itself well, and on the other hand get utterly decimated by a higher skilled player, in an older ship "free" ship. Same for any C-Store ship. but I wouldnt say that the purchased ships give any more real advantage if you take skill into account. Does that mean that an experienced captain in a new fleet ship wont have some advantage? Sure..BUT to earn that advantage the player has grinded (or ground) for months to earn it.... they should have a reasonable expectation to a better ship.
FYI:
I have bought multiple c-store ships (too many actually... 1 i literally used for a single day) ... many are rusting away in a spacedock somewhere... consoles still installed. Have bought multiple gamma packs looking for bug ship (got one, but found i prefer the Defiant retrofit., opened multiple lockboxes for a galor, and da'kora (got neither), and reinforcement packs for the freighter (didnt get one). Point being, I am guilty of paying to win, or paying (repeatedly) for the new and shiny.
It would be nice to have a little more clarification on how the C-Store "fleet tokens" are going to work, what they're going to cost, and which ships will require them.
From what I've heard, it seems the actually worthwhile version of the new Ships is going to require said tokens.
So, not only pay to win is still alive and well, it's even more prevalent than before! Rejoice, a swipe of daddy's credit card can still buy you better stuff than that which must be earned!
From what I've heard, it seems the actually worthwhile version of the new Ships is going to require said tokens.
So, not only pay to win is still alive and well, it's even more prevalent than before! Rejoice, a swipe of daddy's credit card can still buy you better stuff than that which must be earned!
now hold on, 'daddy's credit card getting you better stuff than that which must be earned' is a gross simplification. You can't just swipe your card and have a t5 space station.
now hold on, 'daddy's credit card getting you better stuff than that which must be earned' is a gross simplification. You can't just swipe your card and have a t5 space station.
But by being able to swipe daddy's credit card to get anything available from a T5 Space Station... whats the difference?
Am I missing something? Granted, I have not been on Tribble so I don't know everything that these upgrades include, but is it really just a skin, a console slot, and some hull points? Please tell me that isn't what everyone is fighting about... there must be more to it than that.
When people start blatantly insulting each other, there must be some kind of valid reason. I mean, "Daddy's credit card"? Really? Wow. What is inspiring all this derision and hate? You hate the people that pay for this stuff so we can play for free? How does that make any sense?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Cleverly disguised as myself - Helmsmn2
From what I've heard, it seems the actually worthwhile version of the new Ships is going to require said tokens.
So, not only pay to win is still alive and well, it's even more prevalent than before! Rejoice, a swipe of daddy's credit card can still buy you better stuff than that which must be earned!
now hold on, 'daddy's credit card getting you better stuff than that which must be earned' is a gross simplification. You can't just swipe your card and have a t5 space station.
But by being able to swipe daddy's credit card to get anything available from a T5 Space Station... whats the difference?
Wait a sec... From what has been stated (in the Al Rivera interview, I think), the fleet ships that will require fleet tokens from the C-Store WILL also require all of the other fleet inputs. You will still need to build a shipyard, you will still need to contribute to provisioning projects, and you will still need to earn fleet credits.
"Daddy's credit card" by itself will NOT buy anybody a fleet ship.
Also, I understood that the fleet tokens would be considerably cheaper than buying a C-Store ship outright. How much cheaper, we don't yet know. Somewhere under 400 probably, since that's the cheapest starship you can buy.
The purpose of the tokens is simply to give Cryptic a way to monetize certain fleet ships... from what I recall, they won't all need tokens to buy. I don't recall what the criteria was for which ships would need tokens and which wouldn't.
The upshot is, you will still be able to get free or "nearly free" ships in exchange for grinding fleet advancement. I don't see what's unfair about it without seeing it in practice. I imagine there will be convoluted ways of accelerating resource gathering with real money, but most people won't do it.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Am I missing something? Granted, I have not been on Tribble so I don't know everything that these upgrades include, but is it really just a skin, a console slot, and some hull points? Please tell me that isn't what everyone is fighting about... there must be more to it than that.
When people start blatantly insulting each other, there must be some kind of valid reason. I mean, "Daddy's credit card"? Really? Wow. What is inspiring all this derision and hate? You hate the people that pay for this stuff so we can play for free? How does that make any sense?
The problem is, some players of paid a significant amount of real money to play this game well before it went to F2P. Some of them don't like the fact that now to get anything new, you have to spend more money, on top of what you already put in (or continue to put in if you have a sub). F2P made subs pointless and devalued lifetime subscriptions significantly.
The F2P model for this game is absolutely horrible. The devs should have looked at Turbine's model for LOTRO and DDO. It isn't perfect and relies too much on the store for my taste, but at least those paying subscriptions get real and ongoing value for the money they put into the game.
I don't have a problem with those that whip out the credit card to buy anything in the store, I have a problem with the F2P model that allows them to do that, yet doesn't allow me to earn the same things by playing the game. I don't mind a reasonable grind or difficult content in order to earn it, but I should be able to earn it without ever having to deal with the store.
While I'm at it, I might as well join others in pointing out why fleet ships are not unfair to people who bought C-Store ships...
1. C-Store ships are account-wide, fleet ships will be per-character.
2. C-Store ships can be bought immediately and are easy to obtain. Fleet ships will be more difficult to obtain and will take much longer to get.
3. C-Store ships come with "specials" like universal consoles and unique abilities that fleet ships will not have.
4. Fleet ships might be considered a kind of "upgrade" to an existing C-Store ship... especially if owning the C-Store version means you don't have to buy a ship token to get one. Your C-Store consoles and skins can be transferred onto the fleet version.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
Also, doesnt seem that anyone is taking skill into account here... I have seen the HEC handle itself well, and on the other hand get utterly decimated by a higher skilled player, in an older ship "free" ship. Same for any C-Store ship. but I wouldnt say that the purchased ships give any more real advantage if you take skill into account. Does that mean that an experienced captain in a new fleet ship wont have some advantage? Sure..BUT to earn that advantage the player has grinded (or ground) for months to earn it.... they should have a reasonable expectation to a better ship.
This. I think when all is said and done, skill plays a greater part in how a ship performs rather than its base stats and whatever console it has installed. If you don't know what you are doing, having a top-end fleet refit is not going to make a difference against a well-balanced C-Store ship.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
You will have to carefully listen al riviera's interview instead of reading trolls in this thread. He said that there were c-store versions of fleet ships.
Comments
I believe everything should be able to be earned in-game through normal gameplay. C-Store-only ships are just as bad as fleet-gated ships (and for the record, I have not purchased a C-Store ship or a Lockbox ship, and have no plans to ever do so). FYI, not being in a fleet does not mean one doesn't participate in groups activities- I have logged many, many STFs and have a robust friends list. I simply don't care for the drama guilds/fleets seem to breed.
My recently bought Excelsior, using gifted c-points and dilithium I farmed for a good while, is going to be obsolete when starbases come out, because they'll have a +1 variant?
And to get the new excelsior/excelsior look, I must get into a fleet that is uber-awesome/has some members willing to put a lot of money into it?
BLAH is my response.
I'm a silver player, and unable to put money into c-points myself, but if this is saying I have to put lots more time and effort into a game I'm already burning out on (STF's on a single character have reduced my interest in the endgame greatly at the moment. At least until they put the XII gear onto EDC's as well...). It's just not good I think.
At a game that allows for so much choice seems to be forcing our hands in to joining a fleet.
Please, PWE, let us make ou own choices without penalizing us.
I would say that they should work it so that if you already have the C-Store ship, you don't need to buy a token for the fleet version. You'd still have to advance your shipyards, do the provisioning projects, and spend fleet credits so it wouldn't completely negate the point of fleet advancement while being entirely fair.
Would that be more or less acceptable?
I would also point out that the fleet ships will be per-character while the C-Store ships are account-wide. If you have to buy a token for each fleet ship, the C-Store version might wind up being less expensive. Depends on the cost of tokens.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
LOL. i just had an evil thought. what if they put the "fleet ship tokens" in lockboxes.
Bwahahahaha..
If they do, I will blame you....and I have a particular set of skills that allow me to track people like you down, and deliver vengeance the likes of which only Liam Neeson can imagine! :P
On a fair and logical note. I believe C-store ships should have the option to upgrade, via cash or grind.But saying you didn't get your money's worth out of your ship contridicts the reason you bought it in the first place, that being because you thought it was worth it at the time, and I bet you had fun.
Tier 1 shipyard fleet ships will probably be hitting the space docks a couple weeks after launch, if it even takes that long.. It will be months before we see one of those crazy 5 Tac console Defiants though, and many months before we start seeing some of the BoPs and Sci ships.
This is what is already planned, but people love complaining even before stuff is released anyway. I guess it's their little pleasure.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.
Reference?
Remember to get the good fleet version your still gonna shell out to the C-store to get the token to buy the fleet ship, so they're making money either way.
Is it a "Spend lots of time and effort to upgrade your starbase, then having to shell out 1600 points to get a fleet excelsior"?
over all its better to get the fleet version of one particular ship and then if you have the console to just switch it over to the fleet level. I know i may even hang up my Ferengi ship for the carrier or even the Negvar.
The biggest issue is us being ripped off, those of us who have just bought ships form the C-store and are now told to be happy with a console and costume for 2000CP.
Sorry but there won't be a fleet Excelsior as it doesn't come with a console.
2000CP for a console, a lousy console? I did not pay 2000CP for a console and costume, I bought the ship for the ship, for a top level ship. It's insulting and no way to treat their customers. I bought a tier 5 ship as I was lead to believe that it was a top end ship, if I had fair warning that it wasn't going to be for much longer I wouldn't have bought the last 5 c-store General/Admiral ships. They directly mislead their customers, waited until only weeks before season 6 is supposed to come out to let us know about this and even had sales to try and make more people buy these soon to be obsolete ships.
And as a matter of fact, I don't use the tier 5 level consoles, in fact the two c-store consoles and 1 weapon I actually use come from commander and captain level c-store ships.
Complaint 1: Fleet Ships are better than C-Store Ships... unfair to those who bought C-Store Ships.
Complaint 2: Fleet Ships are not available to non-fleet aligned players.
Lets address complaint 1; The fact that a player bought a C-Store ship, or multiple C-Store ships having an issue with a newer, upgraded ship just doesn't make sense to me. So, whenever a new ship comes out, if you have at anytime bought a C-Store ship, you should get the bonus/add on? So there can be no new upgrades to ships.... ever? Unless you get the upgrade for free? Several of you have commented that you have bought multiple "end-game +1 ships"... if they were truly end-game, why would you need more than 1? For that matter, who ever said the c-store ships were end game? Link to post by a developer please....
Response 2: A ship that is a reward for being a part of a team that has grinded for months to achieve a goal... yes... it should be available only to those that participated in the grind. Absolutely, finally... something that cant be just bought with a credit card. Second point here is that it is considered a disadvantage to those who choose not to join a fleet.... well yeah... or... create your own fleet of one, and grind away. Nothing saying this cant be done.
EDIT: The premise of the argument is invalid... since it is possible to be a fleet of 1... while it will take longer to earn, it is possible. Non-Aligned Players are not excluded in any manner.
Also, doesnt seem that anyone is taking skill into account here... I have seen the HEC handle itself well, and on the other hand get utterly decimated by a higher skilled player, in an older ship "free" ship. Same for any C-Store ship. but I wouldnt say that the purchased ships give any more real advantage if you take skill into account. Does that mean that an experienced captain in a new fleet ship wont have some advantage? Sure..BUT to earn that advantage the player has grinded (or ground) for months to earn it.... they should have a reasonable expectation to a better ship.
FYI:
I have bought multiple c-store ships (too many actually... 1 i literally used for a single day) ... many are rusting away in a spacedock somewhere... consoles still installed. Have bought multiple gamma packs looking for bug ship (got one, but found i prefer the Defiant retrofit., opened multiple lockboxes for a galor, and da'kora (got neither), and reinforcement packs for the freighter (didnt get one). Point being, I am guilty of paying to win, or paying (repeatedly) for the new and shiny.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
From what I've heard, it seems the actually worthwhile version of the new Ships is going to require said tokens.
So, not only pay to win is still alive and well, it's even more prevalent than before! Rejoice, a swipe of daddy's credit card can still buy you better stuff than that which must be earned!
That's a shame.... a real shame.
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
But by being able to swipe daddy's credit card to get anything available from a T5 Space Station... whats the difference?
Star Trek Online, Now with out the Trek....
When people start blatantly insulting each other, there must be some kind of valid reason. I mean, "Daddy's credit card"? Really? Wow. What is inspiring all this derision and hate? You hate the people that pay for this stuff so we can play for free? How does that make any sense?
Wait a sec... From what has been stated (in the Al Rivera interview, I think), the fleet ships that will require fleet tokens from the C-Store WILL also require all of the other fleet inputs. You will still need to build a shipyard, you will still need to contribute to provisioning projects, and you will still need to earn fleet credits.
"Daddy's credit card" by itself will NOT buy anybody a fleet ship.
Also, I understood that the fleet tokens would be considerably cheaper than buying a C-Store ship outright. How much cheaper, we don't yet know. Somewhere under 400 probably, since that's the cheapest starship you can buy.
The purpose of the tokens is simply to give Cryptic a way to monetize certain fleet ships... from what I recall, they won't all need tokens to buy. I don't recall what the criteria was for which ships would need tokens and which wouldn't.
The upshot is, you will still be able to get free or "nearly free" ships in exchange for grinding fleet advancement. I don't see what's unfair about it without seeing it in practice. I imagine there will be convoluted ways of accelerating resource gathering with real money, but most people won't do it.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The problem is, some players of paid a significant amount of real money to play this game well before it went to F2P. Some of them don't like the fact that now to get anything new, you have to spend more money, on top of what you already put in (or continue to put in if you have a sub). F2P made subs pointless and devalued lifetime subscriptions significantly.
The F2P model for this game is absolutely horrible. The devs should have looked at Turbine's model for LOTRO and DDO. It isn't perfect and relies too much on the store for my taste, but at least those paying subscriptions get real and ongoing value for the money they put into the game.
I don't have a problem with those that whip out the credit card to buy anything in the store, I have a problem with the F2P model that allows them to do that, yet doesn't allow me to earn the same things by playing the game. I don't mind a reasonable grind or difficult content in order to earn it, but I should be able to earn it without ever having to deal with the store.
1. C-Store ships are account-wide, fleet ships will be per-character.
2. C-Store ships can be bought immediately and are easy to obtain. Fleet ships will be more difficult to obtain and will take much longer to get.
3. C-Store ships come with "specials" like universal consoles and unique abilities that fleet ships will not have.
4. Fleet ships might be considered a kind of "upgrade" to an existing C-Store ship... especially if owning the C-Store version means you don't have to buy a ship token to get one. Your C-Store consoles and skins can be transferred onto the fleet version.
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
This. I think when all is said and done, skill plays a greater part in how a ship performs rather than its base stats and whatever console it has installed. If you don't know what you are doing, having a top-end fleet refit is not going to make a difference against a well-balanced C-Store ship.
Cryptic: If you think the bugs are bad, wait until you see our fixes!
You will have to carefully listen al riviera's interview instead of reading trolls in this thread. He said that there were c-store versions of fleet ships.
/thread.
God, lvl 60 CW. 17k.