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Suggestions and Concerns about Season 6 Fleet Ships
majesticmsfc
Member Posts: 1,401 Arc User
A relative hot and sensitive topic of late. I am one of many whom feel robbed that our top end c-store ships will no longer be the top line ships as the Fleet Refit ships will have extra hull, shields and console slots with the c-store ships being a unique costume and console. I didn't play 1600-2000CP for a console and a costume, that is more a 500CP price. Massive buyer remorse here.
In reflection over the past 24 hours I have thought about this and truly think that the c-store ships should be bumbed up to be better than the fleet ships, remain at their current price and fleet ships should replace the current c-store ships in term of stats. I think it is only fair. I can understand the Development team trying to please people who dislike the concept of pay to play, but doing this to customers whom actually have paid for a particular top end ship (including lock-box ships) it seems rather cheap and make us feel ripped off. If I had known this was going to happened I would've not put the money into buying these ships. From a business sense the current idea is not very wise.
My alternative idea is that fleet retrofit ships should only be available to people whom have bought the said ships. So for example the Defiant Retrofit for the Fleet can only be used and acquired by those whom have bought the Defiant-R from the C-store. Though this doesn't solve the problem of ships like the Excelsior, B'rel Retrofit, Guramba etc. So I do prefer the first idea more.
I would appreciate a response from the development team, as one of thousand paying customers I think we do have a right to some loyalty in return.
In reflection over the past 24 hours I have thought about this and truly think that the c-store ships should be bumbed up to be better than the fleet ships, remain at their current price and fleet ships should replace the current c-store ships in term of stats. I think it is only fair. I can understand the Development team trying to please people who dislike the concept of pay to play, but doing this to customers whom actually have paid for a particular top end ship (including lock-box ships) it seems rather cheap and make us feel ripped off. If I had known this was going to happened I would've not put the money into buying these ships. From a business sense the current idea is not very wise.
My alternative idea is that fleet retrofit ships should only be available to people whom have bought the said ships. So for example the Defiant Retrofit for the Fleet can only be used and acquired by those whom have bought the Defiant-R from the C-store. Though this doesn't solve the problem of ships like the Excelsior, B'rel Retrofit, Guramba etc. So I do prefer the first idea more.
I would appreciate a response from the development team, as one of thousand paying customers I think we do have a right to some loyalty in return.
Support the Game by Supporting the KDF, equality and uniqueness for all factions!
Post edited by majesticmsfc on
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Comments
Some of the C-Store ships are P2W, so to balance (sorta), there's now Grind-to-Win. C-Store satisfies those who can't resist getting it now, while those who wish to get the new ones the hard way can, without spending a dime.
Some feel ripped off, that's to be expected. You can't please everyone, and Cryptic knows it.
Been playing STO since Open Beta, and have never regarded anything as worse than 'meh', if only due to personal standards.
I bought a Kar'Fi Battle Carrier for the console/weapon setup and the unique carrier pets NOT the console that is pretty weak IMO. Come season 6, anybody will be able to get a better version of the Kar'Fi than the one I bought in the c-store sans the weak console that doesn't really matter. 1600CP down the drain.
I also have the Guramba and the situation there is even worse, it won't even get a fleet version because it lacks a console which means that to stay competitive after season 6 I will have to switch to a fleet version of another ship. 2000CP down the drain.
I like your first idea about buffing the c-store ships but Cryptic will never go for that since it counteracts one of the big reasons for the whole fleet system, new better content that you have to grind for over a long time. The new better fleet ships is a big draw and if you can just buy something better you might not be as motivated to log in everyday and grind.
Your second idea is something I also suggested as a solution in another thread and as far as I can see it does solve the problem with the Gurmaba and other console less ships. Instead of a ship you get a "tech manual" that either converts your existing console less ship to the fleet version or you go to a vendor with it and get the fleet version in return but only if the c-store version already is unlocked on your account. Maybe the "tech manual" can be incorporated with the doff system and a crit give you something extra but I digress.
This way does have it's drawbacks since people who don't own the c-store version get nothing of value and for them such a project can feel like a waste of time but not everyone in a fleet want every ship anyway and you still get fleet credits when you contribute. Maybe the "tech manual" can be traded for something else like fleet credits if you don't own the ship.
I really hope that Cryptic take a long hard lock at this since I don't think they want to TRIBBLE their old c-store customers when it comes to this.
I like that idea a lot.
Well the problem is the c-store ships are not as good as the fleet versions. As a company who relies heavily on the c-store for the majority of their income from this game now with f2p it doesn't make a whole lot of sense especially when they are upsetting the people who have been supporting the game paying for these ships. This imo is a real bad move, a big loss of income will result, unless the c-store ships can either be equal to the fleet ships or better.
I do agree that they need to do something for the console less ships as they are a big investment by players. To be honest they need to do it for all c-store ships. The tech-manual you suggest is one alternative that could work, and isn't at the end of the day this entire season 6 and fleet yards idea to encourage people to invest more into the game, both time wise and money wise. After all at the end of the day Cryptic is a business and like any business needs to cover it's costs and turn a profit.
Yes I do think cryptic really hasn't taken much of a look at the impact this will make to the game and the business income either. Real money isn't something people like to throw away especially in this economy and time of uncertainty.
I don't like the idea of my paid stuff becomes less worth than non paid stuff....
If people who have purchased ships from the c-store have access to the fleet ships then that problem would cease as well.
Any devs prepared to respond? I'm betting betting not. I've invited them to respond to points in the past but they're never interested. Thanks, devs. Thanks for showing support to the people who pay your salaries. You always seem to forget that without us you'd have to find a new job. Very gracious of you.
However, I do agree that the cost of the c-store version for the sake of a console and skin is a bit much to ask after such a long grind. That much needs to be reconsidered by PWE/Cryptic.
PS: Just incase ya'll might think I'm a feeloading F2P kid... I spent real cash on the oddy bundle and was once a monthly sub. I don't feel hard done by with the introduction of the fleet versions of the ships knowing what it's gonna take to get 1 or 2 of them.
I just thought I'd point that out before I get flamed lol.
Not a cool way to treat paying customers.
If this happens what about those of us who have purchased the current C store ships? We have them already and therefor if this happens we already have the fleet ships. so we would then have to rebuy the upgraded versions? Are you saying that we should have to buy the same ships twice to get the full version?
Fleet leader Nova Elite
Fleet Leader House of Nova elite
@ren_larreck
My only concern is about the balance of some of those ships, specially the fleet escort retrofit. I'm a escort pilot so i will one of the "benefited" with this new ship, but with 5 tactical consoles the dmg will be totaly OP (4dhc+3turrets+5 MK XII purple tact consoles...)
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
If I had the time to grind for the periods of time it will take to get these ships, I'd be crying over my total lack of a real life.
I buy from the C-store for 3 reasons:
1. Support a game I enjoy
2. Support my chosen faction (I only spend C on KDF stuff)
3. I just want to try out the different ships, and have the cash, so why not?
Until the ships get really out of hand, skill is still the more important factor in ''Winning'', which unless you're PVPing (As I do), is a pretty nebulous term when it comes to 99% of this game.
I disagree. People who don't want to be in a fleet may be disadvantaged. People who are in relatively inactive fleets may be disadvantaged. These people are not pay to win, as you put it, and will be disadvantaged.
Any response, devs? (I highly doubt it...)
and ppl who don't want to spend money where in disadvantaged for a long time.
We had to grind for months for get what a guy with a credit car was able to get in 2minutes. Now u will have to grind, deal with it.
U want the benefits of the fleets, without be part of a fleet, sorry but is ilogical.
i can show u several p2w builds that can **** any top pvp player that is not using p2w stuff without any need of skills.
I'm pvp player, pvp is the only reason why i play this game (the game story is good, but i finished all in 3 weeks)
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Sure buddy.
As someone who says PVP is the only reason he plays this game, I am sure you will be thrilled to grind the same PVE content endlessly every day.
...and all those P2W builds must be the reason I always see the same guys in Hegh'tas and Fleet Escorts pwning in Ker'rat every day. Now if you're talking Arena, maybe. I never play that TRIBBLE.
You say that like P2W is a bad thing. Someone paid for (or ground out the dilithium for) their +1 endgame ship, sold in the premise that it WAS a +1 best of the best. Now it isn't, its just a very expensive skin and 3-minute console unusable on any other ship. They have a right to be annoyed, whether its 7 months out or tomorrow.
Seperately and back to the OP, maybe if they set it so you can only get a Fleet ship if you have the original, truly an upgrade to a ship a player already owns? If someone wants an upgraded Soverign, they better have their RA one in storage. If they want an upgraded Nebula, they have to hit the C-store anyways. That way C-store ships still stay special and better than their common counterparts.
Well..there is the problem, i'm talking about PvP and u are talking about Kerrat
PvP is arena.
Kerrat is just for pass time killing noobs while the pvp queque pop, there is no real challenge in kerrat for a good pvp player, even less for a premade team.
When u wanna have a REAL pvp experience, send me a PM, i can invite you to some good private matches.
Do u wanna have endgame ships without be part of a fleet? Ok, i wanna have endgame ships without spent real money.
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
not really, u gonna need the cpoints for some fleet ships
Vin Naftero@playhard88 - FED Sciencie
K'tan@playhard88 - KDF Tactical
Argento@playhard88 - RRF Tactical (FED)
Put on your big boy pants people. They're kind of busy building the game.
Eventually, better ships were going to come out than the ones you bought on the C-store - Get over it. It looks as though the fleet ones may cost C-points(zen). At the least, it costs DIL to upgrade the base to get these ships, and Dil is interchangeable with C-zen anyways.
If anything, the proper way to handle it would be to put some new ships on the C-store and some in the fleet bases, "different but equal". However, I'm hoping the LVL5 starbase ships are a one up on the regular C-store, because with a 7-month minimum to reach, and then probably a cost on top of it, I had better be working for something.
As for people concerned that they won't be making any money: people still buy inventory/bank expansions, doffs, keys, costumes, etc, PLUS they'll probably be buying just to trade for Dil to upgrade fleet bases.
And to the 3-4 whiny little ********* out there complaining about having to join a fleet: it's a co-op RPG: you're in the wrong game to be anti-social. They're going to go ahead and cater to the majority of us, thanks.
Better ships are not the issue, the fact that all our teir 5 ships are now going to become obsolete is the issue and the mostly free ships are going to be better. More so Cryptic thinking we'll be happy with our 1600-2000CP ship being a unique constume and console is insulting.
May I ask, how many teir 5 ships have you bought during your time in the game? If none how would you feel if you were in our shoes?
I really like that idea, in fact it would allow the Excelsior and other non-console ships to have a fleet version. It would also make everyone happy and solve the problem and be I think quite easy to implement for the Dev's.
You have a fair point, however does Toyota make you join a car club before letting you buy the next model? Also does the pricing structure of the new car operate on a different economic model?
I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but it is our patronage that creates the dev's jobs. Without paying customers they have to look for a new job. We are their customers. That means our thoughts and opinions must matter. For us to ask for answers to our concerns, concerns involving us spending money on their product, then yes, we have the right to expect our questions to be answered. Only a completely idiotic moron wouldn't expect the same. Do you expect the same?
As for whether we join fleets or not, is it written in the rules that it's mandatory to join a fleet? To my knowledge it's not. Therefore, making a universal part of the game (obtaining ships) dependent on an optional part of the game (joining a fleet) is unreasonable, nonsensical and counter-intuitive.
Seeing as the majority of this thread consists of users not happy with the new ships structure then I think we should have our concerns addressed by the people we pay.
I dropped 2k C-points on a Garamba, and now it's not even going to have a fleet option. Sure I'm disappointed, but I knew that it was eventually going to be replaced somewhere down the line. You'd have to be a fool to think otherwise.
It's an inevitability that any ship you buy in the C-store will eventually become 2nd rate. That's just the nature of MMOs. Guess what, the Fleet ships will eventually be 2nd rate as well. You better learn to deal with it.
But the Fleet ships your worry about can only be gotten from a fleetstar base.
That way you can use your c-store bought ship and working with your fleetmates if any. To help them build a Fleetbase by doniataing fleet marks, DOFF, D-crystals,ECT and that way earning fleet credits to buy an updated Fleet version starship.
So you see you can get your C-store credits worth out of that starship. By helping build a fleetbase.
Fleet Starship version require a lot of work to earn then need fleet credits to buy them.
Lastly, You will always have your favorite starship to go tooling around in and it could be the one you brought through the c-store.
I have several favorite starships and all were brought through the c-store and when I pre-order STO
They are :
The NX-01
The Defiant
The Promethus
The ARITAGE
I have used my ARITAGE in fleet missions in tribble and I have almost 20,000 fleet credit. Which is almost enough the buy the new Fleet version of the Defiant.
I'm glad I'm not going to have to dish out another 2,000 C-store credit for it and I had fun doing the fleet missions and working with the Cryptic Tribbles in building their Fleetbase and earning the fleet marks & credits as well
As for the fleets themselves, it's all well and good telling people to be more social, but the things are mechanically an awful mess at the moment (a friend and I play-tested them quite a lot on Tribble). It's going to cause a lot of drama on par with the STF drop rates and just generally cripple STO.
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