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Just WHERE is the Gamma Orionis sector?
cusashorn
Member Posts: 461
This has been bugging me since the game first launched. On the sector map, all the territories are differently colored to suggest which major galactic faction owns that territory. Blue for Federation, Red for Klingon, Green for Romulan, Brown for Cardassians.
And yet there's the Gamma Orionis block, which is controlled by the Borg.
Now, it has always been my assumption that this sector was in the Delta Quadrant, right in the middle of Borg Space. The reason being that you need to use a transwarp gate just to get there. This would make sense, because you can easily travel everywhere else in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants without any advanced means of transportation with your ship.
Upon closer examination, it does indeed look like that sector is part of the Alpha Quadrant though, which begs me to ask why we have to travel there by a TW gate. I mean, we could just as easily access it from Eta Eridani, yet we need a TW gate to travel there. If we can't even fly there on our own accord, then why aren't TW Gates being used to connect everywhere else in the two quadrants? Why not set one up in Alpha Centauri and Zeta Andromeda for ease of travel? Both Starfleet and the KDF have the technology to invent their own gate network that the Borg couldn't tap into... I mean, that's what's happening with the two that exist now.
(BTW: On the subject of flying from Eta Eridani: No matter how you try to justify it, if Deferi space really is where it is, then you have to fly through 3 separate blocks to reach there from Eta. It's on the far side of Federation territory, natch.)
But then there is one glaringly obvious issue with the Delta Quadrant theory. WHY IS THE INFAMOUS MUTARA NEBULA IN BORG-CONTROLLED SPACE!? The very nebula where Kirk fought against Khan in Star Trek 2.
I could understand if it was a Mutara-class nebula, which have been pointed out on a few occasions in the series, but not THE Mutara Nebula.
I can understand that a lot has changed in the last 30 years since the end of Voyager. I can see the Borg making an aggressive advance just to make a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant, and it seems that is just what they did.
And then there's the other obvious issue: How is it that the Undine have portals leading to Fluidic Space over here in the Alpha Quadrant? Unless Fluidic Space is exceptionally smaller than our space, and distance is measured in a hyperbolic comparison (One mile over there equals one lightyear here or something), then it would still take them far longer than 30 years just to make it to the Alpha Quadrant. This is what also leads me to believe that Gamma Orionis is in the Delta Quadrant: Because the Pelia Sector is connected not too far from the Borg's home turf.
TL;DR: Is the Gamma Orionis block in the Alpha or Delta Quadrant?
And yet there's the Gamma Orionis block, which is controlled by the Borg.
Now, it has always been my assumption that this sector was in the Delta Quadrant, right in the middle of Borg Space. The reason being that you need to use a transwarp gate just to get there. This would make sense, because you can easily travel everywhere else in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants without any advanced means of transportation with your ship.
Upon closer examination, it does indeed look like that sector is part of the Alpha Quadrant though, which begs me to ask why we have to travel there by a TW gate. I mean, we could just as easily access it from Eta Eridani, yet we need a TW gate to travel there. If we can't even fly there on our own accord, then why aren't TW Gates being used to connect everywhere else in the two quadrants? Why not set one up in Alpha Centauri and Zeta Andromeda for ease of travel? Both Starfleet and the KDF have the technology to invent their own gate network that the Borg couldn't tap into... I mean, that's what's happening with the two that exist now.
(BTW: On the subject of flying from Eta Eridani: No matter how you try to justify it, if Deferi space really is where it is, then you have to fly through 3 separate blocks to reach there from Eta. It's on the far side of Federation territory, natch.)
But then there is one glaringly obvious issue with the Delta Quadrant theory. WHY IS THE INFAMOUS MUTARA NEBULA IN BORG-CONTROLLED SPACE!? The very nebula where Kirk fought against Khan in Star Trek 2.
I could understand if it was a Mutara-class nebula, which have been pointed out on a few occasions in the series, but not THE Mutara Nebula.
I can understand that a lot has changed in the last 30 years since the end of Voyager. I can see the Borg making an aggressive advance just to make a foothold in the Alpha Quadrant, and it seems that is just what they did.
And then there's the other obvious issue: How is it that the Undine have portals leading to Fluidic Space over here in the Alpha Quadrant? Unless Fluidic Space is exceptionally smaller than our space, and distance is measured in a hyperbolic comparison (One mile over there equals one lightyear here or something), then it would still take them far longer than 30 years just to make it to the Alpha Quadrant. This is what also leads me to believe that Gamma Orionis is in the Delta Quadrant: Because the Pelia Sector is connected not too far from the Borg's home turf.
TL;DR: Is the Gamma Orionis block in the Alpha or Delta Quadrant?
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Post edited by cusashorn on
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I'd argue the Mutara nebula should not be there either, not because of the location (because it is the right location), but because in ST:II, didn't it get obliterated by the Genesis effect when the Reliant exploded?
It would be nice if the sector block got linked to the game map instead of having to use transwarp conduits in the future though, just like we are misssing sectors between Sirius sector block and Cardassian space.
One of the few scans I could find: here
So the Mutara Nebula is deep within the Beta Quadrant. It's not even really connected to the space that is currently visitable in-game. It's location on the game map is also confusing.
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Why do they need to get there fast? Because it's a war front. The Borg travelled there from the Delta Quadrant and are using it as a beachhead, their launch point for the invasion of the Alpha/Beta quadrants. So that's why they are there and have assimilated part of it.
The Mutara Nebula is there because that's where Star Trek 2 was set. Part of the nebula gets turned into the Genesis planet (which also exploded by the end of Star Trek 3 because it was unstable). Why is the nebula still there now? Because a nebula is huge; several light years across. No way could the whole thing have been consumed by Genesis.
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@OP: There's actually federation transwarp hubs everywhere, thats probably what we use when we switch sectors as the current sectors shown simply don't represent enough volume for the entire federation. Let along them plus romulans, plus klingons, plus everybody else. It's actually outlined in one of the federations romulan arc missions. It just isn't shouted about much.
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perhaps there are areas of space federation/kdf ships cannot go thru (aggressors etc.) so they must use tw
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Also in response to OP, it can certainly be THE Mutara Nebula, or more accuratly the remnants of the nebula. Nebulae can be huge meaning multiple light years across. Nebulae and dust clouds can be stellar nurseries to dozens or up to hundreds of proto star systems. A Genersis device consuming enough matter for a star and a few planets would be nothing to a typical star nursery nebula.
It's more the point that the famous Mutara Nebula just now happens to be in Borg-controlled space that gets me. Like I said, there have been Mutara-class nebulae pointed out in various episodes (Voyager: "One" and "Counterpoint" for example,) and I could find that easier to believe. It's just hard to wrap my head around the idea that something so famous among Star Trek fans like this would be taken over like that.
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In STO, it's suggested that the Transwarp Conduits are becoming more common place for shortened travel within established territories closer to home. The Gamma Orionis conduit is the only permanent one on the maps. I wonder if its really not the Borg presence in Beta Quadrant as much as the Transwarp Conduit that is confusing folks? A conduit doesn't necessarily have to exist to only shorten travel between galaxy quadrants (Alpha to Delta, for example).
I have no problem with the Nebula being taken over by the Borg. After all there is an invasion going on and the location is far off from the Federation core. (Nevermind that there are Borg sitting in Kerrat).
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Little value to the Federation? Are you forgetting about the MIDAS Array? And there is a good possibility the Regula Station is still being used in researching the Genesis Cave. (Even if the Genesis Project had long been abandoned.)
I ignore Ker'rat, Otha, and N'vak since there never been any storylines for them. But I doubt the Borg would have any interest in the Mutara Nebula.
Vega Colony isn't in Gamma Orionis, Vega is located 25 Light Years Northwest of Earth, in the Alpha Quadrant. Unless "Vega Colony" isn't in the Vega System.
while i think the designers meant it to be the nebula from wrath of khan it could just be a generic nebula of the same type.
This is A Mutara Nebula because THE Mutara Nebula is transformed into the Planet Genesis at the end of ST2.
Gamma Orionis is in the Delta Quadrant.
I concur. I finally found it in my copy of the Star Trek Maps book. Assuming Vega Colony is on Vega IX as other sources suggest, it would be in a sector west of Teneebia Sector (Memory Alpha).
So are their any STF mission details which elaborate on why the Borg simply didn't continue to gravitate nearer Vega instead of, say, the much further away Mutara Nebula and Cestus region?
Gamma Orionis (Bellatrix) is in the Beta Quadrant, generally "south" of Klingon Space, next to the Gorn Hegemony. As mentioned in this thread already, the STO team used the Star Charts book for the overall sector layout for the game: Star Charts 1 & Star Charts 2.
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None whatsoever, even with the original STFs. The Borg suddenly were there at Vega.
Heck, I'm still figuring out how the Borg even managed to construct a base there in the heart of Federation Territory, years before their advancement into Gamma Orionis.
I seriously doubt that the Mutara Nebula condensed light years worth of material into a new star and planet within a few minutes. At best only a portion of the nebula was turned into the Genesis system.
And Gamma Orionis, definitely in the Beta Quadrant, "south" of Earth.
It's a class of Nebula, but care to point out another Mutara-class Nebula in or near Federation space that the MIDAS array could be located?
I just finished watching Unimatrix Zero from Voyager. In it, Seven's friend mentions that he's on a borg sphere on the border of fluidic space, on the other side of the galaxy. At the end of the episode, Seven confirms that he's on the edge of the Beta quadrant.
Well, that would explain why the Undine can be found off of Gamma Orionis, and that the Borg were over there well a lot longer than the game leads us to believe.
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Cryptic's position is that the nebula is either back or was never fully consumed.
Gamma Orionis is very clearly in the Beta Quadrant.
The Borg can transport anywhere in the galaxy. They are flanking us from the opposite direction of the Delta Quadrant.
A larger reason is that Children of Khan was supposed to take place in the nebula where Khan was defeated and Cryptic chose to have the Borg turn up in that region of space (because the Borg can turn up anywhere; they use portals) to center endgame around the region of space where the nebula from Wrath of Khan was located.
Nice catch about the Unimatrix Zero reference with Beta 'bordering' Fluidic Space, hadn't thought of that.
Makes sense to me that the Borg would be able to grab a foothold there as it is a distant area of Federation space and the Fed-Klink war would make reaching it initially to drive them back very difficult. It's proximity to Cestus and Gorn space might explain how the Borg assimilated those mega Gorns for use on Defera,