threat control is a skill that Draws Fire onto you
off of others and directly onto you
its a "shoot me " sign
If you have threat control and others do not you will be the one getting shot at (this applies BOTH on the ground and in space
Do NOT take this skill unless you fully understand this
if someone advises you to take it they want you to TANK (ie be the redshirt)
Do not get scammed , conned , tricked or trolled into this if you do not want to be
Yes people will tell you im a Troll , a goblin , a noob
thing is I CAN read
And I Did read the description which is why NONE of my non tactical characters has threat control
its a skill for people too daft to duck
If you don't believe me read the skill descriptions on the Game itself AND the official wiki
do not listen to the crys of "he knows nothing " and "he is an ogre"
LOOK for yourself
If you WANT to tank (and may the gods have mercy on you and your crew) then Tank
but its Your choice not someone elses
Honestly, I don't see any misinformation in the OP.
I don't agree with sollvax's choices or views on only Tacs being tanks, but he isn't forcing those choices on anyone else, merely stating his preferences.
Personally, I can "Tank" on a Sci, a Tac, or an Eng, but only my Engineer is skilled into Threat Control (regardless of whether he's flying an Odyssey or an Escort). The main thing about tanking, from an efficency point of view, is the extra Armor Consoles and shield power setting bonuses and higher tier versions of EPTS that are available to Cruisers.
Oh, and I hate having more than two Ensign Tactical slots too. Once I'm sufficiently covered with Tactical Team, about the only thing I've ever found to throw in there that's worth a damn is Torpedo Spread I...
And Now this thread has picked up a TROLL of its own
I said that when I play a Tac I take the hits because its my job I can't help it if "ruined" has a yellow streak a parsec wide
My Tacs close engage because they are tactical
I notice that if ANYONE speaks against the "holy trinity " of Escort master , cruiser monkey and science "healer slave"
gets disrespected by this mauler
Anyone who WANTS to tank should be able to do so
but anyone who doesn't want to should never have to
and change my name one more time laddy and I shall be forced to start behaving like one of you (and mess your name about and disrespect your ancestors)
don't wet your pants SOILvax.
once again, a bit hypocritical there to say "anyone who doesn't want to should never have to" but not amend the previous statement that "tacs should be the ones tanking"
you also have a horrible definition of tanking if you think anyone that takes the incoming fire of the enemy is just going to roll over and die.
"close engaging" is not tanking. its closing in and attacking. once again, tanking is getting the attention of the enemy and retaining it there, allowing for other ships to fire freely on said enemy without fear of attracting the unwanted attention or sustaining any damage at all.
and you still haven't explained how a scenario of 1 guy being capable of taking the mightiest of blows from enemies like elite tactical cubes without dying, allowing his 4 other teammates to just use all of their offensive capabilities against said cube without having to break away to heal or replenish shields is worse than 2 escorts dead and on respawn cooldown while the three surviving ships are taking turns shooting and being shot at by an elite tactical cube.
edit : @maelwy5 - an ommission of fact is still misinformation. SOILHISPANTSvax over here forgot to make mention that you get a defensive bonus along with the threat generation increase.
go and pray to your grandfathers for forgiveness for disrespecting your ancestors
once again, a bit hypocritical there to say "anyone who doesn't want to should never have to" but not amend the previous statement that "tacs should be the ones tanking"
They are the men trained and equipped for the role
Thus if anyone should be tanking it should be the BEST trained for combat
tactical officers.
Thus when I "Tank" which is a wrong word Its with a tactical officer
you also have a horrible definition of tanking if you think anyone that takes the incoming fire of the enemy is just going to roll over and die.
anyone who stands the skevstorm while others COWER can hold only as long as they have shield and hull repairs available
as no escort will heal a cruiser and as you have all but WIPED out science officers Tanks are meat shields
"close engaging" is not tanking. its closing in and attacking. once again, tanking is getting the attention of the enemy and retaining it there, allowing for other ships to fire freely on said enemy without fear of attracting the unwanted attention or sustaining any damage at all.
Correct close engaging WORKS unless some escort pilot zeroes you (blows up ships directly under your hull)
tanking doesn't work so well
and you still haven't explained how a scenario of 1 guy being capable of taking the
mightiest of blows from enemies like elite tactical cubes without dying, allowing his 4 other teammates to just use all of their offensive capabilities against said cube without having to break away to heal or replenish shields is worse than 2 escorts dead and on respawn cooldown while the three surviving ships are taking turns shooting and being shot at by an elite tactical cube.
so the REDUNDANT escorts get the reward and the cruiser captain gets to bleed for you ??
it he is tanking the victory is his ALONE and you are doing nothing
(incidentally the right cruiser (the X) can solo that cube even if you log out)
My R can't solo the cube on elite (you need two R class cruisers to take it on without getting pulped)
But THREE Galaxy R's can take it apart without anyone having to bleed
Thus if anyone should be tanking it should be the BEST trained for combat
except in this game the best trained for combat survival is an engineer in space and a science officer in ground. so the tac any which way you slice it is out of the picture.
anyone who stands the skevstorm while others COWER can hold only as long as they have shield and hull repairs available
as no escort will heal a cruiser and as you have all but WIPED out science officers Tanks are meat shields
the escort doesn't need to heal the cruiser if the cruiser can heal himself. and just how would the science officers be wiped out if they arent even taking damage? are you even thinking before you respond?
Correct close engaging WORKS unless some escort pilot zeroes you (blows up ships directly under your hull)
tanking doesn't work so well
except theres a plethora of abilities that don't even share cooldowns, all of which either mitigate or minimize things like kinetic damage (from ships blowing up under your hull)
so the REDUNDANT escorts get the reward and the cruiser captain gets to bleed for you ??
it he is tanking the victory is his ALONE and you are doing nothing
(incidentally the right cruiser (the X) can solo that cube even if you log out)
My R can't solo the cube on elite (you need two R class cruisers to take it on without getting pulped)
But THREE Galaxy R's can take it apart without anyone having to bleed
how is he getting victory alone? stfs are a team based thing. and theres no special pool that gives you a reward based on how much damage you do. its all randomized. the escort has as much of a chance to get a certain type of loot as a reward as the cruiser tanking. and if he clears the mission, guess what? you clear the mission as well. the game does not segragate players that do the STF. theres no "this guy in your team has accomplished the mission but you instead have failed and will have to queue up again" prompt. its always either the team succeeded in the mission or failed. please do elaborate on how the escort has "the victory alone"
and you cant solo the cube on elite? thats just disgraceful. i can solo the elite tactical cube in the last phase of infected space elite (which has more hitpoints than the one in KA elite) in my nebula science vessel. i have less engineering capability and less weaponry than you do and i can do what you can't? that it will take three of you to do what i can do by myself? thats pretty sad.
edit : @maelwy5 - an ommission of fact is still misinformation. SOILHISPANTSvax over here forgot to make mention that you get a defensive bonus along with the threat generation increase.
[PHP]except in this game the best trained for combat survival is an engineer in space and a science officer in ground. so the tac any which way you slice it is out of the picture.[/PHP]
Except of course thats incorrect
the escort doesn't need to heal the cruiser if the cruiser can heal himself. and just how would the science officers be wiped out if they arent even taking damage? are you even thinking before you respond?
your kind of thinking has weakened and nearly ERASED the science ships from teams
they can't "dps" and they can't"heal" they are just to you wasted spaces
except theres a plethora of abilities that don't even share cooldowns, all of which either mitigate or minimize things like kinetic damage (from ships blowing up under your hull)
which only works if you KNOW some idiot is going to zero you
how is he getting victory alone?
#
you are merely acting as a deployable turret at most
stfs are a team based thing. and theres no special pool that gives you a reward based on how much damage you do. its all randomized
Rewards
Ah how very starfleet (not)
greed and glory hounding
how very very NOT starfleet
.
the escort has as much of a chance to get a certain type of loot as a reward as the cruiser tanking. and if he clears the mission, guess what?
The escort should get NOTHING if the cruiser does all the work
you clear the mission as well. the game does not segragate players that do the STF. theres no "this guy in your team has accomplished the mission but you instead have failed and will have to queue up again" prompt. its always either the team succeeded in the mission or failed. please do elaborate on how the escort has "the victory alone"
there is a difference between "rewards" and "honour"
the honour of the Victory belongs to those who fought with honour
and letting someone else bleed for you is not so honourable is it
and you cant solo the cube on elite? thats just disgraceful. i can solo the elite tactical cube in the last phase of infected space elite (which has more hitpoints than the one in KA elite) in my nebula science vessel.
A CRUISER
and no you can't
I have had a personal message from someone who says he has seen you in action and says (and I quote) "A Hide and seek merchant"
i have less engineering capability and less weaponry than you do and i can do what you can't? that it will take three of you to do what i can do by myself? thats pretty sad.
if it were even remotely true which frankly its not
you call people names of a scatalogical nature because you are not capable of being adult about it when people disagree
you shame your ancestors
and you cant solo the cube on elite? thats just disgraceful. i can solo the elite tactical cube in the last phase of infected space elite (which has more hitpoints than the one in KA elite) in my nebula science vessel. i have less engineering capability and less weaponry than you do and i can do what you can't? that it will take three of you to do what i can do by myself? thats pretty sad.
Well I wouldn't call it disgraceful...
I can solo the Tac Elite Cube on any of my Captains: Cruiser, Science Vessel, Escort or Carrier. And although I don't fly one, I'm pretty sure even a BoP could do it with the right setup.
In my opinion:
The thing Escorts bring most to the table in STFs is Attack Pattern Beta III. It's hard to beat what amounts to a buff that doubles the damage output of your entire team. Cruisers, whilst perfectly capable of soloing any single enemy on an Elite STF, simply don't have anything to compare to that... which is why Cruisers tend to function better as damage sponges. And in order to be able to pull aggro off a good escort, they'll need to invest in Threat Control because the DPS of an Escort can always beat the raw dps of a Cruiser (the ability to use DHCs is the main culprit here, but even if you're flying a KDF Cruiser or the Fed Dreadnaught, the extra higher tier Tac slots on an Escort will mean better DPS).
Science Vessels are trickier to categorise. a Good Science Vessel can output nearly as much raw DPS as a Cruiser, and use its Science BOFF powers to make up the difference in additional DPS and/or hold enemy ships in place for extra Critical Hit effectiveness or to keep them away from STF mission objectives.
However, I'd hold that the type of Captain - Tactical/Science/Engineering - has much LESS impact on space combat than what ship type you're flying. Engineers are slightly Tankier with 'Rotate Shield Frequency', Tacs have slightly better DPS with 'Attack Pattern Alpha' and 'Fire on My Mark'... Scis are somewhere in between. Ground combat is another story, as each role can only slot certain kits.
Is there really any need for that, you can get your point across with out name calling, infact it just makes you look immature.
Ultimately it's up to the individual player as to what skills they pick, I'm a tac captain piloting a cruiser . . and i haven't put one point in the threat skill, and later i realised i didn't really have to . . since i've taken aggro of others in my team due to DPS . . i heal those who need it when ever those skills recharge, to try an pervent people from popping . . tanking or not, it's down to team work and helping others . . rather than it's his job to do that and their job to do this. This is of course how i like to play, and only MY opinion.
After reading through this thread assuming the point of view of a compleatly new player doing research, i would find all this conflicting information most confusing . . whos right, who's wrong ?? I would have no idea, leading me to do my own research.
So i would have to conclude, the only 2 useful things a new player could get from this thread when you cut out all the TRIBBLE-for-tat and squabbling is.
1) Read the skills carefully before committing points, and think if tanking suits your playing method = Sollvax
2) Engineering captains make the best tanks and are perhaps best suited for the threat skill. = Other posters
threat control is a skill that Draws Fire onto you
off of others and directly onto you
its a "shoot me " sign
If you have threat control and others do not you will be the one getting shot at (this applies BOTH on the ground and in space
Do NOT take this skill unless you fully understand this
if someone advises you to take it they want you to TANK (ie be the redshirt)
Do not get scammed , conned , tricked or trolled into this if you do not want to be
Yes people will tell you im a Troll , a goblin , a noob
thing is I CAN read
And I Did read the description which is why NONE of my non tactical characters has threat control
its a skill for people too daft to duck
If you don't believe me read the skill descriptions on the Game itself AND the official wiki
do not listen to the crys of "he knows nothing " and "he is an ogre"
LOOK for yourself
If you WANT to tank (and may the gods have mercy on you and your crew) then Tank
but its Your choice not someone elses
Just out of curosuty did you skill into it and cant reskill out of it becauae you have no respec tokens? I am trying to figure out what your problem with it is.
NERF CANNONS - THEY NEED A 50% NERF
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
your kind of thinking has weakened and nearly ERASED the science ships from teams
they can't "dps" and they can't"heal" they are just to you wasted spaces
it has? funny then that i constantly mention that i am a science officer and that i fly a nebula science vessel.
which only works if you KNOW some idiot is going to zero you
situational awareness seems to be something of a necessity for people that know how to tank or do well in their ship. it appears you do not have this ability.
Rewards
Ah how very starfleet (not)
greed and glory hounding
how very very NOT starfleet
.
thats what is given at the end of stfs though. but hey, preacher man, if you say that its not the very starfleet thing to do, surely you would have no qualms jetisonning all these nasty "not starfleet" rewards that the game gives you.
The escort should get NOTHING if the cruiser does all the work
the cruiser isn't doing all the work. cruiser absorbs the damage from the enemy, escort pours the damage on the enemy. whats hard to understand about that? its a synergistic teamwork. if compared to say, a medieval knight, the cruiser is the shield and the escort is the sword/mace/flail. you do not see knights that block attacks with the mace and attack with the shield at the same time, do you?
there is a difference between "rewards" and "honour"
the honour of the Victory belongs to those who fought with honour
and letting someone else bleed for you is not so honourable is it
it would be dishonorable if you do not return the favor he does you by raining down hell on the attacker while the guy takes the blows for you. "letting someone else bleed for you" is honorable if you are actually going to be there to obliterate said enemy that is making the guy "bleed" for you.
I have had a personal message from someone who says he has seen you in action and says (and I quote) "A Hide and seek merchant"
nebula science vessel. and a pm from someone that has seen me in action? pray tell, do say what he said the name of my science officer was. i can tell you flat out that it is not ryuuenjin. oh and by the way, if you hadn't noticed, i'm calling you out on your bs. anyone that has "seen me in action" has done so because they are friends of mine that live just down the street from me in real life. we all love trek and joined in when we heard about a star trek mmo being made about 2 years ago. our fleet is small but we all know each other in real life and that makes it better for me than any big fleet where people don't really get the chance to know each other personally. and at this point in time all said friends of mine are fast asleep as i'm the nightowl of the bunch and its currently 5:26 am as of the time i am typing this.
if it were even remotely true which frankly its not
you call people names of a scatalogical nature because you are not capable of being adult about it when people disagree
you shame your ancestors
you shame your ancestors and their ancestors before them with your inane ramblings of a syphillitic mind.
edit : the nebula science vessel DOES have less weapons and engineering slots than a galaxy retrofit, just fyi.
gal r : 8 weapon slots (4 fore 4 aft), boff slots - commander engineer, lt. commander engineer, ensign engineer (total of 8 engineering powers)
nebula science vessel : 6 weapon slots (3 fore 3 aft) boff slots - lt. commander engineering, potential engineering use in lt. universal slot (total of 5 engineering powers)
At least I admit I can't solo a tactical cube on elite
and don't claim I can when I can't
(i define soloing as beating it without Respawning)
Same.
The trick is to negate the Heavy Torpedo Shots.
You can do this via four ways:
(1) By always keeping up a sliver of shields, combined with stacked Kinetic damage resistance (and ideally also a Resilient Shield to cut the bleedthrough component in half)
(2) By Shooting them down before they hit you. This is tricky to accomplish manually because some torpedos are invisible due to Graphic effect bugs, but using AoE damage powers such as Cannon Scatter Volley, or using Deployable Damage Patches such as Gravity Well, Tyken's Rift or Eject Warp Plasma will blow them up fairly reliably.
(3) By preventing the cube from firing at you. The easiest method of this is to sit out of the torpedo arcs - directly above or directly below the cube.
(4) By draining all the cube's weapon power. You need to drain ALL power for this to work since torpedo damage isn't reduced by lowering Weapons energy, you actually need to take the entire system offline completely. Aceton Assimilator, Plasmonic Leech and Power Siphon Drones are your best bet for this, it's pretty easy to build a KDF ship to do this but it's hard to get it to work Fedside.
I used to abuse method (3), as it's the most reliable... but after a large amount of practice I currently use a combination of methods (1) and (2) for Escorts and Sci Vessels, and method (1) for Cruisers.
[Note though, that whilst I'm technically able to solo the cubes doesn't mean I do it regularly. I'll happilly tank the cube and soak up the damage from it for my teammates, but not with the intention of soloing it. It's significantly more efficient in actual gameplay to just keep all your weapons pointed at the cube at point blank range, and if the Heavy Torpedo Hits you and method (1) fails, to respawn. The splash damage from a Heavy Torpedo hit on YOU at point blank range will damage the cube severely as well, leading to faster STF completion...]
(1) By always keeping up a sliver of shields, combined with stacked Kinetic damage resistance (and ideally also a Resilient Shield to cut the bleedthrough component in half)
(2) By Shooting them down before they hit you. This is tricky to accomplish manually because some torpedos are invisible due to Graphic effect bugs, but using AoE damage powers such as Cannon Scatter Volley, or using Deployable Damage Patches such as Gravity Well, Tyken's Rift or Eject Warp Plasma will blow them up fairly reliably.
(3) By preventing the cube from firing at you. The easiest method of this is to sit out of the torpedo arcs - directly above or directly below the cube.
(4) By draining all the cube's weapon power. You need to drain ALL power for this to work since torpedo damage isn't reduced by lowering Weapons energy, you actually need to take the entire system offline completely. Aceton Assimilator, Plasmonic Leech and Power Siphon Drones are your best bet for this, it's pretty easy to build a KDF ship to do this but it's hard to get it to work Fedside.
I used to abuse method (3), as it's the most reliable... but after a large amount of practice I currently use a combination of methods (1) and (2) for Escorts and Sci Vessels, and method (1) for Cruisers.
[Note though, that whilst I'm technically able to solo the cubes doesn't mean I do it regularly. I'll happilly tank the cube and soak up the damage from it for my teammates, but not with the intention of soloing it. It's significantly more efficient in actual gameplay to just keep all your weapons pointed at the cube at point blank range, and if the Heavy Torpedo Hits you and method (1) fails, to respawn. The splash damage from a Heavy Torpedo hit on YOU at point blank range will damage the cube severely as well, leading to faster STF completion...]
i only use two tricks to negate the heavy plasma torpedos. (i guess technically three)
1) brace for impact. no seriously, the most damage a plasma torpedo from the infected elite tac has done to my nebula with bracing on doesn't even get me anywhere past 70% hull, thats with being held in a tractor beam (thereby removing any movement defense bonuses)
2) use tractor beam repulsor on the plasma torpedo. tac cubes are hefty enough to not get repelled by repulsors and plasma torpedoes immediately die from being repelled (no missing, no worries about invisible torps if you watch their icon and see that the high yield buff vanished), move a little outside of the torpedoes arc just a little so that you can have repulsors at the ready again if the cube launches another torp(this step i guess counts as #3).
you just accused me of being a troll while being 100% wrong on what i said
GROUND missions the tac is the redshirt
oh and escorts SUCK as a tactical vessel
Tactical From the root word TACTICS
and frankly being a static gun point while someone else takes the hits is not a tactic its being a self mobile TURRET
Actually, convincing your enemies to attack the strongest point in your defenses is a very sound tactical strategy, after all, if they attack the weakest point, they get through faster. and escorts make bad tactical ships? really? the ships with the most tactical BO slots? and if you think a tactical officer's job is to derive tactics, your wrong, look at Worf, he was the tactical officer on the enterprise, did he tell them how to engage any of the enemies they fought? no he fired the weapons when his commanding officer told him to.
it is though my opinion, that Engineering officers make the best tanks for space, with a cruiser, due to the ship repair skills they have access to.
and Science officers make the best tanks on ground combat due to the self heals they have access to.
So i would have to conclude, the only 2 useful things a new player could get from this thread when you cut out all the TRIBBLE-for-tat and squabbling is.
1) Read the skills carefully before committing points, and think if tanking suits your playing method = Sollvax
2) Engineering captains make the best tanks and are perhaps best suited for the threat skill. = Other posters
Well, not quite.
Ship type is secondary to Captain role for potential DPS and survivability. A Tactical Officer in a Star Cruiser is going to be more difficult to kill than an Engineering Captain in an Advanced Escort; but the Engineer will do more damage.
Engineering Captains bring Rotate Shield Frequency and Miracle Worker to the table. Technically that makes them potentially the most survivable captains, but not the best tanks. You can't Tank if you're not the one being shot at. Which is where achievable raw DPS, combined with the "Threat Control" skill comes in.
That said, Traits can add a lot of effectiveness as well.
Most particularly the "Accurate" and "Elusive" traits.
And then there are the multitude of BOFF power choices...
my survival rate on elite is not 100% (I die an average of twice per ground mission on my Tactical Klingon)
But one of our regular gang plays a science with medical specialties
and I get revived asap when I go down
But my regular team (4 out of 5 of us queue together regularly) tend not to die at all
Because any time someone needs to go down its me
im packing a quite large supply of Large hypos
I have medic doff on standby
I have Security escorts to help with the job
And i have good armour decent weapons and I keep the borg occupied (I confess to having Real trouble with those Damned Turrets but I get the job done)
In space ops the same klingon and his carrier Take most of the damage because as a Tac thats MY job
But my Cruiser flying Engineers and science officers are NOT tanks and are not speced for it
The science ships include counter measures rig (designed to debuff the hell out of people)
A fast recon set up (designed to hit fast and get the hell out of there) this one drops turrets , spreads plasma and lays mines behind the enemy
My Engineer ships(including my favorite Galaxy R ) are speced for missions (ie solo PVE) and to Repair OTHER ships as well as myself
and I am more effective repairing them than dying in a blaze plasma for the benefit of a so called "perfect team"
who want to sit there and blast from a static point while I do all the bleeding
Klingon side I specialise in science ships ,and flight deck cruisers
Again NOT tanks
Yeah I can see a flight deck CRUISER in the hands of a TACTICAL officer not being a very good tank, but since I'm an ENGINEERING officer, using a flight deck CRUISER, and I can solo tactical cubes and/or Donatra on elite, yeah I'm pretty sure flight deck CRUISERs make an ok tanking ship. meanwhile, when i'm tanking in space, i don't need the team to heal me up, I can do it myself, since I am an Engineering officer with the appropriate engineering BOff skills at my finger tips. this leaves the 4 others in my team to go all out on the big bad monster while it slaps at me in vain and I laugh off its damage. if I was playing as a tactical officer, I do not believe I would have the survivability, after all, the game is not designed that way. oh and I also find the Stodi to be a joke, and I can hold my own in Terradome space also. all thanks to being an Engineering captain, using a cruiser with the appropriate BOffs and having Threat control.
Ship type is secondary to Captain role for potential DPS and survivability. A Tactical Officer in a Star Cruiser is going to be more difficult to kill than an Engineering Captain in an Advanced Escort; but the Engineer will do more damage.
Engineering Captains bring Rotate Shield Frequency and Miracle Worker to the table. Technically that makes them potentially the most survivable captains, but not the best tanks. You can't Tank if you're not the one being shot at. Which is where achievable raw DPS, combined with the "Threat Control" skill comes in.
That said, Traits can add a lot of effectiveness as well.
Most particularly the "Accurate" and "Elusive" traits.
And then there are the multitude of BOFF power choices...
It's all in how you build!
Well there you go, i've learnt something new just there . . and i agree, it is all about your build and the boff powers you choose . . being a tac captain, i've maxed the accurate, weapon power & Elusive skills . . leaving "Threat control" free, although i sill can draw aggro just by being a pain in the butt to the NPC's due to the bonus damage i can do . . lol. :biggrin:
oh it is, is it? please do enlighten me and list the number of damage mitigation abilities that tactical captains have.
Brace for impact
many optional boff powers
Some consoles and options
moving out of the way
it has? funny then that i constantly mention that i am a science officer and that i fly a nebula science vessel.
You fly a cruiser yes
but you TANK which means you are not filling the science role
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
which only works if you KNOW some idiot is going to zero you
situational awareness seems to be something of a necessity for people that know how to tank or do well in their ship. it appears you do not have this ability.
An "alpha strike" by an escort can take a target vessel from 25% to detonation in a matter of SECONDS
the ship that was making a timed run past it (and would have killed it before moving out of range is destroyed by the incompetence of the Escort )
Especially if the poor cruiser does not have an evasive or a brace ready because two other escorts already pulled this in the last couple of minutes
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
#
you are merely acting as a deployable turret at most
that does not explain how the escort "gets victory alone"
you really need to read
the escort contributes nothing
the victory belongs only to the ship that took a beating for the poor little escort
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
Rewards
Ah how very starfleet (not)
greed and glory hounding
how very very NOT starfleet
.
thats what is given at the end of stfs though. but hey, preacher man, if you say that its not the very starfleet thing to do, surely you would have no qualms jetisonning all these nasty "not starfleet" rewards that the game gives you.
HAHAHA sorry thats really funny
I pass on EVERYTHING
I hand my mystery boxes to another person (i met here actually)
And I am ISSUED gear by starfleet which I do use
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
The escort should get NOTHING if the cruiser does all the work
the cruiser isn't doing all the work. cruiser absorbs the damage from the enemy, escort pours the damage on the enemy.
no the Cruiser destroys the enemy
the escort merely acts like a wasp
whats hard to understand about that? its a synergistic teamwork. if compared to say, a medieval knight, the cruiser is the shield and the escort is the sword/mace/flail.
nope
the Cruiser IS the knight
the Escort is a peasant archer hiding behind a tree
you do not see knights that block attacks with the mace and attack with the shield at the same time, do you?
Actually I(as someone who does fight with a sword and shield sometimes in real life) can assure you that the shield IS a weapon and the mace is better used from horseback
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
there is a difference between "rewards" and "honour"
the honour of the Victory belongs to those who fought with honour
and letting someone else bleed for you is not so honourable is it
it would be dishonorable if you do not return the favor he does you by raining down hell on the attacker while the guy takes the blows for you
.
Ah you mean the "thank you for stealing my kill"so popular in mmos
"letting someone else bleed for you" is honorable if you are actually going to be there to obliterate said enemy that is making the guy "bleed" for you.
so you regard human shields as honourable??
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
A CRUISER
and no you can't
I have had a personal message from someone who says he has seen you in action and says (and I quote) "A Hide and seek merchant"
nebula science vessel. and a pm from someone that has seen me in action? pray tell, do say what he said the name of my science officer was. i can tell you flat out that it is not ryuuenjin. oh and by the way, if you hadn't noticed, i'm calling you out on your bs.
He didn't actually say
but i guess I could ask
as to BS you are not qualified to call anyone out on their Bach Sci degree
anyo
ne that has "seen me in action" has done so because they are friends of mine that live just down the street from me in real life. we all love trek and joined in when we heard about a star trek mmo being made about 2 years ago. our fleet is small but we all know each other in real life and that makes it better for me than any big fleet where people don't really get the chance to know each other personally. and at this point in time all said friends of mine are fast asleep as i'm the nightowl of the bunch and its currently 5:26 am as of the time i am typing this.
All i know is that someone who isn't you (and thus has more status in speaking as he doesn't swear) said you play hide and seek
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
if it were even remotely true which frankly its not
you call people names of a scatalogical nature because you are not capable of being adult about it when people disagree
you shame your ancestors
you shame your ancestors and their ancestors before them with your inane ramblings of a syphillitic mind.
You need to grow up or shut up
your constant sexual and scatalogical insults mark you down as 12 at most
edit : the nebula science vessel DOES have less weapons and engineering slots than a galaxy retrofit, just fyi.
The Nebula TACTICAL Cruiser is a choice you made
gal r : 8 weapon slots (4 fore 4 aft), boff slots - commander engineer, lt. commander engineer, ensign engineer (total of 8 engineering powers)
nebula science vessel : 6 weapon slots (3 fore 3 aft) boff slots - lt. commander engineering, potential engineering use in lt. universal slot (total of 5 engineering powers)
So swap ships
but either way stop with the abuse
because you lost this before you started
Brace for impact
many optional boff powers
Some consoles and options
moving out of the way
brace for impact is a universal captain power. not a tactical one.
i asked for tactical captain abilities, not bridge officer ones.
consoles are things everyone has access to, not just tactical captains.
everyone can move out the way, not just tactical captains.
now again, what abilities do tactical captains have that count towards survivability?
You fly a cruiser yes
but you TANK which means you are not filling the science role
funny, i made mention on another thread of the science abilities i use, in conjunction with taking the brunt of the blows from things like spheres, cubes, or tactical cubes. so i'm pretty sure i'm fulfilling a science role.
An "alpha strike" by an escort can take a target vessel from 25% to detonation in a matter of SECONDS
the ship that was making a timed run past it (and would have killed it before moving out of range is destroyed by the incompetence of the Escort )
Especially if the poor cruiser does not have an evasive or a brace ready because two other escorts already pulled this in the last couple of minutes
seconds are more than plenty to set up defensive abilities if one has situational awareness.
HAHAHA sorry thats really funny
I pass on EVERYTHING
I hand my mystery boxes to another person (i met here actually)
And I am ISSUED gear by starfleet which I do use
i mean everything. including dilithium and energy credits. after all, the federation does not believe in the notion of currency.
Actually I(as someone who does fight with a sword and shield sometimes in real life) can assure you that the shield IS a weapon and the mace is better used from horseback
actually a polearm is better used from horseback, or a lance. the shield, while capable for offense, is primarily a defensive tool meant to defend the knight. heck, applying it to star trek, you don't really see starships attacking each other with their shields, and blocking phaser fire with phaser fire, do you?
if the guy offered up his body to protect someone else, yes they are. theres a reason the president of the united states has "bodyguards" and not "dishonorable men in suits following him".
Escorts are a ship which in the Series was commanded by Commanders and below
Cruisers get a captain usually (sometimes an Admiral or other big brass)
so because of how it was in the TV show, is how it HAS to be in the game? and what Admiral was the CO of what ship? also, if we are looking at the TV shows, when Commander Sisko was given command of the Defiant, an escort, he was promoted to Captain. so now, what escorts were commanded by a Commander? even the red squad cadet commanding the Valiant, another escort, had a field commission of Captain
brace for impact is a universal captain power. not a tactical one.
i asked for tactical captain abilities, not bridge officer ones.
consoles are things everyone has access to, not just tactical captains.
everyone can move out the way, not just tactical captains.
now again, what abilities do tactical captains have that count towards survivability?
same as any other captain depends on the skill base
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
You fly a cruiser yes
but you TANK which means you are not filling the science role
funny, i made mention on another thread of the science abilities i use, in conjunction with taking the brunt of the blows from things like spheres, cubes, or tactical cubes. so i'm pretty sure i'm fulfilling a science role.
#nope you tank so you do not carry out your ACTUAL duties
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
An "alpha strike" by an escort can take a target vessel from 25% to detonation in a matter of SECONDS
the ship that was making a timed run past it (and would have killed it before moving out of range is destroyed by the incompetence of the Escort )
Especially if the poor cruiser does not have an evasive or a brace ready because two other escorts already pulled this in the last couple of minutes
seconds are more than plenty to set up defensive abilities if one has situational awareness.
AND the abilities charged and read AND can see the ship that just got zeroed
AND are not being commed by some jerk demanding you stop and tank for them
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
you really need to read
the escort contributes nothing
the victory belongs only to the ship that took a beating for the poor little escort
the escort deals damage, more so than your pathetic cruiser can. and as a team effort, the victory goes to the whole team
the escort usually just blows the optionals and quits actually
Especially in mirror universe events
not quite so bad in stf but many escorts leave if the optional fails because of their own incompetence
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
HAHAHA sorry thats really funny
I pass on EVERYTHING
I hand my mystery boxes to another person (i met here actually)
And I am ISSUED gear by starfleet which I do use
i mean everything. including dilithium and energy credits. after all, the federation does not believe in the notion of currency.
does to a certain degree
and have you ever TRIED getting rid of dilith??
you can't discard it and selling it on the exchange just turns it into c points
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
no the Cruiser destroys the enemy
the escort merely acts like a wasp
if the cruiser is yours, i hardly believe you capable of destroying anything.
I destroyed more ships than you have Iq points this week alone
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
nope
the Cruiser IS the knight
the Escort is a peasant archer hiding behind a tree
way to misunderstand the symbolism. the knight is the entirety of the team. not one of the ships that compose the team.
The knight stands alone
or rides with other knights
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
Actually I(as someone who does fight with a sword and shield sometimes in real life) can assure you that the shield IS a weapon and the mace is better used from horseback
actually a polearm is better used from horseback, or a lance. the shield, while capable for offense, is primarily a defensive tool meant to defend the knight. heck, applying it to star trek, you don't really see starships attacking each other with their shields, and blocking phaser fire with phaser fire, do you?
Yes actually we do
modulated shield pulses have been used as a weapon
and I ment that the mace is not a footmans weapon
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
Ah you mean the "thank you for stealing my kill"so popular in mmos
lol. if only kill stealing were actually an issue in STO. but it isn't. a kill isn't "stolen" since the reward from it is distributed to the team.
but the kill credit isn't (accolades)
escorts playing "swipe the kill" are common
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
so you regard human shields as honourable??
if the guy offered up his body to protect someone else, yes they are. theres a reason the president of the united states has "bodyguards" and not "dishonorable men in suits following him".
he doesn't
the president of the USA has secret service men
ESCORTS
who die to protect him
you notice he does not TANK for them
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
He didn't actually say
but i guess I could ask
as to BS you are not qualified to call anyone out on their Bach Sci degree
if he didn't say the name of my science captain, then how are you absolutely certain its me?
I can't be
He might merely be making trouble
BUT Id take the word of someone who used my actual name when disagreeing with me over you any day
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
All i know is that someone who isn't you (and thus has more status in speaking as he doesn't swear) said you play hide and seek
so you're lying and full of bull****.
nope you are
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
The Nebula TACTICAL Cruiser is a choice you made
So swap ships
but either way stop with the abuse
because you lost this before you started
swap ships? why? apparently i do a better job with a ship that has lesser engineering and weaponry options than you do.
nope you lose a lot
you tank which means you are part of a construct team
you miss out on being any good because of it
perhaps if you flew solo and learned not to tank you could one day be as good as a newbie
edit : if its all the same, i will stick with my nebula SCIENCE VESSEL
stick with what you wish
but remember when it gets a 30 level threat modifier slapped on it you wanted it not the rest of us
so because of how it was in the TV show, is how it HAS to be in the game? and what Admiral was the CO of what ship? also, if we are looking at the TV shows, when Commander Sisko was given command of the Defiant, an escort, he was promoted to Captain. so now, what escorts were commanded by a Commander? even the red squad cadet commanding the Valiant, another escort, had a field commission of Captain
Worf commanded the defiant
Sisko commanded the station
Admiral kirk
Admiral "nuke the innocent" janeway
and several commodores in tos for a start
edit : the nebula science vessel DOES have less weapons and engineering slots than a galaxy retrofit, just fyi.
The Nebula TACTICAL Cruiser is a choice you made .
The T5 Nebula Refit's full title in game is "Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit".
It gets bonuses to Aux power, not shields or weapons.
It has only 3 fore weapon slots, and 3 rear weapon slots
It can't use Heavy Cannons.
It doesn't have any hangar bays.
The Universal Console that comes with it grants a Sensor buff, not a Tactical or Weaponry Buff.
It can use Beam:Target Subsystem Commands, and has Sensor Analysis.
It's a Science Vessel.
Albeit a Science Vessel with a bit more hull and a bit less turn rate.
It's not quite a Cruiser, and it's certainly not an Escort or a Tactical Ship.
That said, a Nebula Refit can be built to do a LOT of damage in STFs, but only if you exploit its Science Commander level BOFF slot by taking PSW3 or GW3 and investing heavilly into boosting your Particle Generator Science Skill.
I've got a Tac Captain who flies a Nebula. He doesn't have very much in the way of AoE damage, but he can out-DPS most Escorts over time versus single targets like Borg Structures or Cubes. He can also solo Elite Tac Cubes... but not without using GW/Tykens or staying out of range of the Torpedo Arcs. In my experience it's just been too much potential hull damage to reliably weather; even with Hazard Emitters and Aux2SIF running constantly, plus 2x Monotanium Engineering Consoles and a MK XII MACO shield...
The real danger from ESTF Cubes comes from them combining their Plasma Torpedo Shots with the ability Torpedo High Yield III - you can see this happening in your combat log - when they do this it turns the standard shots (which aren't much danger) into targettable, slower moving torpedos which are often invisible (preventing you from reacting to them) and which inflict massive damage. They'll usually kill anyone - even Cruisers - in one hit, unless you're appropriately geared to withstand them.
I've been criticalled from one of those Heavy Torpedo Shots before for well over 300k Hitpoints. Shields and Resistances can reduce that number substantially, but not by more than ~85% even with your shields up. And a Nebula only has 30k base hull. In my experience it takes something with a lot more hull hitpoints and a few spare engineering console slots, such as one of the largest Cruisers, to be able to weather those shots via resistances alone.
IMO all ship types have their places on STFs. Escorts are just generally more visible at making things die faster (whether this is via raw DPS or resistance debuffs) than others are.
same as any other captain depends on the skill base
"same as any other captain" =/= tactical captains abilities. again, please, do list the abilities tactical captains have privy to that allow them to mitigate damage.
AND the abilities charged and read AND can see the ship that just got zeroed
AND are not being commed by some jerk demanding you stop and tank for them
i'll take "don't be an idiot by using all your defensive buffs right away" for $500 Alex.
the escort usually just blows the optionals and quits actually
Especially in mirror universe events
not quite so bad in stf but many escorts leave if the optional fails because of their own incompetence
you have a horrible record then considering that i've yet to see an escort leave on an stf on my end. and that includes mirror universe. hmm.. if escorts dont leave when we do things my way but they do when you do things your way, something must be wrong with you.
does to a certain degree
and have you ever TRIED getting rid of dilith??
you can't discard it and selling it on the exchange just turns it into c points
1)buy junk in the dilithium store (yknow where you buy ship gear for dilith)
2)sell to replicator for ec
3)give ec to someone
4)?????
5) NOT PROFIT
The knight stands alone
or rides with other knights
knights do not "stand alone". grow up and stop believing in fairytale knights. knights and the title of knighthood has been a longstanding title bestowed on mounted warriors.[/quote]
Yes actually we do
modulated shield pulses have been used as a weapon
and I ment that the mace is not a footmans weapon
oh? do tell, where are these modulated shield pulse weapons in STO? oh and by the way, the mace was a weapon that could and was used by anyone. the only difference between a cavalier's mace and a lowly footman's is that the cavalier's were longer (footman's maces were about two to three feet in length).
he doesn't
the president of the USA has secret service men
ESCORTS
who die to protect him
you notice he does not TANK for them
they are not escorts. if one were to compare the president to a cruiser and the secret service to escorts, secret service men would be diminuitive fast people. but they arent. a good amount of them are just as big or even bigger than the POTUS. therefore, the more likely comparison is that the bodyguards are more akin to cruisers as far as "tanking" goes.
nope you lose a lot
you tank which means you are part of a construct team
you miss out on being any good because of it
if i miss out on being any good then how come i, by being a team player and negating damage from being directed towards my teammates, always get praised for having done such a great job of neutralizing threats to the team? your logic is flawed there.
perhaps if you flew solo and learned not to tank you could one day be as good as a newbie
that makes no sense at all. if one flies solo one would learn to tank even more. there is no "other player" to run off to and heal. just yourself. you'd end up learning what you need to survive taking on bigger foes in doing so.
but remember when it gets a 30 level threat modifier slapped on it you wanted it not the rest of us
here you go again trying to speak for people other than yourself. i would not take as much cynicism if you were to represent yourself accordingly and say "i did not want it". as it is, even on the other thread you were a minority.
Threat control has some bonus to your deference but its basically for those people who want to fly into a stf and go SHOOT ME!!! i personally love it when people are screaming mad when they get killed and don't realize that they had something in threat control. i would personally change the name of it to something that would go along with what is actually dose not something that could mean two thing.
2. your kind of thinking has weakened and nearly ERASED the science ships from teams
they can't "dps" and they can't"heal" they are just to you wasted spaces
3. which only works if you KNOW some idiot is going to zero you
4. you are merely acting as a deployable turret at most
5. Rewards
Ah how very starfleet (not)
greed and glory hounding
how very very NOT starfleet
6. The escort should get NOTHING if the cruiser does all the work
7. there is a difference between "rewards" and "honour"
the honour of the Victory belongs to those who fought with honour
and letting someone else bleed for you is not so honourable is it
A CRUISER
8. and no you can't
I have had a personal message from someone who says he has seen you in action and says (and I quote) "A Hide and seek merchant"
9. if it were even remotely true which frankly its not
you call people names of a scatalogical nature because you are not capable of being adult about it when people disagree
you shame your ancestors
1. Whats your basis for this claim
2. Science ships have their uses still, no one ever said otherwise
3. If you?re a tank you know you?r going to get targeted
4. If I?m in an escort and I can sit and keep my bow facing the target, all the better to maximize my dps.
5. Umm I?m no Starfleet, I?m an Orion Privateer, I work with the KDF, but I?m a mercenary.
6. The escort is part of the team and dealing damage, where is he doing nothing
7. I?m a merc, the reward is the whole purpose
8. How do you know he/she can?t
9. Again, how do you know
I think that's the last straw in this thread.
I'm out of here, have fun folks.
take care mael. and seriously, repulsor. even a low level one knocks a high yield plasma dead. also, watch the icon of the cube you have targetted. you can easily tell if they blew their high yield when the icon vanishes. just pop repulsor then and that takes care of any potential invisible high yield torp. it hasn't failed me yet, and i do hope it does not fail you as well.
Comments
Honestly, I don't see any misinformation in the OP.
I don't agree with sollvax's choices or views on only Tacs being tanks, but he isn't forcing those choices on anyone else, merely stating his preferences.
Personally, I can "Tank" on a Sci, a Tac, or an Eng, but only my Engineer is skilled into Threat Control (regardless of whether he's flying an Odyssey or an Escort). The main thing about tanking, from an efficency point of view, is the extra Armor Consoles and shield power setting bonuses and higher tier versions of EPTS that are available to Cruisers.
Oh, and I hate having more than two Ensign Tactical slots too. Once I'm sufficiently covered with Tactical Team, about the only thing I've ever found to throw in there that's worth a damn is Torpedo Spread I...
don't wet your pants SOILvax.
once again, a bit hypocritical there to say "anyone who doesn't want to should never have to" but not amend the previous statement that "tacs should be the ones tanking"
you also have a horrible definition of tanking if you think anyone that takes the incoming fire of the enemy is just going to roll over and die.
"close engaging" is not tanking. its closing in and attacking. once again, tanking is getting the attention of the enemy and retaining it there, allowing for other ships to fire freely on said enemy without fear of attracting the unwanted attention or sustaining any damage at all.
and you still haven't explained how a scenario of 1 guy being capable of taking the mightiest of blows from enemies like elite tactical cubes without dying, allowing his 4 other teammates to just use all of their offensive capabilities against said cube without having to break away to heal or replenish shields is worse than 2 escorts dead and on respawn cooldown while the three surviving ships are taking turns shooting and being shot at by an elite tactical cube.
edit : @maelwy5 - an ommission of fact is still misinformation. SOILHISPANTSvax over here forgot to make mention that you get a defensive bonus along with the threat generation increase.
go and pray to your grandfathers for forgiveness for disrespecting your ancestors
They are the men trained and equipped for the role
Thus if anyone should be tanking it should be the BEST trained for combat
tactical officers.
Thus when I "Tank" which is a wrong word Its with a tactical officer
anyone who stands the skevstorm while others COWER can hold only as long as they have shield and hull repairs available
as no escort will heal a cruiser and as you have all but WIPED out science officers Tanks are meat shields
Correct close engaging WORKS unless some escort pilot zeroes you (blows up ships directly under your hull)
tanking doesn't work so well
so the REDUNDANT escorts get the reward and the cruiser captain gets to bleed for you ??
it he is tanking the victory is his ALONE and you are doing nothing
(incidentally the right cruiser (the X) can solo that cube even if you log out)
My R can't solo the cube on elite (you need two R class cruisers to take it on without getting pulped)
But THREE Galaxy R's can take it apart without anyone having to bleed
any chance of one of our community moderators telling him to stop ??
Thanks
except in this game the best trained for combat survival is an engineer in space and a science officer in ground. so the tac any which way you slice it is out of the picture.
the escort doesn't need to heal the cruiser if the cruiser can heal himself. and just how would the science officers be wiped out if they arent even taking damage? are you even thinking before you respond?
except theres a plethora of abilities that don't even share cooldowns, all of which either mitigate or minimize things like kinetic damage (from ships blowing up under your hull)
how is he getting victory alone? stfs are a team based thing. and theres no special pool that gives you a reward based on how much damage you do. its all randomized. the escort has as much of a chance to get a certain type of loot as a reward as the cruiser tanking. and if he clears the mission, guess what? you clear the mission as well. the game does not segragate players that do the STF. theres no "this guy in your team has accomplished the mission but you instead have failed and will have to queue up again" prompt. its always either the team succeeded in the mission or failed. please do elaborate on how the escort has "the victory alone"
and you cant solo the cube on elite? thats just disgraceful. i can solo the elite tactical cube in the last phase of infected space elite (which has more hitpoints than the one in KA elite) in my nebula science vessel. i have less engineering capability and less weaponry than you do and i can do what you can't? that it will take three of you to do what i can do by myself? thats pretty sad.
From here:
That's Damage Resistance by the way, not Defense.
(Both are types of damage mitigation, but they work and stack differently)
your kind of thinking has weakened and nearly ERASED the science ships from teams
they can't "dps" and they can't"heal" they are just to you wasted spaces
which only works if you KNOW some idiot is going to zero you
#
you are merely acting as a deployable turret at most
Rewards
Ah how very starfleet (not)
greed and glory hounding
how very very NOT starfleet
.
The escort should get NOTHING if the cruiser does all the work
there is a difference between "rewards" and "honour"
the honour of the Victory belongs to those who fought with honour
and letting someone else bleed for you is not so honourable is it
A CRUISER
and no you can't
I have had a personal message from someone who says he has seen you in action and says (and I quote) "A Hide and seek merchant"
if it were even remotely true which frankly its not
you call people names of a scatalogical nature because you are not capable of being adult about it when people disagree
you shame your ancestors
Well I wouldn't call it disgraceful...
I can solo the Tac Elite Cube on any of my Captains: Cruiser, Science Vessel, Escort or Carrier. And although I don't fly one, I'm pretty sure even a BoP could do it with the right setup.
In my opinion:
The thing Escorts bring most to the table in STFs is Attack Pattern Beta III. It's hard to beat what amounts to a buff that doubles the damage output of your entire team. Cruisers, whilst perfectly capable of soloing any single enemy on an Elite STF, simply don't have anything to compare to that... which is why Cruisers tend to function better as damage sponges. And in order to be able to pull aggro off a good escort, they'll need to invest in Threat Control because the DPS of an Escort can always beat the raw dps of a Cruiser (the ability to use DHCs is the main culprit here, but even if you're flying a KDF Cruiser or the Fed Dreadnaught, the extra higher tier Tac slots on an Escort will mean better DPS).
Science Vessels are trickier to categorise. a Good Science Vessel can output nearly as much raw DPS as a Cruiser, and use its Science BOFF powers to make up the difference in additional DPS and/or hold enemy ships in place for extra Critical Hit effectiveness or to keep them away from STF mission objectives.
However, I'd hold that the type of Captain - Tactical/Science/Engineering - has much LESS impact on space combat than what ship type you're flying. Engineers are slightly Tankier with 'Rotate Shield Frequency', Tacs have slightly better DPS with 'Attack Pattern Alpha' and 'Fire on My Mark'... Scis are somewhere in between. Ground combat is another story, as each role can only slot certain kits.
and don't claim I can when I can't
(i define soloing as beating it without Respawning)
Is there really any need for that, you can get your point across with out name calling, infact it just makes you look immature.
Ultimately it's up to the individual player as to what skills they pick, I'm a tac captain piloting a cruiser . . and i haven't put one point in the threat skill, and later i realised i didn't really have to . . since i've taken aggro of others in my team due to DPS . . i heal those who need it when ever those skills recharge, to try an pervent people from popping . . tanking or not, it's down to team work and helping others . . rather than it's his job to do that and their job to do this. This is of course how i like to play, and only MY opinion.
After reading through this thread assuming the point of view of a compleatly new player doing research, i would find all this conflicting information most confusing . . whos right, who's wrong ?? I would have no idea, leading me to do my own research.
So i would have to conclude, the only 2 useful things a new player could get from this thread when you cut out all the TRIBBLE-for-tat and squabbling is.
1) Read the skills carefully before committing points, and think if tanking suits your playing method = Sollvax
2) Engineering captains make the best tanks and are perhaps best suited for the threat skill. = Other posters
Just out of curosuty did you skill into it and cant reskill out of it becauae you have no respec tokens? I am trying to figure out what your problem with it is.
CRUISERS NEED A 206% HULL BUFF
oh it is, is it? please do enlighten me and list the number of damage mitigation abilities that tactical captains have.
it has? funny then that i constantly mention that i am a science officer and that i fly a nebula science vessel.
situational awareness seems to be something of a necessity for people that know how to tank or do well in their ship. it appears you do not have this ability.
that does not explain how the escort "gets victory alone"
thats what is given at the end of stfs though. but hey, preacher man, if you say that its not the very starfleet thing to do, surely you would have no qualms jetisonning all these nasty "not starfleet" rewards that the game gives you.
the cruiser isn't doing all the work. cruiser absorbs the damage from the enemy, escort pours the damage on the enemy. whats hard to understand about that? its a synergistic teamwork. if compared to say, a medieval knight, the cruiser is the shield and the escort is the sword/mace/flail. you do not see knights that block attacks with the mace and attack with the shield at the same time, do you?
it would be dishonorable if you do not return the favor he does you by raining down hell on the attacker while the guy takes the blows for you. "letting someone else bleed for you" is honorable if you are actually going to be there to obliterate said enemy that is making the guy "bleed" for you.
nebula science vessel. and a pm from someone that has seen me in action? pray tell, do say what he said the name of my science officer was. i can tell you flat out that it is not ryuuenjin. oh and by the way, if you hadn't noticed, i'm calling you out on your bs. anyone that has "seen me in action" has done so because they are friends of mine that live just down the street from me in real life. we all love trek and joined in when we heard about a star trek mmo being made about 2 years ago. our fleet is small but we all know each other in real life and that makes it better for me than any big fleet where people don't really get the chance to know each other personally. and at this point in time all said friends of mine are fast asleep as i'm the nightowl of the bunch and its currently 5:26 am as of the time i am typing this.
you shame your ancestors and their ancestors before them with your inane ramblings of a syphillitic mind.
edit : the nebula science vessel DOES have less weapons and engineering slots than a galaxy retrofit, just fyi.
gal r : 8 weapon slots (4 fore 4 aft), boff slots - commander engineer, lt. commander engineer, ensign engineer (total of 8 engineering powers)
nebula science vessel : 6 weapon slots (3 fore 3 aft) boff slots - lt. commander engineering, potential engineering use in lt. universal slot (total of 5 engineering powers)
Same.
The trick is to negate the Heavy Torpedo Shots.
You can do this via four ways:
(1) By always keeping up a sliver of shields, combined with stacked Kinetic damage resistance (and ideally also a Resilient Shield to cut the bleedthrough component in half)
(2) By Shooting them down before they hit you. This is tricky to accomplish manually because some torpedos are invisible due to Graphic effect bugs, but using AoE damage powers such as Cannon Scatter Volley, or using Deployable Damage Patches such as Gravity Well, Tyken's Rift or Eject Warp Plasma will blow them up fairly reliably.
(3) By preventing the cube from firing at you. The easiest method of this is to sit out of the torpedo arcs - directly above or directly below the cube.
(4) By draining all the cube's weapon power. You need to drain ALL power for this to work since torpedo damage isn't reduced by lowering Weapons energy, you actually need to take the entire system offline completely. Aceton Assimilator, Plasmonic Leech and Power Siphon Drones are your best bet for this, it's pretty easy to build a KDF ship to do this but it's hard to get it to work Fedside.
I used to abuse method (3), as it's the most reliable... but after a large amount of practice I currently use a combination of methods (1) and (2) for Escorts and Sci Vessels, and method (1) for Cruisers.
[Note though, that whilst I'm technically able to solo the cubes doesn't mean I do it regularly. I'll happilly tank the cube and soak up the damage from it for my teammates, but not with the intention of soloing it. It's significantly more efficient in actual gameplay to just keep all your weapons pointed at the cube at point blank range, and if the Heavy Torpedo Hits you and method (1) fails, to respawn. The splash damage from a Heavy Torpedo hit on YOU at point blank range will damage the cube severely as well, leading to faster STF completion...]
i only use two tricks to negate the heavy plasma torpedos. (i guess technically three)
1) brace for impact. no seriously, the most damage a plasma torpedo from the infected elite tac has done to my nebula with bracing on doesn't even get me anywhere past 70% hull, thats with being held in a tractor beam (thereby removing any movement defense bonuses)
2) use tractor beam repulsor on the plasma torpedo. tac cubes are hefty enough to not get repelled by repulsors and plasma torpedoes immediately die from being repelled (no missing, no worries about invisible torps if you watch their icon and see that the high yield buff vanished), move a little outside of the torpedoes arc just a little so that you can have repulsors at the ready again if the cube launches another torp(this step i guess counts as #3).
Actually, convincing your enemies to attack the strongest point in your defenses is a very sound tactical strategy, after all, if they attack the weakest point, they get through faster. and escorts make bad tactical ships? really? the ships with the most tactical BO slots? and if you think a tactical officer's job is to derive tactics, your wrong, look at Worf, he was the tactical officer on the enterprise, did he tell them how to engage any of the enemies they fought? no he fired the weapons when his commanding officer told him to.
it is though my opinion, that Engineering officers make the best tanks for space, with a cruiser, due to the ship repair skills they have access to.
and Science officers make the best tanks on ground combat due to the self heals they have access to.
Well, not quite.
Ship type is secondary to Captain role for potential DPS and survivability. A Tactical Officer in a Star Cruiser is going to be more difficult to kill than an Engineering Captain in an Advanced Escort; but the Engineer will do more damage.
Engineering Captains bring Rotate Shield Frequency and Miracle Worker to the table. Technically that makes them potentially the most survivable captains, but not the best tanks. You can't Tank if you're not the one being shot at. Which is where achievable raw DPS, combined with the "Threat Control" skill comes in.
That said, Traits can add a lot of effectiveness as well.
Most particularly the "Accurate" and "Elusive" traits.
And then there are the multitude of BOFF power choices...
It's all in how you build!
Yeah I can see a flight deck CRUISER in the hands of a TACTICAL officer not being a very good tank, but since I'm an ENGINEERING officer, using a flight deck CRUISER, and I can solo tactical cubes and/or Donatra on elite, yeah I'm pretty sure flight deck CRUISERs make an ok tanking ship. meanwhile, when i'm tanking in space, i don't need the team to heal me up, I can do it myself, since I am an Engineering officer with the appropriate engineering BOff skills at my finger tips. this leaves the 4 others in my team to go all out on the big bad monster while it slaps at me in vain and I laugh off its damage. if I was playing as a tactical officer, I do not believe I would have the survivability, after all, the game is not designed that way. oh and I also find the Stodi to be a joke, and I can hold my own in Terradome space also. all thanks to being an Engineering captain, using a cruiser with the appropriate BOffs and having Threat control.
Well there you go, i've learnt something new just there . . and i agree, it is all about your build and the boff powers you choose . . being a tac captain, i've maxed the accurate, weapon power & Elusive skills . . leaving "Threat control" free, although i sill can draw aggro just by being a pain in the butt to the NPC's due to the bonus damage i can do . . lol. :biggrin:
Brace for impact
many optional boff powers
Some consoles and options
moving out of the way
You fly a cruiser yes
but you TANK which means you are not filling the science role
An "alpha strike" by an escort can take a target vessel from 25% to detonation in a matter of SECONDS
the ship that was making a timed run past it (and would have killed it before moving out of range is destroyed by the incompetence of the Escort )
Especially if the poor cruiser does not have an evasive or a brace ready because two other escorts already pulled this in the last couple of minutes
you really need to read
the escort contributes nothing
the victory belongs only to the ship that took a beating for the poor little escort
HAHAHA sorry thats really funny
I pass on EVERYTHING
I hand my mystery boxes to another person (i met here actually)
And I am ISSUED gear by starfleet which I do use
no the Cruiser destroys the enemy
the escort merely acts like a wasp
nope
the Cruiser IS the knight
the Escort is a peasant archer hiding behind a tree
Actually I(as someone who does fight with a sword and shield sometimes in real life) can assure you that the shield IS a weapon and the mace is better used from horseback
.
Ah you mean the "thank you for stealing my kill"so popular in mmos
so you regard human shields as honourable??
He didn't actually say
but i guess I could ask
as to BS you are not qualified to call anyone out on their Bach Sci degree
anyo
All i know is that someone who isn't you (and thus has more status in speaking as he doesn't swear) said you play hide and seek
You need to grow up or shut up
your constant sexual and scatalogical insults mark you down as 12 at most
The Nebula TACTICAL Cruiser is a choice you made
So swap ships
but either way stop with the abuse
because you lost this before you started
brace for impact is a universal captain power. not a tactical one.
i asked for tactical captain abilities, not bridge officer ones.
consoles are things everyone has access to, not just tactical captains.
everyone can move out the way, not just tactical captains.
now again, what abilities do tactical captains have that count towards survivability?
funny, i made mention on another thread of the science abilities i use, in conjunction with taking the brunt of the blows from things like spheres, cubes, or tactical cubes. so i'm pretty sure i'm fulfilling a science role.
seconds are more than plenty to set up defensive abilities if one has situational awareness.
the escort deals damage, more so than your pathetic cruiser can. and as a team effort, the victory goes to the whole team
i mean everything. including dilithium and energy credits. after all, the federation does not believe in the notion of currency.
if the cruiser is yours, i hardly believe you capable of destroying anything.
way to misunderstand the symbolism. the knight is the entirety of the team. not one of the ships that compose the team.
actually a polearm is better used from horseback, or a lance. the shield, while capable for offense, is primarily a defensive tool meant to defend the knight. heck, applying it to star trek, you don't really see starships attacking each other with their shields, and blocking phaser fire with phaser fire, do you?
lol. if only kill stealing were actually an issue in STO. but it isn't. a kill isn't "stolen" since the reward from it is distributed to the team.
if the guy offered up his body to protect someone else, yes they are. theres a reason the president of the united states has "bodyguards" and not "dishonorable men in suits following him".
if he didn't say the name of my science captain, then how are you absolutely certain its me?
so you're lying and full of bull****.
swap ships? why? apparently i do a better job with a ship that has lesser engineering and weaponry options than you do.
edit : if its all the same, i will stick with my nebula SCIENCE VESSEL
so because of how it was in the TV show, is how it HAS to be in the game? and what Admiral was the CO of what ship? also, if we are looking at the TV shows, when Commander Sisko was given command of the Defiant, an escort, he was promoted to Captain. so now, what escorts were commanded by a Commander? even the red squad cadet commanding the Valiant, another escort, had a field commission of Captain
same as any other captain depends on the skill base
#nope you tank so you do not carry out your ACTUAL duties
AND the abilities charged and read AND can see the ship that just got zeroed
AND are not being commed by some jerk demanding you stop and tank for them
the escort usually just blows the optionals and quits actually
Especially in mirror universe events
not quite so bad in stf but many escorts leave if the optional fails because of their own incompetence
Quote:
does to a certain degree
and have you ever TRIED getting rid of dilith??
you can't discard it and selling it on the exchange just turns it into c points
I destroyed more ships than you have Iq points this week alone
The knight stands alone
or rides with other knights
Yes actually we do
modulated shield pulses have been used as a weapon
and I ment that the mace is not a footmans weapon
but the kill credit isn't (accolades)
escorts playing "swipe the kill" are common
he doesn't
the president of the USA has secret service men
ESCORTS
who die to protect him
you notice he does not TANK for them
I can't be
He might merely be making trouble
BUT Id take the word of someone who used my actual name when disagreeing with me over you any day
nope you are
nope you lose a lot
you tank which means you are part of a construct team
you miss out on being any good because of it
perhaps if you flew solo and learned not to tank you could one day be as good as a newbie
stick with what you wish
but remember when it gets a 30 level threat modifier slapped on it you wanted it not the rest of us
Worf commanded the defiant
Sisko commanded the station
Admiral kirk
Admiral "nuke the innocent" janeway
and several commodores in tos for a start
The T5 Nebula Refit's full title in game is "Advanced Research Vessel Retrofit".
It gets bonuses to Aux power, not shields or weapons.
It has only 3 fore weapon slots, and 3 rear weapon slots
It can't use Heavy Cannons.
It doesn't have any hangar bays.
The Universal Console that comes with it grants a Sensor buff, not a Tactical or Weaponry Buff.
It can use Beam:Target Subsystem Commands, and has Sensor Analysis.
It's a Science Vessel.
Albeit a Science Vessel with a bit more hull and a bit less turn rate.
It's not quite a Cruiser, and it's certainly not an Escort or a Tactical Ship.
That said, a Nebula Refit can be built to do a LOT of damage in STFs, but only if you exploit its Science Commander level BOFF slot by taking PSW3 or GW3 and investing heavilly into boosting your Particle Generator Science Skill.
I've got a Tac Captain who flies a Nebula. He doesn't have very much in the way of AoE damage, but he can out-DPS most Escorts over time versus single targets like Borg Structures or Cubes. He can also solo Elite Tac Cubes... but not without using GW/Tykens or staying out of range of the Torpedo Arcs. In my experience it's just been too much potential hull damage to reliably weather; even with Hazard Emitters and Aux2SIF running constantly, plus 2x Monotanium Engineering Consoles and a MK XII MACO shield...
The real danger from ESTF Cubes comes from them combining their Plasma Torpedo Shots with the ability Torpedo High Yield III - you can see this happening in your combat log - when they do this it turns the standard shots (which aren't much danger) into targettable, slower moving torpedos which are often invisible (preventing you from reacting to them) and which inflict massive damage. They'll usually kill anyone - even Cruisers - in one hit, unless you're appropriately geared to withstand them.
I've been criticalled from one of those Heavy Torpedo Shots before for well over 300k Hitpoints. Shields and Resistances can reduce that number substantially, but not by more than ~85% even with your shields up. And a Nebula only has 30k base hull. In my experience it takes something with a lot more hull hitpoints and a few spare engineering console slots, such as one of the largest Cruisers, to be able to weather those shots via resistances alone.
IMO all ship types have their places on STFs. Escorts are just generally more visible at making things die faster (whether this is via raw DPS or resistance debuffs) than others are.
"same as any other captain" =/= tactical captains abilities. again, please, do list the abilities tactical captains have privy to that allow them to mitigate damage.
ah, so youre implying that i am as bad as you and can only perform one task at a time. thats cute. please do learn how to multi task.
i'll take "don't be an idiot by using all your defensive buffs right away" for $500 Alex.
you have a horrible record then considering that i've yet to see an escort leave on an stf on my end. and that includes mirror universe. hmm.. if escorts dont leave when we do things my way but they do when you do things your way, something must be wrong with you.
1)buy junk in the dilithium store (yknow where you buy ship gear for dilith)
2)sell to replicator for ec
3)give ec to someone
4)?????
5) NOT PROFIT
only a little over 152 ships? step it up, i do that much in 2 days.
knights do not "stand alone". grow up and stop believing in fairytale knights. knights and the title of knighthood has been a longstanding title bestowed on mounted warriors.[/quote]
oh? do tell, where are these modulated shield pulse weapons in STO? oh and by the way, the mace was a weapon that could and was used by anyone. the only difference between a cavalier's mace and a lowly footman's is that the cavalier's were longer (footman's maces were about two to three feet in length).
oh so, doing it to get accolades. now who is the glory hound?
they are not escorts. if one were to compare the president to a cruiser and the secret service to escorts, secret service men would be diminuitive fast people. but they arent. a good amount of them are just as big or even bigger than the POTUS. therefore, the more likely comparison is that the bodyguards are more akin to cruisers as far as "tanking" goes.
so personal bias clouds your common sense. good going there.
if i miss out on being any good then how come i, by being a team player and negating damage from being directed towards my teammates, always get praised for having done such a great job of neutralizing threats to the team? your logic is flawed there.
that makes no sense at all. if one flies solo one would learn to tank even more. there is no "other player" to run off to and heal. just yourself. you'd end up learning what you need to survive taking on bigger foes in doing so.
here you go again trying to speak for people other than yourself. i would not take as much cynicism if you were to represent yourself accordingly and say "i did not want it". as it is, even on the other thread you were a minority.
1. Whats your basis for this claim
2. Science ships have their uses still, no one ever said otherwise
3. If you?re a tank you know you?r going to get targeted
4. If I?m in an escort and I can sit and keep my bow facing the target, all the better to maximize my dps.
5. Umm I?m no Starfleet, I?m an Orion Privateer, I work with the KDF, but I?m a mercenary.
6. The escort is part of the team and dealing damage, where is he doing nothing
7. I?m a merc, the reward is the whole purpose
8. How do you know he/she can?t
9. Again, how do you know
Oh... Kay....
I think that's the last straw in this thread.
I'm out of here, have fun folks.
take care mael. and seriously, repulsor. even a low level one knocks a high yield plasma dead. also, watch the icon of the cube you have targetted. you can easily tell if they blew their high yield when the icon vanishes. just pop repulsor then and that takes care of any potential invisible high yield torp. it hasn't failed me yet, and i do hope it does not fail you as well.