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Threat control What it ACTUALLY is

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  • maelwy5maelwy5 Member Posts: 593 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    ryuuenjin wrote: »
    take care mael. and seriously, repulsor. even a low level one knocks a high yield plasma dead. also, watch the icon of the cube you have targetted. you can easily tell if they blew their high yield when the icon vanishes. just pop repulsor then and that takes care of any potential invisible high yield torp. it hasn't failed me yet, and i do hope it does not fail you as well.

    Oh I've no problem combatting them, just not with armor alone: my Nebula never leaves spacedock without two copies of Grav Well (or 1xGW and 1x Tyken's Rift) - handy 'keepaway' CC, groups multiple foes up for a Torpedo Spread, makes cubes die faster, and permanently proactively protects me from Heavy Torpedo Shots! :biggrin:

    *cough*

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant... :smile:
    [ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Sollvax, you obviously do not understand even basic grammar, let alone gameplay.

    And if we're going to insult each other, (the IQ comment), I will point out that I have destroyed about 30 ships today, and think it matches your IQ at least 2-to-1.

    How does it feel when you are the one being insulted? Bad? Then stop insulting others!

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    maelwy5 wrote: »
    Oh I've no problem combatting them, just not with armor alone: my Nebula never leaves spacedock without two copies of Grav Well (or 1xGW and 1x Tyken's Rift) - handy 'keepaway' CC, groups multiple foes up for a Torpedo Spread, makes cubes die faster, and permanently proactively protects me from Heavy Torpedo Shots! :biggrin:

    *cough*

    We now return you to your regularly scheduled rant... :smile:

    Yeah, I'm out of here too. No point in trying to convince an idiot that he's an idiot.

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • zektorilzektoril Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Worf commanded the defiant
    Sisko commanded the station

    Admiral kirk
    Admiral "nuke the innocent" janeway
    and several commodores in tos for a start

    you might want to go watch DS9 again. and Admiral Kirk did not command the Enterprise, Captain Spok commanded the Enterprise when Kirk was promoted. and a Commodore is NOT an admiral. as a matter of fact, Commodore do not even exist in STO.

    here i'll make it easy for you to look up, http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Defiant_%282375%29. USS Defiant
    # Captain Benjamin Sisko - Commanding Officer (CO)
    # Lieutenant Commander Worf - Executive Officer (XO)/Security Chief/Tactical Officer

    and about the Enterprise and Kirk, http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Enterprise_%28NCC-1701%29
    Following Kirk's promotion to rear admiral and posting as Chief of Starfleet Operations, his hand-picked successor, Captain Willard Decker oversaw the refit

    Once the V'Ger threat was averted, Captain Decker was listed as "missing in action" and the Enterprise remained under Admiral Kirk's command for an interim period. At some point, Kirk passed command on to Captain Spock.

    i guess if you want to use an interim command as your basis for admirals being in command of ships, you can
  • mwgacy1mwgacy1 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    so you regard human shields as honourable??

    If someone chooses to be a Human shield then there's nothing more honourable in my opinion. I'm time limited (I should really be working) but this is an example of a Human Shield that few would regard as dishonourable.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Stryker
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    dalolorn wrote: »
    Sollvax, you obviously do not understand even basic grammar, let alone gameplay.

    And if we're going to insult each other, (the IQ comment), I will point out that I have destroyed about 30 ships today, and think it matches your IQ at least 2-to-1.

    How does it feel when you are the one being insulted? Bad? Then stop insulting others!

    He has been insulting me for THREE DAYS
    And As i destroy several HUNDRED ships a week I think its only an insult if he thinks I destroyed less than 120 or so right??

    The Game play here has to be looked at in context and part of that is some people play as a MMO some as a RPG and some as a TAG

    The MMO unholy triad doesn't fit this game well
    The RPG does
    and as a TAG the game only works if you all know each other

    those who came here at his request to "troll me to death"
    learn this

    All I ever said was people need the information available and a CHOICE

    you don't like choice and freedom of information
    join the Cardassians
    Live long and Prosper
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    same as any other captain depends on the skill base

    "same as any other captain" =/= tactical captains abilities. again, please, do list the abilities tactical captains have privy to that allow them to mitigate damage.

    Same skills available as ANY other captain
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    nope you tank so you do not carry out your ACTUAL duties

    ah, so youre implying that i am as bad as you and can only perform one task at a time. thats cute. please do learn how to multi task.

    your first duty as a science ship is to Down the enemy defences on the primary target
    not to monkey for a bunch of escorts trimming the left overs
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    AND the abilities charged and read AND can see the ship that just got zeroed
    AND are not being commed by some jerk demanding you stop and tank for them

    i'll take "don't be an idiot by using all your defensive buffs right away" for $500 Alex.

    and you will go to the red area for being wrong
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    the escort usually just blows the optionals and quits actually
    Especially in mirror universe events
    not quite so bad in stf but many escorts leave if the optional fails because of their own incompetence

    you have a horrible record then considering that i've yet to see an escort leave on an stf on my end. and that includes mirror universe. hmm.. if escorts dont leave when we do things my way but they do when you do things your way, something must be wrong with you.

    or you are the one leaving maybe
    or perhaps you just don't see as many as i do because you are too busy being swell headed about tanking ??

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    does to a certain degree
    and have you ever TRIED getting rid of dilith??
    you can't discard it and selling it on the exchange just turns it into c points

    1)buy junk in the dilithium store (yknow where you buy ship gear for dilith)
    2)sell to replicator for ec
    3)give ec to someone
    4)?????
    5) NOT PROFIT
    what a waste of time

    I mostly turn it into bridge officers and hand them out to people who are just starting if I get too much

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    I destroyed more ships than you have Iq points this week alone

    only a little over 152 ships? step it up, i do that much in 2 days.

    over 300 actually this week (there are a LOT of me)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    The knight stands alone
    or rides with other knights

    knights do not "stand alone". grow up and stop believing in fairytale knights. knights and the title of knighthood has been a longstanding title bestowed on mounted warriors.
    [/QUOTE]


    historically knights fought other knights and mostly DID fight one on one
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Yes actually we do
    modulated shield pulses have been used as a weapon
    and I ment that the mace is not a footmans weapon

    oh? do tell, where are these modulated shield pulse weapons in STO? oh and by the way, the mace was a weapon that could and was used by anyone. the only difference between a cavalier's mace and a lowly footman's is that the cavalier's were longer (footman's maces were about two to three feet in length).

    A cavalier relates to a period several Centuries after the mace (the losing side in the civil war)
    and if you have not seen shield modulation and deflector modulation weapons in this game clearly you do not pay attention

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    but the kill credit isn't (accolades)
    escorts playing "swipe the kill" are common

    oh so, doing it to get accolades. now who is the glory hound?

    Some of us work for what we score
    and will BREAK off if someone else has a target locked
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    he doesn't
    the president of the USA has secret service men
    ESCORTS
    who die to protect him
    you notice he does not TANK for them

    they are not escorts. if one were to compare the president to a cruiser and the secret service to escorts, secret service men would be diminuitive fast people. but they arent. a good amount of them are just as big or even bigger than the POTUS. therefore, the more likely comparison is that the bodyguards are more akin to cruisers as far as "tanking" goes.

    No they are his "Armed Escort"


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    I can't be
    He might merely be making trouble
    BUT Id take the word of someone who used my actual name when disagreeing with me over you any day

    so personal bias clouds your common sense. good going there.


    And yours made you claim i had a terminal class 2 TRIBBLE
    which makes you a very nice person im sure
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    nope you lose a lot
    you tank which means you are part of a construct team
    you miss out on being any good because of it

    if i miss out on being any good then how come i, by being a team player and negating damage from being directed towards my teammates, always get praised for having done such a great job of neutralizing threats to the team? your logic is flawed there.

    I doubt your team actually values you very much
    they probably think of you as a mobile sand bag
    if they do well done on finding some real friends who suit your style

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    perhaps if you flew solo and learned not to tank you could one day be as good as a newbie

    that makes no sense at all. if one flies solo one would learn to tank even more. there is no "other player" to run off to and heal. just yourself. you'd end up learning what you need to survive taking on bigger foes in doing so.

    Taking on ANY foe in PVE is easier if there is no "team" involved
    Its hard to co-ordinate with people who refuse to communicate half the time

    CE would actually be easier if there was a solo option
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    stick with what you wish

    but remember when it gets a 30 level threat modifier slapped on it you wanted it not the rest of us

    here you go again trying to speak for people other than yourself. i would not take as much cynicism if you were to represent yourself accordingly and say "i did not want it". as it is, even on the other thread you were a minority.

    Actually im a majority as much as you are
    there seems to be you a couple of people trolling in a general way and some people agreeing we are both partly right

    capcush
    Career Officer
    Join Date: Jun 2012
    Posts: 9# 58
    Today, 06:03 AM
    Threat control has some bonus to your deference but its basically for those people who want to fly into a stf and go SHOOT ME!!! i personally love it when people are screaming mad when they get killed and don't realize that they had something in threat control. i would personally change the name of it to something that would go along with what is actually dose not something that could mean two thing
    .

    See this guy gets it
    zektoril
    Ensign
    Join Date: Jun 2012
    Posts: 9# 59
    Today, 06:04 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    1. Except of course thats incorrect


    2. your kind of thinking has weakened and nearly ERASED the science ships from teams
    they can't "dps" and they can't"heal" they are just to you wasted spaces


    3. which only works if you KNOW some idiot is going to zero you


    4. you are merely acting as a deployable turret at most


    5. Rewards
    Ah how very starfleet (not)
    greed and glory hounding
    how very very NOT starfleet

    6. The escort should get NOTHING if the cruiser does all the work


    7. there is a difference between "rewards" and "honour"
    the honour of the Victory belongs to those who fought with honour
    and letting someone else bleed for you is not so honourable is it


    A CRUISER
    8. and no you can't

    I have had a personal message from someone who says he has seen you in action and says (and I quote) "A Hide and seek merchant"



    9. if it were even remotely true which frankly its not
    you call people names of a scatalogical nature because you are not capable of being adult about it when people disagree
    you shame your ancestors

    1. Whats your basis for this claim
    2. Science ships have their uses still, no one ever said otherwise
    3. If you?re a tank you know you?r going to get targeted
    4. If I?m in an escort and I can sit and keep my bow facing the target, all the better to maximize my dps.
    5. Umm I?m no Starfleet, I?m an Orion Privateer, I work with the KDF, but I?m a mercenary.
    6. The escort is part of the team and dealing damage, where is he doing nothing
    7. I?m a merc, the reward is the whole purpose
    8. How do you know he/she can?t
    9. Again, how do you know

    1 experience and opinion (same as the other guy )
    2 but are being forced to "tank or get out"
    3 my point exactly
    4 you need to start moving it will vastly increase your effectiveness AND mean the cruisers will see you as an asset not a pain in the stern
    5 Then please feel free to grab as many need or greeds as you wish infact you can have my share of lockboxes if you like
    6 the Cruiser is doing the job if the escort left entirely the cruiser would STILL destroy the target given time
    7 if you are not starfleet you are entirely free to be as greedy as you like infact I encourage it
    8 someone told me he hides a lot (may or may not be true but as the other guy has not said im dying of an TRIBBLE I tend to regard him as more credible)
    9 because no ones ancestors could be proud of someone calling people those names
    no one
    Live long and Prosper
  • zektorilzektoril Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sollvax wrote: »

    1 experience and opinion (same as the other guy )
    2 but are being forced to "tank or get out"
    3 my point exactly
    4 you need to start moving it will vastly increase your effectiveness AND mean the cruisers will see you as an asset not a pain in the stern
    5 Then please feel free to grab as many need or greeds as you wish infact you can have my share of lockboxes if you like
    6 the Cruiser is doing the job if the escort left entirely the cruiser would STILL destroy the target given time
    7 if you are not starfleet you are entirely free to be as greedy as you like infact I encourage it
    8 someone told me he hides a lot (may or may not be true but as the other guy has not said im dying of an TRIBBLE I tend to regard him as more credible)
    9 because no ones ancestors could be proud of someone calling people those names
    no one

    1. You can?t honestly claim someone is wrong about stating that engineers make the better space tank and science make the better science tank, its game mechanics. They have the mitigation and healing abilities to do those jobs, tactical does not
    2. What science ships are being forced to tank? I for 1 have never seen ANYONE get forced to be a tank, let alone a ship with weaker hull then a cruiser.
    3. I don?t think you understood my comment, either that or you didn?t understand your own
    4. If I?m not being targeted, and I have 6 forward firing weapons, aimed at the bad guy, why do I need to move? And focusing all my dps on the bad guy, why would a cruiser think I?m a pain in the stern?
    5. I do enjoy grabbing my loot, and I also enjoy the tokens I get that allowed me to get my omega and HG gear. No I don?t want your lottery boxes, and I assume you have no assimilated, no anti borg, no omega, and no maco gear since Starfleet did not issue those to you, but rather you have to be rewarded tokens to purchase them?
    6. No one said the escort left, the escort sits and does dps while the cruise absorbs the damage, allowing the escort to not have to worry about getting blown up
    7. ..
    8. Hear say
    9. I don?t know if that is true or not. But there are some pretty nasty people in history, and they may be ashamed of them, then again they may not.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    1. You can?t honestly claim someone is wrong about stating that engineers make the better space tank and science make the better science tank, its game mechanics. They have the mitigation and healing abilities to do those jobs, tactical does not

    I can say that an Engineer is not at his most valuable as a tank nor is a science officer
    Tacs CAN and Do tank
    2. What science ships are being forced to tank? I for 1 have never seen ANYONE get forced to be a tank, let alone a ship with weaker hull then a cruiser.

    then you have been fortunate
    3. I don?t think you understood my comment, either that or you didn?t understand your own

    Im NOT a tank
    if i had my way no one would be
    But we get sick of being blown up by our own side
    4. If I?m not being targeted, and I have 6 forward firing weapons, aimed at the bad guy, why do I need to move? And focusing all my dps on the bad guy, why would a cruiser think I?m a pain in the stern?

    Because while You are not being targeted some other poor devil is getting creamed AND trying to avoid your arc so you don't get torp spreaded into oblivion in some cases
    you are forcing the cruiser to regard you as a stationary helpless target to be protected AND avoided
    (example if I approach the stadi from the same direction as you YOU get pasted by the torp spread when I make my own damage run )

    5. I do enjoy grabbing my loot, and I also enjoy the tokens I get that allowed me to get my omega and HG gear. No I don?t want your lottery boxes, and I assume you have no assimilated, no anti borg, no omega, and no maco gear since Starfleet did not issue those to you, but rather you have to be rewarded tokens to purchase them?

    anything MADE by the borg is threat and does not deserve to exist in our ships
    requistions of ANTI borg weapons are of value in the genocide of this menace so i do have some weapons designed specifically to kill borg (as beating them to death with a rifle butt takes too long)
    but those items ARE standard issue
    6. No one said the escort left, the escort sits and does dps while the cruise absorbs the damage, allowing the escort to not have to worry about getting blown up

    Which means the Cruiser (which has civilians aboard as opposed to the 50 military personel on the Escort) gets napalmed (ok plasma)

    7. ..
    8. Hear say
    Girls Aloud
    9. I don?t know if that is true or not. But there are some pretty nasty people in history, and they may be ashamed of them, then again they may not.

    Genghis Khan once had one of his own Generals disemboweled for disrespecting an old man in council

    Hitler loved his pet dog

    And there is no one so evil they do not have some redeeming features

    but saying someone has a class 2 terminal disease because they disagree with you??
    Thats NASTY
    Live long and Prosper
  • redrickyredricky Member Posts: 1,004 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Sollvax, you clearly have no problem issuing warnings about your advice, based on the first post. You've got warnings that people should read for themselves and that you have been called a troll in the past.

    I'd say the more accurate honest warning would be that you build your ships for RP. There's no shame or problem with that. Refusal to use borg tech is fine if that's what you want to do. But pretending that it's efficient or effective to tank with a Tac not running at least a 2 pc borg for the hull heals is misleading. Just change your warning to be "RP is most important to me, so if you're the same here's what you should do with threat control."
    _______________
    CommanderDonatra@Capt.Sisko: ahhh is it supposed to do that?
    Norvo Tigan@dontdrunkimshoot: hell ya, maybe
  • zektorilzektoril Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    I can say that an Engineer is not at his most valuable as a tank nor is a science officer. Tacs CAN and Do tank
    so where is an engineer at his most valuable? wasting time ensuring he remains in range of the guy getting shot to repair him when needed? it is a lot more useful if the engineer is the 1 getting shot so he can repair himself, no need to worry about drifting out of range. and i never said tactical can't tank, they are just not suited for it. lack of mitigation and self healing.
    sollvax wrote: »
    Im NOT a tank
    if i had my way no one would be
    But we get sick of being blown up by our own side
    i really don't get the blown up by our own side part, its not hard to make sure you pilot away from the ship about to go critical, and I for one am glad you don't have your way because I rather enjoy tanking, and have never had an instance where I was too close to a ship going critical when I was tanking.


    sollvax wrote: »
    Because while You are not being targeted some other poor devil is getting creamed AND trying to avoid your arc so you don't get torp spreaded into oblivion in some cases
    you are forcing the cruiser to regard you as a stationary helpless target to be protected AND avoided
    (example if I approach the stadi from the same direction as you YOU get pasted by the torp spread when I make my own damage run )

    first, I'm actually the tank, not the stationary escort, and as the tank, I'm not getting creamed, i have multiple options for damage mitigation, which is why I can and do tank. and I don't worry about someone else getting into the firing arc for an aoe, if they don't move, its their choice, if they die, its their fault.

    if I was the escort sitting stationary, which I have been before, I'm smart enough to move when I need to to avoid AOE damage. and other than that 1 short moment, where evasive maneuvers gets me repositioned on the far side and my bow back on target, I don't move.

    sollvax wrote: »
    Which means the Cruiser (which has civilians aboard as opposed to the 50 military personel on the Escort) gets napalmed (ok plasma)

    umm civilians? last time I checked I had no bar indicating there were civilians on board a cruiser, but i wish I did, more bodies to sell to the slavers. but ok yes the enterprise D did have civilians on board, she was a galaxy class cruiser, just like the Odyssey, and the Odyssey, prior to knowingly going into harms way, off loaded all non essential personnel at DS9, and then subsequently all hands were lost in combat with the Dominion. So I feel it is reasonable to assume that, Starfleet is smart enough to remove all non combat personnel from their ships during times of war, and since in STO Starfleet is at war, it is reasonable to assume there are no civilians on any federation cruiser, and well, if I remember correctly, there are no civilians on KDF war ships.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    so where is an engineer at his most valuable? wasting time ensuring he remains in range of the guy getting shot to repair him when needed? it is a lot more useful if the engineer is the 1 getting shot so he can repair himself, no need to worry about drifting out of range. and i never said tactical can't tank, they are just not suited for it. lack of mitigation and self healing.

    depends on the mission

    for example in Cure the engineer could be flying guard on the kang (which he is best suited to)
    Or he could be using his superior defensive skills flying cover on the carriers and repairing the damaged ships
    Or (if he is a bit of a maniac) he could solo a set and free up a couple of other ships


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Im NOT a tank
    if i had my way no one would be
    But we get sick of being blown up by our own side

    i really don't get the blown up by our own side part, its not hard to make sure you pilot away from the ship about to go critical, and I for one am glad you don't have your way because I rather enjoy tanking, and have never had an instance where I was too close to a ship going critical when I was tanking.

    its called zeroing a form of griefing
    you wait till the ship is close to the target
    watch for 25% hull then blast away
    the destruction totals the ship on your own side AND you steal his kill credit


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Because while You are not being targeted some other poor devil is getting creamed AND trying to avoid your arc so you don't get torp spreaded into oblivion in some cases
    you are forcing the cruiser to regard you as a stationary helpless target to be protected AND avoided
    (example if I approach the stadi from the same direction as you YOU get pasted by the torp spread when I make my own damage run )

    first, I'm actually the tank, not the stationary escort, and as the tank, I'm not getting creamed, i have multiple options for damage mitigation, which is why I can and do tank. and I don't worry about someone else getting into the firing arc for an aoe, if they don't move, its their choice, if they die, its their fault.

    Tank vrs Cruiser you see
    Cruiser is trying to save starfleet lives

    if I was the escort sitting stationary, which I have been before, I'm smart enough to move when I need to to avoid AOE damage. and other than that 1 short moment, where evasive maneuvers gets me repositioned on the far side and my bow back on target, I don't move.

    I find those ships particularly uninspiring
    where is the JOY in sitting still mashing the fire keys?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Which means the Cruiser (which has civilians aboard as opposed to the 50 military personel on the Escort) gets napalmed (ok plasma)

    umm civilians? last time I checked I had no bar indicating there were civilians on board a cruiser, but i wish I did, more bodies to sell to the slavers. but ok yes the enterprise D did have civilians on board, she was a galaxy class cruiser, just like the Odyssey, and the Odyssey, prior to knowingly going into harms way, off loaded all non essential personnel at DS9, and then subsequently all hands were lost in combat with the Dominion. So I feel it is reasonable to assume that, Starfleet is smart enough to remove all non combat personnel from their ships during times of war, and since in STO Starfleet is at war, it is reasonable to assume there are no civilians on any federation cruiser, and well, if I remember correctly, there are no civilians on KDF war ships.

    Galaxy class carry civilians (and so do you check your doff lists)
    Live long and Prosper
  • oridjerraaoridjerraa Member Posts: 313 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    baudl wrote: »
    srsly, sollvax...you have no idea of how to play this game...stop giving bad advice on the forum.

    A) a tactical captain is a bad choice for a tank...engineer is the obvious choice...if you fail to see that at the first look, plz delete this game. the fact that you even think that tactical captains are the tank class in this game leaves me speechless.

    B) threat control is a skill that boosts the threat you generate when you fire on a target. If you don't fire on a target it does nothing. (only increases your resistance a little)

    C) threat control is a gameplay mechanic for group play only, and works only for NPC's. People who want to play a cruiser as a tank, need it in order to keep aggro against the more powerfull DPS of escorts. If you don't have threat control, you will lose aggro to the player with the biggest dmg output.


    nobody forces you or anybody else to play a tank cruiser, problem is...cruisers in support roles are best for PVP...PVE is just tank and spank, to do that you need a tank or somebody who will take the beating. Support in PVE is a wasted teamslot.
    Further, to tank doesn't mean to die...you can survive a tactical cube/gate easily with the right BOFF powers

    i know you ignore it, i post it anyway for other new players, to give them an actual view on how it is done in this game, if you want to do STF's successfull and in record time.

    I really do believe group content should require more of a support/healing role. As an Engineer/cruiser player I have no problems having fun by keeping the escorts topped off and healthy. Right now tho, they really don't need a designated healer.
  • zektorilzektoril Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    depends on the mission

    for example in Cure the engineer could be flying guard on the kang (which he is best suited to)
    Or he could be using his superior defensive skills flying cover on the carriers and repairing the damaged ships
    Or (if he is a bit of a maniac) he could solo a set and free up a couple of other ships

    or, since the best way to protect the Kang is to prevent her from taking damage, not repairing it. therefore an escort with its superior maneuverability and fire power is best suited to this role, since if they can't get into firing range, they can't hurt her.

    using superior defensive skills flying cover... sounds like tanking to me.


    sollvax wrote: »
    its called zeroing a form of griefing
    you wait till the ship is close to the target
    watch for 25% hull then blast away
    the destruction totals the ship on your own side AND you steal his kill credit

    I'm going to guess that if people are purposefully doing this, it must be they don't like you. because that would take too much effort to actually set up and watch a target and get it positioned for such an attack.

    as for the "kill credit" if you want guaranteed kills, command an escort, or don't partake in team activities, only do solo content.


    sollvax wrote: »
    Tank vrs Cruiser you see
    made no sense
    sollvax wrote: »
    Cruiser is trying to save starfleet lives
    all military ships are doing their part to save lives, each has its own design function, for the end goal of protecting their society from being harmed by the aggressors.


    sollvax wrote: »
    I find those ships particularly uninspiring
    where is the JOY in sitting still mashing the fire keys?
    the way you find it is irrelevant, an escort that can keep her nose on target 100% of the time is doing more damage then an escort that can't

    where is the joy in circling your target mashing the fire key? and who mashes the fire key? your weapons can be set to auto fire leaving your fingers free to hit your boff skills.


    sollvax wrote: »
    Galaxy class carry civilians (and so do you check your doff lists)
    you completely ignored the example I gave from the TV series where a Galaxy class offloaded all civilians before going into combat, no civilians on board + ship blew up = no civilians died. and since I go into combat knowingly, I would not have civilians on board, in fact, I DO NOT have civilians on board, check my DOff list, when I get a civilian, I have an option to sell them to slavers, and I make a nice profit off it. and I don't know for certain, but I believe the KDF DOff roster has less civilians on it then the Fed roster. because if I remember correctly, the KDF does not carry civilians on board it's ships.
  • maelwy5maelwy5 Member Posts: 593 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    This trainwreck of a thread is STILL going?? :eek:

    Someone, please:

    KILL IT WITH FIRE.
    [ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
  • ryuuenjinryuuenjin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    maelwy5 wrote: »
    This trainwreck of a thread is STILL going?? :eek:

    Someone, please:

    KILL IT WITH FIRE.

    WITH FIRE YOU SAY??
  • beezle23beezle23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    maelwy5 wrote: »
    This trainwreck of a thread is STILL going?? :eek:

    Someone, please:

    KILL IT WITH FIRE.

    Can't -- I'm flying a cruiser, therefore it's not my job.
    __________________________________________________
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
  • ryuuenjinryuuenjin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    beezle23 wrote: »
    Can't -- I'm flying a cruiser, therefore it's not my job.

    what are you talking about? you're flying a cruiser. its totally your job. if you were flying an escort i'd understand. 'cause then you'd have to tank it instead.
  • maelwy5maelwy5 Member Posts: 593 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    beezle23 wrote: »
    maelwy5 wrote: »
    This trainwreck of a thread is STILL going?? :eek:

    Someone, please:

    KILL IT WITH FIRE.

    Can't -- I'm flying a cruiser, therefore it's not my job.

    Destroy the Web
    It's the only way to be sure.

    (And everyone can be an Escort...) :wink:
    [ <<<--- @Maelwys --->>> ]
  • beezle23beezle23 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    ryuuenjin wrote: »
    what are you talking about? you're flying a cruiser. its totally your job. if you were flying an escort i'd understand. 'cause then you'd have to tank it instead.

    I don't know what I'm supposed to do anymore.

    I guess I'll just have to tank with my shuttle. I'm sure it's much more suited to the task -- it has a better turn rate than an Escort.
    __________________________________________________
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "I weary of the chase. Wait for me. I shall be merciful and quick."
  • zektorilzektoril Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Sorry guys I'll stop.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    or, since the best way to protect the Kang is to prevent her from taking damage, not repairing it. therefore an escort with its superior maneuverability and fire power is best suited to this role, since if they can't get into firing range, they can't hurt her.

    using superior defensive skills flying cover... sounds like tanking to me.

    no

    actually the last time i saw an escort fly guard it was detonated into penalty within a matter of minutes
    AND the Kang was battered worse than usual

    flying Guard is the opposite of tanking (if you do it right you don't take ANY major damage)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    its called zeroing a form of griefing
    you wait till the ship is close to the target
    watch for 25% hull then blast away
    the destruction totals the ship on your own side AND you steal his kill credit

    I'm going to guess that if people are purposefully doing this, it must be they don't like you. because that would take too much effort to actually set up and watch a target and get it positioned for such an attack.

    they do it to everyone
    its standard ops proceedure for some people


    as for the "kill credit" if you want guaranteed kills, command an escort, or don't partake in team activities, only do solo content.

    as an escort (and I have tried escorts over the last couple of weeks)
    the easy way to get a kill
    is to be as far away from other escorts as possible and move hard and fast in high arc attacks with Aoe weapons and decent shields
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Tank vrs Cruiser you see

    made no sense


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Cruiser is trying to save starfleet lives

    all military ships are doing their part to save lives, each has its own design function, for the end goal of protecting their society from being harmed by the aggressors.

    Escorts ARE aggressors
    An Escort is like a nuclear armed subsurface ship
    its only there to attack


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    I find those ships particularly uninspiring
    where is the JOY in sitting still mashing the fire keys?

    the way you find it is irrelevant, an escort that can keep her nose on target 100% of the time is doing more damage then an escort that can't

    and less still than if it was beam armed and moving

    where is the joy in circling your target mashing the fire key? and who mashes the fire key? your weapons can be set to auto fire leaving your fingers free to hit your boff skills.

    Escort captains mash keys
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Galaxy class carry civilians (and so do you check your doff lists)

    you completely ignored the example I gave from the TV series where a Galaxy class offloaded all civilians before going into combat, no civilians on board + ship blew up = no civilians died. and since I go into combat knowingly, I would not have civilians on board, in fact, I DO NOT have civilians on board, check my DOff list, when I get a civilian, I have an option to sell them to slavers, and I make a nice profit off it. and I don't know for certain, but I believe the KDF DOff roster has less civilians on it then the Fed roster. because if I remember correctly, the KDF does not carry civilians on board it's ships.

    all your crew are civilians actually (pirates not being in the military)
    Live long and Prosper
  • zektorilzektoril Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sorry guys

    sollvax wrote: »
    flying Guard is the opposite of tanking (if you do it right you don't take ANY major damage)
    apparently your ideal of tanking is different then mine, or your ideal of providing defensive cover is different.


    sollvax wrote: »
    they do it to everyone
    its standard ops proceedure for some people
    I don't know who your grouping with, but standard op for me and from what I've seen in STFs from other players is, kill the enemies, prioritized on highest threat or easiest kill to reduce some threat. and they don't do it to everyone as it has never been done to me.



    sollvax wrote: »
    as an escort (and I have tried escorts over the last couple of weeks)
    the easy way to get a kill
    is to be as far away from other escorts as possible and move hard and fast in high arc attacks with Aoe weapons and decent shields
    actually the easiest way to get a kill as an escort, is with dual heavy cannons, nose at the target, and hit CRF and HYT and focus on 1 shield facing. aoe is for hitting multiple targets to weaken them. possibly getting a kill out of it, but ultimately making them easier to kill as single targets when you work through them.


    sollvax wrote: »
    and less still than if it was beam armed and moving
    apparently you know nothing of how the game mechanics work, wich has already been shown several times. but here is a little info on energy weapons for you. the higher your weapon energy, the more damage they do, each weapon reduces your weapon energy by a certain amount when firing more than 1 energy weapon. beam arrays are the 2nd weakest weapon. an escort has up to 7 weapon slots, so you can load out 7 beam arrays, on a broad side with 7 beam arrays with your weapon energy at 125, <no other buffs taken into account> you are looking at a potential 1601dps on a broad side. with 3 DHC <the hardest hitting weapon> 1 photon torpedo <the highest dps torp> and 3 turrets, on a forward arc you get 7 weapons again, your looking at a potential 1965 dps. so the escort sitting still nose to the target is putting out almost 400 more dps then you while you fly in a circle. which is why escorts are the dps ship, and cruisers, wich have higher hull and deal less dps, are better suited to be the tanking ship.


    sollvax wrote: »
    Escort captains mash keys
    just because your a button masher when you command an escort doesn't mean everyone does, everything has a cool down, even your energy weapons have a 3sec cooldown, whats the point of mashing the button?

    sollvax wrote: »
    all your crew are civilians actually (pirates not being in the military)
    i think you need to reexamine your understanding of civilians and combatants, else by your reasoning, the terrorists and rebels in africa and the middle east are just civilians and so the police should deal with them, not the military. or you can learn something today, and that being a mercenary aka a soldier of fortune, is not considered a civilian, but instead is regarded as a combatant.
  • mwgacy1mwgacy1 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    no

    actually the last time i saw an escort fly guard it was detonated into penalty within a matter of minutes
    AND the Kang was battered worse than usual

    flying Guard is the opposite of tanking (if you do it right you don't take ANY major damage)

    Then that guy using an Escort sucked hard. When I run any of my characters in Escorts the Raptors never get within firing range, with my Tac they barely even leave the spawn point.
    they do it to everyone
    its standard ops proceedure for some people

    I've never seen this but in this case I can understand why they might.
    as an escort (and I have tried escorts over the last couple of weeks)
    the easy way to get a kill
    is to be as far away from other escorts as possible and move hard and fast in high arc attacks with Aoe weapons and decent shields

    As an Escort the easiest way to get a kill in PvE is to use your damage buffs and keep your DHC's on target for as long as possible. Moving fast helps defence but if it means overruning and wasting half of my CRF3 I'll slow down to make sure I get as much damage in as possible before moving to the next target (assuming that which I was just shooting at is currently exploding).
    Escorts ARE aggressors
    An Escort is like a nuclear armed subsurface ship
    its only there to attack

    Escorts have an aggressive role but aren't necessarily aggressors.
    and less still than if it was beam armed and moving

    Beams are nice if you can't maneuver DHCs onto target but an Escort with DHCs will be able to actually kill a target rather than tickling everything within a 10km sphere. The DPS of a FaW Escort may well be higher than a CRF/CSV DHC Escort but only one will reliably kill anything.
    Escort captains mash keys

    I use only seven keys for my Escorts; One for an all out burst attack and others for primary attack buffs, secondary attack buffs, shield resists, shield heals, hull heals and another for any hull resists I might have.

    It's also worth remembering that as an Escort I have the exact same number of abilities available to me as a Cruiser does so there's no more button mashing than there is with a Cruiser.
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    apparently your ideal of tanking is different then mine, or your ideal of providing defensive cover is different.

    Tanking
    Suicidal activity to attract fire and attempt to soak it

    Flying cover
    Destroying incoming vessels (or immobilising them) one at a time while providing close protection (shield and hull repair included) to principle

    I don't know who your grouping with, but standard op for me and from what I've seen in STFs from other players is, kill the enemies, prioritized on highest threat or easiest kill to reduce some threat. and they don't do it to everyone as it has never been done to me.


    Sometimes we are a man or two short and we get pug add ons
    they USUALLY have no regard for others survival

    and of course Mirror is always pug

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    as an escort (and I have tried escorts over the last couple of weeks)
    the easy way to get a kill
    is to be as far away from other escorts as possible and move hard and fast in high arc attacks with Aoe weapons and decent shields

    actually the easiest way to get a kill as an escort, is with dual heavy cannons, nose at the target, and hit CRF and HYT and focus on 1 shield facing. aoe is for hitting multiple targets to weaken them. possibly getting a kill out of it, but ultimately making them easier to kill as single targets when you work through them.

    not if there are two other escorts running behind you
    you down the shields they take the kills
    YOU get the flak


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    and less still than if it was beam armed and moving

    apparently you know nothing of how the game mechanics work, wich has already been shown several times. but here is a little info on energy weapons for you. the higher your weapon energy, the more damage they do, each weapon reduces your weapon energy by a certain amount when firing more than 1 energy weapon. beam arrays are the 2nd weakest weapon. an escort has up to 7 weapon slots, so you can load out 7 beam arrays, on a broad side with 7 beam arrays with your weapon energy at 125, <no other buffs taken into account> you are looking at a potential 1601dps on a broad side. with 3 DHC <the hardest hitting weapon> 1 photon torpedo <the highest dps torp> and 3 turrets, on a forward arc you get 7 weapons again, your looking at a potential 1965 dps. so the escort sitting still nose to the target is putting out almost 400 more dps then you while you fly in a circle. which is why escorts are the dps ship, and cruisers, wich have higher hull and deal less dps, are better suited to be the tanking ship.

    but 15 seconds (average time guns on target with cannons) vrs 1 full minute
    the beams outdo the cannons Every time
    oh and i don't fly in a circle
    I mostly fly in an "aquire , line up , obliterate , repeat" pattern



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Escort captains mash keys
    just because your a button masher when you command an escort doesn't mean everyone does, everything has a cool down, even your energy weapons have a 3sec cooldown, whats the point of mashing the button?

    you tell me I just watch them do it

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    all your crew are civilians actually (pirates not being in the military)

    i think you need to reexamine your understanding of civilians and combatants, else by your reasoning, the terrorists and rebels in africa and the middle east are just civilians and so the police should deal with them, not the military. or you can learn something today, and that being a mercenary aka a soldier of fortune, is not considered a civilian, but instead is regarded as a combatant.

    Mercenary is considered an AUTOMATIC warcrime actually
    when not if they are caught they usually hang

    But Terrorists are criminals (not combatants) Rebels are usually "militia"
    its all in the regs and conventions



    mwgacy1
    Career Officer
    Join Date: Jun 2012
    Posts: 8# 85
    Today, 05:51 AM
    Quote:
    no
    actually the last time i saw an escort fly guard it was detonated into penalty within a matter of minutes
    AND the Kang was battered worse than usual

    flying Guard is the opposite of tanking (if you do it right you don't take ANY major damage)

    Then that guy using an Escort sucked hard. When I run any of my characters in Escorts the Raptors never get within firing range, with my Tac they barely even leave the spawn point.

    Yes he wasn't great
    He seemed to believe that the ship would compensate for his own failings
    Quote:
    they do it to everyone
    its standard ops proceedure for some people

    I've never seen this but in this case I can understand why they might.

    because they are mashing and mauling
    basically they aren't very good

    Quote:
    as an escort (and I have tried escorts over the last couple of weeks)
    the easy way to get a kill
    is to be as far away from other escorts as possible and move hard and fast in high arc attacks with Aoe weapons and decent shields

    As an Escort the easiest way to get a kill in PvE is to use your damage buffs and keep your DHC's on target for as long as possible. Moving fast helps defence but if it means overruning and wasting half of my CRF3 I'll slow down to make sure I get as much damage in as possible before moving to the next target (assuming that which I was just shooting at is currently exploding).
    i tend to rely on the torps to finish a target after the guns strip the shields

    Quote:
    Escorts ARE aggressors
    An Escort is like a nuclear armed subsurface ship
    its only there to attack

    Escorts have an aggressive role but aren't necessarily aggressors.

    There is no peaceful role for them
    moving them into a border area is basically an act of war

    Quote:
    and less still than if it was beam armed and moving

    Beams are nice if you can't maneuver DHCs onto target but an Escort with DHCs will be able to actually kill a target rather than tickling everything within a 10km sphere. The DPS of a FaW Escort may well be higher than a CRF/CSV DHC Escort but only one will reliably kill anything.

    I have beams at the rear
    (always at least one)
    Quote:
    Escort captains mash keys

    I use only seven keys for my Escorts; One for an all out burst attack and others for primary attack buffs, secondary attack buffs, shield resists, shield heals, hull heals and another for any hull resists I might have.

    It's also worth remembering that as an Escort I have the exact same number of abilities available to me as a Cruiser does so there's no more button mashing than there is with a Cruiser.

    My Cruiser relys almost entirely on mouse clicks
    the only buttons i press regularly are the 123 ones used to control forward , aft and torp weapons#
    Live long and Prosper
  • mwgacy1mwgacy1 Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Yes he wasn't great
    He seemed to believe that the ship would compensate for his own failings
    because they are mashing and mauling
    basically they aren't very good

    There are many like this. However that says more about their own personal skill level than the usefulness of the ship class which they're currently playing.
    There is no peaceful role for them
    moving them into a border area is basically an act of war

    There's no peaceful role for any ship in STO, much of STO is more reminiscent of this than TNG.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S06nIz4scvI
  • sollvaxsollvax Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    Wouldn't it be nice to establish peaceful first contact

    Host a conference

    Study a collapsing star

    Transport the Vulcan ambassador and his party to a meeting

    Deal with a disease outbreak

    maybe deliver some medicines

    WITHOUT shooting anyone??
    Live long and Prosper
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    As for button mashing, I never will understand my younger brother... he SPAMS "Fire All Weapons" with his mouse, but utterly IGNORES all the other buttons, except maybe his MV separations and the OCCASIONAL boff ability.

    Infinite possibilities have implications that could not be completely understood if you turned this entire universe into a giant supercomputer.p3OEBPD6HU3QI.jpg
  • ryuuenjinryuuenjin Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    dalolorn wrote: »
    As for button mashing, I never will understand my younger brother... he SPAMS "Fire All Weapons" with his mouse, but utterly IGNORES all the other buttons, except maybe his MV separations and the OCCASIONAL boff ability.

    at the very least YOU actually do see them. its silly that some people claim that others are just mashing keys and saying "i can see them do it" as if they actually can visually see the other person when in fact they do not.

    and to whoever said it, tanking is not "an attempt" to soak damage. it flat out IS soaking damage. its been that way years before in other mmos and the same holds true in this mmo.
  • zektorilzektoril Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2012
    sollvax wrote: »
    Tanking
    Suicidal activity to attract fire and attempt to soak it
    honorable activity best undertaken by one with thicker defenses to obtain the enemies attention to keep focus off the weaker allies.

    sollvax wrote: »
    Flying cover
    Destroying incoming vessels (or immobilising them) one at a time while providing close protection (shield and hull repair included) to principle
    applying suppressive techniques to draw attention of the enemy or to distract the enemy to keep them from hurting allies.

    healing: providing shield and hull repairs to allies when needed.

    sollvax wrote: »
    not if there are two other escorts running behind you
    you down the shields they take the kills
    YOU get the flak
    again fleet actions and STF are team effort, you want to ensure kills, go solo play. otherwise, work with your team. they probably follow you into a strike because if you wound it and they kill it, it is no longer a threat to the team. its call, team work.


    sollvax wrote: »
    but 15 seconds (average time guns on target with cannons) vrs 1 full minute
    the beams outdo the cannons Every time
    oh and i don't fly in a circle
    I mostly fly in an "aquire , line up , obliterate , repeat" pattern
    engines cut, not moving, sitting as a turret as you say, how is the target only in firing arc for 15sec?
    and if you are running beams for and aft, your hurting yourself by not keeping all of them in arc to fire. therefore, your dps is even lower. beam boats do not now nor will never out dps escorts with cannons, especially DHCs

    sollvax wrote: »
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sollvax
    Escort captains mash keys
    you tell me I just watch them do it
    if your sitting in a room with someone mashing keys, educate them. if you arent in the room with someone, don't assume they are button mashing.


    sollvax wrote: »
    Mercenary is considered an AUTOMATIC warcrime actually
    when not if they are caught they usually hang

    But Terrorists are criminals (not combatants) Rebels are usually "militia"
    its all in the regs and conventions
    in what country or under what regulation is being a merc a warcrime? there are several mercs working in the middle east right now, openly, supporting the local governments or corporate interests.

    if terrorists are criminals, why are they not dealt with by police instead of a military?
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