This is the second time I noticed the he/she is the forum thread you men just can't take the fact the the picture you see could possibly be a woman of some substance having both beauty and brians. Why does intelligence in beauty bring out your base pigness? Just read and answer to me thats all I ask. Wondering if I am male or female is moot.
You're reading too much into it.
Far too much given your extensive response.
In cases like the alias I chose for myself people can use "he" simply because anything else would sound odd.
Who or what is behind it is pretty moot.
In case of Katic for example several people already know the gender behind the alias and if that is not the case she'll correct someone when required.
In your case the avatar might prompt people to assume it migh represent the actual person behind it.
In addition your alias can easily be applied to either gender without problem.
So it's just about being polite and properly using the needed pronoun.
I find it hightly disturbing that you would assume there is a misogynist attitude behind the wish to just be polite.
One more thing if you want the Klingons to have more content, refresh the Khitomer accords, stop the house vs house blood letting, remove the title "Empire" from your name, and love each other. Then you will see a ever expanding Klingon race.
Well, again, thats in my opinion EXACTLY what should happen... and I like playing KDF much more then Fed.
This is the second time I noticed the he/she is the forum thread you men just can't take the fact the the picture you see could possibly be a woman of some substance having both beauty and brians. Why does intelligence in beauty bring out your base pigness? Just read and answer to me thats all I ask. Wondering if I am male or female is moot.
Sorry... there are so many male players with female names/avatars arround you can never be sure... not meant to be offensive in any way.
One more thing if you want the Klingons to have more content, refresh the Khitomer accords, stop the house vs house blood letting, remove the title "Empire" from your name, and love each other. Then you will see a ever expanding Klingon race.
That made no sense whatsoever.
As was said, there are Klingon-based games, as well as several Klingon-centered episodes, as well as books by talented writers (DiCanido's Gorkan series, for one example) which demonstrate that making Klingon-based stories is not anything new, nor impossible.
As for your implication that the Klingons as a culture need to change, I guess you need to change their psychology and physiology as well? Yeah, people know not all Klinks are warriors, but MOST OF THEM are aggressive first, or want to fight and participate in battle. It is the opposite of what your picture-perfect Federation is, with only a few Feds seeking power and glory, but most being passive. Lemme demonstrate:
Feds = Majority: Passive
Klingons = Majority: Aggressive
FYI - the countering to your stance has ZERO to do with your avatar and EVERYTHING to do with your stance. You think you're the first person to lob this kinda thread? Lol, ya right...
Still there were much more Federation based games, much more Federation based book series ect.
Nobody is questioning if it is POSSIBLE to add some Klingon missions, one of the issues is just: The role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe all over is not really big enough for equal content.
So, right: As long as they ARE an indipendent faction like now they SHOULD have equal content.
But to keep them as a seperate faction is the problem in the first place. Klingons were Federation allied for the major part of "Star Trek", and they were more intresting as such.
Also, Kithomer was the TOS-crews great legacy and shouldnt be thrown away.
And there are SO MANY intresting things that could be done with the Klingons as a subfaction (nobody is saying that they shouldnt keep a few unique missions by the way...)
But the benefit of an entirely seperate faction is imo exactly ZERO.
Also: Both factions have to little content. And what a lot of KDFlers dont get: FED will ALWAYS have the priority. So without particially joining the factions there will be no "real" klingon content.
Its the only reasonable aproach.
Originally Posted by Triangulum_Phoenix
This is the second time I noticed the he/she is the forum thread you men just can't take the fact the the picture you see could possibly be a woman of some substance having both beauty and brians. Why does intelligence in beauty bring out your base pigness? Just read and answer to me thats all I ask. Wondering if I am male or female is moot.
stop with the blatant sexism.
One more thing if you want the Klingons to have more content, refresh the Khitomer accords, stop the house vs house blood letting, remove the title "Empire" from your name, and love each other. Then you will see a ever expanding Klingon race.
the entire storyline is dependent on the war, half the fed missions are war related. if you suddenly ended the war, a considerable amount of the game would no longer make sense.
I have proven them all wrong.
you haven't proven anyone wrong
If you were a real girl you would research my argument and agree with me. I don't think you are. Agreeing with the men dosen't make you a real woman its makes you typical not above average as I am.
"Canon" doesn't force them to do anything. They have the license to CREATE as much Klingon content as is needed, with CBS having a veto in case they try to introduce pink ponies as traditional mounts for the Klingon targ hunt.
Well, thanks a lot. You know that by saying this the developers will now never create the traditional pink ponies for targ hunts to buy in the C-Store. And I was so looking foward to buying them for all my Klingons. At best now we will get green horse-like lizards.
I think the OP was trying to say that Klingons were less developed in the show than Humans were. But so was every non-human. Then it looked more like a rant, so I can't be quite sure.
In either case, Klingons should be given more content. And it is sad that there no longer seems to be an effort to create KDF specific missions.
There are some good foundry missions out there for KDF, if the devs won't devote the resources, perhaps they could turn some of the better missions into soft-cannon for the game.
I think you have a very naive concept of Star Trek. It wasn't about the adventure, or the thrill, it was about exploration. But not exploration of space. It was about exploration of the different facets of humanity.
The Original series was a series of morality plays, almost blatantly, in fact. From the treatise on power that was Where no man has gone before to the racial issues behind Let that be your last Battlefield, it was an examination of what is right, what is wrong, how do these concepts apply to situations beyond the pale of human experience, or can we not know?
The characters of Worf, B'Lanna, Spock, T'Pol, and to a lesser extent Ro and Seven of Nine all were about separation from ones roots, being alone in a crowd, about being different and the struggle within to live and cope with that. The Klingons themselves were an allegory, in the Original Series, they were the outsider, the feared foreigner, the strange other. In the Next Generation and beyond, they became something altogether different, that proud alien culture of warriors, to whom Honor is everything, and to die in battle is not to be feared or considered a tragedy, but the ultimate act of nobility, to live to ones purpose so fully one dies from it.
That story, the story of honor, the story of courage, of sacrifice, is one that has barely been told in Star Trek. And Star Trek Online, through the stories of the Klingon Faction, is a perfect medium with which to give that facet of humanity it's due.
That is why KDF players are so disappointed. That is why all this Fed favoritism is so unfortunate, saddening, and yes, a little infuriating.
So what I guess all this boils down to is, too bad, so sad, we want KDF content, and no, we're not going to shut up about it.
Very good. Very impressive. I have a Captain 1 in the KDF and I hvae been grinding for a while to get him there.
Very good. Very impressive. I have a Captain 1 in the KDF and I hvae been grinding for a while to get him there.
This is my answer to his OP
>Naive, concerning what? The show was a space western and all westerns had morality issues embedded in them. In fact most shows have morality issues embedded. You said the show wasn't about the adventure, or thrill but the exploration of different facets of humanity and i'm naive. lol No sir, the show was about all that you said it wasn't .... was .... and much more. At a time when our youngest president was gunned down and blacks were rioting and received some respect. Young people were revolting against a war they didn't believed in. Young people were expanding sexual norms, and women were demanding equal rights. Star Trek used these themes to say that we are gonna be alright. Star Trek said the human race will overcome all these troubles and use their experiences while traveling the Stars to fix the universes problems. Even the God like Q was amazed how far the war like humans could love, and have humility and empathy for life. It is these traits that the Q's were afraid of and that these traits would overcome even them in the end. That's why they sent the Borg to stop man from evolving and return man to his base feelings of self preservation. I said that the show was about the voyages of the star ship enterprise, the adventure, and thrill of exploration why do you disagree? Can't we have adventure and thrill while exploring space and the facets of humanity all at the same time. Expand you mind man. Through Warf's interaction with the federation the Klingon empire became less blood thirsty. Janeway gave the Hirogen holodeck technology so that they wouldn't hunt themselves into extinction. The enterprise represents humanities efforts to make the universe a loving place to be and explore. In what way do the Klingons represent this theme? Therefore until the Klingon's can preserve life and not foolishly throw it away with honor lust they should be relegated to sub-role status. Dose this sound like naivety my friend?
Now that you understand that my counter argument destroyed his ---->consider this there's is peace between Feds and Klinks on all levels, Stf's shared, space and ground content teaming in all sectors, ambassador visiting each other's world and even banking there. Fighting Romulan's Borg, cardies, together. This opens up all Fed content and mission to the Klingons. I have solved your missing content join the Federation and save your empire.
Still there were much more Federation based games, much more Federation based book series ect.
Nobody is questioning if it is POSSIBLE to add some Klingon missions, one of the issues is just: The role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe all over is not really big enough for equal content.
Following this logic, Klink content/faction should not even exist.
It does, and they have a "role" to play in this game <----that's the point.
Making them behave like feds won't solve it, BUT writing more Klingon-based content which is in line with Klingon culture will help the situation a great deal, plus add an incentive to play the Klingon faction.
Kinda hypocritical for you to suggest that when your view of Trek seems to not allow for the Klingon psychological view of life, their purpose in it and how they view the universe. For them to be more like the feds, as you have implied = you expect them to act just like Feds. That = conformity. Conformity = no deviation from a set behavior. That = no expansion of anything since you are only supposed to follow behaviors A, B and C in that order.
The idea that aliens will all get along is great, but complete social conformity from different species is not only unrealistic, but in a MMO, also very boring. I'm sure it works great in Hello Kitty Online, but for Star Trek Online, there needs to be some sort of conflict.
Feds got their diplomacy.
Klingon diplomacy is intimidation, and anything less/nicer would be BS for a Klingon player to experience.
This is the second time I noticed the he/she is the forum thread you men just can't take the fact the the picture you see could possibly be a woman of some substance having both beauty and brians. Why does intelligence in beauty bring out your base pigness? Just read and answer to me thats all I ask. Wondering if I am male or female is moot.
It is hard to tell a person's gender online unless they specifically attempt to tell you. I made the mistake of calling Katic by the masculine pronoun. She corrected me and I apologized. In my case, it's easy to mistake me as a man due to my handle name. I don't go all half-cocked when people call me "he". Saying that anybody who doesn't agree with you is a woman hater is, to be quite frank and honest with you, quite a sexist remark.
With that said, can we get a mod in here to close down the thread? Nothing productive will ever be made out of this "discussion" (and I use that term quite loosely).
Still there were much more Federation based games, much more Federation based book series ect.
Nobody is questioning if it is POSSIBLE to add some Klingon missions, one of the issues is just: The role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe all over is not really big enough for equal content.
"The role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe"? In the Star Trek universe the Klingons have an Empire that rivals the Federation in strength. BEFORE "assimilating" Orions, Gorn and Nausicaans. Only, just Klingons have the military strength the whole UFP with humans, vulcans, andorians, Tellarites, etc. combined has. That's "the role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe." And hell, I would have enough mission ideas around Krios alone to fill a whole tier. There is so much about Klingons in the shows Cryptic could take inspiration from, they haven't even scratched the surface.
@ Triangulum_Phoenix
Nobody disagrees with you because of your avatar. There are many female avatars around, so far no one has complained that people automatically disagree with their posts. It has just to do with the fact that what you write is horrible nonsense.
"The role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe"? In the Star Trek universe the Klingons have an Empire that rivals the Federation in strength. BEFORE "assimilating" Orions, Gorn and Nausicaans. Only, just Klingons have the military strength the whole UFP with humans, vulcans, andorians, Tellarites, etc. combined has. That's "the role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe." And hell, I would have enough mission ideas around Krios alone to fill a whole tier. There is so much about Klingons in the shows Cryptic could take inspiration from, they haven't even scratched the surface.
May be I expressed myself a little missunderstanable, but I thought it would be clear out of the context.
The Klingons do not play a role equal to the Federation in Star Trek. From an out-universe-perspective.
Star Trek was about Federation/Earth ships. Klingons played occasional guest roles, thats it. Outside DS9 you can easyly count their appearences. And inside DS9 there are others that had more attention, Cardassians for example.
And thats follow up problem: The Cardassians and Romulans deserve at least as much attention as the Klingons, and ppl keep asking for Romulans again and again. Also a "neutral trading"-faction comes to the table quiet often. How should that work? We dont even get close to "enough content" for the faction that is NOT the red-haired step child, the Federation.
We get right now even less Klingon content. Far less.
And people ask for MORE factions. How should THAT be delivered? Spreading out the already small comunity even more?
Splitting up the already rare content even more to deliver nothing but exclusives to each of them?
This is not star wars where the universe can be "easyly" split up into black and white, wich big fanbases on both sides.
So IMO we need the factions work ENTIRELY diffrent, and I see A LOT OF possibilitys in doing so. Storywise and for the gameplay.
My Idea would be to change the basics of the factions: I mean look at it, what is the diffrence between a KDF Tac and a fed Tac on ground? The KDF tac has less costumes. In space its A LITTLE more but, after all, many ships simply work like fed ships, so beside Carriers and BOPs, the diffrence is just "less and diffrent looking starships".
so 1. : The Classes should work diffrently. Other Kits, unique BO abilitys on both sides (wich would make the grinding for exchange officers worth more then just getting a diffrent looking BO).
Missionwise: KDFs are afraid to loose their "unique kind of gameplay".... well I didnt find that yet, but for the first: All factions should still have their own "starting areas", and a hand full of unique missions during level progression (may be including faction exclusive item-rewards), but the major part of missions should be open for all; and especially HERE is where it can become intresting.
The missions are about to be reworked anyway. We already have a system the gives out diffrent rewards (accolades) for diffrent classes, and diffrent mission objectives for diffrent classes. Why not doing the same for diffrent factions? Every mission could have a "Klingon way" and a "Federation way" to solve it, including an for both accolade. The feds can only get the accolade by playing it with a Klingon and vis a verse.
I mean if alied Klingon and Federation forcer get into a situation that COULD be solved by diplomacy, and the Klingon just decides "Sc*** that, I dont want my Disruptors get rusty. FIRE"... do you thing the "allied Fed" will stand down?
On the other hand a smart Klingon could trust his Fed allies Diplomacy skill. Or the way of the one who pushes the button faster is solved; player choice or a question of cooperation (wich is what Star Trek is supposed to be about).
And there COULD be Romulan and Cardassian and neutral options and accoulades addet over the time (or some options could be available for multible factions... but not always the same for the same faction = In mission A: Feds and Romulans have an diplomacy option, Cardassians and Klingons an agressive one... in mission B Feds and Cardassians have the same options, and Romulans and Klingons have the same).
Well there can be SO MUCH done with such a system....
And I do not see where the Klingons would "loose the unique" gameplay there, the opposite is true: it would encourage it.
Now that you understand that my counter argument destroyed his
Ha! look at the other posters in this thread, Triangulum_Phoenix, the only one who thinks you're right is you. That isn't a destruction by any interpretation of the word.
..consider this there's is peace between Feds and Klinks on all levels, Stf's shared, space and ground content teaming in all sectors, ambassador visiting each other's world and even banking there. Fighting Romulan's Borg, cardies, together. This opens up all Fed content and mission to the Klingons. I have solved your missing content join the Federation and save your empire.
Actually.. None of that is true except the fighting the Borg together part, and even that only comes about in the Borg Red Alerts, the STFs are still separate, the first two tiers of storyline content on the Fed-side put them fighting the Empire, Teaming isn't cross-faction, no storyline Ambassadorial trips or diplomacy, Feds aren't allowed to beam down to Qonos, nor are members of the Empire allowed on ESD or Starfleet Academy, the KDF do not have access to the Fed missions.. Do you even play this game?
Some, note, some, of those things are planned, but not peace, not a treaty, and certainly not the Empire dissolving and the Klingons joining the Federation.
Oh, and I just want to correct you on a couple more things:
DS9 was set on Deep Space Nine, the Enterprise showed up in one episode, the first one, to drop off Chief O'Brien, and to pass the torch. Not a show about the Enterprise. In fact, DS9 wasn't even about exploration or diplomacy, it was more about the conflict between reason and faith, and about the horrors and, sometimes, necessity, of war.
Voyager was set in the Delta Quadrant, the Enterprise was never seen, only mentioned. Again, Not a show about the Enterprise.
TOS was described as a "wagon train to the stars", I readily admit. But, you fail to realize the full meaning behind that phrase. Wagon trains were used by settlers in the Old west to move across dangerous territory, because a wagon train could be circled to create an impromptu defensive ring around the settlers. It was a tactic designed for defense, not pacifism or diplomacy, in fact, it was often the aggression against the Native Americans by the settlers (land theft, murder, Bison genocide) that made such measures a necessary component of survival.
Throw in the real-world production necessities of marketing in a time when the most popular shows on the air were westerns, and broadcasting companies wary of "pure" sci-fi as "too cerebral" and the phrasing makes sense, even though the show itself was hardly a sci-fi western compared to, say, Lost in Space (might as well have been called "Lost on the Prairie") or Time Tunnel or Land of the Giants, both of which featured more Western themes than Star Trek.
Star Trek was only a western in the sense that it involved encountering different cultures, and surviving in harsh conditions. But of course, those are themes that are present in more cerebral high-sci-fi as well, so it's almost like saying StarTtrek is a horror/murder/mystery series because sometimes characters were scared, sometimes people got killed, and sometimes there was a puzzle to solve.
More than anything else, it was a series of Morality Plays, as Gene Roddenberry himself readily admitted after it's run ended. And if you really think you're a bigger authority of the meaning and intent behind Trek than Gene fricking Roddenberry, well.. Then i don't know what to say. You're beyond reason, beyond help if you think that.
Actually.. None of that is true except the fighting the Borg together part, and even that only comes about in the Borg Red Alerts, the STFs are still separate, the first two tiers of storyline content on the Fed-side put them fighting the Empire, Teaming isn't cross-faction, no storyline Ambassadorial trips or diplomacy, Feds aren't allowed to beam down to Qonos, nor are members of the Empire allowed on ESD or Starfleet Academy, the KDF do not have access to the Fed missions.. Do you even play this game?
Everything that she said after "consider this" was speculative, a "what if" scenario to outline how positive she thinks peace can be for the Klingon side of the game.
*shrug* If you're going to scream at eachother like children, atleast be doing so with a full understanding of eachother's point of view.
May be I expressed myself a little missunderstanable, but I thought it would be clear out of the context.
The Klingons do not play a role equal to the Federation in Star Trek. From an out-universe-perspective.
Star Trek was about Federation/Earth ships. Klingons played occasional guest roles, thats it. Outside DS9 you can easyly count their appearences. And inside DS9 there are others that had more attention, Cardassians for example.
I know what you meant, but you kind of missed the point. STO is supposed to put us INTO the Star Trek universe. You could also argue that TOR doesn't need an Imperial faction. After all more Star Wars fiction was written about the Jedi than the Sith, and we know from an out-of-universe perspective that the Imperium of TOR will lose. Otherwise the Republic wouldn't be around during the prequel triology. So yeah, no Imperium for TOR!
And thats follow up problem: The Cardassians and Romulans deserve at least as much attention as the Klingons, and ppl keep asking for Romulans again and again. Also a "neutral trading"-faction comes to the table quiet often. How should that work? We dont even get close to "enough content" for the faction that is NOT the red-haired step child, the Federation.
We get right now even less Klingon content. Far less.
And people ask for MORE factions. How should THAT be delivered? Spreading out the already small comunity even more?
Splitting up the already rare content even more to deliver nothing but exclusives to each of them?[/QUOTE]
You can blame Cryptic for that. They were the ones who built 10 levels around war between Federation and KDF. Personally I think the Federation should start taking in the nicer parts of the Romulan Empire and the Cardassians. They need them, now that the Klingons have bolstered their forces.
This is not star wars where the universe can be "easyly" split up into black and white, wich big fanbases on both sides.
So IMO we need the factions work ENTIRELY diffrent, and I see A LOT OF possibilitys in doing so. Storywise and for the gameplay.
O_o Eh, do you know how incredibly big Klingon fandom is?
My Idea would be to change the basics of the factions: I mean look at it, what is the diffrence between a KDF Tac and a fed Tac on ground? The KDF tac has less costumes. In space its A LITTLE more but, after all, many ships simply work like fed ships, so beside Carriers and BOPs, the diffrence is just "less and diffrent looking starships".
so 1. : The Classes should work diffrently. Other Kits, unique BO abilitys on both sides (wich would make the grinding for exchange officers worth more then just getting a diffrent looking BO).
Missionwise: KDFs are afraid to loose their "unique kind of gameplay".... well I didnt find that yet, but for the first: All factions should still have their own "starting areas", and a hand full of unique missions during level progression (may be including faction exclusive item-rewards), but the major part of missions should be open for all; and especially HERE is where it can become intresting.
The missions are about to be reworked anyway. We already have a system the gives out diffrent rewards (accolades) for diffrent classes, and diffrent mission objectives for diffrent classes. Why not doing the same for diffrent factions? Every mission could have a "Klingon way" and a "Federation way" to solve it, including an for both accolade. The feds can only get the accolade by playing it with a Klingon and vis a verse.
I mean if alied Klingon and Federation forcer get into a situation that COULD be solved by diplomacy, and the Klingon just decides "Sc*** that, I dont want my Disruptors get rusty. FIRE"... do you thing the "allied Fed" will stand down?
On the other hand a smart Klingon could trust his Fed allies Diplomacy skill. Or the way of the one who pushes the button faster is solved; player choice or a question of cooperation (wich is what Star Trek is supposed to be about).
And there COULD be Romulan and Cardassian and neutral options and accoulades addet over the time (or some options could be available for multible factions... but not always the same for the same faction = In mission A: Feds and Romulans have an diplomacy option, Cardassians and Klingons an agressive one... in mission B Feds and Cardassians have the same options, and Romulans and Klingons have the same).
Well there can be SO MUCH done with such a system....
And I do not see where the Klingons would "loose the unique" gameplay there, the opposite is true: it would encourage it.
Your idea sounds nice, but it has an incredibly ugly flaw. Cryptic won't do it. In this game my Gorn quotes Kahless and my Orion pirate goes to Stovokor. What do you expect?
I know what you meant, but you kind of missed the point. STO is supposed to put us INTO the Star Trek universe. You could also argue that TOR doesn't need an Imperial faction. After all more Star Wars fiction was written about the Jedi than the Sith, and we know from an out-of-universe perspective that the Imperium of TOR will lose. Otherwise the Republic wouldn't be around during the prequel triology. So yeah, no Imperium for TOR!
There are as much Republic fans as Empire fans.
But there is BY FAR not as much request for the Klingons as for ALL OTHERS taken together.
The Star Wars universe is split into 2, dark side and light side. The WOW Universe for example was build that exact way for the soley purpose of HAVING that kind of setup, there a TWO FACTION system works.
Star Trek has HUNDRETS of factions and at least the 4 named in the previous post deserve that much attention and to be playable, it doesnt work here.
It never did, that flaw was obvious from day 1 for many.
You can blame Cryptic for that. They were the ones who built 10 levels around war between Federation and KDF. Personally I think the Federation should start taking in the nicer parts of the Romulan Empire and the Cardassians. They need them, now that the Klingons have bolstered their forces.
Of course I can and I do.
And what agrument are 10 levels arround a war that build up sucks, that reasons only limit gameplay in every possible way in that dicussion?
And why should the federation get all the others as subfaction just not the Klingons? That makes even less sense.
O_o Eh, do you know how incredibly big Klingon fandom is?
Yes I know. But its not much bigger then the Romulan fandom, and for sure not bigger then the Federation-fandom. And even smaller compared to all together.
And A LOT of Klingon intrestet players, wich are part of the "incredibly big Klingon fandom" left for the simple reason that this faction system does not work.
[/QUOTE]
Your idea sounds nice, but it has an incredibly ugly flaw. Cryptic won't do it. In this game my Gorn quotes Kahless and my Orion pirate goes to Stovokor. What do you expect?[/QUOTE]
Well on the long term they HAVE to do something similar or simply delete the entire faction. That system doesnt work, even less with Cryptics limitet resources.
The system had the big benefit that almost ALL content is content for all, and that the faction have more then the effect that pple eighter have to play the faction they dont want to play or not to play an MMO with the people they WANT to play with together.
I'll say it again and again: The current system has NO benefit for ANYBODY and just limits in every possible way.
And it doesnt even fit into "Star Trek".
[As for your implication that the Klingons as a culture need to change, I guess you need to change their psychology and physiology as well? Yeah, people know not all Klinks are warriors, but MOST OF THEM are aggressive first, or want to fight and participate in battle. It is the opposite of what your picture-perfect Federation is, with only a few Feds seeking power and glory, but most being passive. Lemme demonstrate:
We look through a veiled glass<
I have parted that veil
The show revolved around the main characters ..... for the Klingon's it was Warf and B'Elanna through their experiences with their Federation counter parts we could project a future Klingon universe where the
Klingon's and Federation would be as I have suggested. What I am postulating is their ideas and dreams. what they perceived the Klingon Empire should be about. Someone said," The characters of Worf, B'Lanna, were about separation from ones roots, being alone in a crowd, about being different and the struggle within to live and cope with that." I agree with that, but they also had Ideas of the changes that needed to be made. If I were white and was separated from them and grew up around blacks once I returned to my own would I be the same? Couldn't I see the injustices of my own people more clearly? Wouldn't I have a better understanding of the changes that needed to be made for the two to come together in common brotherhood? This is the perspective I see coming from the shows portrayal of Warf and B'Elanna. I am a dreamer of sorts I can perceive Warf and B'Elanna's heart-felt desire for a changed Empire and I tried to convey that in these OP's. So therefore you cannot cling to your Klingon lore, open your mind as Warf and B'Elanna did and learn to change ... for through interaction with the Federation .... you cannot help but to see Pacard's and Janeway's total devotion to you.
Feds = Majority: Passive
Klingons = Majority: Aggressive but through Warf and B'Elanna passive
There are as much Republic fans as Empire fans.
But there is BY FAR not as much request for the Klingons as for ALL OTHERS taken together.
The Star Wars universe is split into 2, dark side and light side. The WOW Universe for example was build that exact way for the soley purpose of HAVING that kind of setup, there a TWO FACTION system works.
Star Trek has HUNDRETS of factions and at least the 4 named in the previous post deserve that much attention and to be playable, it doesnt work here.
It never did, that flaw was obvious from day 1 for many.
There's a reason they made Klingons first. Klingons are by far the most popular faction after the Federation. They are the ones with a fully developed language, Shakespeare translation, a rewrite and translation of Charles Dickens' Christmas Carol, interesting swords you can order from many places (I have a bat'leth) and games only about them. I never heard of Star Trek: Romulan or Star Trek: Romulan Academy.
You don't find stuff like that for the other factions.
And I would disagree about Star Wars. It was built with a hero faction and an evil faction with big scary ships and tons of faceless mooks that is ultimately supposed to be annihilated by the good guys.
Of course I can and I do.
And what agrument are 10 levels arround a war that build up sucks, that reasons only limit gameplay in every possible way in that dicussion?
And why should the federation get all the others as subfaction just not the Klingons? That makes even less sense.
Because that's what the Federation does and what their current missions hint at. The Klingons would use the Romulans as mining slaves at best, and do you really think the Cardassians want to ally with the Klingons after they squashed their first democracy? The Klingons already have the Gorn, Orions and Nausicaans. Those still need to be fleshed out.
Yes I know. But its not much bigger then the Romulan fandom, and for sure not bigger then the Federation-fandom. And even smaller compared to all together.
And A LOT of Klingon intrestet players, wich are part of the "incredibly big Klingon fandom" left for the simple reason that this faction system does not work.
I don't know where you get the idea that the Klingon fandom isn't much bigger than the Romulan one. It's a simple matter of supply and demand. If Romulans were as well liked as Klingons there would be more Romulan merchandise. And no, the Klingon players didn't leave because the faction system didn't work. They left because there was nothing to do for them. The Klingons have an Empire to run which provides as much opportunity for protecting borders, scouting, exploration as the Feds have. They just never got it because Cryptic thought that it would be too much work, so they became monster play. Everything about the faction is uninspired. In the tutorial I had to beat up three people to get a ship and a crew. What kind of cake giveaway is that? Real Klingons execute their commanding officers for incompetence to take over.
Well on the long term they HAVE to do something similar or simply delete the entire faction. That system doesnt work, even less with Cryptics limitet resources.
The system had the big benefit that almost ALL content is content for all, and that the faction have more then the effect that pple eighter have to play the faction they dont want to play or not to play an MMO with the people they WANT to play with together.
I'll say it again and again: The current system has NO benefit for ANYBODY and just limits in every possible way.
And it doesnt even fit into "Star Trek".
They won't do it. It's as simple as that. Their game is unable to differentiate anything. Orion pirates go on a spirit quest to Gre'thor, Targs can sniff out if a Klingon belongs to the Federation, Scotty wonders about how strange your uniform is even if it looks exactly like his etc. Giving the Federation content to the Klingons would make them reskinned Feds. Just a skin and a cloak. And that's something they don't deserve.
And I would disagree about Star Wars. It was built with a hero faction and an evil faction with big scary ships and tons of faceless mooks that is ultimately supposed to be annihilated by the good guys.
You can diagree on a chair beeing build to sit on it, doesnt change the fact it is.
And to stay on that Star Wars comparison:
If I ask a an avarege guy on the street for star wars characters, whats usually the first that comes up? Darth Vader. Together with Luke Skywalker and Han Solo.
If I ask an avarage guy for Star Trek names... well Kirk and Spock will be expectet. Picard and Data may be. But Klingons? Worf AT BEST, and he is a Federation officer.
Nobody will name Gowron, Martok, Duras or K'empec.
Because that's what the Federation does and what their current missions hint at. The Klingons would use the Romulans as mining slaves at best, and do you really think the Cardassians want to ally with the Klingons after they squashed their first democracy? The Klingons already have the Gorn, Orions and Nausicaans. Those still need to be fleshed out.
Oh yeah, I fogot that Klingon is just another word for space ork. :rolleyes: How did I forget this?
I dont really want to start in HOW MANY ways that post is wrong... Especially since I'd have to repeat what I have already said.
Just: I dont want to be alone on KDF side... or alone with you and THAT would happen if it would be done your way.
And no, the Klingon players didn't leave because the faction system didn't work. They left because there was nothing to do for them.
Genius- there is nothing to do because the faction concept doesnt work.
Also: Just 18 % of all players EVER EVEN CREATET a KDF toon. That doesnt even mean they played that toon. The rest doesnt even really know of the lack of content.
So you are really questioning why cryptic doesnt devote 50 % of their resources to KDF exclusive content?
They won't do it. It's as simple as that. Their game is unable to differentiate anything. Orion pirates go on a spirit quest to Gre'thor, Targs can sniff out if a Klingon belongs to the Federation, Scotty wonders about how strange your uniform is even if it looks exactly like his etc. Giving the Federation content to the Klingons would make them reskinned Feds. Just a skin and a cloak. And that's something they don't deserve.
Well thats a matter of DEVELOPMENT. The Bird of Preys couldnt move wings before, the game couldnt show doors in an accurate size before, the game couldnt give diffrent objectives for diffrent classes before.
Now all that and more works, and what I'm asking for is nothing but using current features in another way.
Also: When I'm trying to get a federation officer into my crew HE can defferentiate.
So "the is cant do XP" or "differentiate" isnt a point.
And I suggestet above how to do that WITHOUT "making us feds in Klingon cloaks".... or better how to STOP making us feds in Klingon cloaks becuase thats EXACTLY what we are now.
I agree with that, but they also had Ideas of the changes that needed to be made. If I were white and was separated from them and grew up around blacks once I returned to my own would I be the same? Couldn't I see the injustices of my own people more clearly? Wouldn't I have a better understanding of the changes that needed to be made for the two to come together in common brotherhood? This is the perspective I see coming from the shows portrayal of Warf and B'Elanna. I am a dreamer of sorts I can perceive Warf and B'Elanna's heart-felt desire for a changed Empire and I tried to convey that in these OP's. So therefore you cannot cling to your Klingon lore, open your mind as Warf and B'Elanna did and learn to change ... for through interaction with the Federation .... you cannot help but to see Pacard's and Janeway's total devotion to you.
Picard then recalls Worf to duty, as the Enterprise will have to leave the sector. Worf then asks Picard for an extended leave of absence to serve with the Klingons. Picard denies the request, telling Worf that his obligations as a Starfleet officer are incompatible with remaining on board a Klingon ship during a time of war. Worf decides then to resign his commission as a Starfleet officer.
Picard comes to Worf's quarters while he packs and asks Worf if he's certain he's making the right decision. Worf says that while he's spent most of his life around Humans and respects them, in the end, he is Klingon his heart is of that world and he does hear the cry of the warrior.
Worf, when the federation refused to acknowledge the Undine threat, permanently cut off ties with Starfleet & the Federation. Go to Qonos, the First City, he's sitting on a bench in the courtyard outside the Great Hall.
B'lanna was only half-Klingon, her father was human, she was raised among humans, but even she feels her blood heat during battle, as seen by her Holodeck programs where she slaughters Cardassians, and how, when she has a near-death experience, she goes to Gre'Thor, aboard the Barge of the Dead.
You continuously act like the Federation is the be-all end-all. It's not. from Section 31 to the multiple violations of the Treaty of Algeron, from the way the Prime Directive ties Captains hands and allows entire civilizations to die off, to the meddlesome and intrusive acts of Captains interfering with internal Imperial issues, Cardassian politics, and Romulan sovereignty..
The Federation is flawed, their ideals are flawed, their pacifism makes them weak and opens them up to infiltration, corruption, and infighting. They have twice, twice now, had their actions dictated by shapeshifters they have waited until too late to try and detect and fight. they have, twice now, chosen to act against the Empire when the Empire is fighting for the interests of the entire Alpha Quadrant, first when the Empire declared war on the Cardassians, and again now that the Empire has decided to rid the Alpha Quadrant of the Undine threat.
The Empire is not perfect either, not by a long shot, but it's at least trying to counter the threat the Undine represent. And it's doing so in the Klingon way, in the way that the strong survive, the strong lead, and the weak, the failures, the dishonorable, are not allowed to drag down the rest of us.
You can diagree on a chair beeing build to sit on it, doesnt change the fact it is.
And to stay on that Star Wars comparison:
If I ask a an avarege guy on the street for star wars characters, whats usually the first that comes up? Darth Vader. Together with Luke Skywalker and Han Solo.
If I ask an avarage guy for Star Trek names... well Kirk and Spock will be expectet. Picard and Data may be. But Klingons? Worf AT BEST, and he is a Federation officer.
Nobody will name Gowron, Martok, Duras or K'empec.
Yeah, that's what's to be expected if you compare a series to movies with one recurring villain. For me Worf would be the first.
Oh yeah, I fogot that Klingon is just another word for space ork. :rolleyes: How did I forget this?
I dont really want to start in HOW MANY ways that post is wrong... Especially since I'd have to repeat what I have already said.
Whut? Klingons are no mushrooms, they don't yell Waaagh all the time and they are able to pronounce th, so please explain to me why what I said would make them space orks.
Genius- there is nothing to do because the faction concept doesnt work.
Also: Just 18 % of all players EVER EVEN CREATET a KDF toon. That doesnt even mean they played that toon. The rest doesnt even really know of the lack of content.
I think they never really made it clear if there were only 18% of PLAYERS who had made a KDF char or only 18% total KDF chars. Even if it's players, that's no wonder since it's the "PvP faction" people go where the content is, period.
So you are really questioning why cryptic doesnt devote 50 % of their resources to KDF exclusive content?
Sorry, but that reasoning doesn't work. Klingons are better fleshed out than the Horde was at the end of Frozen Throne. Still Blizzard managed to make enough content for now 85 levels as far as I know. Not only that, each faction has multiple starting areas that cover around 20 levels. If they had delivered a whole Klingon faction on release it would be healthy now. Certainly smaller than the Federation, but that the Horde was smaller didn't get Blizzard to neglect them either.
Well thats a matter of DEVELOPMENT. The Bird of Preys couldnt move wings before, the game couldnt show doors in an accurate size before, the game couldnt give diffrent objectives for diffrent classes before.
Now all that and more works, and what I'm asking for is nothing but using current features in another way.
Also: When I'm trying to get a federation officer into my crew HE can defferentiate.
So "the is cant do XP" or "differentiate" isnt a point.
And I suggestet above how to do that WITHOUT "making us feds in Klingon cloaks".... or better how to STOP making us feds in Klingon cloaks becuase thats EXACTLY what we are now.
Yeah, look at Caitian manes, retraits, and all the other things that were talked about but never went anywhere. They'd rather make new Klingon content than trying to to mesh Klingon and Federation gameplay together in any half-way decent way. And Klingons are not Feds at the moment. They are non-workers.
And no, the Klingon players didn't leave because the faction system didn't work. They left because there was nothing to do for them.
Genius- there is nothing to do because the faction concept doesn't work.
I just have to chime in on this, I agree with K-Tar, I've run a Fleet over on the KDF side since launch, and every time a player bothers to inform me of why they're leaving, more than half the time it's because of lack of content.
The other reasons that pop up less often are rage-quit over C-Store, the recent P2W debacle, and the way the KDF is more often than not an afterthought.
it's not that the Faction concept doesn't work, it has worked in other games before, and will continue to work in other games in the future, it is the way the model has been implemented by (or rather, the lack of support from) Cryptic.
To put it in another way, just because a weapon misfires, doesn't mean the weapon is faulty, it more likely than not means the weapon isn't being used correctly.
Factions are fine, look at the demand for Romulans, which, if the KDF wasn't already in-game, then would most likely be demand for Imperial play.. Factions are good, Cryptic simply hasn't exploited the full potential of the Faction model.
Imagine if F2P launches, and they do the next few Featured Episode series, and then Season Five or Six is "The rise of the Empire" and the KDF gets exclusive storyline PvE from level 1 to 51, stories of the War, of rooting out Undine infiltration, of exposing and discommendation (or execution) of dishonorable Warriors, of defending Imperial Space from Starfleet offensives, of defeating the the Borg (not shared missions against the Borg, not STFs, not Cross-Faction content, pure KDF anti-Borg missions).. Imagine if, along with that Season, KDF play was unlocked from level one for both Subscribed and F2P players.
There are a lot of Star trek fans out there who have wanted to play this game who haven't because of the pay wall, a lot of them are Klingon fans, a lot of them would flood into the Empire if there was truly Klingon content for them to enjoy. I know three people personally, one old boyfriend and two cousins, who plan to play once F2P launches, and who share my hope that the promise of KDF content is honest this time around, because they want to play Klingons, not Feds, not Starfleet, not lovey-dovey pacifists, but Klingons.
Comments
You're reading too much into it.
Far too much given your extensive response.
In cases like the alias I chose for myself people can use "he" simply because anything else would sound odd.
Who or what is behind it is pretty moot.
In case of Katic for example several people already know the gender behind the alias and if that is not the case she'll correct someone when required.
In your case the avatar might prompt people to assume it migh represent the actual person behind it.
In addition your alias can easily be applied to either gender without problem.
So it's just about being polite and properly using the needed pronoun.
I find it hightly disturbing that you would assume there is a misogynist attitude behind the wish to just be polite.
Well, again, thats in my opinion EXACTLY what should happen... and I like playing KDF much more then Fed.
Sorry... there are so many male players with female names/avatars arround you can never be sure... not meant to be offensive in any way.
As was said, there are Klingon-based games, as well as several Klingon-centered episodes, as well as books by talented writers (DiCanido's Gorkan series, for one example) which demonstrate that making Klingon-based stories is not anything new, nor impossible.
As for your implication that the Klingons as a culture need to change, I guess you need to change their psychology and physiology as well? Yeah, people know not all Klinks are warriors, but MOST OF THEM are aggressive first, or want to fight and participate in battle. It is the opposite of what your picture-perfect Federation is, with only a few Feds seeking power and glory, but most being passive. Lemme demonstrate:
Feds = Majority: Passive
Klingons = Majority: Aggressive
FYI - the countering to your stance has ZERO to do with your avatar and EVERYTHING to do with your stance. You think you're the first person to lob this kinda thread? Lol, ya right...
:rolleyes:
Nobody is questioning if it is POSSIBLE to add some Klingon missions, one of the issues is just: The role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe all over is not really big enough for equal content.
So, right: As long as they ARE an indipendent faction like now they SHOULD have equal content.
But to keep them as a seperate faction is the problem in the first place. Klingons were Federation allied for the major part of "Star Trek", and they were more intresting as such.
Also, Kithomer was the TOS-crews great legacy and shouldnt be thrown away.
And there are SO MANY intresting things that could be done with the Klingons as a subfaction (nobody is saying that they shouldnt keep a few unique missions by the way...)
But the benefit of an entirely seperate faction is imo exactly ZERO.
Also: Both factions have to little content. And what a lot of KDFlers dont get: FED will ALWAYS have the priority. So without particially joining the factions there will be no "real" klingon content.
Its the only reasonable aproach.
stop with the blatant sexism.
the entire storyline is dependent on the war, half the fed missions are war related. if you suddenly ended the war, a considerable amount of the game would no longer make sense.
you haven't proven anyone wrong
again, blatant sexism
Well, thanks a lot. You know that by saying this the developers will now never create the traditional pink ponies for targ hunts to buy in the C-Store. And I was so looking foward to buying them for all my Klingons. At best now we will get green horse-like lizards.
I think the OP was trying to say that Klingons were less developed in the show than Humans were. But so was every non-human. Then it looked more like a rant, so I can't be quite sure.
In either case, Klingons should be given more content. And it is sad that there no longer seems to be an effort to create KDF specific missions.
There are some good foundry missions out there for KDF, if the devs won't devote the resources, perhaps they could turn some of the better missions into soft-cannon for the game.
Very good. Very impressive. I have a Captain 1 in the KDF and I hvae been grinding for a while to get him there.
>Naive, concerning what? The show was a space western and all westerns had morality issues embedded in them. In fact most shows have morality issues embedded. You said the show wasn't about the adventure, or thrill but the exploration of different facets of humanity and i'm naive. lol No sir, the show was about all that you said it wasn't .... was .... and much more. At a time when our youngest president was gunned down and blacks were rioting and received some respect. Young people were revolting against a war they didn't believed in. Young people were expanding sexual norms, and women were demanding equal rights. Star Trek used these themes to say that we are gonna be alright. Star Trek said the human race will overcome all these troubles and use their experiences while traveling the Stars to fix the universes problems. Even the God like Q was amazed how far the war like humans could love, and have humility and empathy for life. It is these traits that the Q's were afraid of and that these traits would overcome even them in the end. That's why they sent the Borg to stop man from evolving and return man to his base feelings of self preservation. I said that the show was about the voyages of the star ship enterprise, the adventure, and thrill of exploration why do you disagree? Can't we have adventure and thrill while exploring space and the facets of humanity all at the same time. Expand you mind man. Through Warf's interaction with the federation the Klingon empire became less blood thirsty. Janeway gave the Hirogen holodeck technology so that they wouldn't hunt themselves into extinction. The enterprise represents humanities efforts to make the universe a loving place to be and explore. In what way do the Klingons represent this theme? Therefore until the Klingon's can preserve life and not foolishly throw it away with honor lust they should be relegated to sub-role status. Dose this sound like naivety my friend?
Now that you understand that my counter argument destroyed his ---->consider this there's is peace between Feds and Klinks on all levels, Stf's shared, space and ground content teaming in all sectors, ambassador visiting each other's world and even banking there. Fighting Romulan's Borg, cardies, together. This opens up all Fed content and mission to the Klingons. I have solved your missing content join the Federation and save your empire.
It does, and they have a "role" to play in this game <----that's the point.
Making them behave like feds won't solve it, BUT writing more Klingon-based content which is in line with Klingon culture will help the situation a great deal, plus add an incentive to play the Klingon faction.
The idea that aliens will all get along is great, but complete social conformity from different species is not only unrealistic, but in a MMO, also very boring. I'm sure it works great in Hello Kitty Online, but for Star Trek Online, there needs to be some sort of conflict.
Feds got their diplomacy.
Klingon diplomacy is intimidation, and anything less/nicer would be BS for a Klingon player to experience.
It is hard to tell a person's gender online unless they specifically attempt to tell you. I made the mistake of calling Katic by the masculine pronoun. She corrected me and I apologized. In my case, it's easy to mistake me as a man due to my handle name. I don't go all half-cocked when people call me "he". Saying that anybody who doesn't agree with you is a woman hater is, to be quite frank and honest with you, quite a sexist remark.
With that said, can we get a mod in here to close down the thread? Nothing productive will ever be made out of this "discussion" (and I use that term quite loosely).
Remember, they're called "missions" not content, the meaning of that word is subjective.
"The role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe"? In the Star Trek universe the Klingons have an Empire that rivals the Federation in strength. BEFORE "assimilating" Orions, Gorn and Nausicaans. Only, just Klingons have the military strength the whole UFP with humans, vulcans, andorians, Tellarites, etc. combined has. That's "the role of the Klingons in the Star Trek universe." And hell, I would have enough mission ideas around Krios alone to fill a whole tier. There is so much about Klingons in the shows Cryptic could take inspiration from, they haven't even scratched the surface.
@ Triangulum_Phoenix
Nobody disagrees with you because of your avatar. There are many female avatars around, so far no one has complained that people automatically disagree with their posts. It has just to do with the fact that what you write is horrible nonsense.
Heh, thanks, my avatar has moved to another forum, I don't feel comfortable showing my real face here anymore.
May be I expressed myself a little missunderstanable, but I thought it would be clear out of the context.
The Klingons do not play a role equal to the Federation in Star Trek. From an out-universe-perspective.
Star Trek was about Federation/Earth ships. Klingons played occasional guest roles, thats it. Outside DS9 you can easyly count their appearences. And inside DS9 there are others that had more attention, Cardassians for example.
And thats follow up problem: The Cardassians and Romulans deserve at least as much attention as the Klingons, and ppl keep asking for Romulans again and again. Also a "neutral trading"-faction comes to the table quiet often. How should that work? We dont even get close to "enough content" for the faction that is NOT the red-haired step child, the Federation.
We get right now even less Klingon content. Far less.
And people ask for MORE factions. How should THAT be delivered? Spreading out the already small comunity even more?
Splitting up the already rare content even more to deliver nothing but exclusives to each of them?
This is not star wars where the universe can be "easyly" split up into black and white, wich big fanbases on both sides.
So IMO we need the factions work ENTIRELY diffrent, and I see A LOT OF possibilitys in doing so. Storywise and for the gameplay.
My Idea would be to change the basics of the factions: I mean look at it, what is the diffrence between a KDF Tac and a fed Tac on ground? The KDF tac has less costumes. In space its A LITTLE more but, after all, many ships simply work like fed ships, so beside Carriers and BOPs, the diffrence is just "less and diffrent looking starships".
so 1. : The Classes should work diffrently. Other Kits, unique BO abilitys on both sides (wich would make the grinding for exchange officers worth more then just getting a diffrent looking BO).
Missionwise: KDFs are afraid to loose their "unique kind of gameplay".... well I didnt find that yet, but for the first: All factions should still have their own "starting areas", and a hand full of unique missions during level progression (may be including faction exclusive item-rewards), but the major part of missions should be open for all; and especially HERE is where it can become intresting.
The missions are about to be reworked anyway. We already have a system the gives out diffrent rewards (accolades) for diffrent classes, and diffrent mission objectives for diffrent classes. Why not doing the same for diffrent factions? Every mission could have a "Klingon way" and a "Federation way" to solve it, including an for both accolade. The feds can only get the accolade by playing it with a Klingon and vis a verse.
I mean if alied Klingon and Federation forcer get into a situation that COULD be solved by diplomacy, and the Klingon just decides "Sc*** that, I dont want my Disruptors get rusty. FIRE"... do you thing the "allied Fed" will stand down?
On the other hand a smart Klingon could trust his Fed allies Diplomacy skill. Or the way of the one who pushes the button faster is solved; player choice or a question of cooperation (wich is what Star Trek is supposed to be about).
And there COULD be Romulan and Cardassian and neutral options and accoulades addet over the time (or some options could be available for multible factions... but not always the same for the same faction = In mission A: Feds and Romulans have an diplomacy option, Cardassians and Klingons an agressive one... in mission B Feds and Cardassians have the same options, and Romulans and Klingons have the same).
Well there can be SO MUCH done with such a system....
And I do not see where the Klingons would "loose the unique" gameplay there, the opposite is true: it would encourage it.
The way you view Star Trek, and the way you view the klingon people, and the way you view the Empire.. The list grows with every post you make!
Ha! look at the other posters in this thread, Triangulum_Phoenix, the only one who thinks you're right is you. That isn't a destruction by any interpretation of the word.
Actually.. None of that is true except the fighting the Borg together part, and even that only comes about in the Borg Red Alerts, the STFs are still separate, the first two tiers of storyline content on the Fed-side put them fighting the Empire, Teaming isn't cross-faction, no storyline Ambassadorial trips or diplomacy, Feds aren't allowed to beam down to Qonos, nor are members of the Empire allowed on ESD or Starfleet Academy, the KDF do not have access to the Fed missions.. Do you even play this game?
Some, note, some, of those things are planned, but not peace, not a treaty, and certainly not the Empire dissolving and the Klingons joining the Federation.
Oh, and I just want to correct you on a couple more things:
DS9 was set on Deep Space Nine, the Enterprise showed up in one episode, the first one, to drop off Chief O'Brien, and to pass the torch. Not a show about the Enterprise. In fact, DS9 wasn't even about exploration or diplomacy, it was more about the conflict between reason and faith, and about the horrors and, sometimes, necessity, of war.
Voyager was set in the Delta Quadrant, the Enterprise was never seen, only mentioned. Again, Not a show about the Enterprise.
TOS was described as a "wagon train to the stars", I readily admit. But, you fail to realize the full meaning behind that phrase. Wagon trains were used by settlers in the Old west to move across dangerous territory, because a wagon train could be circled to create an impromptu defensive ring around the settlers. It was a tactic designed for defense, not pacifism or diplomacy, in fact, it was often the aggression against the Native Americans by the settlers (land theft, murder, Bison genocide) that made such measures a necessary component of survival.
Throw in the real-world production necessities of marketing in a time when the most popular shows on the air were westerns, and broadcasting companies wary of "pure" sci-fi as "too cerebral" and the phrasing makes sense, even though the show itself was hardly a sci-fi western compared to, say, Lost in Space (might as well have been called "Lost on the Prairie") or Time Tunnel or Land of the Giants, both of which featured more Western themes than Star Trek.
Star Trek was only a western in the sense that it involved encountering different cultures, and surviving in harsh conditions. But of course, those are themes that are present in more cerebral high-sci-fi as well, so it's almost like saying StarTtrek is a horror/murder/mystery series because sometimes characters were scared, sometimes people got killed, and sometimes there was a puzzle to solve.
More than anything else, it was a series of Morality Plays, as Gene Roddenberry himself readily admitted after it's run ended. And if you really think you're a bigger authority of the meaning and intent behind Trek than Gene fricking Roddenberry, well.. Then i don't know what to say. You're beyond reason, beyond help if you think that.
Everything that she said after "consider this" was speculative, a "what if" scenario to outline how positive she thinks peace can be for the Klingon side of the game.
*shrug* If you're going to scream at eachother like children, atleast be doing so with a full understanding of eachother's point of view.
"there's is", corrected for the repeated word (is). If I said "consider this, there is __________" would the blank be a hypothetical?
If you said it? No, but you'd use punctuation correctly and make better word choices.
Her? Yep, she's shown enough basic knowledge of Star Trek Online that it is the only interpretation that fits.
This is the kind of stuff that happens when people try to add poetry to their language.
Well said though!!
I know what you meant, but you kind of missed the point. STO is supposed to put us INTO the Star Trek universe. You could also argue that TOR doesn't need an Imperial faction. After all more Star Wars fiction was written about the Jedi than the Sith, and we know from an out-of-universe perspective that the Imperium of TOR will lose. Otherwise the Republic wouldn't be around during the prequel triology. So yeah, no Imperium for TOR!
We get right now even less Klingon content. Far less.
And people ask for MORE factions. How should THAT be delivered? Spreading out the already small comunity even more?
Splitting up the already rare content even more to deliver nothing but exclusives to each of them?[/QUOTE]
You can blame Cryptic for that. They were the ones who built 10 levels around war between Federation and KDF. Personally I think the Federation should start taking in the nicer parts of the Romulan Empire and the Cardassians. They need them, now that the Klingons have bolstered their forces.
O_o Eh, do you know how incredibly big Klingon fandom is?
Your idea sounds nice, but it has an incredibly ugly flaw. Cryptic won't do it. In this game my Gorn quotes Kahless and my Orion pirate goes to Stovokor. What do you expect?
There are as much Republic fans as Empire fans.
But there is BY FAR not as much request for the Klingons as for ALL OTHERS taken together.
The Star Wars universe is split into 2, dark side and light side. The WOW Universe for example was build that exact way for the soley purpose of HAVING that kind of setup, there a TWO FACTION system works.
Star Trek has HUNDRETS of factions and at least the 4 named in the previous post deserve that much attention and to be playable, it doesnt work here.
It never did, that flaw was obvious from day 1 for many.
Of course I can and I do.
And what agrument are 10 levels arround a war that build up sucks, that reasons only limit gameplay in every possible way in that dicussion?
And why should the federation get all the others as subfaction just not the Klingons? That makes even less sense.
Yes I know. But its not much bigger then the Romulan fandom, and for sure not bigger then the Federation-fandom. And even smaller compared to all together.
And A LOT of Klingon intrestet players, wich are part of the "incredibly big Klingon fandom" left for the simple reason that this faction system does not work.
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Your idea sounds nice, but it has an incredibly ugly flaw. Cryptic won't do it. In this game my Gorn quotes Kahless and my Orion pirate goes to Stovokor. What do you expect?[/QUOTE]
Well on the long term they HAVE to do something similar or simply delete the entire faction. That system doesnt work, even less with Cryptics limitet resources.
The system had the big benefit that almost ALL content is content for all, and that the faction have more then the effect that pple eighter have to play the faction they dont want to play or not to play an MMO with the people they WANT to play with together.
I'll say it again and again: The current system has NO benefit for ANYBODY and just limits in every possible way.
And it doesnt even fit into "Star Trek".
Feds = Majority: Passive
Klingons = Majority: Aggressive
We look through a veiled glass<
I have parted that veil
The show revolved around the main characters ..... for the Klingon's it was Warf and B'Elanna through their experiences with their Federation counter parts we could project a future Klingon universe where the
Klingon's and Federation would be as I have suggested. What I am postulating is their ideas and dreams. what they perceived the Klingon Empire should be about. Someone said," The characters of Worf, B'Lanna, were about separation from ones roots, being alone in a crowd, about being different and the struggle within to live and cope with that." I agree with that, but they also had Ideas of the changes that needed to be made. If I were white and was separated from them and grew up around blacks once I returned to my own would I be the same? Couldn't I see the injustices of my own people more clearly? Wouldn't I have a better understanding of the changes that needed to be made for the two to come together in common brotherhood? This is the perspective I see coming from the shows portrayal of Warf and B'Elanna. I am a dreamer of sorts I can perceive Warf and B'Elanna's heart-felt desire for a changed Empire and I tried to convey that in these OP's. So therefore you cannot cling to your Klingon lore, open your mind as Warf and B'Elanna did and learn to change ... for through interaction with the Federation .... you cannot help but to see Pacard's and Janeway's total devotion to you.
Feds = Majority: Passive
Klingons = Majority: Aggressive but through Warf and B'Elanna passive
And modest to boot.
My first officer didnt appear in the Series^^
There's a reason they made Klingons first. Klingons are by far the most popular faction after the Federation. They are the ones with a fully developed language, Shakespeare translation, a rewrite and translation of Charles Dickens' Christmas Carol, interesting swords you can order from many places (I have a bat'leth) and games only about them. I never heard of Star Trek: Romulan or Star Trek: Romulan Academy.
http://www.imperialklingons.com/
http://www.u-theopera.org/
http://klingonarmy2.tripod.com/
http://www.kuriositas.com/2010/12/klingon-christmas-carol.html
You don't find stuff like that for the other factions.
And I would disagree about Star Wars. It was built with a hero faction and an evil faction with big scary ships and tons of faceless mooks that is ultimately supposed to be annihilated by the good guys.
Because that's what the Federation does and what their current missions hint at. The Klingons would use the Romulans as mining slaves at best, and do you really think the Cardassians want to ally with the Klingons after they squashed their first democracy? The Klingons already have the Gorn, Orions and Nausicaans. Those still need to be fleshed out.
I don't know where you get the idea that the Klingon fandom isn't much bigger than the Romulan one. It's a simple matter of supply and demand. If Romulans were as well liked as Klingons there would be more Romulan merchandise. And no, the Klingon players didn't leave because the faction system didn't work. They left because there was nothing to do for them. The Klingons have an Empire to run which provides as much opportunity for protecting borders, scouting, exploration as the Feds have. They just never got it because Cryptic thought that it would be too much work, so they became monster play. Everything about the faction is uninspired. In the tutorial I had to beat up three people to get a ship and a crew. What kind of cake giveaway is that? Real Klingons execute their commanding officers for incompetence to take over.
They won't do it. It's as simple as that. Their game is unable to differentiate anything. Orion pirates go on a spirit quest to Gre'thor, Targs can sniff out if a Klingon belongs to the Federation, Scotty wonders about how strange your uniform is even if it looks exactly like his etc. Giving the Federation content to the Klingons would make them reskinned Feds. Just a skin and a cloak. And that's something they don't deserve.
You can diagree on a chair beeing build to sit on it, doesnt change the fact it is.
And to stay on that Star Wars comparison:
If I ask a an avarege guy on the street for star wars characters, whats usually the first that comes up? Darth Vader. Together with Luke Skywalker and Han Solo.
If I ask an avarage guy for Star Trek names... well Kirk and Spock will be expectet. Picard and Data may be. But Klingons? Worf AT BEST, and he is a Federation officer.
Nobody will name Gowron, Martok, Duras or K'empec.
Oh yeah, I fogot that Klingon is just another word for space ork. :rolleyes: How did I forget this?
I dont really want to start in HOW MANY ways that post is wrong... Especially since I'd have to repeat what I have already said.
Just: I dont want to be alone on KDF side... or alone with you and THAT would happen if it would be done your way.
I get the Idea from the little fact that it IS THAT WAY.
Genius- there is nothing to do because the faction concept doesnt work.
Also: Just 18 % of all players EVER EVEN CREATET a KDF toon. That doesnt even mean they played that toon. The rest doesnt even really know of the lack of content.
So you are really questioning why cryptic doesnt devote 50 % of their resources to KDF exclusive content?
Well thats a matter of DEVELOPMENT. The Bird of Preys couldnt move wings before, the game couldnt show doors in an accurate size before, the game couldnt give diffrent objectives for diffrent classes before.
Now all that and more works, and what I'm asking for is nothing but using current features in another way.
Also: When I'm trying to get a federation officer into my crew HE can defferentiate.
So "the is cant do XP" or "differentiate" isnt a point.
And I suggestet above how to do that WITHOUT "making us feds in Klingon cloaks".... or better how to STOP making us feds in Klingon cloaks becuase thats EXACTLY what we are now.
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry.. This is just more naivety. TNG Season 4, Episode 26, Act 5:
Worf, when the federation refused to acknowledge the Undine threat, permanently cut off ties with Starfleet & the Federation. Go to Qonos, the First City, he's sitting on a bench in the courtyard outside the Great Hall.
B'lanna was only half-Klingon, her father was human, she was raised among humans, but even she feels her blood heat during battle, as seen by her Holodeck programs where she slaughters Cardassians, and how, when she has a near-death experience, she goes to Gre'Thor, aboard the Barge of the Dead.
You continuously act like the Federation is the be-all end-all. It's not. from Section 31 to the multiple violations of the Treaty of Algeron, from the way the Prime Directive ties Captains hands and allows entire civilizations to die off, to the meddlesome and intrusive acts of Captains interfering with internal Imperial issues, Cardassian politics, and Romulan sovereignty..
The Federation is flawed, their ideals are flawed, their pacifism makes them weak and opens them up to infiltration, corruption, and infighting. They have twice, twice now, had their actions dictated by shapeshifters they have waited until too late to try and detect and fight. they have, twice now, chosen to act against the Empire when the Empire is fighting for the interests of the entire Alpha Quadrant, first when the Empire declared war on the Cardassians, and again now that the Empire has decided to rid the Alpha Quadrant of the Undine threat.
The Empire is not perfect either, not by a long shot, but it's at least trying to counter the threat the Undine represent. And it's doing so in the Klingon way, in the way that the strong survive, the strong lead, and the weak, the failures, the dishonorable, are not allowed to drag down the rest of us.
Yeah, that's what's to be expected if you compare a series to movies with one recurring villain. For me Worf would be the first.
Whut? Klingons are no mushrooms, they don't yell Waaagh all the time and they are able to pronounce th, so please explain to me why what I said would make them space orks.
Don't you mean "more alone on the KDF side"?
Ah, because you say so! Of course, that uncontestable proof.
I think they never really made it clear if there were only 18% of PLAYERS who had made a KDF char or only 18% total KDF chars. Even if it's players, that's no wonder since it's the "PvP faction" people go where the content is, period.
Sorry, but that reasoning doesn't work. Klingons are better fleshed out than the Horde was at the end of Frozen Throne. Still Blizzard managed to make enough content for now 85 levels as far as I know. Not only that, each faction has multiple starting areas that cover around 20 levels. If they had delivered a whole Klingon faction on release it would be healthy now. Certainly smaller than the Federation, but that the Horde was smaller didn't get Blizzard to neglect them either.
Yeah, look at Caitian manes, retraits, and all the other things that were talked about but never went anywhere. They'd rather make new Klingon content than trying to to mesh Klingon and Federation gameplay together in any half-way decent way. And Klingons are not Feds at the moment. They are non-workers.
I just have to chime in on this, I agree with K-Tar, I've run a Fleet over on the KDF side since launch, and every time a player bothers to inform me of why they're leaving, more than half the time it's because of lack of content.
The other reasons that pop up less often are rage-quit over C-Store, the recent P2W debacle, and the way the KDF is more often than not an afterthought.
it's not that the Faction concept doesn't work, it has worked in other games before, and will continue to work in other games in the future, it is the way the model has been implemented by (or rather, the lack of support from) Cryptic.
To put it in another way, just because a weapon misfires, doesn't mean the weapon is faulty, it more likely than not means the weapon isn't being used correctly.
Factions are fine, look at the demand for Romulans, which, if the KDF wasn't already in-game, then would most likely be demand for Imperial play.. Factions are good, Cryptic simply hasn't exploited the full potential of the Faction model.
Imagine if F2P launches, and they do the next few Featured Episode series, and then Season Five or Six is "The rise of the Empire" and the KDF gets exclusive storyline PvE from level 1 to 51, stories of the War, of rooting out Undine infiltration, of exposing and discommendation (or execution) of dishonorable Warriors, of defending Imperial Space from Starfleet offensives, of defeating the the Borg (not shared missions against the Borg, not STFs, not Cross-Faction content, pure KDF anti-Borg missions).. Imagine if, along with that Season, KDF play was unlocked from level one for both Subscribed and F2P players.
There are a lot of Star trek fans out there who have wanted to play this game who haven't because of the pay wall, a lot of them are Klingon fans, a lot of them would flood into the Empire if there was truly Klingon content for them to enjoy. I know three people personally, one old boyfriend and two cousins, who plan to play once F2P launches, and who share my hope that the promise of KDF content is honest this time around, because they want to play Klingons, not Feds, not Starfleet, not lovey-dovey pacifists, but Klingons.