Well, well, well, you Klingon's have come out in droves to prey upon the bones of poor Triangulum_phoenix. I am shocked at the sarcasm and innuendo you throw at every opportunity. You dare to mention Kirks name when his only son was gunned down by those respectable Klingons? Honor bound murderers worried about Federation technology concerning the genesis project. Why are fierce Klingons so insecure? Is this honorable? I warp into the last space part of Cure and guess who the boss is? An assimulated Borg Klingon ship. You speak of undine infiltration while during the Diplomatic Orders mission ambassador Sokketh was exposed as an undine, turns into a Klingon, and issues orders and the Klingon warriors who have noses for undine infiltrations were completely fooled. Where is this undine now? And what about Bvat who wants to use the Doomsday Machine to further his own lust for blood? Im sure he will get many Klingons to serve under him. So as you can see I am right when I point out that Klingon honor is used as a means to crush, kill, and destroy. The federation respects Klingon territory or your planet would be a burned out cinder.
I only have three Klingon toons. All are LtG but only three. I have ten Feds Three VAs, two RAUH, one RALH, one Captain and the rest are LtCs. You should be considerate of how you throw your innuendo as well. Here I stand against you. In the future you may see we stand side by side. It would be a boon to your credibility to remember we are all a community, irregardless of faction, joined by this game and our interest for Star Trek.
Hm, are you really a Trekkie? Kirk's son wasn't gunned down, he was stabbed when he defended Saavik, a good warrior's death. And the trend of taking hostages, the augment virus originally introduced with its human DNA is thank Kahless mostly gone.
If you start blaming the Klingons for what assimilated Klingons do I have to remind you of Locutus of Borg. I guess you can't stand Picard now. It must be an atrocity for you that he not only kept his command after being deassimilated but also became an ambassador later in life.
The Klingons told you what Sokketh was. They don't have "noses" for that, but they have better intel than the Federation. That doesn't mean that they will instantly shoot everybody who gives them a reasonable command. Everything could have been so easy if you had trusted them and handed him over, he never could have fooled anybody ever again.... Well, he can't now either since his ship was destroyed, but it costed a lot more Vulcan and Klingon lives.
I see your General B'vat and raise you a Luther Sloan and an Admiral Cartwright. There are always crazy nutjobs who are willing to commit atrocities in the name of what they think is right. B'vat is dead and no one mourns the wicked.
Seems K-Tar beat me to the punch. SO instead I will give his statement the QFT.
From someone who has played the KDF almost exclusively, this is how I understand the KDF content cut.
February 24th, 2011 - Dstahl: "The KDF is getting pretty much a big overhaul of early content." AND: "As far as Kerrat and KDF content in general, the big update is coming with the launch of Season 4."
March 25th, 2011 - Dstahl: "More than half of the team is working on Klingon content for Season 4 at the moment, so I can assure that I remain committed to improving the KDF faction and have done so with every release."
April 11th, 2011 - Dan Stahl said, in an interview on STOked episode 77: "So in general, in addition to making more ships and just having more costume options for Klingons we think that anyone who's been sort of holding off on creating a Klingon because they didn't want to play PvP we think in Season 4 it's gonna be that's the time that you want to create a Klingon and we're going to have a path for you to get to higher levels."
September 9th, 2011 - ASK CRYPTIC: "it does open up the opportunity to create a Romulan faction that also starts at higher level, but the goal is to have all factions be on equal ground."
All of which are real quotes, links to which can be found by clicking the Picture in my signature.
I'm not too sure if you REALLY want to know how I feel about all that though....
Well, well, well, you Klingon's have come out in droves to prey upon the bones of poor Triangulum_phoenix. I am shocked at the sarcasm and innuendo you throw at every opportunity. You dare to mention Kirks name when his only son was gunned down by those respectable Klingons? Honor bound murderers worried about Federation technology concerning the genesis project. Why are fierce Klingons so insecure? Is this honorable? I warp into the last space part of Cure and guess who the boss is? An assimulated Borg Klingon ship. You speak of undine infiltration while during the Diplomatic Orders mission ambassador Sokketh was exposed as an undine, turns into a Klingon, and issues orders and the Klingon warriors who have noses for undine infiltrations were completely fooled. Where is this undine now? And what about Bvat who wants to use the Doomsday Machine to further his own lust for blood? Im sure he will get many Klingons to serve under him. So as you can see I am right when I point out that Klingon honor is used as a means to crush, kill, and destroy. The federation respects Klingon territory or your planet would be a burned out cinder.
Kruge and B'Vat are not good representatives for the Klingon race. They, like the Duras clan, are honorless p'taks that give them a bad name. As for the assimilated Klingon ship, hold the bloody BORG responsible, not the Klingons. Again, I see nothing but ignorance about Trek lore or you would know that most Klingons (at least in the 24th century) are allies of the Federation. I never liked the dissolution of the Khitomer Accords in the game lore as it didn't fit with what we came to know of them.
We're not "preying on your bones". We're trying to enlighten you to what it truly means to be Klingon.
Hm, are you really a Trekkie? Kirk's son wasn't gunned down, he was stabbed when he defended Saavik, a good warrior's death. And the trend of taking hostages, the augment virus originally introduced with its human DNA is thank Kahless mostly gone.
If you start blaming the Klingons for what assimilated Klingons do I have to remind you of Locutus of Borg. I guess you can't stand Picard now. It must be an atrocity for you that he not only kept his command after being deassimilated but also became an ambassador later in life.
The Klingons told you what Sokketh was. They don't have "noses" for that, but they have better intel than the Federation. That doesn't mean that they will instantly shoot everybody who gives them a reasonable command. Everything could have been so easy if you had trusted them and handed him over, he never could have fooled anybody ever again.... Well, he can't now either since his ship was destroyed, but it costed a lot more Vulcan and Klingon lives.
I see your General B'vat and raise you a Luther Sloan and an Admiral Cartwright. There are always crazy nutjobs who are willing to commit atrocities in the name of what they think is right. B'vat is dead and no one mourns the wicked.
Couldn't have stated it better myself...and I tried.
Yes, Would the Klingons send out diplomats to secure a protection treaty? wheres the honor in that? wheres is the Klingon diplomatic corp? they don't do that because they'd rather rob and kill. You see it's just not interesting enough after the blade of Kahless and gates of Gre'thor what else is there? If you want to make something up the foundry can help you other than that .... what? The federation grows because it help races not harms them like the Natzi.
My outrage over your words knows no bounds...
You have no understanding whatsoever what it means to be Klingon. And I find you comparing Klingons to TRIBBLE extremely offensive.
The Klingons are NOT robbers and killers.
There is no honor in mindless killing.
I would link many Klingon sites here, but that would probably get me an infraction.
You have reflected your level of knowledge and intelligence of the ST world in your posting.
And I'm simply not going to debate your "wisdom" here.
Well, well, well, you Klingon's have come out in droves to prey upon the bones of poor Triangulum_phoenix.
Just because you're wrong doesn't make you persecuted. When we pick on you for something beyond your control, then you can play the pity card. You started this thread attacking KDF players and the KDF in general, live with the consequences of your actions.
I am shocked at the sarcasm and innuendo you throw at every opportunity. You dare to mention Kirks name when his only son was gunned down by those respectable Klingons?
We have simply corrected you, no sarcasm or innuendo has been used. Kirk had the option of turning over all the information on Genesis and saving all the hostages, he chose to allow one of them to die, and David, as foolish as his father, chose to attempt resistance and escape. Kirk and David were fools, and that is what got David killed.
Honor bound murderers worried about Federation technology concerning the genesis project. Why are fierce Klingons so insecure? Is this honorable?
Was it honorable for the US to have worried about the USSR building a nuclear arsenal? Is it honorable for a government to spy on it's enemies as they attempt the same? Of course it is. Any action taken to preserve lives, and prevent your enemies from gaining a technology that can be perverted into a weapon of mass destruction, is honorable.
Or I guess you would have preferred the Empire rest on it's laurels while Starfleet Admirals like Cartwright got their hands on Genesis torpedoes. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction) is a perfectly honorable and valid tactic, to gain equal weaponry to ones enemy, in order to preserve the balance, and thus, the peace.
You speak of undine infiltration while during the Diplomatic Orders mission ambassador Sokketh was exposed as an undine, turns into a Klingon, and issues orders and the Klingon warriors who have noses for undine infiltrations were completely fooled.
Klingons are Klingons, not bloodhounds, not Tricorders. If Klingons had been responsible for picking him up, he would have had his hand slit and his blood tested before ever setting foot on a Klingon ship. You ferried him halfway across the Vulcan sector!
And what about Bvat who wants to use the Doomsday Machine to further his own lust for blood? Im sure he will get many Klingons to serve under him.
Didn't you notice? When that Undine took Klingon form, he was B'Vat. The same B'Vat who kidnapped Mirel Paris, the same B'Vat who travelled back in time. The same B'Vat that was killed in the 23rd century.
What happened to the original B'Vat? We don't know, we don't have the KDF content that deals with that yet. And if it was up to you, we would never get it. Thankfully, it's not up to you.
So as you can see I am right when I point out that Klingon honor is used as a means to crush, kill, and destroy.
No, your false and misguided understanding of Klingon Honor is used by you as an excuse to impugn the Empire and deride Klingons with slanderous false accusations.
Until you actually understand what Honor is, and how it influences the Empire, you have no right to speak on the subject.
You're like a child discussing sex. You know it exists, you know it's important, but you have no idea what you're talking about and think it's all icky.
when you Klingon's are overtaken by Borg, invaded by undine, and annililated by house wars the Federation will swoop in as always and save your butts and still won't occupy your home world. Hows that for honor?
In the original television series (TOS), Klingons were typically portrayed with bronze skin and facial hair suggestive of Asian peoples, and possessed physical abilities similar to humans. The swarthy look of Klingon males was created with the application of shoe polish and long, thin moustaches; budget constraints would not allow any further creativity. The overall look of the aliens, played by white actors, suggested orientalism, at a time when memories of Japanese actions during World War II were still fresh.
The Klingons took on the role of the Soviet Union in opposition to the United States' future counterpart, the United Federation of Planets. As such, they were generally portrayed as inferior to the crew of the Enterprise. While occasionally capable of honor, this depiction treated the Klingons as close to wild animals.
For Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the Klingons were re-conned and their appearance and behavior radically changed. To give the aliens a more sophisticated and threatening demeanor, the Klingons were depicted with ridged foreheads, snaggled and prominent teeth, and a defined language and alphabet. Costume designer Robert Fletcher created new uniforms for the Klingons, reminiscent of feudal Japanese armor. The release of a new television series, Star Trek: The Next Generation, prompted a further revision in the depiction of Klingon culture, though Gene Roddenberry had wanted to avoid re-appearances of races from the old series. Set a century later than the original series, the USS Enterprise-D featured a Klingon crewmember, Worf. The culture of the Klingons began to resemble revised western stereotypes of civilizations such as the Zulu, the Vikings, and various Native American nations as a proud, warlike and principled race. Whereas the TOS Klingons served as an allegory to contemporary totalitarian regimes.
The Next Generation Klingons held principles more in line with Bushidō; actor Michael Dorn stated that without the revision in Klingon culture, his character, Worf, would not have been a Starfleet officer. The final Star Trek film to feature the entire cast from the original television series, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991) served to bridge the original series Klingons at war with the
Federation to the time of The Next Generation, and presents a subtly different treatment of the race. At the time of the film's development, the Soviet Union was collapsing, and with the advent of glasnost the old allegory of Klingons as Russians was becoming obsolete. The Klingons were redesigned to evoke the TRIBBLE, with the red, white and black Klingon flag deliberately similar to that of the National Socialist German Workers Party. The Klingons in the film liberally quote Shakespeare, a trait stemming from director Nicholas Meyer's comparison of the Empire's appropriation of Shakespeare to the TRIBBLE' similar attempt in the 1930s.
References to Klingon as savage beastly wild anamals proven.
References to Klingons resembling TRIBBLE proven.
The honor you speak of was given to the Klingon much later therefore its going to take time for the federation to forgive the Klingons beastly TRIBBLE past. I hope through this series of Ops that you understand exactly who youre dealing with. I will answer all of your baseless rhetorical railings with well thought out lecture ---trangulum_phoenix, Star trek historian.
wow, animosity almost. I came in to read the words, not swim through the tension lol.
on a Personal note, i see what the OP was saying. The show was heavily Federation Based. It showed things from a perspective of Feds good, Klingons bad. That is until DS9 Came in and made it less black and white and more BAD ***!!!!..... i mean.... uh.... shades of grey. From a Star Trek Stand point it IS possible that there was indeed more of a push from the studios to have better federation content from the start. BUT from the MMO aspect, they DID label it as it's own faction which Implies that it would be equal to the primary faction.
I don't see the need to pick on any one or be rude or try and prove who is the right or wrong parties. Cryptic is working to bring the Two factions closer together, why can't the forums. Just be nice to the Devs over lack of Klingon Content, they ARE working on it. They have the technology.... they can make it stronger, faster, better...... and possibly for much less than 6 million dollars.
Now that all the hippie TRIBBLE is outta the way, i only play KDF for the ships, and the only reason one of them is a klink is because Cryptic Hates assimiating Gorn or Orions......
Okay, you want to quote mine Wikipedia? Lets go further than the sections you cherry picked, shall we?
As to changing Klingon appearances:
A canonical explanation for the change was given in a two-part storyline on Star Trek: Enterprise. The two episodes, "Affliction" and "Divergence", aired in February 2005. An earlier story arc featured the Augments, genetically-engineered humans left over from the Eugenics Wars of the late 20th century, and who were defeated by Captain Jonathan Archer and the Enterprise in Klingon space. The Klingon High Council fears that Starfleet was developing armies of Augments; after gaining access to genetic material from the Augments, the Klingons perform experiments to increase their own intellect and strength. The experiments turn disastrous when a flu strain mutates and becomes a deadly plague that spreads across the Empire, causing physical changes resulting in the afflicted bearing a TOS-era appearance. Dr. Phlox of the Enterprise formulates a cure for the virus, but the physical alterations remain in the populace and are inherited by offspring. Phlox indicated that "someday" the physical alterations could be reversed.
Honor:
In comparison to The Original Series, Klingon culture is thoroughly examined in later series episodes, part of a larger movement by Star Trek writers to deepen viewer understanding of the alien races of the franchise. The Klingons adhere to a strict code of honor, similar to feudal Japanese customs. Their society is based on war and combat; ritual suicide is often preferred over living life as a crippled warrior, and may allow a warrior to die with honor. To be captured rather than killed in battle brings dishonor to not only the captive but his descendants. Death is depicted as a time for celebration, not grief.
Klingons are depicted as a spiritual people. According to their legends, Klingons slew their own gods. The equivalents to heaven and hell are called Sto-Vo-Kor and Gre'Thor, respectively; in Sto-Vo-Kor, battle and feasting can be eternally won and shared, while those sent to Gre'Thor are condemned to eternal torture unless their honor is restored by living relatives. Those who do not die in battle may not enter Sto-Vo-Kor; relatives undertake quests to guarantee their deceased comrades entry into paradise. Despite believing in an afterlife, the Klingons perform no burial rites, and dispose of corpses by the most efficient means.
The Klingon's spiritual leader is Kahless, a messianic figure who established early codes of honor and was the first Klingon emperor. His fabled weapon, the Sword of Kahless, is depicted as a unique bat'leth that serves as the Klingon equivalent of the Holy Grail. In the TNG episode "Rightful Heir", Kahless appears in the flesh to Worf, who had doubted his Klingon faith. This Kahless is revealed to be a clone, created in an attempt to bring Klingons together, and who is chosen to lead the Klingon people as a figurehead.
And from memory alpha:
Klingon philosophy is most notably a warrior's philosophy. A Klingon's moral goal is the achievement of honor, mostly through battle. This is comparable to the Earth-based martial philosophy of such countries as China, India and Japan, although with significant differences. Klingons also have a complex religious philosophy upon which their martial philosophy is based. The most notable contributer to this system was Kahless himself. The Klingon oath of 'sacrifice, strength, duty' displays the three primary qualities that are valued above all else within Klingon warrior society.
You have to understand, just because a culture is different, doesn't make it inferior.
In fact, I would say that if it hadn't been for the Klingon culture, and it's dedication to battle-readiness and battle prowess, the Federation would have been destroyed by the Dominion.
But you know what, all of this is actually a moot point. In spite of the history of the production of Klingons, in spite of the depictions of Klingons, the Klingons have, in TNG, DS9, and even in Voyager and Enterprise (that's four out of five series, by the way), been established as a proud, thriving culture, worthy of respect. That history, not your biased attitude, is the basis for the depiction of the Empire in this game. It is that canon, that the KDF is grown out of. And all your anti-KDF attitude won't change it.
Face it, the KDF is here to stay, and it's only going to get better for them from here on out. By which I mean, you can hate the Klingons all you want, you can cling to the depictions from TOS & the first few TOS crew films, feel free, go right ahead, we won't stop you. Nobody is forcing you to roll a KDF alt.
But, don't assume that means you'll get your way. KDF content is coming, full content, meaningful content, content based on the more thorough understanding of Klingon culture given us by the vast majority of Star Trek.
weren't the Romulans biding their time because the klingons and feds were in the way? Had the Klingons not Stepped up like they did, wouldn't the Romulans have stepped in sooner to keep from being over taken themselves? Also you seem to forget that the Federation had Howling Mad Murdock as well as Sir Patrick Stewart and friends to deal with them. As great as DS9 was, the enterprise crew could have ended it faster and with less death. Heck, DS9 even had to have a few people FROM enterprise to deal with the dominion. With out Worf or O'Brien or having to turn to "dieties" the feds still Had their A-team off doing other things. the Klingons were there just to spice it up a little.
Just be nice to the Devs over lack of Klingon Content
Given that at least one developer, whose job also happens to be producing content,has alluded to the definition of content as being debatable, I find it rather difficult to be nice to anyone as I am still suffering from a migraine trying to wrap my brain around the whole thing.
As much as I hate to admit it, the OP may very well understand the reason behind cutting KDF content more than we realize right now.
When they introduce the romulans at lvl 25 ill be dancing in my shoes.
But look at it realistically-given the last 18 months of aiming to get the KDF on equal ground with the Federation, what kind of half-hearted attempt at a Romulan faction should we expect?
I just...I just can't handle the OP anymore. His (or her...gotta cover all my bases in this thread ) close-mindedness and unwillingness to see the Klingons from a non-TOS perspective has me drained. You win. I yield. All of your evidence is true. Wikipedia never lies. :rolleyes:
With the sarcasm dripping from the blade of my d'k tahg, I will say one thing. The ONLY thing that I agree with is that the shows were never focused on anything more than the Federation. The Klingons and Romulans and Cardassians and what-have-you were more of a side-story. That doesn't mean that these races are any less important to Trek lore.
And I say that, despite my fears towards the future of the faction, that I truly hope that they finally deliver the full leveling experience that they are promising. You can keep your sterile Federation. I'll be busy earning my way into Sto-Vo-Kor.
copying text from wikipedia does not make you a start trek historian.
No, but taking the information and reapplying it to this forum thread to answer my critics is justified. I have proven them all wrong. The Klingons have changed and all of those changes must be noted. You claim to understand what being Klingon is, then why do I have to explain your history to you.:p
Actually I have to agree with the basic statement of the op (although he/she forgot to mention the Voyager, DS9 and the Defaint).
But IF you introduce the Klingons as an independet faction then it HAS to have full content. I still thing the Klingons should be kind of a sub faction, with some exclusives and may be (to set them really appart from feds instead just visually like it is now) own character classes and BO abilitys... but same content wich can be done together as an federation allied.
Would have been better for ALL.
But Cryptic didnt go that way, they wantet an own indipendent faction, now they have to stick with it. And that means equal content.
This is the second time I noticed the he/she is the forum thread you men just can't take the fact the the picture you see could possibly be a woman of some substance having both beauty and brians. Why does intelligence in beauty bring out your base pigness? Just read and answer to me thats all I ask. Wondering if I am male or female is moot.
No, but taking the information and reapplying it to this forum thread to answer my critics is justified. I have proven them all wrong. The Klingons have changed and all of those changes must be noted. You claim to understand what being Klingon is, then why do I have to explain your history to you.:p
You're not explaining the history of the Klingons, you've explained the history of Klingons in Star Trek production terms. That is, the history of real world make-up and depiction mannerisms. You have not proved anything but a willingness to ignore the canon storyline (which determines how the Klingons are going to be depicted in STO) in favor of the production values.
And you only take into account the ones from TOS and the TOS crew movies at that. You ignore the canon developments made in TNG, you ignore the canon developments made in DS9, you ignore the canon developments made in Voyager, you ignore the canon developments made in Enterprise.
Star Trek, and most especially our understanding of the Klingons, comes from more than just the original series. It has moved beyond it, grown, and been made all the better for it. You focus on the Duras', on the failings of Gowron, on the plots and intrigue.. Need I remind you (again) of Captain Maxwell? Of Admiral Cartwright? Of Admiral Leyton? Of Lt.Com Hudson? Of Micheal Eddington? Of Lt. Ro? Of Captain Ransom?
You want to take this real world? How about the ridiculously common literary practice of showing characters at their worst so as to contrast with the upstanding characters to make them even more poignant? How do we know that wasn't the intent? Show Kang as ruthless and violent to be contrasted against Mara, who united with Kirk to end hostilities aboard the Enterprise in Day of the Dove?
Whats more, if we really want to take a step back and look at things, we can.
Imagine, for just a second, that every Star Trek episode and movie, are actually the recollections of the individuals who "experienced" them. That would make all of TOS a recollection of the TOS crew, a crew with little to no understanding of Klingon culture, history, or philosophy.
It's like looking (to use your poignant example) at the Japanese or the USSR through the biased lens of post-WWII paranoia, ignorant of Japanese feudal History or the role of the Emperor or Bushido in their culture, ignorant of the history of Russia under the Czars and the conflict between the Aristocracies and Plutocrats that engendered the rise of Communism in that country..
It's looking through a dirty, warped lens, and believing it to be clear as crystal.
Let me put it this way, people in the Federation value security, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value honesty, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value their families, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value life, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value history, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value the arts, so do Klingons.
They are more alike then they are different, but you refuse to acknowledge that.
The primary difference? The Federation value certain methods of attaining their goals, diplomacy, cooperation, negotiation, research.. The Empire believes in a more.. Competitive market approach. the strong survive, the effective method is the one that attains results quickly and efficiently, not necessarily the one that is the most peaceful.
Wait, you are applying the sex card? They are not intelligent women if they do not agree with you ad hock? How low will you stoop in this? That is nothing more than blase character assassination.
How about despite them being the same sex as you, like most people they have their own unique opinions based on their own unique life experiences?
This is a conversation about the cultural viability of a fictional race, and weather or not that fictional race deserves more content based on it's fans. It is not a I am woman hear me roar rant. Sex has nothing to do with it at all.
This is the second time I noticed the he/she is the forum thread you men just can't take the fact the the picture you see could possibly be a woman of some substance having both beauty and brians. Why does intelligence in beauty bring out your base pigness? Just read and answer to me thats all I ask. Wondering if I am male or female is moot.
If you were a real girl you would research my argument and agree with me. I don't think you are. Agreeing with the men doesn't make you a real woman its makes you typical not above ;)average as I am.
So.. We disagree with you because you might be a woman? Wow.. That's just grasping at straws there. And the "above average" comment? Sorry, you're not, you're just another poster in the forums, no more, no less. And the accusation that I've taken my position because some of the other posters are likely to be men? Totally off base (not to mention insulting).
Don't believe me? My posts are an open book. Go through them. I am very pro-KDF, always have been, regardless of the attitudes of the other posters. I would highly recommend the posts I've linked in my signature. Go read them, and their place in the threads they were made in.
I disagree with you because you're ignoring more than 90% of Star Trek canon, and are thus grossly misinformed about the Klingon culture, not because of any desire for popularity.
As our world has changed so has the star trek world from the Cold War to Terrorism to now. Klingon culture being fully fleshed now having substance and meaning is a good thing I don't question this. But this change is due to Federation contacts. Kirk receive great warrior status among the klingons you know this. Through him the federation and it's captains gained respect. Worf tried to make the Klingons more human like and concider each klingoon life as something precious not to be thrown away at the whim of honor. B'Elanna's child, Miral, became the kuvah'magh destined to lead the Klingon to glory. A Human/Klingon hybrid? You really believe she will do this through the conquest of the quadrant? The Klingons are destined to change once again, honor will not be tied to blood, houses will not fight oneanother but support one another and yes the name will change to United Klingon, Gorn, Hirogen, nausssicaan, and Orion alliance. I call it the United Alliance of the KGHNO. Sounds Klingon dosen't it. I have five Feds and Three Klingon all maxed out. Let there be peace.:)
As our world has changed so has the star trek world from the Cold War to Terrorism to now. Klingon culture being fully fleshed now having substance and meaning is a good thing I don't question this. But this change is due to Federation contacts. Kirk receive great warrior status among the klingons you know this. Through him the federation and it's captains gained respect. Worf tried to make the Klingons more human like and concider each klingoon life as something precious not to be thrown away at the whim of honor. B'Elanna's child, Miral, became the kuvah'magh destined to lead the Klingon to glory. A Human/Klingon hybrid? You really believe she will do this through the conquest of the quadrant? The Klingons are destined to change once again, honor will not be tied to blood, houses will not fight oneanother but support one another and yes the name will change to United Klingon, Gorn, Hirogen, nausssicaan, and Orion alliance. I call it the United Alliance of the KGHNO. Sounds Klingon dosen't it. I have five Feds and Three Klingon all maxed out. Let there be peace.:)
Umm the way the Klingon are portrayed in Enterprise is about the same as they are portrayed in DS9. It is not the Feds that made the changes. It is the writers who have brought all the changes.
As our world has changed so has the star trek world from the Cold War to Terrorism to now. Klingon culture being fully fleshed now having substance and meaning is a good thing I don't question this. But this change is due to Federation contacts. Kirk receive great warrior status among the klingons you know this. Through him the federation and it's captains gained respect. Worf tried to make the Klingons more human like and concider each klingoon life as something precious not to be thrown away at the whim of honor. B'Elanna's child, Miral, became the kuvah'magh destined to lead the Klingon to glory. A Human/Klingon hybrid? You really believe she will do this through the conquest of the quadrant? The Klingons are destined to change once again, honor will not be tied to blood, houses will not fight oneanother but support one another and yes the name will change to United Klingon, Gorn, Hirogen, nausssicaan, and Orion alliance. I call it the United Alliance of the KGHNO. Sounds Klingon dosen't it. I have five Feds and Three Klingon all maxed out. Let there be peace.:)
Each world that joins the Federation is allowed to retain their culture.
The Empire is different. Worlds don't "join" the empire, they are conquered, or swear fealty, or ally with the Empire. Each world must pay homage and respect to the Empire, the Klingon Empire. And the Empire is run by Klingons. There are no Gorn, Orion, Nausicaans, or Letheans on the High Council.
{The Empire is different. Worlds don't "join" the empire, they are conquered, or swear fealty, or ally with the Empire. Each world must pay homage and respect to the Empire, the Klingon Empire. And the Empire is run by Klingons. There are no Gorn, Orion, Nausicaans, or Letheans on the High Council.}
I said the Klingons will change and you have just proven in your own word why this must be. You have proven why the Federation will never change because it perfect and dosen't need to ... while you klingons need to stop conquering and stomping on the feelings and culture of other worlds. You have proven that if a world wanted freedom they would ask the Federation. You have proven that worlds under Klingon domination would seek out the Federation and that over time the Klingon Empire would be reduced to only klingons and then your houses would tear the rest of it apart. The blind are destined to lead the blind and you are one of them.
{The Empire is different. Worlds don't "join" the empire, they are conquered, or swear fealty, or ally with the Empire. Each world must pay homage and respect to the Empire, the Klingon Empire. And the Empire is run by Klingons. There are no Gorn, Orion, Nausicaans, or Letheans on the High Council.}
I said the Klingons will change and you have just proven in your own word why this must be. You have proven why the Federation will never change because it perfect and dosen't need to ... while you klingons need to stop conquering and stomping on the feelings and culture of other worlds. You have proven that if a world wanted freedom they would ask the Federation. You have proven that worlds under Klingon domination would seek out the Federation and that over time the Klingon Empire would be reduced to only klingons and then your houses would tear the rest of it apart. The blind are destined to lead the blind and you are one of them.
I can think of another organization that nations must apply to join that is pretty corrupt... The United Nations.
I said the Klingons will change and you have just proven in your own word why this must be. You have proven why the Federation will never change because it perfect and dosen't need to ... while you klingons need to stop conquering and stomping on the feelings and culture of other worlds. You have proven that if a world wanted freedom they would ask the Federation. You have proven that worlds under Klingon domination would seek out the Federation and that over time the Klingon Empire would be reduced to only klingons and then your houses would tear the rest of it apart. The blind are destined to lead the blind and you are one of them.
Whoa whoa whoa.. The Federation is way off on the other side of the galaxy from perfect. Also, have not read the path to 2409? Really, I mean that as a question, have you? It's here in case you haven't. Read the full log entries, it might educate you on why the Federation and the Klingons are at war. Here's a hint: Federation pacifism in the face of a serious threat, just like with the Cardassians and the Dominion.
It also describes exactly what kinds of problems the Federation has, did you know it took more than a decade just for the Doctor (from Voyager) to get the rights to keep his portable Emitter? and that even then he had to agree to a posting at an engineering station so starfleet could study it and reverse engineer it? That he had to fight a Court Case all the way to the Federation Supreme Court just to have the right to contest it in the first place?
The Federation is not perfect, it is so blinded by dedication to the letter of the law that it fails to recognize sentience when it stares them in the face, and it's too devoted to peace to defend itself when it's attacked!
They're infiltrated by Undine, and they refuse to fight. the Borg invade Gamma Orionis, and they refuse to fight. The true Way blatantly steals military equipment in violation of the treaty that ended the Dominion war, and they refuse to fight. The Dominion sends Changelings through the Wormhole who join up with Las and lead the Alpha Jem'Hadar, and they refuse to fight.
Wake up and smell the Raktajino! The Klingons are right! This is not the time for debate and diplomacy, it is time to defend the Alpha Quadrant from the influence of forces seeking it's destruction!
Wow, this threads still open? Between Triangulum_Phoenix's outright trolling and Katic's creative reimagining of the Road to 2409 I'd have assumed a mod would have killed this by now.
This is the second time I noticed the he/she is the forum thread you men just can't take the fact the the picture you see could possibly be a woman of some substance having both beauty and brians. Why does intelligence in beauty bring out your base pigness? Just read and answer to me thats all I ask. Wondering if I am male or female is moot.
I'm still failing to see either in this wikipedia copy/paste fest going on in here. However, I could use a sammich now. Get to it you Federation dog.........
Wow, this threads still open? Between Triangulum_Phoenix's outright trolling and Katic's creative reimagining of the Road to 2409 I'd have assumed a mod would have killed this by now.
Comments
I only have three Klingon toons. All are LtG but only three. I have ten Feds Three VAs, two RAUH, one RALH, one Captain and the rest are LtCs. You should be considerate of how you throw your innuendo as well. Here I stand against you. In the future you may see we stand side by side. It would be a boon to your credibility to remember we are all a community, irregardless of faction, joined by this game and our interest for Star Trek.
Seems K-Tar beat me to the punch. SO instead I will give his statement the QFT.
February 24th, 2011 - Dstahl: "The KDF is getting pretty much a big overhaul of early content." AND: "As far as Kerrat and KDF content in general, the big update is coming with the launch of Season 4."
March 25th, 2011 - Dstahl: "More than half of the team is working on Klingon content for Season 4 at the moment, so I can assure that I remain committed to improving the KDF faction and have done so with every release."
April 11th, 2011 - Dan Stahl said, in an interview on STOked episode 77: "So in general, in addition to making more ships and just having more costume options for Klingons we think that anyone who's been sort of holding off on creating a Klingon because they didn't want to play PvP we think in Season 4 it's gonna be that's the time that you want to create a Klingon and we're going to have a path for you to get to higher levels."
September 9th, 2011 - ASK CRYPTIC: "it does open up the opportunity to create a Romulan faction that also starts at higher level, but the goal is to have all factions be on equal ground."
All of which are real quotes, links to which can be found by clicking the Picture in my signature.
I'm not too sure if you REALLY want to know how I feel about all that though....
Kruge and B'Vat are not good representatives for the Klingon race. They, like the Duras clan, are honorless p'taks that give them a bad name. As for the assimilated Klingon ship, hold the bloody BORG responsible, not the Klingons. Again, I see nothing but ignorance about Trek lore or you would know that most Klingons (at least in the 24th century) are allies of the Federation. I never liked the dissolution of the Khitomer Accords in the game lore as it didn't fit with what we came to know of them.
We're not "preying on your bones". We're trying to enlighten you to what it truly means to be Klingon.
Couldn't have stated it better myself...and I tried.
My outrage over your words knows no bounds...
You have no understanding whatsoever what it means to be Klingon.
And I find you comparing Klingons to TRIBBLE extremely offensive.
The Klingons are NOT robbers and killers.
There is no honor in mindless killing.
I would link many Klingon sites here, but that would probably get me an infraction.
You have reflected your level of knowledge and intelligence of the ST world in your posting.
And I'm simply not going to debate your "wisdom" here.
Ditto.
Espescially when you consider Spock, McCoy, and Kirk have all Cosplayed as TRIBBLE.
You can't argue with Canon, right?
Just because you're wrong doesn't make you persecuted. When we pick on you for something beyond your control, then you can play the pity card. You started this thread attacking KDF players and the KDF in general, live with the consequences of your actions.
We have simply corrected you, no sarcasm or innuendo has been used. Kirk had the option of turning over all the information on Genesis and saving all the hostages, he chose to allow one of them to die, and David, as foolish as his father, chose to attempt resistance and escape. Kirk and David were fools, and that is what got David killed.
Was it honorable for the US to have worried about the USSR building a nuclear arsenal? Is it honorable for a government to spy on it's enemies as they attempt the same? Of course it is. Any action taken to preserve lives, and prevent your enemies from gaining a technology that can be perverted into a weapon of mass destruction, is honorable.
Or I guess you would have preferred the Empire rest on it's laurels while Starfleet Admirals like Cartwright got their hands on Genesis torpedoes. M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction) is a perfectly honorable and valid tactic, to gain equal weaponry to ones enemy, in order to preserve the balance, and thus, the peace.
And? Go talk to the queen, not our fault, not our problem.
Klingons are Klingons, not bloodhounds, not Tricorders. If Klingons had been responsible for picking him up, he would have had his hand slit and his blood tested before ever setting foot on a Klingon ship. You ferried him halfway across the Vulcan sector!
Heh.. Hehehehe.. Keep reading.
Didn't you notice? When that Undine took Klingon form, he was B'Vat. The same B'Vat who kidnapped Mirel Paris, the same B'Vat who travelled back in time. The same B'Vat that was killed in the 23rd century.
What happened to the original B'Vat? We don't know, we don't have the KDF content that deals with that yet. And if it was up to you, we would never get it. Thankfully, it's not up to you.
No, your false and misguided understanding of Klingon Honor is used by you as an excuse to impugn the Empire and deride Klingons with slanderous false accusations.
Until you actually understand what Honor is, and how it influences the Empire, you have no right to speak on the subject.
You're like a child discussing sex. You know it exists, you know it's important, but you have no idea what you're talking about and think it's all icky.
The Klingons took on the role of the Soviet Union in opposition to the United States' future counterpart, the United Federation of Planets. As such, they were generally portrayed as inferior to the crew of the Enterprise. While occasionally capable of honor, this depiction treated the Klingons as close to wild animals.
For Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the Klingons were re-conned and their appearance and behavior radically changed. To give the aliens a more sophisticated and threatening demeanor, the Klingons were depicted with ridged foreheads, snaggled and prominent teeth, and a defined language and alphabet. Costume designer Robert Fletcher created new uniforms for the Klingons, reminiscent of feudal Japanese armor. The release of a new television series, Star Trek: The Next Generation, prompted a further revision in the depiction of Klingon culture, though Gene Roddenberry had wanted to avoid re-appearances of races from the old series. Set a century later than the original series, the USS Enterprise-D featured a Klingon crewmember, Worf. The culture of the Klingons began to resemble revised western stereotypes of civilizations such as the Zulu, the Vikings, and various Native American nations as a proud, warlike and principled race. Whereas the TOS Klingons served as an allegory to contemporary totalitarian regimes.
The Next Generation Klingons held principles more in line with Bushidō; actor Michael Dorn stated that without the revision in Klingon culture, his character, Worf, would not have been a Starfleet officer. The final Star Trek film to feature the entire cast from the original television series, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (1991) served to bridge the original series Klingons at war with the
Federation to the time of The Next Generation, and presents a subtly different treatment of the race. At the time of the film's development, the Soviet Union was collapsing, and with the advent of glasnost the old allegory of Klingons as Russians was becoming obsolete. The Klingons were redesigned to evoke the TRIBBLE, with the red, white and black Klingon flag deliberately similar to that of the National Socialist German Workers Party. The Klingons in the film liberally quote Shakespeare, a trait stemming from director Nicholas Meyer's comparison of the Empire's appropriation of Shakespeare to the TRIBBLE' similar attempt in the 1930s.
References to Klingon as savage beastly wild anamals proven.
References to Klingons resembling TRIBBLE proven.
The honor you speak of was given to the Klingon much later therefore its going to take time for the federation to forgive the Klingons beastly TRIBBLE past. I hope through this series of Ops that you understand exactly who youre dealing with. I will answer all of your baseless rhetorical railings with well thought out lecture ---trangulum_phoenix, Star trek historian.
The ability to copy and paste text does not make anyone a historian, it makes you a plagiarist.
The entirety of your above post can be found in it's full, original form at wikipedia filed under 'Klingon".
on a Personal note, i see what the OP was saying. The show was heavily Federation Based. It showed things from a perspective of Feds good, Klingons bad. That is until DS9 Came in and made it less black and white and more BAD ***!!!!..... i mean.... uh.... shades of grey. From a Star Trek Stand point it IS possible that there was indeed more of a push from the studios to have better federation content from the start. BUT from the MMO aspect, they DID label it as it's own faction which Implies that it would be equal to the primary faction.
I don't see the need to pick on any one or be rude or try and prove who is the right or wrong parties. Cryptic is working to bring the Two factions closer together, why can't the forums. Just be nice to the Devs over lack of Klingon Content, they ARE working on it. They have the technology.... they can make it stronger, faster, better...... and possibly for much less than 6 million dollars.
Now that all the hippie TRIBBLE is outta the way, i only play KDF for the ships, and the only reason one of them is a klink is because Cryptic Hates assimiating Gorn or Orions......
As to changing Klingon appearances:
Honor:
And from memory alpha:
You have to understand, just because a culture is different, doesn't make it inferior.
In fact, I would say that if it hadn't been for the Klingon culture, and it's dedication to battle-readiness and battle prowess, the Federation would have been destroyed by the Dominion.
But you know what, all of this is actually a moot point. In spite of the history of the production of Klingons, in spite of the depictions of Klingons, the Klingons have, in TNG, DS9, and even in Voyager and Enterprise (that's four out of five series, by the way), been established as a proud, thriving culture, worthy of respect. That history, not your biased attitude, is the basis for the depiction of the Empire in this game. It is that canon, that the KDF is grown out of. And all your anti-KDF attitude won't change it.
Face it, the KDF is here to stay, and it's only going to get better for them from here on out. By which I mean, you can hate the Klingons all you want, you can cling to the depictions from TOS & the first few TOS crew films, feel free, go right ahead, we won't stop you. Nobody is forcing you to roll a KDF alt.
But, don't assume that means you'll get your way. KDF content is coming, full content, meaningful content, content based on the more thorough understanding of Klingon culture given us by the vast majority of Star Trek.
And you can't do anything about it.
Given that at least one developer, whose job also happens to be producing content,has alluded to the definition of content as being debatable, I find it rather difficult to be nice to anyone as I am still suffering from a migraine trying to wrap my brain around the whole thing.
As much as I hate to admit it, the OP may very well understand the reason behind cutting KDF content more than we realize right now.
September 9th, 2011 - ASK CRYPTIC: Daniel Stahl: "it does open up the opportunity to create a Romulan faction that also starts at higher level, but the goal is to have all factions be on equal ground."
But look at it realistically-given the last 18 months of aiming to get the KDF on equal ground with the Federation, what kind of half-hearted attempt at a Romulan faction should we expect?
I doubt they'll even have Cheerios at launch
With the sarcasm dripping from the blade of my d'k tahg, I will say one thing. The ONLY thing that I agree with is that the shows were never focused on anything more than the Federation. The Klingons and Romulans and Cardassians and what-have-you were more of a side-story. That doesn't mean that these races are any less important to Trek lore.
And I say that, despite my fears towards the future of the faction, that I truly hope that they finally deliver the full leveling experience that they are promising. You can keep your sterile Federation. I'll be busy earning my way into Sto-Vo-Kor.
Q'apla!
No, but taking the information and reapplying it to this forum thread to answer my critics is justified. I have proven them all wrong. The Klingons have changed and all of those changes must be noted. You claim to understand what being Klingon is, then why do I have to explain your history to you.:p
This is the second time I noticed the he/she is the forum thread you men just can't take the fact the the picture you see could possibly be a woman of some substance having both beauty and brians. Why does intelligence in beauty bring out your base pigness?
You're not explaining the history of the Klingons, you've explained the history of Klingons in Star Trek production terms. That is, the history of real world make-up and depiction mannerisms. You have not proved anything but a willingness to ignore the canon storyline (which determines how the Klingons are going to be depicted in STO) in favor of the production values.
And you only take into account the ones from TOS and the TOS crew movies at that. You ignore the canon developments made in TNG, you ignore the canon developments made in DS9, you ignore the canon developments made in Voyager, you ignore the canon developments made in Enterprise.
Star Trek, and most especially our understanding of the Klingons, comes from more than just the original series. It has moved beyond it, grown, and been made all the better for it. You focus on the Duras', on the failings of Gowron, on the plots and intrigue.. Need I remind you (again) of Captain Maxwell? Of Admiral Cartwright? Of Admiral Leyton? Of Lt.Com Hudson? Of Micheal Eddington? Of Lt. Ro? Of Captain Ransom?
You want to take this real world? How about the ridiculously common literary practice of showing characters at their worst so as to contrast with the upstanding characters to make them even more poignant? How do we know that wasn't the intent? Show Kang as ruthless and violent to be contrasted against Mara, who united with Kirk to end hostilities aboard the Enterprise in Day of the Dove?
Whats more, if we really want to take a step back and look at things, we can.
Imagine, for just a second, that every Star Trek episode and movie, are actually the recollections of the individuals who "experienced" them. That would make all of TOS a recollection of the TOS crew, a crew with little to no understanding of Klingon culture, history, or philosophy.
It's like looking (to use your poignant example) at the Japanese or the USSR through the biased lens of post-WWII paranoia, ignorant of Japanese feudal History or the role of the Emperor or Bushido in their culture, ignorant of the history of Russia under the Czars and the conflict between the Aristocracies and Plutocrats that engendered the rise of Communism in that country..
It's looking through a dirty, warped lens, and believing it to be clear as crystal.
Let me put it this way, people in the Federation value security, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value honesty, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value their families, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value life, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value history, so do Klingons. People in the Federation value the arts, so do Klingons.
They are more alike then they are different, but you refuse to acknowledge that.
The primary difference? The Federation value certain methods of attaining their goals, diplomacy, cooperation, negotiation, research.. The Empire believes in a more.. Competitive market approach. the strong survive, the effective method is the one that attains results quickly and efficiently, not necessarily the one that is the most peaceful.
How about despite them being the same sex as you, like most people they have their own unique opinions based on their own unique life experiences?
This is a conversation about the cultural viability of a fictional race, and weather or not that fictional race deserves more content based on it's fans. It is not a I am woman hear me roar rant. Sex has nothing to do with it at all.
So.. We disagree with you because you might be a woman? Wow.. That's just grasping at straws there. And the "above average" comment? Sorry, you're not, you're just another poster in the forums, no more, no less. And the accusation that I've taken my position because some of the other posters are likely to be men? Totally off base (not to mention insulting).
Don't believe me? My posts are an open book. Go through them. I am very pro-KDF, always have been, regardless of the attitudes of the other posters. I would highly recommend the posts I've linked in my signature. Go read them, and their place in the threads they were made in.
I disagree with you because you're ignoring more than 90% of Star Trek canon, and are thus grossly misinformed about the Klingon culture, not because of any desire for popularity.
Umm the way the Klingon are portrayed in Enterprise is about the same as they are portrayed in DS9. It is not the Feds that made the changes. It is the writers who have brought all the changes.
Each world that joins the Federation is allowed to retain their culture.
The Empire is different. Worlds don't "join" the empire, they are conquered, or swear fealty, or ally with the Empire. Each world must pay homage and respect to the Empire, the Klingon Empire. And the Empire is run by Klingons. There are no Gorn, Orion, Nausicaans, or Letheans on the High Council.
I said the Klingons will change and you have just proven in your own word why this must be. You have proven why the Federation will never change because it perfect and dosen't need to ... while you klingons need to stop conquering and stomping on the feelings and culture of other worlds. You have proven that if a world wanted freedom they would ask the Federation. You have proven that worlds under Klingon domination would seek out the Federation and that over time the Klingon Empire would be reduced to only klingons and then your houses would tear the rest of it apart. The blind are destined to lead the blind and you are one of them.
I can think of another organization that nations must apply to join that is pretty corrupt... The United Nations.
Whoa whoa whoa.. The Federation is way off on the other side of the galaxy from perfect. Also, have not read the path to 2409? Really, I mean that as a question, have you? It's here in case you haven't. Read the full log entries, it might educate you on why the Federation and the Klingons are at war. Here's a hint: Federation pacifism in the face of a serious threat, just like with the Cardassians and the Dominion.
It also describes exactly what kinds of problems the Federation has, did you know it took more than a decade just for the Doctor (from Voyager) to get the rights to keep his portable Emitter? and that even then he had to agree to a posting at an engineering station so starfleet could study it and reverse engineer it? That he had to fight a Court Case all the way to the Federation Supreme Court just to have the right to contest it in the first place?
The Federation is not perfect, it is so blinded by dedication to the letter of the law that it fails to recognize sentience when it stares them in the face, and it's too devoted to peace to defend itself when it's attacked!
They're infiltrated by Undine, and they refuse to fight. the Borg invade Gamma Orionis, and they refuse to fight. The true Way blatantly steals military equipment in violation of the treaty that ended the Dominion war, and they refuse to fight. The Dominion sends Changelings through the Wormhole who join up with Las and lead the Alpha Jem'Hadar, and they refuse to fight.
Wake up and smell the Raktajino! The Klingons are right! This is not the time for debate and diplomacy, it is time to defend the Alpha Quadrant from the influence of forces seeking it's destruction!
I'm still failing to see either in this wikipedia copy/paste fest going on in here. However, I could use a sammich now. Get to it you Federation dog.........