yes thanks for the replys, my arguments for content are more todo with the kdf as a hole and not just my own personal enjoyment as my own personal enjoyment comes from playing with other people on the kdf side. the biggest wall we have on the kdf side is players burn themselves out trying to lvl the kdf.
Well then that takes care of my concerns as far as that matter goes. Thanks for the replies
I does not fix my concern...I mean what counter cloak detection will we have so that we can actually play pvp when the nebula comes out? If they can detect us whilst 10km away, then what's the use of us using a cloak...But when they use cloaks, we have NO cloak detection on the Klingon side...that's not just game-changing but game-breaking. I posted some comments on the Nebula page here on the forums. What do the devs have for us to combat this? I would hate to see every Klingon stay out of PVP just because everybody that can afford CP is flying a nebula.....
I does not fix my concern...I mean what counter cloak detection will we have so that we can actually play pvp when the nebula comes out? If they can detect us whilst 10km away, then what's the use of us using a cloak...But when they use cloaks, we have NO cloak detection on the Klingon side...that's not just game-changing but game-breaking. I posted some comments on the Nebula page here on the forums. What do the devs have for us to combat this? I would hate to see every Klingon stay out of PVP just because everybody that can afford CP is flying a nebula.....
:mad:
While it would be nice if Dstahl could personally address everyone of our concerns. His comments here have gone a long way to showing us more of what the Devs have in store on the content side for the KDF. We should be thankful that he stopped in.
The design of the system calls for a shared resource library and each player has a set amount of projects they can be working on. You could then share projects with one another and collaborate on them together (although I think only one person can have it checked out at a time). If someone is really good at making environements, they could do that part - then someone else could write the dialog - someone else could make the NPC costumes - and someone else could design the combat parts. It is a slick idea and add in the ratings system and I'm hoping that we'll be able to see some really good missions come up in the ratings really fast once this goes live.
this was one of the few questions i wanted to ask about UGC, i really believe that collaborations will make player created missions shine. I think that the system you have described so far will add so much to this game on both KDF and federation sides; it could also help add a lot of strength to the communities in game. i can't wait to see this engine and i'm excited about what we could all collectively make.
... add in the ratings system and I'm hoping that we'll be able to see some really good missions come up in the ratings really fast once this goes live.
Glad there will be a rating system. I like the idea of UGC, but I don't want to get stuck playing crappy missions. A rating system will let us avoid having to sort thru the missions written in TNG style (goals like "have a conference", "reach a consensus with your staff", "hug a random crewmember") and get straight into the good stuff, written TOS style (goals like "Tell everyone how its going to be or they can suck it", "Show primitive species holding out on precious resources why it sucks to be a primitive species", "nail an alien woman (+1 bonus emblem if she is green)". I could play any of those.
One advantage is that area also includes the Archer system. Why is that interesting you ask? Because the "real name" of that system is also the name of the Kzinti homeworld.
A Kzinti/Caitian dispute would do a lot to elevate these races from the "lorelol" status some fans attribute to them and bring them more into the gameworld.
Plus... You could work in M'Ress. It would be nice to see a former Enterprise Bridge Crew member and I can't imagine anything that would keep you from pulling her in for a Caitian/Kzinti arc.
That's also where Empress Sela was conceived so you might see some shady Romulan activity stirring everything up.
We have learned from CBS that we will not be able to feature the Kzinti as a playable faction as their backstory and specifics are tied to Niven's literary works and our current license does not cover that. (We were able to use the Caitians as they appeared outside of the animated series)
Instead we are investigating what other feline-like species might be allied with the KDF.
We have learned from CBS that we will not be able to feature the Kzinti as a playable faction as their backstory and specifics are tied to Niven's literary works and our current license does not cover that. (We were able to use the Caitians as they appeared outside of the animated series)
Instead we are investigating what other feline-like species might be allied with the KDF.
Please possible create a canoid species or allows us to have some canoid features in the character creator! I've been wanting a canoid since almost my first post on these forums
We have learned from CBS that we will not be able to feature the Kzinti as a playable faction as their backstory and specifics are tied to Niven's literary works and our current license does not cover that. (We were able to use the Caitians as they appeared outside of the animated series)
Instead we are investigating what other feline-like species might be allied with the KDF.
Please possible create a canoid species or allows us to have some canoid features in the character creator! I've been wanting a canoid since almost my first post on these forums
Do you mean a 4 legged creature or more "canoid" like facial features?
The lessons learned from that is that we can waste a lot of precious content development time making content that is exclusive to a very small percentage of the paying customer base.
I don't quite understand. You put a lot of precious content development time into making ...
Formal wear from the 21st century ... that only appeals to a minority of the players.
The Excelsior ... that only appeals to a minority of the players (as not everyone flies a cruiser)
The retrofit Defiant ... that only appeals to a minority of the players (as not everyone flies an escort, and among top level escort players not everyone wanted to abandon the options that already existed).
The diplomacy system ... that only appeals to people who do not want to engage in combat.
A Torpedo that launches transphasic mines. That only appeals to a minority of players.
Seems to me that you already establish that the team works on stuff that only appeals to a slice of the playerbase ... a small minority of players.
So if it's justifiable to do that in the above examples ... why is it such an issue when it comes to making Klingon stuff? Certainly there's enough Klingons out there to match up with Defiant pilots comparably?
I mean, you guys do good work. A lot of good work. But like, I may personally love the new weapon from Out in the Cold, I've already read a dozen or so posts from people who swear they'll never bother equipping it. I'm already in the minority as I think the weapon's great and have found a spot for it on two of my ships. But you're not going to convince a majority of players to equip mines of any sort, let alone transphasic mines. No matter how awesome I or others claim it can be.
This is why you are seeing me spend the apples I have on Featured Episodes and UGC. They are the biggest bang for the buck for everyone and ultimately they help solve the content problem in 2 ways: They provide a base of content for *any* future faction over time, and UGC allows players to create the content they are interested in playing. If that is more KDF content - then players will be able to make far more missions than we ever could.
The weekly missions are amazing. I've enjoyed every moment of the Breen/Deferi storyline. I truly believe that weekly content can replace "raid" content in a new movement in these types of games. I remember a lot of guildies in old games would invariably show up only once or twice a week to raid. So the player involvement works out to be the same. But the thing weeklies have going for them is ... instead of doing the same thing over and over again every week ... you get new story. The story moves forward. Personally, I think your team are very clever for going this way. The potential there is such that I think you can move the entire genre of MMORPGs forward in a very meaningful way.
UGC ... has a lot of potential too. But as per some posts already made about it (from Stormshade, IIRC) ... the stuff we're going to get to play with first is very much a beta? So I read that as meaning it'll be somewhat limited? I don't know. Won't know till we can play it and see.
For the game as a whole I think your concept for weeklies are gold. I know it made that last 5 levels of my Klingon go by much more enjoyably than the grind was on my human admiral right after 2.0 debuted. So I'm already seeing the content have a positive affect on my gaming.
UGC ... I'm just more cautious with. I like it's potential but need to see the tools available.
I really hope that helps to explain our thinking and why we are spending our mission dollars where we are.
It does. To an extent. Just to remember that ... I still perceive certain things ... like the T3 excelsior ... as being content tailored to a minority of the playerbase. Because even though it is popular it's still just a cruiser for one faction in a game that has 2 other ships and one other faction.
The ANTICANS were a Canine-like species from TNG who were at odds with the Cobra-like Selay. I imagine after their initiation into the UFP was rejected/suspended they could have turned to the KDF.
Too bad about the Kzin, I would have loved to see them.
The ANTICANS were a Canine-like species from TNG who were at odds with the Cobra-like Selay. I imagine after their initiation into the UFP was rejected/suspended they could have turned to the KDF.
Too bad about the Kzin, I would have loved to see them.
Yep I can live with Anticans, but I'd love something a little more canine looking if possible.
This is one of the reason we asked for the UGC engine to be developed in the first place. We recognize that we'll never be able to keep up with player's desire for content.
While I abhor the idea of depending on the players to fill out the game's content while paying full subscription (LTS in my case) and C-Store prices; I do understand the necessity of having a functional UGC engine built into the game.
So bring it on (yes Nagus, after the arguing we've done about it, I said to bring it )
I've discussed in the past that there is diminishing returns for devoting a ton of time on any one specific piece of content. Case in point the STFs. We spent *the most* time out of all of our mission types, making those STFs (multiple weeks of development for 1 mission) and the problem is - they are very complex to make and ended up with bugs and very few people ultimately end up being able to play them. They are at a point now where I'd redesign them and open them up for smaller teams or cross-faction teams if I had the manpower to do it.
Well what are yalls long term plans for the game's endgame then, and when are yall hoping (or w/e) to have it out? Season 4, 5?
The lessons learned from that is that we can waste a lot of precious content development time making content that is exclusive to a very small percentage of the paying customer base. When you have limited content development resources (which we've always had) it makes more sense for us to be spending our content efforts on either missions that everyone can enjoy or tools that allow players to make tons of content on their own.
Most of the C-Store is geared towards people that want some sort of niche or edge, and all of that effort used for the Federation side just adds to the bad....aura (for lack of a better term) that surrounds around the Klingons.
Since yall have been telling us that the Klingons will be getting their needed attention in regards to ships we've gotten 1 ship and promises of more, while the Federation has gotten how many? I think they're at six, and each with special abilities and/or BO layouts. What are we supposed to think?
I really hope that helps to explain our thinking and why we are spending our mission dollars where we are.
I understand that you're doing your damnedest to make the best out of the situation, and I really wish that Cryptic would give yall more people (hell, I think that if a lot of people in this game had their way, NWN would be canceled and the resources poured into STO), but it's abundantly clear that that won't happen.
So our choices are to wait and hope, or quit.
I have a great deal of hope that you can make this work, but many have quit already, and before I took a short break I knew more than a few people who were tired of it all....
We have learned from CBS that we will not be able to feature the Kzinti as a playable faction as their backstory and specifics are tied to Niven's literary works and our current license does not cover that. (We were able to use the Caitians as they appeared outside of the animated series)
Instead we are investigating what other feline-like species might be allied with the KDF.
If nothing else ... something could be created as just as there are humans in more than one location, there could well be felines that are very similar.
After all ... look at the Trill.
And who is to say that at some point in history a splinter group of the Caitians did not break away?
On a different note .... I know not everything is open but what about what is in the books?
I ask because there is a very very interesting race called the Children of San-Tarah ... featured in the book "Honor Bound."
The Children of San-Tarah are furred bipeds- a humanoid species covered in fur. They have pointed ears, long snouts instead of noses, and lipless mouths. Their teeth are as sharp as Klingon teeth, if not sharper, and they have three fingers and a thumb on each hand. Both their fingers and their padded feet end in sharp claws.
San-Tarah use both their claws and feet in battle, in addition to their bladed weapons.
and
The Children of San-Tarah were divided into a system of packs, which are similar to the Klingon Great Houses. The packs are led by the Ruling Pack.
Described as a true warrior culture, the Children of San-Tarah did not concern themselves with politics or commerce. They settled everything with combat; the decisions of their Ruling Pack could be challenged via a battle, and accused thieves would fight their accusers in combat. They are such a warrior culture that their language does not even have a word for peace. When battling, they usually carve out a circle in the dirt. If a fighter leaves the circle, they forfeit the battle.
The San-Tarah also revere the hunt, participating in a battle known as the Great Hunt. Earning the right to join the Great Hunt (again, usually by single combat) is considered a great achievement among them. They commonly hunt the san-chera, but also other creatures such as the san-reak during winter.
They use horns to communicate. A three-note horn means that the San-Tarah are invaded by an outside force. (GKN novel: A Good Day to Die)
They do believe in gods, or el-mar. Their afterlife is described as "running with the dead". (GKN novel: Honor Bound)
If nothing else ... something could be created as just as there are humans in more than one location, there could well be felines that are very similar.
After all ... look at the Trill.
And who is to say that at some point in history a splinter group of the Caitians did not break away?
On a different note .... I know not everything is open but what about what is in the books?
I ask because there is a very very interesting race called the Children of San-Tarah ... featured in the book "Honor Bound."
We have learned from CBS that we will not be able to feature the Kzinti as a playable faction as their backstory and specifics are tied to Niven's literary works and our current license does not cover that. (We were able to use the Caitians as they appeared outside of the animated series)
Instead we are investigating what other feline-like species might be allied with the KDF.
Rakshasas from D&D. You know you want tiger people instead of lions of lion cubs!
Just toss on another name but keep the orange-white-black striped tiger thing.
This is one of the reason we asked for the UGC engine to be developed in the first place. We recognize that we'll never be able to keep up with player's desire for content.
I've discussed in the past that there is diminishing returns for devoting a ton of time on any one specific piece of content. Case in point the STFs. We spent *the most* time out of all of our mission types, making those STFs (multiple weeks of development for 1 mission) and the problem is - they are very complex to make and ended up with bugs and very few people ultimately end up being able to play them. They are at a point now where I'd redesign them and open them up for smaller teams or cross-faction teams if I had the manpower to do it.
The lessons learned from that is that we can waste a lot of precious content development time making content that is exclusive to a very small percentage of the paying customer base. When you have limited content development resources (which we've always had) it makes more sense for us to be spending our content efforts on either missions that everyone can enjoy or tools that allow players to make tons of content on their own.
This is why you are seeing me spend the apples I have on Featured Episodes and UGC. They are the biggest bang for the buck for everyone and ultimately they help solve the content problem in 2 ways: They provide a base of content for *any* future faction over time, and UGC allows players to create the content they are interested in playing. If that is more KDF content - then players will be able to make far more missions than we ever could.
I really hope that helps to explain our thinking and why we are spending our mission dollars where we are.
I can understand the reasoning...its sound. honestly, no MMo can keep up with the demand for new in-depth content. The input vastly out matches the output. Anything that allows te players to drive content is a win. Its one of the mani points behind the push for the PvP territory war...once the mechanics are set, it'll run more or less on its own. All you guys have to do is keep expanding and creating new sectors and objective systems...they can mostly procedurly generated. The players will take are of the rest, day in and day out, 24/7. it just one more development that once done will take a massive load off the dev team while providing continuous content and repeatable gameplay. Initially its high input in building it(like the UGC), but once its released, it high output low input.
In the meantime, I'd just like to see the KDF community have a bit more influence on what we get so we make the most of whatever you have the resources to comitt to us here and there. I know the reference will hurt somebody's feelings, because they put a lot of effort into its creation...but we cant afford anymore Kar'fies.
Please possible create a canoid species or allows us to have some canoid features in the character creator! I've been wanting a canoid since almost my first post on these forums
The Anticans from TNG seem like a good fit to me.
They had an application for Federation membership at the same time as a rival race. They were also carnivorous and prefer to eat their food alive, which was a weird cultural barrier.
You probably need to go a bit crazy on the sliders and maybe a new nose but I think they'd make a fine stand-in for the Kzinti.
Given their advanced technology and standing as an old race, they might have unique knowledge of the Iconians. Given that they work through proxies and specialists, choosing to ally with the Klingons could have some kind of symbolic importance for what they think is required in the days ahead.
Realistically speaking, the new weekly episodes and an occasional new Klingon specific episode is about the most we're going to get from the Dev team. I'd love more, but thats just being realistic. I think the REAL source of new Klingon content is going to come from UGC in season 3, so I just hope the Klingon fan fiction writers are preparing their stories now.
UCC is an exciting prospect. Hopefully the content will reflect what being a Klingon REALLY is from people who like Klingons and understand their culture and history, not like what we've seen so far.
You probably need to go a bit crazy on the sliders and maybe a new nose but I think they'd make a fine stand-in for the Kzinti.
Given their advanced technology and standing as an old race, they might have unique knowledge of the Iconians. Given that they work through proxies and specialists, choosing to ally with the Klingons could have some kind of symbolic importance for what they think is required in the days ahead.
You probably need to go a bit crazy on the sliders and maybe a new nose but I think they'd make a fine stand-in for the Kzinti.
Given their advanced technology and standing as an old race, they might have unique knowledge of the Iconians. Given that they work through proxies and specialists, choosing to ally with the Klingons could have some kind of symbolic importance for what they think is required in the days ahead.
Wouldn't they have the same problem as the Kzinti since they were only seen in TAS?
Comments
I does not fix my concern...I mean what counter cloak detection will we have so that we can actually play pvp when the nebula comes out? If they can detect us whilst 10km away, then what's the use of us using a cloak...But when they use cloaks, we have NO cloak detection on the Klingon side...that's not just game-changing but game-breaking. I posted some comments on the Nebula page here on the forums. What do the devs have for us to combat this? I would hate to see every Klingon stay out of PVP just because everybody that can afford CP is flying a nebula.....
:mad:
While it would be nice if Dstahl could personally address everyone of our concerns. His comments here have gone a long way to showing us more of what the Devs have in store on the content side for the KDF. We should be thankful that he stopped in.
this was one of the few questions i wanted to ask about UGC, i really believe that collaborations will make player created missions shine. I think that the system you have described so far will add so much to this game on both KDF and federation sides; it could also help add a lot of strength to the communities in game. i can't wait to see this engine and i'm excited about what we could all collectively make.
Glad there will be a rating system. I like the idea of UGC, but I don't want to get stuck playing crappy missions. A rating system will let us avoid having to sort thru the missions written in TNG style (goals like "have a conference", "reach a consensus with your staff", "hug a random crewmember") and get straight into the good stuff, written TOS style (goals like "Tell everyone how its going to be or they can suck it", "Show primitive species holding out on precious resources why it sucks to be a primitive species", "nail an alien woman (+1 bonus emblem if she is green)". I could play any of those.
We have learned from CBS that we will not be able to feature the Kzinti as a playable faction as their backstory and specifics are tied to Niven's literary works and our current license does not cover that. (We were able to use the Caitians as they appeared outside of the animated series)
Instead we are investigating what other feline-like species might be allied with the KDF.
Please possible create a canoid species or allows us to have some canoid features in the character creator! I've been wanting a canoid since almost my first post on these forums
Just make up one
Do you mean a 4 legged creature or more "canoid" like facial features?
Well if our "investigation" doesn't turn up anything related, we will most likely invent our own feline like species for the KDF to play.
I don't quite understand. You put a lot of precious content development time into making ...
Formal wear from the 21st century ... that only appeals to a minority of the players.
The Excelsior ... that only appeals to a minority of the players (as not everyone flies a cruiser)
The retrofit Defiant ... that only appeals to a minority of the players (as not everyone flies an escort, and among top level escort players not everyone wanted to abandon the options that already existed).
The diplomacy system ... that only appeals to people who do not want to engage in combat.
A Torpedo that launches transphasic mines. That only appeals to a minority of players.
Seems to me that you already establish that the team works on stuff that only appeals to a slice of the playerbase ... a small minority of players.
So if it's justifiable to do that in the above examples ... why is it such an issue when it comes to making Klingon stuff? Certainly there's enough Klingons out there to match up with Defiant pilots comparably?
I mean, you guys do good work. A lot of good work. But like, I may personally love the new weapon from Out in the Cold, I've already read a dozen or so posts from people who swear they'll never bother equipping it. I'm already in the minority as I think the weapon's great and have found a spot for it on two of my ships. But you're not going to convince a majority of players to equip mines of any sort, let alone transphasic mines. No matter how awesome I or others claim it can be.
The weekly missions are amazing. I've enjoyed every moment of the Breen/Deferi storyline. I truly believe that weekly content can replace "raid" content in a new movement in these types of games. I remember a lot of guildies in old games would invariably show up only once or twice a week to raid. So the player involvement works out to be the same. But the thing weeklies have going for them is ... instead of doing the same thing over and over again every week ... you get new story. The story moves forward. Personally, I think your team are very clever for going this way. The potential there is such that I think you can move the entire genre of MMORPGs forward in a very meaningful way.
UGC ... has a lot of potential too. But as per some posts already made about it (from Stormshade, IIRC) ... the stuff we're going to get to play with first is very much a beta? So I read that as meaning it'll be somewhat limited? I don't know. Won't know till we can play it and see.
For the game as a whole I think your concept for weeklies are gold. I know it made that last 5 levels of my Klingon go by much more enjoyably than the grind was on my human admiral right after 2.0 debuted. So I'm already seeing the content have a positive affect on my gaming.
UGC ... I'm just more cautious with. I like it's potential but need to see the tools available.
It does. To an extent. Just to remember that ... I still perceive certain things ... like the T3 excelsior ... as being content tailored to a minority of the playerbase. Because even though it is popular it's still just a cruiser for one faction in a game that has 2 other ships and one other faction.
He probably meant 'dog-headed'.
better to be dog-headed than pig-headed I always say.
Dog-headed I'm a dog owner and probably part canine myself Something like the Caitians but with dog features.
Fighting like cats and dogs...who else would love this simile...lol?
Too bad about the Kzin, I would have loved to see them.
Yep I can live with Anticans, but I'd love something a little more canine looking if possible.
While I abhor the idea of depending on the players to fill out the game's content while paying full subscription (LTS in my case) and C-Store prices; I do understand the necessity of having a functional UGC engine built into the game.
So bring it on (yes Nagus, after the arguing we've done about it, I said to bring it )
Well what are yalls long term plans for the game's endgame then, and when are yall hoping (or w/e) to have it out? Season 4, 5?
Most of the C-Store is geared towards people that want some sort of niche or edge, and all of that effort used for the Federation side just adds to the bad....aura (for lack of a better term) that surrounds around the Klingons.
Since yall have been telling us that the Klingons will be getting their needed attention in regards to ships we've gotten 1 ship and promises of more, while the Federation has gotten how many? I think they're at six, and each with special abilities and/or BO layouts. What are we supposed to think?
I understand that you're doing your damnedest to make the best out of the situation, and I really wish that Cryptic would give yall more people (hell, I think that if a lot of people in this game had their way, NWN would be canceled and the resources poured into STO), but it's abundantly clear that that won't happen.
So our choices are to wait and hope, or quit.
I have a great deal of hope that you can make this work, but many have quit already, and before I took a short break I knew more than a few people who were tired of it all....
If nothing else ... something could be created as just as there are humans in more than one location, there could well be felines that are very similar.
After all ... look at the Trill.
And who is to say that at some point in history a splinter group of the Caitians did not break away?
On a different note .... I know not everything is open but what about what is in the books?
I ask because there is a very very interesting race called the Children of San-Tarah ... featured in the book "Honor Bound."
http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Children_of_San-Tarah
From that article ...
and
I love it! And now I'm going to have to read the IKS Gorkon books.
Rakshasas from D&D. You know you want tiger people instead of lions of lion cubs!
Just toss on another name but keep the orange-white-black striped tiger thing.
Their hands are backwards.
And they're ... uh ... demons.
If I had to vote, I'd vote for Thundercats! Cause you know Wiley Kit would look totally awesome with a bat'leth!
I can understand the reasoning...its sound. honestly, no MMo can keep up with the demand for new in-depth content. The input vastly out matches the output. Anything that allows te players to drive content is a win. Its one of the mani points behind the push for the PvP territory war...once the mechanics are set, it'll run more or less on its own. All you guys have to do is keep expanding and creating new sectors and objective systems...they can mostly procedurly generated. The players will take are of the rest, day in and day out, 24/7. it just one more development that once done will take a massive load off the dev team while providing continuous content and repeatable gameplay. Initially its high input in building it(like the UGC), but once its released, it high output low input.
In the meantime, I'd just like to see the KDF community have a bit more influence on what we get so we make the most of whatever you have the resources to comitt to us here and there. I know the reference will hurt somebody's feelings, because they put a lot of effort into its creation...but we cant afford anymore Kar'fies.
The Anticans from TNG seem like a good fit to me.
They had an application for Federation membership at the same time as a rival race. They were also carnivorous and prefer to eat their food alive, which was a weird cultural barrier.
The Vedala
You probably need to go a bit crazy on the sliders and maybe a new nose but I think they'd make a fine stand-in for the Kzinti.
Given their advanced technology and standing as an old race, they might have unique knowledge of the Iconians. Given that they work through proxies and specialists, choosing to ally with the Klingons could have some kind of symbolic importance for what they think is required in the days ahead.
UCC is an exciting prospect. Hopefully the content will reflect what being a Klingon REALLY is from people who like Klingons and understand their culture and history, not like what we've seen so far.
You can never go wrong with these little devils!
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Vendorian
Wouldn't they have the same problem as the Kzinti since they were only seen in TAS?
Hey cool another D&D fan. They have lots of cool things in the D&D world like eye of the beholder and succubus!
Space is big.
Agreed, but unfortunately the copyright laws are not :mad: