Yup! Throw in that Excalibur class with T1 or T2, your choice. For Admiral level ships, Prometheus (Esc), Sovereign (cruiser), and Luna (sci) sounds right to me as well. Good job Mojo.
Line up abilities like in EVE:
T1: frigate, fast moving, low survivability, great stealth
T2: destroyer, light-to-moderate firepower, light survivability, good maneuverability
T3: cruiser, very flexible for various fittings, good survivability, moderately maneuverable (save the Defiant ofc)
T4: battlecruiser, lower maneuverability, high firepower, fleet leadership bonuses, high survivability
T5: battleship, lowest maneuverability, highest firepower, highest survivability
Toss in some diversified abilities for certain tiers and ship types like:
+ EWar working best on science ships, moderately well on other types
+ Tractor beams working best on battleships (T5) cruisers, moderately well on other types
+ Nebula tachyon detection grid (already planned, good work)
+ etc, etc
Please also note that "relative power" of these ships should be on a sliding scale. 2200 century ships should be less powerful than their 2300 counterparts which should in turn be less powerful than their 2400 counterparts.
A little advance planning would have saved a lot of this from being a mess. I'd rather have had a lineup like this from the beginning as opposed to a bunch of individual "new" ships I don't really care about. I'd have even been ok with you saving the ship part-swapping until a little later for a ship chart that made sense.
I must admit that I was expecting the ship line up to be similar to EVE, having a ship 100+ years old with better stats than a Soverign sounds silly even with retrofits etc.
I must admit that I was expecting the ship line up to be similar to EVE, having a ship 100+ years old with better stats than a Soverign sounds silly even with retrofits etc.
In EVE, the T3 Strategic Cruisers are made with Sleeper technology that predates even the existence of mankind...
And they're arguably the best medium sized cruisers around. Just sayin' :cool:
I think we need to get away from Boff stations defining the the ship classes, and make all (klingo and fed) ships have universal slots.
Distinguish the classes through other means, escorts can mount dual cannon and have better turn rates, science ships have sub system targeting and larger shields, Cruisers have more hull and crew, BoPs have battle cloak, etc. Then give some energy modifiers and call it done.
I think it would allows us all more freedom to have the ship and crew that we want to play, and not be pigeon-holed by some arbitrary mechanic.
Escorts would be Warships. Their purpose would be to fight. They would be equipped to do so. Strong in battle, weak in research.
Science Vessels are NOT meant to fight. Their purpose is to go somewhere and do research. They would be equipped to fight, but only enough to allow them to escape from battle. Strong in research, weak in battle.
Cruisers would be Explorers. Their task is to go where no one has gone before. TO this end, they would need to do a bit of both fighting and research. They would do neither as effectively as the specialized ships. Average in battle and research.
Warships (Subsystem Targeting, Cannon use)
T1 Frigate
T2 Destroyer
T3 Cruiser
T4 Heavy Cruiser
T5 Battleship
T6 Dreadnought/Carrier
Bigger and smaller ships would vary equivalently. The idea is that a Warship should be at an advantage against anything but another warship. It should be possible for other classes to defeat warships, however.
All NPC ships would have the same stats and abilities as the PC ships. That means if you're going up against a T5 Battleship in your T2 Destroyer, you're going to LOSE. It's unrealistic to have a Miranda blowing up whole fleets of ships. It should have no chance against something like a Vorcha, or D'Deridex.
I still prefer the EVE lineup better. But as you say, anyway...
Would have been neat to see Science ships get a boost in collecting the raw materials for Memory Alpha, with Science captains in Science ships being absolutely the best at it. Like 1.5x the haul of anomalies. Maybe even some additional raw materials like you'd need to build a larger piece of equipment. Would also be nice to see Impulse Engines split from Warp Reactors like in SFC3 and have racial restrictions obviously.
Then introduce a mechanic where Engineering captains are most efficient at crafting in MA (costs them less to manufacture) and engineers flying cruisers would maybe get a bonus to any non-weapon items below rare quality that make them perform as rare.
Then maybe have Tactical captains be adept at doing "improvements" to manufactured items from MA and bonuses to MA-manufactured weapons below rare that equal the power of rare on a tactical's escort.
There's a lot of richness that could be explored here.
I really believe Cryptic made the right call classifying this ship as a Cruiser. It has way too many cruiser features to be anything else. I like the pod varient idea and the adjusting the stats based on whether it is a Engineering or Science varient, but classifying this ship as just science would be wrong. It's a crusier that can be modified into a science ship, but it's still a crusier none the less.
I really believe Cryptic made the right call classifying this ship as a Cruiser. It has way too many cruiser features to be anything else. I like the pod varient idea and the adjusting the stats based on whether it is a Engineering or Science varient, but classifying this ship as just science would be wrong. It's a crusier that can be modified into a science ship, but it's still a crusier none the less.
Exactly. Although I think the universal slot Idea will work fine.
Seriously though I also see that as a Science but as a cruiser Captain I say do both if it supports it.
What nerf it? it is fine the way it is in fact i dare say it is to weak compared to the excelsior. I do like it as it is and if cryptic wants to change it from star cruiser to a crusier/sience ship mix that is alright but i think i prefer it as it is. If anyone has a problem a science captain can fly a crusier.
THIS IS ALL SUBJECT TO CHANGE!!! (unless you forgot what happened with the Excelsior) but better to start talking about it now than weeks from now.
Also keep in mind this ship has been in development for some time (pre-dates the new KDF ships being worked on)
Ok... here it is
Nebula
A StarCruiser variant (Its not a Retrofit. It utilizes the StarCruiser Skill).
Requires:
Rear Admiral
Weapons:
4 Fore
4 Aft
Boff seats (4 Boffs, 11 Powers):
1 Lt Tact
1 Cm Eng
1 LC Science
1 Lt Universal
Mods:
4 Eng
3 Sci
2 Tact
3 Device Slots
750 Crew
Unique Ability:
Tachyon Detection Grid: PBAoE buff that increases your, and allies w/in 10k, Starship Sensor Stat and Cloak Detection. Each buffed ally in turn will buff more allies within 10k of them - thus extending the grid.
Turn Rate = Galaxy
Any other stats not mentioned are the same as a Star Cruiser.
Screenshots attached - the second is one of the mission pod swap out configuration options
Its been underdevelopment Dstal is nothing more the another Craig Im sure if you would have been developing klingon ship right along side of fed ship but thats not possible. Cryptic you dam disgust me and so do you dstal with you Politian like lies. O well give the feds all they need the truth is most of them will still suck! Ships , weapon, Boffs, and ex .. Will never make up for skill. Skill is something learn not given like the skill that cryptic lacks in developing games. The funny thing is your running of pure star trek fans and the most of the real mmoers are gone. You know what that means right your next mmo will fail before it even launches.:p
While I believe screen evidence largely suggests Kirk would actually be an Engineer instead (the only captain to ever fabricate a deployable on-screen, among other things) this is definitely going down the right track. For another example, Sisko was part of the design team for the Defiant, suggesting an Engineering background himself, and the Defiant isn't just an escort, it's the escort. Captain type != ship role, especially for RP purposes where several of the escorts and science ships have generally been referred to as cruisers in other material.
To add to that: Sisko also build a Bajoran spacecraft after original designs and build watches (or at least one watch) in an episode where he was controlled by some alien spirit/mind thingy.
But then, even Picard modified his own phaser rifle for use against the Borg. Federation officers are polymaths.
A careful inspection of the Nebula-class model reveals that it has no visible impulse engines. In a recent entry on Doug Drexler's weblog, Rick Sternbach indicated that he envisioned the ship's impulse drives as being hidden behind baffles to scatter their signature for stealth reasons. He added that "modern" Starfleet vessel impulse engines operated on little conventional rocket thrust anyways, being more of a sub-warp subspace drive.
Pardon me for asking, but where are the Impulse engines on the Nebula?
there are none, i believe someone came up with some reason where they would be, but i think the designer who made it all those years back just forgot to put them in
Pardon me for asking, but where are the Impulse engines on the Nebula?
They're, um, hidden. This is canon - the original model builders forget to put the engines on. :^)
i think the nebula should be a Tier 3 Science Vessel, really, who wants a fugly science ship like the one on 'All Good Things' TNG episodes.
yeah, i'm almost certain that the tier 3 version will be science because of this. they just added a t3 cruiser, and there have always been complaints by people who hate the olympic style ships.
It also implies that they went with a science ship for the t5 version, but maybe not.
just for fairness and balance it should be a science but ill take it either way
One of the few voices of reason concerning the issue of this ship's class .... . I myself am a bit tired of the Cruiser bias in this game. The devs really need to show more consideration to the Escort and Science Vessel fans on here. After all, a game of Rock Paper Scissors isn't fun when it seems like the only choice is Rock. :rolleyes:
One of the few voices of reason concerning the issue of this ship's class .... . I myself am a bit tired of the Cruiser bias in this game. The devs really need to show more consideration to the Escort and Science Vessel fans on here.
I am repeating myself, but the distinction between Escorts, Cruisers and Science Vessel isn't exactly "canon". There was only one Escort ever onscreen- the Defiant. The Intrepid was not a Science Vessel.
STO classifes some existing canon ships as escorts or science vessel, but they were never listend as such in the shows and were usually fully fledged starfleet cruisers with at best a slightly more limited mission profile.
The only Science Vessel was the Oberth, and it had no real combat value. The Intrepid has been declared a science vessel in this game, but it was pretty much a smaller enterprise. Same basic capabiltiies, but with less crew, less firepower and not quite as tough, but still designed to explore space independently. It's first job was hunting down the Maquis in the Badlands. Hardly a "science" mission. It certainly didn't shoot off Tyken's Rift or Energy Siphons.
For purposes of the game, the distinction can be handy, because it allows to make ships different without everyone having to fly the big ships at tier 5 (Sovereign, Galaxy, Prometheus I suppose). But it can make the transfer canon-logic to game-logic difficult.
Seriously, this is the only ship I've wanted to play, since I first heard about STO a decade ago. If I have to pay IRL money to get it, or do some BS badge grinding, I'm never playing STO again.
Mercenary Off-Duty outfit is scheduled to come out on Sept 9
Nebula is schedule to come out on Sept 23.
The Nebula will have a T3 and T5 version.
You will be able to obtain BOTH the T3 and the T5 nebula in game for some sort of currency (TBD). You will also be able to purchase an account wide unlock that gives the T3 and T5 ship unlock to all Fed characters on your account.
Yay for progress!
That is the last of the Fed ships that were started during Season 2 development. Next up will be the KDF ships. I believe that includes...
- Level 41+ vorcha variant (or is the the Negh'Var? heck now I can't remember)
- Level ?? BOP (fire torps while cloaked)
- Level 51 Orion Ship
- Level 51 Gorn Ship
- Level 51 Nausicaan Ship
The level 51 ships will be available by token, emblem, or c-store unlock
The Level 41 vorcha will be for in game currency and possibly in the c-store as an account unlock
I have no idea about the BOP yet.
There could be more KDF ships too - but those are the ones I remember.
For those who don't know already, you wont HAVE to pay. So be happy.
As for this topic, I think everything and every idea has been said. So we just need to wait and see what Dstahl and the rest put to us next. Personally I would be happy with the original spec they posted. Although swapping that 4th Eng console for a 3rd tac would make it near perfect.
It's to a Galaxy what a Miranda is to a Connie or a Centaur to an Excelsior. T3 makes sense.
See my post above, it has a secondary hull, unlike the Miranda. It's about the same size as the Galaxy. As a Tier 4 Science Ship, it would be different from the Galaxy (ie as different as the Miranda was from the Constitution).
See my post above, it has a secondary hull, unlike the Miranda. It's about the same size as the Galaxy. As a Tier 4 Science Ship, it would be different from the Galaxy (ie as different as the Miranda was from the Constitution).
Presence or lack of a secondary hull has no bearing on whether a ship qualifies as a light or heavy cruiser. Smaller ships like the Oberth and Nova have secondary hulls, even though they have much more limited mission profiles than the Miranda ever did. It is simply a design choice.
As far as being nearly the same size as the Galaxy, there is no definitive canon indication of the Nebula's size anywhere. DS9 was notorious for altering ship sizes to make a scene frame better, and the few TNG appearances don't give sufficient reference points. Assuming that because it has similar looking parts (saucer, hull, and nacelles) it is of similar size is just that, an assumption.
Though all sources on size and crew for the Nebula-class are non-canon, they all fairly universally agree that it is a smaller ship than the Galaxy.
Comments
Line up abilities like in EVE:
T1: frigate, fast moving, low survivability, great stealth
T2: destroyer, light-to-moderate firepower, light survivability, good maneuverability
T3: cruiser, very flexible for various fittings, good survivability, moderately maneuverable (save the Defiant ofc)
T4: battlecruiser, lower maneuverability, high firepower, fleet leadership bonuses, high survivability
T5: battleship, lowest maneuverability, highest firepower, highest survivability
Toss in some diversified abilities for certain tiers and ship types like:
+ EWar working best on science ships, moderately well on other types
+ Tractor beams working best on battleships (T5) cruisers, moderately well on other types
+ Nebula tachyon detection grid (already planned, good work)
+ etc, etc
Please also note that "relative power" of these ships should be on a sliding scale. 2200 century ships should be less powerful than their 2300 counterparts which should in turn be less powerful than their 2400 counterparts.
A little advance planning would have saved a lot of this from being a mess. I'd rather have had a lineup like this from the beginning as opposed to a bunch of individual "new" ships I don't really care about. I'd have even been ok with you saving the ship part-swapping until a little later for a ship chart that made sense.
In EVE, the T3 Strategic Cruisers are made with Sleeper technology that predates even the existence of mankind...
And they're arguably the best medium sized cruisers around. Just sayin' :cool:
Distinguish the classes through other means, escorts can mount dual cannon and have better turn rates, science ships have sub system targeting and larger shields, Cruisers have more hull and crew, BoPs have battle cloak, etc. Then give some energy modifiers and call it done.
I think it would allows us all more freedom to have the ship and crew that we want to play, and not be pigeon-holed by some arbitrary mechanic.
The Sleepers were humans from Earth..... EVE is very far in the future..........
Escorts would be Warships. Their purpose would be to fight. They would be equipped to do so. Strong in battle, weak in research.
Science Vessels are NOT meant to fight. Their purpose is to go somewhere and do research. They would be equipped to fight, but only enough to allow them to escape from battle. Strong in research, weak in battle.
Cruisers would be Explorers. Their task is to go where no one has gone before. TO this end, they would need to do a bit of both fighting and research. They would do neither as effectively as the specialized ships. Average in battle and research.
Warships (Subsystem Targeting, Cannon use)
T1 Frigate
T2 Destroyer
T3 Cruiser
T4 Heavy Cruiser
T5 Battleship
T6 Dreadnought/Carrier
Science Ships (Sensor Jam, Advanced Sensors)
T1
T2
T3
T4
T5
T6
Explorers (Advanced Warp Core)
T1
T2
T3
T4
T5
T6
All tier 1 ships would be small, fast and manueverable. As the tiers increase, the ships become larger, tougher and slower.
An example of the ships, numbers picked out of the air.
T3 ships
Warship (Cruiser)
Weapons: 3xF 2xA
Crew 200
Hull 4000
Shields 3000
BOs 2xT, 2xE, 1xS
Science ("Cruiser")
Weapons 2xF, 1xA
Crew 100
Hull 3000
Shields 2000
BOs 2xT, 2xE, 3xS
Explorer ("Cruiser")
Weapons 2xF 2xA
Crew 300
Hull 5000
Shields 3000
BOs 2xT, 2xE, 2xS
Bigger and smaller ships would vary equivalently. The idea is that a Warship should be at an advantage against anything but another warship. It should be possible for other classes to defeat warships, however.
All NPC ships would have the same stats and abilities as the PC ships. That means if you're going up against a T5 Battleship in your T2 Destroyer, you're going to LOSE. It's unrealistic to have a Miranda blowing up whole fleets of ships. It should have no chance against something like a Vorcha, or D'Deridex.
Anyway...
I think I love you!
NEBULA.... /dies
Would have been neat to see Science ships get a boost in collecting the raw materials for Memory Alpha, with Science captains in Science ships being absolutely the best at it. Like 1.5x the haul of anomalies. Maybe even some additional raw materials like you'd need to build a larger piece of equipment. Would also be nice to see Impulse Engines split from Warp Reactors like in SFC3 and have racial restrictions obviously.
Then introduce a mechanic where Engineering captains are most efficient at crafting in MA (costs them less to manufacture) and engineers flying cruisers would maybe get a bonus to any non-weapon items below rare quality that make them perform as rare.
Then maybe have Tactical captains be adept at doing "improvements" to manufactured items from MA and bonuses to MA-manufactured weapons below rare that equal the power of rare on a tactical's escort.
There's a lot of richness that could be explored here.
Exactly!!
QFT.
Exactly. Although I think the universal slot Idea will work fine.
What nerf it? it is fine the way it is in fact i dare say it is to weak compared to the excelsior. I do like it as it is and if cryptic wants to change it from star cruiser to a crusier/sience ship mix that is alright but i think i prefer it as it is. If anyone has a problem a science captain can fly a crusier.
Its been underdevelopment Dstal is nothing more the another Craig Im sure if you would have been developing klingon ship right along side of fed ship but thats not possible. Cryptic you dam disgust me and so do you dstal with you Politian like lies. O well give the feds all they need the truth is most of them will still suck! Ships , weapon, Boffs, and ex .. Will never make up for skill. Skill is something learn not given like the skill that cryptic lacks in developing games. The funny thing is your running of pure star trek fans and the most of the real mmoers are gone. You know what that means right your next mmo will fail before it even launches.:p
But then, even Picard modified his own phaser rifle for use against the Borg. Federation officers are polymaths.
Good question
Here is a screenshot from memory alpha:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:USS_Prometheus_at_warp,_Second_Sight.jpg
EDIT: from memory-alpha:
there are none, i believe someone came up with some reason where they would be, but i think the designer who made it all those years back just forgot to put them in
yeah, i'm almost certain that the tier 3 version will be science because of this. they just added a t3 cruiser, and there have always been complaints by people who hate the olympic style ships.
It also implies that they went with a science ship for the t5 version, but maybe not.
One of the few voices of reason concerning the issue of this ship's class .... . I myself am a bit tired of the Cruiser bias in this game. The devs really need to show more consideration to the Escort and Science Vessel fans on here. After all, a game of Rock Paper Scissors isn't fun when it seems like the only choice is Rock. :rolleyes:
STO classifes some existing canon ships as escorts or science vessel, but they were never listend as such in the shows and were usually fully fledged starfleet cruisers with at best a slightly more limited mission profile.
The only Science Vessel was the Oberth, and it had no real combat value. The Intrepid has been declared a science vessel in this game, but it was pretty much a smaller enterprise. Same basic capabiltiies, but with less crew, less firepower and not quite as tough, but still designed to explore space independently. It's first job was hunting down the Maquis in the Badlands. Hardly a "science" mission. It certainly didn't shoot off Tyken's Rift or Energy Siphons.
For purposes of the game, the distinction can be handy, because it allows to make ships different without everyone having to fly the big ships at tier 5 (Sovereign, Galaxy, Prometheus I suppose). But it can make the transfer canon-logic to game-logic difficult.
Nebula is to Galaxy as Miranda is to Constitution.
Not quite. Nebula has the same saucer, nearly the same secondary hull and the same engines. Miranda is missing the secondary hull.
bye then
For those who don't know already, you wont HAVE to pay. So be happy.
As for this topic, I think everything and every idea has been said. So we just need to wait and see what Dstahl and the rest put to us next. Personally I would be happy with the original spec they posted. Although swapping that 4th Eng console for a 3rd tac would make it near perfect.
It's to a Galaxy what a Miranda is to a Connie or a Centaur to an Excelsior. T3 makes sense.
See my post above, it has a secondary hull, unlike the Miranda. It's about the same size as the Galaxy. As a Tier 4 Science Ship, it would be different from the Galaxy (ie as different as the Miranda was from the Constitution).
Presence or lack of a secondary hull has no bearing on whether a ship qualifies as a light or heavy cruiser. Smaller ships like the Oberth and Nova have secondary hulls, even though they have much more limited mission profiles than the Miranda ever did. It is simply a design choice.
As far as being nearly the same size as the Galaxy, there is no definitive canon indication of the Nebula's size anywhere. DS9 was notorious for altering ship sizes to make a scene frame better, and the few TNG appearances don't give sufficient reference points. Assuming that because it has similar looking parts (saucer, hull, and nacelles) it is of similar size is just that, an assumption.
Though all sources on size and crew for the Nebula-class are non-canon, they all fairly universally agree that it is a smaller ship than the Galaxy.