If I told you I would have to kill you and thats just messy business... But on a serious note... if you want to deal damage in an assault cruiser... #1 you have to keep your energy high, #2 you have to survive and I find that the ltc engineer slot has much better use than a LTC tac.... not only in helping you survive but increasing your dps. I liked how you chose one word... instead of getting my overall post.... yay for tunnel vision!
There's no way you take an Eng slot from an assault cruiser, add a Tac slot, and end up with a ship that does LESS damage.
If you add BO3 to the Excelsior, it clearly out-damages a Sovreign. And there is no LC Eng ability that makes up for that kind of damage, even if it is a second RSP.
That doesn't mean you can't do just fine in an assault cruiser, but the Excelsior is still more...assaulty.
If I told you I would have to kill you and thats just messy business... But on a serious note... if you want to deal damage in an assault cruiser... #1 you have to keep your energy high, #2 you have to survive and I find that the ltc engineer slot has much better use than a LTC tac.... not only in helping you survive but increasing your dps. I liked how you chose one word... instead of getting my overall post.... yay for tunnel vision!
DPS means damage per second. All of the stats you're dealing with are based on overall damage. Which is directly reflected in survivability. Not DPS.
The excelsior has more damage potential. And can obtain higher DPS. It has the same of everything an assault cruiser has, except the ability to access a higher burst damage power with a Lt. Commander tactical choice.
Overall damage on a scorecard does not reflect DPS. I can get more damage in a match than an escort. But I never kid myself into thinking my DPS is higher than an escort's. The escort just loses on overall damage because it gets killed more often and spends downtime respawning and then flying back into combat.
There's also the sad case that the sovereign can get ignored in PVP combat. So it'll do more overall damage on a scorecard, because it's not deemed a threat and is not killed.
If my Fed team loses 0-15 in a cracked planet ... and I don't even get killed once ... and I top my team in the scorecard ... was my damage at all useful? Was I even relevant to the outcome of the fight?
Scorecard Damage tells a story yes. But not the story I think people want it to.
ahhh the narrow minded tac does damage vs engineer is tanking view I am so used to.... you go with your excelsior and play and do "more" damage and I will come through with my assault cruiser and light your boats deflector up.... B O 3 is overated.... 1 because it drains your energy.... 2 because it does not deal that much damage on a normal phaser bank... and 3... because most players do not know how to use it. in a battle 1 vs 1 an assault crusier will win against an excelsior... especially if a cruiser captain has half a brain. k thanks fly excelsior flyyyyyyyy :P and omg people quit with the one word trolls... you get my point.. dps just is an easier way of getting my point across LOL
I'll be honest, right now I'm regretting being a Lifetime Subscriber. But it angers me more is the Excelsior Refit completely makes my Sovereign a completely useless PoS.
Bad enough the Star Cruiser and the Galaxy-R has more survivability, but the Excelsior-Refit has superior Tactical abilities, better manuverability, and better survival.
So all in all, Sovereign Captains got the middle finger. :mad:
I think you got it so very wrong - the Klingon Faction players got the royal shaft... Period. [ * rolls over and goes back to sleep, patiently waiting for PvP *]
Instead of whining and crying about this, man up (or woman up if it's fitting) and start thinking about suggestions and solutions to rectify this.
The past two days, one of the biggest threads on this forum featured conversation and dialouge with both Jack and dStahl. Obviously they want to hear what we have to say and want to try and overcome their stigma.
So....
Let's help them do that. Come up with ideas and solutions. Not more gripes.
My idea:
Boost up the VA ships. all of them, across the board. I've always felt they were a little weak anyway, so let's get a boost going on, that will bring them into line with the Excelsior refit, or slightly above it.
Stop crying for nerfs and start thinking proactively.
I'm a Klingon player by choice - or at least I was. I now spend my evenings reading the forums hoping for some glimmer of hope to appear. I then log into my faction to find the sector as deserted as a Ferengi brothel. If you think that giving the remaining Klingons players even more cause to abandon the game, then please give me a moment to pry the kitchen sink out and throw that in for good measure...
Overcapping got nerfed recently. So EPtW hits a ceiling. And since a lot of rock solid assault cruiser builds can run 125 weapons power without needing a single buff ...
As far as warp plasma goes ... it only gets dangerous when stacked. And EWP III is a very viable option for the commander slot which both ships have.
ahhh the narrow minded tac does damage vs engineer is tanking view I am so used to.... you go with your excelsior and play and do "more" damage and I will come through with my assault cruiser and light your boats deflector up.... B O 3 is overated.... 1 because it drains your energy.... 2 because it does not deal that much damage on a normal phaser bank... and 3... because most players do not know how to use it. in a battle 1 vs 1 an assault crusier will win against an excelsior... especially if a cruiser captain has half a brain. k thanks fly excelsior flyyyyyyyy :P and omg people quit with the one word trolls... you get my point.. dps just is an easier way of getting my point across LOL
I'm an engineer and my main character flies an assault cruiser. I've posted dozens of build tips on how to maximize the use of the assault cruiser in PVP. I've flown the assault cruiser with great success in PVP. I'm not at all who you seem to think I am.
If my Fed team loses 0-15 in a cracked planet ... and I don't even get killed once ... and I top my team in the scorecard ... was my damage at all useful? Was I even relevant to the outcome of the fight?
Scorecard Damage tells a story yes. But not the story I think people want it to.
I never said I could out dps an escort... just to start lol I said I could out dps an excelsior... and to answer your question I propose another question.. If I am dealing as much damage as an excelsior in a sovereign AND can put out easily 500k healing.... because of the engineer focus... why get an excelsior to suposedly "do more damage" because of its tac abilities? you are taking my OP and dragging it into the realms of oblivion... I am saying that an Assault cruiser can out damage an excelsior because it is able to maintain a higher dps output... and be able to outlast an excelsior because of more enigneering slots that give great skills like Eng team 3, EP to S 3 etc....
Cryptic, you said you wouldn't put any game changing things in the C-Store and the T5 Excelsior is already doing just that. It's easily dominating in PvP.
And at the same time, you completely made a mockery of the Sovereign and all the players who Captain her.
the excelsior is not OP its like every other ship in the right hands its OP to those that cant or wont learn how to pvp.
In one pvp me in my assault cruiser (soveregin) i killed one guy in his excelsior then i seen him again & went for him next thing i know i had 4 on me & they couldnt kill me, problem was i couldnt kill them either.
this went on for like 15 mins in a cap & hold , till one from my side showed up. we killed one
one ran & we finished the other 2 in quick style.
I for one wont give cryptic another dime untill they start treating the klingon faction with the same respect
that the federation side gets , to me equal amount of ships on both factions equal respect.
Im happy with the fact klingons are meant to be pvp orientated faction always have been,
I am also happy that they have added new missions & have enjoyed playing said new missions.
But what i wont tolerate is the fact that the feds get so many ships to pick from & the klings get what oh 5
& out of those 5 to me only 2 are worth using. the bop & the neg.
And if truth be told had i not been stupid enough to buy life time subs for my son & myself id have canceled
On day 1 of season 2 giving cryptic the same big FU that they have dished out to the klingons time & again.
My main is an Engineer in an Assault Cruiser/Excelsior... I like the look of both ships but prefer the manueverability of the Excelsior... I traded EP2W-III for BO-III. for me thats a wash in damage.
The turning rate and whatnot on the Excelsior has been a huge QoL increase for me.
Keeping arc on an unshielded hull and picking up loot/research has been a lot easier.
To me, thats not something you can quantify easily.
You make this too easy, and where did you see stated I have not done any research or data? oh wait, you didnt. I have this info gathered, just not sharing it here on this thread.
You have not been paying attention, as data I have been discussing other forums with those with their own data, you can look for them yourself since I dont accomodate lacadaciousness. Which is all you have done just in the above posts along with other posts.
You opinion is good, and its great you have one, but beyond that you have the ability to post what you think of the game on the forum, Cryptic has the right to change/alter/remove. You will find that under the Terms of Service, please familiarize yourself with it or not if you wish. In public you can spout what you like and dislike all you like, go for it. This isnt public, its a private forum owned by Cryptic.
Far as your personal opinon of me, your a big lad, you will survive and get over it
Now, if you want to look around at legitimate discussions where we are talking stats and info, you will find that data. Yes, you can do the leg work yourself, be good for you, builds character. This thread isnt about that , it was a slanderous knee jerk reaction not well thought out by the original poster, who while I can understand his frustration, went about it in a incorrect way presenting incorrect or no info of his claim at all. He has done this in several locations, in an attempt to just start TRIBBLE. Much like yourself, which is cool if you wish to do that, just dont expect a friendly reception anymore as myself and seems several others are calling folks out on it.
Now this will be the last posting I do in this thread, or to you if you reply back, which if you do will be just as hillarous to read for some. I have moved to the forums where we are actually discussing the ships powers and abilities.
I love people like you who don't like to give information, and demand others find proof for their own points. If you can't show data, don't whine when others don't.
You obviously have not been listening, as I have said that I have a right to post my opinion all I want, AS LONG as it doesn't violate the forum policies.
I'm sorry you are unreceptive of other people's opinions and try to attack them since you cannot come up with any logical or intelligent comments. Have fun in a new forum, where I'm sure many can listen to your ill thought rants. I don't think any one will miss you here, pal.
i think the car analogy is more apropos than one to a salt water navy ship. The marine environ is very caustic, with little life forms that aid in the process of decay. Not to say space does not offer challenges to the longevity of a ship, I do not believe that space is a hostile to a hull as the oceans of earth.
Still if you insist on using a salt water analogy I'll bite. Consider a naval ship that was not built to modern modular specifications. Served with continual upgrades, (Offensive range extended from 25 nautical miles to over 1000 nautical miles), for a total of fifty two years and continues to function as a museum for a grand total of seventy one years of hull in the water. Iowa class battleships are a bad analogy for for space ships but it gives an idea about how a ship can be mothballed, turned into a museum, upgraded, used in another war, mothballed and turned back into a museum.
Space is worse, It vacuum weilds everything together.
Space is worse, It vacuum weilds everything together.
Um whut? You can't be serious about this post nasal drip.
Space stations are the oldest inhabited objects in continual orbit.
Funny Mir was in space from 1986-2001 no vacuum welds reported there. ISS, (International Space Station), has been in orbit since 1998, no space induced vacuum welds reported there. The reason space stations are a bad example for hull aging in regards to science fiction like Star trek is because the hulls of real, built on earth and lifted into orbit, space stations are literally paper thin. Sometimes several layers of paper thin aluminium, (thought I would be nice to our international friends and spell it internationally), but still paper freaking thin. That and we have not been sending space stations into orbit for very long yet. Mir is still the longest lived at 15 years. Being that ISS wont finish construction till 2011, it is a good bet that ISS will break Mir's 15 year record.
Voyager 1 launched in 1977 is still sending back information from 14billion kilometers from the sun. Thirty three years, yes 12,000 plus days of continual operation and not one failure due to space induced vacuum welds.
Cryptic, you said you wouldn't put any game changing things in the C-Store and the T5 Excelsior is already doing just that. It's easily dominating in PvP.
And at the same time, you completely made a mockery of the Sovereign and all the players who Captain her.
Oh, what.. people who have money and pay for extras in game get an advantage? what a surprise *angelic look*
I don't think the Excelsior is undefeatable and it isn't so drasticly better than any other top tear ship (setup right). People who pay for C-Store ships might just be really avid players who are good at PvP.
I am sorry, Thlaylie. Don't you remember me from the Caitian threads where we both expressed our appreciation of Larry Niven and the contributions he made to Star Trek? The post nasal drip comment was a heavy handed attempt at comedy nothing more. I figured you would get it because, as far as I know, no one uses post nasal drip as an insult. Again forgive me I will be more cautious in the future.
How can you tell humans have become more stupid since the '60s?
Current Space station doesn't rotate! Zero-G is fatal immediately sapping your bones of calcium and enlarging your heart.
It does not rotate because the experiments performed there are zero gravity experiments. Rotation would impart artificial gravity and ruin the desired results.
The 60's scientists knew what they were doing, now obviously not so much.
Seems they are just lubbing the TRIBBLE out of everything to prevent VC.
Didn't stop the idiots from installing and misprogramming a timer on the solar panel array of the 1rst Mars rovers.
I did not hear about the malfunctioning solar panel array. Far as I know both rovers performed well past their predicted run times.
Now Star Dust is a good example of a mistake. Star Dust's error was caused when someone failed to convert from metric to United States Customary Units. That's why it's chute did not deploy after re-entry.
I know the rest of the world uses metric and Americans are considered backwards for sticking with a variation of English Units but damn it fractions are more accurate. In English Units a third of something is always a third of something. In metrics, because they are based in units of ten and the French demanded a unit of measure devoid of fractions after the French Revolutionary War, a third is .3333333333333333333ad infinum.
Case in point in a recent documentary I watched a scientist give the degree of the coldest temperature that mankind can generate with laser assisted evaporative cooling. She used the metric system and at the end of the decimal she closed with a fraction. Seriously, to make the Metric system accurate enough the lady employed a hybrid number.
Of course I could be wrong in all this, everything any American does lately seems to be wrong in the rest of the worlds eyes, but the French Revolution giving birth to the Metric System is what I was taught and that lady in the documentary is how I remember it. So blame my college algebra instructor and blame that scientist then tell me the other story.
I also suffer from severe sinus problems so might be touchy there.
I am also recovering from a Venwar attack if that helps.
Were you the one that answered my Kzin with a perfect Kzin answer about me being nameless?
That was fun RP and your response was perfect Kzin.
To be honset there was no way for me to know that you have issues with your sinuses. I would not have stooped so low had I known.
I have not played my Adies in some time, leveling my alts you see. So I have no idea what a Venwar was. I thought maybe it was a version of the flu or a bad seasonal alergy. I punched "Venwar Attack" into a goggle search. Low and behold at the top of the list is a link to the "Amusing pVp chat of the week! " thread. Sounds like Venwar is amusing in the least. LOL
All of our contact has been on the forums and I do not RP so it had to be someone else who called you "Nameless." Glad to hear you had fun though.
It wasn't the solar array on the Rover that malfunctioned,
It was the idiot engineer who felt there should be a timer on the solar array and of course his moroness programmed it wrong. He mixed up winter and summer on Mars. (Duh)
So not only did he waste payload space and weight, but he screwed up the machine as well that's still frozen in place up there.
The current head of NASA almost flipped one of the Rovers because he forgot it takes time for the radio waves to get there an he was "drivin the rover der."
I didn't mean RP in a separate venu, I meant I talked like a Kzin here and someone responded perfectly.
Comments
If you add BO3 to the Excelsior, it clearly out-damages a Sovreign. And there is no LC Eng ability that makes up for that kind of damage, even if it is a second RSP.
That doesn't mean you can't do just fine in an assault cruiser, but the Excelsior is still more...assaulty.
DPS means damage per second. All of the stats you're dealing with are based on overall damage. Which is directly reflected in survivability. Not DPS.
The excelsior has more damage potential. And can obtain higher DPS. It has the same of everything an assault cruiser has, except the ability to access a higher burst damage power with a Lt. Commander tactical choice.
Overall damage on a scorecard does not reflect DPS. I can get more damage in a match than an escort. But I never kid myself into thinking my DPS is higher than an escort's. The escort just loses on overall damage because it gets killed more often and spends downtime respawning and then flying back into combat.
There's also the sad case that the sovereign can get ignored in PVP combat. So it'll do more overall damage on a scorecard, because it's not deemed a threat and is not killed.
If my Fed team loses 0-15 in a cracked planet ... and I don't even get killed once ... and I top my team in the scorecard ... was my damage at all useful? Was I even relevant to the outcome of the fight?
Scorecard Damage tells a story yes. But not the story I think people want it to.
I think you got it so very wrong - the Klingon Faction players got the royal shaft... Period. [ * rolls over and goes back to sleep, patiently waiting for PvP *]
I'm a Klingon player by choice - or at least I was. I now spend my evenings reading the forums hoping for some glimmer of hope to appear. I then log into my faction to find the sector as deserted as a Ferengi brothel. If you think that giving the remaining Klingons players even more cause to abandon the game, then please give me a moment to pry the kitchen sink out and throw that in for good measure...
Overcapping got nerfed recently. So EPtW hits a ceiling. And since a lot of rock solid assault cruiser builds can run 125 weapons power without needing a single buff ...
As far as warp plasma goes ... it only gets dangerous when stacked. And EWP III is a very viable option for the commander slot which both ships have.
I'm an engineer and my main character flies an assault cruiser. I've posted dozens of build tips on how to maximize the use of the assault cruiser in PVP. I've flown the assault cruiser with great success in PVP. I'm not at all who you seem to think I am.
I never said I could out dps an escort... just to start lol I said I could out dps an excelsior... and to answer your question I propose another question.. If I am dealing as much damage as an excelsior in a sovereign AND can put out easily 500k healing.... because of the engineer focus... why get an excelsior to suposedly "do more damage" because of its tac abilities? you are taking my OP and dragging it into the realms of oblivion... I am saying that an Assault cruiser can out damage an excelsior because it is able to maintain a higher dps output... and be able to outlast an excelsior because of more enigneering slots that give great skills like Eng team 3, EP to S 3 etc....
Healing on the scorecard has some very known, very well covered bugs and issues. Check the tribble forums or the pvp forums for the scoop on that.
the excelsior is not OP its like every other ship in the right hands its OP to those that cant or wont learn how to pvp.
In one pvp me in my assault cruiser (soveregin) i killed one guy in his excelsior then i seen him again & went for him next thing i know i had 4 on me & they couldnt kill me, problem was i couldnt kill them either.
this went on for like 15 mins in a cap & hold , till one from my side showed up. we killed one
one ran & we finished the other 2 in quick style.
I for one wont give cryptic another dime untill they start treating the klingon faction with the same respect
that the federation side gets , to me equal amount of ships on both factions equal respect.
Im happy with the fact klingons are meant to be pvp orientated faction always have been,
I am also happy that they have added new missions & have enjoyed playing said new missions.
But what i wont tolerate is the fact that the feds get so many ships to pick from & the klings get what oh 5
& out of those 5 to me only 2 are worth using. the bop & the neg.
And if truth be told had i not been stupid enough to buy life time subs for my son & myself id have canceled
On day 1 of season 2 giving cryptic the same big FU that they have dished out to the klingons time & again.
The turning rate and whatnot on the Excelsior has been a huge QoL increase for me.
Keeping arc on an unshielded hull and picking up loot/research has been a lot easier.
To me, thats not something you can quantify easily.
I love people like you who don't like to give information, and demand others find proof for their own points. If you can't show data, don't whine when others don't.
You obviously have not been listening, as I have said that I have a right to post my opinion all I want, AS LONG as it doesn't violate the forum policies.
I'm sorry you are unreceptive of other people's opinions and try to attack them since you cannot come up with any logical or intelligent comments. Have fun in a new forum, where I'm sure many can listen to your ill thought rants. I don't think any one will miss you here, pal.
Too short.
Space is worse, It vacuum weilds everything together.
Um whut? You can't be serious about this post nasal drip.
Space stations are the oldest inhabited objects in continual orbit.
Funny Mir was in space from 1986-2001 no vacuum welds reported there. ISS, (International Space Station), has been in orbit since 1998, no space induced vacuum welds reported there. The reason space stations are a bad example for hull aging in regards to science fiction like Star trek is because the hulls of real, built on earth and lifted into orbit, space stations are literally paper thin. Sometimes several layers of paper thin aluminium, (thought I would be nice to our international friends and spell it internationally), but still paper freaking thin. That and we have not been sending space stations into orbit for very long yet. Mir is still the longest lived at 15 years. Being that ISS wont finish construction till 2011, it is a good bet that ISS will break Mir's 15 year record.
Voyager 1 launched in 1977 is still sending back information from 14billion kilometers from the sun. Thirty three years, yes 12,000 plus days of continual operation and not one failure due to space induced vacuum welds.
Oh, what.. people who have money and pay for extras in game get an advantage? what a surprise *angelic look*
I don't think the Excelsior is undefeatable and it isn't so drasticly better than any other top tear ship (setup right). People who pay for C-Store ships might just be really avid players who are good at PvP.
Post nasal drip is it?
How can you tell humans have become more stupid since the '60s?
Current Space station doesn't rotate! Zero-G is fatal immediately sapping your bones of calcium and enlarging your heart.
The 60's scientists knew what they were doing, now obviously not so much.
Seems they are just lubbing the TRIBBLE out of everything to prevent VC.
Didn't stop the idiots from installing and misprogramming a timer on the solar panel array of the 1rst Mars rovers.
I like Cryptic's C-Store and think people like you should try to be nicer.
I am sorry, Thlaylie. Don't you remember me from the Caitian threads where we both expressed our appreciation of Larry Niven and the contributions he made to Star Trek? The post nasal drip comment was a heavy handed attempt at comedy nothing more. I figured you would get it because, as far as I know, no one uses post nasal drip as an insult. Again forgive me I will be more cautious in the future.
It does not rotate because the experiments performed there are zero gravity experiments. Rotation would impart artificial gravity and ruin the desired results.
I did not hear about the malfunctioning solar panel array. Far as I know both rovers performed well past their predicted run times.
Now Star Dust is a good example of a mistake. Star Dust's error was caused when someone failed to convert from metric to United States Customary Units. That's why it's chute did not deploy after re-entry.
I know the rest of the world uses metric and Americans are considered backwards for sticking with a variation of English Units but damn it fractions are more accurate. In English Units a third of something is always a third of something. In metrics, because they are based in units of ten and the French demanded a unit of measure devoid of fractions after the French Revolutionary War, a third is .3333333333333333333ad infinum.
Case in point in a recent documentary I watched a scientist give the degree of the coldest temperature that mankind can generate with laser assisted evaporative cooling. She used the metric system and at the end of the decimal she closed with a fraction. Seriously, to make the Metric system accurate enough the lady employed a hybrid number.
Of course I could be wrong in all this, everything any American does lately seems to be wrong in the rest of the worlds eyes, but the French Revolution giving birth to the Metric System is what I was taught and that lady in the documentary is how I remember it. So blame my college algebra instructor and blame that scientist then tell me the other story.
Geez, change my avatar a few times and suddenly I go from nice guy to big meanie...
I also suffer from severe sinus problems so might be touchy there.
I am also recovering from a Venwar attack if that helps.
Were you the one that answered my Kzin with a perfect Kzin answer about me being nameless?
That was fun RP and your response was perfect Kzin.
To be honset there was no way for me to know that you have issues with your sinuses. I would not have stooped so low had I known.
I have not played my Adies in some time, leveling my alts you see. So I have no idea what a Venwar was. I thought maybe it was a version of the flu or a bad seasonal alergy. I punched "Venwar Attack" into a goggle search. Low and behold at the top of the list is a link to the "Amusing pVp chat of the week! " thread. Sounds like Venwar is amusing in the least. LOL
All of our contact has been on the forums and I do not RP so it had to be someone else who called you "Nameless." Glad to hear you had fun though.
It was the idiot engineer who felt there should be a timer on the solar array and of course his moroness programmed it wrong. He mixed up winter and summer on Mars. (Duh)
So not only did he waste payload space and weight, but he screwed up the machine as well that's still frozen in place up there.
The current head of NASA almost flipped one of the Rovers because he forgot it takes time for the radio waves to get there an he was "drivin the rover der."
I didn't mean RP in a separate venu, I meant I talked like a Kzin here and someone responded perfectly.
Awesome that Venny has made it to Google!