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Much less likely to buy lifetime again

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Dryan wrote:
    This is simply about being told one thing and them not upholding it.

    I'm glad someone else sees it like i do!
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    AtomicFB wrote:
    I don't have to live in the EU to be familiar with EU commerce laws.

    You're oviously not familiar, which is the problem.

    They were directly asked about the exclusive nature of a component of the offer. Their answer was (like it or not), it will never be available by any other means. If we still had indepth evidence of that, by EU law it would be misleading a consumer to obtain a sale, which is illegal.

    Now can we please drop the subject, as nobody is going to take them to court over this?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    <S> All,

    I believe a clarification of something is in order for this thread.

    Definition of "EXCLUSIVE"
    (REF: http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn):

    # not divided or shared with others; "they have exclusive use of the machine"; "sole rights of publication"
    # excluding much or all; especially all but a particular group or minority; "exclusive clubs"; "an exclusive restaurants and shops"
    # a news report that is reported first by one news organization; "he got a scoop on the bribery of city officials"
    # single(a): not divided among or brought to bear on more than one object or objective; "judging a contest with a single eye"; "a single devotion to duty"; "undivided affection"; "gained their exclusive attention"


    The VERY FIRST definition of exclusive destroys your happy argument about "being released later"... it's simple english to understand that you can't use Exclusive and then say "oh but it will be available for everyone later"... because these two concepts contradict themselves.

    Nice try tho, Stormie

    ;)

    I can see the spin is in full effect:
    StormShade wrote:
    "It's a situation where we really can't make everyone happy. This time, without a doubt, many more players are happy with the decision we made to release these items on the C-store.

    Unfortunately, this comes at the cost of injured feelings of some other players. It is not our intent to injure the feelings of those of you who are upset. That makes no sense for us to do. It does make sense for us to try to please as much of our player base as we can however. Which is what we always strive to do.

    And then someone comes along who has a grasp of the real issue:
    ZenBrillig wrote:
    Whoa, time out here.

    The logical conclusion of this is: no exclusive offers, ever. Since exclusive offers are (either initially or eventually) going to be held by a minority of players, then the majority of players will *always* be in favor of removing their exclusive status.

    So what you've said is: nothing is exclusive. Anything marketed as exclusive is deceptive advertising.

    Cryptic, it was your decision to use the words you used in your marketing:
    CRYPTIC wrote:
    Q: Will the exclusives be offered as a microtransaction?

    A: Not at launch, but somewhere down the road we may offer to let people purchases these if they did not pre-order.

    There is a HUGE difference between "MAY OFFER" and "WILL OFFER".


    Yes, I bought the LTS, but I also bought about 4 other copies of the game: 2 copies of the collectors edition, 2 copies of the regular one.

    Why?
    Because I have no guarantee those items would be offered "later".

    Because I believed in the commonly accepted definition for "Exclusive", not some lawyer-esque backpeddling revision of the word to better conform to the current situation.

    Because I work damned hard for my money, and I can spend it on what I want. If I want to spend my 1200 dollars on multiple editions of the game because I -wanted- those items, then how do you address that one Stormie?

    You can't, because that's where your "logic" falls apart regarding the items as being "bonuses".

    Leave the lifetime sub out of it!!

    On all those other versions I ordered, I ordered them BECAUSE I wanted the {insert bonus exclusive here), and your marketing said "EXCLUSIVE TO THE STEAM EDITION" or "EXCLUSIVE TO THE GAMESTOP EDITION".

    Now, they're not exclusive at all, by ANY definition.
    AtomicFB wrote:
    What this whole debate boils down to is a group of people, not all, but a significant number want something to set themselves apart from the rest of the players. They use words like, "We were lied to" and " We were tricked" and trust etc. Yet, the real point is they lost what set them apart and made them feel all special.

    To the group of people. To bad, so sad. You no longer have your special fluffy stuff. Guess what, neither do I. I don't care because I didn't want that stuff to feel special or to set myself apart from others. Not to mention you had all weekend to make your opinion known so now you really don't have a right to complain. Should have done that before they were put on the c-store.

    For those that wants Cryptic to compensate them. I say you don't deserve anything!

    That's a very mature post. But in one way, your absolutely right. I ABSOLUTELY bought those multiple copies of the game to get the items because I wanted to have them, and I wanted to be able to enjoy the fact that I work, am financially stable, and have the money to invest in this and thus should enjoy the rewards of my hard work and financial freedom.

    Of course you don't want those of us who have these items to have what we have - because your a member of the HAVE-NOTS likely - and for whatever reason you didn't order those copies to get the items. You don't have them, so you laugh at the people that went through the work to get them and then say that the work they did means nothing, just as Cryptic has just done.

    I'm not saying your lazy, you could be disabled....

    just like my Fleetmate Stoneyface who has rhematoid arthritis.

    Legally disabled.

    This guy has had the middle knuckles of all his fingers broken and then fused together JUST SO HE COULD USE HIS HANDS... and guess what?

    He didn't complain... he found a WAY to get the money for not only his LIFETIME SUB, but one other copy as well, because he wanted whatever that copy held.

    Not for FREE, mind. Not for a reduced price. He didn't start crying about how life had dealt him such a bad hand, and since he loved Star Trek SO MUCH that Cryptic should give him those items for free.. nope, he went through all that extra work and effort because he was told it would be an exclusive item, and the very CONCEPT of something being exclusive means the MAJORITY WILL NOT HAVE IT.

    So to all those who couldn't buy those items prior to now, I say you don't deserve them .. but because you complained and cried about it long and hard enough, and because obviously Cryptic cares not about their reputation or whether their customers can trust their word, and because you have a couple more dollars that Cryptic wants..

    Stormie, for you to actually purport that your example is a valid argument explaining Cryptic's marketing strategies is disappointing, as well as ridiculous and honestly a bit insulting. While those in the HAVE-NOT camp certainly have jumped on your bandwagon, and for a most obvious reason (lol), I'm not fooled.

    LOL @ all those who were, and posted such in this forum.

    You want everything the Do-have's have, and your blatant disrespect for the players themselves, or the hard work they went through to get those items shows through, as does Cryptics.

    Your intent is revealed in your behavior.
    StormShade wrote:
    Sure there is. Do you enjoy playing Star Trek Online? Would you enjoy playing it with your friends? Then consider referring them.

    If you do, the real real reward is not some in-game bonus item that we offer you. It's the time you get to spend sharing your hobby with your friend. That's why you should use the referral program, not because you want some in-game perk, but because you want to spend more time with your friend.

    If any of those items ever do make it to the C-store, then you would still be able to earn them for free, rather than paying real money for them, using the referral program.

    Thanks,

    Stormshade

    Are you seriously trying to tell me, the consumer, who's obviously so stupid / lazy / "consumer illiterate" (I love that , BTW) that I didn't do just that when STO first launched? I did, but unfortunately the majority of individuals on D.Net that tried STO found it wanting.

    Why offer the referral bonus, then? Why market that at all?

    Because YOU, CRYPTIC, placed a value on the referral itself.

    A Galaxy X.

    But wait, that's not really the case now, isn't it, based upon what you said in the quote above, right Stormie?

    When those individuals who worked so hard and campaigned with such VIGOR to BRING YOU MORE MONEY complain because you put the Galaxy X in the C Store, you'll just say

    "But... the real reward was playing with your friends who you cajoled, bribed and talked into buying our game !!"


    Because you've set a new expectation.

    According to the very public statements you've made in this thread, I already know all I have to do is wait a couple months and the Galaxy X will be in the C Store because there will, by the very nature of your offer, be more people who DON'T have it, than those who DO.

    And that's exactly the atmosphere you created when you use words like "Exclusive". Funny thing, I don't see all the those posting the passive aggressive sarcasm like "You need to post pictogram" and the like riding Cryptics back for their apparent lack of understanding of the expectations set by their own marketing.

    :rolleyes:

    See, here's the real deal:

    If you didn't get it , you will want it, and from the forums post want it for as close to FREE as possible. All you have to do is complain, wave a few bucks, and Cryptic will oblige.

    Why?

    Because they already have -our- money.

    Don't worry, you'll see soon enough. It's only a matter of time before -you- become the one Cryptic has suckered, because that's how I feel.

    Whether you like it or not, that's reality. Not just my reality, but REALITY.

    Regards,
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    i am the fleetmember that frey is talking about. i have had psoriatic(rheumatoid) arthritis for 29 years, because of this i am legally disabled and i am only 37 years old. because of the disability, i have an extremely limited income. i.e. less than $800 a month to live on. i have had multiple knuckle reconstruction surgeries on both hands and still only have limited use of my right hand and most use of my left.
    pics for proof:
    http://www.xenocorp.net/stoneyface/vb_pics/stitches.jpg
    http://www.xenocorp.net/stoneyface/vb_pics/cast.jpg
    http://www.xenocorp.net/stoneyface/vb_pics/lobster1.jpg
    http://www.xenocorp.net/stoneyface/vb_pics/post_surgery3.jpg

    through all this, i am still a gamer. i use an ergodex keyboard to game. i make sacrifices to game. i am a lifelong star trek fan and have been waiting for this game for ages. i successfully planned ahead and did everything i could to come up with the lifetime membership money and the game. i sold things, i did without things, i sacrificed to get into the "exclusive club" of the lifetime membership. contrary to what some people claim, it was never definitively stated by any cryptice employee before launch that "these "exclusive items" that you get with lifetime sub or preorder will eventually be available in the cryptic store". never. not once. what is the point of offering preorder or lifetime sub perks if you are just going to offer them later for cash? if it had known, why would i have tried so hard to get into this exclusive club? why would do without so i can celebrate my love of trek by getting some really cool items, by showing my support monetarily? to me this is a slap in the face of every member who preordered, who bought lifetime, who bought any kind of deluxe edition, anyone who bought MULTIPLE FRAKING COPIES, to give cryptic more money and to get so called "exclusive items". it is poor judgement and lowers my opinion of cryptic further.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    I paid $199 for lifetime sub in CO, I paid $249 for lifetime sub in STO, i bought the DDE and CE for STO, eventually also bought a gamestop retail copy.
    Do I feel misled? no.
    Do I feel cheated? no.
    Did I receive exclusive access to certain items at launch that helped me get started in STO? yes I did.

    I still have my lifetime subs to both games and still am active in both, and just considered the bonus items just that, bonus items that I received as a thank you for purchasing what I did, and for their purpose, they were indeed exclusive offers at launch, I couldn't ask for much more beyond that.

    Anyone who spent money on CO for a uniform, has no logical base to use that as an objection. No person in their right mind would spend money on a game they really didn't care for just for access to a uniform. If you chose to spend 200 bucks for a uniform, you have bigger fish to fry than whether or not you are justified complaining about cryptic making said uniform available for purchase some months after launch.

    Just my 2 ec...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    TheFreyMan wrote: »
    <S> All,

    I believe a clarification of something is in order for this thread.

    Definition of "EXCLUSIVE"
    (REF: http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn):

    # not divided or shared with others; "they have exclusive use of the machine"; "sole rights of publication"
    # excluding much or all; especially all but a particular group or minority; "exclusive clubs"; "an exclusive restaurants and shops"
    # a news report that is reported first by one news organization; "he got a scoop on the bribery of city officials"
    # single(a): not divided among or brought to bear on more than one object or objective; "judging a contest with a single eye"; "a single devotion to duty"; "undivided affection"; "gained their exclusive attention"


    The VERY FIRST definition of exclusive destroys your happy argument about "being released later"... it's simple english to understand that you can't use Exclusive and then say "oh but it will be available for everyone later"... because these two concepts contradict themselves.

    Nice try tho, Stormie

    ;)

    I can see the spin is in full effect:



    And then someone comes along who has a grasp of the real issue:



    Cryptic, it was your decision to use the words you used in your marketing.

    Yes, I bought the LTS, but I also bought about 4 other copies of the game: 2 copies of the collectors edition, 2 copies of the regular one.

    Why? Because I work damned hard for my money, and I can spend it on what I want. If I want to spend my 1200 dollars on multiple editions of the game because I -wanted- those items, then how do you address that one Stormshadow?

    You can't, because that's where your "logic" falls apart. Leave the lifetime sub out of it!! On all those other versions I ordered, I ordered them BECAUSE I wanted the Connie, and your marketing said "Exclusive to the STEAM EDITION" or "EXCLUSIVE TO THE GAMESTOP EDITION".




    Your absolutely right. I ABSOLUTELY bought those multiple copies of the game to get the items because I wanted to have them, and I wanted to be able to enjoy the fact that I work, am financially stable, and have the money to invest.

    Of course you don't, because your a member of the have-nots - and for whatever reason - I'm not saying your lazy, you could be disabled...just like my Fleetmate Stoneyface who has rhematoid arthritis. This guy has had the middle knuckles of all his fingers broken and then fused together JUST SO HE COULD USE HIS HANDS... and guess what?

    HE DIDN'T COMPLAIN, he found a WAY to get the money for not only his LIFETIME SUB, but one other copy as well, because he WANTED THE CONNIE.

    Not for FREE, mind. Not for a reduced price. He didn't start crying about how life had dealt him such a bad hand, and since he loved Star Trek SO MUCH that Cryptic should give him those items for free.. nope, he went through all that extra work and effort because he was told it would be an exclusive item, and the very CONCEPT of something being exclusive means the MAJORITY WILL NOT HAVE IT.

    So to all those who couldn't buy those items prior to now, I say you don't deserve them .. but because you complained and cried about it long and hard enough, and because obviously Cryptic cares not about their reputation or whether their customers can trust their word.

    Stormshadow, for you to actually purport that your example is a valid argument explaining Cryptic's marketing lies is disappointing, as well as ridiculous and honestly a bit insulting. While those in the HAVE-NOT camp certainly have jumped on your bandwagon, and for a most obvious reason (lol), I'm not fooled.

    LOL @ all those who were, and posted such in this forum.

    You want everything the Do-have's have, and your blatant disrespect for the players themselves, or hte hard work they went through to get those items shows through.

    Your intent is revealed in your behavior.



    Are you seriously trying to tell me, the consumer, who's obviously so stupid / lazy / "consumer illiterate" (I love that , BTW) that I didn't do just that when STO first launched?

    Why offer the referral bonus, then? Why market that at all? Because you've placed a real value on the referral itself.

    A Galaxy X.

    Now, of course, according to the very public statements you've made in this thread, I already know all I have to do is wait a couple months and the Galaxy X will be in the C Store.

    Because there will be more people who DON'T have it, than those who DO.

    Unfortunately, that's exactly the atmosphere you created when you use words like "Exclusive", and I don't see all the those posting the sarcastic little barbs like "You need to post picturgrams" and the like riding Cryptics back for their apparent lack of understanding of the expectations set by Cryptic.

    See, here's the real deal:

    If you didn't get it , you will want it, and from the forums post want it for as close to FREE as possible.

    ?????

    So you're complaining...

    wow...

    By the way, when the "exclusive" bonus items came out on the Gamestop, STEAM, etc, Cryptic said, before that happened, that they had full intentions of putting that stuff in the C-Store.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Why do people not understand the definition of exclusive? It's not a difficult thing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    Doryshan wrote:
    The added benefits do not equal the total cost of the decision. As I understand it from reading other posts, the choice was not $200 for the uniform. It was either $200 paid over 13 months, because the person was considering they would play STO for at least that long, or $200 now with the added bonus of the uniform.

    If you did anything at the tailor other than use the random function for your character's appearance and uniform doesn't that say something about you in a similar vein to someone considering the added bonus of a uniform is worth taking into account?

    Dont mind them, its clear they just wanted to take a dig at the OP and others who spent big bucks for exclusives. Seem they found a golden tickett way to make themselves feel superior and ridicule their opponent unjustly.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    [QUOTE=stoneyface;2758917 i successfully planned ahead and did everything i could to come up with the lifetime membership money and the game. i sold things, i did without things, i sacrificed to get into the "exclusive club" of the lifetime membership. [/QUOTE]

    I think what you're missing here though is that you still have what you set out to get as a life long fan of all things Trek:

    A Lifetime Membership to the Star Trek MMO.

    I don't doubt that if your income is limited that it was a challenge to save up that money. I know that with our own not so limited income I've looked at the Amazon order box a few times and asked myself "Is it really worth that much just to have some in game costume pieces?"

    I said no because I figured a) it'd be available eventually as a means to get money out of the store and b) it's just a game and the game plays the same no matter what uniform my character wears.

    But like you ~chose~ to spend your money on a Lifetime Sub and any other Game Boxes, I chose not to.

    If you only bought the Life Time then you got exactly what you paid for: A life time sub. If you play the game for what, 10 months? 15? you pay for the subscription based on what you would have paid in monthly fees. THat means you moved in the right direction. I'm sorry if you spent a lot of your limited income on the additonal boxes for more ingame perks; I wish I'd talked to you because I had a good feeling this was exactly what would happen.

    I think the same thing when I see people tlaking about buying 5 different game boxes to get the Galaxy X. Sooner or later it'll be in the store.

    But, and this isn't to you Stoneyface, I gotta admit that all the cries about "Being in the exclusive club" ring really hallow for me. This isn't about who gets to show off their flashy car. It's a game. It's a game where for the most part we all start at the same place and what we have in the game is based on what we do in the game. How long we play, how well we play, what kinds of things we do in the game.

    I have a hard time really feeling bad for people who want to look "speical" just because they happen to have money behind it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited June 2010
    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~Stormshade
This discussion has been closed.