It is well stated, and well founded, yes. A valid interpretation of the clues, despite the lack of an actual concrete statement. Lets call it a "circumstantially supported theory." I have a different interpretation, based on the same exact evidence, but including the lack of concrete evidence: That while brought into question and reviewed, the matter remains unsettled, not decided. That removing a phrase does not only indicate the opposing idea is now true, and that the final decision simply was never met. I feel both interpretations are valid - that the policy was reversed, and that the policy underwent review (and all wording was altered to reflect the policy was in question). (I agree with underlined)
Show me the decision itself, and I'll concede. The only decision so far in all this has, obviously, been to change the wording of the offer, repeatedly, and to state that the future status is unknown.
Sounds to me like backpedaling and spin, but not policy. (I would say the back peddling, was their policy statement.)
Shush you! Rekhans response was long overdue. Sometimes it takes a while to get things right. My response wasn't as timely as it could've been, but I'd hope it's a step in the right direction nonetheless.
And See my answer about the future availability of Mirror Universe stuff. We don't know yet. This is a new market for us, and these decisions will be made as we take more cues from the market. It's also why we're reading your feedback. Knowing what you guys like and don't like helps us make decisions for the future.
__________________
Rekhan
Marketing Guy Star Trek Online/Champions Online
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Now, please take note, while I have my hopes on how this will turn out, I am continually debunking any decisive community statements specifically to call out the need for a decisive team statement. I want to know what they decided, in their words, on this forum. Not omission of a word, not "tbd" and not confusing things with new words. Back and white, simple statement defining the policy once and for all, and extending it to all "exclusive" rewards (to settle other debates).
Lets face it, the Schroeder's Cat experiment ultimately always ends with a dead cat if the box is never opened. The cause of death becomes the difference, assuming a limited supply of food is in the box. While a strange analogy, I think they expected the matter to be put to rest the same way - the matter would die down if they never reveal the result, eventually it would be a dead issue. Seems this time, they were wrong.
Careful! "Unique" has no significance as a word! Something that is "unique" is clearly still able to be commonplace, by the interpretations of this forum. ( Agreed completely unique refers to type and not exclusivity )
At any rate, you know it would have been Defender... and then wed get nothing but "WE HAVE TO BLOW UP **ALL** THESE KLINGON SHIPS!!! THEY'RE WHATS CAUSING THE KLINGONS TO ATTACK!!!" every time we load into a kill 6 patrols or deep space encounter mission.
Or worse, Foxbat for the Klingons... That away team encounter wouldn't end well.
Well, first the Champions Online subscription was just under $200, not several hundred dollars.
And I didn't care for CO. And I ignored the offer.
Then they had a splash page that DID say it would be the ONLY way to get the Mirror Universe uniform. And I was hopeful about Star Trek, so I bought the stupid thing, because I wanted the uniform. And I had to buy it NOW or missout on the uniform forever. I played with CO a bit, but haven't got a character past 25 as I prefer CoH.
Now if they release the uniform in the store, I would want my money back and they can have my CO account. (unless it cost something like 14,000 cryptic points which would be close to my cost)
If they release it as, say, a 600 day vet reward, I wouldn't be that upset. Or if they offer varients of the uniforms in the C-store, I would be fine. I wouldn't mind having 2 sets of mirror outfits.
I saved a screenshot of the splash page that got me to buy the lifetime on my old PC. I suppose I'll have to get my PC to boot and search for it.
Then that was your foolish mistake, because like it or not, it was only a perk along with everything else.
The only thing you actually paid for was the LTS itself.
It was not advertised as "Mirror Universe Uniforms with Lifetime Subscription".
I feel very confident I have already proved how the offer was going to be exclusive, then the exclusive was removed after the community backlash, do to several members complaining that the offer was ridiculous.
The word Exclusive was removed from the offer altogether.
The graphic splash page clearly said that the Mirror Univers uniforms was ONLY going to be available to Lifetime Subscribers to CO Online, if purchased before launch. Since it was a graphic page looking all cartoony, it wouldn't be searchable as text.
This irritated me greatly, and I took a screen print before paying my $199 right after. I bet it would hold up in court or a class action suit. I felt they made the graphic just to lure Star Trek Fans to buy a LTS for CO before the launch of CO.
It may have been foolish to pay almost $200 for a costume you couldn't get any other way, but I was cynical enough or wise enough to take a screen print before I paid my money.
The graphic splash page clearly said that the Mirror Univers uniforms was ONLY going to be available to Lifetime Subscribers to CO Online, if purchased before launch. Since it was a graphic page looking all cartoony, it wouldn't be searchable as text.
This irritated me greatly, and I took a screen print before paying my $199 right after. I bet it would hold up in court or a class action suit. I felt they made the graphic just to lure Star Trek Fans to buy a LTS for CO before the launch of CO.
It may have been foolish to pay almost $200 for a costume you couldn't get any other way, but I was cynical enough or wise enough to take a screen print before I paid my money.
I have the champions link in one of the above posts, they took the exclusivity out of the offer after they advertised it on this forum and everyone flew off the handle! check it out I included all the information.
You would never see a refund based on a bonus items give away, because you got all the champions LTS/ exclusives, and unique MU uniform.
They may have removed the exclusivity out of your text pages, but it was still in the graphic splash page at the time I paid. I searched for the page to be sure that buying the stupid LTS was the only way I was gonna get the costume.
They only have to make slight changes and I would be happy if they offered a mirrored Universe costume in the store. Have the skirt slant a different way. Make the top a solid color or use the Captains woman outfit, and Kirk's uniform. Heck, Mirroring the skirt and belt should take no effort, or altering what is individually colorable. I'd even buy an alternate mirrored costume. They made a legal mistake in their wording, and since the splash provided me with my link to pay, that should hold up as well as our click though TOS no one ever reads.
No matter what picardalpha2clearance says about this, the decision is not his to make. He can argue and try to declare victory from a high perch of whatever..
But in the end it is not his decision. Now I can see Cryptic releasing a variant of the MU uniforms with some cosmetic differences. That would make most people happy.
Unless they are OCD.
But the bottom line is this.
picardalpha2clearance does not have the final say... or any say in the matter. Nobody in this forum does.
And that's a fact.
But it is fun to read the whining about people who have spend their money to get it.
No matter what picardalpha2clearance says about this, the decision is not his to make. He can argue and try to declare victory from a high perch of whatever..
But in the end it is not his decision. Now I can see Cryptic releasing a variant of the MU uniforms with some cosmetic differences. That would make most people happy.
Unless they are OCD.
But the bottom line is this.
picardalpha2clearance does not have the final say... or any say in the matter. Nobody in this forum does.
And that's a fact.
But it is fun to read the whining about people who have spend their money to get it.
Good times
I would once again have to point out you are incorrect, several people on this forum may have the final say, their names appear in gold. The only thing you said of fact in the above post is,"picardalpha2clearance does not have the final say." This is true I do not. I would further point out each of us has some say, for we have opinions that contribute to the betterment of this title. Thank you.
I would once again have to point out you are incorrect, several people on this forum may have the final say, their names appear in gold. The only thing you said of fact in the above post is,"picardalpha2clearance does not have the final say." This is true I do not. I would further point out each of us has some say, for we have opinions that contribute to the betterment of this title. Thank you.
I would once again have to point out you are incorrect, several people on this forum may have the final say, their names appear in gold. The only thing you said of fact in the above post is,"picardalpha2clearance does not have the final say." This is true I do not. I would further point out each of us has some say, for we have opinions that contribute to the betterment of this title. Thank you.
Beteterment of the title you say and you think giving the whiners what they want is the way to make the game better? Adding more content finishing klingon pve etc is how to make the game better. Not giving all the shinies away. I keep hearing the argument about he galaxy-x giving people an unfair advantage the mu is purely cosmetic so why do you need it?
Beteterment of the title you say and you think giving the whiners what they want is the way to make the game better? Adding more content finishing klingon pve etc is how to make the game better. Not giving all the shinies away. I keep hearing the argument about he galaxy-x giving people an unfair advantage the mu is purely cosmetic so why do you need it?
pffft the klingons have failed.. we need a undine faction
Beteterment of the title you say and you think giving the whiners what they want is the way to make the game better? Adding more content finishing klingon pve etc is how to make the game better. Not giving all the shinies away. I keep hearing the argument about he galaxy-x giving people an unfair advantage the mu is purely cosmetic so why do you need it?
I think you put words in my mouth the topic you addressed I said nothing about in my post, but I do agree the Klingons need to be finished. I do not currently use the KDF, but still would agree it should be finished, as it was a selling point of the title.I would further say that the Galaxy X has been a players request(me included) since I joined this forum in 2008. I think it is horrible to market a player request in the way it has rolled out. My suggestion would have been to market a custom carrier as or new battle cruiser in its place.
I think you put words in my mouth the topic you addressed I said nothing about in my post, but I do agree the Klingons need to be finished. I do not currently use the KDF, but still would agree it should be finished, as it was a selling point of the title.I would further say that the Galaxy X has been a players request(me included) since I joined this forum in 2008. I think it is horrible to market a player request in the way it has rolled out. My suggestion would have been to market a custom carrier as or new battle cruiser in its place.
It's just my opinion but I believe that no matter what the reward is someone will cry about it. They could'va made the reward let's say Orion slave girl outfits and people would still complain that they want it
I think you put words in my mouth the topic you addressed I said nothing about in my post, but I do agree the Klingons need to be finished. I do not currently use the KDF, but still would agree it should be finished, as it was a selling point of the title.I would further say that the Galaxy X has been a players request(me included) since I joined this forum in 2008. I think it is horrible to market a player request in the way it has rolled out. My suggestion would have been to market a custom carrier as or new battle cruiser in its place.
I thought you were talking about the game being better if sto made these unis available I was just pointing out that a shiny doesn't make the game better
It's just my opinion but I believe that no matter what the reward is someone will cry about it. They could'va made the reward let's say Orion slave girl outfits and people would still complain that they want it
I tend to agree, however making it the MU was hard to top in terms of stupidity. I do not mean that as negatively as it might sound, since I like the game and how cryptic is handling it for the most part. The positives outweigh the negatives. The MU is such an important iconic part of Star Trek that making them available for another game was just plain stupid. They would have sold many, many, many more STO lifetime subs had it been hooked to that. Had they hooked the MU to buying 3 different collectors editions and a yearly or lifetime STO sub it would have been great incentive as well. I would most likely have done either of those deals and .
By making it a requirement to pay for another game, they alienated many customers.
By making it a requirement to pay for another game, they alienated many customers.
I don't think that this deal kept anybody from playing STO. There are many deals I don't agree with. I think the Galaxy X should have been a C-store item, but I am not going to complain about it. It is their decision.
Games have been cross promoting for a long time now. You see it all the time on X-box. Here is an example of one across consoles:
Buy Dragon Age and get Dragon Armor for your character on Mass Effect.
This is one of THOUSANDS of examples out there in the marketplace. It is a tactic that works, otherwise it would not be done.
I don't think that this deal kept anybody from playing STO. There are many deals I don't agree with. I think the Galaxy X should have been a C-store item, but I am not going to complain about it. It is their decision.
Games have been cross promoting for a long time now. You see it all the time on X-box. Here is an example of one across consoles:
Buy Dragon Age and get Dragon Armor for your character on Mass Effect.
This is one of THOUSANDS of examples out there in the marketplace. It is a tactic that works, otherwise it would not be done.
Nuff said.
I said "alienate", not "kept from playing"
Nothing wrong with cross promoting if it is done correctly. The MU are a part of the Star Trek mythology, the dragon armor is not a part of Mass Effect mythology. Bioware got it right, Cryptic did not. If Cryptic had done what Bioware did they you would have unique CO uniforms to wear to show your investment in another Cryptic game in STO. In this case your argument is simply invalid.
Nothing wrong with cross promoting if it is done correctly. The MU are a part of the Star Trek mythology, the dragon armor is not a part of Mass Effect mythology. Bioware got it right, Cryptic did not. If Cryptic had done what Bioware did they you would have unique CO uniforms to wear to show your investment in another Cryptic game in STO. In this case your argument is simply invalid.
No, this is a perfect example. This is an item that comes from ordering another game that is made to go into a different game. It fits even more so, because it is a clothing type.
Buy game "A", recieve clothing item for unrelated game "B" made by the same company
Let's compare:
Buy Lifetime preorder sub to Champions Online, receive Mirror Universe Uniform to wear in Star Trek Online
Company for both games: Cryptic
Buy Special edition of Dragon Age, receive Dragon space cosmetic armor for Mass Effect 2
Company for both games: Bioware
How is this different again? A cosmetic difference.. direction from one game to another. It is minor at best.
But if that won't satisfy you, I am sure we can dredge up hundreds of other gaming cross promotions until you find one that you are completely satisfied with.
A cosmetic difference.. direction from one game to another. It is minor at best.
...more Irrelevant conclusion...
The funny thing is that you are right. The Mass Effect - Dragon Age promotion is the perfect example (of the many possible examples) because it clearly supports my argument that the direction, in this case, is very important. It is in fact, the entire cause of the matter. No one would have made a single post if it were not.
Cryptic did nothing wrong in choosing to promote CO with a STO bonus, as many other companies have done before them. It is the direction from one game to another that Cryptic dropped the ball on and alienated many customers.
Then again a CO themed STO Uniform would not have gotten you to shell out $200+ dollars for a CO LTS. Be honest now...
Then again a CO themed STO Uniform would not have gotten you to shell out $200+ dollars for a CO LTS. Be honest now...
Honestly I bought a Champs LT for a Champs LT, personally. Regardless, the MU uniform means that I bought a Champs LT and I play STO. That loses all meaning if anyone and their mother can just buy it from the Cstore for a few dollars.
I get that everyone loves the look, midriff is sexy. But why don't you guys go after the Enterprise MU uniforms instead, and let the Champs lifers have that unique identifier, whether you like it or not?
I'm all for opening up Champs LTs again and offering the MU with it. But leave it as something special, not something that everyone will have in a matter of weeks if they put it in the Cstore. They can open up who has access to them a little, but they should keep it representative of the fact that the people who have it have invested into Champions.
Mirror Universe outfits are from a whole other universe! And that universe isn't the universe we are playing along with in STO. Its very fitting that they come from Champs in that sense.
Then again a CO themed STO Uniform would not have gotten you to shell out $200+ dollars for a CO LTS. Be honest now...
I shelled out the money because I play CO. I have 7 level 40 characters and am raising another right now (Cyborg swordsman). The uniform is a nice bonus. Once again, cross promotion has been done again and again.
No matter what my motives for buying the subscription to CO, they were still MY motives and I still spent my money. No matter if you feel my spending was justified in your eyes or not.
It does not matter to me or anybody else.
I am sure I could list tons of examples, if I spent the time looking them up. But I am also sure that you would shoot down every one of them as invalid, just to make your point.
This is a cross promotion. Game companies do it. It does not matter if you like how they do it.
So stop lawyering up on every detail and looking for an exact replica of this situation, because I doubt in all of gaming there are 2 deals exactly alike. This is just how the industry works.
Comments
victory, victory, victory.......
just concede so the para-legals can go back to pretending they rule the world.
:cool:
I am not a Paralegal?, but thanks for your support anyway!
And I didn't care for CO. And I ignored the offer.
Then they had a splash page that DID say it would be the ONLY way to get the Mirror Universe uniform. And I was hopeful about Star Trek, so I bought the stupid thing, because I wanted the uniform. And I had to buy it NOW or missout on the uniform forever. I played with CO a bit, but haven't got a character past 25 as I prefer CoH.
Now if they release the uniform in the store, I would want my money back and they can have my CO account. (unless it cost something like 14,000 cryptic points which would be close to my cost)
If they release it as, say, a 600 day vet reward, I wouldn't be that upset. Or if they offer varients of the uniforms in the C-store, I would be fine. I wouldn't mind having 2 sets of mirror outfits.
I saved a screenshot of the splash page that got me to buy the lifetime on my old PC. I suppose I'll have to get my PC to boot and search for it.
The only thing you actually paid for was the LTS itself.
It was not advertised as "Mirror Universe Uniforms with Lifetime Subscription".
The word Exclusive was removed from the offer altogether.
This irritated me greatly, and I took a screen print before paying my $199 right after. I bet it would hold up in court or a class action suit. I felt they made the graphic just to lure Star Trek Fans to buy a LTS for CO before the launch of CO.
It may have been foolish to pay almost $200 for a costume you couldn't get any other way, but I was cynical enough or wise enough to take a screen print before I paid my money.
I have the champions link in one of the above posts, they took the exclusivity out of the offer after they advertised it on this forum and everyone flew off the handle! check it out I included all the information.
You would never see a refund based on a bonus items give away, because you got all the champions LTS/ exclusives, and unique MU uniform.
They only have to make slight changes and I would be happy if they offered a mirrored Universe costume in the store. Have the skirt slant a different way. Make the top a solid color or use the Captains woman outfit, and Kirk's uniform. Heck, Mirroring the skirt and belt should take no effort, or altering what is individually colorable. I'd even buy an alternate mirrored costume. They made a legal mistake in their wording, and since the splash provided me with my link to pay, that should hold up as well as our click though TOS no one ever reads.
But in the end it is not his decision. Now I can see Cryptic releasing a variant of the MU uniforms with some cosmetic differences. That would make most people happy.
Unless they are OCD.
But the bottom line is this.
picardalpha2clearance does not have the final say... or any say in the matter. Nobody in this forum does.
And that's a fact.
But it is fun to read the whining about people who have spend their money to get it.
Good times
I would once again have to point out you are incorrect, several people on this forum may have the final say, their names appear in gold. The only thing you said of fact in the above post is,"picardalpha2clearance does not have the final say." This is true I do not. I would further point out each of us has some say, for we have opinions that contribute to the betterment of this title. Thank you.
i do maybe ? :O muhahahahaha
Beteterment of the title you say and you think giving the whiners what they want is the way to make the game better? Adding more content finishing klingon pve etc is how to make the game better. Not giving all the shinies away. I keep hearing the argument about he galaxy-x giving people an unfair advantage the mu is purely cosmetic so why do you need it?
pffft the klingons have failed.. we need a undine faction
I think you put words in my mouth the topic you addressed I said nothing about in my post, but I do agree the Klingons need to be finished. I do not currently use the KDF, but still would agree it should be finished, as it was a selling point of the title.I would further say that the Galaxy X has been a players request(me included) since I joined this forum in 2008. I think it is horrible to market a player request in the way it has rolled out. My suggestion would have been to market a custom carrier as or new battle cruiser in its place.
It's just my opinion but I believe that no matter what the reward is someone will cry about it. They could'va made the reward let's say Orion slave girl outfits and people would still complain that they want it
I thought you were talking about the game being better if sto made these unis available I was just pointing out that a shiny doesn't make the game better
I tend to agree, however making it the MU was hard to top in terms of stupidity. I do not mean that as negatively as it might sound, since I like the game and how cryptic is handling it for the most part. The positives outweigh the negatives. The MU is such an important iconic part of Star Trek that making them available for another game was just plain stupid. They would have sold many, many, many more STO lifetime subs had it been hooked to that. Had they hooked the MU to buying 3 different collectors editions and a yearly or lifetime STO sub it would have been great incentive as well. I would most likely have done either of those deals and .
By making it a requirement to pay for another game, they alienated many customers.
I don't think that this deal kept anybody from playing STO. There are many deals I don't agree with. I think the Galaxy X should have been a C-store item, but I am not going to complain about it. It is their decision.
Games have been cross promoting for a long time now. You see it all the time on X-box. Here is an example of one across consoles:
Buy Dragon Age and get Dragon Armor for your character on Mass Effect.
This is one of THOUSANDS of examples out there in the marketplace. It is a tactic that works, otherwise it would not be done.
Nuff said.
I said "alienate", not "kept from playing"
Nothing wrong with cross promoting if it is done correctly. The MU are a part of the Star Trek mythology, the dragon armor is not a part of Mass Effect mythology. Bioware got it right, Cryptic did not. If Cryptic had done what Bioware did they you would have unique CO uniforms to wear to show your investment in another Cryptic game in STO. In this case your argument is simply invalid.
According to SEVERAL people all you have to do is contact billing, and everything will be fixed.
And it doesn't even cost C-Points! Or Money!
No, this is a perfect example. This is an item that comes from ordering another game that is made to go into a different game. It fits even more so, because it is a clothing type.
Buy game "A", recieve clothing item for unrelated game "B" made by the same company
Let's compare:
Buy Lifetime preorder sub to Champions Online, receive Mirror Universe Uniform to wear in Star Trek Online
Company for both games: Cryptic
Buy Special edition of Dragon Age, receive Dragon space cosmetic armor for Mass Effect 2
Company for both games: Bioware
How is this different again? A cosmetic difference.. direction from one game to another. It is minor at best.
But if that won't satisfy you, I am sure we can dredge up hundreds of other gaming cross promotions until you find one that you are completely satisfied with.
The bottom line is this...
It has been done before.
The funny thing is that you are right. The Mass Effect - Dragon Age promotion is the perfect example (of the many possible examples) because it clearly supports my argument that the direction, in this case, is very important. It is in fact, the entire cause of the matter. No one would have made a single post if it were not.
Cryptic did nothing wrong in choosing to promote CO with a STO bonus, as many other companies have done before them. It is the direction from one game to another that Cryptic dropped the ball on and alienated many customers.
Then again a CO themed STO Uniform would not have gotten you to shell out $200+ dollars for a CO LTS. Be honest now...
Honestly I bought a Champs LT for a Champs LT, personally. Regardless, the MU uniform means that I bought a Champs LT and I play STO. That loses all meaning if anyone and their mother can just buy it from the Cstore for a few dollars.
I get that everyone loves the look, midriff is sexy. But why don't you guys go after the Enterprise MU uniforms instead, and let the Champs lifers have that unique identifier, whether you like it or not?
I'm all for opening up Champs LTs again and offering the MU with it. But leave it as something special, not something that everyone will have in a matter of weeks if they put it in the Cstore. They can open up who has access to them a little, but they should keep it representative of the fact that the people who have it have invested into Champions.
Mirror Universe outfits are from a whole other universe! And that universe isn't the universe we are playing along with in STO. Its very fitting that they come from Champs in that sense.
I shelled out the money because I play CO. I have 7 level 40 characters and am raising another right now (Cyborg swordsman). The uniform is a nice bonus. Once again, cross promotion has been done again and again.
No matter what my motives for buying the subscription to CO, they were still MY motives and I still spent my money. No matter if you feel my spending was justified in your eyes or not.
It does not matter to me or anybody else.
I am sure I could list tons of examples, if I spent the time looking them up. But I am also sure that you would shoot down every one of them as invalid, just to make your point.
This is a cross promotion. Game companies do it. It does not matter if you like how they do it.
So stop lawyering up on every detail and looking for an exact replica of this situation, because I doubt in all of gaming there are 2 deals exactly alike. This is just how the industry works.
It is a common practice.
And that is a fact.
This thread can now be closed!