Do these figures "cap?" For example, on my engineer with the Warp Theorist trait, will I be getting a bonus if I boost Warp Core Potential from level 7 to 9, resulting in a stat of +109, or will it stay at +99? What about Efficient Captain?
BTW, this is really awesome. I've only been on STO a month and trying to piece together the calculations myself for the past two weeks or so. It's nice to see at least some of my theories have been validated, and thanks for making this neat tool!
Do these figures "cap?" For example, on my engineer with the Warp Theorist trait, will I be getting a bonus if I boost Warp Core Potential from level 7 to 9, resulting in a stat of +109, or will it stay at +99? What about Efficient Captain?
BTW, this is really awesome. I've only been on STO a month and trying to piece together the calculations myself for the past two weeks or so. It's nice to see at least some of my theories have been validated, and thanks for making this neat tool!
There is no cap on your skill level. 109 is possible, sure.
There is a hard cap on the resulting power levels. You can not have power levels go above 125.
Glad you're finding the info useful. The updated spreadsheet will be Coming Soon.
Do these figures "cap?" For example, on my engineer with the Warp Theorist trait, will I be getting a bonus if I boost Warp Core Potential from level 7 to 9, resulting in a stat of +109, or will it stay at +99? What about Efficient Captain?
BTW, this is really awesome. I've only been on STO a month and trying to piece together the calculations myself for the past two weeks or so. It's nice to see at least some of my theories have been validated, and thanks for making this neat tool!
Cryptic generally doesn't hard cap anything as a rule. . What they will is use diminishing returns with skills bonus total. Or they will limit the number of things sources of buffs (i.e. slotted DOFF/BOFFS or Console slots). Basically so long as you as able to add to the skill bonus total, you'll get some benefit from it.
I don't think they'd added sort of soft cap to the ship power skills. The sources for skill bonus are limited. (i.e. Captain and slotted Boff traits and ranks in Captain skills)
Thanks for the information so far. Particular thanks to PatricianVetinari, and looking forward to seeing your finished work. Finding information relevant to post-Season 5 changes is still quite difficult. I'm still pretty new to this game and though I enjoy researching and calculating game systems, I could see plenty of people being put-off by the complexity and lack of information.
Using the formula PatricianVetinari has provided, I've been playing around with a very messy spreadsheet of my own. I know a lot of people will balk at the idea of this much maths, so for some a simple answer might help.
Warp Core Efficiency (WCE):
Tier 2 (Lt. Commander); 1,500 skill points per rank.
Power distributed among lower-powered systems. Total benefit varies depending on power settings.
Ranks 1-3 give a total of 3.4 to 4.2 power per rank. No brainer.
Ranks 4-6 give a total of 1.9 to 2.3 power per rank. Definitely worth it.
Ranks 7-9 give a total of 0.9 to 1.2 power per rank. Definitely worth it.
Warp Core Potential (WCP):
Tier 3 (Commander); 2,000 skill points per rank.
Equal boost to all systems. Boost is small, but synergises very well with WCE and rounds off fractions left by Performance skills (see below).
Ranks 1-3 give 0.9 power per system per rank; 3.6 power total. No brainer.
Ranks 4-6 give 0.5 power per system per rank; 2 power total. Definitely worth it.
Ranks 7-9 give 0.25 power per system per rank; 1 power total. Worth it.
Starship <system> Performance (SXP):
Engine (SEP) and Shield (SSP) are Tier 4 (Captain); 2,500 skill points per rank.
Auxiliary (SAP) and Weapon (SWP) are Tier 5 (Admiral); 3,000 skill points per rank.
Large boost to a single system.
Ranks 1-3 give 1.8 power per rank. Definitely worth it.
Ranks 4-6 give 1.0 power per rank. Worth it.
Ranks 7-9 give 0.5 power per rank. Probably not worth it.
Fractions are hidden within the game, but do apply across the different skills. The way things work out, at 6 ranks of a SXP skill you get approximately 8.4 power in the relevant system. 9 ranks in WCP will give you approximately 4.9 to all systems, so together you get 13.3 power (visible as 13 in the game). The boost from WCE will vary from nothing (on systems set to 75 or higher) to 9.3 (on systems set to 25). Most of the time, another 0.5 from a 7th rank of SXP will not result in reaching another full point, hence I don't think it's worth the skill points.
Note that Efficient Captain and/or a Bridge Officer with the Efficient perk, while definitely useful, do not significantly change these results.
Warp Core Efficiency and Warp Core Potential are cheap. Max 'em. At worst you'll be wasting 1,500 skill points. If you're that worried about optimising your 300,000 Space Skill Points, then simple answers are not for you!
Up until 6 ranks of a System Performance skill (Starship Engine Performance, Starship Shield Performance, etc.) you get 1 or 2 points of power per rank. Well worth the higher skill cost, get them all to 6. Beyond this, ranks only yield points if you're lucky with rounding errors, so again we're beyond the scope of a simple answer.
In summary:
Warp Core Efficiency to rank 9.
Warp Core Potential to rank 9.
All four System Performance skills to rank 6.
Ok, I've done testing on Tribble, and now Holodeck, with a couple of my characters, including those with and without Power enhancing traits, various ranks/skill levels, and ships/devices. I'm fairly confident this is a workable Unified Power Formula:
((WCE/533.33)*max(75-Power,0))+(WCP/20)+(XP/9.99)
WCE = Warp Core Efficiency
WCP = Warp Core Potential
XP = Subsystem X Performance
I have started revamping the spreadsheet, and hope to have it completed and posted in the next couple days.
Weird. I got other results. Doesnt matter on which powerlevel, to me it gives always +10 at max lvl of the skill.
Apart from this: I tested every lvl of the skills and got different results for some lvls of the skill on a fed/kdf char.
Example:
+2 +1 +2 +1 +1 +1 +1 +0 +1 ---> Federation Engineer Shield Performance
+2 +2 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +0 +1 ---> Federation Tactical Shield Performance
+2 +2 +2 +1 +1 +1 +0 +1 +0 ---> Klingon Engineer Engine Performance <--- wouldnt make any sense to take the last lvl
I dont really get why the skills behave different from each other. Every Performance skill should give the same results.
The differences you are seeing are during to rounding (or truncation. don't know which) when power is displayed. You have to be very careful and account for bit of power bonus. It's best eliminate any power bonus before doing your testing.
What Mr. Fun Zone says could very well be the deal, uh, sorry, I mean fuzun. (Heh, whenever I read one of fuzun's posts I always pronounce it "Fun Zone" in my head ).
Also, I wonder if any of your characters are Efficient (or have Efficient BOs), Warp Theorists, or Joined Trill Symbiotes. These traits will bump the power levels a slight amount, providing just enough to extra power to push the increase over the "Round Down" effect of the UI display.
It also could be your equipment. An Aegis Shield, for example...
I've been testing the Power Calc I've got on each of my characters (I've got 18) and so far it's been spot on. It's nearly done, I'm just re-working some of the formatting. Once I get the Calc done, I'd encourage you to try it out and see if it matches your complete build at that point.
What Mr. Fun Zone says could very well be the deal, uh, sorry, I mean fuzun. (Heh, whenever I read one of fuzun's posts I always pronounce it "Fun Zone" in my head ).
If you must know, it's pronounced few-zhun (Fusion). Fusion is the name I wanted for the City of Hero's closed beta. But of couse the name was already taken. So I came up with Fuzun. He was going to be a through away character to just learn the game. But I really got to like the big lug, so he became my first character, my first level 50, and my handle.
I'm sorry if I misunderstand your work, but I am not seeing the same results.
I am a level 19 Lt Cmdr. I have SS WCE maxed, and, along with two consoles for +1.8 Weap and +1.5 Shield Power, and Warp Theorist Captain, on the Cruiser Refit, My power levels are 106/56/30/30
That's roughly half the increase I should be seeing. Does the increase scale with level?
I'm sorry if I misunderstand your work, but I am not seeing the same results... My power levels are 106/56/30/30...
Make sure you're looking at your settings while in System Space. If you're on the ground or in Sector Space the UI doesn't properly report the boosts from your traits, skills, etc.
Hey guys, I really wanted to have it up this last weekend, but I fell victim to some "flu" (aka The Plague of Doom, apparently) that had me down for most the week (Yeah, no kidding!). I now hope to get something up this upcoming weekend (by 03/04). Worse case, I'll get it up "as-is" in a sort of "Beta" version. It's 95% done/functional, it's just missing some devices/equipment (there are so many new items/consoles, etc.).
STOPowerCalc.xls v5.0.01 Beta for Season 5 is (finally) here. Sorry for the delay/inconvenience. I've also re-written the OP to be compatible with Season 5.
Release Notes:
- Evaluated and tested all new power skills. Calculated a new "Unified Power Formula."
Rebuilt the entire calculator around this new formula:
((WCE/533.33)*max(75-Power,0))+(WCP/20)+(XP/9.99)
- Completely rebuilt the Skill list to conform to Season 5 skill changes.
- Completely rebuilt the Ship list:
- Added many new Fed, KDF, and Special ships.
- Split ships by specific Faction.
- Ships can now be selected by specific class.
- Rewrote tooltips to conform to new skill system.
- Various other formatting edits/updates.
Known Issues:
- The Breen Engine, Efficient Engine, Neodymium Deflector Dish, and the Transwarp Computer stats have not be properly updated/tested post-Season 5.
- The Calculator may be missing several new Consoles/Set pieces to be added later.
- Some of the tooltips (like for consoles) still need updating.
I hope you like the new ship selection process. I would appreciate any feedback you may on have on that, any of the other updates/changes, or if you find any problems/bugs. Also posts confirming the sheet reflects what you're seeing in game would be welcomed.
The numbers are all working out so far. Good job as always. I've been dying for this tool to be finished. IMO this is the most important tool for character builds. Looking forward to you adding the new items into the mix. I know that a lot of this work involved fixing old, outdated, and conflicting text. You've done a good job here too. However, the Excel comments for the ship equipment section suggest that's it's still possible to get plasma distrubution manifolds and such that offer bonuses over 3.5. That's a quick edit for the next version. Thanks again for all your work. I hope you're feeling better.
On a side note, it would be interesting to see how many respecs are performed now that this calculator is up-to-date.
Thanks for the kind words JolleyRogers, it pleases me you find it so useful!
What do you think of the new ship-selection "interface"?
I'd forgot the console tooltips. Thanks for the reminder. I've added it to the "known issues" area in the post above and made note to udpate it the next go. As for some of the other gear, I've also worked out how the Jem'Hadar Engine bonus functions, so that'll be on the next update too.
And yeah, I'm feelin' great. Just had the Flu from Hades last week... whew...
I wonder how many, if any, respecs I "cause" -- That would be an interesting thing to know...
Hmm that is really weird. I filled in everything and when I balance it in the game (in space) its
55/50
50/50
55/50
55/50
but the calculator tells me it should be this:
90/50
70/50
75/50
65/50
Can someone tell me whats going on? I checked every entry I made 5 times.
EDIT: Never mind. I was in Sector Space not actually on in a system. I apologize. But the values are still off by 1 :P. But very nice work. Keep it coming!
...EDIT: Never mind. I was in Sector Space not actually on in a system. I apologize. But the values are still off by 1 :P. But very nice work. Keep it coming!
Please tell me what you're stats are, what you're typing into the Calc, and which values specifically are off by one. This will help me fine-tune the formulas.
- Added New Federation and KDF Flagship C-Store Variants.
- Added Jem'Hadar Engines (Base +2.5 Weapons, with "Efficiency"-based bonus up to +5)
- Updated Engineering Console Tooltips. (Thanks for the reminder JolleyRogers!)
- Alphabatized KDF Specific Classes ship names.
- Restored function to Neodymium Deflector Dish selection.
- Updated Shield Stat Link. (New Link)
- Various other minor formatting edits/updates.
Known Issues:
- The Breen Engine, Efficient Engine, and the Transwarp Computer stats have not be properly updated/tested post-Season 5.
- The Calculator may be missing several new Consoles/Set pieces to be added later.
Congrats to Superphat for winning my little Secret Easter Egg hunt. I'll get that Rare-Quality GQ Resolve-traited DOff mailed to you this weekend when next I'm in game.
Thanks for using my Power Calc and taking the time to read the About Page.
No longer in Beta, as I think this latest calc provides all the features of the Pre-S5 Calc, and the formulas all seem to hold up. I also retested and made new calculations for the Efficient & Breen Engines (which, like the Jem'Hadar Engine, do not provide flat buffs, rather their buffs vary on your power settings), so these are now functional options.
The nice thing about doing all these formulations myself (instead of depending on others as I did with my original calcuator) is that I understand things more clearly. I can also better control the output. For example, I think I was able to tweak one of the numbers that caused a "rounding" issue, but really was a "calculation" issue (in the fourth decimal! :eek:).
So yeah, if you guys ever notice the calculator being off, please, please give me your relevant info (what you typed into the green fields, what the Calc showed in the blue, and what you saw in-game), and I should be able to fine-tune things on the next update.
Release Notes:
- Added Transwarp Computer (VA50, +23 Starship Warp Core Efficiency).
- Rebuilt calculations for, and restored function to, the Efficient Impulse Engine.
- Rebuilt calculations for, and restored function to, the Breen Supercooled Combat Impulse Engine.
- Rearranged the display on the Shields tab.
- Removed "Beta" designation.
- Various other minor spelling, grammar, formatting edits/updates.
Known Issue:
Based on what I read in Transwarp Computer's tooltip its skill level scales with the character's level. I only have access to a Level 50 (VA) Transwarp Computer, so only know that grants a +23 to Startship Warp Core Efficiency. If anyone has a lower leveled one can tell me their level and the associated buffs, I can add that to the Calc. Until then it will be hard-coded in at L50.
Comments
BTW, this is really awesome. I've only been on STO a month and trying to piece together the calculations myself for the past two weeks or so. It's nice to see at least some of my theories have been validated, and thanks for making this neat tool!
There is a hard cap on the resulting power levels. You can not have power levels go above 125.
Glad you're finding the info useful. The updated spreadsheet will be Coming Soon.
Cryptic generally doesn't hard cap anything as a rule. . What they will is use diminishing returns with skills bonus total. Or they will limit the number of things sources of buffs (i.e. slotted DOFF/BOFFS or Console slots). Basically so long as you as able to add to the skill bonus total, you'll get some benefit from it.
I don't think they'd added sort of soft cap to the ship power skills. The sources for skill bonus are limited. (i.e. Captain and slotted Boff traits and ranks in Captain skills)
Using the formula PatricianVetinari has provided, I've been playing around with a very messy spreadsheet of my own. I know a lot of people will balk at the idea of this much maths, so for some a simple answer might help.
Warp Core Efficiency (WCE):
Tier 2 (Lt. Commander); 1,500 skill points per rank.
Power distributed among lower-powered systems. Total benefit varies depending on power settings.
Ranks 1-3 give a total of 3.4 to 4.2 power per rank. No brainer.
Ranks 4-6 give a total of 1.9 to 2.3 power per rank. Definitely worth it.
Ranks 7-9 give a total of 0.9 to 1.2 power per rank. Definitely worth it.
Warp Core Potential (WCP):
Tier 3 (Commander); 2,000 skill points per rank.
Equal boost to all systems. Boost is small, but synergises very well with WCE and rounds off fractions left by Performance skills (see below).
Ranks 1-3 give 0.9 power per system per rank; 3.6 power total. No brainer.
Ranks 4-6 give 0.5 power per system per rank; 2 power total. Definitely worth it.
Ranks 7-9 give 0.25 power per system per rank; 1 power total. Worth it.
Starship <system> Performance (SXP):
Engine (SEP) and Shield (SSP) are Tier 4 (Captain); 2,500 skill points per rank.
Auxiliary (SAP) and Weapon (SWP) are Tier 5 (Admiral); 3,000 skill points per rank.
Large boost to a single system.
Ranks 1-3 give 1.8 power per rank. Definitely worth it.
Ranks 4-6 give 1.0 power per rank. Worth it.
Ranks 7-9 give 0.5 power per rank. Probably not worth it.
Fractions are hidden within the game, but do apply across the different skills. The way things work out, at 6 ranks of a SXP skill you get approximately 8.4 power in the relevant system. 9 ranks in WCP will give you approximately 4.9 to all systems, so together you get 13.3 power (visible as 13 in the game). The boost from WCE will vary from nothing (on systems set to 75 or higher) to 9.3 (on systems set to 25). Most of the time, another 0.5 from a 7th rank of SXP will not result in reaching another full point, hence I don't think it's worth the skill points.
Note that Efficient Captain and/or a Bridge Officer with the Efficient perk, while definitely useful, do not significantly change these results.
Warp Core Efficiency and Warp Core Potential are cheap. Max 'em. At worst you'll be wasting 1,500 skill points. If you're that worried about optimising your 300,000 Space Skill Points, then simple answers are not for you!
Up until 6 ranks of a System Performance skill (Starship Engine Performance, Starship Shield Performance, etc.) you get 1 or 2 points of power per rank. Well worth the higher skill cost, get them all to 6. Beyond this, ranks only yield points if you're lucky with rounding errors, so again we're beyond the scope of a simple answer.
In summary:
Warp Core Efficiency to rank 9.
Warp Core Potential to rank 9.
All four System Performance skills to rank 6.
Weird. I got other results. Doesnt matter on which powerlevel, to me it gives always +10 at max lvl of the skill.
Apart from this: I tested every lvl of the skills and got different results for some lvls of the skill on a fed/kdf char.
Example:
+2 +1 +2 +1 +1 +1 +1 +0 +1 ---> Federation Engineer Shield Performance
+2 +2 +1 +1 +1 +1 +1 +0 +1 ---> Federation Tactical Shield Performance
+2 +2 +2 +1 +1 +1 +0 +1 +0 ---> Klingon Engineer Engine Performance <--- wouldnt make any sense to take the last lvl
I dont really get why the skills behave different from each other. Every Performance skill should give the same results.
The differences you are seeing are during to rounding (or truncation. don't know which) when power is displayed. You have to be very careful and account for bit of power bonus. It's best eliminate any power bonus before doing your testing.
Also, I wonder if any of your characters are Efficient (or have Efficient BOs), Warp Theorists, or Joined Trill Symbiotes. These traits will bump the power levels a slight amount, providing just enough to extra power to push the increase over the "Round Down" effect of the UI display.
It also could be your equipment. An Aegis Shield, for example...
I've been testing the Power Calc I've got on each of my characters (I've got 18) and so far it's been spot on. It's nearly done, I'm just re-working some of the formatting. Once I get the Calc done, I'd encourage you to try it out and see if it matches your complete build at that point.
If you must know, it's pronounced few-zhun (Fusion). Fusion is the name I wanted for the City of Hero's closed beta. But of couse the name was already taken. So I came up with Fuzun. He was going to be a through away character to just learn the game. But I really got to like the big lug, so he became my first character, my first level 50, and my handle.
I am a level 19 Lt Cmdr. I have SS WCE maxed, and, along with two consoles for +1.8 Weap and +1.5 Shield Power, and Warp Theorist Captain, on the Cruiser Refit, My power levels are 106/56/30/30
That's roughly half the increase I should be seeing. Does the increase scale with level?
This...
and this also!
WOOT WOOT!! I can not wait.:D
I also need to re-write the OP...
...Oi.
Thanks for the patience and support.
Release Notes:
Rebuilt the entire calculator around this new formula:
((WCE/533.33)*max(75-Power,0))+(WCP/20)+(XP/9.99)
- Completely rebuilt the Skill list to conform to Season 5 skill changes.
- Completely rebuilt the Ship list:
- Added many new Fed, KDF, and Special ships.
- Split ships by specific Faction.
- Ships can now be selected by specific class.
- Rewrote tooltips to conform to new skill system.
- Various other formatting edits/updates.
Known Issues:
- The Calculator may be missing several new Consoles/Set pieces to be added later.
- Some of the tooltips (like for consoles) still need updating.
I hope you like the new ship selection process. I would appreciate any feedback you may on have on that, any of the other updates/changes, or if you find any problems/bugs. Also posts confirming the sheet reflects what you're seeing in game would be welcomed.
Thanks and as alway, Enjoy!
On a side note, it would be interesting to see how many respecs are performed now that this calculator is up-to-date.
Let the respecs begin
What do you think of the new ship-selection "interface"?
I'd forgot the console tooltips. Thanks for the reminder. I've added it to the "known issues" area in the post above and made note to udpate it the next go. As for some of the other gear, I've also worked out how the Jem'Hadar Engine bonus functions, so that'll be on the next update too.
And yeah, I'm feelin' great. Just had the Flu from Hades last week... whew...
I wonder how many, if any, respecs I "cause" -- That would be an interesting thing to know...
55/50
50/50
55/50
55/50
but the calculator tells me it should be this:
90/50
70/50
75/50
65/50
Can someone tell me whats going on? I checked every entry I made 5 times.
EDIT: Never mind. I was in Sector Space not actually on in a system. I apologize. But the values are still off by 1 :P. But very nice work. Keep it coming!
-KaneCabal
Also, I can really appreciate your new signature.
I expect to have the Flagships added and the update available by Monday.
Release Notes:
- Added Jem'Hadar Engines (Base +2.5 Weapons, with "Efficiency"-based bonus up to +5)
- Updated Engineering Console Tooltips. (Thanks for the reminder JolleyRogers!)
- Alphabatized KDF Specific Classes ship names.
- Restored function to Neodymium Deflector Dish selection.
- Updated Shield Stat Link. (New Link)
- Various other minor formatting edits/updates.
Known Issues:
- The Calculator may be missing several new Consoles/Set pieces to be added later.
Enjoy!
Thanks for using my Power Calc and taking the time to read the About Page.
:cool:
No longer in Beta, as I think this latest calc provides all the features of the Pre-S5 Calc, and the formulas all seem to hold up. I also retested and made new calculations for the Efficient & Breen Engines (which, like the Jem'Hadar Engine, do not provide flat buffs, rather their buffs vary on your power settings), so these are now functional options.
The nice thing about doing all these formulations myself (instead of depending on others as I did with my original calcuator) is that I understand things more clearly. I can also better control the output. For example, I think I was able to tweak one of the numbers that caused a "rounding" issue, but really was a "calculation" issue (in the fourth decimal! :eek:).
So yeah, if you guys ever notice the calculator being off, please, please give me your relevant info (what you typed into the green fields, what the Calc showed in the blue, and what you saw in-game), and I should be able to fine-tune things on the next update.
Release Notes:
- Rebuilt calculations for, and restored function to, the Efficient Impulse Engine.
- Rebuilt calculations for, and restored function to, the Breen Supercooled Combat Impulse Engine.
- Rearranged the display on the Shields tab.
- Removed "Beta" designation.
- Various other minor spelling, grammar, formatting edits/updates.
Known Issue:
Enjoy!
- The Jem'Hadar has a +15 bonus to weapons ingame (not +10 and +5 to engines as posted in the Dev Blog)
- The Info links got mixed up starting with D40 (link to efficient Impulse Engine, should be in D41, Breen Engine is missing)
The calculations work fine, many thanks for adjusting the spreadsheet to season 5.