Actually I had said it needs to be tweaked, not that it shouldn't be difficult. Difficulty != frustrating and aggravating. Also concentrating this on ground combat was a massive mistake considering it's the most hated mechanic of the game next to Memory Alpha.
When the death penalty comes these types of end content are going to do nothing but drive most people away from even attempting them since most PUGs die at least twenty times just getting to the final boss. Perhaps some of my distaste of the mission comes from the groups I've tried it in...I can't say since it always seems to be the same regardless and pugging is my only real option. I've taken a break from trying it since about Friday/Saturday though.
I never felt the mechanics of the instance were that difficult to begin with, but that's only if you ignore all the deaths you almost have to endure to reach the bosses. There's practically no pug science officers that go the healing route because the rest of the game people just have their BOffs do that for them.
I will say that the majority of your playerbase not being able to complete the only content you really have to do at end game might not be the best plan.
And what proof do you have that "a majority of the playerbase" can't finish it? The same three people posting topics over and over again asking for it to be nerfed so they can finish it in twenty minutes solo?
Well it goes beyond being a hard mode raid. Even those in other games are fun. By the time you get to the good stuff on Infected the entire party is burned out from throwing themselves at the Borg for 2 plus hours just to move 200m.
It isnt really "hard". As in challenging. Its "hard" as in just fighting an exponential amount of borg to the point that it ruins the fun factor of a raid. I am a raider in other games. I love the challenging boss fights and strategy involved. The first 80% of Infected is just fighting waves and waves and waves of borg. Fighting to get to the interlinks to destroy them. It takes 4 on up wipes per interlink because the number of the borg are just way to staggering for just 5 people to do.
Its not that the borg in infected are any different from the borg else where. Its just the sheer numbers of them and the spacing of mobs of borg so close to each other and the patrol range and the lack of borg resetting to where they mob after a wipe. Not to mention their super human athletic abilities such as running a 8 second 100 and jumping 40 feet in the air to avoid plasma and barriers to get to you.
Cryptic is changing it at least on tribble. AI is still funny. I just want to have fun. Infected gives you the feeling that doing raids every week for 6 months give you, its just after the first go.
I just wanted to throw it in that i have ONLY done Infected in PuGs, and never using vent. And i have completed it probably more times than i can count on two hands. Yes, i have been in groups that quit because of it's difficulty. But that is almost always because one of my "rules" i talked about in http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2377368&postcount=30 was broken or not followed. Once i was able to provide #1. Infected is a breeze as long as everyone on the same page. So stop complaining that it is too hard or needs to be tweaked.
Well it goes beyond being a hard mode raid. Even those in other games are fun. By the time you get to the good stuff on Infected the entire party is burned out from throwing themselves at the Borg for 2 plus hours just to move 200m.
It isnt really "hard". As in challenging. Its "hard" as in just fighting an exponential amount of borg to the point that it ruins the fun factor of a raid. I am a raider in other games. I love the challenging boss fights and strategy involved. The first 80% of Infected is just fighting waves and waves and waves of borg. Fighting to get to the interlinks to destroy them. It takes 4 on up wipes per interlink because the number of the borg are just way to staggering for just 5 people to do.
Its not that the borg in infected are any different from the borg else where. Its just the sheer numbers of them and the spacing of mobs of borg so close to each other and the patrol range and the lack of borg resetting to where they mob after a wipe. Not to mention their super human athletic abilities such as running a 8 second 100 and jumping 40 feet in the air to avoid plasma and barriers to get to you.
Cryptic is changing it at least on tribble. AI is still funny. I just want to have fun. Infected gives you the feeling that doing raids every week for 6 months give you, its just after the first go.
And no. You can make it to the queen without wiping quite easily. it certainly doesnt take 4 full respawns to kill each node. Think Occam's Rzor.....and in this case. You are doing it wrong :rolleyes:
And no. You can make it to the queen without wiping quite easily. it certainly doesnt take 4 full respawns to kill each node. Think Occam's Rzor.....and in this case. You are doing it wrong :rolleyes:
They hate being told they're doing it wrong.
Too bad it's true.
My most successful runthrough had no deaths whatsoever until we made it to the final room.
Why is it when an MMO is giving something challenging that some people will always complain about it and want it nerfed? Why can't those who enjoy the challenge play it and those who don't go about their way and enjoy the 95-99% of the other in-game content?
What is that down there..
Dogbert: 63% of all statistics are made up... including this one.
Why is it when an MMO is giving something challenging that some people will always complain about it and want it nerfed? Why can't those who enjoy the challenge play it and those who don't go about their way and enjoy the 95-99% of the other in-game content?
What is that down there..
Dogbert: 63% of all statistics are made up... including this one.
Hmmm.
The frustrating part is that some people were laughing off the raidisode before it was launched as if it was a foregone conclusion that it would be too easy.
And what proof do you have that "a majority of the playerbase" can't finish it? The same three people posting topics over and over again asking for it to be nerfed so they can finish it in twenty minutes solo?
I could flip that and ask you the same thing. Show me proof that the majority are completing it. Considering out of the dozen groups I've tried it in, not a single one managed to complete it I'd say that I'm more likely to be right than you would be. Also the majority of the group advertising for that mission involve people who are having to try and pick back up from where a previous group failed.
how about the hundreds of forum posts and people ingame that are constantly "LFG Deeper into the Mystery" ingame?
Deeper into the Mystery = hey we failed to complete it.
I haven't been bailing on any of those groups that I was in and stuck it out until the group collectively gave it up despite wanting to rip my hair out trying to find someone's body in the plasma for the 10th time and then having to reset because someone's body is out of LoS or they're just stuck in a place they can't manage to get out of when they do get revived.
The closest I think I've personally gotten I sat there and had to solo the final boss from almost the start of her coming out for a good 5 minutes until someone convinced me that they were close enough to be revived without me getting destroyed and it got me killed.
i completed it once and i enjoy going back every once in awhile and having a go for a bit but it does get boring to me in PUGs. If i could find a fleet to do it with i would enjoy it more.
If you dont like doing it, dont do it.
The fact that Cryptic have made this raidisode does not mean they are not making content for the casual player it will be coming.
You really annoy me OP it is one mission that you dont even have to do. If it wasnt in or was easy to complete, the fact that there is no other content for casual players means you would be in the same exact situation that you are now and we are forced to wait for more content at RA5.
I could flip that and ask you the same thing. Show me proof that the majority are completing it. Considering out of the dozen groups I've tried it in, not a single one managed to complete it I'd say that I'm more likely to be right than you would be. Also the majority of the group advertising for that mission involve people who are having to try and pick back up from where a previous group failed.
Like this:
Deeper into the Mystery = hey we failed to complete it.
I haven't been bailing on any of those groups that I was in and stuck it out until the group collectively gave it up despite wanting to rip my hair out trying to find someone's body in the plasma for the 10th time and then having to reset because someone's body is out of LoS or they're just stuck in a place they can't manage to get out of when they do get revived.
The closest I think I've personally gotten I sat there and had to solo the final boss from almost the start of her coming out for a good 5 minutes until someone convinced me that they were close enough to be revived without me getting destroyed and it got me killed.
You message me in the game. I will take your through personally with a PuG. We will get to the Queen, and beat it. You make it all out to be grander than it really is. There is not point in arguing whether there are more casual v. hardcore. it only takes 1 "hardcore" or knowledgeable person to help our 4 casual players on Infected. Take some time to actually read my post, earlier in the thread
I at first was against the hardcore content cryptic was providing. But it was wrong of me to presume that my taste reflect others. That said, I attempted Infected once the first day with a fleet team and have not bothered going back. I am not interested in that type of focused team play.
As a casual and a roleplayer I will let my subscription dollars speak on my behalf. If I do not see a vast improvement of solo and pug friendly content from cryptic for RA 5 Federation and Klingon players I can promise cryptic my money to them will stop.
Coderanger, your link to strawman was distasteful, smug and arrogant. First rule of customer service, the customer is always right. Even if you cannot oblige the customers request, you must be polite, informative and sincerely apologetic to the customer's plight.
Coderanger, your link to strawman was distasteful, smug and arrogant. First rule of customer service, the customer is always right. Even if you cannot oblige the customers request, you must be polite, informative and sincerely apologetic to the customer's plight.
Coderanger is a developer not customer service.
His link was honest. He spoke no words against anything other than to state what the argument was.
How Coderanger should have responded, "While we greatly appreciate your opinion on the matter we unfortunately cannot agree."
Posting a link to strawman is Like Toyota posting a link to Midas when asked about their brake problem. You don't shrug a customer off like that, you show personal concern and the willingness to invest time to reply to the customer yourself.
How Coderanger should have responded, "While we greatly appreciate your opinion on the matter we unfortunately cannot agree."
Posting a link to strawman is Like Toyota posting a link to Midas when asked about their brake problem. You don't shrug a customer off like that, you show personal concern and the willingness to invest time to reply to the customer yourself.
If you want canned PR responses, I'm definitely the wrong guy to go to :-) I'm both a person and gamer, and will converse as such. Yes, you guys are customers and your sub fees pay my salary, and we here are all very appreciative of that fact, but I'm still going to speak for myself and say what is on my mind.
To answer the original question some more: yes, there are bugs in Infected and they are being fixed. We will then find new bugs, and then we will fix those too. Difficulty silders are something being looked into which might help with making Infected suitable for somewhat less raid-crazy players, but I doubt we will have a slider that makes it soleable. At that point it would be a different mission. That isn't to say that a solo borg story mission isn't a good idea, it just isn't this mission. Infected is only the first in a long line of content that is coming down the pipeline. I will also tak this opportunity to point out that the best place to influence new content is not on Holodeck, but on Tribble, while it is still being worked on (at least as far as this kind of overarching stuff). Just remember that just because you don't like Infected doesn't mean there aren't plenty for whom it is just what they wanted, and sometimes we have to make them happy too. ::grouphug::
If you want canned PR responses, I'm definitely the wrong guy to go to :-) I'm both a person and gamer, and will converse as such. Yes, you guys are customers and your sub fees pay my salary, and we here are all very appreciative of that fact, but I'm still going to speak for myself and say what is on my mind.
To answer the original question some more: yes, there are bugs in Infected and they are being fixed. We will then find new bugs, and then we will fix those too. Difficulty silders are something being looked into which might help with making Infected suitable for somewhat less raid-crazy players, but I doubt we will have a slider that makes it soleable. At that point it would be a different mission. That isn't to say that a solo borg story mission isn't a good idea, it just isn't this mission. Infected is only the first in a long line of content that is coming down the pipeline. I will also tak this opportunity to point out that the best place to influence new content is not on Holodeck, but on Tribble, while it is still being worked on (at least as far as this kind of overarching stuff). Just remember that just because you don't like Infected doesn't mean there aren't plenty for whom it is just what they wanted, and sometimes we have to make them happy too. ::grouphug::
I enjoyed infected and beat it in one try with a pug. The folks in my group had some experience in it but no one was an uber gamer. Keep bringing group missions like infected so I can meet folks and use teamwork. It really wss just damn fun, plain and simple.
Just remember that just because you don't like Infected doesn't mean there aren't plenty for whom it is just what they wanted, and sometimes we have to make them happy too. ::grouphug::
Exactly, thank you. I love the challenge. I love it so much that I'm repeating it whenever possible with my fleet and skilled pug people. I even wrote a 3,349 word strategy guide on it for my fleet (private just for them, and yes that's an exact word count).
If you want canned PR responses, I'm definitely the wrong guy to go to :-) I'm both a person and gamer, and will converse as such. Yes, you guys are customers and your sub fees pay my salary, and we here are all very appreciative of that fact, but I'm still going to speak for myself and say what is on my mind.
To answer the original question some more: yes, there are bugs in Infected and they are being fixed. We will then find new bugs, and then we will fix those too. Difficulty silders are something being looked into which might help with making Infected suitable for somewhat less raid-crazy players, but I doubt we will have a slider that makes it soleable. At that point it would be a different mission. That isn't to say that a solo borg story mission isn't a good idea, it just isn't this mission. Infected is only the first in a long line of content that is coming down the pipeline. I will also tak this opportunity to point out that the best place to influence new content is not on Holodeck, but on Tribble, while it is still being worked on (at least as far as this kind of overarching stuff). Just remember that just because you don't like Infected doesn't mean there aren't plenty for whom it is just what they wanted, and sometimes we have to make them happy too. ::grouphug::
One dose not have to be less then human or not passionate about a product type to respond in a fashion that reflects a professional business. And you didn't converse, you linked, implying your time is too valuable to warrant a personal response. Like PR or not, remember your not posting as an individual, you are posting on behalf of a company that employs you.
As to Infected, I already stated I have no issues with raiders getting quality raid content. As a paying customer I am only looking for information regarding the type of gameplay I enjoy. I expect less then savory replies to my inquiries from some of my fellow customers, but nothing less then professionalism from anyone representing Cryptic.
well i had many attemps in doin the infected and no success yet lol , i believe it was not team work problem, but of course the first time i did it it was really team work problem...
but as i keep on doin the infected i noticed i get used to knocking the borg down, and team cooperation with anyone has improved since my 1st time doin it...
so, i kinda realized the longer i waste my time in the mission i enjoy it despite of the bugs and i got trapped many times in the shield generator, i was putting all my frustrations in killing the borg is like killing an cryptic staff member that developed the mission thats not doin anything to change it geeze the infected is like punishment..lol
The mission is very fun, I love pugging and doing it.
Now to fix your problem. If you stuck in a shield, don't run, just walk normal, press the controls so your walking against the shield and as you walking against the shield scraping it make your character walk around the shield pressing against it. This gets me out every time.
As for the generator shield in the middle. You want to get trapped in that one when it goes back up.
One dose not have to be less then human or not passionate about a product type to respond in a fashion that reflects a professional business. And you didn't converse, you linked, implying your time is too valuable to warrant a personal response. Like PR or not, remember your not posting as an individual, you are posting on behalf of a company that employs you.
As to Infected, I already stated I have no issues with raiders getting quality raid content. As a paying customer I am only looking for information regarding the type of gameplay I enjoy. I expect less then savory replies to my inquiries from some of my fellow customers, but nothing less then professionalism from anyone representing Cryptic.
You're coming off as rather full of yourself, Thrax. This is not a corporate PR board, these are chat forums. Around here we get to chat with and get information from the developers, but these are not PR drones that have to spew 'yes, sirs' and 'no, sirs' and 'gosh, we're sorrys' to everybody regardless of whether they have a valid complaint or are simply brainless entitlement whiners. These are the people in the trenches who write the games, maintain the support systems, design the art, write the missions and only some are in anything resembling Public Relations. Coderanger, one of the most communicative devs on these forums, saw a classic straw man argument and he called the poster on it, end of story.
Furthermore, I would dearly like to go back in time to find the IDIOT who coined the phrase "The customer is always right" and throttle him. That one philosophy has done more harm to people on the front lines of customer service than any other brain dropping in history.
You're coming off as rather full of yourself, Thrax. This is not a corporate PR board, these are chat forums. Around here we get to chat with and get information from the developers, but these are not PR drones that have to spew 'yes, sirs' and 'no, sirs' and 'gosh, we're sorrys' to everybody regardless of whether they have a valid complaint or are simply brainless entitlement whiners. These are the people in the trenches who write the games, maintain the support systems, design the art, write the missions and only some are in anything resembling Public Relations. Coderanger, one of the most communicative devs on these forums, saw a classic straw man argument and he called the poster on it, end of story.
Furthermore, I would dearly like to go back in time to find the IDIOT who coined the phrase "The customer is always right" and throttle him. That one philosophy has done more harm to people on the front lines of customer service than any other brain dropping in history.
As I said, sometimes you get less then savory replies from fellow customers.
Want to be treated like a professional business, act like one. Saying Coderanger "called" a customer out about a post he disagreed with is unprofessional. He should not have replied at all if he had nothing better to do then attack his Employer's customer.
Obviously you have a lacking in education regarding the history of capitalism. There was a time when companies could create things called monopolies. With a death-grip lock on a product they could do, say, and charge whatever they wanted for their services, often at great personal suffering of their customer base.
The front lines of customer service, you mean customers being rude to retail employees...isn't my whole argument about being civil and polite. Coderanger made an error in judgment, I clicked that link hoping for some insight about the game and what did I get...may as well have been TRIBBLE. Unprofessional.
One dose not have to be less then human or not passionate about a product type to respond in a fashion that reflects a professional business. And you didn't converse, you linked, implying your time is too valuable to warrant a personal response. Like PR or not, remember your not posting as an individual, you are posting on behalf of a company that employs you.
Sometimes you just need to stop focusing on people on the forums, regardless of whether they're another member or an employee. I think you're being a bit harsh.
The front lines of customer service, you mean customers being rude to retail employees...isn't my whole argument about being civil and polite. Coderanger made an error in judgment, I clicked that link hoping for some insight about the game and what did I get...may as well have been TRIBBLE. Unprofessional.
Are you going to stop playing the game because Coderanger posted that response?
If you are good riddance.
If not then it really doesnt matter you have turned your thread into another argument about nothing.
Not that it wasnt already.
The simple thing is they are making new content for all people just wait and see they cant do everything really quick making games takes time.
Comments
And what proof do you have that "a majority of the playerbase" can't finish it? The same three people posting topics over and over again asking for it to be nerfed so they can finish it in twenty minutes solo?
how about the hundreds of forum posts and people ingame that are constantly "LFG Deeper into the Mystery" ingame?
It isnt really "hard". As in challenging. Its "hard" as in just fighting an exponential amount of borg to the point that it ruins the fun factor of a raid. I am a raider in other games. I love the challenging boss fights and strategy involved. The first 80% of Infected is just fighting waves and waves and waves of borg. Fighting to get to the interlinks to destroy them. It takes 4 on up wipes per interlink because the number of the borg are just way to staggering for just 5 people to do.
Its not that the borg in infected are any different from the borg else where. Its just the sheer numbers of them and the spacing of mobs of borg so close to each other and the patrol range and the lack of borg resetting to where they mob after a wipe. Not to mention their super human athletic abilities such as running a 8 second 100 and jumping 40 feet in the air to avoid plasma and barriers to get to you.
Cryptic is changing it at least on tribble. AI is still funny. I just want to have fun. Infected gives you the feeling that doing raids every week for 6 months give you, its just after the first go.
hahahah, Coderanger FTW.
And no. You can make it to the queen without wiping quite easily. it certainly doesnt take 4 full respawns to kill each node. Think Occam's Rzor.....and in this case. You are doing it wrong :rolleyes:
They hate being told they're doing it wrong.
Too bad it's true.
My most successful runthrough had no deaths whatsoever until we made it to the final room.
What is that down there..
Dogbert: 63% of all statistics are made up... including this one.
Hmmm.
The frustrating part is that some people were laughing off the raidisode before it was launched as if it was a foregone conclusion that it would be too easy.
Oh well, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxdiraVxwkI
I could flip that and ask you the same thing. Show me proof that the majority are completing it. Considering out of the dozen groups I've tried it in, not a single one managed to complete it I'd say that I'm more likely to be right than you would be. Also the majority of the group advertising for that mission involve people who are having to try and pick back up from where a previous group failed.
Like this:
Deeper into the Mystery = hey we failed to complete it.
I haven't been bailing on any of those groups that I was in and stuck it out until the group collectively gave it up despite wanting to rip my hair out trying to find someone's body in the plasma for the 10th time and then having to reset because someone's body is out of LoS or they're just stuck in a place they can't manage to get out of when they do get revived.
The closest I think I've personally gotten I sat there and had to solo the final boss from almost the start of her coming out for a good 5 minutes until someone convinced me that they were close enough to be revived without me getting destroyed and it got me killed.
there is no other end-game content.
i completed it once and i enjoy going back every once in awhile and having a go for a bit but it does get boring to me in PUGs. If i could find a fleet to do it with i would enjoy it more.
If you dont like doing it, dont do it.
The fact that Cryptic have made this raidisode does not mean they are not making content for the casual player it will be coming.
You really annoy me OP it is one mission that you dont even have to do. If it wasnt in or was easy to complete, the fact that there is no other content for casual players means you would be in the same exact situation that you are now and we are forced to wait for more content at RA5.
You message me in the game. I will take your through personally with a PuG. We will get to the Queen, and beat it. You make it all out to be grander than it really is. There is not point in arguing whether there are more casual v. hardcore. it only takes 1 "hardcore" or knowledgeable person to help our 4 casual players on Infected. Take some time to actually read my post, earlier in the thread
True. Repeatables are all we have.
As a casual and a roleplayer I will let my subscription dollars speak on my behalf. If I do not see a vast improvement of solo and pug friendly content from cryptic for RA 5 Federation and Klingon players I can promise cryptic my money to them will stop.
Coderanger, your link to strawman was distasteful, smug and arrogant. First rule of customer service, the customer is always right. Even if you cannot oblige the customers request, you must be polite, informative and sincerely apologetic to the customer's plight.
Coderanger is a developer not customer service.
His link was honest. He spoke no words against anything other than to state what the argument was.
The fans wanted more feedback and interaction with the devs. They got it. What's the complaint? That he's human and interacting? :rolleyes:
Posting a link to strawman is Like Toyota posting a link to Midas when asked about their brake problem. You don't shrug a customer off like that, you show personal concern and the willingness to invest time to reply to the customer yourself.
To answer the original question some more: yes, there are bugs in Infected and they are being fixed. We will then find new bugs, and then we will fix those too. Difficulty silders are something being looked into which might help with making Infected suitable for somewhat less raid-crazy players, but I doubt we will have a slider that makes it soleable. At that point it would be a different mission. That isn't to say that a solo borg story mission isn't a good idea, it just isn't this mission. Infected is only the first in a long line of content that is coming down the pipeline. I will also tak this opportunity to point out that the best place to influence new content is not on Holodeck, but on Tribble, while it is still being worked on (at least as far as this kind of overarching stuff). Just remember that just because you don't like Infected doesn't mean there aren't plenty for whom it is just what they wanted, and sometimes we have to make them happy too. ::grouphug::
Thanks for the input, coderanger.
Exactly, thank you.
One dose not have to be less then human or not passionate about a product type to respond in a fashion that reflects a professional business. And you didn't converse, you linked, implying your time is too valuable to warrant a personal response. Like PR or not, remember your not posting as an individual, you are posting on behalf of a company that employs you.
As to Infected, I already stated I have no issues with raiders getting quality raid content. As a paying customer I am only looking for information regarding the type of gameplay I enjoy. I expect less then savory replies to my inquiries from some of my fellow customers, but nothing less then professionalism from anyone representing Cryptic.
The mission is very fun, I love pugging and doing it.
Now to fix your problem. If you stuck in a shield, don't run, just walk normal, press the controls so your walking against the shield and as you walking against the shield scraping it make your character walk around the shield pressing against it. This gets me out every time.
As for the generator shield in the middle. You want to get trapped in that one when it goes back up.
You're coming off as rather full of yourself, Thrax. This is not a corporate PR board, these are chat forums. Around here we get to chat with and get information from the developers, but these are not PR drones that have to spew 'yes, sirs' and 'no, sirs' and 'gosh, we're sorrys' to everybody regardless of whether they have a valid complaint or are simply brainless entitlement whiners. These are the people in the trenches who write the games, maintain the support systems, design the art, write the missions and only some are in anything resembling Public Relations. Coderanger, one of the most communicative devs on these forums, saw a classic straw man argument and he called the poster on it, end of story.
Furthermore, I would dearly like to go back in time to find the IDIOT who coined the phrase "The customer is always right" and throttle him. That one philosophy has done more harm to people on the front lines of customer service than any other brain dropping in history.
As I said, sometimes you get less then savory replies from fellow customers.
Want to be treated like a professional business, act like one. Saying Coderanger "called" a customer out about a post he disagreed with is unprofessional. He should not have replied at all if he had nothing better to do then attack his Employer's customer.
Obviously you have a lacking in education regarding the history of capitalism. There was a time when companies could create things called monopolies. With a death-grip lock on a product they could do, say, and charge whatever they wanted for their services, often at great personal suffering of their customer base.
The front lines of customer service, you mean customers being rude to retail employees...isn't my whole argument about being civil and polite. Coderanger made an error in judgment, I clicked that link hoping for some insight about the game and what did I get...may as well have been TRIBBLE. Unprofessional.
Sometimes you just need to stop focusing on people on the forums, regardless of whether they're another member or an employee. I think you're being a bit harsh.
Are you going to stop playing the game because Coderanger posted that response?
If you are good riddance.
If not then it really doesnt matter you have turned your thread into another argument about nothing.
Not that it wasnt already.
The simple thing is they are making new content for all people just wait and see they cant do everything really quick making games takes time.