PLEASE NO DEATH PENALTY!!! NO REAL LIFE TIME PENALTY!!!
Have you guys actually looked at the posts on the forums? There is no consensus on a death penalty. In fact I believe the numbers are overwhelmingly against it. Especially now as people hear about the likelihood of this going forward and are just starting to post. Most people besides the hardcore uberl33t and their cliches had no idea this was even on the table. This is something the MINORITY of players wants nothing more. And it is the beginning of remaking it into the hardcore Eve-type game many of them want to remake STO into. Would you please for god sake for the first time in MMO history do an ingame/launcher poll about such a sweeping change? I for one will simply walk away from the game over this one issue alone. I am tired of watching games I love be destroyed by the whiny, vocal minority of power-leveling, bored l33ts that seem to just float from game to game destroying them. Turning them into their own little private playgrounds for them and their little elite cliches. Never once have developers stood up for the real majority of players the casual gamers who are the backbone of their game. Why can't you stand by your own design principles and do something different that other MMOs. Does STO have to be nothing but a carbon copy of garbage from others with a thin veneer of Star Trek on top? There are many reasons I don't play any of the other MMOs. Ridiculous RL time penalty so-called death penalties are one of them.
I have been a loyal customer and stalwart defender of the game but if you go forward with this I will not spend another dime on any further products of either Cryptics or Atari. You are starting to make the same type of mistakes that SOE did with SWG, knee jerk reactions to whiners or forum trolls ....
One lifetime subscriber, c-store customer, 10 pre-order set buyer ready to walk away if death penalty goes into effect. I'll simply wait for the one MMO I think that sounds like they know what they are doing SW:TOR. I'm sorry to see you making such tragic game-breaking design decisions. I have enjoyed this game more than any other I have ever played. And I enjoy the Star Trek Universe very much. A death penalty does not add to this game or fun exciting fantasy universe in any way. And despite what many claim death penalties in reality break immersion, because people resent them, they eat up time most people don't have or cause resentment and friction because people are always having to wait on others. All death penalties are is an out-dated, poorly designed game delay tactic and in the end an unnecessary annoyance. They do not add anything the gaming experience, something I would think should be a requirement for any addition to the game. Does it add to the overall quality and enjoyment of the gaming experience? Why anyone would advocate a real life time penalty for the game-crime(?) of dying is beyond me. I for one have little enough time as it is without others trying to steal more time from me for no reason. This is a game breaker for me... None of the other awesome things you guys are working hard on make up for this one huge, huge mistake. What a sad, sad day.
Q.Of.The.Continuum
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
That is the most sincere, honest and well-written community response I have ever heard from an MMO developer. It helps to know that you guys/girls are really working on everything as hard as you can. I wish other companies would be as direct as that article and address the positives and negatives present in the community.
1. Mission locations can be hard to find. In each mission description, please include the sector block, sector, and the star system. This is a quick and easy thing to fix and its just a little typing, but it would eliminate a lot of needless frustration and wasted time spent searching.
2. Crafting at Memory Alpha needs to include some sort of progress bar that lets you know how close you are to unlocking the next level agent. And it would be nice if you could trade in several lower level pieces of data for a higher level piece.
3. More documentation. More documentation. More documentation.
I don;t think counting Free realms or Wizardry 101 is really fair, even WoW just about the most casual friendly MMORPG on the market has a death penalty.
you claim to listen to the community, but your insistence on steamrolling ahead on the DP issue while ignoring a sizable portion of the forum going playerbase is alarming.
this is the number one issue for me, that will decide if i will continue to sub to STO or not.
i am not a hardcore. i am not 1% player. i am your bread and butter trek fan audience.
there is no consensus among pro DP people, what they want range from negligible to a new level of harsh DP.
try to please a few of them and lose everyone who wants the game to stay as it is.
you can choose to be STO, or you can choose to be POTBS 2.
you claim to listen to the community, but your insistence on steamrolling ahead on the DP issue while ignoring a sizable portion of the forum going playerbase is alarming.
this is the number one issue for me, that will decide if i will continue to sub to STO or not.
i am not a hardcore. i am not 1% player. i am your bread and butter trek fan audience.
there is no consensus among pro DP people, what they want range from negligible to a new level of harsh DP.
try to please a few of them and lose everyone who wants the game to stay as it is.
you can choose to be STO, or you can choose to be POTBS 2.
Well, there actually are a few good reasons to put in a DP now, over some of the more pressing content issues:
DP is much easier to code and impliment
DP makes for a temporary time sink while the Devs can work on more content.
DP will actually help make STO's current economy worth something.
Death Penalty???? What have players done that deserve being penalized? If someone wants a death penalty let them decide what it is, don't force it on the rest of us.
I don't have an infinite amount of time to waste on waiting through a death penalty so I can get back to having fun with your game. If you want a casual game don't waste my time or I won't spend my time and money playing your game.
I don;t think counting Free realms or Wizardry 101 is really fair, even WoW just about the most casual friendly MMORPG on the market has a death penalty.
Oh, I'll actually be okay with some kind of death penalty myself. (I wrote in my last post in this thread that I like the idea of it being tied into the difficulty slider.) I've only died in STO once since launch (but a lot more during closed and open beta lol), so I'm not too overly concerned about what they decide to implement.
I just wanted to point out that almost does not mean all. I've never played Free realms or Wizardry 101, but, if they're MMOs, then there are MMOs without death penalties. I guess I'll have to see, along with everyone else.
Look people, if you're not ready for typical MMO mechanics, you shouldn't be playing a MMO.
Almost every MMO has some form of death penalty.
Just saying.
Or possibly one of the main reasons why people are playing THIS MMO and not some other MMO is because Cryptic did a few things better. Like NOT having a death penalty. Just because every game in a genre has an annoying mechanic doesn't mean this one needs to. It could be, you know... better. I know that when I signed up for yearly it was largely due to the casualness of the MMO. No skil cap and no death penalty. I'm feeling a bit baited and switched here.
Bravo Zulu Cryptic. Things are starting to look up. As a side note, it looks like the addition of a DP might fall into the catagory of the Gets and Don't Gets. I for one "Get It" and want to see some form of DP to make people think a bit more before they act. For those that just want the free One-Ups, go play Super Mario Bros.
As a player of this game I am pleased to hear of the updates, am looking forward to the new story line and the episodes it that follow them, however, please do not place a death penalty o in the game, yes, its up to the developers I know, and if they p[put one in, so be it, however, the current set up seems to be working fine as it is especially when you are on a limited play time. Once again thank you for the in-site of what you have in store for us all and like most,I'm along for the ride.
you claim to listen to the community, but your insistence on steamrolling ahead on the DP issue while ignoring a sizable portion of the forum going playerbase is alarming.
this is the number one issue for me, that will decide if i will continue to sub to STO or not.
i am not a hardcore. i am not 1% player. i am your bread and butter trek fan audience.
there is no consensus among pro DP people, what they want range from negligible to a new level of harsh DP.
try to please a few of them and lose everyone who wants the game to stay as it is.
you can choose to be STO, or you can choose to be POTBS 2.
Uh, its not just the community on these forums, its the professional gamer community as well...read the exceprts from the following reviews:
" Thus, as long as you don't try and engage a whole roomful of bad guys at once, you'll easily able to grind your way through the enemy hordes, especially considering the lack of a death penalty." 1UP.com
"There is no death penalty whatsoever--you just respawn and reenter the fray, no worse for the wear. The lack of a death penalty may sound appealing if you have dreaded memories of returning to your corpse in EverQuest, but here, it just makes an easy game even easier. Few fights offer the down-to-the-last-second kind of tension you'd hope for, and success is so inevitable that victory often rings hollow. You're just going through the motions without having to exercise the strategies you'd employ in the larger fleet actions. " - Gamespot
" Unfortunately, STO is simple and shallow. Ground combat is typically a two-button business, and the assistance of a bridge officer (STO's simplistic answer to MMORPG pets) drastically reduces your odds of dying. Not that kicking the bucket counts for anything: With no death penalty to discourage poor play, every encounter becomes a matter of perseverance... perseverance in the face of certain boredom." - Gamespy
etc.
Its remarkably basic...no risk, no thrill.
Kirk said it best:
"Risk... Risk is our business. That's what this starship is all about. That's why we're aboard her."
- Kirk
That is why I have proposed a consequence system with minigames (engineering types have to stop a warp core breach from a bridge console, etc.) in previous posts in this thread. It isnt punitive, it provides content and a consequence for jeopardizing your command.
I understand the want for a dealth penalty, however the level bug should be taken care of before that happens. There has been more than one occasion that I have warped into a deep space encounter and been instantly blown to bits by enemies that are (no kidding) +18 levels from me, and I'm in a same/or near level zone!
"We already know what you think about a death penalty, Craig but The Community really thinks it's a good idea and their opinion is more valid than yours because they probably don't own goats."
Please don't make the mistake of believing a small but vocal minority of players:
1. Are a majority. They are not.
2. Are better game designers than you are. They are not.
There are far, far too many situations in the game where death comes too easily and too often. I mean what the heck is the thinking behind having flagship gank fleets spawn-camping the warp-in point in sector defense maps, for example?
Eliminate the death zerg phenomenon, sure. Eliminate spawn camping -- by both players and NPCs, sure.
Make the game more tedious by introducing a gratuitous "death penalty" and graft it into a game that wasn't designed for it? Bad idea.
STO is new, and there is a lot of room for improvement in many aspects of the game. A "death penalty" isn't one of them.
Please don't misinterpret player sentiment and afflict STO with a "New Game Experience" so soon after launch.
It won't go any better for STO than it did for SWG.
thanks for this awesome address. it has always been apparent that the team is made up of true blue fans. and so i can say with confidence that it's obvious the next playable race will be the zakdorn.... or the exocomps.
OK ...in my humble opinion...idk what everyone else thinks, and frankl;y don't care...but i for one am profoundly AGAINST death penalties!!! rest assured, i don't care what else you do better, if you incorporate death penelties, my lifetime membership will go on ebay...guaranteed DO not incorporate death penelties.
What NEEDS to happen immediately is a higher lvl cap...no new content needs to be added for that change and it requires no more testing...just RAISE THE CAP...
Thanks for the info!
There has been more than one occasion that I have warped into a deep space encounter and been instantly blown to bits by enemies
Ditto on this one, especially in the romulan sector, enter any random (or get sucked into one as your flying to a planet and BOOM 8+ ships on you at once when the screen has loaded, and sometimes down to ½ already, its a pain so imagine with a death penalty.
Comments
Have you guys actually looked at the posts on the forums? There is no consensus on a death penalty. In fact I believe the numbers are overwhelmingly against it. Especially now as people hear about the likelihood of this going forward and are just starting to post. Most people besides the hardcore uberl33t and their cliches had no idea this was even on the table. This is something the MINORITY of players wants nothing more. And it is the beginning of remaking it into the hardcore Eve-type game many of them want to remake STO into. Would you please for god sake for the first time in MMO history do an ingame/launcher poll about such a sweeping change? I for one will simply walk away from the game over this one issue alone. I am tired of watching games I love be destroyed by the whiny, vocal minority of power-leveling, bored l33ts that seem to just float from game to game destroying them. Turning them into their own little private playgrounds for them and their little elite cliches. Never once have developers stood up for the real majority of players the casual gamers who are the backbone of their game. Why can't you stand by your own design principles and do something different that other MMOs. Does STO have to be nothing but a carbon copy of garbage from others with a thin veneer of Star Trek on top? There are many reasons I don't play any of the other MMOs. Ridiculous RL time penalty so-called death penalties are one of them.
I have been a loyal customer and stalwart defender of the game but if you go forward with this I will not spend another dime on any further products of either Cryptics or Atari. You are starting to make the same type of mistakes that SOE did with SWG, knee jerk reactions to whiners or forum trolls ....
One lifetime subscriber, c-store customer, 10 pre-order set buyer ready to walk away if death penalty goes into effect. I'll simply wait for the one MMO I think that sounds like they know what they are doing SW:TOR. I'm sorry to see you making such tragic game-breaking design decisions. I have enjoyed this game more than any other I have ever played. And I enjoy the Star Trek Universe very much. A death penalty does not add to this game or fun exciting fantasy universe in any way. And despite what many claim death penalties in reality break immersion, because people resent them, they eat up time most people don't have or cause resentment and friction because people are always having to wait on others. All death penalties are is an out-dated, poorly designed game delay tactic and in the end an unnecessary annoyance. They do not add anything the gaming experience, something I would think should be a requirement for any addition to the game. Does it add to the overall quality and enjoyment of the gaming experience? Why anyone would advocate a real life time penalty for the game-crime(?) of dying is beyond me. I for one have little enough time as it is without others trying to steal more time from me for no reason. This is a game breaker for me... None of the other awesome things you guys are working hard on make up for this one huge, huge mistake. What a sad, sad day.
Q.Of.The.Continuum
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
T.S. Eliot, "The Hollow Men" (1925)
Almost does not mean all.
Just saying.
That is the most sincere, honest and well-written community response I have ever heard from an MMO developer. It helps to know that you guys/girls are really working on everything as hard as you can. I wish other companies would be as direct as that article and address the positives and negatives present in the community.
You're all right Cryptic
1. Mission locations can be hard to find. In each mission description, please include the sector block, sector, and the star system. This is a quick and easy thing to fix and its just a little typing, but it would eliminate a lot of needless frustration and wasted time spent searching.
2. Crafting at Memory Alpha needs to include some sort of progress bar that lets you know how close you are to unlocking the next level agent. And it would be nice if you could trade in several lower level pieces of data for a higher level piece.
3. More documentation. More documentation. More documentation.
I don;t think counting Free realms or Wizardry 101 is really fair,
You know that is not a bad idea at all.
this is the number one issue for me, that will decide if i will continue to sub to STO or not.
i am not a hardcore. i am not 1% player. i am your bread and butter trek fan audience.
there is no consensus among pro DP people, what they want range from negligible to a new level of harsh DP.
try to please a few of them and lose everyone who wants the game to stay as it is.
you can choose to be STO, or you can choose to be POTBS 2.
Agreed! Bad idea.
I am impressed with how much the game has improved since open beta and what is on its way.
Well, there actually are a few good reasons to put in a DP now, over some of the more pressing content issues:
DP is much easier to code and impliment
DP makes for a temporary time sink while the Devs can work on more content.
DP will actually help make STO's current economy worth something.
I don't have an infinite amount of time to waste on waiting through a death penalty so I can get back to having fun with your game. If you want a casual game don't waste my time or I won't spend my time and money playing your game.
Oh, I'll actually be okay with some kind of death penalty myself. (I wrote in my last post in this thread that I like the idea of it being tied into the difficulty slider.) I've only died in STO once since launch (but a lot more during closed and open beta lol), so I'm not too overly concerned about what they decide to implement.
I just wanted to point out that almost does not mean all. I've never played Free realms or Wizardry 101, but, if they're MMOs, then there are MMOs without death penalties. I guess I'll have to see, along with everyone else.
very good idea
Warp factor 8, Engage!
Uh, its not just the community on these forums, its the professional gamer community as well...read the exceprts from the following reviews:
" Thus, as long as you don't try and engage a whole roomful of bad guys at once, you'll easily able to grind your way through the enemy hordes, especially considering the lack of a death penalty." 1UP.com
"There is no death penalty whatsoever--you just respawn and reenter the fray, no worse for the wear. The lack of a death penalty may sound appealing if you have dreaded memories of returning to your corpse in EverQuest, but here, it just makes an easy game even easier. Few fights offer the down-to-the-last-second kind of tension you'd hope for, and success is so inevitable that victory often rings hollow. You're just going through the motions without having to exercise the strategies you'd employ in the larger fleet actions. " - Gamespot
" Unfortunately, STO is simple and shallow. Ground combat is typically a two-button business, and the assistance of a bridge officer (STO's simplistic answer to MMORPG pets) drastically reduces your odds of dying. Not that kicking the bucket counts for anything: With no death penalty to discourage poor play, every encounter becomes a matter of perseverance... perseverance in the face of certain boredom." - Gamespy
etc.
Its remarkably basic...no risk, no thrill.
Kirk said it best:
"Risk... Risk is our business. That's what this starship is all about. That's why we're aboard her."
- Kirk
That is why I have proposed a consequence system with minigames (engineering types have to stop a warp core breach from a bridge console, etc.) in previous posts in this thread. It isnt punitive, it provides content and a consequence for jeopardizing your command.
I understand the want for a dealth penalty, however the level bug should be taken care of before that happens. There has been more than one occasion that I have warped into a deep space encounter and been instantly blown to bits by enemies that are (no kidding) +18 levels from me, and I'm in a same/or near level zone!
And yes...I have reported the bug.
Please don't make the mistake of believing a small but vocal minority of players:
1. Are a majority. They are not.
2. Are better game designers than you are. They are not.
There are far, far too many situations in the game where death comes too easily and too often. I mean what the heck is the thinking behind having flagship gank fleets spawn-camping the warp-in point in sector defense maps, for example?
Eliminate the death zerg phenomenon, sure. Eliminate spawn camping -- by both players and NPCs, sure.
Make the game more tedious by introducing a gratuitous "death penalty" and graft it into a game that wasn't designed for it? Bad idea.
STO is new, and there is a lot of room for improvement in many aspects of the game. A "death penalty" isn't one of them.
Please don't misinterpret player sentiment and afflict STO with a "New Game Experience" so soon after launch.
It won't go any better for STO than it did for SWG.
What NEEDS to happen immediately is a higher lvl cap...no new content needs to be added for that change and it requires no more testing...just RAISE THE CAP...
admiral 5 out.....
Ditto on this one, especially in the romulan sector, enter any random (or get sucked into one as your flying to a planet and BOOM 8+ ships on you at once when the screen has loaded, and sometimes down to ½ already, its a pain so imagine with a death penalty.
To be able to reset and re-allocate your skill points.