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The beatings will continue until morale improves
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Member, NoReporting Posts: 178,019 Arc User
The is my obligatory "appeal from the voice of reason" post, I'll try to keep it short and too the point.
Cryptic: get some mods in the forums or more mods or whatever it takes to clean this mess up. The current state of affairs is bad for playerbase morale and that can't be good for anyone. Hire some people until you have 24/7 coverage from actual Cryptic employees and then get some trusty players, give them free game time and a license to kill threads. DO NOT use fanboys for this task, the modern fanboy in his wild and native environment is bad for business and if you haven't figured this out already we're sunk.
With that said... get control of your hardcore fans. I can't figure out why you haven't done this already, it just boggles my mind. Round up the people who will follow you into hell singing hallelujah and give them directions.
Review the reason for even having forums and then make sure they're being used for those purposes. You can't control what goes on at other sites but you can and must keep a lid on things here. Your official forums should give the impression that things are running smoothly (even when they're not) and that if there are problems you are on the job (even when you're not). The community should appear to be sober and friendly. People should be given a chuckle, some good gameplay advice and a reason to log into the game.
Please get this mess under control, I don't want to play in a wasteland.
Cryptic: get some mods in the forums or more mods or whatever it takes to clean this mess up. The current state of affairs is bad for playerbase morale and that can't be good for anyone. Hire some people until you have 24/7 coverage from actual Cryptic employees and then get some trusty players, give them free game time and a license to kill threads. DO NOT use fanboys for this task, the modern fanboy in his wild and native environment is bad for business and if you haven't figured this out already we're sunk.
With that said... get control of your hardcore fans. I can't figure out why you haven't done this already, it just boggles my mind. Round up the people who will follow you into hell singing hallelujah and give them directions.
Review the reason for even having forums and then make sure they're being used for those purposes. You can't control what goes on at other sites but you can and must keep a lid on things here. Your official forums should give the impression that things are running smoothly (even when they're not) and that if there are problems you are on the job (even when you're not). The community should appear to be sober and friendly. People should be given a chuckle, some good gameplay advice and a reason to log into the game.
Please get this mess under control, I don't want to play in a wasteland.
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the reason for that isnt the forums but a bad game ...
Case in point for the originating post.
Cryptic really really needs to get control of the forums. People that violate the forum rules are let to keep repeating their violations. They really need to lock down the dev topics. Its ridiculous. It is bad on morale.
Which is why there should be mods zapping posts left and right so the actual devs can sail through above it all.
lemme translate that:
cryptic should silence all the critics and people that claim that the game lacks content and is a halfassed unfinished POS. only praise and hymns are allowed.
This certainly happens. Said developers then compound the problem by failing to realize they are acting in the capacity of a representative of their company when they come to the official forums, regardless of what their particular station is, and their glib replies help nobody.
Got it in one.
That is absolutely what they should do.
MMO forums are usually full of a dominant minority of idiots. It's like fly paper for fools. Most of the players don't even read the forums.
Yes. If people want to whine they can do it on another site.
I am compelled to agree with the OP. I have no problem with people on the forums voicing legitimate concerns over the game and offering constructive solutions as to how they may be remedied. However, as with most things in this world, they quickly get taken to one extreme or the other.
We all have different opinions on how we feel about the game and what course it should take... However, I have watched multiple threads degenerate into 20+ page long flame wars. In many games those threads would have been locked, and people would have been warned about their conduct.
The OP is correct that flaming, baiting, and trolling does nothing good for the future of the game or the forum community. I really hope that Cryptic does add some mods here to start locking down the ranting of both trolls and fanboys alike.
I believe we need to move on from the "most mmos" defense. Most mmos are junk and most mmo communities are toilets, that shouldn't be a defense it should be a warning.
This is a catch 22.
Players and devs all want the same thing. Players want lots of dev communication, and the devs want to communicate with the playerbase. We all want to be pals here on the official Star Trek forums.
Downside is that what players really want is information about the future of the game. About fixes, and content, and supar sekrits. Nobody blames anybody for that, everyone loves supar sekrits.
But there are no sekrits to give. Information about the game is released when it is ready, not before. If the devs only discussed information when the information was available then there would be no dev communication until right before a big update and the playerbase would feel ignored because there is no communication.
So if the devs want to be a part of the community, and there are no sekrits to give, what is there to talk about? The fun stuff. Tribbles, minotaurs, ship loadouts. The friendly stuff. Except when we do that people will say that we are ignoring the players real issues. Which then puts us back at square one.
Your opinion of the game is as valid as mine. How many stores would stay in business if they hosted rallies against themselves on the shop floor?
It's one thing to have to put up with people picketing on the sidewalk, having them picket in front of the register is just madness.
try looking at the LOTRO forums and how the devs communicate there ... you might learn a thing or two
Ok after reading on a bit I think I get it and for the most part I have to disagree. Lot's though depends on exactly how Cryptic runs the forums if all you need to do to post on the forums is have a Cryptic account then yeah bad idea to let anyone who decides to complain a place to do so (as we all know we'd be flooded with posts from people who have never seen the game just formed an opinion and went with whatever falls in line to there own ideas, but if to post in the forum you need to have an account (which I do believe is the case) then I don't think the devs need to do much more than what they are doing as it will just turn into the myriad of complaints you get about posts getting locked deleted etc. which really gives just as good of a sense of a game as does actually reading the complaints first hand.
I've read plenty of invalid posts and I just don't see how Cryptic would be any better served by not allowing these people to vent here as opposed to going and doing it in all the places that they advertise in. At the end of the day the game will speak for itself, a poster earlier elluded to how Turbine runs LOTRO forums and the biggest difference I see there and here is that right now LOTRO probably has the best served customer base in all of mmo's and has since it launched. LOTRO players are generally lifers because the company did a marvelous job as a whole on the game, constant content updates, we constantly stroke each others good feelings in game (best mmo community I've ever been a part of), and one of the smoothest running games to ever hit market.
Most of the compaints we get here at STO no matter how badly they are worded or how dramatic are in someways warranted is the server far too often unstable? yes did the weekend of ques bother folks? yes again do some parts of the game at this point seem to need work? yes again, but I have faith in Cryptic that they will move right up next to LOTRO as this game moves forward.
Bottom line we got about a C+ launch and right now I feel like that's the kind of comments we get and there is really no need to sugar coat it because since then I think the game has moved easily to B+ and will probably only go up from here.
The problem with a large majority of posts regarding compaints directed squarely at the developers is that the person complaining assumes that you and you alone knows everything about their particular problem or complaint, you know exactly how to solve it, and that you either A) don't care about them by not responding at all or
I welcome the posts from the devs be it either addressing an issue, or just talking about their own experiences with the game. It proves that you guys really do check up on the forums, which is more than can be said in some other games. So while you may get 30 other posts in this thread alone finding issue with something you said, I for one am happy you posted in here in the first place.
WHAT? OMG I cant believe you're even suggesting this.
What you're suggesting is a LIE sir. Seriously its a lie. What you're proposing isnt a forum at all.
Im extremely glad you're not a mod or running Cryptic in any way shape or form. In fact I'd be terrified if you were in charge of ANYTHING. Ever. Period.
You're saying, " We should come down on forum members until all we get are the nice shiny people. That way even if the game is not going smoothly it will at least LOOK that way. "
This post was written pretty well and you gave your points in an understandable manner. But this is still the single most LUDICROUS post I have EVER seen on these forums and I have been around for awhile.
You're talking about turning the forums into nothing but control, lies, propaganda, and deceit. Im absolutely amazed you actually think this is a good idea. Shame on you. :mad:
EDIT: Also, have you seriously thought of a career in politics? You'd be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT for it. And no, thats not a friggin compliment.
About as many that would survive if they made no improvements to save themselves.
Yes, lets have a "Secret Police" force, to remove anything that doesn't conform to your personal opinions - or, perhaps, Reich. How about we call them Super Speedy for the responses they'll generate. SS for short?
We could even move any offending posters into a forum of their own? A camp, if you will, where they can learn to concentrate on what really makes this game good.
:rolleyes:
There is another game where the forums are a mess too, although threads are less redundant there for some reason, maybe those players reached the level of evolution where they start to understand the power of the Search feature. Anyway, a game designer in a rather high position (lead systems designer) engages in conversations with the players in those forums about the deeper mechanics of the game and balance issues. If you know how people behave in a game like this when it comes to balance you wouldn't think ANYONE would engage in those conversations from the game staff, but well, he does.
However, instead of appreciating the really VERY insider information about the deeper secrets of the game and the background of design decisions they send him to hell after minor nerfs or saying "that is intended" to something they disapprove of. They go even as far as saying THEY know more about the game and THEY know how it would be better, in a way you'd talk to your most hated enemy.
For those not familiar with the phenomenon: the game is WoW and that person is Greg Street aka Ghostcrawler. Hello to you clicking on reply to start your whine about how GC is clueless about WoW and how you know it all better too, but don't waste your time, you don't have to prove how much fail you are. The WoW forums are full of it already.
People are just unreasonable stupid douchebags when it comes to their favorite game, if they can't pwn others just out of innate superiority they start to whine for everything related or not.
What we need is a place where strict moderation is applied, all the QQ and nonsense TRIBBLE is removed and people can make sensible conversations or arguments, where trolling is banned and redundant threads are merged so interesting topics won't be pushed down by the TRIBBLE nonsense. I don't mind if the rest of the forums remains the wild crapheap it is now as long as there is a place in it where only the sane people are allowed to talk.
Censorship sucks, but there is a difference between censorship and moderation, censorship is beneficial for a few and moderation is beneficial for the most, this thing here is just a mess but well, we need it too apparently.
That was like ONE poster. ONE guy that claimed you werent dealing with the issues. Which in fact as far as he was concerned you hadnt. He wanted responses to his issue. Its just a bump in the road is all.
Dev responses are ALWAYS welcome. You'll get a few whiners, complainers, etc but so what? Its a forum FULL of people. Not all of them are respectful or nice.
So please do talk about tribbles and skirts and graphics and load outs, all that stuff makes us happy. And we love reading and seeing your posts.
My gosh guys, I know you read the forums all the time. Its the way it is. You cant make everyone happy all the time. But you can make some people happy some of the time. And you do a great job of that when you post. Makes us feel like Cryptic is really a part of their own community.
To be clearer:
Censor the forums, control the fanboy base, improve morale by the usual means.
1, If people want to make wild, over the top accusations about the game that's lovely, many websites exist for that very purpose. Let them do that sort of thing somewhere else.
2, Hardcore fans need direction and talking points, give them those things and manage the core with the bottom line in mind:
3, Happy players pay happily. If people think they are being well informed they'll put up with a lot of hassle with which they would not put up if they're confused and in the dark. Even if they are NOT actually well informed, as long as they think they are that's half the battle.
I'm not saying treat people like mushrooms (keep them in the dark and feed them manure). I'm not saying "lie" either. I'm saying that whatever point Cryptic is trying to make it's being lost in the noise of all the hate and rage coming from people on both sides. The haters will hate no matter what Cryptic does, the fanboys will eat up anything so Cryptic needs to play to the middle.
well, it seems that TRIBBLE reference further up wasnt that far off ...
You believe in deception as a model for behavior and success, which explains why you also say leading people into hell is your concept. Which would be a wasteland so your all fumbled up on how you view things in my view.
They can get things right if they want, and deception never ends up well, so I disagree with your recomendation, but there are some types that might agree. Personally I think leading the other way out of hell is much better, things like humility and honesty seem to work best on those things, not deception.
Really have to see when the content modifications come out, and how things move along, it takes time, but it could go either way, so shrug, I am just waiting curious which way it will go.
Stop being such a suckup and learn to deal with differing opinions. Besides, the Devs are doing their job just fine without you chiming in to give them hints and tips.
Speaking of hints and tips, listen to our Star Trek Online podcast!
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=118095