And to make it understandable: you can give a todler a gun, and they can pull the trigger. Doesnt make them skilled gun slingers. Thats how pampered most sto players have become
"Reports of our depression are vastly exaggerated." "Anyaway, we don't often see a sense of humor in Section 31."
I'm surprised transdimensional tactics wasn't added to the random queues, it's one of the easier ground elites.
Doesn't that one fail the moment someone touches the acid?
No, that's an optional.
I think it's next to impossible to consistently do that optional too as there's too many random elements that effect it, no point in having an mandatory objective that is a coin toss if you succeed on it or not.
Transdimentional Tactics has never even worked for me, I don't even get all the way in before it fails. I have never even seen the starting room or whatever it is you first rez in. I am not the only one that happens to either, in 2018 or so there was quite a bit of trouble with it like that so it may be why it never made it onto the randoms list. Whenever it comes up as an endeavor I never bother with it anymore.
Nukara Transdimensional Tactics Elite (NTTE) has always been one of my favorite ground TFO's. The last time I played it I was simply amazed at how much fun it was. I could play entertaining maps like this all day long and would like to see it considered as an event map. AFK players would get dragged to their deaths into pools of acid so in this respect the "good old fashioned" map design is "self correcting" and ensures that everyone does their part. I think maps like this can encourage players to want to do better and work as a team by rewarding them with a sense of accomplishment at a job well done.
Challenge -> Teamwork -> Immersion -> Entertainment
I had a weird one recently. I tried random Elite to get some advanced R&D pieces, but after the satellite phase and the deploying ground troops phase, when it gets to the capturing escaping Klingon ships phase, it suddenly failed as soon as that phase started. I'm not sure what happened as the ships were still escaping and let us capture them, so no clue what caused the fail condition. Not sure if it's someone destroying something they shouldn't have, or a bug at all.
"We've learned that friendship isn't always easy. But there's no doubt it's worth fighting for."
And now you see one of the reasons I've promoted a vote kick system along with checks to make sure someone is ready for elite TFOs. Far far too many people going into elites they simply aren't ready for or will outright sabotage them. Undine Infiltration is terrible for this as it only takes one wrong answer to fail it.
People can get mad at me all they want but I still maintain you have no inherent right to elites if you can't meet the minimum standards of the TFO itself. If the TFO itself requires everyone on the team do a minimum of 50k DPS as a hypothetical, and you're only doing 20k, sorry but you have no business in that TFO yet. If you have 4 people that want to carry you in a private run then that's on them. But for public randoms, no sorry you don't need to be in there nor do you have a right to be. I want people to be able to see and complete content, BUT not at the expense of the 4 other people in the team. WoW dealt with this years ago to great results with their dungeon journal, proving grounds, and gear checks, along with instituting a vote kick. SWTOR and other MMOs have other systems you can use to gear yourself and prepare as well. I kept trying to tell people something like this would happen if we didn't have systems in place to prevent people who aren't ready from joining, or outright sabotaging the TFO but no one wanted to listen.
STO is now at the crossroads where they're going to have to make a choice of what kind of crowd they want to cater to. Do they want to cater to the more casual crowd, or a more traditional MMO type of crowd. If they go with the casual crowd then you're looking at the weekend warrior types and folks who play off and on but never really do anything seriously or try to push beyond a certain level. Then there are the more traditional types that will go after various ships and are willing to actually put in more work to get to certain levels. Catering to a more traditional crowd doesn't mean you have to ignore the more casual players, it simply means they are not the main focus or vice versa. The game for too long has tried to do both and it's resulted in a state of game that's subpar on both sides of things vs where it could actually be.
I've already seen a few calls to nerf the elites in game and a few here because "they're too hard". Not specifically in this thread yet but you get the idea. If Cryptic actually listens and nerfs the elites, then it will set the precedent of "wait for the nerf" and tell people that if they complain enough Cryptic will just nerf it and hand them the win. Now I don't think things should be so hard that if you so much as blink on the wrong frame you die, but I do think content should at least require you to be conscious at your keyboard and have a basic understanding of your build and how to use it.
As I've said plenty of times now, the dungeon journal, proving grounds and checks in WoW solved the issue of who was ready and who wasn't. If you had the ability to get through the proving grounds and farm out a basic set of stuff, you had no excuse to not meet at least the basic minimum level of the content. It made it easy to tell who was trolling and who wasn't. Then if you did encounter trolls you could boot them from the group. People have been complaining about wanting more tools and better explanations for some time now. A proving grounds would give you a test map to try out various things before taking them into actual TFOs. Plus you're not having to constantly wait 30 minutes on a patrol or test on a friend in a PVP map which is going go skew the results anyways. Dungeon journal gives you basic info on the foes and individual things you will encounter allowing you to formulate your own plans. Gear checks makes sure you don't have guys who just hit 65 in the last 10 minutes and are still in quest greens ranging from mk ii up to mk xi tring to sneak into elites.
Like I'm sorry if it offends people but there are just some people that are not ready for elite yet and need to improve before they are. No person is so important that they should be allowed to ruin it for 4 other people because they don't like being told they're not ready yet. Take the time to improve and get better, then come back and stomp it. Makes you a better player and improves the experience of the team as a whole. We can lower the bar to the floor of the boiler room of Gre'thor but there would STILL be people who can't get it right, but at that point why bother. They may as well turn on the tribble test console on the main server and let us grab all the marks we want for no work. Complaining about having to meet the standards the game itself sets is like being a first day med school student and whining they won't let you perform heart surgery even though you don't know the first thing about it. Sorry you're not ready for that yet. Anyways I've said enough for the moment.
STO used to have a /votekick command. it was why the reqest reinforcments button existed to pull new people in...or request bridge officers if you were too far along to call an actual person into the TFO... i was only ever kicked ONCE from an infected ground before season 6. and remember getting at least 2 votekick prompts in similar borg TFOs at the time.
Once the votekick was initiated, a version of the need/greed diaog box would pop up out of the side of the corner saying "Character@name has initiatad a votekick against Character@name yes/no"
I don't know if its still there' and i doubt i could assemble a team just to test if the functionality still exists. but i do remember it being used before the rep system was launched
Yes, let's re-enable player kicking. Go right back to "You have x, y, or z ship, get out!" or "you don't have x, y, or z build", or "you don't do 2 million DPS or more" and have people blocked from content essentially because a certain class of people doesn't want those who aren't willing to break the bank on superbuilds, or switch off to "meta" ships, to do it. Garbage like that is what got it removed in the FIRST place, along with a showering of people who were no longer willing to spend ANY money on the game. News flash, folks: That might work in Warcraft or some other MMOs, but when it's a licensed property? It won't. Because they have to cater at least some to the casuals who are there for the IP, if they don't, the whole game dies. They realized it the first time, and turned vote kick off. Reverse that, and well... yeah.
At the beginning I had no issues playing random Elite. Now its like all these people who were leeching on Advanced figured out they could do the same on Elite. So now every other round you got 1 or 2 people in there who really have no business on that difficulty level.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
I want a random space / random ground filter separation. Maybe I'd try it then. Maybe thats what happened? One joined rng fully aware that his ships can take any and everything and then got dropped into ground.
I know for myself that whenever I get rng dropped into a ground mission I do curse like a drunk and raging sailor at whomever q'ed up for that (IRL for myself behind the screen for only me and probably a confused neighbour to hear); but I do play it. No way I'll try that experience in elite.
There will be some trolls who sabotage, the bigger issue here is that people got away with just dps and being caried through fro years. Able to either afk full events or do bare minimum to get rewards.
The game has some skill checks and learnign curves, but most can be surpassed with buying. Or just emode events where you get paid out for doing nothing.
Each tfo which is outdated can be don easily with current powercreep, where people learn nothing go solo and pew pew to end.
Other timegated maps only need some dps to get rewards. Now random elite joining is added all these failures can freely join the elites. Enjoy, Yes the elitist can enjoy what otehrs have enjoyed since adv randoms joined. The game should have an unlock where characters must progress x times with succes before being able to join adv, and there have to do succes runs again untill unlocking elite option. Not that it would help the game, since the unlock would end up in the store, making it pointless.
People still get away with just having a lot of DPS.
Little actual skill or situational awareness is required to play 'elites'. See Defense of Rhiho station as an example.
In fact, little actual effort is required anymore. You can just spam whatever has been bound to a certain key and that's it.
This has become even more obvious on the ground recently (which used to be the part of the game where positioning etc. mattered because it could easily mean the difference between life and death). Here and now, just mindlessly spamming abilities has become a viable way of playing.
During the recent Pahvo event for example, I've seen entire teams of players who were just standing there, letting omni-directional turrets like the Agony one and armies of drones etc. clear the content for them. Same with Sompek or miner instabilities. You can overcome any enemy defence (like the Na'kuhl's immunity) this way, there's actually no reason at all to do much yourself anymore or pay attention to what you're shooting.
In that sense, this game has become a big joke. I remember the times when you actually had to be good if you wanted to succeed on the ground.
Placing yourself in the right spot, timing your abilities, using different combo's to expose and exploit enemies, sometimes even stop fighting to take cover for a moment etc. None of that matters anymore. The ground part of the game is also just mindless spamming of overpowered stuff now, zero thinking (ahead) or alertness is required anymore.
They're not feeling on purpose. They just don't know how to do Elite. There are no Rewards for failing. They want those isomags, but they can't get them unless they successfully complete the TFO.
The problem here is Elite TFO should not be available to the general player base. I've been asking for random Elites for years but I've also stated that there has to be ways to restrict the general player base access. I have always stated that there's difficulty level should be set to Elite to even see Elite random TFO cues. If they can't play on Elite difficulty they shouldn't even have access to it.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
They want those isomags, but they can't get them unless they successfully complete the TFO.
Pretty sure they can, its just going to be expensive. The crafting mats for them aren't bound, so they can be bought on the Exchange. And the consoles themselves aren't bound until equipped, which means they too are on the Exchange. However any that are cheep are going to be snapped up instantly, leaving the more expensive ones up.
I'd also mention needing to be a crafter, but I have a feeling the Isomags may have inspired some to work on their crafting levels.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I haven't bothered with isomags and whatnot so far, even though I do all the other crafting stuff, because of that expense of the mats on the market or the expense of time and resources it would take to do the kind of min/maxing needed for elite to get them that way. If I get enough uninterrupted time in the near future to sit down and do that I might, but I really don't see that happening with RL being what it has been lately.
Hopefully power creep does not make the things a necessity any time soon.
I managed to snap up a set of 20 isomags with varying mods for under a million EC - they are not that expensive if you don't mind spending a fair bit of salvage and dil to get optimal mods.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
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The Force is united within me.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,670Community Moderator
I don't bother with Isomags because I've generally already got Locators from my Fleet Spire.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
They're fun to experiment with. On one of my newer toons' Universe class, I shifted his build's focus towards its hangar bays when the new consoles were added.
I probably wouldn't have done that if it weren't for the new consoles. Already had a carrier toon, but one that used the Xindi consoles and Spire consoles combined with Altamid Plasma and the related Lobi set. There was no room for those new consoles on that toon, but on the newer one there was. Without those new consoles, he probably would have used yet another beam build.
So yeah, I appreciate the extra options. But I can see why they would be ignored if you already have gear that has to be shelved in order to use the new stuff.
Amused to see this thread still going. More amused by all the, "One Ring to Bind Them All", suggestions. Like vote/kick. Or gear/DPS check. I have a suggestion, too. Ready? Here goes.
Once someone successfully completes any TFO on Elite,
they should be blocked from doing TFOs on either Normal or Advanced ever again.
Since Events are run on Normal, to accommodate the player who started yesterday, I would not have to worry any more about some Whale-captained gold-flavored Lobi Ship finishing an Event TFO in under one minute. Which means I can play Star Trek Online with normal people. Who do not make this game the centerpiece of their existence.
This thread has a great many posts to whom Bill Shatner's advice to Trekkies all those years ago applies correctly.
"Don't PUG" also comes to mind.
Elitism is very entertaining when the elitists take themselves so seriously. Moreso since some of these same elitists have generously donated W.O.T.s all throughout these forums about how sad it is this game is too easy to play now.
The player base of this game is probably a tiny fraction of the number of people who play other MMOs. It is free to play. Without Season Passes or DLCs which cost money to add or other things like that. Yet some people cannot be happy unless they find a way to divide us into tribes and factions. To justify their own sense of self worth.
I said in my previous post I do not think people are "sabotaging" Elite TFOs on purpose. Nor do I think there is malicious intent on the part of players to get someone to carry them through a TFO. After reading the stuff here following my previous post. I've seen no reason to change my mind. I play this game because I am a Star Trek fan first and a gamer second. Being here since March of 2012, I'm pretty sure I'm geared enough and experienced enough to play Elite TFOs successfully. I don't though. I very much prefer to hang out with regular people. Both here and IRL.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Amused to see this thread still going. More amused by all the, "One Ring to Bind Them All", suggestions. Like vote/kick. Or gear/DPS check. I have a suggestion, too. Ready? Here goes.
Once someone successfully completes any TFO on Elite,
they should be blocked from doing TFOs on either Normal or Advanced ever again.
You sit here and complain about "one ring to bind them all" suggestions and elitism, yet here you are trying to apply a "one ring to bind them all" thing of locking people out of content they've earned the right to be in. If you're mad that people like myself and others with stronger builds are able to be in normal mode, then tell Cryptic about it. I don't want to be in normal mode anymore than you want me there. But I'm also not going to give up on specific event rewards because it offends you either.
Since Events are run on Normal, to accommodate the player who started yesterday, I would not have to worry any more about some Whale-captained gold-flavored Lobi Ship finishing an Event TFO in under one minute. Which means I can play Star Trek Online with normal people. Who do not make this game the centerpiece of their existence.
People putting builds together that do more than 5k DPS are not "making the game the centerpiece of their existence". By your logic I could say that you're making people with stronger builds than yours the centerpiece of your existence and letting them live freely in your head. If you don't like using lobi gear or other items then you do you dude. Simply because someone plays differently than you doesn't automatically make it wrong. Good grief man.
This thread has a great many posts to whom Bill Shatner's advice to Trekkies all those years ago applies correctly.
"Don't PUG" also comes to mind.
This goes both ways. If you don't want to risk running into a "whale captained gold flavored lobi ship finishing an event tfo in under one minute" then don't pug. So by your own logic if you don't want to risk running into whales, form your own groups or don't complain. That whale has just as much right to be there as you do. You do not own the game or any specific difficulty.
Elitism is very entertaining when the elitists take themselves so seriously. Moreso since some of these same elitists have generously donated W.O.T.s all throughout these forums about how sad it is this game is too easy to play now.
You complain about "elitists taking themselves too seriously", yet here you are complaining about "whale captained lobi ships" and suggesting people be locked out of normal and advanced content because they dare try to maximize their damage. So by your own logic you're just as elitist as you're accusing the other people of being, save your own elitism runs in the opposite direction of thinking anyone who dares try to max out their builds and carry their own weight is somehow a villain.
The player base of this game is probably a tiny fraction of the number of people who play other MMOs. It is free to play. Without Season Passes or DLCs which cost money to add or other things like that. Yet some people cannot be happy unless they find a way to divide us into tribes and factions. To justify their own sense of self worth.
Do you hear yourself dude? You're seriously sitting here complaining about "people not being happy unless they find a way to divide us into tribes and factions to justify their own self worth", yet argued for dividing the playerbase based on whether one has dared complete an elite TFO or not. Pot meet kettle.
I said in my previous post I do not think people are "sabotaging" Elite TFOs on purpose. Nor do I think there is malicious intent on the part of players to get someone to carry them through a TFO. After reading the stuff here following my previous post. I've seen no reason to change my mind. I play this game because I am a Star Trek fan first and a gamer second. Being here since March of 2012, I'm pretty sure I'm geared enough and experienced enough to play Elite TFOs successfully. I don't though. I very much prefer to hang out with regular people. Both here and IRL.
And the line in bold tells me pretty much what I need to know and is very telling to your motivations here. If a player can find a group of people willing to carry them through content, then more power to them and that group. If 4 people want to carry their friend through elite content even though that friend just hit 65 that same day, what they do in their runs is their own business. What I DO however find malicious is people joining content they know they're not ready for yet and expecting 4 other people should be forced to carry them as a result. Sorry but you're not entitled to a free ride on the backs of 4 other people and at the cost of their experience, no one is. You want to get into that content and complete it, earn it by carrying your own weight. Otherwise you may as well give one of those 4 people your login credentials and have them play the game for you too while you're at it. I don't mind working with people who are new to elites and have put in the work to get in the door. However it's not my job to do enough damage to carry myself AND you in the process. Thinking you have a right to make 4 other people carry you in content is the real elitism here. Demanding other people carry you is like getting a full time job and expecting to be paid the same amount of cash as the guy that worked 40 hours even though you only worked 20 that week. You're not entitled to the extra 20 hours of pay because you didn't work the extra 20 hours. You want the same amount of pay, put in the same amount of work.
If you're going to say there is no malicious intent on the part of players looking to get carried, likewise I can also say there is no malicious intent in saying people who can't pull the minimum amount of damage required for elite shouldn't be allowed into elites. There's an old saying I'm quite fond of that one might even say is one of the golden rules of life that goes a little something like this. Judge not lest ye be judged also, for the same measure you use to judge others will be used against you. In other words, if you or anyone else are going to sit here and say folks like myself shouldn't be allowed to set foot in normal or advanced TFOs because it ruins it for others, likewise I'm going to say you don't get to join elites because it ruins it for others. Turnabout is fair play here. Also on this point, playing since 2012 doesn't automatically mean you know how to put a build together or are ready for elites. I haven't seen any of your builds so I can't attest to whether you're ready for elite or not. However I've seen plenty of people make the claim of "I've been here since beta" or whatever that had zero clue what they were doing.
Now I don't believe that the majority of folks are trying to sabotage elites either, however I do believe there are people who grossly overestimate their ability in this game that are joining content they're not yet ready for. I still maintain those people should not be allowed into elite until they've proven they can carry their own weight and meet the minimum standards set forth by the game itself. If the game requires 250k combined damage from the team or 50k per person, then that person needs to prove they can generate the 50k before they're allowed in the door. Otherwise they've guaranteed a fail for 4 other people because they're not ready yet. One person should not be allowed to ruin the experience for 4 other people. Sorry but that's wholly unreasonable. That person who is not yet ready should be given information resources they can use to get ready, along with being able to earn resources to get ready, then come back and stomp things like everyone else. You wouldn't let a first day med student perform surgery on you because they're not yet ready for it, likewise why should I be forced to carry someone who isn't ready for the content yet? So long as you're clearing content and getting rewards, why do you care if there is a "whale captained lobi ship" in there? How are you personally hurt by it? Likewise in elites I don't care if the other 4 people in there are doing the bare minimum so long as we clear it. However simultaneously when someone consistently causes a run to fail for other people, that person shouldn't be allowed in there until they fix whatever is causing the issue. That would go for me if I was the one causing the fail. Heaven forbid people be held to some kind of basic standard.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Idk about saboteurs because I really honestly haven't seen enough of that to complain about. Not to say that I've never seen it though.
On the topic of leechers, though. There are times on certain maps that don't need any pressing of 'F' or too much movement around the map (think Infected or similar) where you can clearly see within a few seconds that there's enough DPS from two or more of the other four that they probably won't even notice if you don't really do that much. I'm not saying it gives you any right to straight up disengage and let the others do the work for you, but like, there is an element at times of why bother racing to start shooting if the one or ones who get there first don't seem to need much help. I don't want to get into an argument about the most time efficient way to do a run and whatnot, because that's kind of a whole other issue and if not 'wasting' your time is your focus above all else, then you probably shouldn't be PUGing just as much as those who aren't 'ready' for Elites probably shouldn't either. Kinda two sides of the same coin there.
There's also the thing of like, is DPS really literally the only way to help/be useful? and if you aren't DPSing like the other four, are you actually leeching/not 'ready' for Elites? Or do you just approach the game in a different way? Like, the vast majority of those who actually pay attention to their builds go for fine tuning DPS, and that's perfectly fine, but I do feel like it is sadly a surprise to a lot of players (not all, but a large percentage) that there are actually a number of playstyles. We (the royal 'we') have simply decided as a playerbase that those playstyles aren't viable for whatever reason.
So like someone said above, unless we're talking about no slotted abilities, MkX common gear, and no traits, etc, then DPS gating is not necessarily the answer here. It is perfectly possible to know exactly what you're doing, not be leeching, not be sabotaging, be 'ready' for Elites, but just be using a build that doesn't do that much DPS because you've been there and done that in other games. Like I said, efficiency, and finishing quickly are related but separate issues. If everyone participates, optionals and objectives are completed within the time, what's the issue?
My questions to the people who make the content is why do we have the possibility of making so many different builds if 75+% apparently serve 'no purpose' in Elite content. But this is a whole other discussion.
"So my fun is wrong?"
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
Most of elite content is carried by dps and only dps. Lets take for example -dranuur gauntlet- will fail, if not enough dreadnoughts are destroyed. And depending on the enemy type you get, the DPS number has to be quite high across the board and even one bad apple in team can be enough for that entire TFO to fail (let's say you get some specialy tough dreads, like voth citadels...). Elite azure nebula can also easly fail, if there is a streak of low-point captured romulan ships and people in team don't do their job.
These are only two examples and it's similar for plenty, if not most elite TFOs (look outside infected the conduit!).
btw @thunderfoot, the difference between low dps players playing elite and high dps players playing normal is the fact, that elite tfos have fail conditions and these conditions are frequently met, if the players are not up to the task.
These two situations have very different potential outcomes and are not to be compared in a simple matter.
I said in my previous post I do not think people are "sabotaging" Elite TFOs on purpose. Nor do I think there is malicious intent on the part of players to get someone to carry them through a TFO. After reading the stuff here following my previous post. I've seen no reason to change my mind. I play this game because I am a Star Trek fan first and a gamer second. Being here since March of 2012, I'm pretty sure I'm geared enough and experienced enough to play Elite TFOs successfully. I don't though. I very much prefer to hang out with regular people. Both here and IRL.
So using a random elite platform as your farming tool even though you don't cut the dps necessary but you depend constantly on other people is not sabotaging the TFO's? You have no idea how many people with Farmer here and Miner there I have seen with tons of injuries like no care in the world.
You rather hang out with the normal playing folks that is your thing and nobody wants to take that away from you. Though I also want to enjoy the game on the higher difficulty level which has at least the hint of a challenge and not the challenge make double the dps or more to accommodate for your not so well off team players.
As people already mentioned before me, Elite difficulty has goals which needs to be met or you fail. Fail = you leave with 10 or so marks, feel very frustrated because some people just simple don't care enough to figure it out like with Brotherhood of the Sword or others.
In the beginning everything worked pretty well maybe 1 out 20 elite tfo's failed. Now so many more people who want to get the stuff you get on elite want it basicly for free and sign up even though they are not nearly geared or otherwise experienced to play on the highest difficulty level.
@theboxisred Yes, I have had that happen to me before. I have everything set to normal, i click random tfo and have got thrown into an advanced tfo. Right at the start i knew its not a normal tfo and the team i was on did have a hard time, and it took a while to complete. It was the newer tfo based off fugiwara (sp?) with the venture down v'ger to the compilers. So this could be happening to players that unintentionally get put into an advanced or elite tfo.
Thanks for the details!
Hopefully we can get more feedback on this and possibly find a solution of at least get an accurate bug report into the system.
I've noticed something that may be another piece of the puzzle.
When queued for Normal Difficulty random TFO's I am occasionally getting dumped into Advanced or Elite Difficulty random TFO's. I can tell by the rewards for the TFO's in question, even though the difficulty indicator in the UI is reading Normal Difficulty.
Is this happening to anyone else?
Is the Random TFO system meant to "jump" difficulty levels to fill empty slots regardless of the setting selected by the player?
If it is we may have a bug on our hands that is dumping unprepared players into TFO's they are not ready for which may explain the rise in Pooch Screws.
DISCLAIMER: I am NOT making a Bug Report here. I am conferring with other players in an attempt to determine if a bug exists and how widespread it might be. Please allow us to do so unimpeded.
Unless you click the "Show Only Selected Difficulty"; the system will queue you for BOTH Normal or Advanced at the same time when using the Random TFO Queue system.
Thanks for the intel!
My understanding is that that check box applies only to the list of TFO's on our UI.
I am, however, going to test this for a few days to see what results I get.
If you are correct then this might be more than a mere bug, it may be a design flaw.
Now I'll have to figure out how to determine if it's working as intended, as well.
or at least a lack of documented instruction. it certainly is not intuitive
They're not feeling on purpose. They just don't know how to do Elite. There are no Rewards for failing. They want those isomags, but they can't get them unless they successfully complete the TFO.
The problem here is Elite TFO should not be available to the general player base. I've been asking for random Elites for years but I've also stated that there has to be ways to restrict the general player base access. I have always stated that there's difficulty level should be set to Elite to even see Elite random TFO cues. If they can't play on Elite difficulty they shouldn't even have access to it.
then maybe they need to not put the isomags behind the elite wall. they did that with the old borg salvage and eventually had to change it
I said in my previous post I do not think people are "sabotaging" Elite TFOs on purpose. Nor do I think there is malicious intent on the part of players to get someone to carry them through a TFO. After reading the stuff here following my previous post. I've seen no reason to change my mind. I play this game because I am a Star Trek fan first and a gamer second. Being here since March of 2012, I'm pretty sure I'm geared enough and experienced enough to play Elite TFOs successfully. I don't though. I very much prefer to hang out with regular people. Both here and IRL.
So using a random elite platform as your farming tool even though you don't cut the dps necessary but you depend constantly on other people is not sabotaging the TFO's? You have no idea how many people with Farmer here and Miner there I have seen with tons of injuries like no care in the world.
You rather hang out with the normal playing folks that is your thing and nobody wants to take that away from you. Though I also want to enjoy the game on the higher difficulty level which has at least the hint of a challenge and not the challenge make double the dps or more to accommodate for your not so well off team players.
As people already mentioned before me, Elite difficulty has goals which needs to be met or you fail. Fail = you leave with 10 or so marks, feel very frustrated because some people just simple don't care enough to figure it out like with Brotherhood of the Sword or others.
In the beginning everything worked pretty well maybe 1 out 20 elite tfo's failed. Now so many more people who want to get the stuff you get on elite want it basicly for free and sign up even though they are not nearly geared or otherwise experienced to play on the highest difficulty level.
The price of 'that stuff' has declined significantly. Why would more people now suddenly be interested in obtaining it directly, instead of through the exchange?
Most of elite content is carried by dps and only dps. Lets take for example -dranuur gauntlet- will fail, if not enough dreadnoughts are destroyed. And depending on the enemy type you get, the DPS number has to be quite high across the board and even one bad apple in team can be enough for that entire TFO to fail (let's say you get some specialy tough dreads, like voth citadels...). Elite azure nebula can also easly fail, if there is a streak of low-point captured romulan ships and people in team don't do their job.
These are only two examples and it's similar for plenty, if not most elite TFOs (look outside infected the conduit!).
btw @thunderfoot, the difference between low dps players playing elite and high dps players playing normal is the fact, that elite tfos have fail conditions and these conditions are frequently met, if the players are not up to the task.
These two situations have very different potential outcomes and are not to be compared in a simple matter.
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"Anyaway, we don't often see a sense of humor in Section 31."
I think it's next to impossible to consistently do that optional too as there's too many random elements that effect it, no point in having an mandatory objective that is a coin toss if you succeed on it or not.
Challenge -> Teamwork -> Immersion -> Entertainment
STO used to have a /votekick command. it was why the reqest reinforcments button existed to pull new people in...or request bridge officers if you were too far along to call an actual person into the TFO... i was only ever kicked ONCE from an infected ground before season 6. and remember getting at least 2 votekick prompts in similar borg TFOs at the time.
Once the votekick was initiated, a version of the need/greed diaog box would pop up out of the side of the corner saying "Character@name has initiatad a votekick against Character@name yes/no"
I don't know if its still there' and i doubt i could assemble a team just to test if the functionality still exists. but i do remember it being used before the rep system was launched
Mwahahahahahahaha
Mwahahahahahahaha
I know for myself that whenever I get rng dropped into a ground mission I do curse like a drunk and raging sailor at whomever q'ed up for that (IRL for myself behind the screen for only me and probably a confused neighbour to hear); but I do play it. No way I'll try that experience in elite.
People still get away with just having a lot of DPS.
Little actual skill or situational awareness is required to play 'elites'. See Defense of Rhiho station as an example.
This has become even more obvious on the ground recently (which used to be the part of the game where positioning etc. mattered because it could easily mean the difference between life and death). Here and now, just mindlessly spamming abilities has become a viable way of playing.
During the recent Pahvo event for example, I've seen entire teams of players who were just standing there, letting omni-directional turrets like the Agony one and armies of drones etc. clear the content for them. Same with Sompek or miner instabilities. You can overcome any enemy defence (like the Na'kuhl's immunity) this way, there's actually no reason at all to do much yourself anymore or pay attention to what you're shooting.
In that sense, this game has become a big joke. I remember the times when you actually had to be good if you wanted to succeed on the ground.
Placing yourself in the right spot, timing your abilities, using different combo's to expose and exploit enemies, sometimes even stop fighting to take cover for a moment etc. None of that matters anymore. The ground part of the game is also just mindless spamming of overpowered stuff now, zero thinking (ahead) or alertness is required anymore.
The problem here is Elite TFO should not be available to the general player base. I've been asking for random Elites for years but I've also stated that there has to be ways to restrict the general player base access. I have always stated that there's difficulty level should be set to Elite to even see Elite random TFO cues. If they can't play on Elite difficulty they shouldn't even have access to it.
Pretty sure they can, its just going to be expensive. The crafting mats for them aren't bound, so they can be bought on the Exchange. And the consoles themselves aren't bound until equipped, which means they too are on the Exchange. However any that are cheep are going to be snapped up instantly, leaving the more expensive ones up.
I'd also mention needing to be a crafter, but I have a feeling the Isomags may have inspired some to work on their crafting levels.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Prices have declined significantly.
Hopefully power creep does not make the things a necessity any time soon.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I probably wouldn't have done that if it weren't for the new consoles. Already had a carrier toon, but one that used the Xindi consoles and Spire consoles combined with Altamid Plasma and the related Lobi set. There was no room for those new consoles on that toon, but on the newer one there was. Without those new consoles, he probably would have used yet another beam build.
So yeah, I appreciate the extra options. But I can see why they would be ignored if you already have gear that has to be shelved in order to use the new stuff.
they should be blocked from doing TFOs on either Normal or Advanced ever again.
Since Events are run on Normal, to accommodate the player who started yesterday, I would not have to worry any more about some Whale-captained gold-flavored Lobi Ship finishing an Event TFO in under one minute. Which means I can play Star Trek Online with normal people. Who do not make this game the centerpiece of their existence.
This thread has a great many posts to whom Bill Shatner's advice to Trekkies all those years ago applies correctly.
"Don't PUG" also comes to mind.
Elitism is very entertaining when the elitists take themselves so seriously. Moreso since some of these same elitists have generously donated W.O.T.s all throughout these forums about how sad it is this game is too easy to play now.
The player base of this game is probably a tiny fraction of the number of people who play other MMOs. It is free to play. Without Season Passes or DLCs which cost money to add or other things like that. Yet some people cannot be happy unless they find a way to divide us into tribes and factions. To justify their own sense of self worth.
I said in my previous post I do not think people are "sabotaging" Elite TFOs on purpose. Nor do I think there is malicious intent on the part of players to get someone to carry them through a TFO. After reading the stuff here following my previous post. I've seen no reason to change my mind. I play this game because I am a Star Trek fan first and a gamer second. Being here since March of 2012, I'm pretty sure I'm geared enough and experienced enough to play Elite TFOs successfully. I don't though. I very much prefer to hang out with regular people. Both here and IRL.
People putting builds together that do more than 5k DPS are not "making the game the centerpiece of their existence". By your logic I could say that you're making people with stronger builds than yours the centerpiece of your existence and letting them live freely in your head. If you don't like using lobi gear or other items then you do you dude. Simply because someone plays differently than you doesn't automatically make it wrong. Good grief man.
This goes both ways. If you don't want to risk running into a "whale captained gold flavored lobi ship finishing an event tfo in under one minute" then don't pug. So by your own logic if you don't want to risk running into whales, form your own groups or don't complain. That whale has just as much right to be there as you do. You do not own the game or any specific difficulty.
You complain about "elitists taking themselves too seriously", yet here you are complaining about "whale captained lobi ships" and suggesting people be locked out of normal and advanced content because they dare try to maximize their damage. So by your own logic you're just as elitist as you're accusing the other people of being, save your own elitism runs in the opposite direction of thinking anyone who dares try to max out their builds and carry their own weight is somehow a villain.
Do you hear yourself dude? You're seriously sitting here complaining about "people not being happy unless they find a way to divide us into tribes and factions to justify their own self worth", yet argued for dividing the playerbase based on whether one has dared complete an elite TFO or not. Pot meet kettle.
And the line in bold tells me pretty much what I need to know and is very telling to your motivations here. If a player can find a group of people willing to carry them through content, then more power to them and that group. If 4 people want to carry their friend through elite content even though that friend just hit 65 that same day, what they do in their runs is their own business. What I DO however find malicious is people joining content they know they're not ready for yet and expecting 4 other people should be forced to carry them as a result. Sorry but you're not entitled to a free ride on the backs of 4 other people and at the cost of their experience, no one is. You want to get into that content and complete it, earn it by carrying your own weight. Otherwise you may as well give one of those 4 people your login credentials and have them play the game for you too while you're at it. I don't mind working with people who are new to elites and have put in the work to get in the door. However it's not my job to do enough damage to carry myself AND you in the process. Thinking you have a right to make 4 other people carry you in content is the real elitism here. Demanding other people carry you is like getting a full time job and expecting to be paid the same amount of cash as the guy that worked 40 hours even though you only worked 20 that week. You're not entitled to the extra 20 hours of pay because you didn't work the extra 20 hours. You want the same amount of pay, put in the same amount of work.
If you're going to say there is no malicious intent on the part of players looking to get carried, likewise I can also say there is no malicious intent in saying people who can't pull the minimum amount of damage required for elite shouldn't be allowed into elites. There's an old saying I'm quite fond of that one might even say is one of the golden rules of life that goes a little something like this. Judge not lest ye be judged also, for the same measure you use to judge others will be used against you. In other words, if you or anyone else are going to sit here and say folks like myself shouldn't be allowed to set foot in normal or advanced TFOs because it ruins it for others, likewise I'm going to say you don't get to join elites because it ruins it for others. Turnabout is fair play here. Also on this point, playing since 2012 doesn't automatically mean you know how to put a build together or are ready for elites. I haven't seen any of your builds so I can't attest to whether you're ready for elite or not. However I've seen plenty of people make the claim of "I've been here since beta" or whatever that had zero clue what they were doing.
Now I don't believe that the majority of folks are trying to sabotage elites either, however I do believe there are people who grossly overestimate their ability in this game that are joining content they're not yet ready for. I still maintain those people should not be allowed into elite until they've proven they can carry their own weight and meet the minimum standards set forth by the game itself. If the game requires 250k combined damage from the team or 50k per person, then that person needs to prove they can generate the 50k before they're allowed in the door. Otherwise they've guaranteed a fail for 4 other people because they're not ready yet. One person should not be allowed to ruin the experience for 4 other people. Sorry but that's wholly unreasonable. That person who is not yet ready should be given information resources they can use to get ready, along with being able to earn resources to get ready, then come back and stomp things like everyone else. You wouldn't let a first day med student perform surgery on you because they're not yet ready for it, likewise why should I be forced to carry someone who isn't ready for the content yet? So long as you're clearing content and getting rewards, why do you care if there is a "whale captained lobi ship" in there? How are you personally hurt by it? Likewise in elites I don't care if the other 4 people in there are doing the bare minimum so long as we clear it. However simultaneously when someone consistently causes a run to fail for other people, that person shouldn't be allowed in there until they fix whatever is causing the issue. That would go for me if I was the one causing the fail. Heaven forbid people be held to some kind of basic standard.
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On the topic of leechers, though. There are times on certain maps that don't need any pressing of 'F' or too much movement around the map (think Infected or similar) where you can clearly see within a few seconds that there's enough DPS from two or more of the other four that they probably won't even notice if you don't really do that much. I'm not saying it gives you any right to straight up disengage and let the others do the work for you, but like, there is an element at times of why bother racing to start shooting if the one or ones who get there first don't seem to need much help. I don't want to get into an argument about the most time efficient way to do a run and whatnot, because that's kind of a whole other issue and if not 'wasting' your time is your focus above all else, then you probably shouldn't be PUGing just as much as those who aren't 'ready' for Elites probably shouldn't either. Kinda two sides of the same coin there.
There's also the thing of like, is DPS really literally the only way to help/be useful? and if you aren't DPSing like the other four, are you actually leeching/not 'ready' for Elites? Or do you just approach the game in a different way? Like, the vast majority of those who actually pay attention to their builds go for fine tuning DPS, and that's perfectly fine, but I do feel like it is sadly a surprise to a lot of players (not all, but a large percentage) that there are actually a number of playstyles. We (the royal 'we') have simply decided as a playerbase that those playstyles aren't viable for whatever reason.
So like someone said above, unless we're talking about no slotted abilities, MkX common gear, and no traits, etc, then DPS gating is not necessarily the answer here. It is perfectly possible to know exactly what you're doing, not be leeching, not be sabotaging, be 'ready' for Elites, but just be using a build that doesn't do that much DPS because you've been there and done that in other games. Like I said, efficiency, and finishing quickly are related but separate issues. If everyone participates, optionals and objectives are completed within the time, what's the issue?
My questions to the people who make the content is why do we have the possibility of making so many different builds if 75+% apparently serve 'no purpose' in Elite content. But this is a whole other discussion.
No. Your fun makes everyone else's fun wrong by default.
These are only two examples and it's similar for plenty, if not most elite TFOs (look outside infected the conduit!).
btw @thunderfoot, the difference between low dps players playing elite and high dps players playing normal is the fact, that elite tfos have fail conditions and these conditions are frequently met, if the players are not up to the task.
These two situations have very different potential outcomes and are not to be compared in a simple matter.
So using a random elite platform as your farming tool even though you don't cut the dps necessary but you depend constantly on other people is not sabotaging the TFO's? You have no idea how many people with Farmer here and Miner there I have seen with tons of injuries like no care in the world.
You rather hang out with the normal playing folks that is your thing and nobody wants to take that away from you. Though I also want to enjoy the game on the higher difficulty level which has at least the hint of a challenge and not the challenge make double the dps or more to accommodate for your not so well off team players.
As people already mentioned before me, Elite difficulty has goals which needs to be met or you fail. Fail = you leave with 10 or so marks, feel very frustrated because some people just simple don't care enough to figure it out like with Brotherhood of the Sword or others.
In the beginning everything worked pretty well maybe 1 out 20 elite tfo's failed. Now so many more people who want to get the stuff you get on elite want it basicly for free and sign up even though they are not nearly geared or otherwise experienced to play on the highest difficulty level.
Name and shame redacted. -- @wingedhussar#7584
or at least a lack of documented instruction. it certainly is not intuitive
then maybe they need to not put the isomags behind the elite wall. they did that with the old borg salvage and eventually had to change it
Why though?
The price of 'that stuff' has declined significantly. Why would more people now suddenly be interested in obtaining it directly, instead of through the exchange?
(Emphasis added.)
Which is why it's not really Elite content.