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What about Cardassians and Ferengi?
sb1980
Member Posts: 90 Arc User
Does anyone know the reasons why franchise-defining factions like the Cardassians and Ferengi have such a low status in STO, especially not being selectable as factions?
It doesn't seem entirely understandable to me why, for example, the relatively one-dimensional Jem'Hadar were preferred to them back then...
It doesn't seem entirely understandable to me why, for example, the relatively one-dimensional Jem'Hadar were preferred to them back then...
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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My two credits:
The Dominion is a galactic empire tremendously larger than Cardassia's was even before Cardassia's empire was shattered and its home almost depopulated. Cardassia isn't any more significant now than Bajor.
The Ferengi are merchants, and this isn't a trading game it's combat-focused.
Back then there was a fad (though it was still thought to be a trend at the time) for there to be an endgame-starting character class (In Tera it was the Reaper class, but a number of games had them) to try and encourage long term players who just didn't want to grind levels anymore to start another character. It was thought to be a good way to revitalize a game that has been around for a while, but it turned out to be a bit of a flash in the pan instead (again, that was not known at the time).
In Star Trek justifying why such an endgame-starting character type would exist was a bit of a problem. Sure, it would be a natural for an android/gynoid character, but CBS was adamant about not allowing it, so the next best thing was the pre-programmed three-day bioconstruct wonders the Dominion used for cannon fodder, and so the Jem'Hadar became playable (though calling it a faction when it is just one race, some ships, and a single sketchy 'Tutorial' scenario is a bit questionable.
People hoping for the Dominion faction were disappointed since they did not make one as such, just an arc where Odo showed up in the nick of time with a clone army (could have sworn I saw that somewhere else...
As for a merchant faction, if you look in social areas very few people seem to play Ferengi so making a faction for them is probably a waste of time and resources, but there are a loads and loads of miniature humans running around so a Fesarian faction whose native ships are fighting merchant ships like the East Indiaman cargo-warships of the 17th and 18th centuries (and Q-ships of WWI and WWII) were might be popular if the devs ever decide to make one (which I highly doubt).
Well technically we have a Q ship, as the Seneca does look like a cargo ship. And we did get T4 D5 Tanker and Kobayashi Maru.
Even though I've been a Trekkie since childhood, I've only been with STO for 1 year. In addition, I don't know anything about the digital gaming world. I would never have thought that the creators would have considered each faction so strategically and technically... However, when I go through the forum, the main topic among users seems to be "bugs" and "modifications", but not so much, whether there is a faction or not.
As a Trekkie, of course I don't look at it from a business perspective, but rather with love for Cardassians and Ferengi...
Thank you very much for your detailed answer!
Although I've been a Trekkie since childhood, I've only been with STO for a year. Also, I know nothing about the digital gaming world. I never thought the creators would have thought so strategically and technically about each faction. However, when I go through the forum, the main topic among users seems to be "bugs" and "modifications", but not so much whether there is a faction or not. Of course, as a Trekkie, I don't look at this from a business perspective, but rather out of naive love for Cardassians and Ferengi...
Thank you for your detailed answer!
By the way, given what you wrote, how likely do you think it is that TOS will be expanded again? Not necessarily a story arc, but more items, new ships?
I think so, but I'm afraid it won't be in the style of TOS, but in the style of SNW...
Well, because a lot of people like it and the creators back then set with AoY the TOS path...
Maybe a misunderstanding: I also have no doubt that they will deliver (more) SNW, 100%. But that's the basis of my fear: that as a result there will be no more TOS stuff... I grant the mainstream their preference (SNW), but I hope that nobody gets the idea of equating it with TOS...
Many of us would love more TOS era content, but unfortunately Cryptic is a business and the money is in content set in 2409+ and the current TV shows.
TOS was a one-time thing, and we're unlikely to see more of it unless a billionaire decides to fund the costs for Cryptic.
You speak to me from the soul! So, I've already invested around 2000 dollars in STO
They were added as playable species for the two main factions, when Cryptic was busy developing the Victory is Life-expansion.
Personally I don't see that many Cardassians in the game. Might be because those interested in playing them, had already created alien-generator-Cardassians long before they were officially added.
I was afraid to read that... But the more people speak out for TOS here, the better: constant dripping covers the stone!
I would be more interested in them if they were more like the Narn from B5 who were actually the "noble underdog" type under that irritating schemer veneer that they adopted because they thought that in order to fight the Centari successfully they had to climb into the brutal realpolitik cesspit with them.
The Cardassians did gain a bit of depth to them near the end of DS9 but by that time it was a bit too little, too late. In any case, in STO the Cardassian empire seems to be carved up into protectorate states like post WWII Germany and, except for a small internal defensive force, they serve in the fleets of whoever their zone or whatever is attached to (hence Cardassians being a playable race on both sides of the Red/Blue factions line).
As for TOS, regrettably the devs are unlikely to get any closer to the original show's googie styling than the frustratingly-close-but-no-cigar of SNW's art deco infused retrofuturism style. I can understand why (though it is disappointing) since SNW is still alive and its fans a good potential source of new (and returning) players, and on top of that Googie style is a lot harder to make since very few digital tools support Googie's shapes (which are based on golden ratio proportions and Euler spirals instead of the mechanistic radial symmetry, regular geometry, and whatnot that most toolsets are made for nowadays).
Wise words
I think the digital tools support for the existing TOS items seems to have been very good, expecting the results... Probably there are more economic reasons, because SNW is designed for the mainstream?
And yet somehow, the most important species of that tremendously larger galactic empire is missing from the game.
I can see why they haven't bothered with a Cardassian faction, even though I'd love it if there was one, but they should really start adding some more Cardassian ships to the game. Perhaps some with command seating or pilot manoeuvres. The current Cardassian ship fare is quite stale.
Calm Down Cardassians are still playable, you just have to pay for them, also according to STO Lore the Cardassian Government is Federation Aligned as whole now.
well, what else is there, TOS wise? We have the constitution, which is the only canon federation design, and we have a retro Miranda, based in the Reliant from the TMP era, along with the Pioneer, Gemini, Ranger, Sagittarius. I suppose TOS versions of the NX and Walker designs could be done, but the basic hull forms for those already exist. TOS-ing the Galaxy or Sovereign would make zero sense, the Consitutions were the largest TOS ships in the fleet unless you count the Dreadnoughts which were FASA and Franz Joseph designs, and very unlikely to see the game outside of the Atlas. TOS is rounded out, IMO, unless you want to take a shot at filling out the Romulan and KDF ranks. I can see adding TOS Era KDF ships, they are canon as late as DS9
Speaking only for myself, I'd like to see more TOS content - story episodes or TFOs. I know it won't happen, but we can dream.
I was afraid to read that... But the more people speak out for TOS here, the better: constant dripping covers the stone!
We're glad there are so many TOS-style ships. Especially for the great Atlas class, I think. What characterizes Star Trek more, a canon or breaks in continuity and the tinkering with it? It doesn't have to be other ships in the TOS style, but clothes, tools, consoles or bridge sets... There are so many wonderful possibilities, see my statement for example: DO WE NEED A "THE CAGE BUNDLE"???!!!
We're glad there are so many TOS-style ships. Especially for the great Atlas class, I think. What characterizes Star Trek more, a canon or breaks in continuity and the tinkering with it? It doesn't have to be other ships in the TOS style, but clothes, tools, consoles or bridge sets... There are so many wonderful possibilities, see my statement for example: DO WE NEED A "THE CAGE BUNDLE"???!!!
... or, for example, a revision of the K-7 grounds in the TOS style?
Would that be canon or not? Whatever, it would be cool...
Well, is a galaxy class really a combat ship?
... or post and post and post! That's how you might find a majority (or get on the nerves of others)