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Why Warp Drive is Better then Hyper Drive for an FTL
ryuranger
Member Posts: 533 Arc User
in Ten Forward
I been watching Star Wars Rebels Season 5: Asoka and I come to thinking about something Hyper Drive Sucks!! Here is why; I am gonna compare both the Pros and cons of Hyper Drive first before I can go into Warp Drive Now I am talking about Hyper Drive from Star Wars Not Stargate or Babylon 5 because there completely different then Star Wars Drives
Pros:
Its Lot Faster
IT uses Tunnels through Space or Hyper Lanes as its called
And No Ships can detect it while travelling only when its coming out of Hyper Space
Cons
It needs a Point of Destination
You Cannot Adjust Coordinates you need to put in the proceed Coordinates right away
High Gravity will not allow a ship travel light speed
coaxium Can Explode if not processed properly
Now Warp Drive
Pros
You can Adjust Coordinates on the fly
You can Adjust to gravitational anomalies if needed to kept a steady warp field
it can achieve whats known as Trans-Warp (Goes Twice as Fast as Regular Warp Drive)
You can many Different Methods to create a Warp Bubble
Warp Plasma is safer to handle
Cons
It can Be Slow max warp is 9.910 (New Scale) (till You Reach Trans-Warp Drive)
Needs to have Dilithum Crystals to create Warp Plasma Reaction
You needs to create a Mini Black Hole to create Warp Bubble (Romulans)
A Ship Can be Knocked out of Warp with out Warning
Thats all I can think off Yet I would prefer to have Warp Drive then Hyper Drive manly because you can Adjust your coordinates and do not need a point of destination like Hyper Drive needs sure its Slower the Hyper Drive but with the Advancements of Warp to Trans Warp it can become the same speed plus unlike Star Wars Star Trek always tries different methods of FTLS examples the Spore Drive (Discovery) Porto Drive(Prodigy) and the Portal Drive (Picard Season 3) while Star Wars just use Hyper Drive if you can think of anything else you can add feel free
Pros:
Its Lot Faster
IT uses Tunnels through Space or Hyper Lanes as its called
And No Ships can detect it while travelling only when its coming out of Hyper Space
Cons
It needs a Point of Destination
You Cannot Adjust Coordinates you need to put in the proceed Coordinates right away
High Gravity will not allow a ship travel light speed
coaxium Can Explode if not processed properly
Now Warp Drive
Pros
You can Adjust Coordinates on the fly
You can Adjust to gravitational anomalies if needed to kept a steady warp field
it can achieve whats known as Trans-Warp (Goes Twice as Fast as Regular Warp Drive)
You can many Different Methods to create a Warp Bubble
Warp Plasma is safer to handle
Cons
It can Be Slow max warp is 9.910 (New Scale) (till You Reach Trans-Warp Drive)
Needs to have Dilithum Crystals to create Warp Plasma Reaction
You needs to create a Mini Black Hole to create Warp Bubble (Romulans)
A Ship Can be Knocked out of Warp with out Warning
Thats all I can think off Yet I would prefer to have Warp Drive then Hyper Drive manly because you can Adjust your coordinates and do not need a point of destination like Hyper Drive needs sure its Slower the Hyper Drive but with the Advancements of Warp to Trans Warp it can become the same speed plus unlike Star Wars Star Trek always tries different methods of FTLS examples the Spore Drive (Discovery) Porto Drive(Prodigy) and the Portal Drive (Picard Season 3) while Star Wars just use Hyper Drive if you can think of anything else you can add feel free
May the Shwartz Be With You
0
Comments
Hyper Drive is likely faster though, as demonstrated here:
Niven's Quantum I hyperdrive, for centuries the only such drive in Known Space, traveled at a rate of one lightyear every three Earth days, provided you were far enough away from a gravitational point source (in "The Borderlands of Sol", there was a pirate who had managed to capture a quantum singularity in a magnetic field and was using that to strip incoming ships of their hyperdrives, then loot them and dispose of the passengers). This required a human pilot, as the mass detector which allowed the ships to avoid such gravity sources could only be observed by a living mind. The puppeteers invented the Quantum II hyperdrive, which traversed space at the rate of one lightyear every 1.5 Earth minutes, requiring a pilot to remain on constant alert. The puppeteers themselves never used it - even the insane ones, the only ones brave enough to leave their homeworld, weren't insane enough to fly such a ship. (They hired human pilots instead.)
Star Trek's warp drive is clearly superior to the Niven hyperdrives, as you can pull up very near a planet rather than having to emerge in a system's Kuiper belt and fly the rest of the way in on conventional drives (humans used fusion rockets, while the kzinti used a gravity polarizer, until the outsiders sold both sides the reactionless drive). It's slower than an Asimov hyperdrive, but it can be steered, while an Asimov drive travels in jumps through hyperspace.
Remember, after all, that "hyperdrive" is just old-school technobabble for FTL (the first known use of the phrase was in Murray Leinster's story "The Manless World" in Thrilling Wonder Stories #36, in 1946).
Hyper-drive in Stargate franchise is vary much like the Quantum Slipstream in Star Trek Voyager It uses the same kind of principle as Stargate Ships that's why I did not mention it and why its not like Star Wars Hyper-Drive because they use vary different Methods. The Only thing that makes it Different from Quantum Slipstream is the Method to achieve it They Work in the same Principle. While Star Wars universe is VARY Different its similler to the Hitchhikers Gide to the Galaxy
That scene and others suggest that regular hyperdrive fuel isn't that explosive seeing as people aren't reacting to damaged and possibly leaky hyperdrive the same way people in Trek react to warp core breaches. Which suggests that subpar processing of coaxium isn't all that common. I mean IRL there explosives that could "bleed" nitroglycerin if not properly processed/stored yet they were considered generally safe to use.
While I'm at this Blind Jumps used to be a thing in the legends and IIRC Rise of Skywalker also used a series of blind jumps so using hyperdrive without a destination is possible though not recommended.
Same seems to be the case with gravity you can jump in or into at least roughly 1g though it's not recommended kind of like it's not recommended for most cars to drive off road for extended time but it's possible if there's no other option.
Except they didn't change course IN hyperspace - they dropped out, reoriented, recalculated and then jumped back to lightspeed. Obviously it wasn't shown because that would've been a completely unnecessary scene, but that's how hyperspace worked when Lucas still owned it - Disney may have changed things as they loved to do, but Phantom Menace wasn't their creation so it abided by Lucas' rules.
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An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Transwarp is more hyperspace than warp, a Borg cube can get from one side of the galaxy to the other in minutes
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
There is a lot of evidence that suggests that regular ship fuel in Star Wars is some sort of deuterium-diesel (as in a diesel-like hydrocarbon fuel oil but with the hydrogen being mostly deuterium (and maybe trace amounts of tritium) instead of the more common protium).
Between the movies and Clone Wars series it is shown in use as both a nuclear fuel and a chemical one with properties very similar to diesel oil such as it is chemically explosive under the right circumstances but not as touchy as gasoline when it comes to sparks. It is also apparently not significantly radioactive, especially corrosive, or skin-contact poisonous on its own since Anakin and Obi-wan waded through the fuel tanks of a starship without any ill effects (and it probably wasn't coaxium since it did not glow).
Speaking of coaxium, it was not a thing until Disney took over and is one of the many compatibility issues between the Lucas and Disney versions of Star Wars and its exact place in the technology is unclear, though the issue could be resolved if is only used in the hyperspace drive itself and not in the main reactor, like having a ship perfectly functional except for FTL travel if their coaxium reserves run out.
Coaxium was shown to be a solid, metallic-looking substance stored in some kind of clear fluid or magnetic suspension or whatever in a tube, and the statement that hyperdrive reaction chambers are lined with it and energized to travel through hyperspace supports that visual from Solo.
Technically, they didn't do blind jumps in the Lucas canon stuff (though since I have not seen much of the Disney canon stuff they may do it there on a regular basis for all I know), and while it was possible to enter hyperspace without calculations Han Solo explained why it was suicidal in the original movie.
What they did do in the original canon (on very rare occasions) was use a relatively rare form of Force-sense (Mara Jade had it for example) to make jumps by feeling the way to the target in the Force without the computer or droids doing computations, (the same way that the Sith meditation spheres navigate) and even then it was considered highly dangerous with a regular ship.
And Legendarylycan is right, you cannot make turns in Star Wars hyperspace (assuming Disney has not changed that), it seems to be more like a teleport that is not instant, but you can drop out early and you end up at a spot along the path to destination proportional to the amount of trip time used at that point. Then you can set a new destination to travel to.
Then there's the fact that warp travel is like going through hell and daemonic invasion or getting lost in the warp is often not a nice fate.
Crews will go mad and insane due to the warp's properties, denizens and the laws of time and physics don't even apply.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
I played a little WH40K way back in the early days, though I did the Warhammer fantasy tabletop RPG a bit more than the space version. Still, I have read some of the later stuff and it does certainly put the 'warped' into warp drive
Anyway, except for the demonic insanity stuff that "anywhere in time and space" thing is a bit like the old Lost in Space FTL drive and a few others (including Dr. Who during the fourth Doctor's randomized travel arc).
While not exactly common, a temperamental hyperspace (or other FTL) drive system was a fairly common subgenre in sci-fi novels and whatnot for a while years ago. For instance, the Lost in Space reference may be a bit shaky since the movie was the only live action source that deep-dived into it for the plot, but a solid one would be the third reboot of SPACE CONQUERORS! (yes, the title was capitalized like that) a science fiction comic strip from back in the1970s.
A variant of that concept was a novel (I forget the title at the moment) where an experimental FTL jump drive never quite went to the coordinates programmed in so a manned test ship was made staffed with scientists and engineers to analyze the problem on a longer scale and even then they could not get the accuracy up... until they got back to Earth and discovered that they had been gone for centuries. It turned out that the drive was accurate, but it wasn't actually FTL (everything in the ship was essentially frozen in time until it got where it was going) and by the time they got to the programmed destination everything outside had moved.
As for warp vs hyperspace, there are too many different kinds out in the wilds of sci-fi to generalize, the best one can do is compare several specific drive theories from specific sci-fi universes.
I played Kotor2 (that was a bugfarm almost as bad as Daggerfall though aside from that it was a good game) a long time ago, and then SWTOR off and on up until about two years ago when I switched to a wide monitor that the game refused to recognize no matter what kludges I tried. They really need a manual override for the resolutions and aspect ratio in 'Tor.
I was referring more to the Lucas-era movies, the Clone Wars series, and the old-canon novels when I wrote that statement you quote though, and I don't remember mention of "coaxium" in any of them, or even Kotor2 and SWTOR for that matter (though it is possible it (or at least that term) was mentioned in some non-memorable way in those games or a novel).
Going to Wookieepedia to cross check turned up no "legends" references to it and a note on one of the pages that the term originated in Star Wars: Commander, which is a Disney-canon SW game.
As far as I know of, the closest that any old-canon stuff came to a separate hyperdrive fuel was "hypermatter" which were particles harvested in hyperspace and used to (as Wookieepedia puts it) " making use of supralight hypermatter particles to make the hyperspace jump without changing the ship's complex configuration of mass and energy". The energy for a jump (pre-Disney anyway) was provided by fusion reactors or in a few cases matter/antimatter reactors.
In the case of Trek, that 'cheat' is the warp bubble which slips its coordinates along (while never leaving normal space) without actually moving in an Einsteinian sense and carries the ship (which still has its pre-warp velocity) along with it.
If a Starship didn't need subspace to achieve FTL velocities... they wouldn't be affected by Omega zones.
Honestly its surprising just how much Subspace is necessary for a lot of things in Star Trek. Warp Drive, Communications, hell even the Discovery's Spore Drive accesses a realm of subspace.
Subspace seems to have so many layers, who knows what else is there?
The White Star suffers from the same scaling issues as the Defiant, IIRC it's about 200 meters or so at shortest but around 450 meters in some scenes.
It put me in mind of one Larry Niven story about a ship's crew that accidentally got lost a billion years into their future when their overspace drive malfunctioned. At one point, the ship's engineer is trying to explain what happened, and, seeing the confusion on his audience's faces, says, "You do understand that when I say 'overspace', I'm actually talking about a subspace of that overspace..."
Doesn't matter WHAT your ship is or anything, as long as you can access a Jump Gate, you have FTL Capability. Even a Federation Starship or a frickin' TIE FIGHTER can use B5 Hyperspace as long as they use Jump Gates.
1. Warp Drive/Quantum Drive (Star Trek/Orville)
2. Stargate's Hyperdrive
3. Star Wars Hyperdrive
4. Other Sci-Fi FTL
5. Babylon 5 (worst)
Yes, many things in Trek depend on subspace because their technology is largely based on the subspace transtator, but does not mean that everything that uses that technology has to actually go into subspace when using it even if using it means accessing subspace in some other way.
I suspect that (from the occasional dialog about subspace turbulence and whatnot) that something about the warp bubble needs a reasonably smooth subspace zone underpinning the normal space area the ship traverses in FTL and that if it is rough or damaged then warp travel is not as smooth, or even not possible if the damage is too great.
Dialog about warp across all of the traditional Treks, if taken together, strongly suggests that what is happening when they use warp drive it is some kind of quantum monkey business involving time and its relationship to distance in the regular space of the show. If the quantum membrane was damaged it could, in theory, suppress quantum phenomena that warp drive takes advantage of to "trick" its way past the lightspeed barrier.
If this is indeed the case then the warp drive ship itself never enters subspace, even if its bubble contains some property or particles or whatever from it, (and if it did they would probably not be able to navigate without a Medusan abord).
Generally speaking, using the norms of sci-fi, if it did enter subspace then it would be a subspace drive (a type of "other"-space drive, such as hyperspace), not a warp drive (the name of "warp drive" itself comes from it distorting (i.e. 'warping') some property of normal space to achieve FTL without leaving it).
And yes, Baylon5's hyperspace is cool. It is one of the rarer types in sci-fi, a free-roaming type of hyperspace instead of the more common linear transversal type (like what Star Wars uses where they just sort of do a ballistic-like wormhole or whatever
though hyperspace).
C.J. Cherryh used a vaguely similar system in her Alliance/Union stories though you don't really get a look at it in action (it initially seems to be the linear transversal type but is actually a free-roam type) until the Chanur series because most human minds cannot take the altered states in hyper and so set the autopilot and knock themselves out with tranqs (and the idea that human ships are essentially giant and heavily-armed AI-driven robots until the crew wakes up makes some of the races on the Chanur's side of space very nervous).
Another good (and nowhere near as weird hyperspace environment wise) example of the free-roaming hyperspace style is in the Honorverse series by David Weber.
Miguel Alcubierre was inspired by the name "warp drive" to begin investigation certain implications of inflation theory and Einstein's equations, and discovered that mathematically there's the possibility to create a pseudo-drive that would place the craft in a bubble of flat space, while causing the space before the ship to contract and the space behind to expand, "surfing" the bubble along. This takes advantage of the fact that while relativity places limits on how fast an object can move through space, it does not limit how quickly space itself can grow or shrink. Of course, there are certain issues with this, the first of which is that Alcubierre's design requires an amount of what he called "exotic matter", which is matter with negative energy potential. Not only does this matter not exist, if it did he required a mass approximately equal to the planet Jupiter. Harold White, one of NASA's pet crackpots (they keep him around in case some new fringe theory actually works out), ran some numbers on a variant design and lowered that requirement, but we still need 700 kilos of something that doesn't exist (and with the discovery of the Higgs boson, may not even be within the bounds of possibility).
Then you go into the issues that the theory allows for no way to initiate such a bubble, to see out of it during transit (the bubble is causally separated from normal spacetime - the edges essentially cut it off from the external universe), or to collapse the bubble on arrival. And should that problem be solved, we then would have to find a way to deal with the wave of Hawking radiation released from the leading edge, where spacetime was compressed, because everything you met along the way from subatomic particles to interstellar hydrogen to bits of rock and dust was squished into what amounts to a very low-mass singularity which will evaporate immediately when pressure is released.
In short, nobody's working on an Alcubierre drive because an Alcubierre drive won't work. White has gone on to some guy's "reactionless drive" that requires bouncing microwaves inside a brass cone while completely disregarding the fact that microwave photons are as massless as every other photon in the universe. (The only "result" returned from that so far goes away when the device is in vacuum and insulated from Earth's magnetic field.)
I like how the Warp is it's own separate reality, travel through it is an ordeal
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Yeeeeaaaaa... 40K's Warp is an unpredictable jump through a Hell Dimension. Even when you're not dealing with the entities that dwell within the Warp, you could arrive BEFORE you left, long after you intended to arrive, and who knows what else. And then you have the Tyranids who seem to cast a Shadow in the Warp, that literally prevents ships from jumping in or out like an Interdictor.
40K's Warp is... um... odd. Probably comparable to a version of Babylon 5's Hyperspace, but populated by psyonic entities that want to EAT you if you don't have a specific kind of shield technology.
It's fuelled by our emotions and actions as well
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Originally The Warp was the ethereal plane which was accessed by magic/psionics (the Elves still did that to some degree in the game with a network of gates in the 40k era in fact) until some sort of ancient war I forget the details of (it was a long time since I read it, and I was only lukewarm about the game in the first place), corrupted it into the hell realm it is in the 40K era.
If they ever gave a name to the drive itself I don't remember what it was (though I think they may have just called it 'warp' drive because it travelled that realm), but it functions exactly like a typical hyperspace/subspace/etc. drive, it is just the space it jumps into and out of is a lot more hostile than usual.