Was the name "Gorn" said in TOS prior to the fight (if you can call it that) between Kirk and the Gorn captain, I recall them being called "unknown alien" or the "enemy". So it's possible that these Gorn looked different enough from the ones previously encountered that Spock (or Kirk) didn't recognize them at first.
EDIT:You could have this not break canon, by this conflict ending in a de facto truce, but without a formal treaty, but because of it another species gains dominance within the Hegemony and they use their own aesthetics for their ships, it's one of those ships that Enterprise encounters during Arena and they don't recognize as a Gorn ship and by the time Spock puts 2 and 2 together the conflict is over and there's no reason of showing that in the episode.
"The Metrons called a Gorn" that doesn't mean they had never heard that name before, besides at that point Kirk was in a life and death struggle so had no time to philosophize about how this looks nothing like any Gorn he has heard of.
He'd probably assume that either the Metrons or Starfleet was mistaken about the Gorn but that it also wasn't relevant at that point. Starfleet doesn't name their enemy as the Gorn until after the encounter with the Metrons.
The ironic part of SNW making the monstrous xenomorph style Gorn is that in Arena the whole point of the plot was an exploration of the perils of making assumptions based on looks (the Gorn were big and scary looking but turn out to be good people after all the action and assumptions are put aside, and before that the Gorn assumed that the Federation was an expansionist empire starting to seize the Gorn worlds). That is what the "instinctive revulsion to reptiles" line (and others by way of inference) was there to point out.
They were never meant to be recurring villains, it was all just a misunderstanding that got out of hand.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,832Community Moderator
Perhaps, but again they were a clean slate species ripe for exploration. The events in SNW doesn't contradict anything from Arena. The Gorn could see the Federation as a threat to their borders, while the Federation's just sitting there like "WTF is going on?"
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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In "Hegemony", the Gorn seem to be attracted to the worlds they're attacking not because of the presence of humans (in fact, the last two have been outside Federation space), but apparently because of something to do with stellar activity. Scotty was aboard a ship checking into unusual stellar activity in the next system over when they were hit by Gorn, who may well have attacked the ship because it was in what they perceived to be space belonging to the Hegemony rather than out of any sort of active malice, and similar sunspot activity was noted on the star in this system before the Gorn issued an image clearly declaring that the planet was, for the next few weeks, in their space. Their actions on the surface also don't seem those of an enemy determined to slaughter all humans; no organized sweeps, no adult soldiers standing guard, just the feral juvenile forms out looking for food in the city. One supposes that when the strike ends and we get the s3 opener, these matters will be explained.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,832Community Moderator
edited August 2023
Exactly.
We can speculate as to what's going on, but we can't cry foul because we're not presented with all the data we need to say one way or the other. We're only playing with half a deck as it were. How can we judge if we don't know everything to base said judgement on?
As of right now the Gorn are just mysterious and seemingly hostile, but not in the conquering empire kind of way like the Klingons were. There's something more at play here, we just don't know what that is yet.
And IMO... this is something Star Trek needs. Something truly Alien. And what better candidate to explore that, then a little known REPTILIAN species?
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
but it won't stop me enjoying the episode I'm watching.
I agree with this 100%… I watch the show for entertainment purposes, and I have been thoroughly entertained by almost everything that has shown up on SNW…
As for the design of the Gorn... I like it. Really makes them feel truly alien.
Now... how do we reconcile the TOS Gorn with the SNW Gorn? Maybe they're going to do what was done in Beta Canon where the Gorn are actually like three races with a common ancestor that decided to band together rather than fight each other. Or maybe the Gorn in TOS was an Elder who had lost his tail in battle.
There ARE ways to work it, we just gotta give them time TO work it.
Again, I agree… no one nowadays wants to sit and see actors with dad bods wearing rubber suits play seriously fake looking aliens. The new Gorn are more convincing.
Besides, it’s not technically over… the season ended on a cliffhanger. We are nowhere near seeing how they will end this…
Like other posters, I would be all in support of the addition to the game of the alt look to the species.. Heck, I would even create a Gorn finally since they wouldn’t look so corny (to me at least)…
CRM
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Strange New Worlds is set at least 10 years before Arena, which is the first time the Federation had contact with the Gorn.
It's this sort of ignorance of established canon that makes me not watch any of the new "Trek."
The episode did not say it was the first time. It said that they were surprised to find Gorn anywhere near Cestus III, and that the Federation knew next to nothing about them. That, combined with this episode, would tend to indicate that the Gorn have a tendency to simply declare regions of space that belong to them, and then "defend" them. Then the Metrons got involved, and that became less important.
But I guess it's more fun to bash on new shows than go back to watch the old ones rather than worship them.
Maybe it wouldn't be so easy to make fun of it if it wasn't written by CW rejects that never saw a episode of Star Trek....it's like Klutzman and crew put a ad on craig's list for writer just so could pay them dirt cheap and spend every dime on pew pew special effects (which clearly got cheaper each season, not something that would happen if it was the runaway hit people claimed)
(Real-world politics removed. - BMR)
It's Akiva Goldsman. I promise promise promise you. The man is the worst thing to have hit Hollywood since... i dunno. ever. I was active in Hollywood when he was getting his fangs in-- in fact, I went to a "Writer's Symposium" he hosted one year where he discussed what it was like to be an "up and coming" "talent" in Hollywood and he basically explained how he was positioned (then) / in position (now) to be one of 2 or 3 people that literally get the last pass over almost every script that passes to production. Srs.Bsnz. Every awesome memory, or fanboy flame, or anything that really could've been totally cool, but then somehow made its way to your eyeballs via whatever screen in the form of a flaming piece of surprisingly huge irreversible brain traumatizing Budweiser horse excrement?-- Akiva Goldsman. ev-er-y-thing.
look him up. I dare ya. Anything from the mid to late 90's onward that had potential and then just-- with the grossness-- and the stink lines-- and, the-- well, you get the picture. It's all Akiva Goldsman.
Thread has nothing to do with STO. /moved to Ten Forward
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EDIT:You could have this not break canon, by this conflict ending in a de facto truce, but without a formal treaty, but because of it another species gains dominance within the Hegemony and they use their own aesthetics for their ships, it's one of those ships that Enterprise encounters during Arena and they don't recognize as a Gorn ship and by the time Spock puts 2 and 2 together the conflict is over and there's no reason of showing that in the episode.
He'd probably assume that either the Metrons or Starfleet was mistaken about the Gorn but that it also wasn't relevant at that point. Starfleet doesn't name their enemy as the Gorn until after the encounter with the Metrons.
They were never meant to be recurring villains, it was all just a misunderstanding that got out of hand.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
We can speculate as to what's going on, but we can't cry foul because we're not presented with all the data we need to say one way or the other. We're only playing with half a deck as it were. How can we judge if we don't know everything to base said judgement on?
As of right now the Gorn are just mysterious and seemingly hostile, but not in the conquering empire kind of way like the Klingons were. There's something more at play here, we just don't know what that is yet.
And IMO... this is something Star Trek needs. Something truly Alien. And what better candidate to explore that, then a little known REPTILIAN species?
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I agree with this 100%… I watch the show for entertainment purposes, and I have been thoroughly entertained by almost everything that has shown up on SNW…
Again, I agree… no one nowadays wants to sit and see actors with dad bods wearing rubber suits play seriously fake looking aliens. The new Gorn are more convincing.
Besides, it’s not technically over… the season ended on a cliffhanger. We are nowhere near seeing how they will end this…
Like other posters, I would be all in support of the addition to the game of the alt look to the species.. Heck, I would even create a Gorn finally since they wouldn’t look so corny (to me at least)…
CRM
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
It's Akiva Goldsman. I promise promise promise you. The man is the worst thing to have hit Hollywood since... i dunno. ever. I was active in Hollywood when he was getting his fangs in-- in fact, I went to a "Writer's Symposium" he hosted one year where he discussed what it was like to be an "up and coming" "talent" in Hollywood and he basically explained how he was positioned (then) / in position (now) to be one of 2 or 3 people that literally get the last pass over almost every script that passes to production. Srs.Bsnz. Every awesome memory, or fanboy flame, or anything that really could've been totally cool, but then somehow made its way to your eyeballs via whatever screen in the form of a flaming piece of surprisingly huge irreversible brain traumatizing Budweiser horse excrement?-- Akiva Goldsman. ev-er-y-thing.
look him up. I dare ya. Anything from the mid to late 90's onward that had potential and then just-- with the grossness-- and the stink lines-- and, the-- well, you get the picture. It's all Akiva Goldsman.
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