Theory Main Villain is Dukat and Pah-wraith Star Trek Picard Spoilers if you have Not Seen S3 Yet

ryuranger

OK what the F is going on with Jack anyone got a clue I have one Pah-wraiths and Gal Dukat! Now here is why I think of this Think about 1 Episode of "Star Trek DS9 S07E02 Shadows and Symbols" where the Pah-wraiths created the Benny Illusion from several episodes before to try to manipulate Sisko to brake him so they can stop him from realizing the Orb of the Emissary. Now lets look at Jack Crusher with episode 5 he is having the same Day Dreams or Nightmares like Sisko But he kept getting back in control and why We see a Red Door and who could behind it well What Super Villain from Deep Space 9 that Got locked in the Fire Caves anyone... GAL DUKAT! HE is trying to get control Jacks body in order to release him from the fire caves and Dukat is using the Changelings Terrorist to get to him and weaken Jack so Dukat can Control him so he can use him as a Vessel to realse the Pah-Wraiths and burn the Galaxy

rattler2

Not enough evidence to support that. So far all we know is that some new kind of Changeling is around, and they're getting orders from someone.

jonsills

And I'm starting to wonder if these guys might not be Founders at all, but in fact another species of shapeshifter, like the Undine only without the telepathy.

phoenixc

True, there could be another species of protoplasmic intelligent life. Personally though, I suspect it is just more of the usual NuTrek misunderstanding of the traditional Treks causing more distortions. They seem end up in the worldbuilding equivalent of the uncanny valley fairly often when they do make an effort to get traditional Trek right.

Also, I am not sure if the current writers even know who Gul Dukat is and the Wraith angle, especially if they went out of the way to hire non-fans like they (at least initially) did for DSC. The DSC writers and other creative staff were interviewed for things like the behind-the-scenes features and whatnot like usual, and most said they either never saw Star Trek, didn't really like it, or only saw some of the movies.

None of the DSC staff said they were TOS fans (the ones who did mention it were quite disparaging about it), which was not exactly a great thing considering at the time they had placed DSC right between The Cage and TOS, so it would not surprise me too much if PIC is mostly written by people who did nothing but read synopsis of TNG episodes without ever having seen the series (or more to the point in this thread, never having seen DS9 and just going by brief synopses from it).

ryuranger

jonsills wrote: »

And I'm starting to wonder if these guys might not be Founders at all, but in fact another species of shapeshifter, like the Undine only without the telepathy.

They most likley the once that the Founders set to explore the universe

jonsills

ryuranger wrote: »

jonsills wrote: »

And I'm starting to wonder if these guys might not be Founders at all, but in fact another species of shapeshifter, like the Undine only without the telepathy.

They most likley the once that the Founders set to explore the universe

And now we know where they came from. And why we don't like S31.

ryuranger

Yeah but the episode gave us more Questions on how Jack Controlled Snide La-forge I think I came up the Answer with that "The Borg" Here me out we Know that Admiral Picard Irumodic Syndrome in is brain deals basically with imaginations go wiled and while he was born with it and when he was Assimilated as Locutus of Borg he created Unimatrix Zero because of his brain defect. Since Beverly and Picard had Jack years later it can be some of the Borg DNA transferred to Jack that allowed him basically controlled Snide and Irumodic Syndrome the key to the Changelings plan as well

phoenixc

ryuranger wrote: »

Yeah but the episode gave us more Questions on how Jack Controlled Snide La-forge I think I came up the Answer with that "The Borg" Here me out we Know that Admiral Picard Irumodic Syndrome in is brain deals basically with imaginations go wiled and while he was born with it and when he was Assimilated as Locutus of Borg he created Unimatrix Zero because of his brain defect. Since Beverly and Picard had Jack years later it can be some of the Borg DNA transferred to Jack that allowed him basically controlled Snide and Irumodic Syndrome the key to the Changelings plan as well

The closest thing to a "Borg DNA" is nanites, and those are very easy to detect with Federation tech so I doubt Jack has anything like that or he would have set off alarms every time he had a checkup or used a public transporter.

Also, Locutus did not create Unimatrix Zero, it existed long before he was created from Picard in TNG. It was created by drones with a mutation related to telepathic sensitivity somehow (though the technobabble did not clarify why exactly, just mentioned that it was so) and Seven had that mutation so she was a part of the Unimatrix Zero community from the time she was assimilated.

jonsills

Also, Borg tech is about assimilation into a single collective. What Jack demonstrated was strong, albeit unconscious, telepathy - he was able to hear surface thoughts in Sydney's mind, and direct brief bursts of action under extreme duress while she wasn't fighting against it, but he never tried to take her over or change her thoughts. Think more Jean Grey/Phoenix than Borg.

ryuranger

True then it has to be the changelings that caused the link between them

rattler2

I don't think so... There's something else at play here.

ryuranger

Its the Borg Queen I think and here is why Think Transformers for a second here guys Now When a Deceptions or Autobots combine They work together as one team one Voice and they share that experience with each of the combiners expect for the Combaticons there a loos cannon that group This info came from Transformers Robots In Disguise 3rd Season. Back to Star Trek Look at The Borg They are a collective that Assimilates everyone including DNA and we know from 7 of 9 that there are still implants in her body and we know Picard still as implants in his body as well and we know in Star Trek First Contact he was able to here the Collective and in Season 1 the X Borg saw Locutus of Borg So if we use the Transformers way when the combined there minds and the Borg are the same as many voices as one then Picard's Human DNA was altered by the Borg when was Assimilated but it was not really detected so when Bevaly had Jack that Borg DNA Code that was in Picard transferal to Jack he is able to read minds like the Borg and control people like the Borg The Red Door that Picard had Locked and Key is non other then the Collective them selves and the Changelings are working with The Borg Collective to Finally Assimilate Earth

timelords1701

@ryuranger I think your truly going off on a wild tangent now..
If anything the next episode will reveal who we are truly dealing with as the big bad guy in picard.
Perhaps its just best to wait till then, as we only have 2 more episodes to go for all to be revealed and concluded..

rattler2

I think we can all blame Section 31 for being the ultimate CAUSE. As to who is leading this... yea we still don't know.

theraven2378

Laas possibly

timelords1701

If anything, I think @ryuranger is closer to the money with his original post of it possibly being Du'kat and the pah wraith.
But as i previously said, all will be revealed in the next week or two.

angusmcfifexiii

I subscribe to the theory that somehow the Pah-Wraiths are influencing Jack Crusher as well, I guess we will find out next week. I will admit I am glad they found a loop hole so Brent Spiner can play Data again and the scene in the conference room made me smile.

legendarylycan

Which makes no sense whatsoever, because before Picard's first season, Spiner made it abundantly clear that, like Harrison Ford and Han Solo, he was absolutely DONE with anything relating to Data, and the only reason he even agreed to return as Data in the first season was that Patrick Stewart had to literally beg him to do so - and while he did, he also made it clear that Data was to be dead and gone PERMANENTLY by the end of the season so he'd never have to be bothered about it again.

So I'd like to know what the hell changed (or more likely how many hundreds of thousands he was promised) to STILL be playing Data.​​

jonsills

And Leonard Nimoy swore he was done with Spock, even writing a book about it, and only agreed to appear in TWoK on the condition that Spock dies. He changed his mind later. Presumably, Brent underwent something similar.

phoenixc

According to an interview back when the first season teasers first came out (or thereabouts), Brent Spiner's reason for not wanting to play Data again was that there was no reasonable explanation for the visible age difference and he didn't want to run around in a motion capture suit or whatever to make the character look believable. The current solution eliminates that problem.

ryuranger

The Only reason Why he was Done with Data was because he was getting Old and Data was Immortal that's why i did not want to be deaged and he did not want to put on porthsetics but instead he asked for him to be put in a Golem like Picard to allow him to show Data's age and make him more Human Spiner More range that he can do with the character because he loved Data in Star Trek himself but the thing was he was getting hold and they did not know how to put that in to a Ageless Android

ryuranger

I TOLD YOU ALL THAT IT WAS THE BORG AND THEY DID THROUGH PICARD"S DNA THAT WAS PASSED TO JACK THE CLOSE WAS ALL THERE I TOLD YOU I TOLD YOU HA

rattler2

Well... TECHNICALLY you were saying it was Dukat and the Pah Wraiths first.

ryuranger

At First but after when Jake was able to Control Sydney with his mind Then I started to think of The Borg Remember what I said about the Combiners in Transformers The Borg works almost the same way the only difference its one Mind of Many while is Many Minds Working as one that's actually the difference from Season 2 Borg that joined the Federation ( they are on Probation and not part of the Original Collective). You come to think of your self whats the difference what you said well here it is with Borg Queen she controls Many minds at once there thoughts there moments there every being its like the ANTI Life that Dark Side Keeps looking for In the DC comics. While Juradie and the Combiners work as Many minds where there are individuals linked together and they work as one a team rather then slaves like the Borg Queen Dose that's when it hit me that they did something to Picard while he was assimilated while he was Lacutice and passed that on to Jake second Generation and now we know the truth and I think the Combiner Borg thats what I call them will come and save the day and help with the Crew of the Enterprise

theraven2378

What the Borg did was foreshadowed in Voyager's Dark Frontier.
They changed strategy and I've got to say it was most insidious because Starfleet did not see it coming.