Are you suggesting that the developers intend for the average ISA to be completed in under 30 seconds?
I don't think that's the implication at all. I personally think its just a case of players growing faster than the Devs anticipated. And honestly Infected used to have ways to cheese it years ago before we even had T6 and all the power creep we have now.
There was a time that the Gate was not untargetable and only had rediculous regen as long as the Transformers were active. Back then there was the 10% rule of bring the generators down to 10% then nuke them all at once and pound the Transformer before the probes got there. Rince and repeat on the other side. But then people figured out how to cheese it with Tricobalt Mines, enabling enough spike damage to not only overcome the regen, but literally kill the gate BEFORE the Transformers were destroyed. Cryptic's response to that was... not exactly well received as it basically made Tricobalt useless. Decreasing the overall damage, but keeping the "DPS" the same as pre-nerf Tricos. Kinda defeated the purpose of Tricos being spike damage but... it kinda solved that problem. Then we had another issue come up, and I think that eventually led to the current incarnation where the Gate is shielded and untargetable until the Transformers die.
Are you suggesting that the developers intend for the average ISA to be completed in under 30 seconds?
I don't think that's the implication at all. I personally think its just a case of players growing faster than the Devs anticipated. And honestly Infected used to have ways to cheese it years ago before we even had T6 and all the power creep we have now.
There was a time that the Gate was not untargetable and only had rediculous regen as long as the Transformers were active. Back then there was the 10% rule of bring the generators down to 10% then nuke them all at once and pound the Transformer before the probes got there. Rince and repeat on the other side. But then people figured out how to cheese it with Tricobalt Mines, enabling enough spike damage to not only overcome the regen, but literally kill the gate BEFORE the Transformers were destroyed. Cryptic's response to that was... not exactly well received as it basically made Tricobalt useless. Decreasing the overall damage, but keeping the "DPS" the same as pre-nerf Tricos. Kinda defeated the purpose of Tricos being spike damage but... it kinda solved that problem. Then we had another issue come up, and I think that eventually led to the current incarnation where the Gate is shielded and untargetable until the Transformers die.
It's not just Infected though. High-powered energy weapons or spore infused anomalies triggering up to 6 times off three or four anomalies each will quickly mean that players run out of HP to target on any map.
And I don't think it's a good theory, the idea that it's just the result of some unforeseen, fast development of players. Power creep is sold and constantly promoted. Not just in the conventional ways like through new OP traits and consoles, but also by adding free bonuses like those from endeavours (which are free both in the sense of not requiring purchase, as well as no sacrifice/choices required) and through upgrade tokens that allow stacking of even more effects and powers.
I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I remember when I had to work to get something like 25% crit chance and 150% critd. Those were numbers I considered high and once achieved, I'd treat the ship as finished (or at least the weapon dealing part of the ship would be considered finished).
Now I have a toon that was created mere weeks ago and her legendary sovereign has 31,5 Crit chance and 199,6 Crit severity - outside of combat. And that's not even the highest I've seen across my toons. And for the record: I didn't even try that hard to achieve these numbers, if I wanted, I could probably easily increase those even further.
Think about it: the crit severity and crit chance on a new toon are now easily and with little effort much higher than what would - a few years ago - have been considered very high on veteran toons with tons of investments having gone into them. And that's just those two stats.
Deliberate or not, if your build and skill level is causing other players to receive a penalty, you are a big part of the problem.
When somebody receives a penalty normally associated with being absent, one possible option might be to consider exploring different ways of doing things in order to not receive such a penalty.
Really. How insightful. Kindly elucidate one or more ways in which one might do things differently in order to avoid receiving a penalty for failing to do damage when one is literally not presented with an opportunity to do said damage.
When somebody receives a penalty normally associated with being absent, one possible option might be to consider exploring different ways of doing things in order to not receive such a penalty.
One of the borg STF's. By the time my ship has got to the cubes two ships the size of a shuttle has already reached them, wiped all of them out and have went on to the side and has already taken down half of the conduits. By the time ive managed to get a shot off, literally ONE...SHOT...OFF these little Attack Pattern Credit Card ships have blown everything up.
That was the experience ive had with a Fleet Excelsior running MK12 AP beams with the full assimilated set and it happened several times on my first return to this game 2 weeks ago after a 4 year break. Four of my friends who also decided to come back also experienced this, they stayed for one day, branded the current ST:O "Pay to win gone insane" and quit.
I decided to stick around though and throw some cash at Dil and the exchange to overhaul the current ships i had. The plain fact is though that the massive gap between "normal" damage, and the attack pattern credit card damage is causing people to quit.
"You know when that shark bites, with its teeth dear... scarlet billows start to spread..."
Deliberate or not, if your build and skill level is causing other players to receive a penalty, you are a big part of the problem.
When somebody receives a penalty normally associated with being absent, one possible option might be to consider exploring different ways of doing things in order to not receive such a penalty.
Really. How insightful. Kindly elucidate one or more ways in which one might do things differently in order to avoid receiving a penalty for failing to do damage when one is literally not presented with an opportunity to do said damage.
I'd be happy to try and help Jon. I had to google elucidate. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that whatever you do for fun is wrong, just that it may not be the best option for the particular advanced TFO map that has been known to go a little quickly for some players tastes. Your own unique sense of canon is always right, until it results in a penalty. At that point the first thing I'd suggest is to use the loadout system, thusly..
By separating your "canon fun" and doing "more damage", both can be preserved. Now it's possible to do normal difficulty TFO's, missions, and events using your canon fun loadout and then switch to something different when on that particular advanced map to avoid penalties. Lots of the uberdeepz players use different loadouts for different maps so why not follow their lead ?
With that out of the way let's explore what to do differently in order to avoid receiving a penalty.
Replace emergency power to shields with emergency power to engines. Keep on using ep to weapons.
Add an Emergency Conn Officer duty officer (from the Phoenix store) to your active duty (space) roster.
Slot some deuterium in one of your ship's device slots, press P, and drag the ability to your tray.
That is it! (well almost) Since the absent penalty is based on doing less than about two percent of a team's damage, being more mobile makes a huge difference as all that's really needed is to get some shots in. The conn officer gives you the ability to reset evasive maneuvers by using EPtE and the deuterium surplus is yet another opportunity at getting where you need to go, quickly, to get more shots in.
Since you've mentioned a few specific things about one of your builds previously I'll add a couple more things to try in order to do more damage..
Remove all torpedoes aside from the one facing FORWARD and replace them with beam arrays.
Remove the mine and replace it with another beam array.
When on advanced "eat first and then sip your drink"
When somebody receives a penalty normally associated with being absent, one possible option might be to consider exploring different ways of doing things in order to not receive such a penalty.
One of the borg STF's. By the time my ship has got to the cubes two ships the size of a shuttle has already reached them, wiped all of them out and have went on to the side and has already taken down half of the conduits. By the time ive managed to get a shot off, literally ONE...SHOT...OFF these little Attack Pattern Credit Card ships have blown everything up.
That was the experience ive had with a Fleet Excelsior running MK12 AP beams with the full assimilated set and it happened several times on my first return to this game 2 weeks ago after a 4 year break. Four of my friends who also decided to come back also experienced this, they stayed for one day, branded the current ST:O "Pay to win gone insane" and quit.
I decided to stick around though and throw some cash at Dil and the exchange to overhaul the current ships i had. The plain fact is though that the massive gap between "normal" damage, and the attack pattern credit card damage is causing people to quit.
The Fleet Excelsior is one of my favorite ships.
In addition to the things mentioned above, you may want to try some Competitive reputation engines.
Here's a video link that talks about things players do to get themselves around a map. Starting about 27:10 is some tips specific to Infected Space. Having somebody take the time to go through this step by step is a beautiful thing.
These days it's not always possible to do much in the way of damage without mobility.
I don't always get it right but having a few tools and techniques available really seems to help.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,588Community Moderator
I would also, once again, like to ask the question...
Pay2Win... what? There is nothing to win! Its Pay2HaveNow. There is no win in STO as no one is competing! Its not like in Elite Dangerous or Eve where you put real money in and get a significant advantage. Hell... its possible to get shiny without paying a dime when you got patience and lots of Dilithium. I literally ground out many large bundles including the 10th Anniversary Legendary Bundle! How is it P2W when someone like me can literally grind it out and have access to it?
I can never understand the P2W argument with STO because... win WHAT?
But then people figured out how to cheese it with Tricobalt Mines, enabling enough spike damage to not only overcome the regen, but literally kill the gate BEFORE the Transformers were destroyed. Cryptic's response to that was... not exactly well received as it basically made Tricobalt useless. Decreasing the overall damage, but keeping the "DPS" the same as pre-nerf Tricos. .
They didn’t keep the Tricobalt DPS the same they nerfed it to uselessness while also nerfing the spike damage which is why it wasn’t well received. Tricobalts have needed a serious look and rebalance for years. Ruining an entire weapon system due to one NPC being killed on 1 map with a tiny fraction of the player base is a major over reaction. I know this is off topic its just the state of Tricobalts frustrates me with the nerf after nerf after nerf to the point where there is no longer any point in using Tricobalts.
Tricobalts due to the nerfs are the only weapon system you cannot really build a theme around. There is no benefit in running Tricobalts they are worse then every other weapon system in every way. With the exception possibly of 1 single Tricobalt mine.
When somebody receives a penalty normally associated with being absent, one possible option might be to consider exploring different ways of doing things in order to not receive such a penalty.
One of the borg STF's. By the time my ship has got to the cubes two ships the size of a shuttle has already reached them, wiped all of them out and have went on to the side and has already taken down half of the conduits. By the time ive managed to get a shot off, literally ONE...SHOT...OFF these little Attack Pattern Credit Card ships have blown everything up.
That was the experience ive had with a Fleet Excelsior running MK12 AP beams with the full assimilated set and it happened several times on my first return to this game 2 weeks ago after a 4 year break. Four of my friends who also decided to come back also experienced this, they stayed for one day, branded the current ST:O "Pay to win gone insane" and quit.
I decided to stick around though and throw some cash at Dil and the exchange to overhaul the current ships i had. The plain fact is though that the massive gap between "normal" damage, and the attack pattern credit card damage is causing people to quit.
Why are you only using MK XII's!? It's cheap as chips to upgrade these days, don't turn your nose up at it. Get your stuff upgraded to MK XV as soon as,; use your Dil to buy phoenix upgrades. It doesn't have to be Epic, but even at MK XV the performance gain is considerably greater.
There is zero P2W in STO....absolutely nothing to 'win'. You don't compete against anyone except in Competivitive TFO's and direct PvP. You can't have your stuff destroyed, you can't have your resources stolen, you can't be forced into PvP, you're not having to keep gambling on packs trying to acquire 20 copies of a Boff, or hundreds of copies of a ship to upgrade and so on, and so forth. Saying this game is P2W is a lazy excuse, sorry.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Always interesting to see how some in the DPS community totally miss the mark, use words like disingenuous and hypocritical without applying the same to themselves, and providing lengthy diatribes to try justify their view and bully others into accepting their play style. The level of narcissism never ceases to amaze.
You talk an awful lot about "bullying others into accepting their playstyle" and not applying standards to ones self but to be perfectly blunt, I see alot of folks who share your viewpoint doing exactly that. Applying double standards and bullying others into accepting their playstyle.
By the logic I've seen people use in this thread who share your viewpoint, it's perfectly acceptable and fine for them to demand the game be altered for everyone across the board to suit their non-dps chasing playstyle because they don't like that people can do damage above a certain threshold as they fell it gives out too many AFK penalties. Yet if someone like myself pushes back and says they need to alter their build and/or tactics to avoid an AFK penalty, suddenly in their book I'm gatekeeping and "not considering my fellow player". In other words it's okay for them to demand my gameplay be altered to suit them, but how dare I use that same kind of logic and demand them change what they're doing.
Deliberate or not, if your build and skill level is causing other players to receive a penalty, you are a big part of the problem.
I am not responsible for your build and your knowledge of the game anymore than you are responsible for mine. If someone who is brand new to the game comes into a TFO with subpar build and/or tactics and they receive an AFK penalty as a result of not being ready for the content, that's not my problem. I am not a mind reader and I have no way of knowing if that person next to me in that TFO has been playing for only a week, or has been playing since closed beta.
Have you ever stopped to think that if someone is consistently getting an AFK penalty that maybe, just maybe they're the problem and not the game or other players? I know it's almost blasphemy to even suggest such a thing. The definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing again and again expecting different results.
If you or anyone else are going to insist that myself or others should "be considerate of other players" and alter my build so as to "give everyone a chance to participate", why can I not demand YOU change YOUR build so you can participate easier? Why should I or anyone else have to alter our playstyle or our builds? When people demand the game be altered for myself and others due to their dislike of "insta vape" and demand that I alter my build to suit them, yet get mad at me for suggesting they be the ones to change THEIR build or tactics so they can participate better, I'm sorry but that's absolute hypocrisy in my book.
If you're going to apply your own logic equally, if folks can demand I change my build, I can demand they change theirs. You don't get to have it both ways.
Five people are invited to a party and one person eats the entire buffet before anyone else has the opportunity to take a single bite. Their reasoning is "I am hungrier and can eat more than you, so it is your fault you did not get any food."
Under most social situations, who in that story would be considered rude? I believe what some people here are asking is for that one person to remember to be considerate of others and to share the food.
Your analogy is a loaded question as first and foremost you're assuming that if someone eats more than another person does, it equates to malice. Or in this case, if someone goes into a TFO with a build that's just leagues ahead of another person in damage, they are trying to be malicious to that person. You can make that argument if you want, but you bear the burden of proof to demonstrate maliciousness, and you haven't presented any credible evidence of this.
With that said, let's take the torpedoes out of that analogy of yours and try again. Let's suppose that tomorrow we found out CBS was going to release a new Enterprise F mini-figure to certain stores. Let's suppose a local store has 2 of the figures left and I grab both of those figures with the intent of buying one for myself, and the second for a friend. Let's also suppose that right after I've paid for the figures, another person comes into the store and finds out I just bought the last 2 the store had. This person then offers to buy the second one from me, but I refuse to sell it to them because I am giving the second one to my friend. Tell me, am I wrong for refusing to give that person the second figure? If you believe that I would be wrong in that situation, why would I be wrong? And be specific.
Your food analogy ignores several key factors. The first of which is those people arriving at the same time as each other, and each of the 5 people having the same access to the food. If the first 4 people go ahead and eat while the 5th guy stands around talking to people at the party and the 5th guy misses out on food, that is purely the 5th guy's fault as he deliberately chose not to eat while the food was still available.
I'll give another example using my previous mini-figure example. Let's suppose that this local shop gets 50 of them in stock. Instead of going early when the shop still has it's full stock, the guy waits until right when the shop is about to close and he misses out on those last 2 figures because I got there first, who is at fault, me for buying both, or him for waiting too late?
I will repeat, I personally do not see DPS limits as the answer. I will also say that I find it very difficult to believe that Cryptic finds absolutely no issue whatsoever with players entering normal and advanced level TFOs and vaporizing the entire map in under 30 seconds, especially if that behavior is causing other players to suffer an AFK penalty. Players fundamentally want to feel like they have achieved something, and high DPS players wiping an entire map before someone else can even get a single shot off is antithetical to that, not to mention the risk versus reward and timesink structures.
We can debate what's intentional and what isn't but so long as beating a map in 30 seconds or less doesn't violate terms of service, it's ultimately irrelevant. If you or someone else goes into a run with a ship that moves at the speed of smell, and get a team of people in much faster ships that kill everything before that person in the slower ship can even get there, how is it the fault of the people with the faster ships that the 5th guy deliberately chose a much slower ship?
What you're failing to realize is that again, all players who meet the minimum standards set forth by the game itself for a TFO have a right to be in there, dps chaser and non-dps chaser alike. If the non-chasers are going into an area they are likely to encounter dps chasers, they bear the responsibility for planning accordingly. If the non-chaser doesn't plan accordingly and gets an AFK penalty as a result, it's like knowing it might rain but refusing to pack an umbrella then getting mad at the weather guy you get wet.
When it comes to an AFK penalty, to even get one you need to have done less than 1%-2% of the damage for the entirety of the run. Take ISA for example. The last time I went into an ISA the team did a total of around 45m damage over the totality of the run which was around 73 seconds. I don't know what the actual total amount of health is for everything in that TFO, but let's say for argument sake it's 45m. In order for a person to avoid the AFK penalty, this means they would need to deal 450k damage over the totality of the run, which is 1% of 45m. Assuming this person was in the 73 second run with me and the others I was with, this person would've needed to do 6200 DPS. If we assume a slower run of 2 minutes and 30 seconds, which used to be the average for ISA way back when, this lowers the total DPS required to 3k. The longer the run, the lower the overall damage output required.
A basic cohesive ship using only the free mk xii very rare gear you get from missions can get there in around 2 firing cycles using 7 beams and a torpedo while under the effects of Emergency Power to Weapons, Attack Pattern Beta, FAW, and Torpedo Spread. Anything else is gravy. I don't see what's so unreasonable about expecting your teammates to at least 1% of the damage.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Please stop this hostile interrogation of everyone, and everything that is being said. This is not suitable behavior for a Community Moderator. Green tag or not, please behave yourself.
I'm struggling to see where your relentless disagreement with every opinion fits into this discussion. You are way off the mark, have missed the point entirely, and still don't seem to understand the subject matter of the Original Post.
If you do not like this conversation or the subject matter, then i respectfully suggest that you consider finding a conversation that you do like, and engage with that instead.
Frankly, i'm shocked that this level of hostile aggression is allowed to run unchecked on the "Official Star Trek Online Forum."
Alright. This is it. Final warning to EVERYONE. Act civilly and stop sniping each other. I will be closing this thread next.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Comments
I don't think that's the implication at all. I personally think its just a case of players growing faster than the Devs anticipated. And honestly Infected used to have ways to cheese it years ago before we even had T6 and all the power creep we have now.
There was a time that the Gate was not untargetable and only had rediculous regen as long as the Transformers were active. Back then there was the 10% rule of bring the generators down to 10% then nuke them all at once and pound the Transformer before the probes got there. Rince and repeat on the other side. But then people figured out how to cheese it with Tricobalt Mines, enabling enough spike damage to not only overcome the regen, but literally kill the gate BEFORE the Transformers were destroyed. Cryptic's response to that was... not exactly well received as it basically made Tricobalt useless. Decreasing the overall damage, but keeping the "DPS" the same as pre-nerf Tricos. Kinda defeated the purpose of Tricos being spike damage but... it kinda solved that problem. Then we had another issue come up, and I think that eventually led to the current incarnation where the Gate is shielded and untargetable until the Transformers die.
It's not just Infected though. High-powered energy weapons or spore infused anomalies triggering up to 6 times off three or four anomalies each will quickly mean that players run out of HP to target on any map.
And I don't think it's a good theory, the idea that it's just the result of some unforeseen, fast development of players. Power creep is sold and constantly promoted. Not just in the conventional ways like through new OP traits and consoles, but also by adding free bonuses like those from endeavours (which are free both in the sense of not requiring purchase, as well as no sacrifice/choices required) and through upgrade tokens that allow stacking of even more effects and powers.
I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I remember when I had to work to get something like 25% crit chance and 150% critd. Those were numbers I considered high and once achieved, I'd treat the ship as finished (or at least the weapon dealing part of the ship would be considered finished).
Now I have a toon that was created mere weeks ago and her legendary sovereign has 31,5 Crit chance and 199,6 Crit severity - outside of combat. And that's not even the highest I've seen across my toons. And for the record: I didn't even try that hard to achieve these numbers, if I wanted, I could probably easily increase those even further.
Think about it: the crit severity and crit chance on a new toon are now easily and with little effort much higher than what would - a few years ago - have been considered very high on veteran toons with tons of investments having gone into them. And that's just those two stats.
One of the borg STF's. By the time my ship has got to the cubes two ships the size of a shuttle has already reached them, wiped all of them out and have went on to the side and has already taken down half of the conduits. By the time ive managed to get a shot off, literally ONE...SHOT...OFF these little Attack Pattern Credit Card ships have blown everything up.
That was the experience ive had with a Fleet Excelsior running MK12 AP beams with the full assimilated set and it happened several times on my first return to this game 2 weeks ago after a 4 year break. Four of my friends who also decided to come back also experienced this, they stayed for one day, branded the current ST:O "Pay to win gone insane" and quit.
I decided to stick around though and throw some cash at Dil and the exchange to overhaul the current ships i had. The plain fact is though that the massive gap between "normal" damage, and the attack pattern credit card damage is causing people to quit.
I'd be happy to try and help Jon. I had to google elucidate. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that whatever you do for fun is wrong, just that it may not be the best option for the particular advanced TFO map that has been known to go a little quickly for some players tastes. Your own unique sense of canon is always right, until it results in a penalty. At that point the first thing I'd suggest is to use the loadout system, thusly..
By separating your "canon fun" and doing "more damage", both can be preserved. Now it's possible to do normal difficulty TFO's, missions, and events using your canon fun loadout and then switch to something different when on that particular advanced map to avoid penalties. Lots of the uberdeepz players use different loadouts for different maps so why not follow their lead ?
With that out of the way let's explore what to do differently in order to avoid receiving a penalty.
That is it! (well almost) Since the absent penalty is based on doing less than about two percent of a team's damage, being more mobile makes a huge difference as all that's really needed is to get some shots in. The conn officer gives you the ability to reset evasive maneuvers by using EPtE and the deuterium surplus is yet another opportunity at getting where you need to go, quickly, to get more shots in.
Since you've mentioned a few specific things about one of your builds previously I'll add a couple more things to try in order to do more damage..
When on advanced "eat first and then sip your drink"
The Fleet Excelsior is one of my favorite ships.
In addition to the things mentioned above, you may want to try some Competitive reputation engines.
Here's a video link that talks about things players do to get themselves around a map. Starting about 27:10 is some tips specific to Infected Space. Having somebody take the time to go through this step by step is a beautiful thing.
These days it's not always possible to do much in the way of damage without mobility.
I don't always get it right but having a few tools and techniques available really seems to help.
Pay2Win... what? There is nothing to win! Its Pay2HaveNow. There is no win in STO as no one is competing! Its not like in Elite Dangerous or Eve where you put real money in and get a significant advantage. Hell... its possible to get shiny without paying a dime when you got patience and lots of Dilithium. I literally ground out many large bundles including the 10th Anniversary Legendary Bundle! How is it P2W when someone like me can literally grind it out and have access to it?
I can never understand the P2W argument with STO because... win WHAT?
Tricobalts due to the nerfs are the only weapon system you cannot really build a theme around. There is no benefit in running Tricobalts they are worse then every other weapon system in every way. With the exception possibly of 1 single Tricobalt mine.
Why are you only using MK XII's!? It's cheap as chips to upgrade these days, don't turn your nose up at it. Get your stuff upgraded to MK XV as soon as,; use your Dil to buy phoenix upgrades. It doesn't have to be Epic, but even at MK XV the performance gain is considerably greater.
There is zero P2W in STO....absolutely nothing to 'win'. You don't compete against anyone except in Competivitive TFO's and direct PvP. You can't have your stuff destroyed, you can't have your resources stolen, you can't be forced into PvP, you're not having to keep gambling on packs trying to acquire 20 copies of a Boff, or hundreds of copies of a ship to upgrade and so on, and so forth. Saying this game is P2W is a lazy excuse, sorry.
By the logic I've seen people use in this thread who share your viewpoint, it's perfectly acceptable and fine for them to demand the game be altered for everyone across the board to suit their non-dps chasing playstyle because they don't like that people can do damage above a certain threshold as they fell it gives out too many AFK penalties. Yet if someone like myself pushes back and says they need to alter their build and/or tactics to avoid an AFK penalty, suddenly in their book I'm gatekeeping and "not considering my fellow player". In other words it's okay for them to demand my gameplay be altered to suit them, but how dare I use that same kind of logic and demand them change what they're doing.
I am not responsible for your build and your knowledge of the game anymore than you are responsible for mine. If someone who is brand new to the game comes into a TFO with subpar build and/or tactics and they receive an AFK penalty as a result of not being ready for the content, that's not my problem. I am not a mind reader and I have no way of knowing if that person next to me in that TFO has been playing for only a week, or has been playing since closed beta.
Have you ever stopped to think that if someone is consistently getting an AFK penalty that maybe, just maybe they're the problem and not the game or other players? I know it's almost blasphemy to even suggest such a thing. The definition of insanity is doing the exact same thing again and again expecting different results.
If you or anyone else are going to insist that myself or others should "be considerate of other players" and alter my build so as to "give everyone a chance to participate", why can I not demand YOU change YOUR build so you can participate easier? Why should I or anyone else have to alter our playstyle or our builds? When people demand the game be altered for myself and others due to their dislike of "insta vape" and demand that I alter my build to suit them, yet get mad at me for suggesting they be the ones to change THEIR build or tactics so they can participate better, I'm sorry but that's absolute hypocrisy in my book.
If you're going to apply your own logic equally, if folks can demand I change my build, I can demand they change theirs. You don't get to have it both ways.
Your analogy is a loaded question as first and foremost you're assuming that if someone eats more than another person does, it equates to malice. Or in this case, if someone goes into a TFO with a build that's just leagues ahead of another person in damage, they are trying to be malicious to that person. You can make that argument if you want, but you bear the burden of proof to demonstrate maliciousness, and you haven't presented any credible evidence of this.
With that said, let's take the torpedoes out of that analogy of yours and try again. Let's suppose that tomorrow we found out CBS was going to release a new Enterprise F mini-figure to certain stores. Let's suppose a local store has 2 of the figures left and I grab both of those figures with the intent of buying one for myself, and the second for a friend. Let's also suppose that right after I've paid for the figures, another person comes into the store and finds out I just bought the last 2 the store had. This person then offers to buy the second one from me, but I refuse to sell it to them because I am giving the second one to my friend. Tell me, am I wrong for refusing to give that person the second figure? If you believe that I would be wrong in that situation, why would I be wrong? And be specific.
Your food analogy ignores several key factors. The first of which is those people arriving at the same time as each other, and each of the 5 people having the same access to the food. If the first 4 people go ahead and eat while the 5th guy stands around talking to people at the party and the 5th guy misses out on food, that is purely the 5th guy's fault as he deliberately chose not to eat while the food was still available.
I'll give another example using my previous mini-figure example. Let's suppose that this local shop gets 50 of them in stock. Instead of going early when the shop still has it's full stock, the guy waits until right when the shop is about to close and he misses out on those last 2 figures because I got there first, who is at fault, me for buying both, or him for waiting too late?
We can debate what's intentional and what isn't but so long as beating a map in 30 seconds or less doesn't violate terms of service, it's ultimately irrelevant. If you or someone else goes into a run with a ship that moves at the speed of smell, and get a team of people in much faster ships that kill everything before that person in the slower ship can even get there, how is it the fault of the people with the faster ships that the 5th guy deliberately chose a much slower ship?
What you're failing to realize is that again, all players who meet the minimum standards set forth by the game itself for a TFO have a right to be in there, dps chaser and non-dps chaser alike. If the non-chasers are going into an area they are likely to encounter dps chasers, they bear the responsibility for planning accordingly. If the non-chaser doesn't plan accordingly and gets an AFK penalty as a result, it's like knowing it might rain but refusing to pack an umbrella then getting mad at the weather guy you get wet.
When it comes to an AFK penalty, to even get one you need to have done less than 1%-2% of the damage for the entirety of the run. Take ISA for example. The last time I went into an ISA the team did a total of around 45m damage over the totality of the run which was around 73 seconds. I don't know what the actual total amount of health is for everything in that TFO, but let's say for argument sake it's 45m. In order for a person to avoid the AFK penalty, this means they would need to deal 450k damage over the totality of the run, which is 1% of 45m. Assuming this person was in the 73 second run with me and the others I was with, this person would've needed to do 6200 DPS. If we assume a slower run of 2 minutes and 30 seconds, which used to be the average for ISA way back when, this lowers the total DPS required to 3k. The longer the run, the lower the overall damage output required.
A basic cohesive ship using only the free mk xii very rare gear you get from missions can get there in around 2 firing cycles using 7 beams and a torpedo while under the effects of Emergency Power to Weapons, Attack Pattern Beta, FAW, and Torpedo Spread. Anything else is gravy. I don't see what's so unreasonable about expecting your teammates to at least 1% of the damage.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
Please stop this hostile interrogation of everyone, and everything that is being said. This is not suitable behavior for a Community Moderator. Green tag or not, please behave yourself.
I'm struggling to see where your relentless disagreement with every opinion fits into this discussion. You are way off the mark, have missed the point entirely, and still don't seem to understand the subject matter of the Original Post.
If you do not like this conversation or the subject matter, then i respectfully suggest that you consider finding a conversation that you do like, and engage with that instead.
Frankly, i'm shocked that this level of hostile aggression is allowed to run unchecked on the "Official Star Trek Online Forum."
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Please go ahead and close this thread, it is far beyond redemption at this point.
Sorry for the trouble.
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