Terran Weakness

paradox

While on the topic of Terrans, their Empire has one fatal flaw, I noticed that their empire almost collapsed multiple times due to a lack of a R&D department, They would have collapsed in the 22nd century if it wasn't for the USS Defiant, sure Terrans are conquerors but their technology is stagnate, in Mirror, Mirror, Prime Kirk and Mirror Spock have a conversation about the Terran Empire collapsing later do the line which caused Spock to start his reforms which weaken the empire to be conquered the Klingon-Cardassian alliance, however Spock made sure Non-Terrans were treated better so that it would not be destroyed from within by rebellions, like I mentioned before their technology is stagnate, I mean the Terran Rebellion had to steal Defiant Blueprints just to retake their empire, they didn't have a ship like that in their universe, the whole reason their Empire still exists is because of Federation Innovations.

rattler2

Yea... despite the fact the Empire would love nothing more than to conquer/destroy the Federation... they owe their very existence to the Federation.

davefenestrator

It's hard to lead a research project when all of your staff are ready to stick a knife in your back and take over. After which someone sticks a knife in their back. Until there's one good knifer left, but no good scientists.

spiritborn

Yeah the Terran Empire is in many ways the personification of "stupid evil", it's not that they lack an R&D department but rather it's focused on inventing things for petty evil acts like the agony booth rather then focusing in making the empire strong.

The Terran Empire are a like a contestant stopping to cheat (poorly) even though their victory is assured thru legitimate means just because the idea of winning fairly is anathema to them. Their petty evil acts costing them more then they could possibly gain from doing those acts.

rattler2

I think the only time we saw the Terran Empire as a legit threat and not the moustache twisting evil we saw in TOS... is in Discovery. They felt legit evil.

davefenestrator

rattler2 wrote: »

I think the only time we saw the Terran Empire as a legit threat and not the moustache twisting evil we saw in TOS... is in Discovery. They felt legit evil.

The writing for Lorca was some of the best that we got for season 1. Michelle Yeoh is great and did well with what she was given, but the writing for her in S1 was more the expected Empress of Eeeevil with a soft spot for her adopted daughter and mirror twin.

lianthelia

spiritborn wrote: »

Yeah the Terran Empire is in many ways the personification of "stupid evil", it's not that they lack an R&D department but rather it's focused on inventing things for petty evil acts like the agony booth rather then focusing in making the empire strong.

The Terran Empire are a like a contestant stopping to cheat (poorly) even though their victory is assured thru legitimate means just because the idea of winning fairly is anathema to them. Their petty evil acts costing them more then they could possibly gain from doing those acts.

I think dave puts it well...safe to imagine even the scientists would stab each other in the back to claim a project to gain favor within the Empire and from the Emperor.

Perhaps the Emperor have favored scientists? Hard for smart minds to get noticed and if you try to get noticed you'd have a opportunistic backstabber ready to take credit for your work. Which leads to a cycle of collapse...bright minds killed while thieves prosper, but those thieves don't come up with other innovations on their own...

legendarylycan

And even the favored scientists aren't safe - look at what happened to mirror Stamets; he delivered a method of power generation that was well beyond almost anything any civilization past, present or future (so far) could match, and his reward was to be slaughtered by Emperor Georgiou - though I think he was part of Lorca's rebellion, so that may be why.​​

phoenixc

It wasn't Spock's reforms as such that weakened the empire, it was the civil cold war it kicked off fragmenting and polarizing it to the point that it was not quick and unified enough to respond to external attacks effectively. It is exactly the kind of thing intelligence black ops agencies use to topple governments, a sneaky divide and conquer from the inside hollowing the nation out so it topples like a house of cards at the slightest external push.

jonsills

legendarylycan#5411 wrote: »

And even the favored scientists aren't safe - look at what happened to mirror Stamets; he delivered a method of power generation that was well beyond almost anything any civilization past, present or future (so far) could match, and his reward was to be slaughtered by Emperor Georgiou - though I think he was part of Lorca's rebellion, so that may be why.​​

Mirror Kirk, according to his concubine's speech, stole the Tantalus device and had its inventor killed so nobody else could have one. It's hard to get good R&D going under circumstances like those.

saurializard

rattler2 wrote: »

I think the only time we saw the Terran Empire as a legit threat and not the moustache twisting evil we saw in TOS... is in Discovery. They felt legit evil.

And then, in a matter of hours, the near-entire leadership got its head (literally) cut off by the Emperor who then got lost in an alternate universe, after killing the leader of the main (even more evil) resistance cell who killed one of the most important scientists of his time and the Empire's biggest ship got blown up to pieces (and judging by the size of the explosion probably damaged a good chunk of space, making the Omega particles look like cherry bombs), taking thousands of likely high-ranked officers.

And since only the Emperor had access to the most dangerous and classified stuff, like the USS Defiant and its improvements, that's even more knowledge lost.

Evil, but inefficient when someone throws a tiny wrench in the cogs.

All because of a small science vessel that could adapt faster and unresolved daughter issues.