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The Good Old Bvat Arc
duddutcher
Member Posts: 68 Arc User
I have been playing this game now for years but the federation arcs are a bit dull compared with the klingon who get to kick some demons or romulans who get to face of against a very angry one eyed tal shiar agend.
formerly the bvat arc let me feel like i was actualy fighting off very angry klingon with a mission to keep war going on with the feds at al cost. what i also loved aboud it is that it kinda did stand alone from the main arc and that the so called real threat was jet to come ( the iconians)
i was curios if there where any other who felt the same or have totaly different idea's
if the develepers would ever happen to put it back it would ( atliest for me) be a great enrichment to the game
for all people serving the grammer police my appologies in advance
formerly the bvat arc let me feel like i was actualy fighting off very angry klingon with a mission to keep war going on with the feds at al cost. what i also loved aboud it is that it kinda did stand alone from the main arc and that the so called real threat was jet to come ( the iconians)
i was curios if there where any other who felt the same or have totaly different idea's
if the develepers would ever happen to put it back it would ( atliest for me) be a great enrichment to the game
for all people serving the grammer police my appologies in advance
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Please stop telling everyone they're "poor", or "bad". Seriously, we get it, you don't like the old levels. Clearly lots of us think otherwise, enough so we miss them and have wanted them back since they were unnecessarily removed an embarrassingly long time ago.
Fair enough. But you've got to qualify why you think they were bad, because just saying 'they were bad' means literally nothing, other than you throwing your subjective opinion around like it's objective fact.
Personally, I think the new Klingon Civil War episodes 'are bad', and in comparison think the old removed ones are great.
Alas, not!
Thanks. And I do want it known, I agree they needed a serious revamp for many of those reasons.
However, I disagree completely with the decision to remove them outright. The exact same reasons applied to the Klingon Faction missions that got revamped during YoK, yet none of them were removed until the revamp was complete.
This always caught my ear because it seems at variance with Klingon culture as established in TNG and later shows, and in the game - Klingon warriors do not deliberately target non-warriors, as fighting "shopkeepers" is beneath them. I always hoped that in the end, when we finally got to kill B'Vat, his body would shimmer and turn back into an Undine...
aut vincere aut mori pro imperio
either to conquer or to die for the Empire
Or maybe they add unique dialog for TOS Captains, especially dealing with Captain B'Vat who was from the 23rd Century.
Not possible because it would basically undo ALL story missions after that.
What sticks in my mind though, is the duality of B'Vat that kinda makes it sound like he may have gotten extremely bitter and maybe even extremist in his old age. Captain B'Vat actually recognized that Ambassador B'Vat is his future, and wonders what would cause him to fall into such dishonor. If Ambassador B'Vat was an Undine, it doesn't exactly explain where the Planet Killer came from that he had control of, as the Undine kinda don't need it, or why B'Vat would not only take Miral Paris prisoner but take her back in time in an attempt to destroy the Federation in the past. The Undine have shown no interest in time travel. And honestly... following on the heels of exposing another Undine Infiltrator posing as a Vulcan Ambassador... eh... would feel a bit too much like overusing a plot line.
Honestly I'd like to know more about what made B'Vat go down that path, and where the Planet Killer was found.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Sometimes, less is more. The grander STO gets, the more my character is shoved to the side, and the more exhausting it is just to get through a single mission.
Something else I preferred about the older missions was the amount of enemies. I wasn't actually keeping count and this is just based on how I remember it feeling, but in older episodes it felt like I was fighting a couple dozen enemies whereas in more recent episodes it feels like hundreds. It's obviously subjective, but I prefer the former to the latter.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I believe you're right. From what I can recall, the point where it really started to get out of hand was when the Hur'q were introduced. Now, that was--kind of--justified, since they were explicitly "swarming" (though it still drove me nuts, if only because my bigger ships tended get warp core breached to death). But Cryptic seemingly forgot the specifics of the enemy, and just kept up with swarming tactics even from enemies were it didn't make sense.
It's honestly exhausting, and just feels like needless padding.
The one remade into Mars bringer of war (I think that's the title) was awful compared to the original. I loved flying around the old shipyards and fighting groups of defenders and attack shuttles. It felt like an epic attack....now, it's a number of widely spaced out frames with ships. You fly in a circle around them killing them off with no opposition. It's a shame to see such a good mission neutered that way.
Between that and being a sidekick to the current va star...well it's just not the same.
It would probably gift wrapped by Envoy.
I agree neutering the Klingons was awful, torture is a major part of their culture, regardless if it inflicted upon their prisoners or onto themselves, they're major masochists and pretty sure they torture people they throw into Rura Penthe, now they're like the feds, either you die with honor or get thrown into Rura Penthe.
Yep.
Anyhow, I miss the older mars mission. Felt more like an actual raid, and the results felt more like a crippling result for Starfleet. *shrugs*
I'll believe that when I see it. And I disagree that the old Klingon War missions were "poor."
B'vat are you talking about?
I mean, their rites never involve torturing anyone, especially not with painsticks, and they sure don't cut themselves or others with knives for almost anything. Klingons really don't like to induce/endure pain and would never hurt anyone, right.
Trial by ordeal as rites of passage and torture are very different. I don't think Klingons are especially effective torturers because they are simply too brutal and are equally miserable jailers because the idea of being prisoners themselves is so terrible. If Klingons have any predisposition toward violence against prisoners it is because of their perception of what being a prisoner means to them.
Does 'choose your pain' ring a bell?
Sure, that didn't seem to be a thing in canon prior to DIS, but on the other hand, aside from Rura Penthe, we never really got to witness the internal workings of a klingon prison. That klingons wouldn't make prisoners like Kirk stated in TwoK is simply wrong, and whatever kind of jailers they are, I don't think they're the gentle and hospitable kind.
I would say just being on Rura Penthe might be considered torture by most species, given the extreme environment.
Yeah, DIS definitely established Klingon torture. And not as some rare/one-off thing, but something that was apparently well known, because when Tyler claims he had been a prisoner and tortured Lorca said 'no one survives Klingon torture for 7 months'. So, anyway, yeah.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Running a gauntlet is a ritual and ordeal. Your peers/brothers in arms man the proverbial gates both adminstering and bearing witness to your trial. The physicality of it and enduring it makes you worthy of joining their ranks and standing with them. It's brutal but it is more of a welcome than a punishment. A pain booth is demonstrative. If there is an audience it's to make them afraid and not want to be alone and in that booth themselves. There's more at work here than sticks and booths.