test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
My Primary concern with Ships in Star Trek
navar
Member Posts: 198 Arc User
As time goes on, ships have gotten larger and larger and larger.... there seems to be no end to it. Older ships get refit to update appearances and stats, but they remain the same size. For me, this tends to leave iconic ships inadequate when sitting next to some of the newer ships.
For an example, the D7 Klingon ship. At one time that ship was just awe inspiring, a giant among mortals. Now, when sitting in space, it seems every ship that comes within range dwarfs the D7 in comparison which leaves you feeling like you are sitting in a shuttle instead of a giant warship. The same can be said for the ship shown in my avatar, the Star Cruiser. When that ship first came out, you would be hard pressed to find another ship that size, it was a massive starship. Now, I feel small on a grander scale when parked outside Earth Space Dock.
I think what we are seeing with the ships in this game is that they just keep getting larger and larger as time goes on, this is a good comparison to power creep in games as they relate to ship size. Your favorite ships no longer have that feeling of being massive, even though they are massive, because they feel like micro-machines trying to compete with Tonka Toys.
Just my opinion from my perspective.
For an example, the D7 Klingon ship. At one time that ship was just awe inspiring, a giant among mortals. Now, when sitting in space, it seems every ship that comes within range dwarfs the D7 in comparison which leaves you feeling like you are sitting in a shuttle instead of a giant warship. The same can be said for the ship shown in my avatar, the Star Cruiser. When that ship first came out, you would be hard pressed to find another ship that size, it was a massive starship. Now, I feel small on a grander scale when parked outside Earth Space Dock.
I think what we are seeing with the ships in this game is that they just keep getting larger and larger as time goes on, this is a good comparison to power creep in games as they relate to ship size. Your favorite ships no longer have that feeling of being massive, even though they are massive, because they feel like micro-machines trying to compete with Tonka Toys.
Just my opinion from my perspective.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
These ships are supposed to be massive. If anything, they are way too small.
Why would they need to be bigger? The TOS Enterprise sometimes looked tiny even compared to some of bigger ships in the game before the Kelvin and DSC size inflation but it was the size of a realworld aircraft carrier with only a little over four hundred people rattling around in it. And in the original concept for TNG the saucer WAS essentially a small city of four to five thousand inhabitants with the cobra-headed secondary hull as its protector.
It is a case of something like the Ant Man movies, from his point of view he does not shrink, everything else just gets bigger. When you are in a ship other ships look bigger or smaller in comparison to yours and the same "other" ship can look massive or tiny depending on what you are flying.
Scaling up the older ships would not do anything except put them out of scale with their show equivalents, it is the idiotic "bigger is better" idea that Kurtzman's bunch have that causes the problem.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Although a longer ship, the Ent E is in line with the Ent D. I guess they believed that ships shouldn't be much larger than the Ent D since that ship was already just completely massive. Unless a ship is going to carry families, there really is no need for a ship to be so massive. But look out, here comes JJ Binks....
Kelvin sizes were the result of originally going with a smaller model, but realizing it wouldn't fit the large, multi-deck shuttlebay they wanted and some other details, so they just upscaled it, resulting in the slightly weird window scaling.
Granted, like cars of today vs the cars of yesteryear, Trek ships have gotten larger over time, as more features are crammed into each one and the scaling goes up. Nowadays, the Fed ships have shifted from a mostly benign, peaceful design to ones armed to the teeth, some with advanced and experimental tech, while still able to perform their peaceful exploration, while KDF ships have shifted to an increasingly militaristic design. The Romulans, well, their ships have mostly stayed consistent with the bird motif.
The funny thing is... literally everything BUT that one shuttlebay scene says smaller ship. Ignoring the shuttlebay scene, the Kelvin Connie actually measures about 366 Meters. While bigger than the accepted 295 of the TOS and 305 of the Refit, its still reasonable. Not only that, the shuttlebay scene is immediately countered when Pike leaves the Enterprise... IN THE SAME CLASS OF SHUTTLE that was coming in two at a time... AND BARELY FITTING THROUGH COMING OUT ON ITS OWN!
Star Trek is no stranger to the magic size changing starship. Two main offenders is Voyager and Defiant. Voyager, or more specifically the Delta Flyer, is a major culprit because inside the shuttlebay seems pretty big. But then when the Delta Flyer comes out... she's a bit bigger than expected. And Defiant tends to change size compared to DS9 when she flies through the pylons.
The most well known though is probably the Klingon BoP, with the B'Rel and the much larger K'vort.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
> That remains to be seen. The ship classes we've seen to-date were certainly of a size that enabled them to dock at Starfleet command. The Veridian seems to be the largest 32nd century ship we've seen so far and that was, obviously, not a Starfleet ship.
The Galaxy the burn took place in... was actually the Enterprise N
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I always get a laugh in TFO’s when the Gemini is so small compared to other ships. Especially Discovery ships which are supposed to be a decade or two earlier in operational service.
Also K-13 is rather small in size too. Many ships dwarf it, even though it is a space station.
No matter. If people really want MASSIVE ships, that is fine with me. I am very happy patrolling along in tiny Gemini. I guess you can call it by that old naval term a “pocket battleship” in the tradition of the great Graf Spee.
You have a point. It's just hilarious that younger viewers blame JJ Trek for scaling issues, when it's long been a thing across the original/Prime Timeline series. I believe the Scimitar is also weirdly scaled (considering its size proportional to the Sovereign in the respective movie), along with a few other ships due to reuse of some old models that weren't to scale with each other.
What I - therefore - do find annoying is that some ships look totally different compared to others when flying them. When zooming in on a Sovereign, for example, you can clearly see a lot of details and still see the stuff around you clearly too. Which works less wel with, say, a Defiant or a Vesta.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Two things. The Universe Class was not part of the Ent D and E erra. That was designed long after those went off the air. I wasn't a big fan of that either. Mainly though, that ship comes from a far far distant future, so then there is that.
I am far from young. You may disagree but my opinion stands and I am not the only person with this opinion. For clarity, I am 46 years old and counting.
The justifications I am seeing here just don't make any sense at all to me. With Enterprise D, which was one of the largest ships until they came out with the Enterprise J (For the record, I didn't like that hideous thing either and thought the size and design of that thing was just goofy) which was just grotesque.
With the Enterprise D, it made sense because that ship not only complimented the crew, but their families as well. The size of that ship was justified and made complete sense. From the beginning, ships of Star Trek gradually got larger a wee bit at a time...they did not suddenly explode in to unrealistic sizes out of the blue with no explanation like they did with Enterprise J and that God awful thing in the JJ Binks movies. We are talking about the times of the Enterprise 1701, and suddenly we have a ship that literally dwarfs the Enterprise D and it wasn't even holding families? What was that ships compliment, 20 or less?
At least with Voyager, they scaled back down the size of the ship to a reasonable size since it was not designed to carry people's families. It made sense. Once Enterprise came out and they introduced the Enterprise J, it got completely silly from there. That is my logic and my reasoning behind my dislike of these ridiculously large ships. Has nothing to do with age.
Now, everyone is entitled to their opinions and I won't be bashing anyone for their opinions. I would appreciate if everyone would do the same instead of attacking my age.
Maybe it has a very large number of crew.
Maybe it needed to be able to build entire starbases or outposts (in space, so that it could be easily left behind while being strategically located, as opposed to planets) in defence against the Sphere Builders and their expanse.
Maybe it was build to be able to quickly evacuate entire planets as the Delphic expanse ... expanded.
Maybe Starfleet realised that it was losing far too many ships unnecessarily so it decided to build bigger ones.
Maybe the Universe class replaced entire war fleets - have a few very tough ships that can in most cases even win a battle by avoiding it - so that more of the smaller ships could be spared to defend outposts, planets and so on (both in STO as well as in the series, it happens quite often that an installation is entirely defenceless after all...)
You can't really say that the Ent J is 'too' big if you don't know what it was built for. We literally don't know anything about its purpose, mission or crew complement. We also know very little about the time in which it was - or even during what time exactly it was - active. Klingons were part of the Federation, the Delphic expanse threatened the Federation. That's it. Who knows what other things happened that resulted in SF building the Universe class.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I also try to keep in mind that the Enterprise J as we saw it, no longer exists in the timeline we seen it. It could very well look much different than it did in that timeline.
God, I am so glad there is at least one other person that realizes how ridiculous and stupid the Enterprise D was. It's dimensions and staffing made absolutely no sense for it's role.
But you're right, these problems and inconsistencies are commonplace in absolutely all Trek old and new.
Many people feel that after Voyager, the Star Treks that came out after that felt...off from all the others before them. There is a reason for it, I don't think it is just in peoples heads. The ship designs are equally frowned upon. It's an endless debate that has no end, you either like the new Star Trek (if they really must call it that) or you hate it. There seems to be very few people who are indifferent. Ship design not withstanding.
Now, even factoring in that a decent portion of space on a Galaxy will be taken up by the weapons and shuttlebays, both things cruise ships don't have, a Galaxy should STILL be able to host a far larger crew and passenger capacity than official stats list because it's twice the size of the aforementioned cruise ship.
Also...the quarters could also be bigger than we've seen - Scotty was impressed by the quarters he was given? He would've been even more impressed by how big they COULD have been.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
you know you can zoom out, right? The ship sizes are fine as they are. They're not even to scale, if they were they'd all be bigger, not smaller.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Yeah the Oddy is one of largest "modern" Trek ships and it's just around 1 km long, for the GFFA biggest ship is a size of a small moon (aka Death Stars which are actually really large ships not stations and that's ignoring the Starkiller Base) and in Warhammer multi kilometre ships are typical.
EDIT:Largest "normal" ships in GFFA (aka Star Wars) are around the 20 km mark.
Star Trek just isn't good with scaling, that is the one thing they have been consistent about.
That visual scale is completely wrong. Look at the scene in Star Trek Generations where they are standing on top of the saucer section after the crash landing. Looks nothing like this being shown in the video.
But let's say speaking strictly scale; that even further proves my point when they make a ship that only carries 20 people or less, being almost twice the size as the Galaxy Class Starship.
And after the first season of both, they eventually settled in to those. The people who hate the new Star Trek are not settling in to those...and it's been years later.