Actually I disagree, and I have been playing since Beta and I have not seen this suppose plummet - In fact it increased as cap increased.
You can disagree all you want but it doesn't matter. Feel free to dig back through my posts and you'll see me bragging about being right after promo ship prices went down.
Top that off with the meddling of promo and T6 lockbox drop rates to an even lower percentage, this now caused a huge inflation in pricing these premium ships. There is indeed a huge shortage of specific types of promo and T6 lockbox starships. I remember the days the market was flooded with diverse premium ships, now their scarce, to the point where we are now seeing an insane price hike. Many players, I dare to say, are turning to a more darker market, something not advisable.
If there's evidence that drop rates have decreased, I'd like to see it. It seems more likely that the ever increasing number of ships into a single infinity lock box causes decreased supply on a per ship basis due to the larger and larger number of ships to select from.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
EC is stored as signed 32-bit integer which has a maximum value of 2,147,483,647.
So they cannot 'simply' just raise the cap on a whim.
that may have been true when they raised it before, but since then Cryptic has replaced all 32 bit versions with 64 bit versions of the game, so the 32 bit limitations should no longer exist
Actually, 32-bit C++/C# compilers have had built-in 64 bit math support for many years so moving to a 64-bit build wasn't needed. The main thing you gain from a 64-bit build is access to more than 3 GB of RAM for your program.
It's just that the default "int" type for variables is 32-bit so you have to switch to using an int64 type for all reading, math, writing of EC values instead. Also, all the database storage of EC values needs to change from 32 to 64, which does take up an extra 4 bytes per row.
And I know I'm going a little tin foil hat here, but I think the rich also enjoy tanking prices of items that can sell that have little consequence to them
I watched a video on youtube about how someone makes a lot of ec...describes his grind which had little to do with selling stuff on the exchange. He talked about selling doffs on the exchange that he got for free and he massively undercuts people
I've been noticing more and more the areas I used to make extra ec with getting these massive undercuts...see people selling a item for 900k-800k-799k and then a massive drop down to 125k. I'd always wondered why that happened till I saw his video and it makes me wonder if the heavy farmers do that to make quick ec and ruin the market for people who can't farm like them
It's obvious farmers just want the EC cap raised so they can list their promo ships for 2 billion on the exchange which will farther push inflation and their profit, not reduce it
A couple of things, that's not how economics work, and one guy in a youtube video doesn't equate to the entire community. That's one guy that's found a way to make EC. Sometimes people will sell items for massive undercuts because they either don't care and just want to be rid of it, or need EC quickly and don't care that they're leaving a fair chunk of it on the table. For that matter I've done that myself. Everyone in the history of economics has always tried to make people think they are the best deal, which is why they always undercut. People undercutting by minor amounts or massive undercuts is nothing new.
As far as the massive undercuts, answer this for me. Why would a seller massive undercut and destroy the market when it effects their bottom line? Why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that? Could they do that, sure, but then that's less EC for them.
On the point of ships being 2 billion or more. If a ship is going to sell for more than 2b EC, it's going to sell for that price regardless of what the EC limit is. Folks will just ask for keys or similar to make up the difference. Keeping the caps where they are isn't going to do anything but force those transactions off the exchange and into backrooms where you don't know what the market is. If someone quotes you a price, you have no way of knowing they're scamming you or giving you a fair deal since you can't compare it to other listings like you could on the exchange. Let's suppose the caps are kept where they are and the ship you want is going for 2.1b EC. Let's suppose you have a guy quote you a price of 2.5b EC. Unless you already knew before hand what the ship is going for, you've now been taken for a 400m EC ride and scammed big time because you can't see what the market actually looks like. Had the exchange limit been raised to 3 billion EC as just one example, you would know that dude is trying to rip you off as you could compare to what the exchange is going for. Or better yet, you never would've had to deal with that guy to start with.
Arguing the caps should stay where they are yet complaining about prices above the caps is like turning off your living room lights, then complaining you stubbed your toe in the dark.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
suggestion, for a guaranteed promo! ship 9mili dilit ,lockbox 5.5 mili dilit ,set of 6x crtd lockbox weapons 3.5 mili ,non tradable.
the amount of dill. can differ just saying in order to make the lives of Voldemort's difficult, provide those ships in other ways than just gamble or ec
suggestion, for a guaranteed promo! ship 9mili dilit ,lockbox 5.5 mili dilit ,set of 6x crtd lockbox weapons 3.5 mili ,non tradable.
the amount of dill. can differ just saying in order to make the lives of Voldemort's difficult, provide those ships in other ways than just gamble or ec
Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
> @davefenestrator said: > Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free. > > You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
Well sometime it is better to get constant income then to lose much cz of greed.
> @davefenestrator said:
> Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
>
> You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
Well sometime it is better to get constant income then to lose much cz of greed.
Simply because something goes for more than you like doesn't automatically make it greed.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
> @davefenestrator said:
> Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
>
> You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
Well sometime it is better to get constant income then to lose much cz of greed.
Simply because something goes for more than you like doesn't automatically make it greed.
It is not about like or disslike. It is about geting more players toward the game, and overprice or only forcing to put more and more cash policy can make things worse. That was my comment aim.
> @davefenestrator said:
> Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
>
> You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
Well sometime it is better to get constant income then to lose much cz of greed.
Simply because something goes for more than you like doesn't automatically make it greed.
I've been playing this game on and off for 10 years. I remember keys costing 1.2m/1.4m and lockbox ships selling for under 100m. Also at this time you could grind out anywhere from 300k to 1m a day pretty easily and Im not counting converting dil to zen. I have made more then one post about inflation in game and how it hurts the game. There are so many points made about how much EC comes into the game and so few ways it leaves. I remember making my fortune 1m at a time by flipping ships. It took me almost a year to go from plucking a D'kora, selling it for 75m, then getting lucky and plucking a Bug ship, selling that for 500m and then using that money to amass a fortune to over a billion. Now Im flipping ships and making tens of millions on each. Now if you were to try to grind a billion EC it would take forever. EC does come easy but inflation is outpacing it by alot.
We really need a MASSIVE EC sink. There is just way too much sitting around. Next fleet holding needs to have an insane amount of EC required. I mean instead of 900k or so per project it should be like 10 million each. Dil needs to be devalued as well. Those sinks need to be increased 3 fold. Another good idea is to increase the amount of stuff in phoenix packs that's worthwhile. Also please stop rewarding EC in the endeavor and admiralty missions. Runaway inflation is one of the reasons I have been playing less.
While I wouldn't mind a use for GPL... we have to consider that the Federation itself doesn't really have a currency.
IMO they should swap the currency of the Dilithium Store over to GPL, and throw in more cosmetics into that. Give us SOMETHING to do with these mountains of GPL. As it is... I'm building the Great Wall of China with mine... because I got nothing to do with it other than maybe play Dabo.
The Federation has (and always had) a currency - Federation Credits. Been that way since TOS, mentioned many a time. They may not be worth anything outside the Federation but they are a currency.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
We really need a MASSIVE EC sink. There is just way too much sitting around. Next fleet holding needs to have an insane amount of EC required. I mean instead of 900k or so per project it should be like 10 million each.
Out of curiosity. Would you mind handing out a screenshot of the over all fleet holding contributions you made so far? Also, any details about the amount of doff and & consumable donations would be most appreciated. This would give much better idea how serous you are with your proposal.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Out of curiosity. Would you mind handing out a screenshot of the over all fleet holding contributions you made so far? Also, any details about the amount of doff and & consumable donations would be most appreciated. This would give much better idea how serous you are with your proposal.
We should just be thankful that the decisions for the direction of the game aren't made by people like that. It's easy to just sit back and say the 'fix' is for wealthy players to deplete their resources so you can leech everything for free. It's also sadly typical.
Out of curiosity. Would you mind handing out a screenshot of the over all fleet holding contributions you made so far? Also, any details about the amount of doff and & consumable donations would be most appreciated. This would give much better idea how serous you are with your proposal.
We should just be thankful that the decisions for the direction of the game aren't made by people like that. It's easy to just sit back and say the 'fix' is for wealthy players to deplete their resources so you can leech everything for free. It's also sadly typical.
Pretty much yea.
Problem is really that I have a hard time to come up with ideas here myself that would address everybody.
What should be noted is that the whole inflation thingy is an exclusive problem for free to play peeps. For RL money spenders not so much. They get more DIL for their bucks and EC value keeps steady via the keys one can buy.
Root of the problem seems to be the Admiralty system. They introduced it to compensate the horrendous demands increases after Delta Rising. Works fine and was/is fair but perhaps it grew too over rewarding by now. Or what’s worse yet, most probably don’t use it to cover the extreme costs for strict character progression (to epic out builds and stuff e.g.) but rather to power generate resources to get ZEN and EC for the exchange.
In any case if they want to fight inflation i suspect that’s the trigger to be pulled as it will at least hurt/help pretty much everybody in game more or less equally.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Out of curiosity. Would you mind handing out a screenshot of the over all fleet holding contributions you made so far? Also, any details about the amount of doff and & consumable donations would be most appreciated. This would give much better idea how serous you are with your proposal.
We should just be thankful that the decisions for the direction of the game aren't made by people like that. It's easy to just sit back and say the 'fix' is for wealthy players to deplete their resources so you can leech everything for free. It's also sadly typical.
Pretty much yea.
Problem is really that I have a hard time to come up with ideas here myself that would address everybody.
What should be noted is that the whole inflation thingy is an exclusive problem for free to play peeps. For RL money spenders not so much. They get more DIL for their bucks and EC value keeps steady via the keys one can buy.
Root of the problem seems to be the Admiralty system. They introduced it to compensate the horrendous demands increases after Delta Rising. Works fine and was/is fair but perhaps it grew too over rewarding by now. Or what’s worse yet, most probably don’t use it to cover the extreme costs for strict character progression (to epic out builds and stuff e.g.) but rather to power generate resources to get ZEN and EC for the exchange.
In any case if they want to fight inflation i suspect that’s the trigger to be pulled as it will at least hurt/help pretty much everybody in game more or less equally.
I keep saying this, but nobody want to hear it, but the fix is to tax the exchange. You want to continually pull EC out circulation...this is it. You want to have it be progressive so it doesn't hurt the newer/casual players as much as the more established ones...this is it. Val likes to keep pointing out that sellers will just increase the prices...like he assumes that the buyers will just pay the increases. And even if they do, over time, this will keep inflation down...or eliminate it all together. Depending on how aggressive it is, it can even cause deflation...but that level taxation is not likely to well received. Also if you tax the seller at LISTING the item, they get too greedy and post things for above what they are worth and they will start to just burn EC. It will also stop players from using the exchange as extra storage as well.
I could live with that yep.
It’s the exchange where the inflation surfaces the most and also the top place where it could be fought with everybody involved bringing a fair sacrifice. Price increases as a result would not frighten me as it remains an open marked where the balance of demand and availability have a habit of straighten things out.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Out of curiosity. Would you mind handing out a screenshot of the over all fleet holding contributions you made so far? Also, any details about the amount of doff and & consumable donations would be most appreciated. This would give much better idea how serous you are with your proposal.
We should just be thankful that the decisions for the direction of the game aren't made by people like that. It's easy to just sit back and say the 'fix' is for wealthy players to deplete their resources so you can leech everything for free. It's also sadly typical.
Pretty much yea.
Problem is really that I have a hard time to come up with ideas here myself that would address everybody.
What should be noted is that the whole inflation thingy is an exclusive problem for free to play peeps. For RL money spenders not so much. They get more DIL for their bucks and EC value keeps steady via the keys one can buy.
Root of the problem seems to be the Admiralty system. They introduced it to compensate the horrendous demands increases after Delta Rising. Works fine and was/is fair but perhaps it grew too over rewarding by now. Or what’s worse yet, most probably don’t use it to cover the extreme costs for strict character progression (to epic out builds and stuff e.g.) but rather to power generate resources to get ZEN and EC for the exchange.
In any case if they want to fight inflation i suspect that’s the trigger to be pulled as it will at least hurt/help pretty much everybody in game more or less equally.
I keep saying this, but nobody want to hear it, but the fix is to tax the exchange. You want to continually pull EC out circulation...this is it. You want to have it be progressive so it doesn't hurt the newer/casual players as much as the more established ones...this is it. Val likes to keep pointing out that sellers will just increase the prices...like he assumes that the buyers will just pay the increases. And even if they do, over time, this will keep inflation down...or eliminate it all together. Depending on how aggressive it is, it can even cause deflation...but that level taxation is not likely to well received. Also if you tax the seller at LISTING the item, they get too greedy and post things for above what they are worth and they will start to just burn EC. It will also stop players from using the exchange as extra storage as well.
Yeah, I also would have issues attempting to think of solutions that would address everybody.
Though, I suspect a potential idea is hitting the issue from multiple sides, multiple times. Address EC generation (reduce it) and create multiple EC sinks (new ones, though i blank on what those could be). Though, whatever sink that could be created would need to be long term if not permanent (sort of like Colds idea).
Sadly however, I believe that whatever solution you come up with. Casual to non hardcore players would still take a large portion of the negative effects. As i am sure several of you here (myself included) we have such large reserves of EC, we can shake off any new sink for a long period of time, even if EC generation takes a hit.
I think this would need to be a multi-year thing. Where the EC the community as a whole has is reduced over a 2 - 3 year period for example.
> @davefenestrator said:
> Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
>
> You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
Well sometime it is better to get constant income then to lose much cz of greed.
Simply because something goes for more than you like doesn't automatically make it greed.
I've been playing this game on and off for 10 years. I remember keys costing 1.2m/1.4m and lockbox ships selling for under 100m. Also at this time you could grind out anywhere from 300k to 1m a day pretty easily and Im not counting converting dil to zen.
These numbers that you're referring to are meaningless monopoly numbers. These days, farmers can easily grind out millions of EC per day. Over 10 million EC per day is nothing when you now have admiralty and endeavors to go along with vendor trash. Even with the price cut to vendor trash years ago, you can EASILY get way more drops today than you could in the past using the patrol system.
Basically, your numbers don't matter. The amount of time spent is what matters and that hasn't changed much at all.
Now, I do agree that we could use some EC sinks, and I've been thinking about this today. We're all looking for that "magic bullet" that will be the one thing that creates a solid EC sink but, once again, I realized that we would need a multi-angled approach to this. We need several small EC sinks in addition to ideas for some larger sinks. Here's a couple of ideas big and small.
Across the board EC Nerf: I've already mentioned this but I just want to quickly cover it again. The best way to quickly counteract inflation is to stop it at the point of origin. A flat nerf to EC creation across the board would go a long way to helping. I'd nerf everything. Vendor trash (33%), duty officer rewards (negligible), admiralty rewards (50%-75% Cut, This is the BIG one), endeavor rewards (33%-50% Cut). Everything takes a cut. Also cut Tour the Galaxy down by 33%-50% or consider the possibility of making TTG a once per account per day thing.
Re-Engineering: Re-Engineering sort of acts as an EC sink already. It drains the system of vendor trash that would otherwise be used to create new EC out of thin air. However, I don't think this has enough of an effect. I would support adding a small amount of EC cost to re-engineering. Let's say 8,000 EC for the first mod. 6,400 for the second mod. 4,800 for the third mod. And finally 3,200 for the fourth mod. To roll all 4 mods at once would cost 22,400 EC. Slightly less than the cost of buying a Mk XII space weapon at uncommon quality. A bargain if you ask me.
Add EC costs for All Fleet Gear: Unless I'm mistaken, most fleet gear has no EC cost. Let's add EC to the cost of everything from Locator consoles to bridge officers all the way up to fleet ships. Take the current dilithium cost for the item and multiply it by 10x (keeping the dil cost in place as well). That will give you the EC cost. So for Locators, the EC cost would be 85,000 EC not including the Armada discount. For embassy boffs, the EC cost would be 200,000 EC not including the armada discount. Fleet ships are harder to judge, but I'd say at least 500,000 EC per T6 Fleet ship would be a good start.
Reputation System: Double the EC cost of everything across the board. Projects, gear. All of it.
EDIT: Made an adjustment based on post from petetconnorfirst who made a great point.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
> @davefenestrator said:
> Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
>
> You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
Well sometime it is better to get constant income then to lose much cz of greed.
Simply because something goes for more than you like doesn't automatically make it greed.
I've been playing this game on and off for 10 years. I remember keys costing 1.2m/1.4m and lockbox ships selling for under 100m. Also at this time you could grind out anywhere from 300k to 1m a day pretty easily and Im not counting converting dil to zen.
These numbers that you're referring to are meaningless monopoly numbers. These days, farmers can easily grind out millions of EC per day. Over 10 million EC per day is nothing when you now have admiralty and endeavors to go along with vendor trash. Even with the price cut to vendor trash years ago, you can EASILY get way more drops today than you could in the past using the patrol system.
Basically, your numbers don't matter. The amount of time spent is what matters and that hasn't changed much at all.
Now, I do agree that we could use some EC sinks, and I've been thinking about this today. We're all looking for that "magic bullet" that will be the one thing that creates a solid EC sink but, once again, I realized that we would need a multi-angled approach to this. We need several small EC sinks in addition to ideas for some larger sinks. Here's a couple of ideas big and small.
Across the board EC Nerf: I've already mentioned this but I just want to quickly cover it again. The best way to quickly counteract inflation is to stop it at the point of origin. A flat nerf to EC creation across the board would go a long way to helping. I'd nerf everything. Vendor trash (33%), duty officer rewards (negligible), admiralty rewards (50%-75% Cut, This is the BIG one), endeavor rewards (33%-50% Cut). Everything takes a cut. Also cut Tour the Galaxy down by 33%-50% or consider the possibility of making TTG a once per account per day thing.
Re-Engineering: Re-Engineering sort of acts as an EC sink already. It drains the system of vendor trash that would otherwise be used to create new EC out of thin air. However, I don't think this has enough of an effect. I would support adding a small amount of EC cost to re-engineering. Let's say 8,000 EC for the first mod. 6,400 for the second mod. 4,800 for the third mod. And finally 3,200 for the fourth mod. To roll all 4 mods at once would cost 22,400 EC. Slightly less than the cost of buying a Mk XII space weapon at uncommon quality. A bargain if you ask me.
Add EC costs for All Fleet Gear: Unless I'm mistaken, most fleet gear has no EC cost. Let's add EC to the cost of everything from Locator consoles to bridge officers all the way up to fleet ships. Take the current dilithium cost for the item and multiply it by 10x (keeping the dil cost in place as well). That will give you the EC cost. So for Locators, the EC cost would be 85,000 EC not including the Armada discount. For embassy boffs, the EC cost would be 200,000 EC not including the armada discount. Fleet ships are harder to judge, but I'd say at least 500,000 EC per T6 Fleet ship would be a good start.
Reputation System: Double the EC cost of everything across the board. Projects, gear. All of it.
EDIT: Made an adjustment based on post from petetconnorfirst who made a great point.
Cut in EC generation will have some small effect sure...but all the sinks you mentioned are basically once and done so they won't work...or won't work in the long term. Which is why you need a consistent sink...like an exchange tax. Because that will continually pull EC out of the economy.
I've come around a bit on the exchange tax as well. It isn't the magic bullet that you think it is though. Cutting EC generation is needed too. It will not merely be a "small" effect. All of the smaller ideas will work as part of a larger plan because they affect new characters that are created. Again, there is no magic bullet that is a be all end all idea.
When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
> @davefenestrator said:
> Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
>
> You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
Well sometime it is better to get constant income then to lose much cz of greed.
Simply because something goes for more than you like doesn't automatically make it greed.
I've been playing this game on and off for 10 years. I remember keys costing 1.2m/1.4m and lockbox ships selling for under 100m. Also at this time you could grind out anywhere from 300k to 1m a day pretty easily and Im not counting converting dil to zen.
These numbers that you're referring to are meaningless monopoly numbers. These days, farmers can easily grind out millions of EC per day. Over 10 million EC per day is nothing when you now have admiralty and endeavors to go along with vendor trash. Even with the price cut to vendor trash years ago, you can EASILY get way more drops today than you could in the past using the patrol system.
Basically, your numbers don't matter. The amount of time spent is what matters and that hasn't changed much at all.
Now, I do agree that we could use some EC sinks, and I've been thinking about this today. We're all looking for that "magic bullet" that will be the one thing that creates a solid EC sink but, once again, I realized that we would need a multi-angled approach to this. We need several small EC sinks in addition to ideas for some larger sinks. Here's a couple of ideas big and small.
Across the board EC Nerf: I've already mentioned this but I just want to quickly cover it again. The best way to quickly counteract inflation is to stop it at the point of origin. A flat nerf to EC creation across the board would go a long way to helping. I'd nerf everything. Vendor trash (33%), duty officer rewards (negligible), admiralty rewards (50%-75% Cut, This is the BIG one), endeavor rewards (33%-50% Cut). Everything takes a cut. Also cut Tour the Galaxy down by 33%-50% or consider the possibility of making TTG a once per account per day thing.
Re-Engineering: Re-Engineering sort of acts as an EC sink already. It drains the system of vendor trash that would otherwise be used to create new EC out of thin air. However, I don't think this has enough of an effect. I would support adding a small amount of EC cost to re-engineering. Let's say 8,000 EC for the first mod. 6,400 for the second mod. 4,800 for the third mod. And finally 3,200 for the fourth mod. To roll all 4 mods at once would cost 22,400 EC. Slightly less than the cost of buying a Mk XII space weapon at uncommon quality. A bargain if you ask me.
Add EC costs for All Fleet Gear: Unless I'm mistaken, most fleet gear has no EC cost. Let's add EC to the cost of everything from Locator consoles to bridge officers all the way up to fleet ships. Take the current dilithium cost for the item and multiply it by 10x (keeping the dil cost in place as well). That will give you the EC cost. So for Locators, the EC cost would be 85,000 EC not including the Armada discount. For embassy boffs, the EC cost would be 200,000 EC not including the armada discount. Fleet ships are harder to judge, but I'd say at least 500,000 EC per T6 Fleet ship would be a good start.
Reputation System: Double the EC cost of everything across the board. Projects, gear. All of it.
EDIT: Made an adjustment based on post from petetconnorfirst who made a great point.
Cut in EC generation will have some small effect sure...but all the sinks you mentioned are basically once and done so they won't work...or won't work in the long term. Which is why you need a consistent sink...like an exchange tax. Because that will continually pull EC out of the economy.
I've come around a bit on the exchange tax as well. It isn't the magic bullet that you think it is though. Cutting EC generation is needed too. It will not merely be a "small" effect. All of the smaller ideas will work as part of a larger plan because they affect new characters that are created. Again, there is no magic bullet that is a be all end all idea.
Yes, a small Exchange tax won't solve everything. It is a step in the right direction though and will destroy some EC instead of just shifting EC from player to player with it never disappearing.
I'd also be fine with nerfs to admiralty and reputation EC to reduce supply methods that farmers use for grinding
I'd also be fine with other EC sinks that don't punish players just nibble away a bit of their EC. For example, perhaps at level 60 adding a small transwarp tax of 100 EC? (It shouldn't exist while leveling up since many players have very little EC before endgame)
Out of curiosity. Would you mind handing out a screenshot of the over all fleet holding contributions you made so far? Also, any details about the amount of doff and & consumable donations would be most appreciated. This would give much better idea how serous you are with your proposal.
We should just be thankful that the decisions for the direction of the game aren't made by people like that. It's easy to just sit back and say the 'fix' is for wealthy players to deplete their resources so you can leech everything for free. It's also sadly typical.
Pretty much yea.
Problem is really that I have a hard time to come up with ideas here myself that would address everybody.
What should be noted is that the whole inflation thingy is an exclusive problem for free to play peeps. For RL money spenders not so much. They get more DIL for their bucks and EC value keeps steady via the keys one can buy.
Root of the problem seems to be the Admiralty system. They introduced it to compensate the horrendous demands increases after Delta Rising. Works fine and was/is fair but perhaps it grew too over rewarding by now. Or what’s worse yet, most probably don’t use it to cover the extreme costs for strict character progression (to epic out builds and stuff e.g.) but rather to power generate resources to get ZEN and EC for the exchange.
In any case if they want to fight inflation i suspect that’s the trigger to be pulled as it will at least hurt/help pretty much everybody in game more or less equally.
I keep saying this, but nobody want to hear it, but the fix is to tax the exchange. You want to continually pull EC out circulation...this is it. You want to have it be progressive so it doesn't hurt the newer/casual players as much as the more established ones...this is it. Val likes to keep pointing out that sellers will just increase the prices...like he assumes that the buyers will just pay the increases. And even if they do, over time, this will keep inflation down...or eliminate it all together. Depending on how aggressive it is, it can even cause deflation...but that level taxation is not likely to well received. Also if you tax the seller at LISTING the item, they get too greedy and post things for above what they are worth and they will start to just burn EC. It will also stop players from using the exchange as extra storage as well.
Taxing is not going to solve anything. End users will see no difference in terms of purchase power. Yes Cryptic could perhaps remove 10% of the EC that changes hands via the exchange daily. However frankly that is a drop in the bucket. It would take ages for anything short of a 25% tax rate to effect EC inflation in this game as it is currently built.
It would also further encourage the practice of trading. The reason this thread seams to be a thing is no one wants to be forced to deal with trade windows on 2 billion EC items. Which I completely understand. Taxing the exchange will simply promote the trading. If there was a 10-15% tax on exchange sales you can bet you bottom dollar I (and most anyone else) would never sell anything of higher value via the exchange. (for sure not if they implement such a thing as a listing fee where I'm out if it sells or not) At that point I'll trade the handful of big things I move... and list nothing more valuable then doffs on the exchange.
Having no exchange tax is why this game has an actual lively exchange where there are 100s of posting of just about anything. In games with taxes... you are basically always forced to trade for big items... and games with list fees have problems supplying even medium and many smaller value items. As no one wants to pay to list and be undercut for a week before the system unlists it.
If we need sinks... they need to come from natural things like Fleet holdings. Frankly we are due for something in that regard. The colonies are all complete. Perhaps it is time for a new holding. Nothing as ambitus as the Colony but a new smaller holding with proper EC sinks could really help. There are many reasons for the current inflation issues. One of them is the completion of the games colonies. Those where a EC sink.
I believe there are a few issues... yes Admiralty system generates a good amount of EC, Fleet sinks are generally complete, none of the fleet gear ect requires any EC (which is another possible solution charge EC as well as Dil and Fleet marks for fleet gear).
My own personal peeve and my personal believe is another major contribution to inflation is the drying up of the EC whale game play revolving around keys. Of course people are still opening lockboxes, and some people still have stacks of space trait boxes ect to feed the market. However its been my experience that many box openers who would buy a bunch of keys and use them has slowed down. Part of that is Cryptics decisions to cross faction ships which has removed cross faction packs which where seen as desirable lockbox rewards. (and feed into the spread sheets key whales would keep of loot tables) The inf box currently has over 50 items in its loot table. The result is you are exceedingly more likely to pull a 7 year old 500 rep mark boost then say a space trait box or any other item that may return the cost of the key.
How does that effect inflation ? Well its simple in my estimation for the last 5 years or so the game has had somewhere around 20-50 key whales playing at any (I am guessing based on interactions with others playing sort of the same way I have been) In most cases those people would buy their 40 or 400 keys that day... use them and list a handful of big ticket items on the exchange sell them collect the EC, buy a few more keys and most importantly in many cases stock pile the EC. Yes many of them just turned things over keeping the market moving... but lots of activity also keeps pricing in line. Pricing on a specific Inf box ship or space trait ect tends to be kept low if you have multiple people looking to sell those items daily (or looking for the current holes in the market and filling them with something that sat in their bank) As an example I'm not playing the market a ton at the moment but I still have probably 100 space trait boxes and probably more like 500 ground trait at least... if some event starts that requires people to run fast on the ground, I can pop a few boxes and ensure those traits don't run wild. (and make a fraction more then opening them any other time). This is turning into a book... I posted a thread on the topic... but in my estimation Cryptic could curb EC inflation in a noticeable way by simply cleaning up the loot table on the infinity loot box. The EC sequestration effect... and the potential rise in item listers and general market movement created could be part of a overall strategy to effect things pretty immediately. (combo a Inf box cleanup with a new small EC sinking fleet holding could insta remove the need for a credit cap increase... or a silly tax that would simply encourage trading and remove the need for caps at all. lol)
Exchange tax to counter ec inflation sounds all the more convincing after reading it.
Your stakes must be quite high there.
lol no I have no more then 20 items posted at the moment. A tax wouldn't hurt me at all... if I do want to move ships ect I would simply go to the trading channel. Which as I understand it was what this thread was created to stop. Right now yes if you want to sell over the cap you trade. But if you want to skip a tax or listing fee later you would do the same anyway. Really if they add a 10% tax... how many people are going to pay 100m in tax on a billion EC ship ? The players will simply trade. Leaving us in the same place we are now of players (especially new ones) not wanting to deal with a "black" market.
I agree they can add sinks... I would simply look at fleet holdings, and fleet gear. I have no idea why no fleet gear has ever had an EC cost as an example. Would it really be game breaking if fleet consoles also required 1m EC a piece. Or fleet weapons cost 2m each ect. Everyone says they're making millions from Admiralty and great Cryptic should give people a use for it. (not a joke 2,000 EC cost but a real cost).
For what its worth I have never been shy about how I made my space wealth. (and I am by no means to of the heap of space richies either) In the early days of the lockboxes I figured out I could turn a profit buying peoples keys and using them.... at first it was as easy as buy key open box profit. Then it became sheet it out open the right box... store the proper things sell others wait awhile and profit. Then it became GUESS a ton open hopefully the right stuff store stuff sometimes for a long time.. sometimes so long that Cyrpitc makes it worthless... and again mostly profit. Then I went through a phase where I decided EC could not be trusted as a value hold and I converted a vast amount of my EC wealth into lobi... and I am still slowly burning my stack of lobi. lol However I know at this point... the INF box is a MASSIVE losser. If you open an inf box for anything other then a WTH moment or I got some free zen or whatever your being silly. Up until last year you could recover 60-70% of the value of the keys from the inf box... now its not even close. The only reason for that is because it has a 50 item loot table for no reason then Cryptic has been a bit lazy in cleaning it up. As I said in my thread knock that loot table down to 12 with more choice boxes... and the market will see a massive influx of activity which will naturally reduce inflation.
PS also for the record I have never been shy about what I do to make EC. and I spend time detailing basic simply money makers for new players ect. Yes most of them are time consuming .... but that is the game where all playing.
1) If you tax the exchange, it is a given that private trade is disabled. If you can't even fathom that level out, maybe you don't understand nearly as much as you think you do.
2) Who said anything about 10%? I never said a percentage. That amount will vary depend on the game...but most are looking at 15% at least. 33% on the higher end. The percentage can be played around with until the amount that works is found for the game.
Disable trade ? and tax the exchange 33%.
Oh my if Cryptic went that route the game would be over in months.
Believe it or not Cryptic has either by their brains or more likely by luck stumbled into a pretty good model for extracting max profit from a comparatively very small player base. One big reason is the ability to farm and play for free... or at least the overall appearance that that is possible. Disabling trade and handicapping the market to the point where no one shares anything they don't want from a lockbox or a promo box would not work. At that point you either spend money or you don't play. Cryptic wants to make money of course but they don't want to clear out the game of free or low value players either. If all that is left is the 10% of players that pay for 90% of the game... they won't be long for the exits behind everyone else.
> @coldnapalm said: > 1) If you tax the exchange, it is a given that private trade is disabled. If you can't even fathom that level out, maybe you don't understand nearly as much as you think you do. > > 2) Who said anything about 10%? I never said a percentage. That amount will vary depend on the game...but most are looking at 15% at least. 33% on the higher end. The percentage can be played around with until the amount that works is found for the game.
I do not think that direct trade would need to be disabled here. There will be some who would use that rout for expensive stuff (they do so now already) but I don’t think that many will bother with trading channels or begin to run after others to sell their poo poo just to avoid taxes of 15-20%. I certainly could not be bothered with it. The exchange is too much of a help for my time. Moreover it’s not as if personale trades couldn’t be taxed as well the moment ec is flowing there.
You present your arguments with lots of dedication and all. I understand that but can’t help to think that you only bring them up as you would not come out as winner in the scenario we discuss.
Of course trading taxes would not correct inflation by tomorrow but it’s not as if had progressed that far overnight in the first place. It will correct things slowly in the long run and everybody will contribute to his respective capabilities.
I have stakes in it as well. Both as somebody who grinds for EC by selling stuff but also as somebody who uses RL money for his gaming experience.
15-20% trading taxes will not hurt anybody or ruin the in game economy.
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Comments
You can disagree all you want but it doesn't matter. Feel free to dig back through my posts and you'll see me bragging about being right after promo ship prices went down.
If there's evidence that drop rates have decreased, I'd like to see it. It seems more likely that the ever increasing number of ships into a single infinity lock box causes decreased supply on a per ship basis due to the larger and larger number of ships to select from.
Actually, 32-bit C++/C# compilers have had built-in 64 bit math support for many years so moving to a 64-bit build wasn't needed. The main thing you gain from a 64-bit build is access to more than 3 GB of RAM for your program.
It's just that the default "int" type for variables is 32-bit so you have to switch to using an int64 type for all reading, math, writing of EC values instead. Also, all the database storage of EC values needs to change from 32 to 64, which does take up an extra 4 bytes per row.
As far as the massive undercuts, answer this for me. Why would a seller massive undercut and destroy the market when it effects their bottom line? Why would they shoot themselves in the foot like that? Could they do that, sure, but then that's less EC for them.
On the point of ships being 2 billion or more. If a ship is going to sell for more than 2b EC, it's going to sell for that price regardless of what the EC limit is. Folks will just ask for keys or similar to make up the difference. Keeping the caps where they are isn't going to do anything but force those transactions off the exchange and into backrooms where you don't know what the market is. If someone quotes you a price, you have no way of knowing they're scamming you or giving you a fair deal since you can't compare it to other listings like you could on the exchange. Let's suppose the caps are kept where they are and the ship you want is going for 2.1b EC. Let's suppose you have a guy quote you a price of 2.5b EC. Unless you already knew before hand what the ship is going for, you've now been taken for a 400m EC ride and scammed big time because you can't see what the market actually looks like. Had the exchange limit been raised to 3 billion EC as just one example, you would know that dude is trying to rip you off as you could compare to what the exchange is going for. Or better yet, you never would've had to deal with that guy to start with.
Arguing the caps should stay where they are yet complaining about prices above the caps is like turning off your living room lights, then complaining you stubbed your toe in the dark.
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the amount of dill. can differ just saying in order to make the lives of Voldemort's difficult, provide those ships in other ways than just gamble or ec
Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
> Cryptic wants real-world cash monies to pay the bills, not dil that they gave the players for free.
>
> You can already trade that 9 mil dil to other players for zen that they bought, buy keys or packs, sell them on the exchange, trade for a ship. Or buy a ship on the exchange if the cap is raised.
Well sometime it is better to get constant income then to lose much cz of greed.
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It is not about like or disslike. It is about geting more players toward the game, and overprice or only forcing to put more and more cash policy can make things worse. That was my comment aim.
I've been playing this game on and off for 10 years. I remember keys costing 1.2m/1.4m and lockbox ships selling for under 100m. Also at this time you could grind out anywhere from 300k to 1m a day pretty easily and Im not counting converting dil to zen. I have made more then one post about inflation in game and how it hurts the game. There are so many points made about how much EC comes into the game and so few ways it leaves. I remember making my fortune 1m at a time by flipping ships. It took me almost a year to go from plucking a D'kora, selling it for 75m, then getting lucky and plucking a Bug ship, selling that for 500m and then using that money to amass a fortune to over a billion. Now Im flipping ships and making tens of millions on each. Now if you were to try to grind a billion EC it would take forever. EC does come easy but inflation is outpacing it by alot.
We really need a MASSIVE EC sink. There is just way too much sitting around. Next fleet holding needs to have an insane amount of EC required. I mean instead of 900k or so per project it should be like 10 million each. Dil needs to be devalued as well. Those sinks need to be increased 3 fold. Another good idea is to increase the amount of stuff in phoenix packs that's worthwhile. Also please stop rewarding EC in the endeavor and admiralty missions. Runaway inflation is one of the reasons I have been playing less.
The Federation has (and always had) a currency - Federation Credits. Been that way since TOS, mentioned many a time. They may not be worth anything outside the Federation but they are a currency.
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Topic today: “We” need EC sinks.
Let’s come up with the best ideas that will hurt everyone else but not ourselves shall we.
Out of curiosity. Would you mind handing out a screenshot of the over all fleet holding contributions you made so far? Also, any details about the amount of doff and & consumable donations would be most appreciated. This would give much better idea how serous you are with your proposal.
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We should just be thankful that the decisions for the direction of the game aren't made by people like that. It's easy to just sit back and say the 'fix' is for wealthy players to deplete their resources so you can leech everything for free. It's also sadly typical.
Pretty much yea.
Problem is really that I have a hard time to come up with ideas here myself that would address everybody.
What should be noted is that the whole inflation thingy is an exclusive problem for free to play peeps. For RL money spenders not so much. They get more DIL for their bucks and EC value keeps steady via the keys one can buy.
Root of the problem seems to be the Admiralty system. They introduced it to compensate the horrendous demands increases after Delta Rising. Works fine and was/is fair but perhaps it grew too over rewarding by now. Or what’s worse yet, most probably don’t use it to cover the extreme costs for strict character progression (to epic out builds and stuff e.g.) but rather to power generate resources to get ZEN and EC for the exchange.
In any case if they want to fight inflation i suspect that’s the trigger to be pulled as it will at least hurt/help pretty much everybody in game more or less equally.
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I could live with that yep.
It’s the exchange where the inflation surfaces the most and also the top place where it could be fought with everybody involved bringing a fair sacrifice. Price increases as a result would not frighten me as it remains an open marked where the balance of demand and availability have a habit of straighten things out.
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Yeah, I also would have issues attempting to think of solutions that would address everybody.
Though, I suspect a potential idea is hitting the issue from multiple sides, multiple times. Address EC generation (reduce it) and create multiple EC sinks (new ones, though i blank on what those could be). Though, whatever sink that could be created would need to be long term if not permanent (sort of like Colds idea).
Sadly however, I believe that whatever solution you come up with. Casual to non hardcore players would still take a large portion of the negative effects. As i am sure several of you here (myself included) we have such large reserves of EC, we can shake off any new sink for a long period of time, even if EC generation takes a hit.
I think this would need to be a multi-year thing. Where the EC the community as a whole has is reduced over a 2 - 3 year period for example.
These numbers that you're referring to are meaningless monopoly numbers. These days, farmers can easily grind out millions of EC per day. Over 10 million EC per day is nothing when you now have admiralty and endeavors to go along with vendor trash. Even with the price cut to vendor trash years ago, you can EASILY get way more drops today than you could in the past using the patrol system.
Basically, your numbers don't matter. The amount of time spent is what matters and that hasn't changed much at all.
Now, I do agree that we could use some EC sinks, and I've been thinking about this today. We're all looking for that "magic bullet" that will be the one thing that creates a solid EC sink but, once again, I realized that we would need a multi-angled approach to this. We need several small EC sinks in addition to ideas for some larger sinks. Here's a couple of ideas big and small.
Across the board EC Nerf: I've already mentioned this but I just want to quickly cover it again. The best way to quickly counteract inflation is to stop it at the point of origin. A flat nerf to EC creation across the board would go a long way to helping. I'd nerf everything. Vendor trash (33%), duty officer rewards (negligible), admiralty rewards (50%-75% Cut, This is the BIG one), endeavor rewards (33%-50% Cut). Everything takes a cut. Also cut Tour the Galaxy down by 33%-50% or consider the possibility of making TTG a once per account per day thing.
Re-Engineering: Re-Engineering sort of acts as an EC sink already. It drains the system of vendor trash that would otherwise be used to create new EC out of thin air. However, I don't think this has enough of an effect. I would support adding a small amount of EC cost to re-engineering. Let's say 8,000 EC for the first mod. 6,400 for the second mod. 4,800 for the third mod. And finally 3,200 for the fourth mod. To roll all 4 mods at once would cost 22,400 EC. Slightly less than the cost of buying a Mk XII space weapon at uncommon quality. A bargain if you ask me.
Add EC costs for All Fleet Gear: Unless I'm mistaken, most fleet gear has no EC cost. Let's add EC to the cost of everything from Locator consoles to bridge officers all the way up to fleet ships. Take the current dilithium cost for the item and multiply it by 10x (keeping the dil cost in place as well). That will give you the EC cost. So for Locators, the EC cost would be 85,000 EC not including the Armada discount. For embassy boffs, the EC cost would be 200,000 EC not including the armada discount. Fleet ships are harder to judge, but I'd say at least 500,000 EC per T6 Fleet ship would be a good start.
Reputation System: Double the EC cost of everything across the board. Projects, gear. All of it.
EDIT: Made an adjustment based on post from petetconnorfirst who made a great point.
I've come around a bit on the exchange tax as well. It isn't the magic bullet that you think it is though. Cutting EC generation is needed too. It will not merely be a "small" effect. All of the smaller ideas will work as part of a larger plan because they affect new characters that are created. Again, there is no magic bullet that is a be all end all idea.
Yes, a small Exchange tax won't solve everything. It is a step in the right direction though and will destroy some EC instead of just shifting EC from player to player with it never disappearing.
I'd also be fine with nerfs to admiralty and reputation EC to reduce supply methods that farmers use for grinding
I'd also be fine with other EC sinks that don't punish players just nibble away a bit of their EC. For example, perhaps at level 60 adding a small transwarp tax of 100 EC? (It shouldn't exist while leveling up since many players have very little EC before endgame)
Taxing is not going to solve anything. End users will see no difference in terms of purchase power. Yes Cryptic could perhaps remove 10% of the EC that changes hands via the exchange daily. However frankly that is a drop in the bucket. It would take ages for anything short of a 25% tax rate to effect EC inflation in this game as it is currently built.
It would also further encourage the practice of trading. The reason this thread seams to be a thing is no one wants to be forced to deal with trade windows on 2 billion EC items. Which I completely understand. Taxing the exchange will simply promote the trading. If there was a 10-15% tax on exchange sales you can bet you bottom dollar I (and most anyone else) would never sell anything of higher value via the exchange. (for sure not if they implement such a thing as a listing fee where I'm out if it sells or not) At that point I'll trade the handful of big things I move... and list nothing more valuable then doffs on the exchange.
Having no exchange tax is why this game has an actual lively exchange where there are 100s of posting of just about anything. In games with taxes... you are basically always forced to trade for big items... and games with list fees have problems supplying even medium and many smaller value items. As no one wants to pay to list and be undercut for a week before the system unlists it.
If we need sinks... they need to come from natural things like Fleet holdings. Frankly we are due for something in that regard. The colonies are all complete. Perhaps it is time for a new holding. Nothing as ambitus as the Colony but a new smaller holding with proper EC sinks could really help. There are many reasons for the current inflation issues. One of them is the completion of the games colonies. Those where a EC sink.
I believe there are a few issues... yes Admiralty system generates a good amount of EC, Fleet sinks are generally complete, none of the fleet gear ect requires any EC (which is another possible solution charge EC as well as Dil and Fleet marks for fleet gear).
My own personal peeve and my personal believe is another major contribution to inflation is the drying up of the EC whale game play revolving around keys. Of course people are still opening lockboxes, and some people still have stacks of space trait boxes ect to feed the market. However its been my experience that many box openers who would buy a bunch of keys and use them has slowed down. Part of that is Cryptics decisions to cross faction ships which has removed cross faction packs which where seen as desirable lockbox rewards. (and feed into the spread sheets key whales would keep of loot tables) The inf box currently has over 50 items in its loot table. The result is you are exceedingly more likely to pull a 7 year old 500 rep mark boost then say a space trait box or any other item that may return the cost of the key.
How does that effect inflation ? Well its simple in my estimation for the last 5 years or so the game has had somewhere around 20-50 key whales playing at any (I am guessing based on interactions with others playing sort of the same way I have been) In most cases those people would buy their 40 or 400 keys that day... use them and list a handful of big ticket items on the exchange sell them collect the EC, buy a few more keys and most importantly in many cases stock pile the EC. Yes many of them just turned things over keeping the market moving... but lots of activity also keeps pricing in line. Pricing on a specific Inf box ship or space trait ect tends to be kept low if you have multiple people looking to sell those items daily (or looking for the current holes in the market and filling them with something that sat in their bank) As an example I'm not playing the market a ton at the moment but I still have probably 100 space trait boxes and probably more like 500 ground trait at least... if some event starts that requires people to run fast on the ground, I can pop a few boxes and ensure those traits don't run wild. (and make a fraction more then opening them any other time). This is turning into a book... I posted a thread on the topic... but in my estimation Cryptic could curb EC inflation in a noticeable way by simply cleaning up the loot table on the infinity loot box. The EC sequestration effect... and the potential rise in item listers and general market movement created could be part of a overall strategy to effect things pretty immediately. (combo a Inf box cleanup with a new small EC sinking fleet holding could insta remove the need for a credit cap increase... or a silly tax that would simply encourage trading and remove the need for caps at all. lol)
Exchange tax to counter ec inflation sounds all the more convincing after reading it. Your stakes must be quite high there.
God I love these threads.
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lol no I have no more then 20 items posted at the moment. A tax wouldn't hurt me at all... if I do want to move ships ect I would simply go to the trading channel. Which as I understand it was what this thread was created to stop. Right now yes if you want to sell over the cap you trade. But if you want to skip a tax or listing fee later you would do the same anyway. Really if they add a 10% tax... how many people are going to pay 100m in tax on a billion EC ship ? The players will simply trade. Leaving us in the same place we are now of players (especially new ones) not wanting to deal with a "black" market.
I agree they can add sinks... I would simply look at fleet holdings, and fleet gear. I have no idea why no fleet gear has ever had an EC cost as an example. Would it really be game breaking if fleet consoles also required 1m EC a piece. Or fleet weapons cost 2m each ect. Everyone says they're making millions from Admiralty and great Cryptic should give people a use for it. (not a joke 2,000 EC cost but a real cost).
For what its worth I have never been shy about how I made my space wealth. (and I am by no means to of the heap of space richies either) In the early days of the lockboxes I figured out I could turn a profit buying peoples keys and using them.... at first it was as easy as buy key open box profit. Then it became sheet it out open the right box... store the proper things sell others wait awhile and profit. Then it became GUESS a ton open hopefully the right stuff store stuff sometimes for a long time.. sometimes so long that Cyrpitc makes it worthless... and again mostly profit. Then I went through a phase where I decided EC could not be trusted as a value hold and I converted a vast amount of my EC wealth into lobi... and I am still slowly burning my stack of lobi. lol However I know at this point... the INF box is a MASSIVE losser. If you open an inf box for anything other then a WTH moment or I got some free zen or whatever your being silly. Up until last year you could recover 60-70% of the value of the keys from the inf box... now its not even close. The only reason for that is because it has a 50 item loot table for no reason then Cryptic has been a bit lazy in cleaning it up. As I said in my thread knock that loot table down to 12 with more choice boxes... and the market will see a massive influx of activity which will naturally reduce inflation.
PS also for the record I have never been shy about what I do to make EC. and I spend time detailing basic simply money makers for new players ect. Yes most of them are time consuming .... but that is the game where all playing.
Disable trade ? and tax the exchange 33%.
Oh my if Cryptic went that route the game would be over in months.
Believe it or not Cryptic has either by their brains or more likely by luck stumbled into a pretty good model for extracting max profit from a comparatively very small player base. One big reason is the ability to farm and play for free... or at least the overall appearance that that is possible. Disabling trade and handicapping the market to the point where no one shares anything they don't want from a lockbox or a promo box would not work. At that point you either spend money or you don't play. Cryptic wants to make money of course but they don't want to clear out the game of free or low value players either. If all that is left is the 10% of players that pay for 90% of the game... they won't be long for the exits behind everyone else.
> 1) If you tax the exchange, it is a given that private trade is disabled. If you can't even fathom that level out, maybe you don't understand nearly as much as you think you do.
>
> 2) Who said anything about 10%? I never said a percentage. That amount will vary depend on the game...but most are looking at 15% at least. 33% on the higher end. The percentage can be played around with until the amount that works is found for the game.
I do not think that direct trade would need to be disabled here. There will be some who would use that rout for expensive stuff (they do so now already) but I don’t think that many will bother with trading channels or begin to run after others to sell their poo poo just to avoid taxes of 15-20%. I certainly could not be bothered with it. The exchange is too much of a help for my time. Moreover it’s not as if personale trades couldn’t be taxed as well the moment ec is flowing there.
I‘m sorry @husanakx
You present your arguments with lots of dedication and all. I understand that but can’t help to think that you only bring them up as you would not come out as winner in the scenario we discuss.
Of course trading taxes would not correct inflation by tomorrow but it’s not as if had progressed that far overnight in the first place. It will correct things slowly in the long run and everybody will contribute to his respective capabilities.
I have stakes in it as well. Both as somebody who grinds for EC by selling stuff but also as somebody who uses RL money for his gaming experience.
15-20% trading taxes will not hurt anybody or ruin the in game economy.
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