With that being said, I would like to see Data in STO and Kelpiens.
A time travel ban is also a good idea.
As for including Discovery stuff (and to a lesser extent because it's more recent from STO's perspective, Picard stuff) : actually incorporate it into the game's actual events.
Stop using 'simulation' as an excuse why Discovery and Picard related content can be found in the game. It's lazy and cheap and it makes little sense.
J'ula is better thought through in that regard, though I'm sure they can still come up with something better than an old Klingon with centuries old technology wreaking havoc.
With that being said, I would like to see Data in STO and Kelpiens.
A time travel ban is also a good idea.
As for including Discovery stuff (and to a lesser extent because it's more recent from STO's perspective, Picard stuff) : actually incorporate it into the game's actual events.
Stop using 'simulation' as an excuse why Discovery and Picard related content can be found in the game. It's lazy and cheap and it makes little sense.
J'ula is better thought through in that regard, though I'm sure they can still come up with something better than an old Klingon with centuries old technology wreaking havoc.
They killed off Data in the final episode of Picard, but Lore on the other hand could make a reappearance, he was MIA in Picard despite being deactivated, I find it very suspicious that the Synthetics lab only had B4 to work with since Lore was far more advanced than him and yet the Federation didn't have access to him, who's to say that someone didn't reactivated him and helped him escape.
You can find a very good explanation on Youtube by the channel Midnights edge
Midnight's Edge is a known conspiracy theorist who just make things up without any proof.(Like his multiple claims Discovery has been canceled when it hasn't, and his claims Kurtzman has been fired when he hasn't)
There is no alternate Bad Robot license, and Discovery and Picard are canon, and in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY.
calling someone conspiracy theorists is just a way to ignore someone's opinion/story.
...
This is something Som has been doing a lot lately and someone needs to push back on it. It doesn't mean what he or she thinks it means, but its clear he or she is using it to try and tell people to shut up.
Second, on Midnight's Edge. No they aren't conspiracy theorists from what little I've seen of them. Words have meanings, and that doesn't describe them. Are they credible? No, as it turns out their rumors on ST:D have been wrong. Do they make it up? If you want to say so, your evidence better be a lot more than "they were wrong," otherwise it makes it look like you're just smearing them because you don't like what they have to say.
Third, no one, NO ONE, dictates to me what I watch, read, or listen to. That kind of authoritarian BS has no place in the world, especially not in Star Trek. I don't know why some people are so afraid of some ideas that they think the only way to combat them is with real or figurative book burning, yet some of the responses here distinctly seem like they are trying to shame me into submission for the high crime of listening to someone else's ideas. Its insulting to say the least. It is disturbing to think that hearing what someone has to say on a subject results in such vitriol, just because they turned out to be wrong, and perhaps even more disturbing at the implication that I must be too stupid to realize they were wrong and have to be told what to think.
And, surprise, I do also watch videos of people who like ST:D. My opinion on ST:D, as I've mentioned repeatedly is neutral, as I've not seen more than clips of it. I certainly don't like some of the concepts and writing they've come up with, though, and for reasons I can clearly state.
Yet in the end it is a hard fact, that some indeterminate number of people do not like NuTrek, not because it is new, but because it does not do very well at sticking to pre-existing lore, and makes up some ridiculous things, to the point where it is hard to keep up the suspension of disbelief, or make these new things work with old things. That is a real, legitimate issue that no amount of shouting or shaming or claiming more people like it than don't can ever fix, and its one that STO has to bend over side ways to try and fit.
And that is the main issue here. Liking or disliking NuTrek is irrelevant, it is what concepts get imported and what that means for STO. Remember Icheb and Hugh? They died utterly meaningless deaths in ST:P, and were promptly deleted from STO. You can look at it as a non-thing for STO, because they were so minor, yet their stories were a lot more meaningful than the role they played in the game.
Both of them had the Enterprise and Voyager doing some risky things to save the individual, and refuse, on moral grounds, to use them to wipe out/damage a hostile enemy. They both represented the hard choices that had two captains deciding to uphold Federation values, but they turned out to be strong individuals that made a positive effect on the universe. ST:P, by killing them off so casually, seems to want us to ask whether it was even worth what Picard and Janeway risked for these two people, while STO originally recognized those choices as having value by putting them in the game for us to recall their stories. Now they are dead and forgotten as far as STO is concerned.
Lets not forget Empress Blinky's scene. Among the things said during that scene was the claim that Terrans are bad because of some subatomic thing. That's literal nonsense (and not just humans have evil MU counterparts) but the implication was clear, Terrans are bad because of genetic reasons, thusly they were born bad and nothing can save them because its fundamental to their being. Never did I expect the Federation to be pushing racist garbage like that, that entire races/species are evil because of genetic determinism or some equivalent. I can hope that the Empress is right, and it was a lie just to try and get under her skin. I certainly never want to see that garbage in STO.
There are clearly some things that would be worth doing like dealing with new species that ST:D has introduced. Exploration and meeting new species is definitely more of what I want out of this game.
Banning time travel, though? It remains a nonsensical claim, because ST:D S3 is about a ship that traveled 900 years through time, POST-ban of time travel. Ignoring that, I still can't fathom how that would go well in STO given we have ships and a specialization dedicated to it, as well as multiple stories involving it. Stuff like that, STO should barely touch at the most, because diving too deep makes everything not make sense any more. Time travel has been critical to this games story, with us going back in time 200k years to stop a war with a far more advanced species, but going forward 1000 is too much! Frankly with time travel being such a mess as it is, I don't see how STO can try to deal with a future ban on it in a way that makes any sense (and again, ignoring the fact that banning things does not make them go away, enforcement is required, which in this case also requires time travel.)
It's easy to just pretend that those people are just some fools who are stuck in the past, people who would dislike anything that's new merely because it's new. It's also grossly unfair however and ignorant. Since you'd have to ignore that there is plenty of substantive criticism.
A lot of people criticize it just because it's new, they just won't say it. I remember how the previous ST were criticized. And then they're just looking for excuses. Sure, it has a lot of problems with canon, just like the previous series, I would definitely find people who are bothered by the change between Klingons from TOS and TNG, as well as between TNG and DIS. Drug abuse? Bad language? Let go Galactica or The Expansion In addition PIC characters are civilians and DIS crew was chosen by Lorca not for their moral values. Bearded Spock? It has a reason that will be explained later. Seeing red light from distance? Maybe they have subspace telescopes or something like that. Everything can be explained, even why the Romulans in the TOS do not have a warp. Unlikable characters? For me, for example, Captain Lorca is the most favourite captain, although many people may not like him. Different Klingons? T'Kuvma's "Klingorcs" are a strange ancient religious group, partially mutated. We also saw other Klingons in DIS, they look much more like those in TNG (f.e. Tenavik looks exactly in TNG style). IMO Andorians looks even better than in previous shows.
I may not like fantasy elements like spore drive, time crystals, space flowers etc. but it's nothing that I wouldn't enjoy the shows and was a priori against and with nostalgia and a tear in my eye, I remembered old episodes (some of them were also pretty stupid, hey Kirk's fight with Gorn/Andorian/funny natives).
It's easy to just pretend that those people are just some fools who are stuck in the past, people who would dislike anything that's new merely because it's new. It's also grossly unfair however and ignorant. Since you'd have to ignore that there is plenty of substantive criticism.
A lot of people criticize it just because it's new, they just won't say it. I remember how the previous ST were criticized. And then they're just looking for excuses. Sure, it has a lot of problems with canon, just like the previous series, I would definitely find people who are bothered by the change between Klingons from TOS and TNG, as well as between TNG and DIS. Drug abuse? Bad language? Let go Galactica or The Expansion In addition PIC characters are civilians and DIS crew was chosen by Lorca not for their moral values. Bearded Spock? It has a reason that will be explained later. Seeing red light from distance? Maybe they have subspace telescopes or something like that. Everything can be explained, even why the Romulans in the TOS do not have a warp. Unlikable characters? For me, for example, Captain Lorca is the most favourite captain, although many people may not like him. Different Klingons? T'Kuvma's "Klingorcs" are a strange ancient religious group, partially mutated. We also saw other Klingons in DIS, they look much more like those in TNG (f.e. Tenavik looks exactly in TNG style). IMO Andorians looks even better than in previous shows.
I may not like fantasy elements like spore drive, time crystals, space flowers etc. but it's nothing that I wouldn't enjoy the shows and was a priori against and with nostalgia and a tear in my eye, I remembered old episodes (some of them were also pretty stupid, hey Kirk's fight with Gorn/Andorian/funny natives).
The Klingons in Discovery did go through a change in the makeup process between season 1 and season 2. Season 1, they looked more alien than they ever did. Season 2 they decided to dial back the look and make the heads shorter and closer to a more traditional Klingon look. A lot of other Klingons in Season 1 had the alien look.
This is something Som has been doing a lot lately and someone needs to push back on it. It doesn't mean what he or she thinks it means, but its clear he or she is using it to try and tell people to shut up.
Midnight's Edge constantly pushes the idea that CBS, JJ Abrams, and/or Bad Robot, are manipulating Trek, either directly, or indirectly, into something that is demonstrably shown to not be happening. And he makes these claims despite the fact neither Abrams or Bad Robot have anything to do with Trek besides the Kelvin movies.
He is, by definition, a conspiracy theorist, and his ideas are, by definition, conspiracy theories. He is no different then people like Alex Jones, except Star Trek related.
Lets not forget Empress Blinky's scene. Among the things said during that scene was the claim that Terrans are bad because of some subatomic thing. That's literal nonsense (and not just humans have evil MU counterparts) but the implication was clear, Terrans are bad because of genetic reasons, thusly they were born bad and nothing can save them because its fundamental to their being. Never did I expect the Federation to be pushing racist garbage like that, that entire races/species are evil because of genetic determinism or some equivalent.
Except both the Federation, and Trek as a whole, has always been pushing racist garbage like that since TOS.
Remember augments? Anyone who uses genetic engineering will always turn out into some sort of evil world conquering villain, and you can NEVER EVER use it for anything positive, ever. This same thing following into TNG with Geordi where they constantly dunked on him for being "lesser" because he needed a visor to see, despite the fact the visor gave him a wider vision range then normal human eye sight. Why was this in Trek? Because Gene was horribly discriminatory against transhumanistic ideas.
This followed into alien species as well. Klingons, and Romulans? Ohh those are just mongol faced Russians, and bowl haircut Chinese. Why? Because Gene disliked them. TOS never showed either Klingons and Romulans as anything but evil. It wasn't until ST6 that Klingons got any positive imagery, and Gene HATED ST6 and tried sue everyone involved with it. Hell, Romulans STILL look bad even today, a giant monolith of paranoid idiots.
Not to mention the running "planet of hats" trope aliens of the week, which simplified every alien race they came across as a giant monolithic state where everyone dresses the same, talks the same, and believes the same thing, which is fantasy racism(all dwarves are drunks and either warriors or smiths) to the max.
Regarding the planet of hats thing:
Keep in mind that Star Trek is, like most works cultural products, a social commentary. Of course it results in simplifications, generalisations and perhaps even stigmatisation. That's not done without reason.
It's easy to just pretend that those people are just some fools who are stuck in the past, people who would dislike anything that's new merely because it's new. It's also grossly unfair however and ignorant. Since you'd have to ignore that there is plenty of substantive criticism.
A lot of people criticize it just because it's new, they just won't say it. I remember how the previous ST were criticized. And then they're just looking for excuses. Sure, it has a lot of problems with canon, just like the previous series, I would definitely find people who are bothered by the change between Klingons from TOS and TNG, as well as between TNG and DIS. Drug abuse? Bad language? Let go Galactica or The Expansion In addition PIC characters are civilians and DIS crew was chosen by Lorca not for their moral values. Bearded Spock? It has a reason that will be explained later. Seeing red light from distance? Maybe they have subspace telescopes or something like that. Everything can be explained, even why the Romulans in the TOS do not have a warp. Unlikable characters? For me, for example, Captain Lorca is the most favourite captain, although many people may not like him. Different Klingons? T'Kuvma's "Klingorcs" are a strange ancient religious group, partially mutated. We also saw other Klingons in DIS, they look much more like those in TNG (f.e. Tenavik looks exactly in TNG style). IMO Andorians looks even better than in previous shows.
I may not like fantasy elements like spore drive, time crystals, space flowers etc. but it's nothing that I wouldn't enjoy the shows and was a priori against and with nostalgia and a tear in my eye, I remembered old episodes (some of them were also pretty stupid, hey Kirk's fight with Gorn/Andorian/funny natives).
Again, it is not "just because something is new", the people who criticize the new shows have valid subjective and often objective points, and yes some errors, just like the fans of the new treks do.
Spock's beard is not a problem at all (though some people don't like it anyway), he is half human and was shown with the goatee (flaunting his human half in the Mirror Universe) and occasionally five o'clock shadow all the way back in TOS. The issue is the matter of whether full Vulcans, essentially space elves, can grow them. Personally I would rather they not have bearded full Vulcans but either way, "Spock's beard" is fully explained and rational.
A very big problem comparing the various series (especially TOS) is that a lot of the context is lost over the years and later series take some points the wrong way and make errors that irritate fans who know the context.
Even the Remastered episodes fall prey to the context gaff because the people redoing the special effects never fully understood what they were seeing and apparently never went into the old published memos and original scripts to find out. A very subtle error in Mirror, Mirror was that they used the same Enterprise digital model for both the regular Enterprise and the mirror version whereas in the original episode they were two different stock shot sets, with the main ship the usual series one but the mirror ship was the version from the second pilot as another subtle hint that things only approximated the normal timeline.
The significance of that was that in the second pilot the warp drive was all but destroyed when they crashed into the galactic barrier, jury rigging the drive with the crystals from the cracking station to limp home was intentional as justification for the improvements they made to the nacelles of the shooting model between the second pilot and the series itself. Use of that second pilot ship stock footage hinted that they never crashed the barrier and ruined the engines, probably because they did not have the empathy to feel that they owed it to the previous ship's crew (and anyone else that comes by in the future) to discover exactly what happened, and so just turned back as "mystery solved, on to less boring things" the moment they recovered the buoy.
The Fesarian ship was not supposed to be a huge sphere covered in domes in TOS, the script essentially called it a cluster ship and Balok's pilot ship was too. The description in the shooting script of its launch was a shuffling of the spheres like something stirring marbles in a fishbowl and one floated out picking up a few additional spheres of various sizes on its way out. That would have been truly fantastic and quite doable in the remastering but they apparently just heard how the original '60s tech prop was made and went with that (so much for "improving the SFX to modern standards").
The Talosians were actually a sort of Easter egg about the Greys for (then) modern sci-fi audiences. DSC and their "male Talosian" thing is a blunder since the ones in The Cage were male Talosians despite being played by actresses because they were small, fine-boned, with smooth soft faces like the role required, much the same reason Peter Pan is usually played by an actress in stage productions instead of an actor.
Similarly, the Andorians were a play on one of the versions of the Men in Black mythos, the kind who had too-smooth and often off-color skin, were tall and thin, and always wore hats to hide their antennae. The slightly craggy features and wrinkly foreheads of the ENT version missed that connection and it seems DSC has gone even further away from the concept. Is one type intrinsically better than the other? Not really, it is just a matter of personal preference and whether the Easter egg means anything to the particular viewer.
There are many more examples but it would take a rather large book to catalog and describe them all.
The problem with the red lights is that light only travels at the speed of light, which means it would have taken quite a while to reach a point were they could all be seen at once. Now, since it involved time travel they had some justification for that, but it begs the question of what did Pike hope to find hanging around thousands of years after the event in some of those locations.
The DSC Klingons are not "mutants" according to what Hetrick (the designer of the DSC Klingon makeup) said, instead they were working under the idea that not all the high houses came from the same planet so he had quite a free hand with them as long as there was at least a certain amount of similarity. It is like how in the Federation area there are so many non-terran humans and very closely human-like humanoids (and Vulcanoids).
If Moonves didn't have his head so far up his backside they could have mixed in TOS, TMP, and TNG style Klingons from the start and avoided a tremendous amount of vitriol (but Moonves wanted the strife for free advertising). Voc/Tyler would have worked much better had they started out with a TOS Klingon for instance since it would be much more believable since they would not have had to chop the backside of his skull off to get a human-shaped head.
Personally I really wish they would stop trying to force STO to fit into the new canon. They should just rip the bandaid off and say we're officially in an alternate universe.
If it isn't obvious enough I think it's safe to say the game will be about nothing else now...I mean we've been going on for over 2 years with nothing but the same old pack of Discovery Klingons...no new tfos or reps that go past the Discovery rep. GVame may as well be called Discovery Online now.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
With that being said, I would like to see Data in STO and Kelpiens.
A time travel ban is also a good idea.
As for including Discovery stuff (and to a lesser extent because it's more recent from STO's perspective, Picard stuff) : actually incorporate it into the game's actual events.
Stop using 'simulation' as an excuse why Discovery and Picard related content can be found in the game. It's lazy and cheap and it makes little sense.
J'ula is better thought through in that regard, though I'm sure they can still come up with something better than an old Klingon with centuries old technology wreaking havoc.
They killed off Data in the final episode of Picard, but Lore on the other hand could make a reappearance, he was MIA in Picard despite being deactivated, I find it very suspicious that the Synthetics lab only had B4 to work with since Lore was far more advanced than him and yet the Federation didn't have access to him, who's to say that someone didn't reactivated him and helped him escape.
Actually, Data was just functional data, trapped in a simulated environment not of his making. For him, it was a living 'Hell', in there for 14 years, he just wanted out.
In a Beta Canon novel, Cmdr Maddox was given access to the remains of B4, Lore has remained locked away, in seperated parts and was never touched.
This is something Som has been doing a lot lately and someone needs to push back on it. It doesn't mean what he or she thinks it means, but its clear he or she is using it to try and tell people to shut up.
Midnight's Edge constantly pushes the idea that CBS, JJ Abrams, and/or Bad Robot, are manipulating Trek, either directly, or indirectly, into something that is demonstrably shown to not be happening. And he makes these claims despite the fact neither Abrams or Bad Robot have anything to do with Trek besides the Kelvin movies.
He is, by definition, a conspiracy theorist, and his ideas are, by definition, conspiracy theories. He is no different then people like Alex Jones, except Star Trek related.
Lets not forget Empress Blinky's scene. Among the things said during that scene was the claim that Terrans are bad because of some subatomic thing. That's literal nonsense (and not just humans have evil MU counterparts) but the implication was clear, Terrans are bad because of genetic reasons, thusly they were born bad and nothing can save them because its fundamental to their being. Never did I expect the Federation to be pushing racist garbage like that, that entire races/species are evil because of genetic determinism or some equivalent.
Except both the Federation, and Trek as a whole, has always been pushing racist garbage like that since TOS.
Remember augments? Anyone who uses genetic engineering will always turn out into some sort of evil world conquering villain, and you can NEVER EVER use it for anything positive, ever. This same thing following into TNG with Geordi where they constantly dunked on him for being "lesser" because he needed a visor to see, despite the fact the visor gave him a wider vision range then normal human eye sight. Why was this in Trek? Because Gene was horribly discriminatory against transhumanistic ideas.
This followed into alien species as well. Klingons, and Romulans? Ohh those are just mongol faced Russians, and bowl haircut Chinese. Why? Because Gene disliked them. TOS never showed either Klingons and Romulans as anything but evil. It wasn't until ST6 that Klingons got any positive imagery, and Gene HATED ST6 and tried sue everyone involved with it. Hell, Romulans STILL look bad even today, a giant monolith of paranoid idiots.
Not to mention the running "planet of hats" trope aliens of the week, which simplified every alien race they came across as a giant monolithic state where everyone dresses the same, talks the same, and believes the same thing, which is fantasy racism(all dwarves are drunks and either warriors or smiths) to the max.
Regarding the planet of hats thing:
Keep in mind that Star Trek is, like most works cultural products, a social commentary. Of course it results in simplifications, generalisations and perhaps even stigmatisation. That's not done without reason.
Well, there is a fellow who loves Trek, and he goes by the moniker of Nitpicking Nerd @YouTube, european...his breakdown on Trek...is very interesting.
And you forgot to add, that Secret Hideout was created in 2014 to handle the TV side of Trek...a newbie company from scratch. And were giving the keys at that time of a late 40ish old franchise.
And back then, when JJA got the Film IP license, it was known during those times he wanted CBS to end all of PRIME TREK merchandise, and do his own.
CBS at that time...blunty said No.
And yes, the Late Gene R, was not a perfect person, as I have learned of late...but in the end, he was Human just like the rest of us.
With that being said, I would like to see Data in STO and Kelpiens.
A time travel ban is also a good idea.
As for including Discovery stuff (and to a lesser extent because it's more recent from STO's perspective, Picard stuff) : actually incorporate it into the game's actual events.
Stop using 'simulation' as an excuse why Discovery and Picard related content can be found in the game. It's lazy and cheap and it makes little sense.
J'ula is better thought through in that regard, though I'm sure they can still come up with something better than an old Klingon with centuries old technology wreaking havoc.
They killed off Data in the final episode of Picard, but Lore on the other hand could make a reappearance, he was MIA in Picard despite being deactivated, I find it very suspicious that the Synthetics lab only had B4 to work with since Lore was far more advanced than him and yet the Federation didn't have access to him, who's to say that someone didn't reactivated him and helped him escape.
Data is in the drawer. He downloaded his personality into B4 which started coming out at the end of Nemesis. According the canon comic, Data fully comes back. But when the robots were made illegal, they stuck him in a drawer.
There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues (I've seen that clip of Empress Blinky, and that is hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen in Star Trek.)
But they are canon. The issue comes in the fact that bad writing and continuity issues within canon can severely hurt an IP like nothing else.
In my country (cca 20k votes), Picard has the second highest rating among Star trek series (only TNG is better), Discovery is higher than TOS, TAS, DS9, LD and equally with ENT. But for a group of orthodox trekkies, everything new is bad.
And about the Empress, she can have any sort of augmentation, so she can disrupt a holograms. It is no more stupid than vulcan nerve pinch.
(Emphasis mine.)
Well, no.
Those who complain about the new series aren't complaining merely because it's new.
Drug abuse, canon violations, major changes to important characters (both visually as well as to their, well, characters and often just to please a very specific part of the fanbase), stories that defy basic astronomical knowledge (seeing red lights that are very far apart at the same time), unlikable characters, different tones and 'atmosphere', overly relying on special effects and Dutch angles, combining those with so much action so that viewers can often not discern what is going on, effects so cheap it's sad (Inquiry), usage of bad language and using it so often that it loses any impact it might have...
There is plenty to dislike in the new series and none of these things have anything to do with those series being 'new'. While some of these things are arguably subjective, criticism is just as often well-founded. Regardless, literally no one I've heard or read, argued that the new series are bad just because they're new.
Also, it's not just one thing, it's the combination of so many things and ways in which the new series depart from the other series that are causing some people to be annoyed.
It's easy to just pretend that those people are just some fools who are stuck in the past, people who would dislike anything that's new merely because it's new. It's also grossly unfair however and ignorant. Since you'd have to ignore that there is plenty of substantive criticism.
That.
I don't like it because it's new....I just don't like the writing, unlikable characters, dark-dystopian feeling both series have, not even trying to fit into what was before (especially Disco, this is a prequel....), changing visuals for the mere sake of changing it.
So, my apologies for not liking this 'new' stuff. Each time I see these, I feel depressed. IF I wanna watch a dark, gritty, dystopian sci-fi, there's a million other things one can see. To me, Trek and Dystopian is like oil and water....they don't mix that well.
I want to feel....you know, GOOD, watching a Trek episode.....Lower Decks, IS, that good trek...first trek in FIFTEEN YEARS (apart from Beyond), that I enjoyed and felt GOOD upon watching.
Considering that Picard introduced us to a major retcon the Zhat Vash an organization who's supposed be manipulating the Tal Shiar from the shadows, but even they wouldn't have allowed Hakeev to ally himself with the Iconians.
I do love the forum's...how was it put by one of the mods? Hyperbolic face slapping? 👀🍿🍺
Hmm, imagine Lore being reactivated during the current Disco time period. Imagine him being augmented with all that nice new tech...especially the programmable matter. Oh, what a menace he would be...Star Trek's own T-3100.
It's easy to just pretend that those people are just some fools who are stuck in the past, people who would dislike anything that's new merely because it's new. It's also grossly unfair however and ignorant. Since you'd have to ignore that there is plenty of substantive criticism.
A lot of people criticize it just because it's new, they just won't say it. I remember how the previous ST were criticized. And then they're just looking for excuses. Sure, it has a lot of problems with canon, just like the previous series, I would definitely find people who are bothered by the change between Klingons from TOS and TNG, as well as between TNG and DIS. Drug abuse? Bad language? Let go Galactica or The Expansion In addition PIC characters are civilians and DIS crew was chosen by Lorca not for their moral values. Bearded Spock? It has a reason that will be explained later. Seeing red light from distance? Maybe they have subspace telescopes or something like that. Everything can be explained, even why the Romulans in the TOS do not have a warp. Unlikable characters? For me, for example, Captain Lorca is the most favourite captain, although many people may not like him. Different Klingons? T'Kuvma's "Klingorcs" are a strange ancient religious group, partially mutated. We also saw other Klingons in DIS, they look much more like those in TNG (f.e. Tenavik looks exactly in TNG style). IMO Andorians looks even better than in previous shows.
I may not like fantasy elements like spore drive, time crystals, space flowers etc. but it's nothing that I wouldn't enjoy the shows and was a priori against and with nostalgia and a tear in my eye, I remembered old episodes (some of them were also pretty stupid, hey Kirk's fight with Gorn/Andorian/funny natives).
Get enough of the lies everywhere else, do we need it here too?
It isn't because it's "new" it's because it's awful.
The writing is so bad it feels like it's done by 10 year olds who don't have a grasp on their science classes
It literally ignores science and instead replaces it with fantasy, magic mushroom drive and magic box that fixes ships instantly
It's filled with hate, racism, sexism, promotes drug and alcohol abuse, and is incredibly dystopian. Gene's vision for the future was the opposite of all of this
It goes out of its way to destroy legacy characters...Pike and Picard were both turned into doormats...Spock apparently has a super power now. Riker and Troi were content with letting Picard go alone (and that was how it was written because Clancy was originally meant to command the fleet not Riker). It makes the son of Soong look like a moron with how easily one moment he was ready to commit genocide and the next he changed his mind...it turned Seven into a complete drunken thug which just destroys every ounce of character development she had in Voyager
It goes out of it's way to urinate all over canon at every single turn....it's easier to find a couple dozen canon violations that it is a couple of things that are actually loyal to canon
If the future is female it shows how little Kurtzman thinks of women, not only did he utterly lie about his promise to not just have another white male captain...the women in charage are absolutely incompetent...Cornwell was a idiot, willing to commit genocide and openly worked with section 31, and she took the easy way out after all of her failures. Clancy was so blinded by anger and rage instead of listening to one of Starfleet's biggest legends she swore a lot and offered no help which could have caused the death of all organic life. Soji after a short amount of time was willing to commit genocide then quickly swayed again, nothing like a old stereotype that women can't make up there minds to show how much he thinks of women!
The La Sirenia was literally a ship full of murderers and enablers
None of the ships even loosely resemble the era they belong in other than the Connie, D7, and the USS Copy and Paste
It's has more in common with the Kelvin timeline than it does with the Prime timelines...glass viewscreens...digital consoles...pew pew phasers instead of beams...warp that looks more like hyperspace...shipyards on the ground
It steals more ideas from other shows that using actual Star Trek ideas...Discovery is apparently a Tardis just as one example
There is probably TONS more I could add but it's 5am and I should be heading to bed.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
With that being said, I would like to see Data in STO and Kelpiens.
A time travel ban is also a good idea.
As for including Discovery stuff (and to a lesser extent because it's more recent from STO's perspective, Picard stuff) : actually incorporate it into the game's actual events.
Stop using 'simulation' as an excuse why Discovery and Picard related content can be found in the game. It's lazy and cheap and it makes little sense.
J'ula is better thought through in that regard, though I'm sure they can still come up with something better than an old Klingon with centuries old technology wreaking havoc.
They killed off Data in the final episode of Picard, but Lore on the other hand could make a reappearance, he was MIA in Picard despite being deactivated, I find it very suspicious that the Synthetics lab only had B4 to work with since Lore was far more advanced than him and yet the Federation didn't have access to him, who's to say that someone didn't reactivated him and helped him escape.
Data is in the drawer. He downloaded his personality into B4 which started coming out at the end of Nemesis. According the canon comic, Data fully comes back. But when the robots were made illegal, they stuck him in a drawer.
In the last NGen film, which happened. In the comic book, he *Data* continued upgrades on the B4 form, to where he was normal as he was in his original Data body. He later became a captain of his own ship, with holo Datas as a crew.
And then, he commanded the Enterprise E at some point.
All of that was retconned, with the Picard series narration, that the transfer didn't take hold in the B4 form, and had a 99% failure rate, which means after Nemesis on the transfer, it didn't work, nullifying the comic book, and whatever reference material thereafter. Most of that was Beta canon anyway, not Alpha.
Now the Hokey explanation of 'Data' essence surviving in neuron chips (although the entire body was destroyed in the film) was invoked, that Data was talking with Maddox over a period of time, and sent 'materials' to help with his work on android creation.
This is an alternation in its entirely.
Addressing the Simulation term being used in STO--My opinion...It is being done that way, to keep separate the different versions on what Treks are displayed.
1. There is Prime Trek--Enterprise, TOS, NGen, DS9 & Voyager. *Lower Decks gets a mention because they near close to this timeline*
2. There is the Kelvin Time *film*, totally separate.
3. And now, we have an Alternate Trek of Discovery, followed by Picard.
Yes, there is utter confusion to how it looks, but STO was technically licensed for Scenario #1 first, but gradually the other 2 scenarios were just added piecemeals, as just add ons. 98% of all stories camne from scenario #1 and has stay that way currently.
The only way that changes, if the License holder *CBS/Paramount* says on the record that Scenario #1, is no longer the standard and adapts Scenario # 3, totally nullifying Scenario #1 outright.
Hence the term used 'Simulation' is to keep the seperation of what Trek era or versions is displayed before you. It is kinda sad it is like this...but in living memory, when was the last time anyone has witness such a license to be in 'turmoil' moment of this nature?
> @truewarper said: > (Quote) > > 1. There is Prime Trek--Enterprise, TOS, NGen, DS9 & Voyager. *Lower Decks gets a mention because they near close to this timeline* > > 2. There is the Kelvin Time *film*, totally separate. > > 3. And now, we have an Alternate Trek of Discovery, followed by Picard.
This is factually incorrect. Official sources have called this differently.
Now I know the total retcon of the og countdown is a headache for sto but it was never hard canon to begin with so tis what it is buts influence is surprisingly negligible.
Discovery did have to go out of it's way to undo some of it's own retcons but it did so through anson mount's boundless charm.
I'm not saying by any means that you must like the new productions to be considered a fan of course not but you do have to accept that they are part of one unbroken continuity. You can just choose not to absorb said media as I do with TOS but I still accept that it is part of the canon and managed to find my own fun doing the TOS content in sto. I'm sure having jg hertzler and Robert oreilly in the new Klingon civil war arc was done in much same way as not to alienate anyone who would be unhappy with only j'ula.
Saying that though my hopes are that sto will move onto something that is a little bit more original with its next arc. J'ula is not a very good character with this unearned redemption story which is so hollow and my 2256 captain would not just accept her as an ally not at all.
I di miss a lot of the old original missions, simple as they were they were fun stories and sometimes story is more important than gameplay particularly in an rpg if sto counts as an rpg that is. Shame theres no way to play the removed missions.
3. And now, we have an Alternate Trek of Discovery, followed by Picard
Again, incorrect. Both Discovery and Picard are Prime Timeline and 100% canon. The 'alternate timeline' thing is just something people say because they don't like Discovery and can't accept it. Regardless, it's prime and 100% canon.
Honestly, the fact you are willing to diminish, and misrepresent, the actual actions of these characters speaks more about you then it does Kurtzman.
We don't always agree, but we do here. That post was nothing but a temper tantrum from someone criticizing something they obviously have absolutely no understanding of. It's easy to just attack the writing because you don't get it, it's a familiar tactic with Discovery haters.
That isn't twisting it, that is how its always worked.
The Prime directive is, and literally always has been, a genocide mandate. This is why the crews of the show always break it, because its awful, miserable, and morally indefensible.
You saying so doesn't make it true.
The Prime Directive was thought up by TOS producer Gene L. Coon as a critical statement about US interference in Vietnam.
In essence a global superpower dictating how a lesser developed country should develop and form its society, of course benefiting US interest in return.
As it was contemporary statement it has to be viewed under such lens.
It makes no sense to remove the original context.
The purpose of he Prime Directive therefore was to prevent the Federation from enforcing its values and views on lesser developed worlds/species.
The “actual” Prime Directive has never been fully phrased or published. The audience only ever got to hear a basic summary by character on the shows.
This is like analysing the constitution of the USA without ever reading the actual constitution...
Like on Capella which had a pre-warp species, but also had valuable deposits of topaline the Federation wanted. Gotta love The Federation keeping alive the Imperialist and Colonialist, nature of the British Empire well into the future.
I don’t watch TRIBBLE. But that is just another point about TRIBBLE missing the point isn’t it?
> @truewarper said:
> (Quote)
>
> 1. There is Prime Trek--Enterprise, TOS, NGen, DS9 & Voyager. *Lower Decks gets a mention because they near close to this timeline*
>
> 2. There is the Kelvin Time *film*, totally separate.
>
> 3. And now, we have an Alternate Trek of Discovery, followed by Picard.
This is factually incorrect. Official sources have called this differently.
Now I know the total retcon of the og countdown is a headache for sto but it was never hard canon to begin with so tis what it is buts influence is surprisingly negligible.
Discovery did have to go out of it's way to undo some of it's own retcons but it did so through anson mount's boundless charm.
I'm not saying by any means that you must like the new productions to be considered a fan of course not but you do have to accept that they are part of one unbroken continuity. You can just choose not to absorb said media as I do with TOS but I still accept that it is part of the canon and managed to find my own fun doing the TOS content in sto. I'm sure having jg hertzler and Robert oreilly in the new Klingon civil war arc was done in much same way as not to alienate anyone who would be unhappy with only j'ula.
Saying that though my hopes are that sto will move onto something that is a little bit more original with its next arc. J'ula is not a very good character with this unearned redemption story which is so hollow and my 2256 captain would not just accept her as an ally not at all.
I di miss a lot of the old original missions, simple as they were they were fun stories and sometimes story is more important than gameplay particularly in an rpg if sto counts as an rpg that is. Shame theres no way to play the removed missions.
If you are saying that CBS has final word, can't disagree since they OWE the IP, but they have no true love for Trek, as they just looking at it, to make money. There is no one in that corporation who outrightly is a fan of it. So, anything they say...is taking with a major dose of salt.
The comics/books are just outsourcers for potential ideas to push a narrative, they are not hard canon. And they weren't a true headache for this gaming company per se.
Discovery undoing their history of their Trek, debatable.
I would not have mind the productions at all, if they didn't degrade the past history so outright, so...in that vein, they are treated as a separate entity on their telling on what Trek looks like from their own point of view. And for the first TWO seasons, they concentrated on one main character, and not the rest of the crew...all previous Treks before 2009, dealt with a ensemble cast, with a lead, but the story revolved around everyone...not just one-person continuity.
They (the production) have soft booted this 3rd season to reflect that ensemble feel...they haven't surpassed my expectations as of late.
As for J'ula...the entire storyline has no true water, I am bugged to the fact, her technology of her 'time' was able to knock out ships systems in the 25th century. The sense of disbelief from the science side, does not mesh well with my senses.
All the old missions were indeed fun and interesting, because they filled in the gaps of not having Trek around when this game first started. But with all things, time and experience will filled that void...*tips hat to the company here* I built the PCs for this game and did it for no other...Some of those missions, were either degradable in visual quality or they didn't fit the overall structure of story narration in a general sense. I came in after the Beta run was done.
And sadly...Cryptic cannot go past into the Unknown areas of Trek, by contract...there are parts of the game, where the Deep Space borders exist, which has potential of exploration, meeting new races and potential conflicts. But nope...don't have access to travel there. The game is NOT an open-source material (like some rpgs tabletop games had that privilege in the past). And, I have read on this forum a while back, that the development side is reaching or has reached the end of ideas for storytelling...sad to hear, but it is expected giving the current atmosphere.
Lastly...I don't take well to revisionist history. Will not dismiss my own lifetime of experience...
3. And now, we have an Alternate Trek of Discovery, followed by Picard
Again, incorrect. Both Discovery and Picard are Prime Timeline and 100% canon. The 'alternate timeline' thing is just something people say because they don't like Discovery and can't accept it. Regardless, it's prime and 100% canon.
Let it be said, we can agree to disagree on the notion on what is considered 'canon' percieved by many different people.
And, I have read on this forum a while back, that the development side is reaching or has reached the end of ideas for storytelling...sad to hear, but it is expected giving the current atmosphere.
Uhh no. Cryptic said they were running out of ideas, but all these new Trek shows coming out gave them so much to work with that now they have too many ideas.
Comments
A time travel ban is also a good idea.
As for including Discovery stuff (and to a lesser extent because it's more recent from STO's perspective, Picard stuff) : actually incorporate it into the game's actual events.
Stop using 'simulation' as an excuse why Discovery and Picard related content can be found in the game. It's lazy and cheap and it makes little sense.
J'ula is better thought through in that regard, though I'm sure they can still come up with something better than an old Klingon with centuries old technology wreaking havoc.
They killed off Data in the final episode of Picard, but Lore on the other hand could make a reappearance, he was MIA in Picard despite being deactivated, I find it very suspicious that the Synthetics lab only had B4 to work with since Lore was far more advanced than him and yet the Federation didn't have access to him, who's to say that someone didn't reactivated him and helped him escape.
First:
This is something Som has been doing a lot lately and someone needs to push back on it. It doesn't mean what he or she thinks it means, but its clear he or she is using it to try and tell people to shut up.
Second, on Midnight's Edge. No they aren't conspiracy theorists from what little I've seen of them. Words have meanings, and that doesn't describe them. Are they credible? No, as it turns out their rumors on ST:D have been wrong. Do they make it up? If you want to say so, your evidence better be a lot more than "they were wrong," otherwise it makes it look like you're just smearing them because you don't like what they have to say.
Third, no one, NO ONE, dictates to me what I watch, read, or listen to. That kind of authoritarian BS has no place in the world, especially not in Star Trek. I don't know why some people are so afraid of some ideas that they think the only way to combat them is with real or figurative book burning, yet some of the responses here distinctly seem like they are trying to shame me into submission for the high crime of listening to someone else's ideas. Its insulting to say the least. It is disturbing to think that hearing what someone has to say on a subject results in such vitriol, just because they turned out to be wrong, and perhaps even more disturbing at the implication that I must be too stupid to realize they were wrong and have to be told what to think.
And, surprise, I do also watch videos of people who like ST:D. My opinion on ST:D, as I've mentioned repeatedly is neutral, as I've not seen more than clips of it. I certainly don't like some of the concepts and writing they've come up with, though, and for reasons I can clearly state.
Yet in the end it is a hard fact, that some indeterminate number of people do not like NuTrek, not because it is new, but because it does not do very well at sticking to pre-existing lore, and makes up some ridiculous things, to the point where it is hard to keep up the suspension of disbelief, or make these new things work with old things. That is a real, legitimate issue that no amount of shouting or shaming or claiming more people like it than don't can ever fix, and its one that STO has to bend over side ways to try and fit.
And that is the main issue here. Liking or disliking NuTrek is irrelevant, it is what concepts get imported and what that means for STO. Remember Icheb and Hugh? They died utterly meaningless deaths in ST:P, and were promptly deleted from STO. You can look at it as a non-thing for STO, because they were so minor, yet their stories were a lot more meaningful than the role they played in the game.
Both of them had the Enterprise and Voyager doing some risky things to save the individual, and refuse, on moral grounds, to use them to wipe out/damage a hostile enemy. They both represented the hard choices that had two captains deciding to uphold Federation values, but they turned out to be strong individuals that made a positive effect on the universe. ST:P, by killing them off so casually, seems to want us to ask whether it was even worth what Picard and Janeway risked for these two people, while STO originally recognized those choices as having value by putting them in the game for us to recall their stories. Now they are dead and forgotten as far as STO is concerned.
Lets not forget Empress Blinky's scene. Among the things said during that scene was the claim that Terrans are bad because of some subatomic thing. That's literal nonsense (and not just humans have evil MU counterparts) but the implication was clear, Terrans are bad because of genetic reasons, thusly they were born bad and nothing can save them because its fundamental to their being. Never did I expect the Federation to be pushing racist garbage like that, that entire races/species are evil because of genetic determinism or some equivalent. I can hope that the Empress is right, and it was a lie just to try and get under her skin. I certainly never want to see that garbage in STO.
There are clearly some things that would be worth doing like dealing with new species that ST:D has introduced. Exploration and meeting new species is definitely more of what I want out of this game.
Banning time travel, though? It remains a nonsensical claim, because ST:D S3 is about a ship that traveled 900 years through time, POST-ban of time travel. Ignoring that, I still can't fathom how that would go well in STO given we have ships and a specialization dedicated to it, as well as multiple stories involving it. Stuff like that, STO should barely touch at the most, because diving too deep makes everything not make sense any more. Time travel has been critical to this games story, with us going back in time 200k years to stop a war with a far more advanced species, but going forward 1000 is too much! Frankly with time travel being such a mess as it is, I don't see how STO can try to deal with a future ban on it in a way that makes any sense (and again, ignoring the fact that banning things does not make them go away, enforcement is required, which in this case also requires time travel.)
He died trying to save the liberated Borg. I'd preferred they hadn't killed him off, but I don't consider his death to have had no meaning.
Icheb on the other hand... Yeah, that's a whole different story.
A lot of people criticize it just because it's new, they just won't say it. I remember how the previous ST were criticized. And then they're just looking for excuses. Sure, it has a lot of problems with canon, just like the previous series, I would definitely find people who are bothered by the change between Klingons from TOS and TNG, as well as between TNG and DIS. Drug abuse? Bad language? Let go Galactica or The Expansion
I may not like fantasy elements like spore drive, time crystals, space flowers etc. but it's nothing that I wouldn't enjoy the shows and was a priori against and with nostalgia and a tear in my eye, I remembered old episodes (some of them were also pretty stupid, hey Kirk's fight with Gorn/Andorian/funny natives).
The Klingons in Discovery did go through a change in the makeup process between season 1 and season 2. Season 1, they looked more alien than they ever did. Season 2 they decided to dial back the look and make the heads shorter and closer to a more traditional Klingon look. A lot of other Klingons in Season 1 had the alien look.
Regarding the planet of hats thing:
Keep in mind that Star Trek is, like most works cultural products, a social commentary. Of course it results in simplifications, generalisations and perhaps even stigmatisation. That's not done without reason.
Again, it is not "just because something is new", the people who criticize the new shows have valid subjective and often objective points, and yes some errors, just like the fans of the new treks do.
Spock's beard is not a problem at all (though some people don't like it anyway), he is half human and was shown with the goatee (flaunting his human half in the Mirror Universe) and occasionally five o'clock shadow all the way back in TOS. The issue is the matter of whether full Vulcans, essentially space elves, can grow them. Personally I would rather they not have bearded full Vulcans but either way, "Spock's beard" is fully explained and rational.
A very big problem comparing the various series (especially TOS) is that a lot of the context is lost over the years and later series take some points the wrong way and make errors that irritate fans who know the context.
Even the Remastered episodes fall prey to the context gaff because the people redoing the special effects never fully understood what they were seeing and apparently never went into the old published memos and original scripts to find out. A very subtle error in Mirror, Mirror was that they used the same Enterprise digital model for both the regular Enterprise and the mirror version whereas in the original episode they were two different stock shot sets, with the main ship the usual series one but the mirror ship was the version from the second pilot as another subtle hint that things only approximated the normal timeline.
The significance of that was that in the second pilot the warp drive was all but destroyed when they crashed into the galactic barrier, jury rigging the drive with the crystals from the cracking station to limp home was intentional as justification for the improvements they made to the nacelles of the shooting model between the second pilot and the series itself. Use of that second pilot ship stock footage hinted that they never crashed the barrier and ruined the engines, probably because they did not have the empathy to feel that they owed it to the previous ship's crew (and anyone else that comes by in the future) to discover exactly what happened, and so just turned back as "mystery solved, on to less boring things" the moment they recovered the buoy.
The Fesarian ship was not supposed to be a huge sphere covered in domes in TOS, the script essentially called it a cluster ship and Balok's pilot ship was too. The description in the shooting script of its launch was a shuffling of the spheres like something stirring marbles in a fishbowl and one floated out picking up a few additional spheres of various sizes on its way out. That would have been truly fantastic and quite doable in the remastering but they apparently just heard how the original '60s tech prop was made and went with that (so much for "improving the SFX to modern standards").
The Talosians were actually a sort of Easter egg about the Greys for (then) modern sci-fi audiences. DSC and their "male Talosian" thing is a blunder since the ones in The Cage were male Talosians despite being played by actresses because they were small, fine-boned, with smooth soft faces like the role required, much the same reason Peter Pan is usually played by an actress in stage productions instead of an actor.
Similarly, the Andorians were a play on one of the versions of the Men in Black mythos, the kind who had too-smooth and often off-color skin, were tall and thin, and always wore hats to hide their antennae. The slightly craggy features and wrinkly foreheads of the ENT version missed that connection and it seems DSC has gone even further away from the concept. Is one type intrinsically better than the other? Not really, it is just a matter of personal preference and whether the Easter egg means anything to the particular viewer.
There are many more examples but it would take a rather large book to catalog and describe them all.
The problem with the red lights is that light only travels at the speed of light, which means it would have taken quite a while to reach a point were they could all be seen at once. Now, since it involved time travel they had some justification for that, but it begs the question of what did Pike hope to find hanging around thousands of years after the event in some of those locations.
The DSC Klingons are not "mutants" according to what Hetrick (the designer of the DSC Klingon makeup) said, instead they were working under the idea that not all the high houses came from the same planet so he had quite a free hand with them as long as there was at least a certain amount of similarity. It is like how in the Federation area there are so many non-terran humans and very closely human-like humanoids (and Vulcanoids).
If Moonves didn't have his head so far up his backside they could have mixed in TOS, TMP, and TNG style Klingons from the start and avoided a tremendous amount of vitriol (but Moonves wanted the strife for free advertising). Voc/Tyler would have worked much better had they started out with a TOS Klingon for instance since it would be much more believable since they would not have had to chop the backside of his skull off to get a human-shaped head.
If it isn't obvious enough I think it's safe to say the game will be about nothing else now...I mean we've been going on for over 2 years with nothing but the same old pack of Discovery Klingons...no new tfos or reps that go past the Discovery rep. GVame may as well be called Discovery Online now.
Actually, Data was just functional data, trapped in a simulated environment not of his making. For him, it was a living 'Hell', in there for 14 years, he just wanted out.
In a Beta Canon novel, Cmdr Maddox was given access to the remains of B4, Lore has remained locked away, in seperated parts and was never touched.
Well, there is a fellow who loves Trek, and he goes by the moniker of Nitpicking Nerd @YouTube, european...his breakdown on Trek...is very interesting.
And you forgot to add, that Secret Hideout was created in 2014 to handle the TV side of Trek...a newbie company from scratch. And were giving the keys at that time of a late 40ish old franchise.
And back then, when JJA got the Film IP license, it was known during those times he wanted CBS to end all of PRIME TREK merchandise, and do his own.
CBS at that time...blunty said No.
And yes, the Late Gene R, was not a perfect person, as I have learned of late...but in the end, he was Human just like the rest of us.
Data is in the drawer. He downloaded his personality into B4 which started coming out at the end of Nemesis. According the canon comic, Data fully comes back. But when the robots were made illegal, they stuck him in a drawer.
That.
I don't like it because it's new....I just don't like the writing, unlikable characters, dark-dystopian feeling both series have, not even trying to fit into what was before (especially Disco, this is a prequel....), changing visuals for the mere sake of changing it.
So, my apologies for not liking this 'new' stuff. Each time I see these, I feel depressed. IF I wanna watch a dark, gritty, dystopian sci-fi, there's a million other things one can see. To me, Trek and Dystopian is like oil and water....they don't mix that well.
I want to feel....you know, GOOD, watching a Trek episode.....Lower Decks, IS, that good trek...first trek in FIFTEEN YEARS (apart from Beyond), that I enjoyed and felt GOOD upon watching.
Hmm, imagine Lore being reactivated during the current Disco time period. Imagine him being augmented with all that nice new tech...especially the programmable matter. Oh, what a menace he would be...Star Trek's own T-3100.
Get enough of the lies everywhere else, do we need it here too?
It isn't because it's "new" it's because it's awful.
The writing is so bad it feels like it's done by 10 year olds who don't have a grasp on their science classes
It literally ignores science and instead replaces it with fantasy, magic mushroom drive and magic box that fixes ships instantly
It's filled with hate, racism, sexism, promotes drug and alcohol abuse, and is incredibly dystopian. Gene's vision for the future was the opposite of all of this
It goes out of its way to destroy legacy characters...Pike and Picard were both turned into doormats...Spock apparently has a super power now. Riker and Troi were content with letting Picard go alone (and that was how it was written because Clancy was originally meant to command the fleet not Riker). It makes the son of Soong look like a moron with how easily one moment he was ready to commit genocide and the next he changed his mind...it turned Seven into a complete drunken thug which just destroys every ounce of character development she had in Voyager
It goes out of it's way to urinate all over canon at every single turn....it's easier to find a couple dozen canon violations that it is a couple of things that are actually loyal to canon
If the future is female it shows how little Kurtzman thinks of women, not only did he utterly lie about his promise to not just have another white male captain...the women in charage are absolutely incompetent...Cornwell was a idiot, willing to commit genocide and openly worked with section 31, and she took the easy way out after all of her failures. Clancy was so blinded by anger and rage instead of listening to one of Starfleet's biggest legends she swore a lot and offered no help which could have caused the death of all organic life. Soji after a short amount of time was willing to commit genocide then quickly swayed again, nothing like a old stereotype that women can't make up there minds to show how much he thinks of women!
The La Sirenia was literally a ship full of murderers and enablers
None of the ships even loosely resemble the era they belong in other than the Connie, D7, and the USS Copy and Paste
It's has more in common with the Kelvin timeline than it does with the Prime timelines...glass viewscreens...digital consoles...pew pew phasers instead of beams...warp that looks more like hyperspace...shipyards on the ground
It steals more ideas from other shows that using actual Star Trek ideas...Discovery is apparently a Tardis just as one example
There is probably TONS more I could add but it's 5am and I should be heading to bed.
In the last NGen film, which happened. In the comic book, he *Data* continued upgrades on the B4 form, to where he was normal as he was in his original Data body. He later became a captain of his own ship, with holo Datas as a crew.
And then, he commanded the Enterprise E at some point.
All of that was retconned, with the Picard series narration, that the transfer didn't take hold in the B4 form, and had a 99% failure rate, which means after Nemesis on the transfer, it didn't work, nullifying the comic book, and whatever reference material thereafter. Most of that was Beta canon anyway, not Alpha.
Now the Hokey explanation of 'Data' essence surviving in neuron chips (although the entire body was destroyed in the film) was invoked, that Data was talking with Maddox over a period of time, and sent 'materials' to help with his work on android creation.
This is an alternation in its entirely.
Addressing the Simulation term being used in STO--My opinion...It is being done that way, to keep separate the different versions on what Treks are displayed.
1. There is Prime Trek--Enterprise, TOS, NGen, DS9 & Voyager. *Lower Decks gets a mention because they near close to this timeline*
2. There is the Kelvin Time *film*, totally separate.
3. And now, we have an Alternate Trek of Discovery, followed by Picard.
Yes, there is utter confusion to how it looks, but STO was technically licensed for Scenario #1 first, but gradually the other 2 scenarios were just added piecemeals, as just add ons. 98% of all stories camne from scenario #1 and has stay that way currently.
The only way that changes, if the License holder *CBS/Paramount* says on the record that Scenario #1, is no longer the standard and adapts Scenario # 3, totally nullifying Scenario #1 outright.
Hence the term used 'Simulation' is to keep the seperation of what Trek era or versions is displayed before you. It is kinda sad it is like this...but in living memory, when was the last time anyone has witness such a license to be in 'turmoil' moment of this nature?
> (Quote)
>
> 1. There is Prime Trek--Enterprise, TOS, NGen, DS9 & Voyager. *Lower Decks gets a mention because they near close to this timeline*
>
> 2. There is the Kelvin Time *film*, totally separate.
>
> 3. And now, we have an Alternate Trek of Discovery, followed by Picard.
This is factually incorrect. Official sources have called this differently.
Now I know the total retcon of the og countdown is a headache for sto but it was never hard canon to begin with so tis what it is buts influence is surprisingly negligible.
Discovery did have to go out of it's way to undo some of it's own retcons but it did so through anson mount's boundless charm.
I'm not saying by any means that you must like the new productions to be considered a fan of course not but you do have to accept that they are part of one unbroken continuity. You can just choose not to absorb said media as I do with TOS but I still accept that it is part of the canon and managed to find my own fun doing the TOS content in sto. I'm sure having jg hertzler and Robert oreilly in the new Klingon civil war arc was done in much same way as not to alienate anyone who would be unhappy with only j'ula.
Saying that though my hopes are that sto will move onto something that is a little bit more original with its next arc. J'ula is not a very good character with this unearned redemption story which is so hollow and my 2256 captain would not just accept her as an ally not at all.
I di miss a lot of the old original missions, simple as they were they were fun stories and sometimes story is more important than gameplay particularly in an rpg if sto counts as an rpg that is. Shame theres no way to play the removed missions.
Again, incorrect. Both Discovery and Picard are Prime Timeline and 100% canon. The 'alternate timeline' thing is just something people say because they don't like Discovery and can't accept it. Regardless, it's prime and 100% canon.
We don't always agree, but we do here. That post was nothing but a temper tantrum from someone criticizing something they obviously have absolutely no understanding of. It's easy to just attack the writing because you don't get it, it's a familiar tactic with Discovery haters.
You saying so doesn't make it true.
The Prime Directive was thought up by TOS producer Gene L. Coon as a critical statement about US interference in Vietnam.
In essence a global superpower dictating how a lesser developed country should develop and form its society, of course benefiting US interest in return.
As it was contemporary statement it has to be viewed under such lens.
It makes no sense to remove the original context.
The purpose of he Prime Directive therefore was to prevent the Federation from enforcing its values and views on lesser developed worlds/species.
The “actual” Prime Directive has never been fully phrased or published. The audience only ever got to hear a basic summary by character on the shows.
This is like analysing the constitution of the USA without ever reading the actual constitution...
I don’t watch TRIBBLE. But that is just another point about TRIBBLE missing the point isn’t it?
If you are saying that CBS has final word, can't disagree since they OWE the IP, but they have no true love for Trek, as they just looking at it, to make money. There is no one in that corporation who outrightly is a fan of it. So, anything they say...is taking with a major dose of salt.
The comics/books are just outsourcers for potential ideas to push a narrative, they are not hard canon. And they weren't a true headache for this gaming company per se.
Discovery undoing their history of their Trek, debatable.
I would not have mind the productions at all, if they didn't degrade the past history so outright, so...in that vein, they are treated as a separate entity on their telling on what Trek looks like from their own point of view. And for the first TWO seasons, they concentrated on one main character, and not the rest of the crew...all previous Treks before 2009, dealt with a ensemble cast, with a lead, but the story revolved around everyone...not just one-person continuity.
They (the production) have soft booted this 3rd season to reflect that ensemble feel...they haven't surpassed my expectations as of late.
As for J'ula...the entire storyline has no true water, I am bugged to the fact, her technology of her 'time' was able to knock out ships systems in the 25th century. The sense of disbelief from the science side, does not mesh well with my senses.
All the old missions were indeed fun and interesting, because they filled in the gaps of not having Trek around when this game first started. But with all things, time and experience will filled that void...*tips hat to the company here* I built the PCs for this game and did it for no other...Some of those missions, were either degradable in visual quality or they didn't fit the overall structure of story narration in a general sense. I came in after the Beta run was done.
And sadly...Cryptic cannot go past into the Unknown areas of Trek, by contract...there are parts of the game, where the Deep Space borders exist, which has potential of exploration, meeting new races and potential conflicts. But nope...don't have access to travel there. The game is NOT an open-source material (like some rpgs tabletop games had that privilege in the past). And, I have read on this forum a while back, that the development side is reaching or has reached the end of ideas for storytelling...sad to hear, but it is expected giving the current atmosphere.
Lastly...I don't take well to revisionist history. Will not dismiss my own lifetime of experience...
Let it be said, we can agree to disagree on the notion on what is considered 'canon' percieved by many different people.
I stand corrected...thank you.