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Future Plotlines and Retcons as Canon Continues (spoilers for Picard and Discovery)

nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
Star Trek: Picard is on the cusp of entering the 25th Century and Discovery season 3 has made explicit references too so more fuel has been given for future plotlines but maybe the odd retcon too or at least some technobabble chicanery.
  • Barzan joining the Federation - this is explicitly a 25th Century event so seems like a good choice to me, a way of honouring DSC Season 3 and the character of Nhan.
  • Kaminar joining the Federation - no exact date was given but it would be a good foothold to introduce Kelpiens to STO.
  • Collapse of the Terran Empire - now this one is not so clear, it could be that Glasses Man was referring to the collapse of the first Terran Empire of the TOS era that we know about from DS9 but it could be that the Mirror Universe eventually lost any Imperial Terran superpower and would certainly be a plot point with a compelling storyline that would also keep STO aligned with those statements made and allows Leeta and Killy to come back. Maybe this could open the door for a Terran mini faction who seek asylum in the Prime Universe. It could also finally reveal who the Emperor is (Picard, Riker or Wesley are my guesses as god-like powers could be Q or Traveller based).
  • Time travel ban - following the temporal wars that we as players take part in all time travel technology is banned and destroyed. It could be that Daniels assists in this and asks for help as he does, this also opens doors for additional dialogue to TOS and DSC era characters as they will be locked into their new timeline now in a pretty ultimate you can never go home again way.
  • Hobus - this one's a bit odd as novels and comics, which are wobbly when it comes to their canon status (re: original Countdown) did state that it was the Romulan home star that went nova but secret plots are secretive. It could easily be the Eisn star was getting all uppity and they were very slowly evacuating Romulus. I mean, very slowly they knew 6 years prior to the nova event how long does it take when you have transporters and big old D'Deridex warbirds but I digress. But the Hobus star was detonated with its delightful subspace shockwaves which caught everyone off guard and because of Eisn's slowly going nova nobody bothered to think to look at little Hobus over there. Hey they could have even upset Eisn to make it start going nova as a deliberate diversion?
  • Data - the supposed Data cameo is too easy to ignore to be worth the effort, it's not the same as Icheb and Hugh's appearances. No references to Captain Data are made in any missions so...
  • Letters are everywhere - okay this one's probably just me but STO seemed a bit liberal with throwing letters into the registries of random ships (I know registries are basically nonsense, have been retconned [NCC-1305-E] or were never meant to be seen [NCC-221-B]) but in DSC we saw the Voyager-J and the Tikhov-M so maybe the Belfast-C and Pastak-G aren't as out there as I thought. But yeah that might just be me.
  • Romulan Free State - Sela took it over and remade it an empire when she installed herself as empress.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    Personally I really wish they would stop trying to force STO to fit into the new canon. They should just rip the bandaid off and say we're officially in an alternate universe.
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  • asgard47asgard47 Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    TRIBBLE and STP are not canon. They continously break established lore and are produced under the alternate Bad reboot license just like the JJ movies. You can find a very good explanation on Youtube by the channel Midnights edge, called something like the prime timeline deception. Almost all of STO refer to the older Trek shows produced under the original license. Ad that's why TRIBBLE and STP content feels and looks so out of place. Please don't retcon this garbage into STO. Stick to the original "Path to 2409" timeline and ignore Kurtzmentrek.

    Edit: If this garbage can not be ignored, deal with it in the same way STO deals with mirror universe stuff.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    asgard47 wrote: »
    You can find a very good explanation on Youtube by the channel Midnights edge
    Midnight's Edge is a known conspiracy theorist who just make things up without any proof.(Like his multiple claims Discovery has been canceled when it hasn't, and his claims Kurtzman has been fired when he hasn't)

    There is no alternate Bad Robot license, and Discovery and Picard are canon, and in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    "Conspiracy theorist" doesn't mean that the source is not credible, nor that their claims are without merit.

    Rumors and wishful thinking are not conspiracy theories in any case. Having watched the channel a few times, I recall them explicitly announcing their rumors/predictions/wishful thinking on a subject.

    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues (I've seen that clip of Empress Blinky, and that is hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen in Star Trek.)

    But they are canon. The issue comes in the fact that bad writing and continuity issues within canon can severely hurt an IP like nothing else.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues

    Fans don't get to decide what is and is not canon, that's entirely up to CBS alone.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues

    Fans don't get to decide what is and is not canon, that's entirely up to CBS alone.

    Correct, that doesn't mean anyone else has to like it.
    reyan01 wrote: »
    asgard47 wrote: »
    You can find a very good explanation on Youtube by the channel Midnights edge
    Midnight's Edge is a known conspiracy theorist who just make things up without any proof.(Like his multiple claims Discovery has been canceled when it hasn't, and his claims Kurtzman has been fired when he hasn't)

    There is no alternate Bad Robot license, and Discovery and Picard are canon, and in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    (I've seen that clip of Empress Blinky, and that is hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen in Star Trek.)

    Really? I mean yeah, it was far-fetched for sure... but even more stupid than Janeway and Paris 'evolving' into salamanders because they travelled too fast? Nah.

    Yes, give me Threshold any day. It was more believable (but yes it was stupid too.)
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    asgard47 wrote: »
    You can find a very good explanation on Youtube by the channel Midnights edge
    Midnight's Edge is a known conspiracy theorist who just make things up without any proof.(Like his multiple claims Discovery has been canceled when it hasn't, and his claims Kurtzman has been fired when he hasn't)

    There is no alternate Bad Robot license, and Discovery and Picard are canon, and in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    "Conspiracy theorist" doesn't mean that the source is not credible, nor that their claims are without merit.

    I mean, yeah actually it kind of does. Especially when they're repeatedly revealed to be baseless, sourceless and factually incorrect.

    But hey you know what, I get it. The reboot films are bad and I had the hardest time reconciling Discovery's first half of season 1. I really did. But seasons 2 and 3 have really made up for that in my opinion, and if you knew the level of vitriol I used to direct at Discovery's opening 7 or so episodes you'd know I'm not speaking lightly.

    Beyond isolated clips, season 3 is quite heavy on the easter eggs and is very much indulging being able to roll around in canon references it couldn't do before (prequels are wonky by nature). And Picard is just one big nostalgia trip designed to rose-ify even the rosiest of rose-tinted lenses.

    Personally I consider Picard to have the best season 1 of any Trek show. And I'm well aware my bias is my comfort blanket.

    But disliking something isn't really an excuse for baseless conspiracy theories and blatant lies designed to bait people into clicking on videos that make him money. He's just a con artist. I'm not saying you need to like every new Trek thing that gets put out but don't give creeps like that your time. You're better than that.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    according to what source? i don't remember any hard figures ever being stated as to how many ships the romulans deployed during the dominion war, and even if they had that many, they probably lost a good number of them because every time we saw romulan ships in any battle...they were usually getting torn apart rather easily​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • tmassxtmassx Member Posts: 826 Arc User
    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues (I've seen that clip of Empress Blinky, and that is hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen in Star Trek.)

    But they are canon. The issue comes in the fact that bad writing and continuity issues within canon can severely hurt an IP like nothing else.

    In my country (cca 20k votes), Picard has the second highest rating among Star trek series (only TNG is better), Discovery is higher than TOS, TAS, DS9, LD and equally with ENT. But for a group of orthodox trekkies, everything new is bad.
    And about the Empress, she can have any sort of augmentation, so she can disrupt a holograms. It is no more stupid than vulcan nerve pinch.
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    Not to mention, one of the biggest limiting factors in trying to evacuate the Romulans was the Romulans themselves, since they see everything as some sort of conspiracy.

    If Romulus had even remotly around the same number of people Earth does today, at around 8 billion people, it would take 571,428.5 Galaxy class starships to evacuate Romulus. The Federation fleet, at its highest before the Dominion War, only had 30,000 ships. Most of which weren't Galaxy class ships. The Romulans had less ship in general, due to being much smaller, and both the Federation and Romulans lost a lot of their fleet during the Dominion War.

    Now we also have to consider that not only Romulus was under threat, but so was Remus, as well as many colony worlds in the vicinity. We are talking about something that would realistically have taken a decade to actually do.

    Also, there's no way a D'deridex could hold 100,000 people, much less two or three hundred thousand.

    That actually makes a lot of sense when it's laid out that like that. Especially if the event itself was a surprise that would catch their efforts off guard.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    tmassx wrote: »
    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues (I've seen that clip of Empress Blinky, and that is hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen in Star Trek.)

    But they are canon. The issue comes in the fact that bad writing and continuity issues within canon can severely hurt an IP like nothing else.

    In my country (cca 20k votes), Picard has the second highest rating among Star trek series (only TNG is better), Discovery is higher than TOS, TAS, DS9, LD and equally with ENT. But for a group of orthodox trekkies, everything new is bad.
    And about the Empress, she can have any sort of augmentation, so she can disrupt a holograms. It is no more stupid than vulcan nerve pinch.

    As a lifelong 46 year old trekkie, having watched everything, I love them all and got round the fact prior series to TOS 'had better tech' because it was understandable.

    I was bemused with the blinking, unless the Empress had inside knowledge of how FED/Terran holograms worked.

    As for the Vulcan nerve pinch.....based off a martial arts technique that attacks the Vagus nerve. If you can overload that nerve, you can render someone unconcious with it, but it's 'how' you do it, especially as one of it's primary functions is it regulates the heart. Trust me, I've 30 years of martial arts experience and I study the body alot in Physiology, it's not 'stupid'. :lol:
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    Don't forget the Lower Decks stuff. Looks like the Pakled joining the Federation didn't happen quite as nicely as STO character builder options might have suggest to us.

    The end of the MIrror Universe Empire... Well, that really already happened in canon, Star trek's excuse to bring it back really felt flimsy and kinda lame. But it's very integrated in STO's plot lines now, so I am not sure what to do about it, except perhaps bring the Mirror Universe story to a close at some point.
    asgard47 wrote: »
    You can find a very good explanation on Youtube by the channel Midnights edge
    Midnight's Edge is a known conspiracy theorist who just make things up without any proof.(Like his multiple claims Discovery has been canceled when it hasn't, and his claims Kurtzman has been fired when he hasn't)

    There is no alternate Bad Robot license, and Discovery and Picard are canon, and in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    "Conspiracy theorist" doesn't mean that the source is not credible, nor that their claims are without merit.
    Okay, than let's clarify: He is not credible, his claims are without merit. He makes up stuff that is wrong, and you can actually find out that it's wrong by just looking at what is going on with the shows that are being made, and how it is used for works licensed by the franchise holder. You need to stop listening to unsubstantiated TRIBBLE on you tube just because it makes you feel smart or help lessen the pain that your once-favorite franchise isn't moving the direction you would prefer it go.
    I hope this clears up things for you.

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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Not to mention, one of the biggest limiting factors in trying to evacuate the Romulans was the Romulans themselves, since they see everything as some sort of conspiracy.

    If Romulus had even remotly around the same number of people Earth does today, at around 8 billion people, it would take 571,428.5 Galaxy class starships to evacuate Romulus. The Federation fleet, at its highest before the Dominion War, only had 30,000 ships. Most of which weren't Galaxy class ships. The Romulans had less ship in general, due to being much smaller, and both the Federation and Romulans lost a lot of their fleet during the Dominion War.

    Now we also have to consider that not only Romulus was under threat, but so was Remus, as well as many colony worlds in the vicinity. We are talking about something that would realistically have taken a decade to actually do.

    Also, there's no way a D'deridex could hold 100,000 people, much less two or three hundred thousand.

    That actually makes a lot of sense when it's laid out that like that. Especially if the event itself was a surprise that would catch their efforts off guard.
    The other factor to remember is - after those trips, you added 9 billion inhabitants to a planet. no matter how you spread it, that's lot of people. They all need water, food, medicine, shelter...

    So 15,000 aboard Galaxy Class ships is cool. But you also need that infrastructure. I seem to remember catching the (class?) name of the transport vessels they built on Mars, and I believe it sounded or was described as some colony vessels. That makes a lot of sense, such a ship would certainly have capabilities to also create the necessary infrastructure for people to survive. That's what they are for. But you still need a lot of them, because they are probably meant for one-time use usually.
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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    Don't forget the Lower Decks stuff. Looks like the Pakled joining the Federation didn't happen quite as nicely as STO character builder options might have suggest to us.

    The end of the MIrror Universe Empire... Well, that really already happened in canon, Star trek's excuse to bring it back really felt flimsy and kinda lame. But it's very integrated in STO's plot lines now, so I am not sure what to do about it, except perhaps bring the Mirror Universe story to a close at some point.
    asgard47 wrote: »
    You can find a very good explanation on Youtube by the channel Midnights edge
    Midnight's Edge is a known conspiracy theorist who just make things up without any proof.(Like his multiple claims Discovery has been canceled when it hasn't, and his claims Kurtzman has been fired when he hasn't)

    There is no alternate Bad Robot license, and Discovery and Picard are canon, and in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    "Conspiracy theorist" doesn't mean that the source is not credible, nor that their claims are without merit.
    Okay, than let's clarify: He is not credible, his claims are without merit. He makes up stuff that is wrong, and you can actually find out that it's wrong by just looking at what is going on with the shows that are being made, and how it is used for works licensed by the franchise holder. You need to stop listening to unsubstantiated TRIBBLE on you tube just because it makes you feel smart or help lessen the pain that your once-favorite franchise isn't moving the direction you would prefer it go.
    I hope this clears up things for you.

    I concur. I watched a few of this 'very angry' guy's videos, and he's as guilty of 'gatekeeping' as a good number of folk.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • tigerariestigeraries Member Posts: 3,492 Arc User
    asgard47 wrote: »
    You can find a very good explanation on Youtube by the channel Midnights edge
    Midnight's Edge is a known conspiracy theorist who just make things up without any proof.(Like his multiple claims Discovery has been canceled when it hasn't, and his claims Kurtzman has been fired when he hasn't)

    There is no alternate Bad Robot license, and Discovery and Picard are canon, and in the same timeline as ENT, TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, and VOY.

    calling someone conspiracy theorists is just a way to ignore someone's opinion/story. he gets his scoops from inside sources... but yeah things change so sometimes things dont go the way its get reported.

    Good point is Doomcock. He was spot on, on all his leaks on Star Wars, folks came out and publicly denied all his scoops and guess what... movie comes out and he was 100% right.

    Folks may not like how people dont like the new stuff... but folks are entitled to their tastes.

    Saying they are in the same timeline is garbage cause you can look at the visual stylings as different. Even when DS9 went back to Original Series... they made it all look the same.

    Disc takes after the JJ movie look and style... that is different and is a reboot. Prime timeline is different than Original Star Trek. Your going into Multiverse... You have aliens serving on board a star ship with humans... they is NOT normal in the original series. They didnt do that till Next Gen and even then it's a few here and there. Not till Titan with Riker did they have a diverse crew.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    Rather anyone likes it or not.. Discovery and everything on it is canon. It’s not an alternate universe and it’s not fan fiction.

    Does that upset you? Who cares?.. get over it.

    It's canon.. STO follows canon.. so yes, the OP has some nice ideas for things to be added into the story line as we progress. If you want to go cry that you don't like the new shows or think Kurtzman is the devil, go cry in Ten Forward where you can be easily ignored.
    Post edited by seaofsorrows on
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • smokebaileysmokebailey Member Posts: 4,659 Arc User
    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues

    Fans don't get to decide what is and is not canon, that's entirely up to CBS alone.

    And their stuff SUCKS, now.
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues

    Fans don't get to decide what is and is not canon, that's entirely up to CBS alone.

    And their stuff SUCKS, now.

    https://youtu.be/pWdd6_ZxX8c
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues

    Fans don't get to decide what is and is not canon, that's entirely up to CBS alone.

    Except Fox didn't mention canon, but rather the feel of the story universe, continuity, and writing quality, none of which are precisely "canon" though they are closely related. Canon has more to do with IP and which works the IP holder considers as belonging to the setting, and while they are in their rights to ignore continuity on a "legal" level all that does is make the setting less coherent and therefore less likely for people to invest much in because they know that in it nothing really matters outside of the current storyline.


    according to what source? i don't remember any hard figures ever being stated as to how many ships the romulans deployed during the dominion war, and even if they had that many, they probably lost a good number of them because every time we saw romulan ships in any battle...they were usually getting torn apart rather easily​​
    Not to mention, one of the biggest limiting factors in trying to evacuate the Romulans was the Romulans themselves, since they see everything as some sort of conspiracy.
    No kidding. A galaxy-class starship can comfortably transport something like 15,000 people (with a crew of only ~1000 o.O ) without any major changes to quarters. In an emergency, it could probably transport 3 or 4 times that amount without issue and maybe double or triple that again for brief periods of time if the need was great enough (see: Nimitz class aircraft carrier crew size for a comparison).

    A single D'Deridex has to be able to transport in the area of two or three hundred thousand Romulans when faced with planetary destruction. And Romulus was undoubtedly patrolled by the empire's biggest, baddest, and largest fleet(s). If they had time to consult the Vulcans, come up with a plan, build a ship, fly it to another solar system...they had plenty of time to evacuate their entire world. They comfortably contributed ~7000 ships to the Dominion war efforts.
    If a Galaxy has a typical crew of 1,000, with the ability to hold 15,000 max. Each Galaxy class could transport 14,000 people.

    If Romulus had even remotly around the same number of people Earth does today, at around 8 billion people, it would take 571,428.5 Galaxy class starships to evacuate Romulus. The Federation fleet, at its highest before the Dominion War, only had 30,000 ships. Most of which weren't Galaxy class ships. The Romulans had less ship in general, due to being much smaller, and both the Federation and Romulans lost a lot of their fleet during the Dominion War.

    Now we also have to consider that not only Romulus was under threat, but so was Remus, as well as many colony worlds in the vicinity. We are talking about something that would realistically have taken a decade to actually do.

    Also, there's no way a D'deridex could hold 100,000 people, much less two or three hundred thousand.

    According to dialog the Enterprise with its full crew and dependents on board had enough spare life support capacity to evacuate the colony of 15,000 they were sent to rescue in one lift. They never actually gave a hard upper limit though it probably isn't much more than that either considering sites like Memory Alpha quote it as the maximum.

    Another thing to consider is that 35% of the saucer (including the entirety of deck 8) was unfinished space, set aside for special missions or for the crew to expand into if the ship was caught in a situation like Voyager, or like two of the Enterprises found themselves in but managed to get back from the same way they got out there in the first place (three if you count the alternate NX commanded by Lorian though presumably it never made it home).

    Also, dialog in TNG and possibly other series implies that even Earth doesn't have the high population that the real Earth has now, and it was a capital world. Likewise, the little bits of Romulus that have been shown, including the capital city itself, show that the planet is probably not densely populated. In fact some of their "cities" seem to be hardly more than large towns by today's standards though that impression could be misleading.

    And given that Remus was described in Nemesis as essentially a sparsely inhabited hellhole of a world (which seems to be fairly typical of dilithium containing planets though some exceptions like Troyius exist) I suspect that there would not be an overwhelming number there to evacuate (though the Romulans would probably insist on being evacuated first). Anyway, the two planets populations together are probably somewhat less the Earth has today though that is a guess.

    First Contact showed that Earth was only a few hours away from the neutral zone for a Galaxy class ship (though that could have been due to some kind of warp superhighway effect like the Star Wars trade routes), and Romulus according to the map in PIC is much closer to the neutral zone than Earth is. And even if it is a Cochrane factor corridor of some kind that makes Earth such a quick trip it would be easy to load the people on other, slower transports to take them elsewhere (probably a safe part of the RSE territory once out of the danger zone.

    Even if they could just scrape together ten Galaxy class (obviously there are quite a few considering all the times Enterprise-D met up with others of the class, and they sent five in troop carrier mode to Chin'toka which they probably would not have if they were as rare as first season made them out to be, that would 150,000 rescued per trip and possibly two trips per day and that adds up considering they had to have had months at the very least to build the Mars fleet. In fact the Bolian homeworld is not far from the neutral zone on an almost direct line between Earth and Romulus so they could drop off some there and make it back for another load even quicker (unless the Bolian homeworld was in danger too because of its proximity).

    They could probably get dozens at the very least and perhaps hundreds of ships in the mothball yards activated and headed on their way to help the evacuation in the time it would take to convince the Romulans they could use the help. The ships being built at Mars would undoubtedly be useful in the long run but they are unlikely to be quite as vital as PIC depicts.
  • tmassxtmassx Member Posts: 826 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »
    As for the Vulcan nerve pinch.....based off a martial arts technique that attacks the Vagus nerve. If you can overload that nerve, you can render someone unconcious with it, but it's 'how' you do it, especially as one of it's primary functions is it regulates the heart. Trust me, I've 30 years of martial arts experience and I study the body alot in Physiology, it's not 'stupid'. :lol:

    Vulcan nerve pinch .. But even with the best execution (the target must not move) , it's as if someone has punched you, it certainly doesn't work the way the Vulcans do. Probably the use of some psychic powers, or rather they didn't explain it at all, it is superpower of some ST characters, Archer, Picard, Data, Odo, Burnham and Seven, the funny thing is, sometimes the characters can do it, sometimes they can't.
  • tmassxtmassx Member Posts: 826 Arc User
    Btw my friends, when we are at what is a canon, in PIC, just in first episode, Picard said during the interview, Romulus had 900 milions inhabitants. Before it seems too few to someone, I'll remind him, at the time the Roman Empire collapsed on Earth, there could have been 100 million people. The Romulans started in the same time with tens of thousands.
  • lordmerc22lordmerc22 Member Posts: 776 Arc User
    Personally I find Q one of the most stupid presence in Star Trek and very unfitting. What is he supposed to be? The grand god in a futuristic show?(His persona actually reminds Dionysus, the ancient greek god of festivities and madness) A power hocus pocus Wizard in a world of mostly scientific and technological progress? Maybe he would had fitted Star Wars where the force is a form of magic but his presence seems only weird in Star Trek.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    tmassx wrote: »
    Btw my friends, when we are at what is a canon, in PIC, just in first episode, Picard said during the interview, Romulus had 900 milions inhabitants. Before it seems too few to someone, I'll remind him, at the time the Roman Empire collapsed on Earth, there could have been 100 million people. The Romulans started in the same time with tens of thousands.

    900 million is not unreasonable considering what was shown of the planet, in fact, it may even be a bit high. It is not like all Romulans lived on Romulus, they had a rather sizable empire so they were obviously spread out quite a bit. And since TNG established that Vulcan population did not grow very fast it is safe to assume that the same holds true for the Romulans.

    Even after centuries, most of their worlds, including the capital, probably have little more than it takes to keep the industry and economy running as people are syphoned off the longer settled worlds to claim and hold down the frontier worlds, and to crew the ships that keep the empire going and safe.
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    They dont say 900 million is the total population, that's just the number that could be evacuated by 10,000 ferries. Be it a total estimate or per round trip. It is later stated that billions of lives were in danger due to the supernova. And that's just it going off of the predicted Eisn normalnova not the Hobus supersupernova which would mean billions were in the Romulan home system.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    tmassx wrote: »
    There is good reason people don't want/like the idea that ST:P and ST:D are canon, because they both feel like a major departure from the Trek we knew, so much so that they don't at all feel like they are part of the same universe, and that is before any continuity and bad writing issues (I've seen that clip of Empress Blinky, and that is hands down the stupidest thing I've ever seen in Star Trek.)

    But they are canon. The issue comes in the fact that bad writing and continuity issues within canon can severely hurt an IP like nothing else.

    In my country (cca 20k votes), Picard has the second highest rating among Star trek series (only TNG is better), Discovery is higher than TOS, TAS, DS9, LD and equally with ENT. But for a group of orthodox trekkies, everything new is bad.
    And about the Empress, she can have any sort of augmentation, so she can disrupt a holograms. It is no more stupid than vulcan nerve pinch.

    (Emphasis mine.)

    Well, no.

    Those who complain about the new series aren't complaining merely because it's new.

    Drug abuse, canon violations, major changes to important characters (both visually as well as to their, well, characters and often just to please a very specific part of the fanbase), stories that defy basic astronomical knowledge (seeing red lights that are very far apart at the same time), unlikable characters, different tones and 'atmosphere', overly relying on special effects and Dutch angles, combining those with so much action so that viewers can often not discern what is going on, effects so cheap it's sad (Inquiry), usage of bad language and using it so often that it loses any impact it might have...

    There is plenty to dislike in the new series and none of these things have anything to do with those series being 'new'. While some of these things are arguably subjective, criticism is just as often well-founded. Regardless, literally no one I've heard or read, argued that the new series are bad just because they're new.

    Also, it's not just one thing, it's the combination of so many things and ways in which the new series depart from the other series that are causing some people to be annoyed.



    It's easy to just pretend that those people are just some fools who are stuck in the past, people who would dislike anything that's new merely because it's new. It's also grossly unfair however and ignorant. Since you'd have to ignore that there is plenty of substantive criticism.
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