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We need a system to deal with people who join a queue and then leave it deliberately

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  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    xastirx wrote: »
    That's all well and fine, but what about those who have to leave because life intervened. I've been called into work, myself, among other things. Someone who gets called away from their computer by a case of real life intervention should not get put into that bad player group.

    Additionally there are those to whom that sort of thing happens a lot. When i worked in retail i only really got maybe 1 out of every 10 days off without getting called into work. There were plenty of people who honestly thought i was doing that to ruin it for people.
    These close the game down, no?
    Which could be seen as crashing.
    to play devils advocate, you know, darn it i forgot i was just loading out a new ship to grind the traits, and I don't have any commands in the taskbar. so I either AFK and get that done or I leave the TFO and eat the leaver penalty... OR I'm set to run a space TFO, I have pilot and temporal, wand I end up in a ground TFO, or I simply don't want to play the TFO.. again, I'm leaving. bring the leaver penalty. it sucks for you, the people left, but when it comes down to it, I'm here for my fun, not yours.
    True.
    Part of the fun is getting set up BEFORE you join.
    Simple logics?
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,398 Arc User
    > @kiksken said:
    > (Quote)
    > These close the game down, no?
    > Which could be seen as crashing.
    > (Quote)
    > True.
    > Part of the fun is getting set up BEFORE you join.
    > Simple logics?

    Well the thing with "random" is that you don't know what you'll get so the only way to prepare is to have jack of all traits, master of none build, while personally I don't mind having such a build some people want to have optimal build for the content and there is nothing wrong with that.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,950 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    I don't know, there's times when this happens and someone new immediately gets added during the briefing.
  • captainwellscaptainwells Member Posts: 718 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    It must be said that something which I frequently encounter with this sometimes broken game, and before the panties of a few get bunched up, is when I've just begun to load into a queue only to be bounced out and back to the main screen.

    Usually I quickly reload and am taken back to the same type of queue, but whether it's the one that I was first being routed to or another is anyones guess? And the subsequent penalty for abandoning that queue, when it takes me a couple of tries to get back in, is hardly my fault now, is it?
  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    > @kiksken said:
    > (Quote)
    > These close the game down, no?
    > Which could be seen as crashing.
    > (Quote)
    > True.
    > Part of the fun is getting set up BEFORE you join.
    > Simple logics?

    Well the thing with "random" is that you don't know what you'll get so the only way to prepare is to have jack of all traits, master of none build, while personally I don't mind having such a build some people want to have optimal build for the content and there is nothing wrong with that.
    Ah, yes.
    Do what I do, have an all-rounder ship for these.
    Sure, it would not be that good as if you are specific build, but it would not be horrible either, I guess?
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,633 Community Moderator
    I will have to side with quest and others advising caution. ANY system that gets implimented must consider any abuse from Trolls wanting to have their "fun" at the expense of others.
    I wanna say that there's a saying about nothing being foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool, or something along those lines.
    Trolls will find a way to abuse the system.

    Also... how can a lv 1goldseller join a TFO? I thought there was at least a minimum level requirement. I know they've been opening up TFOs as you level, but as far as I'm aware the lowest one is the old Borg TFOs, but that's still several missions in...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    Foolproof system?
    It is human made, therefore absolutely flawed.
    How bad, that I cannot say, but flawed it will be...

    Still, a very weakly flawed system in these matters still outweigh no system at all, I think?
    There just is too much abuse right now.
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    It must be said that something which I frequently encounter with this sometimes broken game, and before the panties of a few get bunched up, is when I've just begun to load into a queue only to be bounced out and back to the main screen.

    Usually I quickly reload and am taken back to the same type of queue, but whether it's the one that I was first being routed to or another is anyones guess? And the subsequent penalty for abandoning that queue, when it takes me a couple of tries to get back in, is hardly my fault now, is it?

    This one is kind of a headscratcher. I mean the only way I know for this to happen is if you use safe login. When this happens to me, the map transfer disconnect, I choose normal login and it drops me right back into the the TFO. No having to queue again for the TFO, just blip, right back into it.

    So something weird maybe going on here if you aren't getting the Normal/Safe login popup when you click play on the character that disconnected.
    Mm5NeXy.gif
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,663 Arc User
    to play devils advocate, you know, darn it i forgot i was just loading out a new ship to grind the traits, and I don't have any commands in the taskbar. so I either AFK and get that done or I leave the TFO and eat the leaver penalty... OR I'm set to run a space TFO, I have pilot and temporal, wand I end up in a ground TFO, or I simply don't want to play the TFO.. again, I'm leaving. bring the leaver penalty. it sucks for you, the people left, but when it comes down to it, I'm here for my fun, not yours.

    I actually had this happen once, awhile back, so I don't remember which it was. I did AFK for just a min to load up my most-used powers and then joined the fun and did enough damage/whatever to not get an AFK penalty.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • trillbuffettrillbuffet Member Posts: 858 Arc User
    Okay first thing is we need specialization customization we can have for specific TFO's so that you don't lose that actual random function of it all. So if I am doing Gravity kills I want Pilot and intel because I know for that is what is going to carry a team or allow me to solo it for when people all leave and I don't want to take a leaver penalty. Takes a little bit longer than it should but if I happen to be in a bop its pretty simple.

    Then for other situations you don't want to load in ground map with pilot spec up or commando in space. Those two are really great specs but absolutely useless if you blindly go into TFO's where nothing with those specs is benefiting you.

    Then there is ground combat which I am not a diabolical genius or extremely intelligent person but I do understand how simple ground combat is and cannot fathom why people would leave those. They are essentially giving you even more bonus marks/dilithium to play them and they've got much better over time along with kit modules. Its simple if your target is facing you then you both only do normal damage but if you shoot them while they are not facing you that is what is called flanking damage. Then the difference in classes is that tactical is primarily a weapons specialist as their kits mostly do damage increase, crit severity, flanking, and damage resist debuffs. For the most part their abilities revolve around the weapons or projectiles and npcs like security team. So the Kperf kit performance is a factor but less of a factor compared to your weapon damage. Then your engineering and science have limited crit severity increases but mostly involve control and Kit performance abilities. Plus by default the aim mechanic is 30% damage increase and you will rarely see people using it or using it properly.

    So allow for customization please Cryptic so that we can have the right tools for the job when we blindly fill your queues for you.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,760 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    Quite often I get connection drops on map changes, so I often arrive near the end of the timer (or even past that) and all too often end up with things missing, like batteries, a weapon or two, and rarely even skill tray items and have to quickly stuff it all back in place as much as possible before the start timer ends. Often I cannot do that in time and have to run with the ship only partially functional.

    That is quite a bit like the situation people with specialized ships run into in RTFOs when they get dropped into a scenario where they are a poor fit (like a megawell ship suddenly confronted with a Tzenkethi TFO) so they cannot use some of their main skills and techniques. Instead of leaving in a huff because they are not optimized, it can be fun to take on the challenge instead of essentially ignoring everyone else and more and or less soloing (especially in a PUG where you don't know what crazy things the others may do). It helps keep things fresh.
  • xastirxxastirx Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I will have to side with quest and others advising caution. ANY system that gets implimented must consider any abuse from Trolls wanting to have their "fun" at the expense of others.
    I wanna say that there's a saying about nothing being foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool, or something along those lines.
    Trolls will find a way to abuse the system.

    Also... how can a lv 1goldseller join a TFO? I thought there was at least a minimum level requirement. I know they've been opening up TFOs as you level, but as far as I'm aware the lowest one is the old Borg TFOs, but that's still several missions in...

    They removed the level requirement. Now they are mission gated. Also, said missions no longer have level restrictions. Thus what a gold farmer does is this. They go into the quest log and skip over all the missions that they can. Then they take the ones about partcipating in a TFO. Once that mission is taken all associated TFO's are unlocked. This only applies though to Federation and Federation allied romulans. Jem Hadar dont count here as they are level 60 and have all battlezones and TFO's unlocked at the start. Klingon characters for what ever reason still have some of the old gates in place.
  • xastirxxastirx Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    I know that there is an expansive list of reasons for people to quit. But keep in mind: the idea is not to punish those who leave, since clearly they are fine with taking a character specific ban. The idea is to assist those who are on the other end of the equation. Those who have to finish short handed. Yes, there are automatic systems in place that kick in during the briefing phase and shortly after. But what about when its 10 minutes in to gravity kills and its 3 players against 25 battleships, no one can get particles to the Jupiter because the other two cant draw enough aggro to keep the third person from getting fried, and the cruisers are destroying the particles. Should they not be able to manually call for help before it gets to that point? I mean not implementing something like that seems like punishing those who stay on mission because the ones who left had to go to work early, or had an emergency to deal with, or they were just there to leave in the first place.

    Ok, so some of those people are there for their own fun. That means sometimes they leave because they forgot to set up their tray on a new ship. Or sometimes leaving IS the fun for them. Okay, then explain to me why those who stay in the TFO should be made to have less fun by having to pick up the slack left by those who left. Explain to me why because you got called into work early, that the other 4 should have to work harder to win, instead of being able to effectively say "have fun at work, its cool, we can call someone to take your spot".

    And better still, explain to me why after the point where someone would normally get pulled to fill in automatically, and the two players go LOL and warp/beam out, the other 3 should have to face an entire TFO short handed instead of being able to call in others who are waiting patiently to do the same mission?

    That is the question I am hoping can be answered. That is the problem I am looking to solve. I know there are no perfect solutions. But, something that is workable is better than nothing.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    xastirx wrote: »
    I know that there is an expansive list of reasons for people to quit. But keep in mind: the idea is not to punish those who leave, since clearly they are fine with taking a character specific ban. The idea is to assist those who are on the other end of the equation. Those who have to finish short handed. Yes, there are automatic systems in place that kick in during the briefing phase and shortly after. But what about when its 10 minutes in to gravity kills and its 3 players against 25 battleships, no one can get particles to the Jupiter because the other two cant draw enough aggro to keep the third person from getting fried, and the cruisers are destroying the particles. Should they not be able to manually call for help before it gets to that point? I mean not implementing something like that seems like punishing those who stay on mission because the ones who left had to go to work early, or had an emergency to deal with, or they were just there to leave in the first place.

    Ok, so some of those people are there for their own fun. That means sometimes they leave because they forgot to set up their tray on a new ship. Or sometimes leaving IS the fun for them. Okay, then explain to me why those who stay in the TFO should be made to have less fun by having to pick up the slack left by those who left. Explain to me why because you got called into work early, that the other 4 should have to work harder to win, instead of being able to effectively say "have fun at work, its cool, we can call someone to take your spot".

    And better still, explain to me why after the point where someone would normally get pulled to fill in automatically, and the two players go LOL and warp/beam out, the other 3 should have to face an entire TFO short handed instead of being able to call in others who are waiting patiently to do the same mission?

    That is the question I am hoping can be answered. That is the problem I am looking to solve. I know there are no perfect solutions. But, something that is workable is better than nothing.

    however, in this case, and given your input above, im thinking what is working now IS the better than nothing.
    meh

  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    Okay first thing is we need specialization customization
    I think, an "easy" way would be by having say 5 Trays, and 5 Setups preinstalled.
    Entering random 1, for instance, would require you to take tray 4, this will auto-load the whole setup you gave it, loaded in a single moment.
    Later, entering random 2, for instance, asks for tray 2, activating this would load the according setup of your ship, instantly.

    Much like FPS games have a secondary loadout.
    But then in STO, the ships and skills, boff settings, weapons, armour, ...
    No more need for 20 minutes of sorting all out, and having finally set up, noting the event is over.
    Enter, hit the needed bar, bam! Reddy. (I knwo, a tyop. :P)
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    kiksken wrote: »
    Okay first thing is we need specialization customization
    I think, an "easy" way would be by having say 5 Trays, and 5 Setups preinstalled.
    Entering random 1, for instance, would require you to take tray 4, this will auto-load the whole setup you gave it, loaded in a single moment.
    Later, entering random 2, for instance, asks for tray 2, activating this would load the according setup of your ship, instantly.

    Much like FPS games have a secondary loadout.
    But then in STO, the ships and skills, boff settings, weapons, armour, ...
    No more need for 20 minutes of sorting all out, and having finally set up, noting the event is over.
    Enter, hit the needed bar, bam! Reddy. (I knwo, a tyop. :P)

    you can save two setups (loadouts) on your ship already and you can buy more. so this is already in place.
    meh

  • smi3thsmi3th Member Posts: 203 Arc User
    A simple fix would be to grant increased rewards to the remaining players if someone leaves the TFO. Like dividing the total rewards among whatever players are there at the end. So if one player drops out everyone gets +25% more stuff.

    Considering that a lot of the rewards are based on optional objectives that get harder when someone leaves, this compensates players for the added difficulty.

    The only time I've dropped out of a TFO was when my internet connection went down. It doesn't happen that often, but often enough that it would be an issue if this marked me as some kind of miscreant. I know there is no way for Cryptic to know whether I disconnected deliberately or by accident.
  • xastirxxastirx Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    you can save two setups (loadouts) on your ship already and you can buy more. so this is already in place.

    But the downside is that when you switch loadouts, the one being switched away from gets transferred to your inventory. On toons that have not had their inventory space upgraded, and they are changing the loadout on a Tier 6 fleet battle cruiser, like the Gagarin, that is 27 inventory slots that are about to get filled with the old build being switched away from. What would really enhance that system, though it is not the topic of this thread, would be a sort of build storage system. Sort of like Drydock for Build items.

  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    xastirx wrote: »
    you can save two setups (loadouts) on your ship already and you can buy more. so this is already in place.

    But the downside is that when you switch loadouts, the one being switched away from gets transferred to your inventory. On toons that have not had their inventory space upgraded, and they are changing the loadout on a Tier 6 fleet battle cruiser, like the Gagarin, that is 27 inventory slots that are about to get filled with the old build being switched away from. What would really enhance that system, though it is not the topic of this thread, would be a sort of build storage system. Sort of like Drydock for Build items.
    This.
    Idea is to have a STATIC loadout system, that KEEPS all in place.
    Sorry, if I was not that clear.
    EDIT:
    Also... 2 slots just does not cut it, does it?
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,783 Arc User
    They HAVE a system - When someone leaves early, they cannot do any other TFOs for 30 minutes on that character. <--- That's te penalty Cryptic decided on. If that's not enough to force players to deal with some of the crappier and poorly designed and implemented TFOs that other masochists want to play, that's again Cryptic's problem. ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,318 Arc User
    xastirx wrote: »
    you can save two setups (loadouts) on your ship already and you can buy more. so this is already in place.

    But the downside is that when you switch loadouts, the one being switched away from gets transferred to your inventory. On toons that have not had their inventory space upgraded, and they are changing the loadout on a Tier 6 fleet battle cruiser, like the Gagarin, that is 27 inventory slots that are about to get filled with the old build being switched away from. What would really enhance that system, though it is not the topic of this thread, would be a sort of build storage system. Sort of like Drydock for Build items.

    i can see why this would be an issue then. but it begs the question, why do you not have enough inv slots available if this is a known response to switching load outs? im just asking for the hell of it, not trying to incite anger. im with you really on your reply, but just had to ask. :)
    meh

  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,663 Arc User
    Perhaps it's time for an inventory tab where loadout stuff goes.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    i can see why this would be an issue then. but it begs the question, why do you not have enough inv slots available if this is a known response to switching load outs? im just asking for the hell of it, not trying to incite anger. im with you really on your reply, but just had to ask. :)
    echatty wrote: »
    Perhaps it's time for an inventory tab where loadout stuff goes.
    Well, hence my suggestion: static loadouts.
    This way, nothing will be removed, just switched out from inactive to active, and vica versa, as per the need.
    Or taste.
    No more inventory slots needed this way, and super simple swaps each time.
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
  • xastirxxastirx Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited August 2020
    This.
    Idea is to have a STATIC loadout system, that KEEPS all in place.
    Sorry, if I was not that clear.
    EDIT:
    Also... 2 slots just does not cut it, does it?

    It cuts it like a dull, cold Dakh'Tagh through carbon neutronium.


  • xastirxxastirx Member Posts: 62 Arc User

    i can see why this would be an issue then. but it begs the question, why do you not have enough inv slots available if this is a known response to switching load outs? im just asking for the hell of it, not trying to incite anger. im with you really on your reply, but just had to ask. :)

    Well, many of my characters have the default number of inventoy slots for silver accounts. Transferring an entire loadout into inventory when switching would fill up almost half of it on those toons.

  • kikskenkiksken Member Posts: 664 Arc User
    xastirx wrote: »

    i can see why this would be an issue then. but it begs the question, why do you not have enough inv slots available if this is a known response to switching load outs? im just asking for the hell of it, not trying to incite anger. im with you really on your reply, but just had to ask. :)

    Well, many of my characters have the default number of inventoy slots for silver accounts. Transferring an entire loadout into inventory when switching would fill up almost half of it on those toons.
    What do you think about "my" idea?
    My in between quote marks, as it has done so many a time before...
    Klingons don't get drunk.
    They just get less sober.
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